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Maciamo
14-12-04, 07:37
One think that took me a long time to understand in the Japanese mentality is that after doing something wrong (e.g. arriving late, forgetting to do something you were asked to do, etc.), the Japanese do not want to hear justifications or excuses, but simply an apology ("I am sorry").

This is something that hugely conflict with my own way of thinking, because it is the exact opposite of how I feel about it. If someone does something wrong that angers me, an apology, even formal in serious cases, and even prostrating oneself to the ground and cry, will have little or no effect on me.

The thing is I do not forgive easily and certainly not forget. But the best way to obtain forgiveness is not to apologize for one's deeds, but to repair the wrong done, or if it is not so serious, find a good justification. Actually, I am more likely to forgive someone who tries hard to find a good excuses (if possible with supporting facts) than someone who simply apologizes. But I realised that in Japan, the best justification (even with hard facts and witnesses) will mean nothing until the person has apologized. Once someone say "sorry", that's it, and everything is cleared as if nothing had happened !
This is as much true for politicians involved in serious scandals or doctors who committed some malpractice and caused someone (or several people)'s death, as with the HIV contaminated blood transfusion case showed a few years ago.

What about you ?

Brooker
14-12-04, 07:48
I sincere apology goes a long way with me. I think the reason should follow the apology.

The worst is when the "offender" tries to deny they did anything wrong, just makes like the situation isn't a big deal, or tries to push the blame on to someone else.

Glenn
14-12-04, 08:08
I agree with Brooker: I forgive people fairly easily if they sincerely apologize, accept responsibility for what they have done, and show that they are attempting to avoid doing it again. If I believe that any of these conditions is not met, then forgiveness comes rarely, and after a long time if at all (usually just so that I can move on with my life, not to make the other person feel better). I have a bad habit of holding grudges if I feel that the situation hasn't been resolved.

Martyr
14-12-04, 08:11
Your poll should regard whether or not you live in Japan rather than if you're Japanese. I, for example, am a Japanese-American, and do not fit your Japanese criteria.

Maciamo
14-12-04, 08:22
Your poll should regard whether or not you live in Japan rather than if you're Japanese. I, for example, am a Japanese-American, and do not fit your Japanese criteria.

If you were raised with Japanese values, that's fine.



The worst is when the "offender" tries to deny they did anything wrong, just makes like the situation isn't a big deal, or tries to push the blame on to someone else.

But sometimes it is really somebody else's fault. What if you arrive late at an appointment because someone you met just before does not want to let you go (continue talking and following you) even when you tell them you have to go ? What if there is a traffic accident in front of you that completely blocks the traffic ? These are all good excuses, as long as they are not lies (a proof to support the justification is always better, but not always easy to find).

When it is entirely one's fault, then there is little choice but apologizing. That rarely happens to me (eg. I might completely forget about an appointment once every 2 years or so), but when it does I feel extremely embarassed and confused ("how could that have happened ?"). But in that case, I would try to make the other person a favour to repay my error, as I don't feel the apology itself is worth anything, no matter how sincere it is.

Glenn
14-12-04, 08:43
But sometimes it is really somebody else's fault. What if you arrive late at an appointment because someone you met just before does not want to let you go (continue talking and following you) even when you tell them you have to go ? What if there is a traffic accident in front of you that completely blocks the traffic ? These are all good excuses, as long as they are not lies (a proof to support the justification is always better, but not always easy to find).

I wasn't even thinking of those types of situations as being "forgivable," because it wasn't their fault. However, I just realized that fault is irrelevant, so forgiving someone for being caught up in such situations would be easy for me. I'd probably be more angry at the person who wouldn't shut up, or the person (or people) who caused the wreck than the unfortunate victim of those situations.

Brooker
14-12-04, 09:07
I'm sometimes a little late for work just because I couldn't find any parking (which only happens infrequently). My coworker who works the previous shift can't leave until I get there, so even ten minutes can be a little inconvenient if you have plans after work. So, when I show up, I apologize for the inconvenient situation even though it's not really my fault and then explain the reason.

Maciamo
14-12-04, 09:27
I wasn't even thinking of those types of situations as being "forgivable," because it wasn't their fault. However, I just realized that fault is irrelevant, so forgiving someone for being caught up in such situations would be easy for me. I'd probably be more angry at the person who wouldn't shut up, or the person (or people) who caused the wreck than the unfortunate victim of those situations.

Japanese people expect you to apologize even if it's not your fault. No matter if you are the victim, you caused somebody to wait for you, and must apologize. I guess I am so used to it now that I forgot myself that I was thinking like you that there is no reason to apologize when it's not your fault. A real excuse (someone else's fault) should be enough. However, in my experience the Japanese only want to hear your excuse, as they don't know the third party and don't know whether your story is true or not. And apologies are required also between intimiate people, not just in formal situtation like work. For example, my wife would expect an apology from me if I could buy something she asked for at the supermarket because I was stuck ar work until the supermarket was closed. In my experience, it's just pointless to explain what happened. The only thing they want to hear is an apology and that's all (even without a word of explanation, they just don't care about the "why" part).


So, when I show up, I apologize for the inconvenient situation even though it's not really my fault and then explain the reason.

Yes, me too; in such a case, I apologize then explain. But what I really want to know in this thread is which one matters most to you: the apology and the explanation. In my case, an apology alone will not do, but a good explanation is ok. For the Japanese (I think I can really say "almost all" of them in this case, not just a general trend, but almost a hard fact), what matters is the apology, and the best reason/explanation you may have will just be useless until the word "sorry" comes out, no matter if it's your fault or not.

That tends to irritate me, because some Japanese people I know think that by just saying sorry that is enough to justify anything they have done. I can think of one or two students of mine in particular who forget to come to the (one-to-one) lesson. After waiting 20 minutes, I call them and they just say "oh I forgot, sorry (I have said the magic word, so I am forgiven, right)".

Brooker
14-12-04, 09:47
Japanese people apologize at the drop of a hat, so, to NOT apologize, would indicate to them that you just completely don't care at all. I remember Japanese people would apologize to me when I held the elevator door open for them. I always thought that was strange as they obviously had done nothing wrong.

CC1
14-12-04, 09:55
I'm sometimes a little late for work just because I couldn't find any parking (which only happens infrequently). My coworker who works the previous shift can't leave until I get there, so even ten minutes can be a little inconvenient if you have plans after work. So, when I show up, I apologize for the inconvenient situation even though it's not really my fault and then explain the reason.

I understand what you are saying, but after it happened once, it is your fault the next time. You should have adjusted your time accordingly so that it doesn't happen again! I have a similar work situation. My co-worker can't leave until I arrive. I know that it takes me 20 minutes with no interruptions to get to work, but I always factor in extra time to ensure that I am never late. (it has happened once) After that time I also ensured that I had a back up route to work in case the traffic was backed up again. Now I have four routes planned in order to drive to work in case something comes up!

mad pierrot
14-12-04, 10:06
I really don't see the point in refusing an apology. Better to accept it and move on, I think. Then again, even if I accept an apology doesn't mean I won't be weary from that point on. Mistakes are forgivable, but there is a big difference between kindness and stupidity. Example: I might forgive a friend whole stole money from me, but from that point on I'll be sure to prevent the same thing from happening again.

Brooker
14-12-04, 10:15
I understand what you are saying, but after it happened once, it is your fault the next time. You should have adjusted your time accordingly so that it doesn't happen again! I have a similar work situation. My co-worker can't leave until I arrive. I know that it takes me 20 minutes with no interruptions to get to work, but I always factor in extra time to ensure that I am never late. (it has happened once) After that time I also ensured that I had a back up route to work in case the traffic was backed up again. Now I have four routes planned in order to drive to work in case something comes up!

Doesn't the fact that I would apologize show that, at least to some degree, I would share in the blame? Point was, in a situation like that, at least a small apology is necessary whether you are at FAULT or not. Because I know that in a situation like that, whatever the reasons, the bottom line is that you weren't there on time.

Jungle Boy
14-12-04, 10:57
I forgive very easily wether a person apologizes or not. I just find it really hard to be mad at people.

Maciamo
14-12-04, 11:05
I really don't see the point in refusing an apology. Better to accept it and move on, I think. Then again, even if I accept an apology doesn't mean I won't be weary from that point on.

From my point of view, the apology is optional. I am never going to request an apology from someone (I have never asked for any). I may ask for a justification and/or reparation, but what does it change to get an apology, especially that you can never be sure whether it is sincere or not with some people.


Mistakes are forgivable, but there is a big difference between kindness and stupidity. Example: I might forgive a friend whole stole money from me, but from that point on I'll be sure to prevent the same thing from happening again.

As I say, "forgiven but not forgotten". ;-)

mad pierrot
14-12-04, 12:40
As I say, "forgiven but not forgotten".

:cool:

The funny part is I've been accused of being blind to people's faults. .

kirei_na_me
14-12-04, 14:17
I think I am forgiving to a fault. I have gotten hurt more than a few times because of it.

As for the Japanese people and their apologies, I find they can be insincere a lot of the time. They are programmed to say they're sorry for everything, so who is to say that they really are sorry. I've heard many sorries in the past near decade that just sounded routine to me. Even for more 'major' things.

nekosasori
14-12-04, 15:21
I voted "neither". It depends on the circumstances, whether it's a repeat offense, whether it was avoidable with some forethought or consideration, and what kind of person has committed the infraction. I see explanations (an analysis of what led to the wrongdoing/offense) and excuses ("it's just who I am" "it couldn't be helped") to be separate things as well. I also don't really care about apologies if they're insincere or if it ends up being meaningless (i.e. the person at fault continues to live life without adjusting to minimize this sort of problem in future).

I can forgive those I love easily, but I have very low expectations of people that I do not respect (which I find a healthier attitude to have since that way they're like to surprise me in a pleasant way, or at least confirm my low opinion of them - either way it's not a shock or maybe it's less irritating?) But I also pick my battles - I'll keep in mind what people have done that's affected me adversely in the past (so that I don't keep making the same mistakes either, like trusting them to be on time or whathaveyou) but I won't stew over past transgressions - life is too short to waste on negativity.

RockLee
14-12-04, 15:32
well, an apology would do for me, except in some really bad cases...then a apology + reason would do...it's just a japanese thing I think...like with the honor thing in Japan...

Elizabeth
14-12-04, 15:35
As for the Japanese people and their apologies, I find they can be insincere a lot of the time. They are programmed to say they're sorry for everything, so who is to say that they really are sorry. I've heard many sorries in the past near decade that just sounded routine to me. Even for more 'major' things.
The ones I know tend not to apologize as much to foreign foreigners or people they don't respect, though, it's all a status thing....which I'm just beginning to have to put up with. :p

CC1
14-12-04, 15:51
I would require both. Of course, depending upon the circumstances! For example...if a worker is late, I expect an excuse. If it happens more than once, I expect both. The apology serves as an acknowledgement of a mistake, and the excuse provides me with the necessary information to determine if disciplinary action is warranted.

If it is a child, I am more lenient and willing to forgive as they are still in the learning process, but I still expect an apology! :sorry:

jovial_jon
14-12-04, 16:57
I have a tendency to forgive people regardless. It takes something major to get in my bad books. If there isn't an apology/good excuse, then I'll be a bit annoyed for a little while, and then just have forgotten about it really. I'm just too nice. :D

Kamisama
14-12-04, 17:02
hmm...

i forgive no one.
Nor forget.

I only act it.
I let the hate build up.
It gives me power.

TwistedMac
14-12-04, 17:52
gimme five minutes and a lollipop and you're forgiven.

Except if you completely betrayed my trust... then you no longer exist to me... ever.

but that's only happened with one person so far.

jovial_jon
14-12-04, 17:59
Yeah, I don't really think anybody has done anything really bad to me, so maybe I would be a little less forgiving if it was something major, who knows.

Mimmy_08
14-12-04, 18:21
I can easily forgive and forget..I dont know why but that is my characteristic

Miss_apollo7
14-12-04, 19:11
For me, it all depends on what that person has done to make me upset or angry...I have forgiven people many times, and in most cases I wanted a reasonable explanation, which I think is fair. :-)

If it is really serious, I can not forget... :p But, this has not happened to me yet....People are usually nice to me....I want to think... :relief:

Fantt
14-12-04, 20:27
Life is too short to be upset with people over things in which major bodily injury or death did not occur. :D I think I forgive awfully easily, even without an apology. Holding a grudge against someone, for whatever reason causes suffering, and I'd rather just chill.

I used to get really mad while driving when people cut me off or did something horribly rude. I realized that getting mad like that didn't help me get anywhere any faster and just made the trip less enjoyable, so I just quit getting mad. I've found the same thing works for most stuff in life. Anger just leads to feeling bad. I'd rather feel good.

miu
14-12-04, 20:44
Japanese people expect you to apologize even if it's not your fault. No matter if you are the victim, you caused somebody to wait for you, and must apologize.
I had a really hard time understanding why the japanese who were abducted in Iraq had to apologise but after getting to know the whole ie concept it's not so weird after all. After all, they had brought "shame" to their ie (the Japanese nation) by being abducted (they weren't supposed ot be in Iraq in the first place and the government had to spend money on getting them back). The group goes first, right?

Wouldn't you, too, start your sentence with "I'm sorry I'm late, but..." when you're late for an appointment even though it's not your fault? For me the apology and explanation just sort of goes together. I expect people to give me an explanation because otherwise it just seems like they didn't bother to come on time or whatever... I forgive really easily, though. Espescially if I get treated nicely afterwards ^^; The problem is that I expect other people to forget as easily as I do and unfortunately I'm late a lot and very forgetful sometimes... *_*; Besides, I really hate it when some people remember that one thing you did wrong 10 years ago and never let it go. It just makes you feel like no matter what you do, you can never make it better so why even bother to behave better?

ragedaddy
15-12-04, 07:43
No one is perfect in this world, and we all make mistakes so there is little we can do to avoid that. When it comes to forgiving though, it depends on the severity of the actions, and also on how remorseful that person is about their actions. Insincerity will get you no where in my book, so it better be straight from the heart, or you can forget it.

mad pierrot
15-12-04, 08:13
Forgive me if I pulled the plug on Jref?

:blush:

Elizabeth
15-12-04, 15:38
For me, it all depends on what that person has done to make me upset or angry...I have forgiven people many times, and in most cases I wanted a reasonable explanation, which I think is fair. :-)

If it is really serious, I can not forget... :p But, this has not happened to me yet....People are usually nice to me....I want to think... :relief:
I'd definately need an explanation as well in the case of someone really close if I sensed a negative shift in their feelings towards me. But I'm extremely picky in the people I want to know well, so that hasn't happened yet either.

The worst betrayal was at the hands of a trusted professor who ultimately asked me go after four years of struggle and indecision, which I of course had to do. And forgive/forget pretty much became a moot point without the chance at revenge. :D Some measure of understanding does come with time, though, and you see where other people are coming from much more clearly. If you have done well by them, any conflicts probably stem a lot more from their own problems and life situation than anything you did. Unless you happen to be incredibly naive and out of your element, which I can't deny being my weakness in those days.... :sorry:

kirei_na_me
15-12-04, 15:42
Forgive me if I pulled the plug on Jref?

:blush:

No.

...............................

mad pierrot
16-12-04, 05:46
No.

Thank god I was only joking! For that matter, I couldn't even if I wanted to. That's Thomas and Maciamo's arena.

kirei_na_me
16-12-04, 05:49
Awwwww, mad p....I know you can't do that. Even if you could and did, I'd probably still forgive you. ;-)

TwistedMac
16-12-04, 09:21
... right after you had beaten him to death with his own legs.

misa.j
10-01-05, 18:15
Not a lot of things bother me anymore. My patience grew as I grew older, having said that, I can't not keep any sort of relationships with disrespectful people, which means that I wouldn't be close enough to be upset by those people. I can't say that I am forgiving them by not giving them another chance. :?

When I am with my husband, my emotions are more fragile since there is no wall between me and him, the arguements can make us act not like ourselves sometimes, a single word "Sorry" might not be enough to explain how we really think.

Shooter452
11-01-05, 17:59
I like to forgive any offense or slight done to me as quickly as possible. Carrying a grudge around hurts the one who carries it. When you put down that big bag of feces and move on, it is more healthy. Is it easy? No, of course not. Nothing good comes easily.

When it comes to me offending others, I always offer an appology as soon as I become aware of the offense. I never make deliberate offense these days. Granted, the opportunity is less now. But I am also older (therefore at least a little bit wiser). It all adds up in your karma counter, I guess.

There is another matter. As one who practices a deadly martial art, I must avoid confrontation at all times. And this is not only a matter of moral consequence. It is not worth my remaining days to be tied up with the legal consequence of taking another human life. An appology is much easier and much cheaper in legal fees (US lawyers cost 300 bucks an hour when in court!).

I am not much of Christian, but it is better to forgive even those who spite you than it is to get even.

darkrikku66
18-01-05, 03:59
I dont think of getting an apology from people, even though i apologize all the time. When i get mad i tend to forgive and forget. its really hard but its better then keeping a grudge. i know that i would want people to do the same . you dont get anything from being mad all the time,It only makes you depressed.

Lacan
18-01-05, 05:38
Sorry, I picked non japanese WOMAN! can someone change it please?

And if someone didn't have a good reason to betray me, there is no need to apologize, as I won't give him/her a second chance. I won't be angry, I'll just forget about him/her.

ralian
12-05-05, 22:42
"Forgive and forget (even though it's difficult sometimes) " is my policy. :-)
Carrying a grudge affects our health. (It's true :nuts: )
If you want to live a healthy and happy life, forgive and forget.
That's what I think.

smoke
12-05-05, 22:47
I am very intollerant of people being late...probably because i am always earlier for everything (i'll probably be early for my funeral, which is a scary thought).

Ricky Gervais said something very funny about people being late: no excue is good enough.
"My grandmother died"
"...well, you knew she was ill"

Doc
13-05-05, 00:10
Forgive and forget are not a part of my vocabulary.

Doc:ramen::happy:

lexico
13-05-05, 06:11
Sorry, I picked non japanese WOMAN! can someone change it please?Some repressed libidinal force surfacing ? Freud didn't believe in mistakes.... sorry, just couldn't help it. I don't agree with him on that.

And if someone didn't have a good reason to betray me, there is no need to apologize, as I won't give him/her a second chance. I won't be angry, I'll just forget about him/her.Is not being angered something you've learned ? Or do you transform it into forgetting as a trade off ?

I'm usually more vengeful; would rather keep him/her around for some bashing (non-physical). I'm more moving towards A. B. C.

A. "Don't get mad; just get even to get it over with."
B. "Totally cut off the relationship."
C. "Talk it out till I'm satisfied."

After a while I can forget (the pain), but the momory of breaching is there. So I could never revive a dead relationship.

Doc
13-05-05, 06:37
Some repressed libidinal force surfacing ? Freud didn't believe in mistakes.... sorry, just couldn't help it. I don't agree with him on that.
Is not being angered something you've learned ? Or do you transform it into forgetting as a trade off ?

I'm usually more vengeful; would rather keep him/her around for some bashing (non-physical). I'm more moving towards A. B. C.

A. "Don't get mad; just get even to get it over with."
B. "Totally cut off the relationship."
C. "Talk it out till I'm satisfied."

After a while I can forget, but the momory of breaching is there. So I could never revive a dead relationship.

Lexico I can understand where you're coming from. For me I can forgive a person for what they did to me, but I can never forget, and that alone will prevent me from trying to revive the already dead relationship. I don't hold grudges much, and I'm not that vengeful. However, I will never forget when a person backstabs me in a relationship killing it off completely.

Doc:ramen::happy:

ralian
13-05-05, 07:42
I've read about a person who forgave the murderer who killed her child.
I could not believe it, but it was a true story. She said, "I forgive him".
You might say, "Is she mad?"
At least she is free from the anger.
Anger kills us, really.

Revenant
14-05-05, 07:34
Agree with Brooker. And actually, I forgive even those that don't ask forgiveness. I forget, and it's very hard for me to maintain hard feelings towards anyone.

To me, it makes sense anyways, as forgiving is letting go of negative feelings towards someone. Anger isn't exactly a happy emotion, so to be living the exerience again in memory, one also relives the anger. Worse yet, is that people always try to justify their feelings. People start to look for supporting facts to justify their feelings. It's unobjective, and is detrimental to happiness, in the way that, humans for the most part can only focus on one thing at a time. So you are focused on anger? How can you then also be focused on that which could make you happy?

I do feel closer to someone who sincerely apologizes. Anyways, my Japanese wife often says, I don't say I'm sorry often enough. I give reasons for being late, but it's just not a conditioned response for me to say sorry.

The other thing I was wondering, is that once, I was doing a TV conference lesson, and couldn't get the camera to connect with theirs. I was late by 10 minutes, and apologized, saying, my apologies for being late, but I couldn't connect. The students later called my boss, and complained that I was late. My wife said, that by saying sorry, I was accepting responsibility for being late. Therefore, the students assumed it was completely my fault.

Anyone else have any similar experiences?

Maciamo
04-11-05, 15:02
In Italy, to keep the bella figura, when one is late for an appointment (which is frequent there), it is often better not to apologise but make up a story as an excuse and try not to take the lateness lightly and humouristically. It is almost the exact opposite of the formal apology with bowing and no excuse that the Japanese expect.

monrepo
04-11-05, 16:34
I would forgive someone only if they apologized.

Kinsao
04-11-05, 16:36
Hmmm... it's difficult to answer the question.
Usually I can forgive people very easily, because I think if you carry on to be angry for a long time, it gives them power over you. If you can forgive them, you can be stronger than they are and you are free from them.

But, I think it is much harder to forgive someone who has hurt badly someone you love. :(

CC1
04-11-05, 16:38
But if you are late for something isn't your fault? I mean no matter what the reason, if you had left 5 minutes earlier you would have been either early or on time! So if you are late, you should be apologizing right?

Maciamo
04-11-05, 16:50
But if you are late for something isn't your fault? I mean no matter what the reason, if you had left 5 minutes earlier you would have been either early or on time! So if you are late, you should be apologizing right?

What if you couldn't leave 5min earlier because of somebody else. You could be caught up in a meeting with a customer that you cannot end easily whenever you want. You might have been delayed by an annoying police officer that wanted to check your bicycle registration (made me arrive 5min late to an appointment on 2 occasions in Japan). You could have had an emergency to deal with (anything from a sudden urgent need to go to the toilet to calming your wife because you forgot to pass the vaccuum cleaner before leaving). Today I was 5min late to an appointment because of unusually dense traffic and bad luck about train timing.

Yet, in any of these situation, few Japanese want to hear justifications, even if it really isn't your fault. I have understood that and just apologise. Whenever I try to add an explanation, they typically dismiss it as unnecessary. They feel like I am making something up and just don't want to hear it. I only know one Japanese who is constantly late (something rare in Japan), and always find some pretty bad and quite unbelievable excuses (even rarer) like "the train stopped for 10min at the station" (once I could believe it, but 5x in 2 months ?).

Kinsao
04-11-05, 17:22
If I'm late for something, I just say "sorry I'm late"... I will give the reason if I think it's relevant, something that might hold up other people like "there's a bad accident at the roundabout". But usually I don't give the reason because it sounds like you're making excuses. :kanashii: When I'm on the "receiving end", I generally assume that people don't want to be late, and therefore must have been held up by something outside their control. I'm not curious as to what that was, just as long as they say "sorry" out of courtesy.

With a mobile, if there's a train delay it's easy to let people know in advance if you're going to be late, I think that's basic politeness too.

Pachipro
04-11-05, 19:20
In Japan a sincere apology is taken most seriously. A wise person can tell if the person is sincere or not. It is the act of apologizing that is important. Apologizing for being late for class or a date or missing a meeting shows that you are taking responsibility for your actions. In Japan I would expect someone to apologize as that is the custom.

Here in the states an apology is rarely given as, an excuse, whether true or not, is the norm. Still, I would expect a sincere apology and if none were given I would be wary of that persons true intentions.

In my case I tend to "forgive and forget" which is why I have been taken advantage of in the past. We are all human and mistakes are bound to happen. No one is perfect all of the time and circumstances beyond ones control do come into account. However, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, or thrice, shame on me.

Reiku
05-04-06, 09:09
Hmm...

...well, I do find it hard to forgive people--vengeance is just in my nature I guess.

But personally I find a good (and true) excuse to be better than an apology, though usually I'll still be pissed at the person regardless. I guess you could say there is a certain degree of seperation between my emotions and my intellect, so what one knows does not usually carry over to the other.

Still, I don't particularly care if someone is "sorry". Feeling bad for having done something wrong just shows you aren't a sociopath--guilt doesn't absolve you, nor is it any indication that you won't do the same thing again.

If it honestly wasn't your fault, however--and you can prove that--then there's nothing to feel guilty about, the wrong was not committed by you, you were just another victim of it.

For example, a person who is late to work because someone had a traffic accident and the freeway was closed off isn't at fault, so there's no reason to apologize.

But a person who tearfully begs me to forgive them for staying home and smoking pot instead of coming to work is asking for a swift kick in the teeth. Ill bet you're sorry: You're sorry you got in trouble, deal with it. That was the choice you made and you shouldn't have decided to do it if you couldn't accept the consequences.

A person who skips work that just tells their boss honestly shows a lot more character and responsibility than one who thinks they should be forgiven because they "feel bad" about what they choose to do. I'd rather have an employee who weighs the consequences before acting and doesn't chose to do things they will regret later, even if working for me isn't their top priority.

Thor
05-04-06, 09:26
I forgive people very easily. I give them three chances. If they do some serious injustice to me, that will be one chance gone for them. Three strikes, and you're out? Yes!

Riyko
05-04-06, 10:20
The only way I will forgive someone is if they explain themself to me and explain everything without lying.

sl0thmachin3
05-04-06, 12:30
I may forgive easily but I do not forget. Also, apologies make forgiving easy. I find it hard to remain angry for long and it's too troublesome anyway to be angry. Your day is ruined and you get stressed and morally tired afterwards. I feel it is better to just let things slide especially if the person gives a sincere apology. Acting like nothing happened though really pisses me off.

PRIZMATIC
06-04-06, 05:44
:blush: Only Jesus Christ forgives... (or Buddha)
People can agree only whether or not with the apologies brought to him...

Takaryo
06-04-06, 11:24
No. :D

If I forgive them, they'll just do the same thing all over again.

Mitsuo
07-04-06, 08:10
I am really easy going. If something pisses me off, then most likely I will have already moved on within the next ten minutes or so. But I rarely hold grudges (the only way I get revenge is by doing better then that person.) Kind of like that saying "The best revenge is living well". I do like apologies though. They have to be sincere and face to face. I am a pretty straight forward guy, so if I want to say something, then I will. And the only way that I will apologize is when I know I'm wrong or feel that I provoked it. If I apologize to anyone, then it will only be sincere. I will not give a phony apology.

The only time I will not accept an apology though, is when they keep repeating the same thing that made them apologize in the first place. Also, backstabbing is one of my pet peeves. I hate it. Once I am betrayed, it will take awhile for the betrayer to get back on my "good" list.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is....It depends on the situation. Took me awhile to get there, but I did.

suzhouboy
08-04-06, 01:49
I think it according to the situation. both the level of the affair and what's the attitude of that person.

Locklear904
08-04-06, 03:25
Well....there's only one thing that i haven't forgiven a certain person for. This person crossed my line,which is hard to do,and i haven't forgiven that person to this date.Other than that,I can get mad or annoyed sometimes,but I usually feel bad about it and forgive the person within a day.

Minty
08-04-06, 22:30
I usually do forgive but not from apologies alone rather from whether the person who apologizes really means it. However I donft forget because I believe this is how you learn from life, so you wonft be cheated again in those kinds of situations. You learn from the mistakes you made as well as from the experiences of how others have treated you, and don't fall for the same trap again:souka:

Kara_Nari
12-04-06, 17:57
I dont tend to say sorry, because if its my fault and I know that I faulted, then I obviously intended to do it.
However if it was a mistake, I will give my reasons as to why it happened... sometimes if it makes the offended person feel better I will say sorry. However I dont think a simple sorry is justified as an apology.

I hate waiting, or having people make false 'promises' (konglish)... then to change them at the last minute, because 'Sorry something came up.' Yup I hate that more than most things, but after a year of it, im used to it, and feel at liberty to do the same thing to those having had done it to me.

Generally I tend to forgive, but not forget. However if a person hurts someone (mentally or physically), that I love.. be it a friend, family member or lover, I tend to be more angered and upset than if it was done to me.

PRIZMATIC
13-04-06, 00:32
:blush: Simply a note:
It would be good, if in South Korea have seen in Russian koreans same koreans as they see in "Northern" or "Sakhalin" - their is much heavier destiny...
I have been surprised, when have found out - that in South Korea of 30 % profess the Buddhism and 20 % of people profess Christianity...
Russian koreans should not "be forgiven"... Korea - the Earth their Ancestors...
In Russia - they not Russian, in Korea - not koreans...
I would like to ask the Christ and the Buddha - where in their doctrines is written, that descendants of immigrants lose the historical native land...
If in such question - as the historical native land, these "Teachers" nothing gave to Korea - what can do unites this country?...:angel:

Kara_Nari
13-04-06, 15:26
Hmm, im not sure if you're expecting me to apologise to you for something or not... but im not actually Korean, so I dont really see a need to.
I do however sympathise with you, I know how rough Korean/Russians have it.

PRIZMATIC
14-04-06, 02:43
:blush: I not about apologies... I - about " lost people "... People, which ancestors have left the Native land, in this country have lost, for years of the Soviet reprisals, and the culture... They" try to be koreans"... but they already "others"...They need revival...In fact descendants of immigrants had no "choice"...They hostages of a choice of their ancestors...:angel:
... It I about the God...:blush:

Mars Man
14-04-06, 17:26
OFF TOPIC: sorry.

Nice to see you posting again PRAZMATIC. I still have some trouble understanding just what you want to say specifically, but, hey...nice to see you 'round !!

PRIZMATIC
15-04-06, 01:36
:wave: Hello Mars Man!
Is glad to see you!
It were simply " reflections aloud "... About destiny of half-million inhabitants in Russia and the CIS, the Korean nationality... Which, on the native land in Korea, consider "ill-bred" (and it so - from the point of view of the Korean culture), and in Russia-... think, what comparisons are given east people by the European nationalists...
Mine " reflections aloud " is a reaction to dialogue with the Korean embassy and tourist Korean firm on a question of one elderly korean which wanted to go home to look for relatives...
To tell, that she has met " the latent disrespect and an obvious inattention " - probably will be approximately that...
In this person do not respect that she did not have opportunity to keep the culture... (Russian koreans before the beginning of the second World war subjected to repression, having moved to Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan, etc. And there from them children at the Soviet schools "did" the Soviet citizens - " washed out brains "...)
And now they - who?...
People which speak so:
- What it is necessary to do (Russian) koreans? Only to work and silently to suffer...(...it is norma?)
Here I have told, that it is a pity to me of them and I do not understand southern koreans, everyone "from two" of which trust either in the Christ or in the Buddha...
It is simple reflection about the God and people...:angel:
All right is really complex theme...:blush:

Mars Man
15-04-06, 02:42
I got it better this time; thanks PRAZMATIC san. It sounds like the often sad situation of human make up--I think it has happened in many situations, both small and almost unknown, and large too. It's really sad.

Thanks for your reply.

PRIZMATIC
16-04-06, 00:34
Mars Man san:angel:...