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Doc
11-03-05, 19:47
Since's Smoke had raised the issue of what we think that love is, I thought I would go one step further with that. In my English Literature II class, we have been currently reading the short novelization of the science fiction classic "Dio". My professor raised an interesting question in the class today that I thought I'd share with you. The question was, "If you were immortal, or better yet, if you could live to be over one thousand years old, would you still stay with that one person you love? In essence, is love for a person eternal, can it last that long? If so why? If not, then would only "true love" be the sole thing to keep two people together? In short, could you stay with the same person for a thousand years?

Most of the students in my class said no. As a matter of fact, a bunch of the girls snickered, and whispered to one another that they'd cheat on their love after twenty years, if not before then. I mean who could stay with the same person all that time? You need new people for sex. Screwing the same person for a thousand years would suck.

Now personally in my opinion I think it could and could not happen. To me it would depend on three little factors that would have to be pretty strong for it to stay together for that long amount of time. They are: initmacy, passion, and committment. If you could reinvent those three things, especially passion (sex), then I think it could last. However, given that we are human beings, and human beings are prone to error, and since human beings are lustful, deciteful, and cheating creatures towards one another, I think it would also be impossible for something like to last. I really all depends on the couple, situations at hand, and how they can get past them.

So what is your take on this? Do you think it could last, or would you cheat the first chance you got? Is it an impossible feat that humans can never grasp, or can it truly happen depending on the individual at heart? Since this is a serious question and supposed to make people think, that's the reason why I posted it here. Personally I'm waiting for our resisdent empericist Maciamo to rant and rave about this one.:-) So, let's get going on the debate shall we?:wave:

Doc:ramen::happy:

smoke
12-03-05, 19:49
an interesting question indeed.

i think it also raises other questions.
what is 'true love'?
can anything be eternal?

looking at it in a literal sense. there are things that may last for a thousand years but over time are weathered and changed by the life around it. and i think the same may apply to love...or any other feeling or emotion.

it is rare that anything may last forever or even a thousand years in the same condidtion as when it was first created, unless it was to be kept in a 'bubble'.
if your love is free from outside interference or even a knowledge that there is an alternative (for example, no media or outside world contact) it may stay intact. but as long as we know that there is something different as to what we have, i believe no...love can not be eternal. at least not in it's initial form.
as anyone in (or has been in) a long term relationship will know 'love' changes from it's initial inauguration and although it may still exist after 1000 years it would almost definately be in a diferent state.
however, even if your love had been kept in this 'bubble' it may still fade or even die. it's natural that what we want as humans changes over time and unless our 'love' changes with us or becomes something that we want in each particular stage in our life (physical or otherwise) it's possible, if not probable that the love would end long before 1000 years.
of course there is always a false sense of love. for example it is easier to stay with the same person forever rather than try to find something better (i use the term better loosely). a comfortable situation.
but this may be me being cynical.

this is my opinion though.
an excellent question all the same!
i hope an answers posted here help you in your class! :cool:

lexico
12-03-05, 23:29
At first love eternally seemed like a difficult question.
But once I realized that what's more important is finding what is worth doing for 1,000 yrs, it didn't bother me any more.
A good goal to work at would keep me busy and happy.
Nothing sucks more than having too much time; bored and having nothing to do. Then love will also suck.
I also think that sharing values is important for trust, respect, and genuine affection.
That provided, I think a 1,000 yrs with one person wouldn't be much of a problem.
What is love ? Living life to the full is in the greatest sense love half accomplished.
I do not value love beoynd what it deserves.
Hence the question is not a fundamentally difficult one to answer.

isayhello
13-03-05, 00:41
Also depends on the time passing; a thousand years is a long, almost eternal passing of time in our current way of looking at it. Should we get a thousand years to live, and also to love a person - I'd say almost everyone of us would cheat on the person we were to love. That amazing amount of time would make us bored, and we would probably try and make the time pass quicker by changing our lives now and then. We'd move, seek new faces and new parters. We'd constantly want something new. I'd say, the longest a pair could stay together is in a lifetime long relationship - which normally lasts about 50-60 years. If we were to suddenly be given a thousand years to live, the "normal" life-long relationship of 50-60 years would still be the longest possible time we'd stay true to our partners. A lot of people, obviously, have a hard time staying with and loving one person even in those 50 years...

Some people have a harder time than others to get into a "pattern", where they do the same thing over and over and almost ALL people need some change once in a while. I'd say a thousand years, for a human, would make it impossible for a person to stay with one person and love them all the time.

If it was, that a thousand years was the normal lifespan (is that the word?) of a human, then the "eternal" love - or the love for a thousand years - would probably be as possible as the current life-time long love...
As soon as something gets boring and usual, many people tend to try and move on or try something new - for some it might be a matter of a few years, for others a thousand...
I'd say eternal love was impossible.

Doc
13-03-05, 04:49
In the story "Dio" there are two classes of people: The Players and The Students. The Players are the ones who do nothing but play all day. The Students work, and keep the world going. The Students are also the ones who tear down cities and rebuild them in new fashion, style, etc. to keep The Players from being bored with life. My professor had asked that if you were rich, could live that long, and had a yaht how long would it take before you'd sink it and buy a new one? In short, humanity doesn't change, but rather the external world around them. Because of this humans must adapt, and in essence change things to keep from being bored.

Personally I don't think it's impossible for you not to stay with the same person for that long of a life span, but I think you would have to constantly reinvent the relationship to keep it going. Sexual patterns, working patterns, initmacy patterns etc. A person would have to constantly change the rules of the relationship as the relationship itself changes. We as humans think that we can always put new and interesting things in our lives. If you think about it, things don't change as much as you think they do. For example, people cheat on their lover for another one. What's different? Body? Person? Sex? What? If you think about it humans still stay the same in a lot of aspects. Our expectations will stay the same, we just want a new face to keep the boredom away that's all. So what I'm saying is, why screw around with another person who in probably a lot if not most aspects be a lot like your previous partner, when instead you can just reinvent yourself with the current relationship? It's not impossible you know. Humans just don't want to work on it that's all.

Personally I think it could be done. You as a person just need to change the rules of the relationship as the relationship itself changes. There are people who are in there hundreds, still alive, who are still married. Why is it? Some say it could be survival, others would have different arguments. Me? I think it's because they were able to reinvent themselves as their love changed and matured. If there is such a thing as true love and devotion, then I think that would be it. Nothing is impossible, we just need to apply ourselves that's all.

Doc:ramen::happy:

Index
13-03-05, 05:20
I agree that it's possible, but it can be impossible too. A relationship depends on both partners, and if one person wants out (whether consciously or unconsciously), no amount of attempts at reinventing are going to help. This is one of the things that I have been thinking about recently, that depite your best efforts, all relationships depend on both parties involved.

Having said that, Lexico raised a good point in saying that if you are happy, what you can contribute to the love will be positive. The rest depends on your partner's wants and needs, and as Smoke said, love, like anything else develops and changes, so who knows how the two of you will feel in five hundred years.

The significance and relative importance of sex changes with age too, so I don't think that would be a major factor, although I agree with you Doc that you need to work on it and change it around if you want to maintain the thrill.

isayhello
13-03-05, 20:46
You are right, Doc, but... simply changing oneself isn't that easy, and most people would rather change partner than reinvent themselves in the relationship they're in. People tend to seek the solution to the problem not by looking at themselves and trying to change that, but looking at and blaming their surroundings. I think when love started to feel boring or old, most people wouldn't think about changing themselves with the person they love, but would start looking for something new. To reinvent yourself is a good idea, and would probably work better, but that's not usually what people tend to do. They look beyond themselves to look for the solution to the problem. They'd probably blame the partner or the place they currently lived, and sat they wanted to "move on" and "see new places" - and then they'd do just that and be happy (or unhappy) with their new life, untill they wanted to change it again...
You with me?

Doc
13-03-05, 22:30
I agree that it's possible, but it can be impossible too. A relationship depends on both partners, and if one person wants out (whether consciously or unconsciously), no amount of attempts at reinventing are going to help. This is one of the things that I have been thinking about recently, that depite your best efforts, all relationships depend on both parties involved.

Having said that, Lexico raised a good point in saying that if you are happy, what you can contribute to the love will be positive. The rest depends on your partner's wants and needs, and as Smoke said, love, like anything else develops and changes, so who knows how the two of you will feel in five hundred years.

The significance and relative importance of sex changes with age too, so I don't think that would be a major factor, although I agree with you Doc that you need to work on it and change it around if you want to maintain the thrill.

Oh I know it takes two for it to change. A relationship is a partnership, and both must be willing and able to change themselves to keep the love going strong. I remember my professor saying that if there was such a thing as true love, then that's what he has with his wife. Most of the people laughed at the notion, but when he explain his marriage I could see why. Him and his wife have a more spiritual love than a physical love. Oh there's still sex, it's that both of them don't look at one another for just physical comfort, but beyond that. Personally, I would agree that what my professor has could be considered as true love. It's the few and far inbetween who I think can get it.


You are right, Doc, but... simply changing oneself isn't that easy, and most people would rather change partner than reinvent themselves in the relationship they're in. People tend to seek the solution to the problem not by looking at themselves and trying to change that, but looking at and blaming their surroundings. I think when love started to feel boring or old, most people wouldn't think about changing themselves with the person they love, but would start looking for something new. To reinvent yourself is a good idea, and would probably work better, but that's not usually what people tend to do. They look beyond themselves to look for the solution to the problem. They'd probably blame the partner or the place they currently lived, and sat they wanted to "move on" and "see new places" - and then they'd do just that and be happy (or unhappy) with their new life, untill they wanted to change it again...

Oh I got you, no doubt about it, and I agree too. Most humans are bound to the physical pleasures in life. Rather than applying themselves further on, humans just take what the physical world gives us and to hell with everything else. I think the problem with most of humanity is that we don't want to use the brain that God gave us, and actually apply change to ourselves. Humans can change, it's just a lot of hard work. I should know because I've changed myself in ways I don't think any normal person could do both emotionally, psychologically, and physically. It is a lot of hard work, but I'll tell you something it really pays off in the end.:-) If most humans could grasp that concept, apply it, and not give up, I bet you the divorce rate on cheatings would go down.:-)

Doc:ramen::happy:

smoke
16-03-05, 00:37
thinking about this...would the response to this thread be different if you had posted this in the 1940's for example (technically impossible but bear with me!).
i think attitudes to relationships have changed over generations...i think my generation for example has a more 'free'outlook on love and relationships and it is more common for someone of my age in this time to have had numerous sexual or love partners...whereas 60+ years ago, relationships (from what i know) tended to be more monogamous.
whether after eternity (or a 1000 years) a couple would still be in love would be questionable, but with a 1940's lifestyle, it is possible that they would remain together.

'isayhello'
...off topic, but i wanted to say how good it is to see you posting here in this part of the forum. your opinions are honest and (i imagine) heart felt and, in my opinion, always welcome. :cool:

Mycernius
16-03-05, 14:37
I think in some cases love can be eternal. If you found that one special person, your love for each other should be beyond the physical. A lot of couples get married and stay together for their entire lives. My Grandmother was married for about 50 years when my Grandfather died. She still loved him 20 years later and missed him. If love isn't eternal we wouldn't have this feeling for people for this amount of time. If you lived a 1000 yrs (latest research into stem cells say this could be possible) you would still love your children, surely. There have been cases with couples when one dies the other soon follows. Almost as if their lives have no more meaning without their partner.
I think some people are having a problem of separating physical love from spiritual love. If you really love someone, you could do it without sex. After all you love your children and other family members, and that isn't physical (I hope not, anyway)

digicross
17-03-05, 18:00
God's love is eternal.

But anti-theist (NOT atheist, but anti-theist) would object to do that.

"Dio" of course is Italian for "God".



Anyway. You can't love other people else unless you loved them like you love yourself, yiou can't love someone else unless you love yourself.

Is your love eternal? Only if you keep loving yourself.



It should be noted that there's a different between love and romantic affair, people tend to confused the two because of the currrent propaganda to blur the two. The differences between now and a half century ago or even a century, many people back then know the differences between love and romantic affair.

Suffice to say, if someone want to live a long life and be with someone or know someone for a long time, One need to think more of love than romantic affair. In love, there's no such thing as jealousy, monopoly over someone, and so on.



As for a 1000 years or so of lifetime.

Hmmm... Better ask that to Methuselah, he lives around 969 years.



As for keeping us from being bored.

Well... I think that Adam is pretty much bored, until he got a mate. From there on, he keep getting into and out mischevious troubles.

There's one thing certain that will always make a man's life interesting, and that is woman (or women).

Nightwalker
03-04-05, 21:56
I'm probably not very smart as most of you on this but I'll shall what I believe. Kay's. Well, I think that love is eternal. If you truely feel something for someone and you couldn't dream of being with anyone then it must be a true love that will always be there. I don't know. Me just going on about nothing really. But, I'm in a situation where I am in love for the first time. I've never felt this way about anyone in my life and I realized it when I cried for the first time because of someone that made me very happy. Then slowly I began to fall for him and I knew I had to be in love. When I told him my whole body was shaking furiously. I have never felt that way before. I was very happy though afterwards because he felt the same...I'm sorry. Hahaha. Going on about myself but I guess that's why I believe that if I lived forever. I would want to spend my eternal days with only him. The only person I would really want to be with. No one else matters but him to me.

Sorry if I seem to repeat myself.

Eldritch
21-05-13, 01:45
No. I don't even believe in "love" in general. Well, I know that parents can love their children, and there can be the "friendship" type of "caring", but not the romantic type of love.
Most couples break up anyway. Have you ever heard of someone dating for 5 years? Usually the highest number of years you hear is 2. Most couples break up.
And those that don't, and get married, well, you do know how high the divorce rate is, right?
There is no point in relationships, they are a complete waste of time. I mean seriously, what is the point? You don't gain money from them, unless the other person marries you and they are super rich, so what is the point? It's gonna end anyway, and most of the endings aren't exactly pretty... why would anyone want that?

And besides, it's sooo easy to lie and cheat. You can't trust anyone no matter what. They may seem sweet and all to you, but hey anyone can be sweet upfront and talk sh!t behind your back and just want to use you. It's too easy!
Love doesn't exist.
Relationships are pointless.
And besides, I also want my freedom.

adamo
21-05-13, 03:53
That's a depressing point of view, at least try to be more positive : ) they do work sometimes.

LeBrok
21-05-13, 04:35
I agree that love is not eternal. Love needs constant attention and care. Likewise relationships need a lot of work, compromises, respect and dedication. When right elements are in place it works very well.

In past families were kept together by strong patriarchal unilateral powers (man was the king of family, period). Today it is more tricky when two sides, man and woman, have same rights and powers, and both need to be happy.
Try to find a partner of same life goals and views. The base of great relationship.

Cambrius (The Red)
24-05-13, 05:41
Love needs to be nourished...

julia90
31-05-13, 16:57
love isn't the only thing in a couple.. charachter compatibily is one other big point.. i spilt up one week ago for carachetrial incomapitibilities.. two year of a relationship..

Grubbe
01-06-13, 21:12
Eternity is a long time. But as a believer in reincarnation, I think that you can love the same souls for a very long time, but not necessarily always as in a man/woman relationship. But even so, I don't think that even this love is "eternal", but that we end up with a feeling of "good-will" after the karma is paid.

walidur
11-07-13, 18:42
What kind of love are you talking about? If you you mean love as in the sexual side of it, then no it isn't eternal.
Sexual attraction doesn't last for ever, because people will eventually get bored with eachother and just move on.

Loving someone as a friend or familiy member is a different thing though. This can last for all eternity.