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View Full Version : Do you hate non-developed countries? - Your opinion



Mr. Just-A-Guy
22-09-04, 22:05
Hi. I´m a portuguese-speaking brazlian living in brazil. I don´t have a wish to move to any country in this world (only to visit some).

First of all I just want to see your opinions.
Recently I was thinking about what people from developed countries would think about them.

It´s true that mass continental immigration makes a terrible image from these countries, but ignoring that what do you think?

Lina Inverse
22-09-04, 22:17
I see absolutely no reason to hate non-developed countries.

Mr. Just-A-Guy
22-09-04, 22:19
Here in Brazil, we have unequal income distribution (like, in 1999 53 milion people were clasified as 'poor'), social problems, etc.
I don´t like my country´s culture, the culture itself is pretty mixed (portuguese, africans, ameridians, and even JAPANESE). Sometimes I get mad about the people too, but there are really amazing places here, like beautiful beaches, places with vast natural resources, etc.
And in big cities like Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro and Belo Horizonte (the last one where I´m from) in some places we can find lots of similiar structures like in developed countries.

I´ve never been in any other country (I only visited USA once), but I think that the situation of them is similar from here. Maybe some in worse situation like Cuba or Colombia?

Legato
23-09-04, 00:44
I think developping countries (there is no such thing as a non-developped country IMO) can be irritating. It's sometimes sad to see how they develop, Brazil for example has something like 95% of the wealth held by the top 1% percent of the population and they also cut the forest by the acres when it could be avoided or done in better ways. China has the same problem, they destroy many things with projects like the biggest dam in the world and the population is very unequal... But hate thhese countries for that? No way, I think it's mainly the developped countries' fault. First with their colonies which exploited these countries and left them in chaos and now they still have some power over these weaker countries. They control the prices of the exported products with stock markets over which the country selling the product has no control. The send their companies there to exploit the cheap labor and take away the ressources that could be used for a healthy native company. The list goes on, even the governments, especially in Latin America, are controlled by superpowers (points to the US) so can we really blame these countries? They have a lot of room for improvement but still I think the developped countries which waste so much are more to blame for ignoring everything that is not in their interest. Moreover I'd say developping are very important for the future because they still have a great potential but both them and us have to make the effort before it's too late and everything is wasted by irresponsible, too fast development.

Hachiko
27-09-04, 18:06
No, unless they are destroying the environment around them for profit to corporations from the first world without making up for it. Of course, that would be just about every third-world nation... :? :souka: :?

Maciamo
28-09-04, 03:03
Do you mean hate the countries (government or land itself ?) or the people, or the consequences of actions made by the people and government (eg. environmental destruction, emigration, crime, etc.) ?

Lina Inverse
28-09-04, 03:06
No, unless they are destroying the environment around them for profit to corporations from the first world without making up for it. Of course, that would be just about every third-world nation... :? :souka: :?
That's true for the US as well who is now drilling for oil in nature preservates and the likes :okashii:

Hachiko
28-09-04, 07:15
Do you mean hate the countries (government or land itself ?) or the people, or the consequences of actions made by the people and government (eg. environmental destruction, emigration, crime, etc.) ?

The second option, of course.

RockLee
28-09-04, 12:33
I don't hate those countries...but I hate the state the ppl have to live in !!! The Rich have all, the poor have nothing...

Miss_apollo7
28-09-04, 20:49
"Hate" is a very strong word for me...So, to answer the question: No, I don't 'hate' non-developed countries, I don't want to live in them permanently either.
About governments in some non-developed countries, I'd say that some governments in non-developed countries are not my taste, as some are corrupt (I am mostly thinking of some African governments). However, I would not use the word "hate", but more "not supporter of" in the context of governments.

ippolito
28-09-04, 21:08
Simona&Simona are free and safe coming out from Iraq

hirobumi
17-10-04, 19:22
"america is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilisation in between" O.Wilde

digicross
22-10-04, 03:09
Hmmm... The term often changes through time, are you talking about

Third World -> Developing -> Under developed -> Non developed ?


It should be noted that the questions, what is the definition of 'develop'? Remember, for all we know, there's a plan for world domination and that when a particular area got dominated, it get the stamp 'developed', and to those that haven't been dominated... well, you get the idea.

we certainly knew that China was already conquered, at least for its big cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Guangzhou, and so on). While Guilin I seen to be very safe from domination, the local guide mentioned that the area is where its economy is the last in line of all the other areas, that's why I know it was relatively safe from 'them'.

Personally, from the way I looked it, the better its "Public Transportation" is, the more likely that it was already dominated. In short, every cities in the world that have a subway/metro/etc, chances it already on its way to domination.

Strangely, there's one metropolis/megalopolis in the world that seems to have no subway at all, it somehow has an antibody of its that resist the development of subway, could it be that the world will find its saviour there?

Anyway. If you lived in an area that is classified as 'under developed country', just be thankful, that label means that 'your ass isn't mine... yet.'

And if the mass media and non profit organizations said that one area is pretty bad (crimes, poverty, social unrest, and so on), it just mean that, 'until we get that one, we will kept saying that is bad.'



As for governments of under developed countries.

Well... Governments (both developing and under developed) around the world are owned by the same group of people.

Why do you think that there are elections around the world in 2004? The people in charge want to change the managers/Presidents/Prime Ministers/etc (though actors are)!

So if you see one government attacking another government, either verbally, sanctions, military actions, and so on.

That's only a play. Just sit back and watch the play if you like.

If you see one government doing mean things to its people and so on. That's only play to enrage you, just be quiet and enjoyed the play or just stay away from it, since if you participated, you will be the one who were played.



As for Mr. Just-A-Guy's comment.

Well... You should travel more, I find that the most uplifting experience one could get in becoming more patriotic and loving your own country is to travel around the world.

I recently just arrived back from China, and now I know on why my ancestors moved from China. Not that there's anything wrong in living in China (just now it would become more harder to live there), but now I know that the place I currently live is the best, but then again, that's just me.

The effect is much more stronger on my father though, who has seen the world a lot ever since he was a child.

Anyway. Since you live in South America, maybe you should try places like Argentina and so on. From what my father said, Argentina seems to have a very good place to get beef steaks, which is quite nice if you're a meat eater.



As for unequal income distribution.

That's life, some get more, other get less. There's no such thing as everyone get equal share.

Of course, statistics are always created and manipulated by ones who wanted to propagandize their ways, so disregard every statistics.

bossel
22-10-04, 03:29
for all we know, there's a plan for world domination
I don't know, could you enlighten me? Who are these "them" that you ever so often talk about?



Not that there's anything wrong in living in China (just now it would become more harder to live there)
Strange. The Chinese I know tell me the exact contrary. In many parts of China it's getting better.

Winter
22-10-04, 04:09
After reading through this thread, I couldnt get the image of about 30 monkey 'authors' typing on 30 type-writers, in an attempt at creating something decent.

Think about it.

sgt. Pepper
31-10-04, 02:03
Why would i hate non-developed countries?

TwistedMac
31-10-04, 03:45
Why would i hate non-developed countries?
oh, come on. we're swedes, we hate them because they're not worth as much as we are and they smell bad!...

King of Tokyo
31-10-04, 04:12
Oh I definitely do. Who do they think they are being undeveloped? Why don't they obtain some money? Some nerve they have..

TwistedMac
31-10-04, 06:33
Why don't they obtain some money?
yeah, sounds pretty suspicious to me!..

You know they must be up to something else with that time they obviously don't spend gathering riches!

caniving bastards.

btw. on a slightly serious note, In Sweden we call them U-countries.
It used to stand for "Under-developed countries" (well, the swedish translation of that... "underutvecklat land") but then in the early nineties when that politically correct wave swept across the world they decided to go "nono.. that's not what it is.. what we meant was uhm... uhm.... 'developing countries'!" which in swedish is "utvecklings land" so we can still call it U-country (U-land) but it doesn't stand for the same thing anymore...

anyone for a bowl of ridiculous?

sgt. Pepper
31-10-04, 20:31
I want one. :)

Duo
31-10-04, 20:46
Great, even Sweden makes fun of us :mad: ----------> kiddin :p

Seriously though,

Discrimination here in Europe is sometimes outrageous against eastern european countries. All the nicknames, weird reputations, and stuff like that just really pisses me off. Stupid develeped western europe :okashii: -----:blush:

To this day I still hold a negative view of Austria although I only was there once for a couple of hours cuz i had to change planes, and this Die Hard villain Hans look alike guy, cheked and double checked my family's passports cuz I guess we looked suspicious :okashii:, but most likely cuz we had Albanian passports. I mean sure there are regulations and stuff, but sometimes europe just goes overboard.

Sometimes I just get so frustrated with this moral and superior attitude that Western Europe exerts on the other half of the continent as if they are the perfect model to follow. I mean I hope that ppl like this in western europe who look down on us other less fortunate europeans realize how lukcy they were that communism didn't come into power in their country.

The thing I hate the most is when some bs filled EU mp's come to us and act all superior and cool and tell our governmetns what do and and how and etc, especially this arrogant German mp Doris Pack :okashii:

I am for a united europe, but if the western countries dont give up this inhereted idea that they have developed about their higher morality and superiority, I don't see it happening.

@ you ppl who don't like developeING countries ,
It's thanks to them that are being taken advantage of by the DevelopED countries that you are able to keep the standard of living you have. So think twice about it :souka:

Elizabeth
31-10-04, 22:43
"Hate" is a very strong word for me...So, to answer the question: No, I don't 'hate' non-developed countries, I don't want to live in them permanently either.
About governments in some non-developed countries, I'd say that some governments in non-developed countries are not my taste, as some are corrupt (I am mostly thinking of some African governments). However, I would not use the word "hate", but more "not supporter of" in the context of governments.
I don't know why everyone is so quick to cite Africa in these contexts. :? Last years annual ranking from Transparency International, the leading non-governmental organization in the fight against corruption for instance actually places 5 Asian countries in the bottom ten for corruption (Azerbaijan, Georgia, Tajikisan, Myanmar, Bangladesh) while only 3 African (Nigeria, Cameroon, and Angola) nations are represented. And it's an even more disproportionate percentage considering the number on each continent (Africa, 54, Asia, 37). :okashii:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html

bossel
01-11-04, 06:27
I don't know why everyone is so quick to cite Africa in these contexts.
Simply because large parts of Africa are hotbeds of corruption. That doesn't mean that there isn't corruption anywhere else.



And it's an even more disproportionate percentage considering the number on each continent (Africa, 54, Asia, 37). :okashii:
You missed the point that only 133 countries are included in the survey because "of the absence of reliable data." Almost half of all African countries are not included (to be exact, 25: Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, DR Congo, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Lesotho, Liberia, Mauritania, Niger, Rwanda, São Tomé and Príncipe, Seychelles, Somalia, Swaziland, Togo, Western Sahara). While only 11 Asian countries are missing (to be exact: Afghanistan , Bhutan, Brunei, Cambodia, East Timor, Laos, Maldives, Mongolia, Nepal, North Korea, Turkmenistan).

You are right, everything is relative, but before you draw conclusions, you have to look a bit deeper into the proportions. & you should use the right numbers, depending on the list you use, Asia has between 47 & 52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia#Population_density) countries (the latter includes eg. HongKong & Russia), not 37.
Luckily, tomorrow is a bank holiday here, hence I had some time to spend.

BTW, I would have never considered Georgia & Azerbaijan as Asian, but as European. I looked it up though & obviously, since they lie on what is considered the borderline between Asia & Europe, this is not as clear as I thought it is.

Elizabeth
01-11-04, 07:39
You missed the point that only 133 countries are included in the survey because "of the absence of reliable data." Almost half of all African countries are not included (to be exact, 25: Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, DR Congo, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Lesotho, Liberia, Mauritania, Niger, Rwanda, São Tomé and Príncipe, Seychelles, Somalia, Swaziland, Togo, Western Sahara). While only 11 Asian countries are missing (to be exact: Afghanistan , Bhutan, Brunei, Cambodia, East Timor, Laos, Maldives, Mongolia, Nepal, North Korea, Turkmenistan).
I obviously didn't take a lot of time with this. There's probably a much stronger correlation between non- or newly emerging democracies (Haiti, Kenya, Nigeria, Myanmar etc) and corrupt governments than the continent they happen to be on.

canadian_kor
01-11-04, 10:54
Hate a non-developed country? No. Would I want to live in non-developed countries? Hmm...

bossel
02-11-04, 01:57
I obviously didn't take a lot of time with this. There's probably a much stronger correlation between non- or newly emerging democracies (Haiti, Kenya, Nigeria, Myanmar etc) and corrupt governments than the continent they happen to be on.
Then Miss Apollo should have said something like "I am mostly thinking of some governments in non- or newly-emerging democracies" instead of "I am mostly thinking of some African governments"? Wow, that would make language really easier.
Fact is, that corruption is rampant in several parts of Africa, I can't really see your problem with mentioning that.

Elizabeth
02-11-04, 03:05
Then Miss Apollo should have said something like "I am mostly thinking of some governments in non- or newly-emerging democracies" instead of "I am mostly thinking of some African governments"? Wow, that would make language really easier.
Fact is, that corruption is rampant in several parts of Africa, I can't really see your problem with mentioning that.
It isn't wrong or racist or anything, it's just that Africa usually ends up as the symbol for the world's most intractable problems. There's no denying corruption is likely to be more severe or widespread there than any other continent,from the ranks of mid-level civil servants to the private sector onto the highest levels of government. But obviously corruption isn't mostly in Africa, it's in 2/3rds of countries according to that Transparency Intl survey and is strictly a matter of the severe poverty, major wars, and lack of democracy there rather than anything to do with being African per se. :relief:

bossel
02-11-04, 05:33
It isn't wrong or racist or anything, it's just that Africa usually ends up as the symbol for the world's most intractable problems.
I see what you mean, stereotypes are usually a bit problematic. But in this case the core of truth inside that stereotype is so large, that we can actually use it. Although I wouldn't have come up with some African states as prime examples for corruption myself. I probably would have thought of Russia (shared rank 86) in that regard. Simply because that's the country mostly in the news here when it is about corruption.

Examples or stereotypes do not take away the truth that corruption is pretty much everywhere, though.

smig
16-11-04, 13:43
Yep, Hate is an extremely strong word. I don't understand why a thinking person would 'hate' a developing country, presumably on the basis that it is developing... What I think people hate/dislike are unrepresentative, corrupt, dictatorial governments. Because not only do they make it hard for everyone living in the country, it makes contact with developed countries difficult: and that means not only tourism (=$$) but also business contact and investment. Anyone want to go on a safari in Zimbabwe?

Canek
22-03-11, 01:03
now, this really is an offensive thread...

if latin america and africa are non-developed regions is just because we were exploited and sacked by the europeans for centuries. you are responsibles for our current situation. you have no right to hate us. it should be the opposite most likely... and as a matter of fact that's what happens. europeans are still extremely disliked in africa and latin america.

sparkey
22-03-11, 02:05
now, this really is an offensive thread...

if latin america and africa are non-developed regions is just because we were exploited and sacked by the europeans for centuries. you are responsibles for our current situation. you have no right to hate us. it should be the opposite most likely... and as a matter of fact that's what happens. europeans are still extremely disliked in africa and latin america.

Hmm... reading through this old thread, it doesn't look like anybody was saying that they hate non-developed countries. In fact, people questioned the question and either said "no" or gave a nuanced response about something they disliked about non-developed countries.

I don't tend to harbor ill will toward any country, per se. Perhaps I dislike some current governments, but I see potential in most countries. I can understand historical antipathy coming from non-developed nations toward Europe, but I question how much relevance it holds today. Europe trades with and gives foreign aid to many of the non-developed nations, after all. The only remaining point of serious contention I see is with regard to recent military action.

Canek
22-03-11, 10:04
false. europe is still exploiting africa and latin american with their multi-nationals.

they don't want more competition... they want us to be underveloped, so that we can be their puppet.

edao
22-03-11, 13:05
"GRRRR, why won't you develop! You make me so angry!":angry:

That's generally what ever westerner thinks when they get out of bed in the morning. We get up grab the clip board of undeveloped countries and watch the news to see if we can tick any off them off the list. Just saying out loud to ourselves "develop, develop, you kow you want to" :grin:

Canek
22-03-11, 16:03
i wouldn't have used the world hate, but disdain.

you can make jokes about it edao but you can't argue against this: multinationals from the developed world (esp. usa and spain) have done nothing but exploit all over latin america, our lands, our natural resources, our people... they want us to open our frontiers to their capitals but when we want them to be receptive with our migrants, all they do is make xenophobic laws. what should we feel about that?

LeBrok
22-03-11, 17:20
"GRRRR, why won't you develop! You make me so angry!":angry:

That's generally what ever westerner thinks when they get out of bed in the morning. We get up grab the clip board of undeveloped countries and watch the news to see if we can tick any off them off the list. Just saying out loud to ourselves "develop, develop, you kow you want to" :grin:

Exactly my dream too! Develop, develop, develop quickly.

After sucking dry China by the west, for decades, finally it help them and they are developing quickly now, so is India and rest of far east. :grin:

Canek stop whining about the west, ask china, Singapore, S Korea, Hong Kong, Japan how they finally did this. Mind that most of them were colonized too in the past.
You can do that too, we wish you well.

I thought Chile was quite developed?

sparkey
22-03-11, 17:29
i wouldn't have used the world hate, but disdain.

you can make jokes about it edao but you can't argue against this: multinationals from the developed world (esp. usa and spain) have done nothing but exploit all over latin america, our lands, our natural resources, our people... they want us to open our frontiers to their capitals but when we want them to be receptive with our migrants, all they do is make xenophobic laws. what should we feel about that?

Multinationals have done some exploiting of natural resources, certainly, but the primary responsibility for the protection of those falls on the developing countries' governments. It is also the responsibility of the governments to determine whether or not to allow multinationals to operate within their borders, and, not surprisingly, most make the good decision to allow them to. The net effect of multinationals operating and selling products within a country on employment, per capita GDP, and cost of living are almost universally positive. Usually, the criticism of multinationals comes from two directions: either they are supposedly mistreating workers, or they are forcing a dependence on the population. And although abuse of the workforce does occur, it is relatively uncommon, and in almost all cases, the workers are better off than if they had not accepted work with the corporation. Similarly, we find the opposite of dependency theory true--countries that allow multinationals to operate are more likely to generate their own legitimate competitors.

Besides, why would any of this lead to disdain on the end of the developed nations?

Canek
22-03-11, 18:03
lebrok, china, india and the rest of asia developed??? there are millions of people in all these countries being exploted by foreign multinationals. don't look only at the economic stats... they don't always show the quality of life and the well-being of a country.

i am not chilean and i don't reside in chile either. i'm just paying a little tribute to a brother country which suffered a terrible catastrophe the past year.

chile has basically the same problem that china (but to a less degree), unfortunatly a lot of chileans have been brainwashed with the "chile is the england of south america" propaganda.

Canek
22-03-11, 18:03
Besides, why would any of this lead to disdain on the end of the developed nations?

it's not a cause, it's a consequence.

Antigone
22-03-11, 18:37
Well I agree that the west has exploited Africa and S America for a long time but I also think they themselves need to take some of the blame, as it is their corrupt governments that have allowed the exploitation.

If they want to be taken seriously by the west they need to get rid of any chips on shoulders, stop the whinging and whining, get rid of corruption, get decent governance and start taking responsibilty for themselves instead of blaming everything on others. As has already been pointed out, many in Asia have done it and done it brilliantly, and are well respected for it.

Canek
23-03-11, 12:28
our goverments can't do anything against more powerful countries... they are forced to accept the capitals of the corrupt multinationals from the developed world

(i explained the case of asia already, i'm not going to repeat again)

Antigone
23-03-11, 13:30
No-one is denying that multinationals are corrupt, nor that they exploit but perhaps you should explain exactly how countries are forced to accept them against their will.

Canek
23-03-11, 14:09
developed countries have more militar and mediatic power than us... nothing more need to be explained.

and then there are the CIA, FBI... and other organizations that act like a mafia group in many cases.

edao
23-03-11, 15:55
i am not chilean and i don't reside in chile either. i'm just paying a little tribute to a brother country which suffered a terrible catastrophe the past year.


Are you from Mexico?:thinking:

LeBrok
23-03-11, 17:29
It has to be our Lenaert!

edao
23-03-11, 17:52
you can make jokes about it edao but you can't argue against this: multinationals from the developed world (esp. usa and spain) have done nothing but exploit all over latin america, our lands, our natural resources, our people... they want us to open our frontiers to their capitals but when we want them to be receptive with our migrants, all they do is make xenophobic laws. what should we feel about that?

The world is a competitive place. There are limited resources to go round and peope have to compete for them. Each coutry has to take responsibility for its own circumstances, if you are being exploited by someone stop them. If you have put yourself in a position to be exploited you have to take some responsibility for allowing it to happen.

Since the global economic crash western living standards have taken a hit, in Europe governments are trying to balance their finances. What you don't hear alot of is people blaming China or America, you hear people talking about how we need to be more proactive raise our standards, work harder and longer.

At the end of the day it comes down to taking responsibilty for your own destiny, you can stand their and blame everyone for your situation or you can go do something about it.

If you are from Mexico I hear you are experiencing some excellent economic growth as is Brasil. Looks like big corporate exploitation is finally paying off. :grin:

edao
23-03-11, 17:59
On the note of taking responsibility, it is for this very reason that I think western action in Libya is wrong. Responsibility for the future of Libya is for the Libyans let them pay whatever price they see fit to mould their country as they see fit. The lives and prospertiy of Libyians is not the responsibility of America, France and the UK.

Libyan newsreader brandishes rifle on television (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12815687)

Canek
23-03-11, 18:07
economic statics don't show the well-being of a population... you are delusional if you think people in india, brasil or mexico are improving their life quality thanks to capitalism.


if you are being exploited by someone stop them

read my previous post... is difficulto to stop them when they have the best armies, the most influencial media and organizations like CIA or FBI working in favour of capitalism.

LeBrok
24-03-11, 03:41
Hey Leneart, how was the standard of living in Aztec or Inca empire? How long the people live on average?
Oh, not too long by our standards?
Well, the CIA and FBI must have been busy ruining their lives back then too, lol. Oh, and capitalism too, almost forgot.

Canek
29-03-11, 18:00
:rolleyes2:

life was hard for eveyone in those times. and obviously nobody by then lived so long as us today.

american imperialism have been messing around in latam for decades: look chile/pinochet, nicaragua, cuba... thousands of innocent dead.

they just have bring pain and poverty to latam. we would be more wealthy without them.

cubans have a better medical coverage than americans. oh yes, but cubans don't have beautiful skycrapers. :rolleyes2:

Grubbe
01-06-13, 22:43
"Hatred" or "love" are feelings connected to things I am strongly interested in for some reason. I am with a few exceptions not that interested in countries outside Europe, so why should I want to waste my time hating them?

errantbit
03-10-13, 18:02
There's much more hate flowing in the underdeveloped countries towards the first world than the opposite.And Canek makes a good case for it.

wlkwos
14-05-15, 23:24
No. Why hate?