Abortion: Pro-life or Pro-choice?

[Golgo_13]

And, yes... I beat off with a very clear conscience.

What magazine do you use?

[Lina Inverse]

Hmm good point! I'll tell him that, but now he'll feel guilty when ever he shoots his sperm onto the ground.

He should feel guilty for that anyway if he reads the bible (and if he's as religious as you say, he probably does). In the bible there's already Onan who shoots his sperm on the ground, and that was regarded as a great sin!

[Duo]

Hmm, I myself am a little blurred by both pro-choice and pro-life. I believe, like Glenn was saying, that after the second trimester, or after the baby reaches maturity, abortion should not be performed. Also, it is not good for the health of the mother to abort a baby if he has passed the second trimester.

[Golgo_13]

In the bible there's already Onan who shoots his sperm on the ground

I bet Onan went blind!

[Elizabeth]

Wasn't he instead struck dead for not impregnating his dead brother's wife ? No wonder Japanese men don't have any of the normal onani complex .

[Lina Inverse]

Wasn't he instead struck dead for not impregnating his dead brother's wife ? No wonder Japanese men don't have any of the normal onani complex .

Yes, it was something very drastic like that

btw, did you know that there's actually a German word derived from Onan?
"onanieren" means "to masturbate" (We have "masturbieren" as well)

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, onani is one of the Japanese words for it as well.

[Lina Inverse]

Yeah, onani is one of the Japanese words for it as well.

Good to know that

[Golgo_13]

A question for Americans to consider:

When women do it, do they call it "Jill Off"?

[Lina Inverse]

A question for Americans to consider:

When women do it, do they call it "Jill Off"?

"Jil" as opposed to "Jerk"? Never heard of that...
I'd say it's called "rubbing the carpet"

[Golgo_13]

That's why it says "for Americans to consider". They would get it and find it funny.

[Lina Inverse]

That's why it says "for Americans to consider". They would get it and find it funny.

Well... perhaps you could tell us non-Americans who this Jill is?

[Dan B]

"Jack and Jill went up the hill
to fetch a pail of water..."

"Jill" in this sense is an oblique reference to a nursery rhyme in which, we might generalize, boys are referred to as "Jack" and girls are referred to as "Jill."

Regardless, I'm quite new to this board and I therefore hesitate to comment. But I wonder if some of the sentiments here might be expressed with a little more regard for people's feelings. Abortion is a polarizing issue and its very nature conjurs up deeply-held beliefs, irrespective of the "side" one elects to support.

It would seem to me that mocking another person's beliefs about--or position on--the matter serves little purpose except to further alienate people of opposing views. Yet that surely cannot be the intent of anyone who engages in such a discussion...?

Forgive me, but it seems rather counter-productive.

Regards,

Dan

[Lina Inverse]

So it comes from a nursery rhyme... I see. No wonder I didn't know it

[chiquiliquis]

What magazine do you use?

Clear Conscience Magazine

Glenn,
My point is this: life is beyond all representational thought.

I am pro-life and pro-choice. I believe in affirming life through choice.

[Elizabeth]

"Jack and Jill went up the hill
to fetch a pail of water..."

"Jill" in this sense is an oblique reference to a nursery rhyme in which, we might generalize, boys are referred to as "Jack" and girls are referred to as "Jill."

I'd say these are the clear references but that weren't being used in direct reference to abortion here....You could make a stronger argument they were religiously insensitive (thus mocking an absolutist pro-life position no one has taken), and if anyone claimed offense I'm sure the discussion would come to a dead end as abortion debates generally do.

[Dan B]

Elizabeth,

It seems that our wires have gotten crossed. To clarify, I only referred to Jack and Jill in an effort to answer someone's question about the relevance of the name "Jill."

My other remarks were an independent and intentionally vague allusion to some earlier comments which would seem to have been made with the intent to disparage--rather than to honestly debate or discuss the logical merits and demerits of--the beliefs of those of opposing views.

In my experience, discussions of abortion almost inevitably devolve into little more than a collection of fruitless ad hominem attacks, with such attacks being made by proponents of both sides.

I must admit that, on the whole, this has been one of the more rational abortion discussions that I've read. I made my comments in the hope that this would continue.

Regards,

Dan

[Elizabeth]

My other remarks were an independent and intentionally vague allusion to some earlier comments which would seem to have been made with the intent to disparage--rather than to honestly debate or discuss the logical merits and demerits of--the beliefs of those of opposing views.

For better or worse, you'll need to be direct and specific on this board (and any I've ever been on).

[Glenn]

So it comes from a nursery rhyme... I see. No wonder I didn't know it

Just to add a little clarification: masturbation is commonly called "jacking off" among guys, so "jilling off" would be the female version.

By the way, Golgo, I thought the joke was funny.

Glenn,
My point is this: life is beyond all representational thought.

I am pro-life and pro-choice. I believe in affirming life through choice.

I guess I'm an idiot, because this still seems vague to me. How are you pro-choice and pro-life, in the context of the abortion debate? I'm still having problems relating what you have said in a significant way to this topic. Sorry.

I must admit that, on the whole, this has been one of the more rational abortion discussions that I've read. I made my comments in the hope that this would continue.

Thank you for saying that. I was hoping to have an open discussion on the points that I mentioned above, but no one seems to want to comment on them. I'm not sure of the reasons why, though.

[Winter]

Pro-Choice - Abortion should generally be allowed! Let the women make a choice, without being influenced by any braindead christian organizations who just want to talk her into getting the child even if it would often be much better not to because the mother can't make an outcome and/or is too young for it. Abortion is never murder, that's utter nonsense! The life of the mother is alway more valuable than the "life" (if you can even call it that way) of something that isn't even born yet, so she must not be forced to ruin her life just to have the child!

Wow......thats....well, just a bit harsh.

[Elizabeth]

Just to add a little clarification: masturbation is commonly called "jacking off" among guys, so "jilling off" would be the female version.

By the way, Golgo13, I thought the joke was funny.

Jacking off is an allusion to Jack's activities in the second verse (of the original rhyme) however.....there's no way of knowing what happened to Jill after she went tumbling after.

[Glenn]

Jacking off is an allusion to Jack's activities in the second verse (of the original rhyme) however.....there's no way of knowing what happened to Jill after she went tumbling after.

Hmm, I guess I need to find a copy of the original rhyme, then. All that I can remember is "Jack and Jill went up a hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down and broke his crown, and Jill came tumbling after."

[Elizabeth]

Glenn,
My point is this: life is beyond all representational thought.

I am pro-life and pro-choice. I believe in affirming life through choice.

Yes, no one is anti-life so you must use these labels in the standard way to be understood.

[kirei_na_me]

Maybe I should make a thread specifically for analyzing the nursery rhyme, Jack and Jill?

[Elizabeth]

Do we have any threads analyzing how shy Japanese people are in talking about sexual matters ? . I don't think it needs to get any more graphic personally.....