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Ma Cherie
10-04-05, 22:31
I just came across this site and I've also heard stories of how women in parts of Africa and other parts of the world and I couldn't be more disgusted by such practices even if it is cultural.

Read more about this here:
[URL]http://www.feminist.org/global/issue.asp?issue=fgm[/URL

FGM is also known as female genital cutting or female circumcision.

The World Health Organization classified them in the following:

Type I: Clitoridectomy-It involves the removal of most of or all of the clitoris.

Type II: Excision-This is the most common form. Removal of clitoris and part of or all the labia minora

There is also Type III and Type IV. Which is way to graphic for me to write here. But from what it seems, if a woman does not go through this procedure, she is not suitable for marriage. This is to ensure that the woman is a virgin. Of course this causes all sorts of health problems. Some women are a even unable to have periods. Infection illness, and even death are also risk factors.

I just want to know your views on this. Yeah, I know this a woman's issue, but even a guy's view is welcomed. :-) What do you think should be done about this. I feel the need to try to educate the nations where FGM is being practiced. Educate them about the health risks and why this should end.

Doc
10-04-05, 22:54
Personally I find it horrible that a woman would do that to themselves. I mean they're litterally killing what makes them a woman. I find it disgusting and just plain unethical that a woman would do something like that. It's like the men in that society don't want women to have any pleasure in sex what-so-ever. Not only that, but I think it's wrong that a woman would want to do something like that to herself for cultural accpetance. Destroying what makes you, you is just wrong. They may as well cut off their breasts and uterus while they're at it. Stuff like this just pisses me off.

Doc:ramen::happy:

PS: You need to fix your link. You're missing a bracket making it a little hard to click on the link.

Dutch Baka
10-04-05, 22:55
yes, i heard about this story a couple of years ago, and i think it is crazy that they do this. i even know that in my country some people let there child have it done illigaly, and yes, they way they do it in africa sometimes, is to hard to describe in here...

is this able to put in eduction you think? the have education about aids in s-africa, but is it helping much... OF COURSE ITS BETTER THAN NOTHING!!!! just i wonder would it help now? maby that they young generation take this with them, but for now, i dont think adults will.

i heard some story's about the moslimworld too (not all, but some parts of the places), about a woman should be virgin when she get married, how do they know if she is a virgin:

if after first time sex there is no Blood, it means she isn't a virgin!!!!(and they guy is able to difforce her because of that)

This is ridiciouless, because first time sex, doesnt mean you will get blood...

because of this some woman put some nettle inside there, you know where, they will bleed, and guys think there a virgin...

im some places of the world Yes they need a better education and goverments should be responseble for this things!!!!

( if i say things that are Incorrect please forgive me, and write it better )

phantasmagoria
10-04-05, 23:44
*screws up face just thinking about it*

That's horrible! People are treated so badly in our so called civillised world... It needs to be stopped, somehow... I'm sure there's plenty of people in these people who object but can't voice their opinions... It's just not right, what they would probably call a rite of passage is just something that victimises women

Ma Cherie
10-04-05, 23:45
Okay, everyone sorry about the duplicate thread. :sorry: And I'll just type the link http://www.feminist.org/ And just go the global feminsit page, and you should find some info about FGM. :-)

And two guys gave input on this. Nice! :cool: But anyway, trying to educate these nations about this is difficult. But something has to be done. Yes, Doc cutting the clitoris does take away all sexual pleasure. It's the most stimulating part. :bluush: :blush: I'm not gonna go into that. The women go through the procedure, because I'm sure they really have no choice. Lot's of girls are at risk in going through this. It's really sad, because the women find it very painful to sit. :( And other problems arise. Like she begans to urinate on herself unexecptedly. Thus, because the smell she is an outcast from her community. These women can't even have babies, it they do it's a stillborn child. Two, things that I believe are the problem here.

1. Ignorance. Most of these cultures possibly know nothing about a woman's body. And perhaps don't want to try to learn about a woman's body.

2. Sexism. I don't know who's idea was this, but I don't think a woman would could up with such a practice. Then, I could be wrong. Just like dutch baka pointed out that, even during a woman's first time of intercourse, she will not always bleed. But it seems that these people don't want to try to inlighten themselves. So, what does this sound like to me? That discussing a woman's body and sexuality is taboo.

Dutch Baka
10-04-05, 23:57
if somebody is able to download things, please have a search for the Movie called :
SUBMISION movie about woman that are being threathed like this things,,, the guy who made the movie was shot death a couple of months ago, the movie itself was banned in some country's and the woman who wrote the story of the movie, is on a murder list of some groups. ( great country my country sometimes...)

guy who made the movie is Relative of Vincent van GOgh the Painter, maby somebody hear about it...


This is about this Topic btw

life
11-04-05, 01:30
This may be one of the gruelsome forms of violence against women and this is a concrete manifestation that some women in some parts of the world still haven't got their equal footing in the society. So all the more should people not wane in their fervor to promote a gender fair society. The fgm phenomenon may be culturally bound, we respect cultural differences but when a practice is something that denies a person of her basic right to life and dignity, i think some reassessment and eventually unlearning should be done.

Doc
11-04-05, 02:54
Yes, Doc cutting the clitoris does take away all sexual pleasure. It's the most stimulating part. :bluush: :blush: I'm not gonna go into that.

Oi! Just because I'm a virgin doesn't mean I don't know anything about the female body. :okashii: To be honest I pretty much know where and how to stimulate most if not all of the "erogenous zones" of a woman.;-) Don't ask me why either.;-)

Getting back on topic, I think it's a combination of both points that you brought up Ma Cherie. Sexism and lack of knownledge about the human body can always create very unpleasent and wrong situations and actions.

Doc:ramen::happy:

ArmandV
11-04-05, 06:01
I just came across this site and I've also heard stories of how women in parts of Africa and other parts of the world and I couldn't be more disgusted by such practices even if it is cultural.

Read more about this here:
[URL]http://www.feminist.org/global/issue.asp?issue=fgm[/URL

FGM is also known as female genital cutting or female circumcision.

The World Health Organization classified them in the following:

Type I: Clitoridectomy-It involves the removal of most of or all of the clitoris.

Type II: Excision-This is the most common form. Removal of clitoris and part of or all the labia minora

There is also Type III and Type IV. Which is way to graphic for me to write here. But from what it seems, if a woman does not go through this procedure, she is not suitable for marriage. This is to ensure that the woman is a virgin. Of course this causes all sorts of health problems. Some women are a even unable to have periods. Infection illness, and even death are also risk factors.

I just want to know your views on this. Yeah, I know this a woman's issue, but even a guy's view is welcomed. :-) What do you think should be done about this. I feel the need to try to educate the nations where FGM is being practiced. Educate them about the health risks and why this should end.

Is this mutilation practiced in Japan or other Asian countries?

bossel
11-04-05, 07:07
Is this mutilation practiced in Japan or other Asian countries?
Only by some minorities in the Middle East. Else the practice is only common in some African countries & among refugees from there worldwide.

Ma Cherie
22-04-05, 02:59
I'm continuing my research on this and I read some stories about girls who've been cut. And there have been stories in which girls have bled to death. :( :( I'm reading a book called Warrior Marks: Female Genital Mutilation and the Sexual Blinding of Women. by Alice Walker and Pratibha Parmar. I read some interviews in this book from the side of the circumciser. Well, after reading this woman's attitude towards this practice, she didn't seem all that sympathetic. There's even an account in which she was responsible for the death of a young girl. But at any rate it was very disturbing when I read another interview of a circumciser, she even showed the instruments and how she would cut the girls. *shutters*

here's another link I came across: :cool:
www.4woman.gov/faq/fgc.htm

Dutch Baka
23-04-05, 00:34
why do you want to read a book about that darling..... ITAI ITAI...

no... its good people get to know more about it.. but the main thing is that people from the country should get to know it to...

Vinc3ntV
04-05-05, 19:28
Yes! I heard about that on Oprah a looong time ago. It's horrible! And actually, they don't do it to themselfs, they are forced to and men do it to them. The parents have say in it, and you're 'unclean' if you don't. (Not that you'd have any say in it anyway. When you reach a certain age, you HAVE to have it done.) And yes, many girls die. :( It was really sad... Thanks for the links, I'll go they're and look some stuff up. -Nod-

bossel
04-05-05, 19:41
Yes! I heard about that on Oprah a looong time ago. It's horrible! And actually, they don't do it to themselfs, they are forced to and men do it to them.
Only shows that you shouldn't trust some freaky talkshows.
FGM is usually (& traditionally) done by women (at least I haven't heard of men doing it, though this might happen in some places).

Ma Cherie
06-05-05, 07:08
This is what I found very surprising. FGM being practiced in North America and Europe. The last places on earth where such a thing could happen. But there are reasons for this. For one, their immigrants from nations where FGM is being done. Two, these go undergo the procedures anyway to keep their cultural identity. There has been a report that in France several little girls from West Africa had be circumcised in Paris, and died as a result of it. However, there seems to be more laws in Europe and in North America that are criminalizing this practice. (Don't get me wrong, there are efforts being made to stop this in less developed nations that still do this). In England special legislation laws has been passed as well as publicly funded education programs. Steps have been taken in Europe and have classified as child abuse. In Canada, FGM is prohibited under child abuse laws. In 1993, special legislation was introduced to Congress in the US.

Here are laws prohibiting this in other nations.
http://annualreview.law.harvard.edu/population/fgm/fgm.htm

Shizu Seraph
20-05-05, 05:37
yes, i heard about this story a couple of years ago, and i think it is crazy that they do this. i even know that in my country some people let there child have it done illigaly, and yes, they way they do it in africa sometimes, is to hard to describe in here...

is this able to put in eduction you think? the have education about aids in s-africa, but is it helping much... OF COURSE ITS BETTER THAN NOTHING!!!! just i wonder would it help now? maby that they young generation take this with them, but for now, i dont think adults will.

i heard some story's about the moslimworld too (not all, but some parts of the places), about a woman should be virgin when she get married, how do they know if she is a virgin:

if after first time sex there is no Blood, it means she isn't a virgin!!!!(and they guy is able to difforce her because of that)

This is ridiciouless, because first time sex, doesnt mean you will get blood...

because of this some woman put some nettle inside there, you know where, they will bleed, and guys think there a virgin...

im some places of the world Yes they need a better education and goverments should be responseble for this things!!!!

( if i say things that are Incorrect please forgive me, and write it better )

Dude, there's what you call a hymen. That stuff's been the gauge of virginity in most cultures worldwide.

Here's what I got from coolnurse.com:

Many people are under the impression that the hymen is located within the vagina. It is not. Itfs part of the vulva, the external genital organs. Itfs located outside the vagina. The hymen is a layer of tissue, just like the tissue around the opening of your vagina that partially conceals the vaginal orifice. You may or may not have one, most females do. The hymen is named after the Greek God Hymenaeus -- the God of marriage and weddings, FYI.

During the early stages of fetal development there is no opening into the vagina at all. The thin layer of tissue that conceals the vagina at this time usually divides incompletely prior to birth, forming the hymen. The size and shape of this opening (or openings) varies greatly from person to person.

Sometimes this formation of an opening does not occur, resulting in an imperforated hymen (it lacks the more common opening). Some females have no hymen at birth at all, since the tissue divided completely while they were still in the womb.

Many girls and teens tear or otherwise dilate their hymen while participating in sports like bicycling, horseback riding, gymnastics or inserting tampons, or while masturbating. A girl may not even know this has occurred, since there may be little or no blood or pain involved when this happens. The tissues of the vulva are generally very thin and delicate prior to puberty. The presence or absence of a hymen in no way indicates whether or not a female is a virgin. * You are a virgin until you have sexual intercourse.*

Some hymens are elastic enough to permit a penis to enter without tearing, or they tear only partially, and there is NO bleeding at all. When adequately lubricated the vagina is fairly 'flexible' and will stretch without discomfort for most women. Sometimes, a woman has sex for years with no real 'tearing' at all, only stretching of the hymen and then at another time the same woman might tear from 'rough sex' or sex with a different partner with a larger penis. Remnants of the hymen are usually still present until a woman delivers a baby vaginally.

I hope that clarifies thing up, dutch baka. Anyway, going back to female circumcision.

For me, it's a direct violation of human rights. Most women who underwent this were actually unwilling to, and were brainwashed by some age-oldbelief that the clitoris is unclean. I know my girlfriend woudn't want her vaginal lips to be eviscerated by some chauvinistic God-knows-who.

Unlike male circumcision, there's no scientific evidence that supports the benefits of female circumcision! Society is changing, and women are getting aware and empowered. For goodness' sake, this should stop.

Ma Cherie
24-05-05, 05:36
Thank you for that bit of information, Shizu. Much appreciated. Anyway, I came across some photos of circumcism tools and blades.

Take a look: