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Duo
24-07-04, 03:08
With the recent enlargement of the EU, the union is now a 450 million people political and economical entity. If the EU progress the right way, and in the next 10 years swallows up all of Europe, do you think that it will become the new superpower in the world, or will it just counterbalance the US equally in magnitude, or will the US still be the sole superpower?

Personally, if the EU takes the right path and becomes trule a unified Europe, I would like to see it guide the world into it's own vision and see what would happen.

Frank D. White
24-07-04, 03:13
the US will have to declare bankruptcy and start selling off the states one by one! I'm trying to set up a deal where Japan buys Maine!!

Frank

:D

Maciamo
24-07-04, 03:50
I'll already place an offer on New York, then !

Joke apart, the EU still has a long way before the countries agree to give up their sovereignty and create a real federal country. Or is it really necessary ? What is developping now has never happened in history yet. Not only do we already have a union of nation states that have a common flag, anthemn, EU nationality, parliament, supreme court, currency (though not all countries), and soon a constitution, president and foreign minister; each country still retains a large independence reagrding finance (incl. taxation), defence and foreign policy, which means that we have a dual level country, where everybody has 2 nationalities, and every country has (at least) 2 parliament, 2 set of ministers, etc. This cannot be called nation-state, so we need to invent a new word for this new concept.

TwistedMac
24-07-04, 03:53
europe will not be as unified as america in the next 2-300 years atleast...

Reason: everyones looking out for #1..
every country tries to get better stuff for themselves, not really caring about what's happening in the other countries...

the notion of the EU as one state will take a few generations to sink in.. so we most probably will not see it...

i think the powershift will instead be to asia.. they will take the throne from america (i believe) and wont even have to be all that united..

which is alot better, because the countries within asia will never be able to pull any stunts off like bushs slamming on countries outside the american borders.. they'll be too busy bickering internally =P

or something... i should probably edit tis post tommorrow... i'm about to fall asleep over my keyboard.. so don't take me too seriously.. odds are i feel differently tomorrow..

Duo
24-07-04, 04:19
U had a good point about countries not caring of what happens to the other. About the power falling over into Asia, I don't know about that. The only true power in Asia is China, and they have an identity problem. I think Europeans, all of them, should realize that only together they can impose their way, and stop stupid and old meaningles feuds between states.

bossel
24-07-04, 04:36
U had a good point about countries not caring of what happens to the other. About the power falling over into Asia, I don't know about that. The only true power in Asia is China, and they have an identity problem. I think Europeans, all of them, should realize that only together they can impose their way, and stop stupid and old meaningles feuds between states.
As for Asia, you are probably right. Although I'm not sure about China, maybe they will be the next super power or they will fall apart like the Soviet Union. I don't see a stable outlook yet.

As for Europe, I hope, they don't become a super power & that they won't try to impose their way. Another USA? Better not!
Maybe the core of the EU (France, Germany & some other countries) will become a federal republic, but they won't have enough money to build a military as the US has now.

Duo
24-07-04, 05:09
When i say impose, i mean "lead the way". I dont want europe to become a military power either. It doesn't need to. With the huge market that it has, it can become an economic power house.

Wang
24-07-04, 09:13
When i say impose, i mean "lead the way". I dont want europe to become a military power either. It doesn't need to. With the huge market that it has, it can become an economic power house.

The European Union is already a economic power house.

Duo
24-07-04, 13:57
Yes, but not at full potential. Also not of Europe has entered the EU yet.

Wang
24-07-04, 16:28
Also not of Europe has entered the EU yet.

What do you mean?

Arch
24-07-04, 16:48
Nah no chance, as Mac said its about number 1. Many of the EU countries dont even get along !!

TimF
24-07-04, 21:16
I personally dont care who is the superpower I mean I live in the US and I would rather live anywhere else but the US and the middle east. If I had a choice I would live in Japan. It just seems much more peaceful than the US it is a place where I can "live".

canadian_kor
24-07-04, 21:19
I think the EU will become a powerhouse soon. They have more people there and if they can get the military coordinated together they can become one intimidating entity. The only downside is that they are still not a cohesive enough entity (like the US).

What about Asia having something similar? Like China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, and Vietnam? Or am I being silly? :-)

TimF
24-07-04, 21:29
Dont forget that EU was the superpower once already and a war with the US changed that.

Duo
24-07-04, 23:10
What do you mean?

Sorry about the typo. I meant not all OF Europe has entered the EU yet.


Dont forget that EU was the superpower once already and a war with the US changed that.

Hmmm, I dont recall this one happening.... :?

TimF
24-07-04, 23:20
Hmmm, I dont recall this one happening.... :?

It was a little thing called the Revolutionary war. :-)

Brooker
24-07-04, 23:44
The EU does have the unity problem. If the EU was a superpower it would probably create huge tensions beteen America and Europe (like with the Soviet Union) but it might help to keep America in check. So I'm not sure if the EU being a superpower would be a good thing or a bad thing. Many of those countries have a history of tyranny just as bad or worse than America.

Duo
25-07-04, 00:13
It was a little thing called the Revolutionary war. :-)

That was England the US fought against, and they got help from the French thank you very much :wave: . So next time you americans decide to rant on the french don't forget they were your first ally. :cool:
Vive la France as they say :p


The EU does have the unity problem. If the EU was a superpower it would probably create huge tensions beteen America and Europe (like with the Soviet Union) but it might help to keep America in check. So I'm not sure if the EU being a superpower would be a good thing or a bad thing. Many of those countries have a history of tyranny just as bad or worse than America.

Yes, but it doesn't have to so united like the US. It can be a a type of federal entity. Take Switzerland for example, 26 different cantons, 3 different languages, no problem in stickin together. Also look at Belgium, run in a federal style, the Flemish and French-speakin area have separate governments, languages, and even different public transportation. So is not so hard to picture a unified Europe, but the problem is that if the big countries such as Germany and France think that they can still be the most influental and try to lead the union, that might cause some tension amongst members. Also the UK's position within the Union is doubtful. They have not adopted the Euro and are reluctant to join fully. I hope they do make up their mind to join and if not just say they dont want to and leave. The british people seem to think that they will loose soverignity and other things if they join, but I think that they will gain a lot more than they will loose.

TimF
25-07-04, 00:39
That was England the US fought against, and they got help from the French thank you very much :wave: . So next time you americans decide to rant on the french don't forget they were your first ally. :cool:
Vive la France as they say :p

Where are the french chicken shits now? It's pretty bad that they are affraid of an army that is not even in like the top ten in power. That is one thing i can say about the US is we never chickened out. Sorry didn't mean to offend anyone.

Duo
25-07-04, 01:00
Where are the french chicken shits now? It's pretty bad that they are affraid of an army that is not even in like the top ten in power. That is one thing i can say about the US is we never chickened out. Sorry didn't mean to offend anyone.

What kind of comment is that?!! :okashii:
France didn't want to in a war they didnt' beleive in. The US would be lucky if French troops start rollin in Iraq, seeing as how they know well that area. We are seeing what a mess the non chiken shit have made, but anyways this is digressing from the thread so i'll just say I don't think that the french were scared of entering the war, rather they were skeptical about it's nature and it's outcome. I guess they have been proven right after all.


I think the EU will become a powerhouse soon. They have more people there and if they can get the military coordinated together they can become one intimidating entity. The only downside is that they are still not a cohesive enough entity (like the US).

What about Asia having something similar? Like China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, and Vietnam? Or am I being silly? :-)

I beleive there is an organization called ASEAN, which is similar in nature to the EU, but is NOT(forgot to put this part in the original post) quite the same.

TwistedMac
25-07-04, 01:02
there seems to be a misunderstanding in a few places in this thread, let me clear it up..

EU does not equal Europe!

the EU is not very old, not old enough by far to have had anything to do with the revolutionary war.. i'd say youre a few hundred years off..

Like Duo said, that was Great Britain.. if the rest of europe were to help GB on that one, you guys would still be our bitches ;)

TimF
25-07-04, 01:10
As I stated before I dont give a rats arse what happens to the US. And yes you are right about one thing the war the us is in now is bullshit "THE WAR ON TERROR" my arse! This whole country dishonors me that is why I am leaving as soon as possible. To be honest I would LOVE to see EU rise up and be the new "superpower" maybe it will take a little focus of this hellhole of a country. But I dont see that happening beacuse you are to divided.

But if EU ever becomes a "superpower" GOOD ON YA!!!! I will drink to that!!!!!
:beer: :beer: :beer:

TwistedMac
25-07-04, 01:22
god i hope that doesn't happen.. if you think america has a corrupt governament now.. we have so many assholes in europe, and they're all politicians!

Brooker
25-07-04, 02:17
Duo wrote....

Take Switzerland for example, 26 different cantons, 3 different languages, no problem in stickin together. Also look at Belgium, run in a federal style, the Flemish and French-speakin area have separate governments, languages, and even different public transportation. So is not so hard to picture a unified Europe,

But you're talking about various government organizations in an area smaller than one U.S. state. There's a long way to go to get all of the areas in all of the countries in Europe to agree.

....and....

France didn't want to in a war they didnt' beleive in.

If I were France I wouldn't have joined this stupid war either. It has nothing to do with bravery.

Duo
25-07-04, 02:50
Duo wrote....

But you're talking about various government organizations in an area smaller than one U.S. state. There's a long way to go to get all of the areas in all of the countries in Europe to agree.


Absolutely, there is a long way. I was just giving examples that the EU doesn't need to be as adhesive as the US, but can be a bit more loose.

Brooker
25-07-04, 04:03
Granted. But (for better or worse) I think one of the main reasons the U.S. is so strong is that it is so firmly united.

Wang
25-07-04, 08:52
The European Union is already the largest economic entity in the world. So it's already the number 1 economic superpower.
It can also become a political superpower and military superpower if they want to take on that heavy burden, but then some more reforms need to be done in the EU before it could work well and efficiently.

King of Tokyo
25-07-04, 09:23
Where are the french chicken shits now? It's pretty bad that they are affraid of an army that is not even in like the top ten in power. That is one thing i can say about the US is we never chickened out. Sorry didn't mean to offend anyone.

Americans will always be arrogant about war. They did not even enter World War II until they were attacked directly, so they did chicken out. France has not been attacked by Osama or Sadam so why should they enter this war effort, Americans were no different. That is one thing that annoys me about the U.S.A., the fact that you think you single handedly won the wars and never "chickened out"..Pfft.. Now, sure you have alot of bombs, Congratulations, There's more to life than war you know.. Actually, War will most likely be the cause of having nothing more to life, if you know what I mean.
(TimF I am not saying this to you personally, it's just about america, lol)
Aaagh whatever.. I must go now, and never return to this thread.. lol
Oh yeah and on topic.. umm.. I hope EU doesn't become powerful because it will probably cause militarism and an arms race and the eventual war to kill us all :) .. wait that is nothing :) about.. this is more appropriate :worried:

Jean-Francois
25-07-04, 21:57
behind their prides.

Arm race between EU and US?

Not very likely… Unlike China, the European Union doesn’t use tanks to roll over protesting students, does it?

Superpower of what? Economic –yes! Military? Errrr… is it necessary?

I am not familiar with the political scene in Europe AT ALL, but I always thought the aim of forming a European Union led by the French and Germans was to use trade and interactions between civilians to break down national barriers in order to maintain peace among neighboring countries.

At first England hesitated to hop in partly because in the 90s the English economies (U.S., Canada, Australia and England) experienced the most growths among developed countries. I remembered I had read somewhere that the economy of German or France alone was much smaller than Japan’s. I think it’s smart for them to recognize the power of collectivism.

Asian Union? Maybe in the next millennium…

It is very noble for the Europeans to come up with such a concept as the European Union. Asian countries… errr… how long did it take them to adopt a parliamentary system? I don’t know much about history, but it seemed that these countries were forced to take up a constitutional system or something. Why couldn’t they think of that earlier? Maybe they thought it was an honor to be the servant of a lord or an emperor?

Countries like these don’t have major problems copying the science and technology of advanced democratic countries. But to copy the political philosophy of the E.U.? It involves a lot of thinking and analyzing… and an open mind. Liberal thinking under the educational system in East Asia is not emphasized as much as in Europe, is it?

Hmmm… I think it is easier to teach people Calculus, Chemistry, and Biology than to teach people how to think, although several Asian countries’ governments are pretty good at teaching their people to hate their neighbors. Or maybe they already hate one anther? Then it will be such a challenge for their governments to teach them how to love their neighbors. lol

TimF
25-07-04, 22:40
Where are the french chicken shits now? It's pretty bad that they are affraid of an army that is not even in like the top ten in power. That is one thing i can say about the US is we never chickened out. Sorry didn't mean to offend anyone.

I would like to appologize for this comment I was inconsiderate of others feelings when I poped off at the mouth. If you could forgive me I would appreiciate it if not I understand.

Duo
26-07-04, 00:06
behind their prides.

Arm race between EU and US?

Not very likely… Unlike China, the European Union doesn’t use tanks to roll over protesting students, does it?

Superpower of what? Economic –yes! Military? Errrr… is it necessary?

I am not familiar with the political scene in Europe AT ALL, but I always thought the aim of forming a European Union led by the French and Germans was to use trade and interactions between civilians to break down national barriers in order to maintain peace among neighboring countries.

At first England hesitated to hop in partly because in the 90s the English economies (U.S., Canada, Australia and England) experienced the most growths among developed countries. I remembered I had read somewhere that the economy of German or France alone was much smaller than Japan’s. I think it’s smart for them to recognize the power of collectivism.

Asian Union? Maybe in the next millennium…

It is very noble for the Europeans to come up with such a concept as the European Union. Asian countries… errr… how long did it take them to adopt a parliamentary system? I don’t know much about history, but it seemed that these countries were forced to take up a constitutional system or something. Why couldn’t they think of that earlier? Maybe they thought it was an honor to be the servant of a lord or an emperor?

Countries like these don’t have major problems copying the science and technology of advanced democratic countries. But to copy the political philosophy of the E.U.? It involves a lot of thinking and analyzing… and an open mind. Liberal thinking under the educational system in East Asia is not emphasized as much as in Europe, is it?

Hmmm… I think it is easier to teach people Calculus, Chemistry, and Biology than to teach people how to think, although several Asian countries’ governments are pretty good at teaching their people to hate their neighbors. Or maybe they already hate one anther? Then it will be such a challenge for their governments to teach them how to love their neighbors. lol

Actually the concept of an united Europe has existed since a while back ago. I can remember of the early 1800's where czar Alexander wanted such an union. I agree that Europe doesnt need to militirize to become a superpower. Economics today persuade more than weapons.

Wang
26-07-04, 02:16
Asian Union? Maybe in the next millennium…


East Asian Union this century.

kara
26-07-04, 06:24
China is larger than EU in many aspects. We can regard China itself as Asian Union in my opinion.

China ≒ EU
China+ Mongolia, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand etc ≒ EU + Canada, Russia, Israel, Egypt, Argentina, etc

Wang
26-07-04, 09:40
China is larger than EU in many aspects.

Yes and overpopulated and very poor. :D :D

Duo
28-07-04, 22:03
Despite the economic factor, I think the EU could conduct a much better foreign policy agena than the US. The main factors of this are that the EU has leaders that know the "world" and is not hostage to certain powerful lobbies. It will rarely mix domestic influence with foreign policy.