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bossel
23-07-04, 03:12
Well, science has made another great step forward. Now soldiers can pee on their rations to make them edible. :nuts:

A silly as it sounds, it's true. Found it today on the New Scientist website (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996185):
"Food scientists working for the US military have developed a dried food ration that troops can hydrate by adding the filthiest of muddy swamp water or even peeing on it.

The ration comes in a pouch containing a filter that removes 99.9 per cent of bacteria and most toxic chemicals from the water used to rehydrate it,"

Jean-Francois
23-07-04, 06:11
During my first year in university, a Japanese roommate kept telling me the benefit of drinking urine – beautifying skin, preventing cancer, anti-aging & etc.. She said the first urine in the morning was the most effective. She even told me that she could offer me some “iced-pee” if I wanted to try.

Err…. I mean I like Japanese food, Japanese music and I like Japan fine, but I don’t like it enough to drink Japanese people’s pee.

Btw, my roommate was very pretty and voluptuous. She had a Swiss boyfriend who was into French kissing. Whenever I saw them tongue-tieing in our room, I felt wierd... :p Hee hee, little did he know... :blush:

Buddha Smoker
23-07-04, 07:42
I just read this article and found it interesting. But it does say that possible long term effects could be kidney damage.

TwistedMac
23-07-04, 12:21
During my first year in university, a Japanese roommate kept telling me the benefit of drinking urine – beautifying skin, preventing cancer, anti-aging & etc.. She said the first urine in the morning was the most effective. She even told me that she could offer me some “iced-pee” if I wanted to try.

Err…. I mean I like Japanese food, Japanese music and I like Japan fine, but I don’t like it enough to drink Japanese people’s pee.

Btw, my roommate was very pretty and voluptuous. She had a Swiss boyfriend who was into French kissing. Whenever I saw them tongue-tieing in our room, I felt wierd... :p Hee hee, little did he know... :blush:

oh my god... the question arises... you find out your girlfriend (who is a beautiful, voluptous asian chick) is a pee-drinker... do you stop dating her or do you insist she rinse, spit and repeat a few times before every kiss and live with it (atleast for a year or so)? (we're asuming she's so serious about this talking her out of it is not an option.. she'd rather leave you than leave the pee which is her lifestyle..)

EscaFlowne
23-07-04, 14:59
:?
....
Im sorry but shawty gots to go! PEe...Not even for beautiful skin, cancer or whateva...No woamn should drink that .....or anybody for that matter! :D

kirei_na_me
23-07-04, 15:11
I suddenly have a bad taste in my mouth... :sick:

I wonder if the boyfriend's skin is looking good these days. I wonder how well he's aging?

*cringe*

PaulTB
23-07-04, 15:17
Hee hee, little did he know... :blush:
You HOPE he doesn't know ... :mad: :relief:

Jean-Francois
23-07-04, 15:42
Im sorry but shawty gots to go! PEe...Not even for beautiful skin, cancer or whateva...No woamn should drink that .....or anybody for that matter!

Don't be surprised what women would do for beautiful skin. When my sister who had a face of freckles found out about it, she offered to pay me US$1000 to try the "formula" and see if it worked. But I told her to try it first ... so, it ended up neither of us had tried it.

PaulTB
23-07-04, 16:01
Don't be surprised what women would do for beautiful skin. When my sister who had a face of freckles found out about it, she offered to pay me US$1000 to try the "formula" and see if it worked.
Pfft as if it's going to do anything about freckles. At the absolute most the only way it can work for anything is if you are losing useful trace elements & such through urine. However freckles aren't the result of lack of any sort of trace chemical / vitamin but a perfectly normal response to sunlight on skin so it would be a complete waste of time.

FWIW I don't think it's likely to cause any health problems, if you're healthy in the first place and if you take reasonable amounts of normal (non-alcoholic) drinks in the day as well. I'm not the only one with that opinion (http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2187.html).

Glenn
23-07-04, 21:01
What kind of freckles are we talking about here? The full body type or just on the face? I don't see what the big deal is anyway, I happen to find freckles sexy (on women, of course). :relief: :D

PaulTB
23-07-04, 21:13
What kind of freckles are we talking about here? The full body type or just on the face?
Oy! It's his sister. He really shouldn't have the opportunity to know that. :D
[EDIT] Oops. Just fallen for the oldest slip-up on the net. 95% of everybody online is male. :p

kirei_na_me
23-07-04, 21:20
I think freckles are cute too. I wouldn't get rid of mine! :p And if I wanted to get rid of them, I wouldn't take that approach! :mad:

Glenn
23-07-04, 21:35
I'm pretty sure "he" is a "she," right Jean-Francois? Anyway, it's not as though they couldn't talk about it. I happen to know some things about my brother's anatomy that I probably shouldn't, but that's because we are close in age and spent a lot of time bathing together as children.

Jean-Francois
23-07-04, 21:38
Sorry, did I say I was a guy before? I B.S. all the time so I can't really remember, maybe I should check my profile. Anyway...

Yeah, I personally find freckles pretty intriguing too, but in East Asia, almost every woman wants to have skin “as flawless as the egg white”. Look at how popular all those whitening products are! :D

Glenn
23-07-04, 21:40
Hmm, maybe people just think that your handle is a male name, so they assume that you are male too? :clueless:

cross-platform
23-07-04, 22:01
Heh, that is pretty nasty, although I remember hearing something about the mornings first pee being the most potent or something. I don't remember where I heard that or why.

What if a friend got stung by a jellyfish, would you pee on them?

kirei_na_me
23-07-04, 22:13
Well, morning pee is best if you're taking a pregnancy test. Morning urine contains the most concentrated hCG levels because you haven't had an opportunity to dilute it by drinking a bunch of water or something like that.

And I came across this just now:

http://skepdic.com/urine.html

PaulTB
23-07-04, 22:19
Hmm, maybe people just think that your handle is a male name, so they assume that you are male too? :clueless:
Sorry I'm no good with for'n names. Unless they're Japanese foreign names.

I also have a tendency to assume everybody on the Internet is male until they say otherwise. (Not that always can be relied on :relief: )

Frank D. White
23-07-04, 22:55
[QUOTE=Jean-Francois]Sorry, did I say I was a guy before? I B.S. all the time so I can't really remember, maybe I should check my profile. Anyway...

It took me 190 of your posts to find out you are female!
I always thought you were male? For some unknown reason, I try to pay more attention to the posts made by females? I will apply more attention to you Jean-Francois!

Frank

:blush:

kirei_na_me
23-07-04, 23:14
Well, she told the story of how she got her name in the 'what does your name mean' thread, I think?

It's easy to get confused, though, because Jean-Francois is a guy's name.

Glenn
23-07-04, 23:17
And I came across this just now:

http://skepdic.com/urine.html

Wow, that was really interesting and informative. So it basically doesn't affect things one way or the other, kind of like eggplant (http://freshcutproduce.com/nutrifax/eggplant.html). It was nice to see someone use the word "healthful" correctly, too, lol. :D


I also have a tendency to assume everybody on the Internet is male until they say otherwise. (Not that always can be relied on )

Obviously it can't. :p :-)

bossel
24-07-04, 03:59
Well, morning pee is best if you're taking a pregnancy test. Morning urine contains the most concentrated hCG levels because you haven't had an opportunity to dilute it by drinking a bunch of water or something like that.

And I came across this just now:

http://skepdic.com/urine.html
What you said about morning pee seems to be the exact reason why you are supposed to use that for urine therapy.
The article you linked seems a bit biased. For what I know urine therapy might have some positive effects, although those are not doubtlessly proven. Hence in Germany most health insurance companies don't pay for it.
It's surely no panacea.

Since I find even the thought of drinking my own urine disgusting, I wouldn't use it anyway (at least as long as I didn't try every other possible healing method).

Here is a more balanced article about urine therapy:
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~issues/fall02/urine.html

Lina Inverse
24-07-04, 04:19
I certainly wouldn't touch this rations after someone peed on it :relief:


Sorry, did I say I was a guy before? I B.S. all the time so I can't really remember, maybe I should check my profile. Anyway...
Now that's news for me as well... guess I was deceived by the male user name either.


Yeah, I personally find freckles pretty intriguing too, but in East Asia, almost every woman wants to have skin “as flawless as the egg white”. Look at how popular all those whitening products are! :D
Which is another reason why I really like Japan :up:
Now I don't mind freckles (as long as it's not too excessive), but tanning thorougly disgusts me :mad:

Glenn
24-07-04, 04:24
...but tanning thorougly disgusts me

Really? Why is that? I like tanned women as well as those who aren't as tanned. What I don't like is the fake bake.

PaulTB
24-07-04, 05:20
Really? Why is that? I like tanned women as well as those who aren't as tanned. What I don't like is the fake bake.
' said tanning not tanned women.

I don't mind the appearance of being tanned - but spending time each week damaging your skin with UV to look slightly 'better'. Now that's disgusting. :okashii:

They'll regret it when they're 50 and their skin looks like they're 70. :D

Melanin producing treatments will be available just around the corner. Instant, long lasting tan and protection from UV without excessive exposure to UV in the first place. :cool:

(From now on I'll stick with ' said - it's safer :relief: )

Golgo_13
24-07-04, 07:06
Me [ ]nese
Me make joke
Me make pee pee
In your coke

kirei_na_me
24-07-04, 13:00
Tanning is bad! A little out in the natural sunlight is okay, but forget those tanning beds! Everyone around here is orange except me! :mad: My son's Kindergarten teacher was known for how beautiful she supposedly is. I could tell she tanned in a tanning bed, but never really gave it much thought until the first time I really talked with her and noticed the skin on her neck and chest. She is only maybe 35, but the skin on her neck and chest looks like it belongs to an 80 year old. I was in shock!


What you said about morning pee seems to be the exact reason why you are supposed to use that for urine therapy.
The article you linked seems a bit biased. For what I know urine therapy might have some positive effects, although those are not doubtlessly proven. Hence in Germany most health insurance companies don't pay for it.
It's surely no panacea.

Since I find even the thought of drinking my own urine disgusting, I wouldn't use it anyway (at least as long as I didn't try every other possible healing method).

Here is a more balanced article about urine therapy:
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~issues/fall02/urine.html

The article I posted was just the first one I came to about it. I didn't even take the time to see if it was biased or not. I just thought that it was interesting that when I put in 'morning urine', that was the first thing that came up.

PaulTB
24-07-04, 13:08
The article I posted was just the first one I came to about it. I didn't even take the time to see if it was biased or not.
I wouldn't worry. It's a bit on the brusk and dismissive side - but the second-year MCB student at UC Berkeley (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~issues/fall02/urine.html)'s article ranks WAAAY higher on my dubiousity meter. It also looks suspiciously as if large chunks of it have just been copied from other articles.

bossel
24-07-04, 21:38
It also looks suspiciously as if large chunks of it have just been copied from other articles.
Yep, of course, lots of quotes, that's what you do as a student. You look for sources, take what's best (or what best shows the point) & put it together to an essay, term paper or whatever. This article shows what's going on regardin urine therapy with a slightly positive conclusion.

Anyway, it's published in the "Berkley Medical Journal", hence there should have been some professional review.

BTW, why ranks the work of a 2nd year student of MCB (Molecular and Cell Biology) "WAAAY higher on [your] dubiousity meter" than some stuff from a philosophy teacher? Philosophy is the way to go in medicinal research?
Being skeptic is good, but you can overdo it.

PaulTB
24-07-04, 21:49
Yep, of course, lots of quotes
There's a not so fine line between quotes and plagerism. That article is a motely mismatch of unattributed and barely attributed bits stuck together with folksy waffle and a flimsy attempt at analysis.

Anyway, it's published in the "Berkley Medical Journal", hence there should have been some professional review.
Bets? [EDIT] No need to bet because Issues is a completely student-run medical journal at the University of California, Berkeley. (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~issues/home.html)

BTW, why ranks the work of a 2nd year student of MCB (Molecular and Cell Biology) "WAAAY higher on [your] dubiousity meter" than some stuff from a philosophy teacher?
Because of what said 2nd year student had written. The bits of it that they actually _had_ written instead of just copied. Incidently those weren't the only two sources I read before pronouncing judgement.

Mike Cash
25-07-04, 00:23
During my first year in university, a Japanese roommate kept telling me the benefit of drinking urine – beautifying skin, preventing cancer, anti-aging & etc.. She said the first urine in the morning was the most effective. She even told me that she could offer me some “iced-pee” if I wanted to try.

Err…. I mean I like Japanese food, Japanese music and I like Japan fine, but I don’t like it enough to drink Japanese people’s pee.

Btw, my roommate was very pretty and voluptuous. She had a Swiss boyfriend who was into French kissing. Whenever I saw them tongue-tieing in our room, I felt wierd... :p Hee hee, little did he know... :blush:

This is known in Japan as 飲尿健康法 (innyou kenkouhou) and received quite a bit of attention a few years back, being featured on the daytime "wide show" type of program which is notorious in Japan for spreading whatever the latest unfounded B.S. happens to be.

bossel
25-07-04, 03:42
There's a not so fine line between quotes and plagerism. That article is a motely mismatch of unattributed and barely attributed bits stuck together with folksy waffle and a flimsy attempt at analysis.
I wouldn't be so harsh on her. That's how students work. Although here in Germany we would have to give our sources.



Issues is a completely student-run medical journal at the University of California, Berkeley. (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~issues/home.html)
Good one, didn't know that. They seem to get a grade (pass credit? whatever that is) for what they write, hence there must be some review. But, well, I'm not very accustomed to the US educational system.



Because of what said 2nd year student had written. The bits of it that they actually _had_ written instead of just copied. Incidently those weren't the only two sources I read before pronouncing judgement.
Neither were those my only sources, I read up on this before. Except for 2 or 3 points, it's quite alright what she wrote. Esp. considering the conclusion, which for me is the most important part of a publication. This article is not a research paper but supposed to give an overview of urine therapy. I would have done it differently, but it's surely better balanced than what the philosophy teacher wrote.

PaulTB
25-07-04, 04:48
but it's surely better balanced than what the philosophy teacher wrote.

1st paragraph = content free waffle.
2nd paragraph: "Drinking urine is a concept that is hard for most people to swallow" Very punny, "but its claimed healing abilities may make this ancient practice worth a try." Claimed healing abilities are entirely irrelevant to whether it's worth a try or not and cupping is an ancient medical practice.
3rd paragraph: "Urine may provide ..." Yeah, and a meteor may crash through my bedroom roof tomorrow and toast my computer.
4th, 5th, 6th: Background stuff, fair enough, but not particularly balanced.
7th paragraph: Not that far out. If you start at the skeptic end of the range "relatively sterile, HIV has been found present but in very low amounts ..." and goes on to mention Hepatitis B and other diseases that can be passed on through urine. Then if you look at the 'pro' sites have comments like "absolutely sterile" which is just wrong.
8th paragraph: Actually content! Although the 'sterile' line still is in there.
9th paragraph: Classic Doe Snot. "Far from being harmful, urine contains known healing agents." Well I'm sure it holds a whole heap o' stuff. If I give you a pill of 50% asprin, 50% cyanide would you take it? It contains a known healing agent. "Clinical studies have proven that the thousands of critical body chemicals and nutrients that end up in urine reflect the individual body’s functions." Well duh. They've just come out of somebody's body - of course they 'reflect the individual body's functions'. More Does Not "When re-utilized, these chemicals and nutrients act as natural vaccines, antibacterial, antiviral and anticarcinogenic agents as well as hormone balancers and allergy relievers." That may well be true for individual chemicals picked out of the 1000's in urine and delivered in appropriate doses but it says absolutely nothing about whether, in the doses found in urine taken with the entire set has any positive effect at all.
10th paragraph: More of the same, with the same logic flaw.
11th paragraph: First half - actual content. Followed by more Does Snot "Additionally, urine can smooth and moisturize the skin." Well of course it can - it's mostly water. "Face creams or wrinkle removers most likely contain urea or a derivative of it. According to John Armstrong’s 1971 book, The Water of Life, expensive and elegant European facial soaps often contain human, cow or pig urine." Not mentioning that face creams and wrinkle removers are a) Mostly a load of rubbish. b) Incredibly superstitious in what ingredients are used. It's hard to imagine a 'better' source of pseudo and bad-science than the 'beauty' market.
12th paragraph: "Urine therapy is also being used to treat cancer patients." Oh now we're really getting into the nasty end of things. There's nothing worse than the old 'Desparate patient spends lots of money on alternative cures to no effect' bit, except for the even better 'Treatable patient ignores standard medical advice and ends up broke and dead'. First a bit more Does Not “The Italian surgeon Stanislau R. Burzynski, separated anti-neoplastin from human urine and showed remarkale results in the treatment of cancer,” The key word here is separated. The next wonder cure might a chemical be found in some dog shit rotting in a wood somewhere. This does not imply that applying dog shit itself is going to do any good.
"said B.V. Khare, M.D., a physician from Mumbai, India who advocates urine therapy to his patients." And may God have mercy on them.
Well I could go on for the rest of the article but it's long enough for me already.

Genius
25-07-04, 05:29
Benefits of drinking urine – beautifying skin, preventing cancer, anti-aging & etc..

I heard of this on TV. It was from the show Taboo only the people who were drinking their on urine was the native americans. I'm not sure which tribe it was though but they said that drinking urine is what kept them healthy and able to live a long life. I'm still a little skeptical. :?

Jean-Francois
25-07-04, 05:39
This is known in Japan as 飲尿健康法 (innyou kenkouhou) and received quite a bit of attention a few years back, being featured on the daytime "wide show" type of program which is notorious in Japan for spreading whatever the latest unfounded B.S. happens to be.

Well, it was more than 10 years ago. When my room-mate told the other girls in the dormitory, most Caucasian girls' reactions were, "Get out of here!" They didn't really believe that, but my room-mate insisted that she could buy it from a Japanese department store.

I knew she wasn't bullshiting because I knew it was a FACT that there were people (most of them were cancer patients who were desparate enough to try anything) practising 飲尿健康法 in both China and Japan. I didn't think less of my room-mate because she drank urine, and I won't feel ashamed or try to hide that fact - where I come from, there are people who drink pee.

PaulTB
25-07-04, 07:57
and I won't feel ashamed or try to hide that fact - where I come from, there are people who drink pee.
You're misinterpretting. "the latest unfounded B.S."* is all the amazing things it's supposed to do. Nobody's doubting that there are people who drink urine - under whatever name, and for whatever reason.

* MikeCash's words, not mine.

Mike Cash
25-07-04, 08:31
Yes, Jean-Francois, you've misinterpreted. Sorry if my writing lacked in clarity and contributed to the misinterpretation. You would really have to be familiar with the sort of B.S. that gets passed out as 100% simon-pure gospel on those shows.

I believe that the 飲尿健康法 "boom" and the appearance on the various wide shows by various "experts" dressed in the de riguer white lab coats was somewhere around 10 years ago, too, which would roughly correspond with the era of the incident you related to us.

There is a large section of the Japanese population which buys completely into practically anything the wide shows put out. Current King of the wide shows and dapper darling of the housewife set is Mino Monta, a man sometimes described as "smarminess made flesh". A few years ago he did a segment on the health benefits of drinking cocoa. There was a run on stores for cocoa. Practically every package of cocoa in Japan got snapped up.

One that I actually liked was the ノーパン健康法, which was not a health plan that involved giving up bread, but giving up the wearing of undershorts. I just did a little googling on it, trying to pin down the year. Haven't found it yet, but I did get a rather humorous link: http://www010.upp.so-net.ne.jp/allhugehuman/20040422.htm

canadian_kor
25-07-04, 09:03
Hey, whatever it takes to survive on the battlefield. :souka:

Jean-Francois
25-07-04, 09:27
when my Japanese roommate told the other girls, everybody assumed that it just was another practical joke planted by me. Well, I admitted that I had fed them roast pork before and made them choke by saying that it was dog meat… but most of the time I was a nice person although ...

another time I did conspire with my roommate to win more than a hundred bucks from them when we played TRUTH OR DARE.

Errr…I asked my J-roommate to dare me to dip an egg in Chinese black ink and devour it. And then I asked the other floor mates to bet money on it. (Of course I didn’t really dip it in black ink, it was just a preserved
egg 皮 蛋 which was already black in color.) But at least it gave them a chance to see a yellow person consuming a black egg. Live! Very good entertainment, right?

So, I wasn’t really that evil. What were these people thinking when they said I was the one who cooked up with such a thing to trick them into pee drinking?

It was NYC and I was supposed to be PRESUMED INNOCENT in spite of what I’d done before….

PaulTB
25-07-04, 09:37
It was NYC and I was supposed to be PRESUMMED INNOCENT in spite of what I’d done before….
That was obviously prior to 9/11 then.

bossel
25-07-04, 17:33
A lot of work, PTB, but what's the point? The article is still not as biased as that of the philosophy teacher which simply dismisses urine therapy. It has to be researched thoroughly before the conclusion can be drawn that it doesn't work at all. Before that research is done, it's up to the individual to decide whether to try it, or not.


Yeah, and a meteor may crash through my bedroom roof tomorrow and toast my computer.
Now you are criticizing that the article is not positive enough? Should she have written "is absolutely sure to..."?


7th paragraph: Not that far out. If you start at the skeptic end of the range "relatively sterile, HIV has been found present but in very low amounts ..." and goes on to mention Hepatitis B and other diseases that can be passed on through urine. Then if you look at the 'pro' sites have comments like "absolutely sterile" which is just wrong.
Misquoting? Where is "absolutely sterile" in the article? & where is this "sterile, HIV has been found" part? Just quoting other websites?
But this "sterile" part is actually one of the few points I would criticize. Since urine therapy is done with one's own urine this is not much of a concern, though.



"said B.V. Khare, M.D., a physician from Mumbai, India who advocates urine therapy to his patients." And may God have mercy on them.
Why? Which god, anyway?



Well I could go on for the rest of the article but it's long enough for me already.
Well you left out the essential part, the conclusion:
"Despite the first impression that the Western mind often has of seeing the modern practice of urine therapy as antiquated at the least, or revolting at the most, its value need not be immediately dismissed. However, it is up to the people to decide if it is right for them."

earthangel
09-02-05, 13:47
Don't be surprised what women would do for beautiful skin. When my sister who had a face of freckles found out about it, she offered to pay me US$1000 to try the "formula" and see if it worked. But I told her to try it first ... so, it ended up neither of us had tried it.

Jean Francois if you read the labels on most moisturising creams, they contain urea which is animals pee. It's all sterile etc. but still ...