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Mycernius
02-06-05, 21:43
With the current thread on the EU constitution and the arguments for the Yes and No, I have been wondering what are the other European forums opinions on the EU in general. There are 7 choices and I think it should be enough.

1. Very Pro-EU - I agree that the EU should expand. More power to Brussels and a larger more united Europe is the best way ahead. The quicker the better
2. Mildly Pro-EU - I agree that the EU should expand, but at a slower rate. The power in Brussels should only be there for more serious European issues.
3. Slightly Pro-EU - I agree that the EU should expand, but only when countries can show they have an advanced enough economy and stable enough. It is something that will happen, but it should evolve, not forced. Brussels should have virtually no say in how countries in the EU run themselves and should consider only things that effect all EU members.
4. Neither Pro or Anti - Speaks for itself really
5. Slightly Anti-EU - The EU is good enough at the size it is. The EU has done some good things, but Brussels interfers sometimes where it is not needed.
6. Mildly Anti-EU - The EU should have stayed for what it was when it was the Common Market or EEC. Purely there for easy trade within Europe. There is to much power in Brussels and some of it should be given back to the member countries.
7. Very Anti-EU - It has caused nothing but problems. Brussel should not have the power it does. It is threatening each countries sovereignty and countries would be much better out of the EU than in it.

There is some flexibilty in each choice, and I have tried to make then as wide as possible for each one. just choose the one that best suits your view.

Duo
02-06-05, 21:58
Wellllllll, i vote the first option, i guess is no secret, you have probaply been all tired and sick of my pro-EU rants and argumetns but what can I say,,, i beleive in strong unified Europe, the quiker the better :)

Miss_apollo7
02-06-05, 22:08
I am the second person in this poll to vote: Very PRO-EU.... :cool:

I am very much in favor of a united Europe under the EU-flag..... :cool: (holding the flag with Duo)... :-)

Mycernius
02-06-05, 22:14
Duo, your response didn't surprise me in the slighest. I should have put Very, very, definetely Pro EU just for you. :-)

Duo
02-06-05, 22:20
I am the second person in this poll to vote: Very PRO-EU.... :cool:

I am very much in favor of a united Europe under the EU-flag..... :cool: (holding the flag with Duo)... :-)


Amen to thaaat :blush:

bossel
02-06-05, 23:15
Mildly pro.

Don't really care that much, but I have an aversion to nationalism. & I like freedom to travel, live & work where I want (although I don't use that freedom very much).

thomas
03-06-05, 14:47
Slightly pro, although harbouring a lot of understanding for the euroscepticism we recently witnessed in F and the NL. I strongly dislike the EU technocracy and fat political oligarchy that unflinchingly marches forward under the flag of neoliberalism and capitalism as well as the unsettling drift towards overregulation, but hey, perhaps I got it all wrong here in Japan (see my sig).
:p

Maciamo
03-06-05, 17:09
I am very pro-EU in theory, although I think it shouldn't expand too fast (as it has been doing recently) and try to be less bureacratic than now.

Chris Weimer
05-06-05, 00:00
Very mixed feelings on this issue. The European Union will expand, whether we want it to or not, but it's going to have some problems. One problem is European disputes, which fortunately have been very mild to non-existant here recently, except the Greece-Turkey-Cyprus dilemma. Another problem is Turkey and the European culture versus the Middle Eastern cultures. Per the violence that has been displayed recently, I can foresee nothing but bad coming out of that (v. Theo van Gogh et al.). Yet another problem will be how to handle wars, such as if Russian decides to attack Poland, for valid reasons of course, will EU back the valid Russia or the confederate Poland? Yet another problem (last one here) is the Christian fanatical capitalists who have been popping up in unexpected places lately (Germany comes to mind), which is against the foundation of the EU as a liberal and secular socialist confederacy (er, union...).

I did not vote.

Pararousia
05-06-05, 01:04
Although it sounds like a great idea in theory, ultimately it is a step toward a one-world government and that can't be good, IMHO.

bossel
05-06-05, 03:31
(v. Theo van Gogh et al.).
You had political assassinations in Western cultures before.


such as if Russian decides to attack Poland, for valid reasons of course
Valid reasons to go to war? What could Poland do?



the Christian fanatical capitalists who have been popping up in unexpected places lately (Germany comes to mind)
Christian fanatical capitalists?


which is against the foundation of the EU as a liberal and secular socialist confederacy (er, union...).
Liberal & socialist? Can't see them working together. Which socialist EU do you foresee? A soviet model?

Duo
05-06-05, 04:19
Although it sounds like a great idea in theory, ultimately it is a step toward a one-world government and that can't be good, IMHO.


That's a false premesis, the most that the EU can become in my view is something like the US, and that's highly unlikely, at least for the current time and the recent future.

Chris Weimer
06-06-05, 00:28
You had political assassinations in Western cultures before.
And religious ones too (which was what T. van Gogh's murder was about - not political) yet there exists a mentality in Turkey that such religious fervor is a virtue, while most Western people see it as a vice.


Valid reasons to go to war? What could Poland do?
New word for you today: hypothetical (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hypothetical)


Christian fanatical capitalists?
I was under the impression that Angela Murkel was very Christian and very capitalistic (almost American ;)).


Liberal & socialist? Can't see them working together. Which socialist EU do you foresee? A soviet model?
Hrm, can you explain this a tad better? What do you mean?

bossel
06-06-05, 02:57
there exists a mentality in Turkey that such religious fervor is a virtue, while most Western people see it as a vice.
In Turkey? Turkey would be one of the last examples I'd choose for that.


New word for you today: hypothetical (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hypothetical)
Perhaps a new expression for you: modals of possibility (could is one).



I was under the impression that Angela Murkel was very Christian and very capitalistic (almost American ;)).
Which shows that you don't know too much about German politics. The CDU (Merkel's party) is only slightly more capitalistic than the SPD, surely not fanatical. Merkel & her party also aren't fanatically Christian, they even have a lot of Turkish members & voters (although they lost quite a number due to their negative stance on Turkey's EU membership).



Hrm, can you explain this a tad better? What do you mean?
Liberals are quite the opposite of socialists (unless you adhere to the strange US definition of liberal).
The EU is not much more socialist than the US (a bit, but not much), hence I thought, you had some future socialist EU in mind.

Mycernius
06-06-05, 18:15
You know I posted the question, but haven't posted my opinion. Oh well, here goes. I am slighlty Pro-EU. I feel that with the modern world being what it is that countries will come together. Europe seem a good place for this to start as most European countries are stable both politically and economically. The only problem I find is that the EU parliment wish to rush it forward to quickly and except countries that are clearly not ready to join. I think it should slow down and let the current members settle down and then accept some more when the time is right. You never know, in the future it might spread beyond Europe. After all Turkey and Russian also share territory in Asia. If they join the EU would other Asian countries try to join?

Chris Weimer
07-06-05, 01:42
In Turkey? Turkey would be one of the last examples I'd choose for that.
Well, perhaps if you look at Istanbul, but anywhere east of that and the whole population is full of them.


Which shows that you don't know too much about German politics. The CDU (Merkel's party) is only slightly more capitalistic than the SPD, surely not fanatical. Merkel & her party also aren't fanatically Christian, they even have a lot of Turkish members & voters (although they lost quite a number due to their negative stance on Turkey's EU membership).
I didn't say her party was fanatical, just heard that she was a very hard-hearted Christian.


Liberals are quite the opposite of socialists (unless you adhere to the strange US definition of liberal).
Sure, living in America a liberal does equate with socialism. You see, a conservative is one that wants to conserve capitalism and Christianity, while liberals want to change things. In America, Christian capitalism is the norm so conservatives want that conserved.

Of course, if you can't think outside your box, you'll never understand that.


The EU is not much more socialist than the US (a bit, but not much), hence I thought, you had some future socialist EU in mind.
The "EU" isn't a country yet either, but France, Britain, Norway, Germany etc... are all more socialist than the US is. We don't even have public medical care.

bossel
07-06-05, 02:11
Well, perhaps if you look at Istanbul, but anywhere east of that and the whole population is full of them.
Still, Turkey is one of the most secular countries in the Muslim world. There are several countries which have much more of a problem with religious fervor.


I didn't say her party was fanatical, just heard that she was a very hard-hearted Christian.
You mentioned "Christian fanatical capitalists." When I asked about it, you gave Merkel as an example. She (& her party) is a far cry from being fundamentalist (or fanatically) Christian.


Sure, living in America a liberal does equate with socialism. You see, a conservative is one that wants to conserve capitalism and Christianity, while liberals want to change things.
What a nice & simple point of view.


Of course, if you can't think outside your box, you'll never understand that.
Which box?



The "EU" isn't a country yet either, but France, Britain, Norway, Germany etc... are all more socialist than the US is. We don't even have public medical care.
Socialism stands or falls with compulsory health insurance? Beyond that there is not much that makes European countries so much more socialist than the US (BTW, the USA has a similar system at least for the elderly: Medicare, 40m US citizens enrolled). The US protects the national industries just as the EU does (though the ways how they do it may differ a bit).

GP850mAh
07-04-11, 20:25
[QUOTE=Mycernius;212047]
4. Neither Pro or Anti - Speaks for itself reallyQUOTE]

I'll have to say this one, I'm neither pro nor against the EU and I don't know what I would vote if there were a referendum today.

sparkey
07-04-11, 20:32
I'll have to say this one, I'm neither pro nor against the EU and I don't know what I would vote if there were a referendum today.

It seems to me, from afar, that Norway has been fine without being in the EU. Certainly, the EU would benefit to have another stable country like Norway in its midst. But would Norway have a net benefit? It seems that they get most of their benefit from just being in the EEA.

Mzungu mchagga
07-04-11, 20:42
Expansion of the EU and giving more power to Brussels, as mentioned at the beginning, are two completely different issues!

I could reject further admission of other countries and still be in favor of more unity within, or vice versa. So this poll doesn't make much sense!

edao
07-04-11, 21:56
We are in a position now where Germany are basically proposing that other euro zone countries get a say in each others fiscal policy.

Or in other words Germany gets to hold the euro zone purse strings.

People are talking about the bail-outs as a disaster but they are loans and people make money from loans.

Germany has only strengthened it grip over western europe with the crisis, i think its federalisation via the back door.

GP850mAh
07-04-11, 22:05
It seems to me, from afar, that Norway has been fine without being in the EU. Certainly, the EU would benefit to have another stable country like Norway in its midst. But would Norway have a net benefit? It seems that they get most of their benefit from just being in the EEA.

We are doing pretty fine now which can to a huge degree be credited to our oil export which has made us a very rich country and thus giving us a lot of money to invest in infrastructure, education, research to create economic growth and ensure everyone a high standard of living.

The EU is our biggest trade partner where about 80% of our exports goes and a EU-membership is a give and take thing, we would have to give alot, but in the long run I think we would benefit from it economicly even though we would have to cash up big time right now.

We would have to give up alot of sovereignty as a EU-member though like giving up our currency and adopt the ÔéČuro. Adopting the euro would most likely benefit our export industry that has to pay fees to exchange to th euro now. It would also mean lower inflation and lower prices on alot of goods like food which means we could cut wages and thus make our export industry more competative.But it would also mean the end of the norwegian krone and a loss of our most important tool to controll our inflation, interest rate and employment politics.

So to summon up: would Norway have a net benefit? Economicly I think so. Would it benefit our sovereignty? Not at all and this is why I'm undecided whether Norway should join the EU or not.

Rastko Pocesta
28-04-11, 15:52
I agree with everything in "Very pro-EU", but I am either slightly or mildly because I think EU's policies towards workers are shameful. I am proponent of democratic socialism and I want to see a truly free Europe without any oppressive ideologies - authoritarian "communism", fascism, capitalism. Capitalism dehumanizes and treats a human being only as a source of profit, without any honour and dignity.

Nordsee
04-05-13, 12:07
6. Mildly Anti-EU

zanipolo
04-05-13, 23:31
I agree with everything in "Very pro-EU", but I am either slightly or mildly because I think EU's policies towards workers are shameful. I am proponent of democratic socialism and I want to see a truly free Europe without any oppressive ideologies - authoritarian "communism", fascism, capitalism. Capitalism dehumanizes and treats a human being only as a source of profit, without any honour and dignity.

i am 100% anti-Eu IF you retain nations in the EU.

If you want to have nations in the EU , then do not have euro money ...all MUST have there own currency.
Any other system which has nations does not work, as was stated in the 1990s by economists.

albanopolis
05-05-13, 01:37
For EU wholehearted. Every small country is for the EU. It gives them security.

Boss
05-05-13, 01:43
i am 100% anti-Eu IF you retain nations in the EU.

If you want to have nations in the EU , then do not have euro money ...all MUST have there own currency.
Any other system which has nations does not work, as was stated in the 1990s by economists.

That's not the EU. You're talking about the eurozone - a separate institution from the EU.

zanipolo
05-05-13, 02:41
That's not the EU. You're talking about the eurozone - a separate institution from the EU.

? what?....that my opinion on how it should work regardless of what it is

Garrick
15-12-13, 19:45
I'm for EU, and suppose my country will become the member of EU. But EU must change and central authorities should have more power. In fact, if the EU wants to be strong it must sooner or later become a federation with all the powers of the federation (finance, population, army etc.).

Wilhelm
22-12-13, 22:38
Im very anti-EU and I would like to get ouf it badly, and also get back to our national money (the Peseta). To hell with the EU.

bicicleur
22-12-13, 23:46
slightly pro, there is some necessity, but they should keep it simple, and there should be less politics and politicians in general (not only in the EU)

brigantine72
10-01-14, 17:52
I voted Mildly Pro-EU but I think I'm somewhere between there and Very Pro-EU. I would like to see more smart integration that benefits all countries. While I believe EU expansion is good I think evaluating the potential ramifications needs to be more thought out. Also would like to see an end to NATO and a true independent EU military.

Dragoon
29-12-14, 22:52
I am anti EU for several reasons.
1)I dont want single currency
2)I believe Europe is made of several nations each with unique people, culture, etc.
3)I dont like the idea of one supranational union.
4)Open borders and immigration are major problems.
5)Some countries benefit, others lose from it.
6)The current EU politics is not democratic.

LeBrok
30-12-14, 09:21
I am anti EU for several reasons.
1)I dont want single currency
2)I believe Europe is made of several nations each with unique people, culture, etc.
3)I dont like the idea of one supranational union.
4)Open borders and immigration are major problems.
5)Some countries benefit, others lose from it.

Can we say the same about Canada and USA?

Mars
30-12-14, 13:53
I think the EU should represent a block of countries with geographic adjacency, an at least partially shared common history and origins, and common interests in the global scenario. But no "european commission" (what is its REAL role?), no bureaucratic impositions, and if it doesn't work properly, as it is now, no common currency. There could be a common currency for the international commercial transactions, and national currencies (somehow "linked" together as it was before the euro). National curriencies worked better because they were real expressions of their own territories.
Let the council of the european governments (democratically elected), the only functional legislative body of the Union. The commission could exist only in order to help the governments council routine.

Maleth
30-12-14, 14:32
Personally I really find the common currency great easy to compare and no hustle to exchange. I appreciated more the common euro currency when visiting Copenhagen from Malmo (that means Sweden to Denmark Just 30 minutes over the Oresund bridge ) both in the EU but not in the EuroZone, so both have their own different currency and have to change money in each place. besides the fact that you have to keep converting every time just to know how much something costs. Nostalgic for local currencies yes, Practical? not too sure.

Angela
30-12-14, 17:51
Personally I really find the common currency great easy to compare and no hustle to exchange. I appreciated more the common euro currency when visiting Copenhagen from Malmo (that means Sweden to Denmark Just 30 minutes over the Oresund bridge ) both in the EU but not in the EuroZone, so both have their own different currency and have to change money in each place. besides the fact that you have to keep converting every time just to know how much something costs. Nostalgic for local currencies yes, Practical? not too sure.

I don't think it's a question of nostalgia, Maleth, or at least it shouldn't be the prime consideration, obviously. In my opinion, unless the southern European countries get rid of the Euro they'll continue to struggle economically. I also don't see how Italy, in particular, is benefiting from it or the EU in general, which is my primary focus, or at least I don't think the benefits outweigh the negatives as far as the current system is concerned. Just how has the EU helped Italy with the problems resulting from all the refugees of one sort or another that wash up on her shores? Plus, she is already strangled by regulations. How would more regulations, and especially those propagated by a bunch of bureaucrats with no allegiance to her solve any of her problems? As presently constituted, the decisions will be made by other countries to their benefit, not Italy's, in my opinion.

Ed. I almost wish I hadn't posted. :smile: I spent more than enough time this summer in rancorous arguments about the EU and politics and economics in general. It's not for nothing that some people say never discuss politics or religion. I almost came to blows with my nearest and dearest this summer (well, that's an exaggeration, but you know what I mean, I'm sure. :grin:), and it ended with some family members telling me to keep my mouth shut until I return and pay my taxes there, instead of just alighting for visits a couple of months a year. :sad-2:

Maleth
30-12-14, 18:34
I don't think it's a question of nostalgia, Maleth, or at least it shouldn't be the prime consideration, obviously. In my opinion, unless the southern European countries get rid of the Euro they'll continue to struggle economically. I also don't see how Italy, in particular, is benefiting from it or the EU in general, which is my primary focus, or at least I don't think the benefits outweigh the negatives as far as the current system is concerned. Just how has the EU helped Italy with the problems resulting from all the refugees of one sort or another that wash up on her shores? Plus, she is already strangled by regulations. How would more regulations, and especially those propagated by a bunch of bureaucrats with no allegiance to her solve any of her problems? As presently constituted, the decisions will be made by other countries to their benefit, not Italy's, in my opinion.

I admit I am not much of an economist and I am not too sure why the Euro can be beneficial for the economy except for the basic arguments of more transparency in how much something costs in one country and knowing who is making the best deal without the risk of getting fractured currency fluctuations. Somehow it has facilitated travel and moving around. Also its the exchange costs involved, but regardless of that I really do not know much more. My comment is more in regards to the days of my childhood when we had to regularly exchange currency to go anywhere and now it feels like a little luxury going (business or leisure) to Eurozone countries. I remember feeling annoyed changing money going to Sweden, then changing Money again to go to Denmark, then changing money again to enter back in Sweden and changing money again to come back to Malta. I kept saying, is it really necessary? :useless: :smile: On the other hand countries out of the Eurozone seem to be doing good if not better, but then deep down I feel they would do even better (and not the other way round) if they had the Euro. I think or believe there are other factors rather then the Euro in regards to economy performance. Just my opinion.

In regards to refugees I believe it has been the biggest negative effect even on Malta with a population of just over 400,000 to cater for such an influx of refugees and being told by the Beurocrats in Brussels (as you put it) that once they enter here its our problem and nobody else!. It was only the US who was willing to take a few hundreds. None of them intended to come to Malta and just were directed here by bad weather. The EU handed out some extra money as a one time handout and mostly to upgrade the detention centres with better facilities!. One has to see the repercussions of such an influx on such a small population.



Ed. I almost wish I hadn't posted. :smile: I spent more than enough time this summer in rancorous arguments about the EU and politics and economics in general. It's not for nothing that some people say never discuss politics or religion. I almost came to blows with my nearest and dearest this summer (well, that's an exaggeration, but you know what I mean, I'm sure. :grin:), and it ended with some family members telling me to keep my mouth shut until I return and pay my taxes there

:shocked:....Very familiar with the situation :grin:


instead of just alighting for visits a couple of months a year. :sad-2:

couple of months a year is really frequent Angela. Do not forget your little side trip south next time :smile:

Yetos
05-01-15, 19:16
Europe is not the Europe of 50's, just after the war, neither the Europe of 70's 80's with the big dreaming politicians, who build EU,

2015 is a catalytic year, starting from 22/01/2015 when Dragi will anounce the ECB reports

Yetos
15-01-15, 00:01
Europe is not the Europe of 50's, just after the war, neither the Europe of 70's 80's with the big dreaming politicians, who build EU,

2015 is a catalytic year, starting from 22/01/2015 when Dragi will anounce the ECB reports


besides
it is another thing
1)the EEC
2) the EU
3) the Fiscal union (ECB Eurozone,)

it is other thing
Dublin treaty
Lisbon treaty
Maas..trich (difficult orthography) treaty
etc etc


some countries today are still in the status of EEC, avoiding the treaties of EU

kepke
27-02-15, 18:08
I'm absolutely pro-EU.
For me europeans are may brothers with a common millenary history.
I dream a federal Europe with no countries but only regions with a wide autonomy. We can stay united in our differences.

Sile
27-02-15, 19:45
I am PRO-EU ONLY if all nations in Europe are removed , if not , then I am ANTI-EU

EU cannot function with nations within it having so much power

Darryl Campbell
17-03-15, 17:41
Interesting results, I'm very pro-EU myself but I love diversity in opinion. I'd love to hear from some people who are anti-EU.

Lacroix
18-03-15, 00:33
I am very pro-EU too. Ofcourse there are things only national gouvernments can decide on. But many things should be handeld by Brussels. Foreign-policy for example. I also think the level of education and healthcare should be the same in every country in the EU. To have a common foreign policy we should also have a European Army. Combining all the European army's to one so we can be a better partner in NATO and can act on ourselves without the finite help of the USA. The crisis in Ukrain, for example, could have been avoided if the EU had already integrated to a federation.

Piro Ilir
20-07-15, 22:38
I am pro EU. But EU need to change. Only one constitution, only one government, only one army, only one currency, only one borderline, etc etc. They need more centralization, if they want less problems and troubles on the future. They need to be a real state, as it is
well USA

Dinarid
27-05-16, 04:12
I want a united Europe, but there must be freedom for all peoples (like mine), border controls, less power for Brussels to set policies, no enforcement of laws based on liberal-leftist moral codes, restricted immigration, and no federalism. To me, European federalists are mentally insane fascists. You can't get Slavs to join if you force your morals and ethnocentrism on us, and immigration (especially Islamic).

Dinarid
27-05-16, 04:14
I am pro EU. But EU need to change. Only one constitution, only one government, only one army, only one currency, only one borderline, etc etc. They need more centralization, if they want less problems and troubles on the future. They need to be a real state, as it is
well USA

But we don't want that. Do you care about the desires of the European people? Europeans did not sign up to give away their countries, only to form a union to prevent further violence, but Brussels is corrupt and out of control. Europe isn't supposed to be like America, Europe is made up of different countries, with different currencies, borders, etc.

Dinarid
27-05-16, 04:16
Can we say the same about Canada and USA?
To an extent, but the nations of Canada and America are already part of a larger entity to which they are loyal and there are far less cultural differences.

LeBrok
27-05-16, 04:21
To an extent, but the nations of Canada and America are already part of a larger entity to which they are loyal and there are far less cultural differences.Like between me and my Muslim or Hindu neighbor?

LeBrok
27-05-16, 04:22
I want a united Europe, but there must be freedom for all peoples (like mine), border controls, less power for Brussels to set policies, no enforcement of laws based on liberal-leftist moral codes, restricted immigration, and no federalism. To me, European federalists are mentally insane fascists. You can't get Slavs to join if you force your morals and ethnocentrism on us, and immigration (especially Islamic). So you want a United Europe but every country doing their own thing? There is already system invented like this. It is called anarchy.

Dinarid
27-05-16, 04:23
Like between my and my Muslim or Hindu neighbor?
I think as long as your neighbors are loyal to Canada that is great, who would complain. But in Europe we have many different diverse cultures that have lived here for centuries if not millennia, and to take away their sovereignty to put them in some superstate is a bad thing in my opinion.

LeBrok
27-05-16, 04:26
I think as long as your neighbors are loyal to Canada that is great, who would complain. But in Europe we have many different diverse cultures that have lived here for centuries if not millennia, and to take away their sovereignty to put them in some superstate is a bad thing in my opinion.
So let me get it straight. You are for European Union but at the same time you are afraid of it? Perhaps it is like getting married, starting your own family. You are gaining a lot but you are losing your independence. Exciting and scary experience at the same time.

Dinarid
27-05-16, 04:42
So let me get it straight. You are for European Union but at the same time you are afraid of it? Perhaps it is like getting married, starting your own family. You are gaining a lot but you are losing your independence.
I am afraid of it as it stands now. I don't see that it should be like marriage- I think it should be a simple alliance like NATO or CIS to arbitrate between and help promote commerce for member states with common defence as well.

LeBrok
27-05-16, 04:58
I am afraid of it as it stands now. I don't see that it should be like marriage- I think it should be a simple alliance like NATO or CIS to arbitrate between and help promote commerce for member states with common defence as well.Even under some limited military and trade alliance it dictates compliance to common rules, some loss of independence. There is also involvement of pan-state judicial system in trade disputes, trade rules, taxes and fees paid in support of common army.

Dinarid
27-05-16, 05:18
Even under some limited military and trade alliance it dictates compliance to common rules, some loss of independence. There is also involvement of pan-state judicial system in trade disputes, trade rules, taxes and fees paid in support of common army.
By independence, I mean the local government has more power than the government. And this arbitration is only between nations. Some external influence is not necessarily the worst thing.

Piro Ilir
02-06-16, 15:02
But we don't want that. Do you care about the desires of the European people? Europeans did not sign up to give away their countries, only to form a union to prevent further violence, but Brussels is corrupt and out of control. Europe isn't supposed to be like America, Europe is made up of different countries, with different currencies, borders, etc.
If we want that EU works, it should be a state akin to USA. These countries whose want to not give their sovereignty to the union, better let them go. It would be better for all. EU need to be a real state.

Piro Ilir
02-06-16, 15:04
So you want a United Europe but every country doing their own thing? There is already system invented like this. It is called anarchy.
A lot of today's problems on Europe are caused by this mess. No one knows what really~ EU~ means.

Piro Ilir
02-06-16, 15:08
I think as long as your neighbors are loyal to Canada that is great, who would complain. But in Europe we have many different diverse cultures that have lived here for centuries if not millennia, and to take away their sovereignty to put them in some superstate is a bad thing in my opinion.
If that~ super state~ as you already called, would be a liberal-democratic one, I don't see what's the problem here.

Today the indigenous population of USA, are maintaining their language and some of their cultural heritage.

Piro Ilir
02-06-16, 15:13
So let me get it straight. You are for European Union but at the same time you are afraid of it? Perhaps it is like getting married, starting your own family. You are gaining a lot but you are losing your independence. Exciting and scary experience at the same time.
That kind of marriage it's destined to fail. It doesn't work if both guys are not taking their responsibility and this includes to loose some freedom. If you want your freedom, please, don't get married [emoji23] .

Piro Ilir
02-06-16, 15:16
I am afraid of it as it stands now. I don't see that it should be like marriage- I think it should be a simple alliance like NATO or CIS to arbitrate between and help promote commerce for member states with common defence as well.
Now, it's a mess. Nor a state, nor an organization such as NATO.
Or get married, or stay bachelor. Don't stay in the middle.

bicicleur
02-06-16, 15:47
If we want that EU works, it should be a state akin to USA. These countries whose want to not give their sovereignty to the union, better let them go. It would be better for all. EU need to be a real state.

well, first of all let the European government be elected then like the federal government is in the US

now the EU government members are appointed by the political parties
most of them are semi-retired politicians who are getting an overpaid pension by residing in the EU government for a couple of years
they like to make big speeches but they have no acountability at all for what they say or do

the whole system should be reformed, but the politicians won't do that, it is to favourable for themseves as it is now

Sonnenburg
07-06-16, 20:55
I think that European Union idea was hijacked by former Euro-'Conmunists' who were disappointed the way Soviet Union turned out. Euro-commune builders wanted 'gentler and softer' version of Lenin and "radical communist of the Communist Party of Germany (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany),Karl Liebknecht (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Liebknecht) and Rosa Luxemburg (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg)". Both versions failed terribly in both countries. Nothing came out of Weimar experiment also. The idea of Europeans living with Europeans in peace is great. We all know who was the biggest 'fan' of that idea-Herr Adolph... This why, no matter how the extremist-left tries to impose 'multi-culti'- it will not work, because to work as Pan-European state it has to be a State. That means one culture, one language and one tradition. Now, what tradition created Europe as we know; Europe of 'Vienna miracle' when polish Europeans saved the rest of Europe from the Sultan? Isn't Chistianity? That all uniting idea of 'holly roman empire for every one'. Remember what the last Pope ( the one that won the war with the Soviets) said? He reminded to include in European charter the words about European Christianity, because without it - it's no Europe.
Now we have about to happen breakthrough in robotics. That will eliminate the need for 'uneducated work force' in Europe. Nice, right? So, why do Europe invite in millions 'uneducated workforce' from totally foreign culture? 'Super political post-'communistic' so called elite needs votes to stay in power. It's Brezhnev's era in Soviet Union part two.
Good luck, my dear Europe...

LeBrok
08-06-16, 05:47
I think that European Union idea was hijacked by former Euro-'Conmunists' who were disappointed the way Soviet Union turned out. Euro-commune builders wanted 'gentler and softer' version of Lenin and "radical communist of the Communist Party of Germany (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany),Karl Liebknecht (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Liebknecht) and Rosa Luxemburg (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg)". Both versions failed terribly in both countries. Nothing came out of Weimar experiment also. The idea of Europeans living with Europeans in peace is great. We all know who was the biggest 'fan' of that idea-Herr Adolph... This why, no matter how the extremist-left tries to impose 'multi-culti'- it will not work, because to work as Pan-European state it has to be a State. That means one culture, one language and one tradition. Now, what tradition created Europe as we know; Europe of 'Vienna miracle' when polish Europeans saved the rest of Europe from the Sultan? Isn't Chistianity? That all uniting idea of 'holly roman empire for every one'. Remember what the last Pope ( the one that won the war with the Soviets) said? He reminded to include in European charter the words about European Christianity, because without it - it's no Europe.
Now we have about to happen breakthrough in robotics. That will eliminate the need for 'uneducated work force' in Europe. Nice, right? So, why do Europe invite in millions 'uneducated workforce' from totally foreign culture? 'Super political post-'communistic' so called elite needs votes to stay in power. It's Brezhnev's era in Soviet Union part two.
Good luck, my dear Europe...
I can see your dramma. You were borne 1000 years too late. Take your horse and a lance and go on crusade.

Sonnenburg
09-06-16, 03:03
That may be right, still, there is a saying that no one is born in a wrong time.

Dinarid
09-06-16, 05:06
If we want that EU works, it should be a state akin to USA. These countries whose want to not give their sovereignty to the union, better let them go. It would be better for all. EU need to be a real state.
Even if some countries want to give up their culture and betray their history, it won't end well. It will be broken up by separatism. You basically want to create a larger, more advanced, modern, and thus more dangerous Jugoslavija.

Garrick
30-07-16, 00:28
Mass migration a people to Europe from wider African and Asian areas create big challenges and require new solutions. Experiences show that individual countries cannot solve alone these challenges. EU level is necessary. These days we can read about European border forces. It is right direction, and in this way EU become stronger and more coherent.

LeBrok
30-07-16, 04:27
Mass migration a people to Europe from wider African and Asian areas create big challenges and require new solutions. Experiences show that individual countries cannot solve alone these challenges. EU level is necessary. These days we can read about European border forces. It is right direction, and in this way EU become stronger and more coherent.Exactly. This should be the biggest dialogue all EU countries should be involved in. There has to be a unified front and solution. Immigration should be controlled and in manageable level, otherwise it is a mess, not good for anyone.
I said this 3 years ago when the big problem started, and I stand by it now.

gstq98
19-12-16, 07:17
The EU needs to centralize itself further in order to become a key player in international geopolitics independent of both Russian and American interests.