The best way to look at the Slavic expansion of the 6th and 7th century is to look at deeper clades of certain haplogroups dominated among South and North Slavs to possibly determine this migration.Best way to search for this migration is the Balkans,we have written sources mostly from there.As well we can separate better the more "Slavic" haplogroups from "native",most people think that I2a din is exlusively Slavic as well some clades of R1a.
Yesterday i tried to separate all downstream of I-CTS10228 Dinaric,because many people try to lump as entire haplogroup was spreading by migrating Slavs of the 6th and 7th century.
I-S17250 found among South,North Slavs and their neighbors,could be a marker of this expansion?
Ken Nordtvedt has split Dinaric into Din-N and Din-S. Din-N is older than Din-S. N=north of the Danube and S=south of the Danube River. DYS448 = 19 for S and 20 for N.
In western part of the Balkans the prevalent is the co called Dinaric south cluster with ratio of roughly 70%-south and 30% north.A SNP which defines the Dinaric-South cluster has been identified. It is PH908,The more specific I-S17250 group includes all Dinaric-South men but it also includes some Dinaric-North men.In Eastern Balkans Dinaric north is prevalent for example in Bulgaria 75% belong to Dinaric north,the largest haplotype group among Bulgarians is Dinaric-North (75%), which is prevalent among all North Slavs and may suggest a recent migration north of the Danube river. Anyway, any evidence for such migration is yet not observed in connection to modern populations as more than 90% of the traced Dinaric-North Bulgarian haplotypes belong to the SNP group Z17855, being the prevailing clade in Bulgarians, somehow significant in the western Balkans and rare elsewhere observed.These SNP groups separated before the Slavic expansion in the Balkans.According to large datasets the dominant Bulgarian Z17855 SNP is even absent in north Slavic DNA projects-source genetics of Bulgarian people.
I-Y4460 found among North Slavs,Balts,Finns etc,not a marker of Slavic expansion to the Balkans.
I-Z17855 found among South,North Slavs and their neighbors,could be marker of Slavic expansion but according to Bulgarian genetic research is almost absent in north Slavic countries,any thoughts?
I-A2512 found among some Greeks and some further subclades of it among Jewish diaspora,most probably not a marker of Slavic expansion since this clade has TMRCA OF 2100 years and is found among Greeks.
Bottom line the best candidate for such expansion will be I-S17250 a clade of I-CTS10228 Dinaric haplogroup,but why is not so prevalent in Eastern part of the Balkans?
The R1a clades,we again have a division, one clade dominating the Western part of the Balkans(Serbia,Bosnia,Montenegro etc) and other the Eastern part of the Balkans(Bulgaria,Macedonia,Thrace)
In Serbia and Bosnia the dominant clade is R1a-L1280
Croatia is mostly R1a CTS1211(aka 558) likewise Slovenia?
In Bulgaria the dominant clade is L1029 a clade of R1a m458 which is the most frequent in Poland,however L1029 is mostly found Belarus and Ukraine and not in Poland.Polish man mostly belong to L260? someone might correct me here.
Anyone interested can contribute more in this thread and help us to determine more interesting things with genetics.Anyway i am amased by this diversities of R1a and I2a din in western and eastern Balkans,if we owe them to the same expansion of same people in 6h and 7th centuries.
Yesterday i tried to separate all downstream of I-CTS10228 Dinaric,because many people try to lump as entire haplogroup was spreading by migrating Slavs of the 6th and 7th century.
I-S17250 found among South,North Slavs and their neighbors,could be a marker of this expansion?
Ken Nordtvedt has split Dinaric into Din-N and Din-S. Din-N is older than Din-S. N=north of the Danube and S=south of the Danube River. DYS448 = 19 for S and 20 for N.
In western part of the Balkans the prevalent is the co called Dinaric south cluster with ratio of roughly 70%-south and 30% north.A SNP which defines the Dinaric-South cluster has been identified. It is PH908,The more specific I-S17250 group includes all Dinaric-South men but it also includes some Dinaric-North men.In Eastern Balkans Dinaric north is prevalent for example in Bulgaria 75% belong to Dinaric north,the largest haplotype group among Bulgarians is Dinaric-North (75%), which is prevalent among all North Slavs and may suggest a recent migration north of the Danube river. Anyway, any evidence for such migration is yet not observed in connection to modern populations as more than 90% of the traced Dinaric-North Bulgarian haplotypes belong to the SNP group Z17855, being the prevailing clade in Bulgarians, somehow significant in the western Balkans and rare elsewhere observed.These SNP groups separated before the Slavic expansion in the Balkans.According to large datasets the dominant Bulgarian Z17855 SNP is even absent in north Slavic DNA projects-source genetics of Bulgarian people.
I-Y4460 found among North Slavs,Balts,Finns etc,not a marker of Slavic expansion to the Balkans.
I-Z17855 found among South,North Slavs and their neighbors,could be marker of Slavic expansion but according to Bulgarian genetic research is almost absent in north Slavic countries,any thoughts?
I-A2512 found among some Greeks and some further subclades of it among Jewish diaspora,most probably not a marker of Slavic expansion since this clade has TMRCA OF 2100 years and is found among Greeks.
Bottom line the best candidate for such expansion will be I-S17250 a clade of I-CTS10228 Dinaric haplogroup,but why is not so prevalent in Eastern part of the Balkans?
The R1a clades,we again have a division, one clade dominating the Western part of the Balkans(Serbia,Bosnia,Montenegro etc) and other the Eastern part of the Balkans(Bulgaria,Macedonia,Thrace)
In Serbia and Bosnia the dominant clade is R1a-L1280
Croatia is mostly R1a CTS1211(aka 558) likewise Slovenia?
In Bulgaria the dominant clade is L1029 a clade of R1a m458 which is the most frequent in Poland,however L1029 is mostly found Belarus and Ukraine and not in Poland.Polish man mostly belong to L260? someone might correct me here.
Anyone interested can contribute more in this thread and help us to determine more interesting things with genetics.Anyway i am amased by this diversities of R1a and I2a din in western and eastern Balkans,if we owe them to the same expansion of same people in 6h and 7th centuries.
Last edited:
