Politicians - Do you like 'em...or loathe 'em?

It doesn't matter which side of the political fence you sit on ....

It doesn't matter which country you come from or live in ...

It doesn't matter how old you are, or what you do ....

.... but do you feel that, more and more, that .... our professional politicians (and their beauraucratic 'toadies') are all just ?gtaking us to the cleaners?h?

Just what happened to the notion of ?gPublic Service?h and a dedication to making society operate effectively...as opposed to a career of self aggrandizement and the quest for a bigger pension; of the eternal ?gphoto-op?h and promises that we know can never be kept?

When did things really start to go from bad to worse ?

I know that here in Canada, we have inherited several 'generations' now, of pretty ineffectual gentlemen (and ladies) from all political parties who have succeeded over the years in achieving very little other than to totally pee everybody off !

But, worse ... I think they know it .... and don't care !

Wasted public funds on a hilarious scale, impossible promises, meaningless rambling ?ganswers?h to direct questions, waffling, ?gflip-flopping?h, use of public funds for private purposes ( - all with a damned good excuse,of course !) - huge ?ggolden handshakes?hfor people who should probably be in jail – all are rampant, it seems. Not to mention the appointment of expensive committees and commissions to investigate the most ridiculous things ( like, ?gare wealthy people likely to be more healthy than poor people ... ??h).

Am I right ?

Is it getting worse ?

Or was it always thus ?

Would love to know what it's like where you come from.


?W????

Politics, derived from the words "poli", which means many; and "tics", which are blood sucking parasites. Yep! That's what most of them are, basically.

They'd squeeze all the taxes they can from you, and squander it for "R n R", kickbacks, and my personal favorite: "beautification projects" with their names painted all over it.

We call em trapos (traditional politicians).

Sensuikan San said:

.... but do you feel that, more and more, that .... our professional politicians (and their beauraucratic 'toadies') are all just ?gtaking us to the cleaners?h?

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Yes.

Sensuikan San said:

Just what happened to the notion of ?gPublic Service?h and a dedication to making society operate effectively...as opposed to a career of self aggrandizement and the quest for a bigger pension; of the eternal ?gphoto-op?h and promises that we know can never be kept?

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I suppose it's inevitable. The masses reach a state of homeostasis, then certain people start to find out what they can get away with, and they push it to the extreme. Essentially everyone is selfish: wanting only what's best for themselves. Politicians just find what's best for themselves by exploiting everyone else.

Sensuikan San said:

When did things really start to go from bad to worse ?

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When we weren't paying attention.

Sensuikan San said:

Wasted public funds on a hilarious scale, impossible promises, meaningless rambling ?ganswers?h to direct questions, waffling, ?gflip-flopping?h, use of public funds for private purposes ( - all with a damned good excuse,of course !) - huge ?ggolden handshakes?hfor people who should probably be in jail – all are rampant, it seems. Not to mention the appointment of expensive committees and commissions to investigate the most ridiculous things ( like, ?gare wealthy people likely to be more healthy than poor people ... ??h).

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It seems to me that it's all a matter of doing as little as possible. Until people stand up and say "just what the hell are you doing with our money, and how is it making anything better in any substantial way?" politicians will continue to leech off of the taxpayers. This view is one of the biggest reasons that I don't vote for new taxes. I figure if they can't figure out how to use our money wisely, they shouldn't get any more. They're nothing more than children on allowance to me. Until you prove to me that you can do something constructive with what you've been given, I won't give you any more.

Sensuikan San said:

Is it getting worse ?

Or was it always thus ?

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I can't really say. All of my opinions have come from what I've seen around me. I haven't studied history enough to be confident in any assertion that I make. However, that aside, I would say that from my knowledge of human nature it has always been thus, and that we follow cycles from altruism to self-indulgence to the point of self-destruction, and then correct ourselves again. That seems to me to be the reason for so many different dynasties and empires throughout history (i.e. that accounts for the rise and fall of so many).

They are (mostly) all corrupt parasites who do nothing but steal our money and serve thier own best interest. I have no interest in anything a politician has to say because I automatically assume it to be a lie with a hidden agenda behind it. I wasn't allways like this though. It took years of broken promises, scandals and stealing our money (literally as the Liberals here have been doing for decades) to alienate me agianst politics. I doubt they will ever change and neither will my opinions about them.

It looks like there's almost a consensus that politicians are lying, self-serving, stealing bastards. But complaining about their low moral standards does little more than symbolic revenge: what is needed is an on-line accountability blog that tracks a politician from day one. There are just a couple more classes of people that need to be included in the fold: government employees serving within the administration, employees in the legislation business, and those working in the law enforcement business. Not that every single one of them are bad, but with power comes corruption and influence. To weed out the bad apples, it would be nice to check up on work performance in serving the piblic. Since these branches of government are funded by taxpayers, it is only right that they are given full access to the servants personnel evaluation records.

To the effect: just as an emplyee of a private company will be responsible embezzlement or mishandling business, so sould gov't employees. Why are gov't employees given immunity when they should be penalized for substandard performance ?

I and one coworker were terrorized by three small-time mob members. The police treated them with undue respect, who kept on assaulting my coworker under the tacit green light. I believe the police officers were bribed before and after, who let the gang members play dirty tricks such as faking injury when they were the ones who attacked. I'd love to have the corrupt officers put out of employment, and put behind bars !

Back on topic, it would be nice to be able to hold politicians for lying, as they reaped dishonest benefits by misrepresenting facts or intentions. Whethere they meant it or not, failure to live up should be punishable as is the case with dishonest business activities.

Just to lighten up a litle

Sensuikan San said:

It doesn't matter which side of the political fence you sit on ....

It doesn't matter which country you come from or live in ...

It doesn't matter how old you are, or what you do ....

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Brings to mind a song by Backstreet Boys: As Long As You Love Me. Was that the title ?

In my opinion, I feel when people first enter politics they have good intetions to change things, but once in politics there are bad influences floating around. And it seems that politicians have no choice but to be liars. But then when I look at the policies we have for healthcare, education, etc. It makes me wonder what the heck are these politicians doing to improve these things.

Maybe........

a few good apples in a barrel of rotton ones. I plan to go to my grave having never voted or freely given a penny towards helping a politician gain or keep office; just a personal hang-up of mine.

Frank

kashii:

I think one needs to be a strong person with good convictions and a strong character as to not be ruined by politics. Lying is inevitable, the masses sometimes have to be fooled. I think some politicians are really great. One that I like, you may hate him for Iraq or what not, but I think Tony Blair is the perfect example of a skilled politician. Smart, funny, charmin, very intelligent and quick, elaborate, he really impress you.

Frank D. White said:

a few good apples in a barrel of rotton ones. .......

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What a wonderful way of putting it, Frank!

Yes - I agree - they're not all bad - just most of 'em !

I always feel so sorry for the obvious examples of those that still hold on to ideals ... but still throw themselves into that filthy ring. Thank goodness a few of them still exist.

?W????

lexico said:

Brings to mind a song by Backstreet Boys: As Long As You Love Me. Was that the title ?

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:clap:

Just remind me to slap you across the back of the head, next time I see you , young man!

:beer:

Politicians have always, and will continue to take us to the cleaners as most people don't pay enough attention. Their attention is purposly diverted elsewhere to TV, sports, and working to pay the bills. The majority couldn't care less about politics and vote based on seven second sound bites from the news.

One does not choose to go into politics in this country, one is selected by the elites and they have to pay their way in with their own money. First they have to make campaign contributions to already sitting politicians. (This is why most politicians are wealthy individuals) If they are deemed worthy enough they will receive campaign support and funds from their party. This could come in the way of a few leaders of the party campaigning on their behalf to lend credence and to convince the masses that this is the right person and to donate money to their campaign.

Think about it for a second. Why would anyone in their right mind spend millions of their own money on a campaign for a job that pays $165,000 a year? They cannot ever hope to recoup that money in a span of 2, 4, or 6 years. Is it because they want to do good for the community they represent? No. It is because of the "benefits" received once elected. These can come from lobbyists for the major manufacturing, pharmaceutical, and banking companies. It can come from foreign lobbyists, or just about anyone who has an interest in their area. These benefits are often in the form of some kind of cash or "donation" to ones campaign. The benefits are too numerous to mention, but suffice it to say, it will exceed what they spent on their campaign sooner or later. Why do you think there has been no "campaign reform" bill in this country that "they" have been talking about for years? Because then there would be no benefit or reason to go into politics.

Once elected they have to do the bidding of the party elders. Their primary job is to get re-elected and they begin working on it immediately. They are told what to vote on and how. If a politician says, "well, I cant vote no on that bill as I promised my people I would support it," the elders will decide if there are enough votes to get the bill passed or not. Then they will be allowed to vote the way they want.

If they are good little boys and girls and do what they are told they may just get a few projects for their city or town. If they don't do what they are told, funds and support dry up and they can't wage a campaign and thus cannot get re-elected.

Someone may go into politics because they desire to do good, but they are soon taught how things are done and become disallusioned and some quit. Most, however, give in to the greed and easy money, the back stabbing and ass kissing, and give not one thought to the people they are supposed to represent. Those that quit never blow the whistle as they don't want to disappear in a plane crash or have a scandle created to force them out of office or be embarrassed.

Let's take one example from the most recent presidential campaign. Howard Dean was the front-runner and was expected to sail to the nomination for the democratic party. He was ahead in the polls, he had the full support of the party elders and such and he was popular with the younger generation. Eveyone expected him to win. However, since he was not very rich he depended on funds from the party and campaign donations. He soon began to receive a helluva lot of money from the masses in his on-line campaign and was warned to stop it. He received so much money that he realized that he really didn't need much money from the party and such.

He began to make bold statements and this really pissed off the party as he was becoming a maverick and was not toeing the line. They then decided to sabatoge his campaign and he lost one. Then he lost another. After this loss he tried to fire up his supporters and made that now famous speech where he screams at the end. This is all "they" needed. He was immediately demonized as a nut and crazy in the print and TV media and it was non stop. His support waned, funds dried up and he was forced out as he never won another primary. All because he didn't toe the party line and do what he was told. He thought he could do it himself with just his supporters and in another world he probably would have won. But not in this world where the elites and rich control everything.

He soon made ammends I guess and in a back room somewhere, after receiving his scolding and spanking, he must've promised "them" that he would be a good boy and listen to his elders. He was rewarded by recently being elected, by the party elders, to head the Democratic Party. He was and still is popular and they needed him for that reason in future campaigns. I'll bet he'll never step out on his own again.

Sadly, that is how politics is run in this country. They don't care about the working man or woman who pays their salary and they know the working man or woman doesn't care about politics. So they keep on keeping on what they have been doing for the last 200 years and the little "sheeple" keep on voting, if they vote at all, for the person they are led believe in the media is the right person without doing any research on their own.

sensuikan san said:

Is it getting worse ?

Or was it always thus ?

Would love to know what it's like where you come from.

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It was always thus and always be thus as long as the average Joe Blow has $20 in his pocket, has easy access to credit, is forced into debt so he must continue working sometimes two jobs to pay his debts, and has no time to really see what is going on around him. "They" make sure the average citizen doesn't have the time to realize what is going on around him.

Politicians: My View

Normally politicians are just annoying liars. But Alex Salmond, Scotland's First Minister is great, he's carismatic and cares about the people of the country. He also tries to lighten up politics and make it accesible to all which is quite important.

Don't vote. You are only endorsing an invalid and corrupt system.

Chris said:

Don't vote. You are only endorsing an invalid and corrupt system.

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That's right. Either lead a revolution to clean all the mess, or let yourself govern by a bunch of corrupted oligarchs.

Pigs around a trough every last one of them with the exception of one great man who entered into Valhalla 64 years ago.

Some people are in politics for the right reasons and do make valuable contributions to human society. Let's not lose sight of that! Furthermore, government can and does play a very positive role in our lives.

However, where politicians do muck it up, or act dishonestly, it's our job (the people) to hold them to account and kick them out of office. Everyone needs to have a healthy dose of civic duty, in my opinion. You can't blame the politicians if you're not willing to give them a clip 'round the ear to keep them in line!

True Marc - I can see why people complain about politicians given the fact that they are so CORRUPT these days, but you only have to read a bit of Tom Paine to know what to do about it. You think people in the French or American revolutions just sat around moaning about their corrupt politicians? No, they got off their seats and did something about it! I'm not suggesting revolution (lol) but let's not pretend we're powerless to do something about it. We live in democracies, for crying out loud, if you have a problem with your politicians then you should SHOUT at them for it!! lol

jbuk said:

True Marc - I can see why people complain about politicians given the fact that they are so CORRUPT these days, but you only have to read a bit of Tom Paine to know what to do about it. You think people in the French or American revolutions just sat around moaning about their corrupt politicians? No, they got off their seats and did something about it! I'm not suggesting revolution (lol) but let's not pretend we're powerless to do something about it. We live in democracies, for crying out loud, if you have a problem with your politicians then you should SHOUT at them for it!! lol

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Agreed. They steadfastly dodge an obvious 21st century mechanism for ensuring engagement with the public: electronic referenda. We can do all sorts online: income and business tax, car tax, buy and sell, personal and corporate banking, etc, etc - all serious and important subjects.

Why not holding a referendum on all key issues: going to war; proposed treaties; taxation changes - all key issues. Why not? It would make them surplus to requirement in the current sense, and much more accountable to us - the people.

I agree that a few politicos are honest, well-meaning people. Not many though. They expect us to keep choosing between the same old tired parties that came into being hundreds of years ago and whose core agendas haven't changed since. Having got in, they ignore the voters until four years or so have gone by and they're up for re-election.

Boycott the next national election to make the point. When turnout percentages drop far enough they'll have to sit up and pay serious attention. To do otherwise means you are merely endorsing a bankrupt and inept system.

Online referenda - a 21st century revolution.