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View Full Version : What would you do... when you where in this position?



Dutch Baka
03-04-05, 21:44
In the last couple of weeks the story about Terri Shiavo was in the news almost everyday, not just in america but every where in the world... for people who dont know terry shaivo, i will tell them about her a bit :
http://www.hln.be/hln/artikels/foto/large_30444.jpg

Terri Shiavo spent the last 15 years of her life in a persistent vegetative state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_vegetative_state), because of a heart attack in 1990 her braind was dammage badly.

Many forms of rehabilitation were attempted in the first years of Terri's condition, but she did not respond or recover. It is reported that nearly all of the settlement has now been spent on rehabilitation attempts, and continuing care.

Terri is was in a hospice. Several doctors, including those appointed by the courts, have pronounced her to be in a "persistent vegetative state". However Terri parents have hired doctors that claim that Terri has a consciousness.

Terri was unable to eat or swallow, and is being kept alive by means of a feeding tube. Her husband, Michael Schiavo has sought for years to remove the feeding tube and allow Terri gdie naturallyh. In other words to starve to death.

Michael Schiavo, her husband and legal guardian, contends that he carried out his wife's wishes not to be kept alive in her vegetative state. Mrs. Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and her brother and sister dispute Mr. Schiavo's position. The parents vigorously appealed the decisions, leading to the reinsertion of the feeding tube on two separate occaisions. The courts all ruled in favor of Mr. Schiavo, and the feeding tube was removed a third and final time.

Please forgive me, if i made mistakes in this story..or people dont understand it good yet... have a look on her foundation website to see the movies- the story's etc etc her website (http://www.terrisfight.org/)




what do you guys/girls think of what happend?

what would you do when you when your loved one, is in a coma, or a persistent vegetative state...?? would you choose to let here live... ? who should have the right to say this... the parents or the husband?

lexico
03-04-05, 23:33
That is a difficult question indeed. I have not been following the news, and was deeply moved at such a thing happening. According to the photo, Terri seemed to have a clear mind, even capable of joy. Just because she had lost her reflexes, couldn't mean she didn't have consciousness or a personality. It would be hard to prove that she could wish something if she were unconsious. Could it be that the court was making allowences for Terri's wish to be unplugged ? If so, this would be the first case of Kevorkian type suicide (Euthanasian prescription by patient's request) on humanitarian grounds approved by the court. I really can't say much. :?

Brooker
04-04-05, 00:41
I'd do just what they did. She was really already dead, just an empty shell. So many people made such a big deal about how she should die "when God wanted her to" but, following that logic, "God had already called her home" since she couldn't survive without a feeding tube. The whole thing was such a ridiculous media circus.

Lexico wrote...

According to the photo, Terri seemed to have a clear mind, even capable of joy. Just because she had lost her reflexes, couldn't mean she didn't have consciousness or a personality.
Don't let the photo fool you. She was always making that face. Her brain had basically been liquified.

If so, this would be the first case of Kevorkian type suicide on humanitarian grounds approved by the court.
Not really. This was not assisted suicide, but rather stopping medical care, which has very different moral implications and is legal under current laws.

Shas
04-04-05, 00:45
did you see the southpark episode about it? ( ... )

well i think they could have put her to rest by another method than starvation (cardiac arrest ...) but i think there's no point in keeping somebody from dying if hes never going to rehabilitate

Dutch Baka
04-04-05, 00:46
so why did her parents let her live? they thought there was still hope?? ( how can you have hope that she is waking up after 15 years???)

south park makes jokes about this... ( sorry something in live are to serieus sometimes... my opinion ...)

CC1
04-04-05, 00:50
I have to agree with brooker completely! I will also throw in that I believe the husband had the right to make the decision. It had been 15 years. She decided that she loved him enough to marry him and spend her life with him, therefore she trusted him to make the decision for her.

Frank D. White
04-04-05, 01:10
Chances are, if you have one, it might be outdated if it's over 3 years old.
As the say in my business, if it isn't documented on paper, it didn't happen. It's also a nice idea to get it down on paper if you want to be an organ donor. Your untimely death might allow another to survive death,live better or see. Your wishes should be where they can be found quickly in an emergency. Many areas have a program where you put a copy of your living will in the freezer section of your refridgerator for an ambulance attendant to locate fast. Your lawyer, doctor, close friend or a relative should all have a copy of your wishes. Better you make your wishes known on paper, then have people fighting over what to do with you and your body parts when you are not able to speak for yourself. If you're over 18(or legally an adult where you reside) you should get something down on paper; it's not a subject you should avoid for emotional reasons. Avoid a mess being left to your spouse, close friend, or relative; check into it ASAP !

Frank

:blush:

Brooker
04-04-05, 01:21
As a result of the Shiavo case, my mother has asked me to make out a will. I know I'm young, but it's the young people in comas who get fought over, not the old people. And, with my family, it would be a huge fight. My father is very religious and would want me kept alive no matter what and my mother is not religious and would be more inclined to pulling the plug if there was no chance of a recovery. So it's probably best if I just tell them what I would want. Having to think about the possibility of being in a coma doesn't really bother me. If it happens, then I'm prepared, if it doesn't, then I didn't loose anything by preparing for it.

Dutch Baka
04-04-05, 01:23
i agree with you frank... that write it down is the best idea... but shouldnt you do it officialy? i mean just a paper, is not the thing.... you should write an official one that in my country cost around 300dollar...

just something i heard ( im just 20.... hehe, so i havnt been in to this things.... i should be YOUNG and Stupid first... to get Old and wise...) so please tell me...

Brooker
04-04-05, 01:36
It probably would help to just email your wishes to your loved ones. Usually they just have to speculate about what the person would want or remember conversations they had with the person on the subject, but if they have an email that they know came from the person in the coma, then they'd have a pretty good idea of what to do and what the wishes were.

P.S. I just did it.

Frank D. White
04-04-05, 02:03
i agree with you frank... that write it down is the best idea... but shouldnt you do it officialy? i mean just a paper, is not the thing.... you should write an official one that in my country cost around 300dollar...

just something i heard ( im just 20.... hehe, so i havnt been in to this things.... i should be YOUNG and Stupid first... to get Old and wise...) so please tell me...

Most hospitals and doctors offices will give you a form for free. My guess is we will see software for sale everywhere soon to print up living wills.Usually you need to have the forms notarized and a couple witnesses to sign them. A family doctor should be able to help you go through the process cheap and painlessly.Ask around till you find someone who can tell you how. It could save you problems down the road.

Frank

cicatriz esp
04-04-05, 03:48
Her cerebral cortex had liquified. She had no mind, and could not feel pain. Would you want to live like this?

Flashjeff
05-04-05, 11:25
so why did her parents let her live? they thought there was still hope?? ( how can you have hope that she is waking up after 15 years???)

I'm not an expert on this topic, but I think it was partly from misguided hope that Terri would eventually wake up, even though there was no chance of that and partly to battle Terri's husband who they had no love for and didn't believe his claim that their daughter didn't want to live as a vegetable. At the end, the Schindlers were openly delusional about Terri's chances of recovery when she was nothing more than an empty shell, and had been since 1990.

I also echo the sentiments about the importance of establishing a living will so you or your loved ones don't go through that sort of anguish.

life
13-04-05, 15:52
Honestly, if I were in her husband's position, i won't remove her feeding tube for her life is not for me to take no matter how painful it is for me, seeing her in that condition. nonetheless, i understand her husband's position and i respect the views of those who sided with him. i know i don't have any right to question nor doubt about his intention. what i will do? i'll pray to God, that if her time hasn't come yet, that God will spare her from the agony of what she is going thru.i remember when i brought my father to the hospital. my heart bled and i felt like i wanted my father to just pass out seeing him with all those gadgets and tubes to keep him alive. there was even a time when his feeding tube got removed so they had to do it again and i just wished for God to spare him from all the pains. it felt like there was no hope left but i just put evrything in God's hands. And I thank God for His grace. We were able to take him home, he got better after almost 4 weeks in the hospital and in nearly coma state. Of course, he died a week after.. a day after he and my mom celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. It was kinda miracle. That day he seemed like he weren't sick at all. While he was still in the hospital, we could have allowed the unplugging of the respirator. Some of my siblings were open to that, so it is in this light that i say that i understand the position of Terri's husband. But i begged for them not to allow it and just let him stay and leave his fate to God. I am happy for that. When he died in our arms, I know he died peacefully and he has fully accepted that it was already time to go. Sorry for my lengthy disclosure.