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mecharmor23
14-11-04, 02:16
I think xenophobia is a world wide problem not just Japan. If you go to google.com and search the terms "anti-multiculturalism" you will find that it is becoming an increasing problem outside of the Asian continent.

In north america, there is a rising problem with groups made by Ernst Zundel, Paul Fromm, Ingrid Rimland are just a few who want their "white-racial-superiority" back. Even these guys are blaming all the crime on foreigners.

Some people believe that global isolationism and homogenous societies are the key to solving economic problems. I have been observing through many variety of forums and it appears that more and more people from western societies are supporting this idea.

I know immigration might be an issue in some countries but I can't see how it is the fault of an entire race. Paul Fromm, a canadian who heads a group called CAFE '"canadian association for freedom of expression" or canadafirst.net seems to believe that multiculturalism is the cause of racial prejudice. I don't know if it is right or wrong though.
You can find the guys website at www.paulfromm.com

Some people in the western culture seems to be afraid of the Asian culture. They don't want the european culture to become forgotten or the west to become the east.

Xenophobia comes from both sides actually. There seems to be an increasing fear amongst the western culture. The current recession might turn to depression and then war.

What are your opinions. I support multiculturalism because I am raised on that idea and have friends from just about every country. If you are against multiculturalism then I would like to know why. I don't support anyone that I have named in my post, as I only accidently bumped into their sites when I am researching on economic and population statistics around the world.

Is multiculturalism good or bad?

Your opinions are greatly appreicated.

silver angel
14-11-04, 04:21
That PaulFromm site made me sick to my stomach. I don't really know what else to say...

Dream Time
14-11-04, 07:33
I support multiculturalism, I believe that by understanding different cultures and communicating people of different cultures,would help to reduce conflicts,and wars.

but then, although I am a westernized Asian guy, somewhere in me I want to preserve my culture

I was reading some article in a magazine,an English guy,who is into buying and selling arts by Chinese artists,
he asked a question : 'where are the buildings from the Tong,Sung kingdoms? the most ancient buildings are in Japan and India,they are keeping them so well, but you Chinese have destroyed all those buildings'

some places in China are becoming more and more western
there are some Asians who tries so hard to be white,to be black,why can't we just be ourselves?

smig
16-11-04, 14:29
The idea that there is such a thing as a mono culture is a load of crap
Here's some street grafitti i saw in Europe (paraphrased, = can't remember exactly)
Your numerals are Arabic
Your letters are Roman
Your shoes come from Indonesia
You eat apricots from Turkey and oranges from Israel
Your system of government comes from Greece
Your religion comes from Palestine.
Now tell me that you're living in a mono culture

Ghost
29-11-04, 02:01
I support multiculturalism though it doesnt matter. I will be killed by a race war anyways, I am seeing traces of a civil war brewing here wether they(goverment) will admit it or not, The whole anti-immagrant and destiny church thing. It makes me miss the safty of the states.

Haivart
29-11-04, 23:54
I'd look at what he considers ancient. The Forbidden City is older than the Taj Mahal, or many of the other Mogul buildings; and those aren't ancient. In India, "ancient" would mean Vedic or Saraswati (Harappan), imo, (at least in Northern India) and there's not much of that because most of it was built of wood.

As for multiculturalism, it's what I do (I work with books in different languages and from different places), and I learn a lot and believe I'm a better person because of it.



I was reading some article in a magazine,an English guy,who is into buying and selling arts by Chinese artists,
he asked a question : 'where are the buildings from the Tong,Sung kingdoms? the most ancient buildings are in Japan and India,they are keeping them so well, but you Chinese have destroyed all those buildings'

babar-san
02-12-04, 00:11
i support mutli-culturalism, but not illegal imagration. have you ever seen amerasian babies? their so cute!!!!!

mad pierrot
02-12-04, 00:57
Of course multi-culturalism is important. People like PaulFromm are, well, morons. The best way to overcome sentiments like his? Through education, pure and simple. And, I think the best way to educate someone about other cultures is to immerse them into it, a.k.a, travel! I think it's that lack of international experience that is the biggest barrier in Amercia. Too many American have never been outside their country, and it skews their views, especially on foreign policy. What are those rumors floating around that Prez Bush never had a passport before he was elected? This is less of a problem in major cities in the US, say like NY, Chicago, and LA. (Ironically counties that voted for Kerry as well.) Some of this is, of course, not completely their fault. International travel is expensive, and many people can't afford it. Not to mention America's geography gets in the way. (Fly in a plane for 8 hourse, cross the continent, and people still speak English and shop at Walmart...)

You Europeans are so lucky.....

:p :relief:

SkippyDaStudent85
02-12-04, 07:05
I support multiculturalism, I believe that by understanding different cultures and communicating people of different cultures,would help to reduce conflicts,and wars.

I've got to agree with you on this one Dream Time... I'm all for multiculturalism, as long as every culture in the mix has fair and equal opportunities

And don't forget Matt Hale, the racist jerk who littered my best friend's neighborhood (where several different ethnicities live) with white-supremacy propaganda... yeah, that guy who tried to have that one judge killed in Chicago...

Carth
24-12-04, 09:08
I support multicultarism because with it we can get a better understanding of how each and every single one of us are uniquely different.

My eyes can see a rising problem with too much westernization. In particular in India and Afghanistan, where maybe in ten years when those nations become extremely prominent, their culture might have been influenced under the western wing.

Besides, true freedom comes in the form that all of us as people can live according to our beliefs.

^ lynx ^
15-04-10, 13:43
I support selective multi-culturalism. Sadly, not all cultures in this world are ready to live along with others.

Cambrius (The Red)
15-04-10, 14:03
Multiculturalism is fine in principal. We can all learn and advance as human beings through direct exposure to cultures and people different from our own. However, I do not support large scale Third World immigration to Western countries. The problems that come with such are potentially extreme.

edao
15-04-10, 22:35
Well I would argue that on a basic level no one is for multi culturalism.

Why?
If you look at your friends, and someone asked you why are these people your friends? You might say we have alot in common we share similar interests.

A fundamental truth of human nature is we like people who are like us, we like predictability and familiarity. We choose our friends on this basis, for that to work on a cultural level youwould require a certain level of intergration.

From my experience it doesn't work, either people intergrate into a new indenitty, the immigrants blend into the native culture or you get pockets of immigrants maintaining their own customs cut off from social activity in the mainstream.

Neander
21-04-10, 09:10
It's stupidity.

China is ofr chinese, England for englishmen, Arabia for arabians.

Who want to see, and enjoy chinese culture, the humanity has a job called "tourism". Travel by plane, go there and enjoy. We don't need another culture in our places.

Every country has its own history and culture and must continue with that.

Gwyllgi
21-04-10, 09:44
To try to create a multi-cultural nation and expect a stable thing to emerge is nonsense.

To start with the use of the word “culture” in such a context is wrong because the dimensions attributed to “culture” extend deeply into those of nationality.

Culture, and even then the word should be lifestyle, when it is restricted to those things associated with custom and practice, diet, dress, diet, and traditions are entirely reasonable things to be introduced into a nation by immigration.

Such things usually either become lost after a couple of generations or if beneficial or valuable to the host nation get taken up in short order.

On the other hand when a nationality is what is involved, and a host nation is expected to accept the creation of a group of people who demand to retain their own nationality within a host nation then that is wrong.

If they refuse to integrate with the host nation, and over a period of time assume the nationality of the host, including all that goes with it, then that is wrong.

That is not becoming multi-cultural, that is becoming colonised, and to see the effects of colonisation it is only necessary to look at history.

Multi-ethnic, fine. Multi lifestyle, fine, at least up to the point that the ‘new’ lifestyle clashes adversely with that of the host, when it is NOT fine,

But multi national , aka multi-cultural? Absolutely NOT fine. It is a recipe for disaster.

Gwyllgi
21-04-10, 09:51
It's stupidity.

China is ofr chinese, England for englishmen, Arabia for arabians.

Who want to see, and enjoy chinese culture, the humanity has a job called "tourism". Travel by plane, go there and enjoy. We don't need another culture in our places.

Every country has its own history and culture and must continue with that.

What you describe is tribalism.

We in Europe grew out of that years ago.

It's an attitude that is contrary to the spirit of the EU and real Europeans.

Keep in mind that it takes a damm site more than joining us in the EU by having you state accepted in order to be a European.

Keep your lifestyles, keep your traditions, but become a part of the gestalt that is the EU.

And "gestalt" is the perfect word to describe where we are going.

LeBrok
21-04-10, 16:34
I think Singapore is the best example of thriving multiculturalism.

Wilhelm
21-04-10, 16:46
I don't think what we need is multiculturalism. I don't like multiculturalism. Basically I want to keep my culture, language, customs, traditions, and even ethnicity. But what we have is not a 'natural' multiculturalism, but a 'forced' multiculturalism, due to globalization, mass immigration, etc.

Cambrius (The Red)
21-04-10, 16:55
I don't think what we need is multiculturalism. I don't like multiculturalism. Basically I want to keep my culture, language, customs, traditions, and even ethnicity. But what we have is not a 'natural' multiculturalism, but a 'forced' multiculturalism, due to globalization, mass immigration, etc.

...and "forced" multiculturalism can bring with it serious social disequilibrium.

Invictus_88
21-04-10, 22:30
What you describe is tribalism.

We in Europe grew out of that years ago.

It's an attitude that is contrary to the spirit of the EU and real Europeans.

Keep in mind that it takes a damm site more than joining us in the EU by having you state accepted in order to be a European.
Keep your lifestyles, keep your traditions, but become a part of the gestalt that is the EU.
And "gestalt" is the perfect word to describe where we are going.
Some in Europe may have, but Wales emphatically has not.

LeBrok
22-04-10, 02:40
...and "forced" multiculturalism can bring with it serious social disequilibrium.

Oh, but your are a product (me too) of multiculturalism of the past. How many nations lived in Iberia that we have a records of? Celts, Romans, Vandals...., I'm pretty sure you can finish the list better than I.
You wouldn't be what you are now if not the multiculturalism of the past. And I believe that all of them were forced!
Do you hate yourself for this? I'm pretty sure you are a proud Iberian, though you are different than inhabitants 3 000 or 2 000 years ago. I'm sure if your forebears could get up and see Iberia these days they would be disgusted. Somewhat different looking people, different gods, different language, different culture, you name it, even food tastes different. They would love economic progress I guess, but the rest a big disgrace, and desecration of their land. After back from the future they would have a hell of a hard time dieing for their country, culture and gods. Stuff that won't exist in short future.


I agree that if we have a choice of mingling with other cultures we should pick ones that benefit ours and don't create conflicts.

Wilhelm
22-04-10, 03:28
Oh, but your are a product (me too) of multiculturalism of the past. How many nations lived in Iberia that we have a records of? Celts, Romans, Vandals...., I'm pretty sure you can finish the list better than I.
You wouldn't be what you are now if not the multiculturalism of the past. And I believe that all of them were forced!
Do you hate yourself for this? I'm pretty sure you are a proud Iberian, though you are different than inhabitants 3 000 or 2 000 years ago. I'm sure if your forebears could get up and see Iberia these days they would be disgusted. Somewhat different looking people, different gods, different language, different culture, you name it, even food tastes different. They would love economic progress I guess, but the rest a big disgrace, and desecration of their land. After back from the future they would have a hell of a hard time dieing for their country, culture and gods. Stuff that won't exist in short future.
yes, different cultures but all european, similar and compatible..

Cambrius (The Red)
22-04-10, 05:21
Oh, but your are a product (me too) of multiculturalism of the past. How many nations lived in Iberia that we have a records of? Celts, Romans, Vandals...., I'm pretty sure you can finish the list better than I.
You wouldn't be what you are now if not the multiculturalism of the past. And I believe that all of them were forced!
Do you hate yourself for this? I'm pretty sure you are a proud Iberian, though you are different than inhabitants 3 000 or 2 000 years ago. I'm sure if your forebears could get up and see Iberia these days they would be disgusted. Somewhat different looking people, different gods, different language, different culture, you name it, even food tastes different. They would love economic progress I guess, but the rest a big disgrace, and desecration of their land. After back from the future they would have a hell of a hard time dieing for their country, culture and gods. Stuff that won't exist in short future.


I agree that if we have a choice of mingling with other cultures we should pick ones that benefit ours and don't create conflicts.

I'm quite certain you would not want the floodgates opened in your country for every poorly educated, unskilled Third World person, many of whom will probably not assimilate very well? Talk about potential for social disequilibrium...

Take a close look at what is transpiring in Western Europe and the United States. I reside in both sides of the pond and can tell you that we are flirting with disaster. There are so many illegals and other dubious types floating around that it feels overwhelming sometimes.

I don't have a problem with multiculturalism but we must take a realistic approach concerning the types of people that are allowed in to Western countries. Educated, skilled persons should be favored, with Europeans given priority, provided they have some reasonable talent to offer.

LeBrok
22-04-10, 06:20
I'm quite certain you would not want the floodgates opened in your country for every poorly educated, unskilled Third World person, many of whom will probably not assimilate very well? Talk about potential for social disequilibrium...

Take a close look at what is transpiring in Western Europe and the United States. I reside in both sides of the pond and can tell you that we are flirting with disaster. There are so many illegals and other dubious types floating around that it feels overwhelming sometimes.

I don't have a problem with multiculturalism but we must take a realistic approach concerning the types of people that are allowed in to Western countries. Educated, skilled persons should be favored, with Europeans given priority, provided they have some reasonable talent to offer.
Yes, I agree with you.

Gwyllgi
22-04-10, 08:07
Some in Europe may have, but Wales emphatically has not.

Welsh are you?

Or you live in Wales do you?

Or you mix with Welsh people from all walks of life every day do you?

Or is it that you make that claim based on the antipathy that so many Welsh people feel towards a neighbour who has and continues to exploit our land.

A neighbour who buys up our villages and turns them into holiday ghetto’s, full of often trouble makers in Summer and ghost towns for the rest of the year, and that has priced our people out of the housing market in our own land by their actions.

Who has systematically raped our valleys for coal, devastated our mountains for slate, takes our water and charges us more for our own water than the people in England pay.

I remember old relatives of mine dying from “The Dust”, emphysema as a consequence of working in the coal mines.

I remember the dreadful mess surrounding the “Phurnacite” plant at Abercwmboi, a mess that despite the plant having been closed for twenty years remains still as dreadful pollution not only where it was but down the whole of the Cynon valley. And that is just one example of many “souvenirs” the English have left us.

That one so that their towns and cities could have smokeless fuel.

They took our coal, and left US with the smoke. Nice.

No, don’t mistake our dislike of the English as tribalism, it’s down to the actions of the English in our part of Great Britain.

Gwyllgi
22-04-10, 08:08
I think Singapore is the best example of thriving multiculturalism.

Singapore is essentially a city.

Gwyllgi
22-04-10, 08:34
Oh, but your are a product (me too) of multiculturalism of the past. How many nations lived in Iberia that we have a records of? Celts, Romans, Vandals...., I'm pretty sure you can finish the list better than I.


Not so. We are, at least most of us, the result of colonisation or immigration, two very different things.

An immigrant comes to a nation and integrates into that nation bringing with him traditions and practices that will either wither on the vine over a very short period of time or become popular by the people of the nation to which he immigrates. Chinese and Indian restraints are a classic example of this. So not multi-cultural, multi-ethnic and with the benefits such a thing can bring.

But multiculturalism is different. It is colonisation by any other name and colonisation can only have one outcome. Either the colonies are broken down and integration of the colonists takes place or the colonists take over.

There is no third path.

America is the fly in the ointment, and at the same time the prime example of what happens after colonisation takes place.

Because America and to a lesser extent Canada are the consequences of colonisation followed by utter domination f the indigenous people there is an ethos that has emerged that immigration of “new” nationalities into a land and those “new” nationalities being let to develop independently is a good thing.

It is not.

For one thing the immigrants to the US had one aim, exploitation of the land and the indigenous people under a common principle, the “American Dream”. For another the sheer size of the place plus the absence of the indigenous people who had been subjected to genocide and the few survivors in essence caged into “reservations” meant that culture clashes when they did occour had room to dissipate.

And for a third thing with the exception of the Chinese mostly in the West and the former slaves the immigrants all shared a common European identity while the two principle groups who did not were largely powerless and exploited.

But today the US is facing a problem that many people simply do not understand let alone accept that it exists. The US is being re-colonised.

The people who lived American lifestyle with the associated values, ambitions, and principles up to twenty five years ago are now the indigenous people who are facing domination and not resisting it.

Funny when you think about how the Indigenous people who the White colonists faced when they started their invasion so often helped the Whites. Now the wheel has turned and the descendents of those same settlers are doing exactly the same to their colonists.

Nemesis rules not just in Greece eh?

No, Multi–culturalism is not a good thing, it is a disaster waiting to happen and a thing that should be avoided at all costs.

An immigrants should either integrate with the host country, or should not emigrate to the place and people within a country should fight colonisation. If not they “Endeavor to persevere”.

Cambrius (The Red)
22-04-10, 15:09
Welsh are you?

Or you live in Wales do you?

Or you mix with Welsh people from all walks of life every day do you?

Or is it that you make that claim based on the antipathy that so many Welsh people feel towards a neighbour who has and continues to exploit our land.

A neighbour who buys up our villages and turns them into holiday ghetto’s, full of often trouble makers in Summer and ghost towns for the rest of the year, and that has priced our people out of the housing market in our own land by their actions.

Who has systematically raped our valleys for coal, devastated our mountains for slate, takes our water and charges us more for our own water than the people in England pay.

I remember old relatives of mine dying from “The Dust”, emphysema as a consequence of working in the coal mines.

I remember the dreadful mess surrounding the “Phurnacite” plant at Abercwmboi, a mess that despite the plant having been closed for twenty years remains still as dreadful pollution not only where it was but down the whole of the Cynon valley. And that is just one example of many “souvenirs” the English have left us.

That one so that their towns and cities could have smokeless fuel.

They took our coal, and left US with the smoke. Nice.

No, don’t mistake our dislike of the English as tribalism, it’s down to the actions of the English in our part of Great Britain.

God bless the Welsh people. :smile:

LeBrok
22-04-10, 16:39
Gwyllgi, show me any region in Europe rich in coal that didn't went through dirty industrialisation period. Doesn't feel that special anymore, ha?

LeBrok
22-04-10, 17:09
Gwyllgi, doesn't matter if you are wrong or right, or if your concerns of multiculturalism are justified or not, fear of outside influence or new changes is a tribal instinct. Keep in mind that I'm not saying if it's a good thing or not (can be both depending on circumstances), though it might be in a way of future strong EU, but that's I guess is not what you want anyway.

It's true that in most cases multiculturalism is not a beneficial thing. It even could be a main cause that brings empires down. It's also true that the strongest societies are uniform, and united under one religion, law, culture etc.
There are also exaples of successful multicultural sociaties, and this should be analyzed why it is the case, and not discarded to the stinky bucket of all bad multiculturalism.

LeBrok
22-04-10, 17:10
God bless the Welsh people. :smile:
Not very flattering when you say it to the atheist. ;)

Invictus_88
22-04-10, 17:40
Welsh are you?
No.

Or you live in Wales do you?
Most of the time, yes. I'm consequently registered to vote there.

Or you mix with Welsh people from all walks of life every day do you?
I do indeed. From Welsh Assembly Members down to the homeless.

Or is it that you make that claim based on the antipathy that so many Welsh people feel towards a neighbour who has and continues to exploit our land.
Nope, as I have shown.

A neighbour who buys up our villages and turns them into holiday ghetto’s, full of often trouble makers in Summer and ghost towns for the rest of the year, and that has priced our people out of the housing market in our own land by their actions.
If you don't want them to be bought, stop selling them. Take it up with your countrymen who put it on the market, not the people who buy them.

Who has systematically raped our valleys for coal, devastated our mountains for slate, takes our water and charges us more for our own water than the people in England pay.
Most Welsh people I know don't share that attitude. It's heard of, but only because your minority is such a vocal one. There's plenty of coal, plenty of slate, and no lack of mountains. You know this, stop pretending.

I remember old relatives of mine dying from “The Dust”, emphysema as a consequence of working in the coal mines.
Indeed. Mining is a nasty business, and I'm glad the mines have been shut. We agree here.

I remember the dreadful mess surrounding the “Phurnacite” plant at Abercwmboi, a mess that despite the plant having been closed for twenty years remains still as dreadful pollution not only where it was but down the whole of the Cynon valley. And that is just one example of many “souvenirs” the English have left us.
I don't know Abercwmboi specifically, but I'm aware of the pollution in areas of South Wales, and that the Welsh Assembly Government have failed to press changes against Monsanto, whose contravention of laws on toxic waste has put the safety of the local population and environment at risk.

That one so that their towns and cities could have smokeless fuel.
Actually, a fair bit was used in Wales. And in the export market. But either way, it's good that the Welsh economy has moved on since then.

They took our coal, and left US with the smoke. Nice.
Already covered this.

No, don’t mistake our dislike of the English as tribalism, it’s down to the actions of the English in our part of Great Britain.
You're barking up the wrong tree, I'm afraid. Most Welsh know this, and hopefully with more education in Welsh history these unfortunate misconceptions will begin to break down.
I sympathise with your grievances, but I'm under no illusions. I know Wales, I know the Welsh, and I know that the vast majority do not suffer their lives racked with bile and resentment as you do

Gwyllgi
23-04-10, 08:48
And that previous post illustrates precisely why there is so much antipathy towards the English.

Funny thing is that it's the same attitude that explains why in so many parts of the world there is the same antipathy to be found.

Gwyllgi
23-04-10, 08:49
Not very flattering when you say it to the atheist. ;)

I saw the funny side to that as well! :laughing:

I'm certain no sleight was intended.

Cambrius (The Red)
23-04-10, 13:49
I saw the funny side to that as well! :laughing:

I'm certain no sleight was intended.


No slight was intended. I probably should have written, "bless the Welsh people", or something along those lines.

BTW, I'm no fan of conventional religion.

russul
01-11-10, 17:26
I think multiculti is good as long both sides try to get a long and do comprimses..in Germany their are many debates about it now a days ,because of a football game between Germany and Turkey ..:P

Carlitos
24-02-11, 01:54
http://www.ssim.org/ssimindex/images/stories/ssim/los%209%20topicos.png

Multiculturalism you feel good or bad, depending on how you look or whatever you see as the color of the glass we look at it.

Sirius2b
24-02-11, 03:58
Is multuculturalism positive?

I will not give an answer on that.

It is to miss the point entirely.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why are so much discussion about the supposed negativity of Multiculturalim?

Because many people in the Firsl World sees current paterns of immigration to their countries, as negative.

Why negative?

For a number of reasons... some more deep or more true than others. Other based on pure prejudice... but that will be to miss the point, also.

There are many reasons why people migrate, an no case is equal from country to contry or person to person. But massive emigration, specially massive economical refugees, GENERALLY are due to not well functioning economies in many "south" countries.

And WHY does these countries don't develop faster? (In some cases, they even go a process of underdeveloping, as we speak).

The saddest reason, is that some of these countries have everything to develop and grow fast... but they have corrupt and authoritarian regimes, MOST OF THE TIMES SUPPORTED BY THE WEST (generally, the most corrupt, the higher the support)... that expell their people, that later create a problem (either political, economical, or both) in said Western countries.

Sad, very sad... and is almost maddening when you grasp it at full.

However, there are for example the East Asian countries (e.g. see China, Japan and Korea, and many others), that generally didn't followed at all the recipes that in the last four or so decades, the West tried to imposse in most of the world... and that generally (said Asian countries) are not involved much in this fenomenon of massive migration.

I don't see the solution, as it takes to acquire CONCIENCE that it is not a matter of if you like or not a concept of "multiculturalism".

(positive, in an ideal world).

Regards.

Sirius2b
24-02-11, 05:47
Well, when you start something, you feel that you have to finish it.

"Multiculturalism" is a different issue, say, in countries like Germany or Canada. For what I know, the issue is very different in both countries.

I personally like multiculturalism, here, where I live... but then, here is not an issue.

What I am really interesting at, is not if Multiculturalism by itself in abstract is positive or negative... but why, right now, is it an issue.

What are the underlying objective reasons (demographical, economical, ideological, historical) so that there is so much debate about "Multiculturalism"?

I believe that there are underlying trends and mechanisms.

That suffice for now.

Regards.

LeBrok
24-02-11, 06:22
One correction Sirius, China is multicultural and multi lingual, and for quite a long time.

Time will tell if China will hold together in future though.

Probably the best example of multicultural country that is doing very well is Singapore.

What could be the worse example? In Europe probably Yugoslavia and Soviet Union, I mean a very bad final result.

Sirius2b
24-02-11, 06:36
One correction Sirius, China is multicultural and multi lingual, and for quite a long time.

When I spoke about the Asian countries I didn't mean they were not Multicultural, but that they followed their own economic models.

I agree with what you expressed above.


Probably the best example of multicultural country that is doing very well is Singapore.

I agree in your positive appreciation... but I am not sure is the best.


What could be the worse example? In Europe probably Yugoslavia and Soviet Union, I mean a very bad final result.

As I say, I am not in this thread "in favor" or "against" Multiculturalism in an "objective" sense.

(In the subjective sense, I like it... as a personal taste).

What I was refering in my last to post above, was some aspects around the discussion of Multiculturalism, not Multiculturalism itself.

Regards.

Antigone
24-02-11, 07:51
What I am really interesting at, is not if Multiculturalism by itself in abstract is positive or negative... but why, right now, is it an issue.

I think because right now massive numbers of people are moving around the world like never before and native populations are feeling under threat. But like multiculturism or not, large economies do need large labour forces to remain healthy and continue to grow so immigration has to be the inevitable result.

I grew up with the children of immigrants from all over the word because of multiculturism and it was a wonderful experience but it really depends on the attitude of the immigrants themselves and the attitude of the host country toward the immigrants whether or not it is successful. Only time will tell.

Sprinkles
25-02-11, 02:04
Bringing bad genes into good genes will only hurt the good genes in terms of fitness.

If you are culture, and bad genes are flowing into your country, why on earth would it be favorable?

If you are a culture, and good genes are flowing into your country, you may approve, but given too much flow - your own culture will change - which was shaped for thousands of years - and cultural problems may arise between new and old. Why? Because the culture of your own is a product of survival, it works, any changes are not guaranteed to work.

Sprinkles
25-02-11, 02:07
What I am really interesting at, is not if Multiculturalism by itself in abstract is positive or negative... but why, right now, is it an issue.


It's an issue because it has been going on since air transportation became a feasible way of gene flow.

THink about this.

In the beginning all was fine, you experienced new people, nothing was harmed. Over time, more and more of those people came into your towns. Now they try to over-run the neighborhood, they don't contribute, and they stay to themselves. They don't speak the same language. Now what? They commit more crime, the people have to pay their welfare, medical care, etc. They take more money from the economy than they produce.

Economic times are hard, but getting better. People don't want to pay for people that have little genetic relation to them. The question of multiculturalism comes up.

Sirius2b
25-02-11, 02:45
It's an issue because it has been going on since air transportation became a feasible way of gene flow.

I think that the former post and this quote, deals with Eugenics, and well, ideas of racial superiority.

I personally do not want to deal separatelly "cultural" and "racial" issues.

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In the beginning all was fine, you experienced new people, nothing was harmed. Over time, more and more of those people came into your towns. Now they try to over-run the neighborhood, they don't contribute, and they stay to themselves. They don't speak the same language. Now what? They commit more crime, the people have to pay their welfare, medical care, etc. They take more money from the economy than they produce.

This is a pretty well summarize the compound of fears, real or imagined, that people in receiving countries have, and effectively make Multiculturalism (I rather say, massive immigration) a so actual issue.

However, whole countries like Australia, Canada and the USA were constructed that way... with massive immigration.

About the USA... If they had only received the initial wave that constructed the 13 colonies of New England they could have not be able to effectively populate the center and the west (for good or wrong).


Economic times are hard, but getting better. People don't want to pay for people that have little genetic relation to them. The question of multiculturalism comes up.

O.K.

However, it is difficult to say if in all the cases immigrants improve or worsen the economic situation.

It could not be proven, for you cannot put or take out the people to test it. And even if you do, you cannot control everything, and say that a point about it, is completedly proved.

What it is truth, is that many people in the receiving countries feel these fears/grevances, and that generate hate... against people generally more weak. It helps the creation of radical nativistic political movements.

Thererefore, I believe that when it is posible, the people in those countries that plan to migrate, have conscience that the best option will be to stay and try to improve their own countries.

If there is not massive immigration, the reaction of rejection could be less fueled, and the good experiences of @Antigone, as multicultural emigrants, will be more generalized.

Regards.