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smoke
03-06-05, 15:08
After a slight break from these questions (with thanks to Mycernius for keeping them going), I return with one that really does interest me.
As Dr Martin Luther King Jr infamously once said "We hold these truth's to be self evident, that all men are created equal".
And that bring's me on to my question.

"Are all men created equal?"

As with all my other questions, your answers should reflect your opinions because, as i've said before, I believe that peoples opinions usually have more worth than truths.

Anchyyy
03-06-05, 15:49
I think they are created equal, but they are defently not equal, so far as i know. :relief:

Duo
03-06-05, 15:53
Hmmmm, No

I don't beleive all men are created equal, I beleive all men should be equal in the eyes of the law and that everyone has the same equal rights as each other and what not, but in terms if all men are equal I think that's not true. No matter what society, nature works by having a hiearchy, and there some of us blessed with more talent than others, but I beleive that everyone serves an equal function........ ahhhh it's confusing............... I want to say that yes we are all equal under nature's eyes and what not for we all have a function to serve, but we are not equal in terms of comparison with each other because some of us outclass the others....

kirei_na_me
03-06-05, 16:11
Well, if we want to get technical about it, that line was from the Declaration of Independence, written by Thomas Jefferson, who got it from John Locke... :p

And I don't even know where to begin on this one. You pose difficult questions. Of course, I need to think about these difficult questions. Sometimes, it seems my mind has turned to mush from staying home with children!

Tim33
04-06-05, 10:58
Depends, if you mean are they created equal from there abilities i do no believe so. Some are created with brains capable of learning at a fast rate, bodies that can perform greater sporting achievements. Alot of it is down to how you live your life but some is based on things before you are born. Certain diseases to handicap you in a certain way etc. So no some people are better then others at differnt things.

In a social treatment way then again no. People of differnt colours and ethnic backgrounds are all treated differently and even sex's.
In England WOMEN are treated far better then men :p
However these treatments often come with reasons, many ethnic background in England do come from poorer then average lives, this makes them behave differntly to other people and yes even increase crime etc. Because of this they are often treated differntly and suspiciously.People treat them as lower and some times try not to notice them at all.
However those that get out of this poorer background and create better lives act and behave as anyone else. Its is down to stereotyping.

Mycernius
04-06-05, 11:40
No. Each person is born with different abilities due to whatever genetic information that is passed onto from your parents. If you want everyone to be equal then the world would be a very boring place. Competitive sports would be a waste of time, as everyone would compete at the same level and get exactly the same results. Everyone would look the same, eat the same and have the same goals in life. A society of drones. It is our uniqueness that has made society move on and develop. We push ourselves to be better at what we are and do due to someone being better than you.

smoke
05-06-05, 20:47
No. Each person is born with different abilities due to whatever genetic information that is passed onto from your parents. If you want everyone to be equal then the world would be a very boring place. Competitive sports would be a waste of time, as everyone would compete at the same level and get exactly the same results. Everyone would look the same, eat the same and have the same goals in life. A society of drones. It is our uniqueness that has made society move on and develop. We push ourselves to be better at what we are and do due to someone being better than you.
But do you not think that, for example, Man A and Man B can be created equal...same physical attributes and the same mental attributes yet Man A works hard, exercises, studies etc and Man B is quite content to stuff himself in front of the TV. Those two were 'created' equal but Man A will excel over Mab B in most circumstances, don't you think?
Or what if Man B is born into poverty whereas Man A is born into wealth...then surely Man A will have a 'better' chance in life?

Maybe people can be 'created' equal but they develop due to there circumstances or the society around them.

smoke
05-06-05, 21:16
In England WOMEN are treated far better then men :p

You're a brave man! :p
But in some ways i do agree...however, even 50 years ago that would have been a completely diferent story.
I think you have to realise that a large percentage of the female workforce (especially in the prvate sector) are still paid less than their male co-workers. Sexual discrimiation is more heard of for women as opposed to men (although i'm not saying it doesn't happen to men!).
I think when women are treated better it is because people are so petrified to be seen to discriminate...i think the same applies to race.
In a way segregation still exists...but it's almost opposite to that of numerous years ago. In american black people were forced to be segregated, but now i believe segregation is more of a choice (in certain circumstances). I saw a programme that looked at rich black communities in the southern states of america...and although they live in massive houses and have money in abundance they still lived in all black communites...rich all black communites. When asked when they didn't choose to intergrate (there were rich white estates just up the street) they couldn't really answer.

Maybe one day "The sons of farmer slave and sons of farmer slaver" can live together in unity, intergrated as one nation.

Chris Weimer
06-06-05, 01:17
What Jefferson was talking about was equal rights in the eyes of the law and liberty - not physical qualities.

smoke
06-06-05, 21:34
What Jefferson was talking about was equal rights in the eyes of the law and liberty - not physical qualities.
"...with liberty and justice for all."
My point in this post was more aimed towards equal rights/oppourtunity as opposed to attributes that we may develop or be born with.

Chris Weimer
07-06-05, 02:29
then yes, all people should be equal under the law - no privileges! even for executives or congress!!

Tim33
07-06-05, 02:46
I disagree, not everyone deserves to be equal under law. Released pedeophiles for example should not get all the rights other people get for safety reasons.

Some peoples jobs require non equality. What if the whole police force or army where disabled.
Some would say surgeon's with AIDS may not be such a good plan.

Equality would be nice in one way but it depends how picky you want to be. Certain lines have to be drawn.

smoke
07-06-05, 15:24
I disagree, not everyone deserves to be equal under law. Released pedeophiles for example should not get all the rights other people get for safety reasons.

Some peoples jobs require non equality. What if the whole police force or army where disabled.
Some would say surgeon's with AIDS may not be such a good plan.

Equality would be nice in one way but it depends how picky you want to be. Certain lines have to be drawn.
but ultimately, before we make these life choices...are we 'created' equal?

I agree with you, once someone becomes a criminal (and takes away peoples rights) then they shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else.

DGS_VEX
10-06-05, 16:05
first ask, is there such a thing as ordianry people?

even if this is not offensive, it means alot. alot of scientist and many other of thier college will say that there is no such thing as ordianry people.

you cannot measure what going inside a person at any given time. great leaders have risen to power by following thier hearts, but corrupt leaders have too.

a personal attribute, charistma, why others climb the ranks and others refuse to follow

if all men were angels, there would be no need for a law that governs the land.

http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg

InnerVision
11-06-05, 18:57
a 14 yrs old is having following words as signatures.

You're just an illusion... when I'm awaken my tears have dried in the sand of sleep... I'm a rose blooming in the desert... :cool:

while @ the age of 14 i was reading 'Tarzan's adventures' . :souka:

Is it a proof that we 're not Created equal .... or what ... ?? *Geez*

__________________________________________________ ________

There are 3 fundamental factors which decide a human's personality.
1-Genetics (Family traits )
2-Environment
3-Faith (religion etc. )

& as effect of all 3 would be different on different humans so they would be never equal.

But 'Yes' (agreeing with others ) __its the 'Law' that should take all people as Equal.
(as my Prophet (saw) said,"Neither an arab has any superiority to non-arab nor vice versa but on the basis of fear of Allah (as depicted by his/her following the right path)"
Translation : Racism is hideous in the eyes of Islamic Law.)

Anchyyy
11-06-05, 19:43
a 14 yrs old is having following words as signatures.

You're just an illusion... when I'm awaken my tears have dried in the sand of sleep... I'm a rose blooming in the desert...

And? I like that song which btw perfectly describes my life. :okashii:

lexico
11-06-05, 23:19
While all men are created different in biological traits, and in cultural and socio-economic constraints, there are principles that I believe modern societies have come to respect.

1. equality in right to seek justice, physical protection, nourishment, education, work, compensation, and to pursue individual goals in a non-threatening surrounding.

2. freedom to travel, to choose place of residence, to express one's ideas, to be free from (a)religious pressures, to form political groups, to vote in multi-party democratic elections, and to vote on laws of self-government.

3. fraternity to help those in need, and to ask for help when in need.

edit: Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/rights/50/decla.htm) Dec 10 1948

zentachi
12-06-05, 00:53
"Are all men created equal?"

We are not created equal,but we have equal rights!

smoke
13-06-05, 13:03
"Are all men created equal?"

We are not created equal,but we have equal rights!
but do we really have equal rights?
In a perfect world sure, but in reality i don't think so.
It's a sad fact but people are still judged by their race, creed, sexual preference, gender, abilities (i could go on for a while here!).
People should be judged by their actions and personality but at the same time try to understand their situation, their beliefs and their views, as we are all individuals...
We may not neccesarily agree with someone's views but we should at least try to understand those views and (if neccesary) educate those individuals if, for example, their views are discriminative.

The way i see it, we can not change the world, but we can change ourselves.
We should treat each other as equals and individuals, even if they don't do that for us.