Desecration of the Quran: Your Views

With the recent news story (or lack of) in Newsweek last week which suggested that American Forces desecrated the Quran, I am curious as to some of your opinions on this.

How do you view the desecration of such a book? Do you see it as an evil act that should be punished, or do you view it as no big deal? Please give a reason for your decision. Remember this is an opinion thread, no one should be judged on their OPINION. With that being said, I would like to welcome some open and honest debate on this subject.

wow..No takers on this thread?

Okay, I'll bite. For me the Quran is just a book, as is the Bible. I read a lot and have a tendency to look after the books I have. I wouldn't go out of my way to purposely damaged or ruin any book, but if one gets damaged over time I would eventually throw it out and buy a new one, regardless of what it contained. The problem with this is that religious texts have a tendency to inflame the extreme believer in any religion. They see it as a form of direct access to the word of God and must be treated with respect. Nothing you could do, say, prove that it is a collection of stories, myths and rules will not change their opinion.
From what I can gather from various news sources that the desecration of the Quran was done on purpose and with the intent to offend people. I wonder what these so called civilised people would have done if the situtation was reversed? We know that Christian Fundamentalists can be just as bad as Islamic fundamentalists when it come to defending their religion against percieved attacks to their way of life and on their beliefs and books.

The story was a fake. Newsweek did not check its sources- they printed a retraction, then an applogy. It never happened. (Too bad for the 16 people that died in the rioting in Pakistan, for the people injured and the people that lost property.)

sabro said:

The story was a fake. Newsweek did not check its sources- they printed a retraction, then an applogy. It never happened.

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Well, at least something similar most probably happened. Only the Newsweek source & article may have been flawed (& even that is not sure, there seems to have been quite some pressure by the Bush government). That doesn't mean that nothing happened, though.

Reports of Quran desecration in Guantanamo are actually not new. Only this time it was a rather respected source as Newsweek reporting, hence the excitement. The other reports have been largely ignored in the US because they came from former inmates. US (Bushite) logic: former inmate = suspected of terrorism = terrorist = unreliable

Other reports came from the Red Cross, I think. But probably for the US administration there goes the same for the Red Cross as for the UN: not biased in our favour, hence irrelevant.

I'm not certain that anything of that nature happened, but it seems irresponsible to speculate, if because of speculation people will riot and possibly be hurt or killed. I do not think the Islamic world needs one more reason to hate us.

To simply say "it never happened", when quite obviously something happened, won't do the US any good either. The Red Cross is usually rather reliable & they are not the only source for such reports.

My thoughts:

Quran = book loved by many.
Book loved by many + insulting actions to the book = angry people.


As far as everyone ganging up on Newsweek, I think it's unfair. Newsweek isn't repsonsible for the riots. The people who rioted are. The story was just an excuse for them.

I think the whole idea is just silly. Hello people...Its a book! Letters printed on paper (or maybe symbols)...but the point is the copy the may (or may not) have been desecrated was not the version written, carved, blessed (whatever) by almighty Allah himself (IF he/she ever even existed!). The same goes for the Bible. Unless it is proven to be the very first one ever in existence, then it is a cheap copy. I mean that is my take on it. I felt the same whenever I witnessed people going crazy over book burning events because a group of people didn't approve of words that were used. Just buy more right? It is not like someone burned down their chapel or temple. I just can't understand why anyone would get so worked up over things like this! Of course that is just my opinion.

The story won't die. The allegation that Newsweek printed is that an inmate at Guantanamo told an aid worker that he saw a US soldier flush the holy book, and that a US investigation would be confirming this. So the story was actually about an allegation, not an act. The US military investigation could not identify the Red Cross worker, and so the story died...or did it? The prisoner is still making the allegation which has not been independently investigated (by someone not beholden to the Sec'y of Defense).

I think there may be a problem with secret military prisons holding "terrorists" indefinitely without any type of protections.

CC1 said:

Just buy more right? It is not like someone burned down their chapel or temple.

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Well, if they burnt your chapel or temple, just build a new one, right?

Principally, I agree with you. Others destroying stuff should be no reason to kill. The problem is that there are people who see stuff as sacred. & unless you are willing to cause some excitement, you should refrain from destroying (or otherwise desecrating) this stuff.


BTW, the NYT has an interesting take on the reasons for these violent demonstrations:
With a Little Help From Our Friends
"[...]it's a mistake to focus on the Newsweek article as the cause of the recent demonstrations in Afghanistan. Instead, the reason was President Hamid Karzai's May 8 announcement that Afghanistan would enter a long-term strategic partnership with the United States.

Such an alliance discomfits Afghanistan's neighbors. Pakistan, for one, is used to treating Afghanistan as an all but subject territory. The events of Sept. 11 and the sudden arrival of the United States changed all that, to the muted chagrin of Islamabad. Although Pakistani officials have mastered their role as allies in the "war on terrorism" and play it convincingly, they would like nothing better than to see the United States pull out of Afghanistan. What better, then, than to project Afghanistan as a volatile place, hostile to Americans?[...]"

I am curious as to what happened, the reports say the Koran was "mishandled" but what does that mean? Was it set down incorrectly? Was something spilled on it? The question arise as to what treatment this book recieves and do the guards at Gitmo have the training to know what would be considered "mishandling".

This is from the site Afgha.com

For most Muslims, their holy book represents more than a text of the words of God. The Koran not only represents the living message of God to humankind, but also it is believed to have powers that would render it as a living thing.

Surah 59, Verse 21 of the Koran states that "Had We sent down this Koran on a mountain, verily, you would have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder."

Muslims are instructed to handle the Koran only when clean. Surah 56, Verse 79 requires that "none shall touch [the Koran] but those who are clean."

Among Afghans and Pakistanis, the Koran itself is regarded as a holy relic and some regard it as having supernatural powers. The book is usually wrapped in expensive cloths and placed at the highest place in the room. Those who handle the Koran traditionally kiss it several times and rub it to their eyes, before reading it. The same ritual is repeated after the reading is done. If a copy of the Koran accidentally falls on the floor, Afghans usually give special offerings in God's name for forgiveness.

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Now if you look at the response to the US stating that the book was "mishandled" there are some frightening things. The burning of the British and Israeli flag especially, along with beating and burning of effigies of Rabbi's and Bush. I know that there are tensions between the Islamic and Jewish community but where did the Jewish connection appear in this problem?

There is a very good article about this eventhere
Orson Scott Card is an author who has written a number of well known books such as the Ender's Game series and he always seems to construct very interesting arguments.

People have to let there anger out on things they dont like, its better this then taking it out on people.

I would treat this as a matter of more then just messing with a book though, there was more to it then that. It was not an attack at the book itself but more of an attack at the people.

Tim I see what your saying, but it is just paper with printing...at least the way I see it. Which hurts more...the flushing of a book in a toilet, or your balls hooked to a battery via jumper cables? I'm not making light of the situation, but I think that people take some things way too seriously!

Yes many times they do but it all depends on why they did what they did.

If it was an attack directed at the people but not on them, maybe because they knew they would not get away with that then i feel that this is wrong. It shows that they do wish bad things upon this group of people.

However i do agree with your point about people taking things way to seriously. Damaging a book and having your balls hooked to a battery is a very differnt thing. Better then book then the people.

CC1 said:

or your balls hooked to a battery via jumper cables?

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There are people that do this for fun. :souka:

CC1 said:

I think the whole idea is just silly. Hello people...Its a book!

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I think disrespecting the symbol of someone's beliefs IS a big deal. Symbols hold a lot of meaning and emotion for people. People would get pretty worked up if someone peed on the bible or when they burn your flag. Doing such a thing is a way of telling someone that you disrespect everything they believe in and stand for. People are willing to fight and die over things like that. And, if these events happened (and I really don't know either way), think of the intention behind it... They did it because they knew it would really anger the inmates. They're using the things that affect their psyche most, against them. That's why they piled naked men together, because such a thing is horrifying to them with their beliefs. It's important to respect other people's beliefs even if you don't understand them. Damaging a holy book might not be as bad as torturing someone, but it's extremely bad form and makes America seem incredibly insensitive, offensive, and disrespectful of other cultures.

(Once again, not saying whether or not I think such things happened, because I don't know, but, for the people who thought that it did, I'm not surprised that they were very angry.)

Sabro wrote...

I think there may be a problem with secret military prisons holding "terrorists" indefinitely without any type of protections.

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I agree. America wouldn't stand for another country doing such a thing.

Brooker said:

I think disrespecting the symbol of someone's beliefs IS a big deal. Symbols hold a lot of meaning and emotion for people. People would get pretty worked up if someone peed on the bible or when they burn your flag. Doing such a thing is a way of telling someone that you disrespect everything they believe in and stand for.

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Interesting point. I agree with CC1. It is just a book! On the other hand, what about the FACT that Saudi Arabia burns thousands of bibles on a yearly basis? All bilbles and other religious paraphinalia, like crosses and medals, are confiscated from westerners entering the country and burned. If you are found to have more than three bibles on your person you will be arrested and sent to prison. If a Saudi is found with a bible they also are sent to prison.

Why does no one riot over, or say anything, about that?
Check out this site and make sure you read the last paragraph.

Also, read this by a Saudi national himself.

Why do US newspapers and magazines, such as Newsweek say anything about this?


Although I do not adhere to ANY religion, everyone seems so damn upset over the desecrating of the Quran, but I see no one standing up for the desicration of the Bible. Seems a little hypocritical to me.

Pachipro said:

Why do US newspapers and magazines, such as Newsweek say anything about this?

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They don't? Maybe the Bush government sees the Saudis as too valuable an ally (& therefore perhaps put pressure on news media)?
But I think, there are so many Christian fundamentalist news sources in the US that these news should be available to the vast majority of US citizens. It's interesting, though, if major news media really do not report.

Another point of course is the fact that Saudi Arabia is not really known as a human rights heaven. That also could be the reason that it's not really newsworthy, when eg. some Christians get jailed for 6 months because they held a "private" church service in an apartment.
The US on the other hand wants to be seen as a fighter for freedom & human rights. Now, if there some serious human rights infringements happen...