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View Full Version : Do you accept easily criticism about your country's system or government ?



Maciamo
22-02-05, 04:07
It is probable that the culture and education system of each country gives its citizens different sensibilities regarding criticism. In some countries, people are taught to be critical everything (even oneself), and in others not be be too critical. What interests me here is how people perceive criticism coming from others (especially foreigners) regarding their country's system or government. Watch out that it does NOT include criticism about you personally, but only your country's politicians, educational system, etc.

quiet sunshine
22-02-05, 04:56
I hesitated between the last two selections, I finally made my choice because of the word"justify".
Each country has these or those problems, sometimes we are too accustomed with the environment we live and even not conscious about where the problem is, the criticism from people with another point of view will remind us and help us to know things more correctly and objectively, surely, we should analyze those criticism rationally.

Ma Cherie
22-02-05, 05:21
I'll accept foriegn criticism, if it's rational. Some people do not know the difference between constructive criticism and being judgmental.

thomas
22-02-05, 05:38
I voted for the "I am completely open to criticism from abroad and also criticize my own country a lot" option. Generally, I believe that criticism should always be rational and well-founded and never "cross the line" (of decency or politeness). I am not sure though, if it needs to be "constructive".

Sally_Hawn
22-02-05, 08:09
I voted for "I am completely open to criticism from abroad and also criticize my own country a lot."

Since I came from a very hypercritical culture (one of the most capitalist regions who just joined up with a so-called communist regime) where almost everybody criticizes the new government, I actually enjoy reading all kinds of, ill- or good- intended, criticisms about our governments. Oftentimes I find them quite entertaining and itfs like free consultation. Why not give it a hear? Itfs not like I have to do what theyfre telling me to.

TwistedMac
22-02-05, 12:24
"I am open to their criticism, but can't change my country's system anyway (so why tell me) ?" was EXACTLY what I thought when I read the thread title to begin with... was surprised to find such a perfect option in a poll to show my opinion on the matter.

Elizabeth
22-02-05, 13:47
I voted for the "I am completely open to criticism from abroad and also criticize my own country a lot" option. Generally, I believe that criticism should always be rational and well-founded and never "cross the line" (of decency or politeness). I am not sure though, if it needs to be "constructive".
I am also completely open to critiques from foreigners that have been tightly argued, empirically based if possible, and are careful not to insult with too broad a brush. They also should be based in reality and the existing framework of that society, it helps if the critics have actually lived in the place they're discussing. Laying onto Americans solely for not overthrowing its government in the same way Europeans do slightly ludicrious, for instance, since nothing in the two party system supports that sort of radical maneuvering. And it has been that way since the Constitutional Convention, nothing to do with the current administration....on second thought maybe 'I can't do anything' is closer to the truth in this case.... :p

mad pierrot
22-02-05, 14:08
until after I posted in the other thread about cultural divisions. Just to re-iterate:


One thing I have noticed, however, is most Americans, (including me, to an extent) aren't overly fond of other people telling us how to run our own country. Which, I know, is ironic considering how much we do it to other people.

As I voted, I am completey open to any criticism from anyone, as long as it's valid. But I think it's characteristic of human beings in general to be reluctant to accept criticism for alien sources. I think everyone here has at one time or another been pissed off at someone for making a remark on their performace.

kirei_na_me
22-02-05, 15:16
I don't mind criticism, and I definitely critcize my own country(a lot), but sometimes it gets to be a little too much. Especially when it comes from Europeans, the people from a continent that I grew up adoring and looking up to so. I don't want to be dismissed as "just another stupid American".

It just seems like no one ever acknowledges that there are people in the U.S. who are ashamed of their government's actions. There are so many different people here who are from many different backgrounds and who have completely different views. As has been said many times, the U.S. is hardly a homogenous society...unlike Japan. :blush:

TwistedMac
22-02-05, 15:24
most of the time, when someone says "you Americans" or something like that, what we mean isn't really the American people as such.. it's more like the American government and the crazy bastards we see on teevee. You must understand that your faces outwards... are Jerry Springer and Bush.

And we don't getAmerican tv the way you get, say Swedish tv.. if you see a Swedish program, that'll be a rarity on some local network... 60% (rough estimate) of our programs come from America.

Maciamo
22-02-05, 17:23
I don't want to be dismissed as "just another stupid American".

Don't worry, that never applies to you and many of the forum's American members when I criticize "American people".


It just seems like no one ever acknowledges that there are people in the U.S. who are ashamed of their government's actions. There are so many different people here who are from many different backgrounds and who have completely different views. As has been said many times, the U.S. is hardly a homogenous society...unlike Japan. :blush:

Yes, I know. That must be hard not to have a term to differentiate at least the main categories of American people. We could say the liberals vs the conservatives, but that's not just this kind of divide. How would we class US soldiers, for example ? Lots of them are jerks that give such a bad reputation to the US abroad, but again it can never be all the people in that group.

But it's clear that there are many famous American people which I appreciate and sometimes admire (rare thing to do for me, whatever the nationality). We should definitely try to classify better Americans in groups, so that when we criticise even the government, it should be directed at the neo-cons for instance, not everybody (I don't know them personally, but politicians like Ted Kennedy or John Kerry seem to be pretty good fellows). But again, if I want to say that Americans are fatter in average than Europeans or Japanese, it's obvious that not even half of the Americans are fat, and that their ideologies, political affiliations, education or geographic area hardly matters at all (I think).

TwistedMac
22-02-05, 17:36
You can't divide a group as large as "the Americans" in to subgroups and hope to do justice to everyone... that's what we have generalisations for.

Duo
22-02-05, 17:49
I put the last one, accept criticism and criticize my own country a lot. I have millions of reasons to criticise my country, but I won't every accept moral criticsm on my country or people, especially from westeners, ie western europe especially, because I feel that they have no moral basis to stand on. When I hear albanian this, and that, I'm readily sure enough to spit fire back at them. The west in my view, here in europe at least, is just as degenerate as the east. But when it comes down to system of gov, and governemtn in particular there is nothing i can say, bust just to sadly agree..... but also I like to criticise other countries s a lot, so i guess it works out :p

Mycernius
22-02-05, 19:29
[QUOTE=TwistedMac]most of the time, when someone says "you Americans" or something like that, what we mean isn't really the American people as such.. it's more like the American government and the crazy bastards we see on teevee. You must understand that your faces outwards... are Jerry Springer and Bush.
QUOTE]
Just a note, and I am embrassed to say this, but Jerry Springer was born in London and moved to the US when he was five.

Glenn
23-02-05, 05:53
most of the time, when someone says "you Americans" or something like that, what we mean isn't really the American people as such.. it's more like the American government and the crazy bastards we see on teevee. You must understand that your faces outwards... are Jerry Springer and Bush.

You forgot MTV, "The Simple Life," "Who Wants to Marry My Next Door Neighbor," etc. etc. Man, I really hate just about everything that comes on TV. About all I can stand to watch is "Family Guy," "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart," "South Park," and the like. But one thing is for certain, there are very few things in life that I really hate, and out of those things there are probably none that I hate more than MTV.

[Edit] I forgot about the educational channels, i.e. the Discovery channels and the History channels. They have good, educational programming, as does PBS.

Frank D. White
25-02-05, 01:44
try and be open minded to criticism of the US. I was bought up in an atmosphere of "America, love it or leave it!" When I was young growing up in Maine, anyone who spoke badly of our country or government was a "dirty commie" or "subversive" who should be shot or lynched. John Wayne was our hero to emulate. History class told all that was wrong with others and how the US was perfect. I was in my early 20's when it first occured to me the US and our government might NOT be perfect all the time. I still avoid threads & posts that are negative about my country because they reach down deep into my past upbringing and stir up emotions I can't control. I always feel like a failure when my emotions override my education and common sense, but things driven into your head as a child are hard to erase.

Frank

:worried:

Miss_apollo7
25-02-05, 18:44
I voted for the last three options, I really don't find critisicm on Denmark a personal attack. I guess I don't have that patriotic feeling for Denmark, which in some cases can interpret a critique of Denmark as a critique of oneself.... :blush:
In fact, I often myself can come up with loads of negative stuff about Denmark (also positive stuff of course)...as long as it is justified, or - well-argued. (I always apreciate a good argument to base ones stances).

Martyr
17-03-05, 07:14
Can I accept criticism? I live in America.... I'm the one dishin' it out! XD


Edit: By that I mean criticizing America.

Maciamo
17-03-05, 08:36
Can I accept criticism? I live in America.... I'm the one dishin' it out! XD

Edit: By that I mean criticizing America.

I don't know if you noticed that the question was "Do you accept easily foreign criticism...", so not from yourself or people living in your country.

digicross
17-03-05, 16:49
"Criticism" used to mean to discuss something that is important / critical, but now it's just another word for badmouthing and revealing one's shame.



I don't think that people mind at all at discussing important things, even with people outside the group.

Problems arise though if people start badmouthing and revealing one's shame.

Nothing good came out of badmouthing and revealing one's shame, unless of course if your intention is to make people fight each other.



It should be noted that there's no need for let say group A to comment to let say group B ways for group B to improve its conditions, unless it's also in the interest of group A.

Of course, if group A start saying nasty things about group B, you think that group B will just stand there? Chances that it will ignore any comments from group A, or even worse, start a war against group A.

It's not in group A best interest either to say nasty things about any group, unless it's a political move of group A or group A is just a mere puppet to say anything by the puppet master even if it means making the puppet doing a suicidal move.

In general, people are very selfish people, they don't say things to other people unless it will also do good to them, it's a symbiotic thing.

Now... If people start criticizing a.k.a. badmouthing other people and argue that it's not in their best interest to do so, one must be wary if there's a third party involved here that is trying to make people fight each other.



As for 'foreign criticism'.

Ha! That's a laugh, we know that all the world governments are under one ruler, there's no such thing as 'foreign'. The only 'foreign' in 'foreign criticism' probably is in the species definition.

Based on experiences, 'foreign criticism' is just another way of saying, this is one of the many ways to make people from many different countries fight each other.



As for me.

Personally, I don't like at hearing or reading people badmouthing, either at my own group or other people's group.

Remember the saying "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"?

Well... People should do more of that, and less "if you can't say anything bad, don't say anything at all".

Martyr
17-03-05, 23:12
I don't know if you noticed that the question was "Do you accept easily foreign criticism...", so not from yourself or people living in your country.
Quite honestly, I just read the title of this thread.

Brooker
18-03-05, 23:06
While in Japan I often heard criticism about America. I was there right as the war started. And, although I often agreed with what they we're saying, I didn't appreciate that they often seemed to be blaming me personally. Americans complain to eachother about the country often, but (I don't care who you are) it's harder to accept criticism from other nationals, so be careful when doing it. It's like, I can say something bad about my mother, but you can't. I would listen to what they had to say, until they crossed the line (so that's what I voted for).

TheKansaiKid
19-03-05, 10:11
while it would be nice and make me seem open-minded to say sure I accept it. I have to say honestly it really rubs me the wrong way. I love the US and like spirited political debates with my fellow Americans, but what might pass as "foreign criticism" feels like somebody badmouthing my wife. I might good naturedly tease my wife but woe be to the misguided ***** that badmouths her for I will set aside my good nature and (in the words of the waterboy) open a can of whoop ass on him. I know it's illogical to feel that way about your country, and while I know it (my country) makes a lot of mistakes and isn't perfect... I still love it

Mal
21-03-05, 18:57
I'm almost completely different from TheKansaiKid.

I love my country just as much as he does, but I not only encourge people (from everywhere) to voice their opinions (Even when it makes me so furious I have to leave, shut off the computer, or get away to avoid commiting violence), but I also encourge everyone I know to constantly question the status quo and to question the motives of our government.

My rational for this is that any government is made up only by men and they are fallable. We have to constantly question their motives and their integrity in order to keep them honest and to keep them working on the path of justice and liberty. I feel many Americans don't appreciate how incredible their civil liberties are and how blessed they are to enjoy such a high degree of freedom in this world. I feel often that they are complacent and lazy and willing to think lazy because "Thats the way things have always been" - atleast so long as they've been alive. To be honest, there are not many Americans these days that dare to question the future of the country in terms of examining if we will continue to enjoy our liberty or not.

My philosophy on such matters can be summed up in three quotes. One of them is from one of my favorite American thinkers and the other two predate our republic and stretch far backwards in time to another republic that has since faded into antiquity.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin.

"Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes." - Latin saying (Juvenal), translation: Who watches the watchmen?

"Qui tacet consentit." - Latin saying, translation: Silence implies consent.

Mal

sgt. Pepper
28-03-05, 01:26
I don't like when foreigners criticize my country, even if i criticize it a lot myself.

nurizeko
03-04-05, 17:50
valid criticism should know no boundries, i critisize britain 9my country) japan, america, and every other country i feel deserves it.

i dont really enjoy the company of someone who takes such personal offense at a criticism of their conutry, i think thats pretty moronic attitude, unless they mistake their country as themselves.

i also hate rampant patriotism, ide die for my country in the right circumstances if i absolutely had to but it doesnt mean im going to fall out with someone for saying what they think of my country.

Mycernius
03-04-05, 18:26
I can usually take criticism of my country. I'm English, we had all the woes of the modern world put at our door. Poverty in Africa to the Arab/ Israeli conflicts have all been blamed on British past foriegn policies. As long as the critics are balanced and fair to the judgements they are making on my country. Even our own government has criticised this country. We have done bad things in the past and they do deserve to be looked at. What I do object to is just attacks made against this country that are without any reason except the person doesn't like Britain or the English. Ignorance is not an excuse for slagging any country off or its people. I might lapse occassionally, but I try to maintain a sense of decorum and try not to resort to general name calling.

Shas
20-04-05, 01:11
im german. hit me in the face with it.
-_-


no seriously, i believe criticism is a good think as long as its productive and justified.

lolife
02-05-05, 04:12
I voted 5, 8 and 9, as they all were true. I'm actually really interested of how other percieve my country, good or bad, and I also criticise it myself often, as the way to utopia is to never be satisifed.

:-)

But people should also accept my views back if we're on the subject. And of course, it is always nicer if the criticism is somewhat substantiated at least, which works both ways.

SirJeannot
05-05-05, 22:54
im german. hit me in the face with it.
-_-
no seriously, i believe criticism is a good think as long as its productive and justified.
almost the same, but the fact is that i would (and i'm dont) feel concerned by the criticism about my country. i remember the us news making fun of "my" country (understand just the area i live in right now) about some strike taking place again, and in these situation, i feel really, really ashamed to be a representant of the country when i'm abroad :okashii: .
in fact, some things disgust me so much that i'd be ready to move in another country (as long as i know the language, that's fine :-) ).

acquiredtarget
06-05-05, 04:41
I also believe that constuctive criticism is good. I also understand that not everyone will like a country for whatever reason. I've had discussions with several people (about 5 or 6) from different countries about the U.S. They all pointed out what they felt was "bad" about the U.S. but they refused to talk about what they felt was "good". Now whether this was because they just wanted to bash the U.S. or they never took that step to think about it, I don't know. I just think the effort should be made to understand both the good and the bad.

That being said, I will admit to a huge ignorance on my part about many countries in the world. One of me routines is to read newspapers from various countries to try and learn about the good and the bad of other countries.

CreativeChaos
24-07-05, 17:54
I voted that I can accept criticism as long as it is justified. But the word "justified" can be very subjective. When is someone "justified" in criticising or not? I do certainly wish that foreigners would use "the American government" when they are criticising. It feels, these days, that we the American people are targeted. It also depends on which "foreigner" is doing the criticising. If you see my post on "The Clash of Cultures" you will see that certain cultures will clash more than others. So if an Islamic person criticizes America and the government it would be seen by most as almost "terrorist". If a European criticizes America, then that is certainly tolerable. So, it kinda depends on which foreigner is doing the criticism as well.

lexico
24-07-05, 20:01
I voted for the last option, "I am completely open to criticism from abroad and also criticize my own country a lot." I am a bit underread in politics and economy, so I am always willing to listen if it is truth and not an ignorant remark. Just because it is my government I will not be more tolerant of any laxity in the administration, public offices, the parliament, or the justice system. I guess I can be a bit wary of certain "criticisms" with a hidden agenda. If an argument means only to point out the shortcomings, I consider that good and even necessary. Nevertheless I will be highly beligerent towards dishonest attacks for the purpose of diffusing an argument in vilolation of sound logical practice. I can defend any agenda, and criticise any, for the sole purpose of logic, (and perhaps truth if lucky,) for logic rules, (while truth evades,) yay, (oh) !

Duo
24-07-05, 20:57
lexico i'm confused about your nationality :p
is it south korea or wat :p ?

lexico
24-07-05, 21:25
Why are you confused ? S.Korean. Is that bad :? Why, o, why ? :D

Duo
24-07-05, 22:22
no no, by all means, i donna i always had the impression u were a foreigner residing in south korea, my fault :o

lexico
24-07-05, 23:02
NP, dude, and I'm full blooded... no genetic advantage by being mixed. :p I thought you meant I got too hot headed when I'm on the self-righteous warpath ! Hehe... :D

edit: It really is confusing at times. It does feel like im in the middle of America here... I'm not well-travelled btw... it could have been any Egnlish speaking country.

Duo
25-07-05, 00:49
no worries, sometimes i have serious questions about my identity, supposed to be south eastern european but don't fit the hairy steretype and a lotta of ppl mistake me for being dutch so I have deep issues to resolve within myself :p

pinkkillerkisou
25-07-05, 01:03
No... why would I need to accept? I'm the one criticizing. :D

(I picked the last option in case that wasn't obvious. :p)

lexico
25-07-05, 01:10
no worries, sometimes i have serious questions about my identity, supposed to be south eastern european but don't fit the hairy steretype and a lotta of ppl mistake me for being dutch so I have deep issues to resolve within myself :pI understand. I know what it feels like to be surrounded by people who look different. Also to be constantly misidenfitied is not such a positive think unless of course you've developed a special kind of humor to not let it be a problem no more.

I was goin to post something related in one of the "racism" threads, and the idea has been quoted, too. Let me paraphrase it (you probably know this already)

"The variation between different racial/national/ethnic groups is less than the wide range found within any one racial/national/ethnic group."

I for one was rarely identified as Korean either in West coast US where there's a highly Asian population; some of my friends made fun of me for looking like a Tartari -- I've never seen one, but I guess I'll just look in a mirror if I get really curious. :D

lexico
25-07-05, 01:15
No... why would I need to accept? I'm the one criticizing. :D

(I picked the last option in case that wasn't obvious. :p)Right. "International call from Japan, will you accept ?"
Just say no, or return with a punch in the nose, lay him flat on the gorund, step mightlily on his lamed body, and stand proud and tall overbearing on the undeserving basher of the great faterland saying, "No one, I repeat, NO ONE criticized except me, me, me !" :D

Xkavar
11-08-05, 01:52
You want to bash the country? That's fine with me. All countries act stupid, it's a universal trait.

Just don't insult my mother.

Mars Man
11-08-05, 02:51
I was a sittn' right there, smack dab on the middle of the fence between them thar last two-s, and so-s I just kind of said, " Ah, what all the ruckus, I'll go for the last one."

I've always have been one of these 'on the outside edges of the norm' type folks--my father was, get this, military (ain't knocking that, though, mind you), religious, and a "God" and country barbershop quartet singer--but now it looks like I have finally made my way into the 'in' crowd. Thanks everyone.

Realistically, I'd actually prefer to think of my country as the world (not the USA) and my governent as the UN (but that body may not be totally free from scandel either).

WE ARE THE WORLD !! (I came from Mars & I love it here)

Mikawa Ossan
24-09-05, 08:17
Why not? My native country is not a perfect place, and neither are the people or leadership. No country is exempt from criticism, INHO, including my own.

Minty
23-10-06, 23:37
I voted for "I don't mind, but they should also accept criticism from us or others."
I think if people are over doing it and don't criticize others and most of the time only mine I feel that they have something against me and my people or my countries.

Soriori
27-10-11, 17:59
I chose the last one.

LeBrok
13-11-18, 02:28
Nice to see that most people voting are open minded.