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Maciamo
09-04-05, 13:31
I was watching a Japanese TV programme with many famous "tarento" on Fuji TV called めちゃ×2イケてる!and couldn't help noticing how many such programmes in Japan made fun of the "stars" (tarento)'s own stupidity (eg. they were asked to translate very easy English sentences like "where are you looking at?" and completely mistranslated). I just stopped watching as it doesn't make me laugh to see people's stupidity, especially if they are rich and famous TV stars (as they shouldn't be the dumbest people in their country). I have a good sense of humour, but not for such things.

What about you ? Can you laugh at people's ignorance or stupidity ?

Martyr
09-04-05, 15:13
Yes. It's totally circumstancial though. Don't ask me what those circumstances are though, I wouldn't know where to begin to explain.

alexriversan
09-04-05, 15:15
i can easily laugh at WWF, but i do not tune to it intentionally. recently it was on, the bodyguards attacking the (insane stupid) judge and all these things- it is artificial stupidity however.

real stupidity is a great problem, using words which are not known, it is so easy to look them up. even intelligent people with degree etc. are doing it.

i know this is criticising...a wrong world. i experience it as wrong.

lexico
09-04-05, 16:59
Basically I classify those as symbolic slapstick. Those kind usually give me unhealthy goosebumps at first sight, so I avoid them. However, if I linger on to the show, my shallowness lets me join in on the hidden humor. In other words, outward stupidity sometimes hides true intellegence which overcomes the numb-sculled show layout. Basically it's unpredictable from a mere glance. Some do make me feel nauseous, and make me wonder, is there nothing getter to do ? The world must have become quite boring to make such time-killers, joy-killers of bad first taste & after taste.

But like I said, some are good because of some wit shining thru. It's just a bad profile. They must think easy is good. Multi layered stupidity must be rather hard to come up with. Charlie Chaplin was slapstick, yet full of passion, strong & persistent in theme, and varied in technique, which makes it multilayered, and enjoyable on many levels. Stupidity is only enjoyable when it is unintentional in its original setting and in the means of mediating it. Funniest videos & flashes are often distasteful because they are offered with the purpose of entertaining.

Children and animals are more forgiveable; yet even those leave a doubtful aftertaste when it has gone outside the home or the playground. Nothing is as good as the unexpected, the spontaneous; whether it is laughter, surprise, indignation, support, pitty, learning, a familiar face, a friend, or love. Who can plan these things, put a price tag on it, and sell them for the assessed dollar value ?

Yes. It's totally circumstancial though. Don't ask me what those circumstances are though, I wouldn't know where to begin to explain.Well put. though your use of two thoughs confuses me and forces me to classify.
1. circumstances fitting, yes you can laugh.
1A. Although you said 1., you cannot define what those circumstances are.
2. Although you said 1., circumstances unfitting, no you cannot laugh.
2A. Although you said 2., you cannot define what those circumstances are. :relief:

it is artificial stupidity however.

real stupidity is a great problem, using words which are not knownI admire your deep thoughts; they give me a healthy smile which cures the unhealthy goosebumps from the unhealthy bamboo shows. You really care about things don't you ? Yet, although I basically agree with your logic that real stupidity is genuinely saddening, as for the kind of artificial stupity; shouldn;'t they be stopped somehow ?

I often find myself hating those shows. I enjoy some, but most are made with quick money for the quick money just to fit in those golden hours because they have nothing better to do. Or do you think it is the shallowness of the audience that makes those stupid shows ? The producers (the big players) know exactly what they are doing; they're just making a convenient excuse blaming it on the audience who really aren't that picky; neither too dumb nor too smart.

I think they are just too lazy to make anything creative; they probably could be creative, but not every week or every day at the same hour. Maybe the TV airings should be restricted to relieve undue pressure to fill it with junk shows.... hahaha.....this is one of my most negative posts. Sorry for being such a downer ... :p

Martyr
09-04-05, 17:14
Well put. though your use of two thoughs confuses me and forces me to classify.
My bad. I haven't slept yet and I want some Georgia MAX Coffee.


Or Realgold. :happy:

lexico
09-04-05, 17:20
My bad. I haven't slept yet and I want some Georgia MAX Coffee.

Or Realgold. :happy:Don't apologize, I was just picking on you to be friendly; chimps call it grooming. Haha... And yes, coffee is the ultimate cure for sleepy heads like me, too.. Haha... :clap:

My favorite is Maxwell instant generic. I drink it for the caffeine btw. :biggrin:

alexriversan
09-04-05, 17:22
lexico,

i do not like a lot of things, including food varieties, clothing styles, dangerous sports, ill-fashioned literature...
it seems very logically to myself why i do not like these things.

sometimes people who like these things are as well bad as these things.
sometimes people are simply different.
sometimes these people do not like me too!

i have agreed as long there is a (somehow legal and serious) market for something, let it be. it employs and entertains people.

the advantage is, these things are "traps" and i can recognize such people.

rubbishing these things, including STUPIDITY, would be dictatorship.
i.e. things i do not like are rationalized towards to be somehow stupid.
things i like are not stupid, of course.

stupidity in language is very common, and this is the task of education. it is a job role which has a high level of responsibility.

sometimes i can laugh at stupidity.
sometimes i get angry about stupidity.
sometimes i let it go. i can do that.

Shas
09-04-05, 17:25
it's so unnecessary because most of the stars don't have to be tested to find out that their rich idiots (im talking about western stars since i don't know japanese ones :D

hmmm laughing about stupidity is funny but at some point it get's sad.

mad pierrot
09-04-05, 17:56
I find there are two kinds of ignorance/stupidity in life.

1. Lack of data- Don't hate the caveman because he can't start a fire.
2. Ignoring data- Creationists bashing evolution because it threatens their beliefs.

We can't do much about type 1. When it happens, it happens. All we can do is teach what we know and hope we'll keep learning. Type 2 is very, very dangerous. It's also very depressing to me. Life is so full of both of these, it can really get me down. At best, the future seems dim. But then I remember the absurdity of existence in general, take a step back from it and laugh, try to learn from my mistakes, and move on. If I couldn't laugh at it I'd go insane.


-----------------------------------
edit*

Perfect example: I misspelt ignorance in my first post!

:blush: :p :D

alexriversan
09-04-05, 18:21
2. Ignoring data- Creationists bashing evolution because it threatens their beliefs. :blush: :p :Dit is also called fanatism: accepting a wrong but easy answer (like racist etc.). it includes lack of attention, and negative intention towards the subject.

if it includes additional, general stupidity, it becomes:

ignoring data intentionally.
adding new, wrong data.

this produces new stupidity, but requires being very good in stupidity.

people are using words they often do not know at all*. if you look up a word (online), you decrease global stupidity. every little helps.

*the only thing which is posessed mentally is a very vague and narrowminded idea.

imagine a person who knows how to operate directory trees, but lives in a big city, and has never recognized a real tree. you get the point.

of course the real tree and the directory tree share identity. it provides good understanding, if the person views a picture of a real tree. this is not real data, but some sort of data.

or imagine a person who has never been in america, but knows america is bad. from pictures of light-clothed woman probably. this is actually very dangerous stupidity.

lexico
09-04-05, 19:02
I find there are two kinds of ignorance/stupidity in life.

1. Lack of data- Don't hate the caveman because he can't start a fire....
We can't do much about type 1. ...

edit* Perfect example: I misspelt ignorance in my first post!

:blush: :p :DI love this kind of stupidity, Mad Pierrot ! This is the best kind if you can really think hard about it. Now here's something positive about stupidity, whether laughable or not.

"Stupidity makes the person acting stupid look more human."

This has a relaxing effect; it gives the common emotional play ground for subaverage intelligence to participate. The average infant, baby, and child may not understand everything going on in the scary world, but it will definitely understand quite a bit of humor on the shows. The funny thing about funny shows is that you don't exactly have to understand everything in order to be able to laugh. A child can laugh its brains out in the company of roaring laughers. There's actually a very sad poem about a high-brow, well-bred, well-fed gentleman, unable to enjoy in the common joys of life, going out and ending his life. What can be sadder than that ? So there is this upside of stupid humor that can bring some good into the scary world where without it things can get maddening. I hope this makes up for my negative post. Hehe... :-)

Ma Cherie
09-04-05, 19:19
I can laugh at a person's stupidity sometimes. After awhile it just gets ridiculous. Especially that time when Jessica Simpson didn't know wether she was eating tuna or chicken. :okashii: But then, she's known for being an airhead. Even though this may not be true. But when you're a celeberty, I don't think people are interested in your intelligence. :?

Mycernius
09-04-05, 19:37
It depends on the stupidity or ignorance. I find what some children say very amusing because their perspective of the world is so different to an adults. What seems logical to them we find funny because we can see where their logic is coming from. Ignorance on gameshows can also be amusing when a contestant gets a really easy question amazingly wrong. The amusements probably comes from the fact that we feel for them, but we could never make that mistake. The point is we are not in their position and under pressure, so the laughter is a comfort thing to us. As for stupidity from doing wreakless things is probably more a relieve that they haven't killed themselves from what is a really stupid activity. Saying that I find the Darwin Awards are good for a laugh because you really can't believe these people were so stupid eg: the man who went fishing with electric cables. Throws the live cables into the water and it kills the fish that then float to the surface. He then goes to collect the fish, but forgets to switch the power off. Bang, flash one dead guy. The laughter in this case is more a disbelieving 'I can't believe he was so stupid' type of humour.
Humour itself has many varing forms, so the question you should ask yourself is what kind of laughter does stupidity and ignorance evoke from you? After all we don't laugh at train wreaks and human suffering. So when you see slapstick or a celebrity suffering are you laughing in sympathy, at them or relief? Remember humour is unique to people and what some might find sick and insensitive others find highly amusing.
I'm starting to not make sense so I'd better finish before I lose my train of thought altogether.

Doc
09-04-05, 21:03
For me it really depends on the person. For example the people on Jaywalking are amusing. Why? Because their stupidity astounds me on the fact that there are people in this world today who don't even know who our own president is. The Darwin Awards would be another example of stupidity in human society that you can't help but shake your head at. However, for the most part I don't laugh at people's stupidity, especially when it's celeberties, politicians, etc. Why? Because a camera is on them 24/7 just to watch them screw up. That's not funny at all in my opinion, plus I don't laugh at my friend's stupidity unless it's well deserved, including my own stupidity (yes I laugh at my own).

My overall funny bone has to deal with dark humor. I just find death and other things humorous. (call me psycho) I prefer dark humor and smart humor over stupid humor. Smart humor being something like the former Comedy Central show "Tough Crowd with Collin Quinn", and dark humor in something like "Postal 2". That's just who I am. I do like slapstick humor sometimes, but it depends on the comedian and the situation at hand.

Doc:ramen::happy:

Elizabeth
10-04-05, 02:06
I was watching a Japanese TV programme with many famous "tarento" on Fuji TV called めちゃ×2イケてる!and couldn't help noticing how many such programmes in Japan made fun of the "stars" (tarento)'s own stupidity (eg. they were asked to translate very easy English sentences like "where are you looking at?" and completely mistranslated). I just stopped watching as it doesn't make me laugh to see people's stupidity, especially if they are rich and famous TV stars (as they shouldn't be the dumbest people in their country). I have a good sense of humour, but not for such things.

What about you ? Can you laugh at people's ignorance or stupidity ?
First off there absolutely has to be a ceiling on what anyone should expect from a show with イケてる in the title.... :relief:....that being said, it is funny in a sense when you think of it from the perspective of a place where everyone thinks the same and shares this collective English phobia or lacking of deep understanding of any kind, really. Plus, celebrities are not as revered as in the US so making light of their language abilities becomes an easy and fun way to put not so scary perspective on those fears.

Funnier though is when variety show hosts insult their panel or members of the audience on their age, attractiveness etc that they don't have any control over. 'You're not such a musume anymore....or you're not as pretty as she is...' :lol:

Brooker
10-04-05, 02:34
Japanese humor often revolves around people acting/looking foolish or silly. I think it's just a style.

Maciamo
10-04-05, 03:16
Hmm, the discussion has taken a very different direction to what I intended. I suppose I wasn't clear enough about what I meant by stupidity/ignorance, so that the thread has become a problem of personal definition. In fact, that is why I took the example of the "tarento" on TV, and I hoped that everyone would understand I was talking about such kind of ignorance.

It is obvious that animals are ignorant compared to humans, and children are ignorant compared to adults, or that the cavemen were ignorant compared to us. But it was not the intended meaning of this thread (too obvious, and no need to talk laugh at such ignorance).

I am talking about "relative ignorance" (i.e. compared to the rest of the society where one lives and based on what we think is common knowledge or should be known by a particular group of people, e.g. politicians, TV tarento, business people, housewives, etc.).

For example, I would find it quite scary if lawmakers discussing health safety had no idea what they were talking about, and the law they passed had a negative effect on public health. Similarily, I wouldn't like scientists at a food company not knowing that some of the food additives they use is dangerous for health. This is no laughing matter.

Some people can laugh at others' mistakes and ignorance, but can be very defensive when it comes to themselves. Or at the contrary, don't mind being made fun of in public because they know they are not very intelligent, or think it's not such a big deal, but wouldn't laugh at other people's ignorance out of respect.

Maybe I should reformulate the question like this "Do you find it funny to watch people displaying their ignorance or stupidity publicly, such as in a humouristic TV programme or in an TV interview ?"

Regarding the choices, I wanted to nuance about the type of people that was being made fun of. So imagine all these people (including yourself) appear on TV and think whether you would find it funny or not to publicly display one's ignorance/stupidity.

Maciamo
10-04-05, 03:32
Japanese humor often revolves around people acting/looking foolish or silly. I think it's just a style.

Exactly ! So, my question in this thread is "do you like this kind of humour?" or else "Is it funny for you to look at people looking foolish, silly or ignorant?".

I found that Japanese TV programmes were often using people's actual ignorance, and not just silliness. My example in the first post is a quiz game with many "tarento", where people are asked so pretty easy questions, and if they can't answer, the presentator tease them and make them look even more stupid. I saw another programme with famous female idols asked to cook some dishes, and other "tarento" were asked to try them out. One of the girls was always made fun of because what she cooked was apprently inedible. It was not just an occasional show, but maybe once a month (always with idols cooking, being asked questions, etc.). It really made some of them look so stupid and incapable ! (but the Japanese seem to find it hilarious). There are many other similar TV programmes every day in Japan, so it is really one of the essence of Japanese humour. They even had a so-called "IQ game"; not a serious one of course, but people were still ranked by abilities, and those at the bottom were made fun of (and laughed themselves).

I just can't laugh at people's ignorance or lack of abilities, even for such things as cooking. I can't understand why the Japanese are so fond of it. I suppose it is due to a major cultural gap, namely that the Japanese do not attach much importance to knowledge and abilities, and do not find it embrassing, saddening or offensive to display people's lack of these in public.


Funnier though is when variety show hosts insult their panel or members of the audience on their age, attractiveness etc that they don't have any control over.

I also don't find it funny.

Elizabeth
10-04-05, 04:12
I just can't laugh at people's ignorance or lack of abilities, even for such things as cooking. I can't understand why the Japanese are so fond of it. I suppose it is due to a major cultural gap, namely that the Japanese do not attach much importance to knowledge and abilities, and do not find it embrassing, saddening or offensive to display people's lack of these in public.

I think they attach an unbelievably strong importance to being competent at something (ie not failing at careers, getting good school positions....) I've never even seen a lazy Japanese housewife so TV may be a refreshing diversion but if you can't point to regular people letting loose like that in everyday life comparisions become as empty as the shows themselves. Although a storehouse of knowledge and vast range of talents isn't merited as highly as in other places, my experience is that careless mistakes, such as in the language, will still be criticized or disrespected more than laughed at, perhaps even more with so much importance placed on acting out of deliberation and after a period of careful thought.

Brooker
10-04-05, 04:32
People often find humor in things that are taboo. So, maybe you're looking at it backwards. Maybe they find it funny because it's NOT accepted. They might make light of it on the shows, but maybe it's funny to them because it goes against how they would usually think/act. Humor is all about putting things that don't fit, together. I didn't find those shows funny, but that's because I didn't understand them well enough and I didn't have the cultural background to "get it". Humor doesn't usually make much sense between cultures. I think they tried to air "Seinfeld" in Japan and it didn't work at all because the Japanese couldn't figure out why it was supposed to be funny.

Maciamo
10-04-05, 04:54
I think they attach an unbelievably strong importance to being competent at something (ie not failing at careers, getting good school positions....)

Not failing at careers, getting good school positions, etc. is very different from being competent. I understand that the Japanese don't want to lose face in society, and care a lot about having a good job and money, but if they can achieve that without acquire much knowledge and abilities, then they are usually happy. Personally, I'd think the other way round. It is meaningless to have a good job, plenty of money. etc. if one remains ignorant or incompetent. Considering how easily the Japanese accept their own politicians' incompetence, their own ignorance of the world, etc. I am bound to think that they do not attach as much importance to knowledge or abilities as I do. At school, Japanese people often refrain from getting too high marks, just to stay in the class average. It is very important for the Japanese not to stand out. This way of thinking probably has deep effects on what people learn by themselves. There are few people like me who crave for knowledge, because that they would become different from the rest of the group.

misa.j
10-04-05, 05:01
I think they tried to air "Seinfeld" in Japan and it didn't work at all because the Japanese couldn't figure out why it was supposed to be funny.
I liked some of the episodes; my favorite was the one that Jerry gets mad at his landromat's owner for stealing his money, and Jerry and Kramer decide to pour cement in a washing machine.

Maciamo
10-04-05, 05:05
People often find humor in things that are taboo. So, maybe you're looking at it backwards. Maybe they find it funny because it's NOT accepted.

That would be ok if it was not directed at someone. But in Japanese shows it is directed at the people in the show. I can find it funny that someone has an accidental slip of tongue (e.g. some 'Bushism'), but not when the purpose of the show is to make fun of all the participants, especially that there is nothing else aside in those Japanese shows (so it becomes really boring, in addition to not being funny).


Humor is all about putting things that don't fit, together.

Some of these "tarento" are not known for anything else but being made fun of. Very pathetic, in my opinion.


Humor doesn't usually make much sense between cultures.

Of course, but there are also individual differences, not just cultural ones. In this thread I am interested to know who likes this particular type of humour. This way I will see if this humour is also considered funny outside Japan or not, and if so, where and among what kind of people.

Doc
10-04-05, 07:27
I liked some of the episodes; my favorite was the one that Jerry gets mad at his landromat's owner for stealing his money, and Jerry and Kramer decide to pour cement in a washing machine.

Seinfeld was an okay show. The only person I liked was Newman.:-) Personally there are shows even here in the US that aren't that humorous, or are just too politically correct to really have any humor in them. One show that I hated was Friends. :okashii: There are still stuipd people crying over it being off the air! :okashii: I really want to buy that t-shirt that says, "Friends is over. You can kill yourself now." :cool:

Doc:ramen::happy:

TheKansaiKid
10-04-05, 08:36
and many shows that may not completely be based upon the "stupid celebrity" concept have segments that seem to play along those lines. I don't enjoy this style of humor, but when I was in Japan I occasionally was going through the channels and would come accross a segment of "laugh at the ignorant celebrity" and it would make me chuckle to see someone acting so over the top stupid. Humor is very personal and what my wife (who is Japanese) and I find funny is very different. This of course has a cultural element, but I also have seen studies on how gender affects perception of humor as well so I am somewhat hesitant to generalize what causes these differences. I have been told that men find slapstick type humor more entertaining than women. In a college psych class I attended a proffessor showed us clips from the three stooges and Laurel and Hardy that he thought was comic genius. I chuckled the first time something oddball happened, but found 30 minutes of the stuff almost unbearable. Aren't these Japanese shows kind of 3 stooge-ish in nature? Can anyone really be as stupid as the front these people put on?

Then again maybe I just have a short attention span.

Maciamo
10-04-05, 09:50
This of course has a cultural element, but I also have seen studies on how gender affects perception of humor as well so I am somewhat hesitant to generalize what causes these differences.

There surely are differences between men and women, as male and female sensitivities and way of thinking are different. The cultural differences are acquired, not biological, but we could argue that different ethnic group have different sensibilities to humour, as the brain shape is different across races. Brain shape, size, acidity, sensitivity, etc, is also different between individuals, even between siblings, which is mostly what created differences in personality and sensitivity between all human beings.


I have been told that men find slapstick type humor more entertaining than women.

According to the BBC's Sex ID (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanb.../add_user.shtml) test, and the quite different test in Why men don't listen & women can't read maps (see explanation here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=181491&postcount=7)), my brain is quite masculine (about +50%, on a scale from -100 to +100). My favourite type of "TV humour" would be "Friends" (watched the 10 seasons several times, and laughed harder each time). I especially like the witty and unexpected remarks.

I am divided for the Monty Python, Austin Power or Mr Bean type of humour, which I can find hilarious, not bad or really too overdone and tiresome, depending on the scenes. I usually don't like gross humour (people falling on a banana peel, farting, getting a cream pie on the face, etc.) and laughing at people's ignorance/stupidity.

Doc
10-04-05, 09:56
I think that paticular culture demands over the top stupidity in their comedy. Now I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that in Japanese culture people shouldn't show their ignorance in public. Doing so only gets you mocked. I see why such shows in Japan are a hit. Personally I find them rather insulting, then again watching David Letterman making fun of our President's stupidity is rather amusing at times. However, I can only take so much before I call it a night. Sure a joke or two is funny, but these people have the camera on them all the time. With that in mind everybody sees the constant mistakes a celeberty makes.

People find that funny. You know what? Here's what you should do, you should take a camera and put it on an average citizen for a day and watch them screw up. I'm sure it wouldn't be too funny then. The point I'm trying to get at is that constantly making fun of celeberties with their mistakes is rather childish. They're just like you and me only in a different social class. That doesn't mean that they aren't prone to error, and neither does it mean that you aren't prone to error either. They should do something like EdTV to somebody. I think people will realize that we all are guilty of doing stupid or ignorant things no matter what the intelligence or social status of a person is.

Doc:ramen::happy:

TheKansaiKid
10-04-05, 10:02
I am divided for the Monty Python, Austin Power or Mr Bean type of humour, which I can find hilarious, not bad or really too overdone and tiresome, depending on the scenes.


I agree with you on the Python and Powers Movies, Mr. Bean I only saw the movie not the series and was less than impressed maybe the series was better.

My favorite comedy TV show was an American series called Tough Crowd it featured 4 comedians and a host debating current events and social issues. It was very irreverant and politically incorrect and was cancelled.:(

Maciamo
10-04-05, 10:11
Personally I find them rather insulting, then again watching David Letterman making fun of our President's stupidity is rather amusing at times.

I also don't mind that. There was such a programme in Japan a few weeks before the last presidential election. Shingo Katori (a member of the pop band SMAP) was making fun of a fake GW Bush. But this was funny because they were exxagerating the truth to absurd proportion. For example, the fake Bush said to the audience something like "Dear Japanese viewers, remember to vote for me on November 2nd". To which Shingo Katori would reply "But Mr President, you know that Japanese people can't vote for you at the US presidential election". Then Bush "You are kidding, right? (pause) Oh, you are serious? But Junichiro said he would vote for me.", etc. Because that was caricatural, I found it quite entertaining.

However, when you are making fun of the real people in front of you (not a character they are playing), and they genuinely don't know many things asked, there is no wit in the questions, all the people around laugh at them, and that is the sole purpose of the show, I don't find it funny.

mad pierrot
10-04-05, 10:24
Misconstrued the point of the thread. Gomen, ne!


Maybe they find it funny because it's NOT accepted. They might make light of it on the shows, but maybe it's funny to them because it goes against how they would usually think/act.

I agree with Brooker. Look at Takeshi Kitano. Every Japanese person I know thinks he's a weirdo. Why? Because he doesn't behave like the average nihonjin. For the record, I loved his dance number at the end of Zato Ichi.

About the humor in question; I don't care for it much. The best example I can think of is Bobby. Is anyone else here familiar with him? An African who's sole purpose on televison is to make mistakes to the delight of the audience. It's demeaning, in my view.

That being said, I can enjoy making fun of people, if they can take it.

:blush:

Doc
10-04-05, 10:30
However, when you are making fun of the real people in front of you (not a character they are playing), and they genuinely don't know many things asked, there is no wit in the questions, all the people around laugh at them, and that is the sole purpose of the show, I don't find it funny.

I know exactly what you mean. Jaywalking would be a classic example of that. On the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, they would interview real people on the street. Some of these people don't even know the capital of the United States of America! Sure it's might get a chuckle the first time around, but it's gets annoying real quick. Watching real people make an ass out of themselves is not funny at all. As a matter of fact, I usually change the channel because I can't stand to watch the stupidity of some of these people. Hell I don't even watch tv anymore except for the three CSI shows (CSI, CSI: Miami, and CSI:NY). With all this reality tv crap, I'm starting to get pissed with people's obession on this junk. If I was in Japan I'd probably throw my damn tv out the window and stick with the newpaper or the internet.

Doc:ramen::happy:

Maciamo
10-04-05, 10:54
I know exactly what you mean. Jaywalking would be a classic example of that. On the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, they would interview real people on the street. Some of these people don't even know the capital of the United States of America! Sure it's might get a chuckle the first time around, but it's gets annoying real quick. Watching real people make an ass out of themselves is not funny at all. As a matter of fact, I usually change the channel because I can't stand to watch the stupidity of some of these people. Hell I don't even watch tv anymore except for the three CSI shows (CSI, CSI: Miami, and CSI:NY). With all this reality tv crap, I'm starting to get pissed with people's obession on this junk. If I was in Japan I'd probably throw my damn tv out the window and stick with the newpaper or the internet.


Exactly how I see it ! :cool:

mad pierrot
10-04-05, 11:00
Best comedy TV shows?

Conan O' Brian
The Chapell Show

Brooker
10-04-05, 21:30
I didn't watch much TV while in Japan because the shows just seemed silly and wouldn't make sense to me because I wouldn't know anything about the people they were talking about, and I didn't understand Japanese well enough to get it anyways.

Doc
10-04-05, 21:53
Best comedy TV shows?

Conan O' Brian
The Chapell Show

For me:

The Chappell Show
Tough Crowd with Collin Quinn (when it was still on the air)
Blue Collar TV
Monty Python (The best show ever!)
Benny Hill
Home Improvement
The George Lopez Show
Fraiser
Get Smart
The Munsters

Doc:ramen::happy:

Brooker
10-04-05, 22:16
For me, Simpsons and Seinfeld. Very clever and entertaining.

Doc
10-04-05, 22:48
Speaking of The Simpsons I forgot to add a couple of shows that are on my top ten favorites. ATHF (Aqua Teen Hunger Force), Sealab 2021, Robot Chicken, and The Venture Brothers. God I love those shows. They're all pretty much smart humor shows.:-)

Doc:ramen::happy:

Maciamo
11-04-05, 06:21
I didn't watch much TV while in Japan because the shows just seemed silly and wouldn't make sense to me because I wouldn't know anything about the people they were talking about, and I didn't understand Japanese well enough to get it anyways.

Don't worry, you didn't miss much. Even understanding what they say and knowing the "tarento" in question doesn't make it less silly. :p

jeisan
11-04-05, 08:52
umm i can and do laugh at everyones stupidity even my own.

though stupid people in places of power scare me.

Elizabeth
12-04-05, 02:58
Not failing at careers, getting good school positions, etc. is very different from being competent. I understand that the Japanese don't want to lose face in society, and care a lot about having a good job and money, but if they can achieve that without acquire much knowledge and abilities, then they are usually happy.
日本という国は実力社会じゃないの? :p  Actually I don't know Japan on that level to know whether you can say it is developing into a meritorious society or not....I was using competence in the strict sense of "sufficient means for a comfortable existance....adequate for the purpose, passable, getting by" as opposed to fully capable.

As for good or funny Japanese shows, I like the improv comedy ones especially with maybe a prop (conceit) to get things rolling but it has to go beyond that to either making light of each other's mistakes (English always a popular embarrassment) or of a sometimes crazy acting third party (train conductors, uptight obasans etc). :relief:
 

Jovialis
23-01-18, 15:08
I think comedy is usually about things going wrong, or pointing out things that go wrong in a humorous way. The delivery of the joke is also key to being funny. I think Eddie Murphy is my all time favorite, his comedy specials were the best.

Ygorcs
23-01-18, 19:48
I agree with Jovialis. Comedy, according to some experts on the subject, is exactly an indirect way to re-affirm the right path or to highlight things that are going against the usual customs, patterns of behavior or even the expected actions and reactions or, in the extreme, natural laws. That is why we often laugh even at unintentional comedy when, for example, a special effect in a movie looks absurdly unlikely. Our laugh is an unconscious way to re-establish the order of the universe and affirm that we know how to distinguish the "normal" from the uncanny.

Thus, in a comedy you may well be depicting awful instances of racism or xenophobia and STILL be in fact progressive and anti-racist, because you're making people laugh about the absurdity and ignorance of racism/xenophobia, and the laugh is often a potent device of criticism and destruction of the credibility of an idea. The way you elaborate your joke is what will determine the true content behind the humor.

Angela
23-01-18, 21:13
It depends. I agree with Maciamo. If a real person says or does something "stupid" or "ignorant", so long as that ignorance isn't cruel or hurtful in itself, and people laugh at him or her, I don't like it at all and usually intervene. I even get uncomfortable when real people on tv shows do something dumb, even if they don't know it's dumb, if you know what I mean.

On the other hand, when it's fictional characters I can find it very funny. I don't know why, but physical, slapstick comedy usually makes me laugh, and great examples of it can reduce me to hysteria. My father was the same, whereas my mother couldn't figure out what was supposed to be funny about it. I have to say, though, that a lack of a sense of humor was one of her few flaws.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khCYegdgo9A

Now, in real life situations there indeed is nothing funny about this stuff.

Salento
24-01-18, 02:44
Old Latin Proverb: 窶彝isus abundat in ore stultorum窶.
In Italian: 窶廬l riso abbonda sulla bocca degli stolti窶
In English: 窶廰aughter is abundant in the mouth of fools窶.
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji2]

davef
24-01-18, 02:53
Old Latin Proverb: 窶彝isus abundat in ore stultorum窶.
In Italian: 窶廬l riso abbonda sulla bocca degli stolti窶
In English: 窶廰aughter is abundant in the mouth of fools窶.
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji2]
Consider me one of them fools:grin:

Salento
24-01-18, 04:11
Consider me one of them fools:grin:
I don窶冲 believe in that proverb much. Teachers use it on Students. ( when we were laughing and making fun of them, and the Teachers knew it, but couldn窶冲 prove it)
lol lol lol lol [emoji23]

Angela
24-01-18, 05:34
Most philosophers, especially Plato, and certainly all Christian leaders until very recently would agree with Salento's proverb. A dour lot in my opinion. Trust me, you wouldn't want to live in Plato's Republic.

I'm with Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas. Aristotle held that: "Life includes rest as well as activity, and in this is included leisure and amusement.窶 Some people carry amusement to excess, but just as bad are 窶徼hose who can neither make a joke themselves nor put up with those who do". He calls those people the "boorish and unpolished".

Thomas Aquinas followed his lead, believing that "As bodily tiredness is eased by resting the body, so psychological tiredness is eased by resting the soul. As we have explained in discussing the feelings, pleasure is rest for the soul. And therefore the remedy for weariness of soul lies in slackening the tension of mental study and taking some pleasure窶ヲ . Those words and deeds in which nothing is sought beyond the soul窶冱 pleasure are called playful or humorous, and it is necessary to make use of them at times for solace of soul."

I completely agree with that. It's a psychological release at times, at others a way of distancing oneself from painful emotions, which is why I often think that some highly sensitive people use it. Comics are stereotypically believed to be sad people underneath it all. At others it's an ability to let the mind play, as with puns. In all cases I think it rests on the ability to think other than linearly, which is why people on the autism scale have no humor, and I think it relies on enjoying contradiction or incongruity in situations where there is no fear or pain or pity involved.

The only kind of humor of which I disapprove is the kind which arises from a sense of superiority and is used to exclude or hurt other people. However, I do like good put downs, especially when it's a response to an insult:

Lady Nancy Astor: Winston, if I were married to you, I'd put poison in your cup.

Winston Churchill: Madam, If I were married to you, I'd drink it.

Psychiatrists and psychologists have also chimed in:

" Engaging in humor can foster a tolerance for ambiguity and diversity, and promote creative problem-solving. It can serve as a social lubricant, engendering trust and reducing conflict. In communications that tend to evoke negative emotions--announcing bad news, apologizing, complaining, warning, criticizing, commanding, evaluating--humor can provide delight that reduces or even blocks negative emotions."

The kind of humor I most admire is the type in which one makes fun of oneself or one's own situation. Two of my favorites, of which I was reminded:

On walking up the stairs to the gallows, Thomas More is reported to have said: I'll need you to help me up. I shall be able to get down by myself.

On his death bed Oscar Wilde said: That wallpaper is atrocious. One of us has to go.

That kind of wit and grace under pressure, and while undoubtedly very afraid is the essence of courage, imo.

Anyone who hasn't read Oscar Wilde's epigrams really should...talk about incongruity and word play! :) Groucho Marx is another good one: "Next time I see you, remind me not to speak to you." :)

davef
24-01-18, 07:00
I swear i would get a lifetime of infractions if I post a shred of the sick deranged comedic material taken from movies, YouTube vids, video games and other media that gets me into histerics :grin:

No offense Angela, but a lot of what you hate is what i really truly love !! :grin:

ps I heavily dislike material poking fun at real tragedies such as 9/11 or people suffering in general

halfalp
24-01-18, 15:39
I never really liked arguments from authority, because words that are freeze in space and time like ancient greek philosophers or even religious book, are easily idealized. I wonder how acte for exemple Aristotle day by day, he was maybe very excentric, maybe even like a, for exemple, Donald Trump. There is what we wright and what we are. But instead of that, i can personnally laugh at everything that is made to be funny, i love autoderision, i love when people laugh at their own culture or race, for the title subject, i can definitely laugh at ignorance and " stupidity ", we are all uncultivated somehow because their is no such thing as cultivated humans but only humans that like to cultivate themselves.

davef
24-01-18, 16:51
I never really liked arguments from authority, because words that are freeze in space and time like ancient greek philosophers or even religious book, are easily idealized. I wonder how acte for exemple Aristotle day by day, he was maybe very excentric, maybe even like a, for exemple, Donald Trump. There is what we wright and what we are. But instead of that, i can personnally laugh at everything that is made to be funny, i love autoderision, i love when people laugh at their own culture or race, for the title subject, i can definitely laugh at ignorance and " stupidity ", we are all uncultivated somehow because their is no such thing as cultivated humans but only humans that like to cultivate themselves.
You raise a lot of valid points. I don't see how this deserves a negative vote