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View Full Version : Bombs In London? Hope All Our English Members Are Ok !



Frank D. White
07-07-05, 12:46
Not to many details in yet, but there were explosions in the London area in subways and a bus during the morning rush hour. It mentioned a few people killed; I always worry one of our members will be hurt when I hear news like this.

Frank

:worried: :bawling: :(

Maciamo
07-07-05, 12:55
The BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4659093.stm) reports that there were at least blasts in 6 underground stations and one double-decker bus. They say they aren't sure whether it is a terrorist attack, although it appeared that many people died.

How could it not be a criminal or terrorist act when 7 bombs explode almost simultaneously in different parts of the city, targetting busy stations (including the business district stations of Liverpool St, Moorgate and Bank) at the morning rush hours (the first blast was reported at 8:49am) ? For me it clearly looks like a new 9/11. It's just that London doesn't really have skyscrapers except the new district of Canary Wharf (incl. the HSBC and CitiGroup towers) a bit outside the center, but they must be much better guarded than anywhere else.

None of the bombs were in particularily touristical areas, but all quite crowded with commuters (King's Cross and Liverpool St are two of London's biggest stations).

It remains to be seen whether this is connected with Al Qaida, the IRA or others. The fact that it happened less than 24h after London was chosen for hosting the 2012 Olympics may be related too. Or would there be a connection to the G8 summit in Scotland ?

They could call the incident "double 'O' 7" but without the 'O' - just "double 7" (7th July).

-----EDIT----
Correction : it seems that Bank Station wasn't attacked but Aldgate (the Bangladeshi and African district) was. This is more surprising as Muslim terrorists wouldn't attack a Muslim area, but rather a financial district like 'Bank'.

I passed through some of these stations only 2 weeks ago. The timing couldn't be more strange as I justly went to the British embassy in Tokyo a few hours ago !

Maciamo
07-07-05, 13:31
There is still not the slightest information on Japanese TV. Maybe at the 9pm news in 30min. Ironcially, they were justly saying yesterday on NHK when talking about the choice of London for the Olympics that "it wouldn't been strange if a terrorist attack were to happen in London in the (near) future".

Kara_Nari
07-07-05, 13:41
Yes, I too am worried, I have a lot of friends residing in London... have been receiving numerous 'we're ok' emails today... as I dont have a television, I only just got wind of the devastating news from these emails...
Its horrible that such violence is conducted in the world.... SAD!

Duo
07-07-05, 13:43
I hope this is an isolated event and doesn't prompt other such attacks in other capitals around Europe. It doesn't seem like an IRA attack rather my first impression of it suggests that it is a bit similar to the madrid train attacks so maybe it's some radical fundamentalist cell that was dormant or just recently formed.

jamosaka
07-07-05, 13:44
it seems that Bank Station wasn't attacked but Aldgate (the Bangladeshi and African district) was. This is more surprising as Muslim terrorists wouldn't attack a Muslim area, but rather a financial district like 'Bank'.

You're right, Aldgate is a strange target from an 'impact' point of view. Maybe from an 'opportunity' point of view it would make sense. Wouldn't suprise me if terrorists were based in that area at all.

Thankfully there seem to be relatively few casualties, compared to Madrid and New York. I just hope nothing else is going to happen.

lonesoullost3
07-07-05, 14:22
I walked into work this morning and saw this on TV. I was utterly shocked - how could this happen to London? But at the same time - I wasn't too surprised either. London just won the Olympics for 2012 - what better time for terrorists to attack and say "We can still get you." Nevertheless, this is horrible. A time of celebration has immediately turned to a time of sorrow and fear. I hope everyone in London is ok and that things will turn out for the better. Thankfully there are very few deaths so far (and let's hope it remains that way.)

And I just heard Tony Blair is returning to London from G8.

The New York Times was just delivered to my work. Ironically, the front page shows the celebration of the olympics. It's sad how quickly things have turned around.

Miss_apollo7
07-07-05, 14:47
I am shocked!

In writing, it is still not confirmed who is to blame for the bombings, however, an Al Quaida cell has claimed to be responsible through a known Islamic website.

I personally don't think it is Irish terrorists, due to the planning, timing, and the coordinated attacks.

There are seven confirmed sites in London, and I must admit I was shocked -and still am, having lived and visited London I know of all these places, especially King's Cross and Edgware Rd.

Two confirmed killed according to BBC, however, police say more are dead from Edgware Rd, but still awaiting "go" to go public....According to CNN, however, they are quick to confirm that 10 are dead so far.

Killing innocent people is a very evil deed, and I hope they find out exactly who is to blame for this.

lonesoullost3
07-07-05, 14:52
I just read this...Former Green Beret lieutenant colonel, Gordon Cucullu, Predictions for 2005.

http://www.californiarepublic.org/archives/Columns/Cucullu/20041230CuculluPredictions.html

Islamic terrorists attack the underground in London. Explosions kill hundreds.

Miss_apollo7
07-07-05, 15:10
Many have predicted that it could happen in London, and especially the London Underground would be a target.

Policeforces have been rehearsing this kind of attack in London just in case, especially after 9/11...

shocking...

I am afraid the fatality numbers will rise, as many are severely burned, and have terrible limb injuries...

Void
07-07-05, 15:16
Joining to your worries. Hope, all JRef members are OK, and the wounded people will get well soon, and attack won`t continue.

Miss_apollo7
07-07-05, 15:57
-- Death toll in London blasts at least 40, U.S. sources say, citing British
government as source.

(according to CNN). BBC has not confirmed the death toll yet.

Iron Chef
07-07-05, 16:01
Looks like the body count is rising... (according to the latest updates around the web) although the British govt. has yet to release anything official. Hopefully we'll have some concrete figures soon in terms of loss of life and re: the extent of the actual damage.

Gaki
07-07-05, 16:03
I just woke up and got a message from my friend about bombs on public transport, thought he was joking :|

Still cant believe it...really shocking...

Mycernius
07-07-05, 17:34
Current numbers for dead are a total of 33, 21 at Kings Cross being the most. It is typical of these 'brave' terrorists to attack civilian targets. All they have managed to do is piss people off about them even more. I just cannot understand the mindset of these type of people.
Thanks for your concern Frank and Jrefs other non-British members.

Pachipro
07-07-05, 18:20
I see they are now reporting over 40 dead and over 1,000 injured. I feel for you guys. I was returning home early this morning from my nightly run to Memphis, TN when they broke into FOX news on the satellite radio about the bombings. I just couldn't believe it. Not again. My first thought was that it might be some French extremists angry about the awarding of the Olympics to London. Then I thought about the G-8 summit and figured some extremists may have wanted to send a message. Now they are reporting, in unconfirmed reports, that a European cell of Al-Queda is claiming responsibility.

My thoughts go out to all those in London.

Mimmy_08
07-07-05, 18:34
Oh my gosh! Lets pray for them. I hope all jref member is alraight.

kirei_na_me
07-07-05, 18:41
My thoughts go out to everyone as well. The first I heard of it was this morning(about 7 a.m. here; 12 pm there), when I first got up. I had to take my car in for an oil change and it was all over the TV in the waiting room. The older man, who was already in the waiting room, was telling me about it when I got there. Like Pachipro, I initially thought it might have something to do with the Olympic committee decision yesterday, but later learned that it was probably a G8 connection.

It's a shame that some people think they have to take such drastic and deadly measures to get some attention. :(

I have just heard from one of my best friends, who lives in Reading. I know she goes into London on a regular basis, so I'm glad to know she's ok.

Again, my thoughts are with those who were affected by this.

Dutch Baka
07-07-05, 20:37
i have been following it today, every hour.. just hope it wont get worser...

my mind is with the familie victems.. !!!!!

i agree with Blair about it is babarian to do this thing, especialy on the beginning of the G-8 were they talk about the poor people in the world, and about earth warming... trying to make the world a better place, and then this ****ERS show up... makes me angry soo much.. but i dont believe in revenge, only in justice ( even it is not perfect)

Ma Cherie
07-07-05, 21:10
Scary times we live in, isn't it? :( My heart goes out to the victim's families. But what I am more worried is the all the conflict in the that this bombing has called. Reports are saying that this was an Islamic group, and everyone knows there is a possibility there will be more resentment towards Muslims. At least I think so. :worried:

lonesoullost3
07-07-05, 22:06
The latest confirmed is 37 dead and about 700 wounded.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4661059.stm

Hopefully the count stops there.

Dutch Baka
07-07-05, 22:50
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41277000/gif/_41277669_central_londonblast5_map.gif
Blasts occurred:
Between Aldgate East and Liverpool Street tube stations
Between Russell Square and King's Cross tube stations
At Edgware Road tube station
On bus at Tavistock Square


Blast timeline
0851 Seven people die in a blast on a train 100 yards from Liverpool Street station
0856 21 people die in a blast on a train between Russell Square and King's Cross stations
0917 Seven people die in blast on a train at Edgware Road station
0947 Two people die in a blast on a number 30 bus at Tavistock Place


http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553500+s(350!x248!)http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553300+s(350!x202!)
http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553290+s(350!x270!)http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553320+s(350!x321!)
http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553367+s(350!x234!)http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553329+s(350!x419!)
http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553365+s(350!x379!)http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553331+s(350!x268!)
http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553794+s(350!x211!)http://www.nu.nl/img.db?553514+s(350!x233!)

Duo
08-07-05, 01:42
You know, it's ironic that everytime something like this happens we have the leader of the nation come up and reassure us that our way of life and lifestyle won't change despite the efforts of those behind the attacks, but truth be told the aspects of our daily life change, and a times radically. Look at the US now for example, the creation of the Dept. for Homeland Security and the Patriot acts. I mean now the rights of the US citizens are less and this causes a direct impact on the lifestyle on the average American citizen. Also after the London events here in Brussels security was stepped up a bit and in Paris it army and police rolled into the streets and train stations and other such public places. Controls of passengers and luggage increased and fear and anxiety as well. It's good to hear reasuring words but I mean when one looks around reality is different. Sadly, these people seem to be getting to us little by little. I just wonder how much more it will take until goverments in the west begin to take drastic measures, like new id cards and things like that or who knows....sometimes i have the feeling that orient and west are in a collision road, I just wonder how much longer the west will restrain itself if things keep going on in this way :souka:

Maciamo
08-07-05, 03:33
You know, it's ironic that everytime something like this happens we have the leader of the nation come up and reassure us that our way of life and lifestyle won't change despite the efforts of those behind the attacks, but truth be told the aspects of our daily life change, and a times radically. Look at the US now for example, the creation of the Dept. for Homeland Security and the Patriot acts. I mean now the rights of the US citizens are less and this causes a direct impact on the lifestyle on the average American citizen. Also after the London events here in Brussels security was stepped up a bit and in Paris it army and police rolled into the streets and train stations and other such public places. Controls of passengers and luggage increased and fear and anxiety as well.

I totally agree. Even in Tokyo security was tighten after 9/11. For example they introduce hand bags x-ray scan and visitor registration in most skyscrapers. And it's still there 4 years later. When I left London airport last month, a security woman picked up my wife in the passport queue and asked her to pass through a body scanner. There were hundreds of people around, of all races and ages, but they decided to choose a cute and innocent-looking Japanese girl on holiday. In fact she even cried after as she was wondering what happened to her and why they singled her out.

That's not really the way they'll find terrorists, and indeed had they done their job better at the same month, the terrorists would not have been able to plan and execute their attack.


It's good to hear reasuring words but I mean when one looks around reality is different. Sadly, these people seem to be getting to us little by little. I just wonder how much more it will take until goverments in the west begin to take drastic measures, like new id cards and things like that or who knows...

Sometimes I wonder if these attacks are not organised by our dear leaders themselves. In the US it is clear that 9/11 helped Bush stay president when his victory at the elections was being investigated for cheating. Then it helped him become Commander in Chief (quite a lot of power) and attack Iraq (his ultimate goal, to continue his father's work). It again helped him get re-elected, helped him pass the Patriot Act to increase the government's power and reduce citizens' rights. Whatever angle you look at it, 9/11 was good for Bush and his pals. More power, stay longer in power. And who knows what will happen next ? A dictature ?

I am amazed to see that Bush's political friends, be it Blair, Berlusconi or Koizumi, have stayed in power all the time since Bush was first elected. This is especially surprising for Japan and Italy, where Prime Ministers change almost as quickly as the seasons (sometimes faster). The last Japanese PM to stay in office for more than 2 years was Eisaku Sato from 1964 to 1972. Sato's case is also dubbious as his brother of Nobusuke Kishi, a convicted class-A war criminal later forgiven by the US to fight the communists, had been PM from 1957 to 1960.

The US have a lot of influence on Japanese politics (partly because Japan is bound to them through the US Army). It wouldn't surprise me if the PM who stay long enough receive some kind of support from the US government, while others step down rapidly. Koizumi was elected just a few month after Bush became president. Oh, what a coincidence ! More of a coincidence, Berlusconi was elected the same month. And yet one more coincidence, both of them are still there after 4 years, which is extremely unusual in their country's politics. As for Blair, it is a surpise too that he remained for so long, especially after 2 million people marched in London to protest against his support of the US-led invasion of Iraq. In Japan, any PM would have resigned had 10x less people protested publicly (but even less did).

So what ? Well, what if these guys' plan was really just to scare us, increase security, introduce ID cards (now discussing in the UK) or fingerprint checks (already implemented at US immigration), reduce our rights (Patriot Act), and convince us to go to war with some poor countries to fight the terrorists who may not live there or originate from there.

What if it was just a trick to change our way of life, and stay in office longer with increased political power ?

Duo
08-07-05, 04:09
Sometimes I wonder if these attacks are not organised by our dear leaders themselves. In the US it is clear that 9/11 helped Bush stay president when his victory at the elections was being investigated for cheating. Then it helped him become Commander in Chief (quite a lot of power) and attack Iraq (his ultimate goal, to continue his father's work). It again helped him get re-elected, helped him pass the Patriot Act to increase the government's power and reduce citizens' rights. Whatever angle you look at it, 9/11 was good for Bush and his pals. More power, stay longer in power. And who knows what will happen next ? A dictature ?

I am amazed to see that Bush's political friends, be it Blair, Berlusconi or Koizumi, have stayed in power all the time since Bush was first elected. This is especially surprising for Japan and Italy, where Prime Ministers change almost as quickly as the seasons (sometimes faster). The last Japanese PM to stay in office for more than 2 years was Eisaku Sato from 1964 to 1972. Sato's case is also dubbious as his brother of Nobusuke Kishi, a convicted class-A war criminal later forgiven by the US to fight the communists, had been PM from 1957 to 1960.

The US have a lot of influence on Japanese politics (partly because Japan is bound to them through the US Army). It wouldn't surprise me if the PM who stay long enough receive some kind of support from the US government, while others step down rapidly. Koizumi was elected just a few month after Bush became president. Oh, what a coincidence ! More of a coincidence, Berlusconi was elected the same month. And yet one more coincidence, both of them are still there after 4 years, which is extremely unusual in their country's politics. As for Blair, it is a surpise too that he remained for so long, especially after 2 million people marched in London to protest against his support of the US-led invasion of Iraq. In Japan, any PM would have resigned had 10x less people protested publicly (but even less did).

So what ? Well, what if these guys' plan was really just to scare us, increase security, introduce ID cards (now discussing in the UK) or fingerprint checks (already implemented at US immigration), reduce our rights (Patriot Act), and convince us to go to war with some poor countries to fight the terrorists who may not live there or originate from there.

What if it was just a trick to change our way of life, and stay in office longer with increased political power ?

You know, I have wondered the same thing about 9/11. Maybe not that it was the gov itself that organized it but that perhaps they knew about it and let it happen. Some say Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor as well but let it through so that the USA could enter WW2. Could 9/11 have had such a similar function, to allow the gov support for its plans on reshaping the middle east?
I mean what about all those reports warning about suspected individuals going to flight schools and what not.... why were they discarded that way ? You make very valid points about Italy.... I'm not familiar with the politics in Japan so I can't agree or not but Italian politics sure are some of the most chaotic here in Europe.

I think it is possible to manipulate a nation as u you are implying in the last paraghraph. Right now to mind only one solution comes. A strong independent bureaucracy and a strong sense of a civil society that has an independent and inqusitive mind for progress and improvement. People that can't be spolied by politics and but try to do their job in the best interest of the nation/state.
I know it sounds a bit idealistic but......

Back at the london events.......I wonder if these kind of attacks will only be limited to European contries who gave their explicit support to the US or will it spill over into other neutral or antagonistic nations such as Belgium and France ? I hope not, but if it does will the coalition against terrorism tighten and become more agressive especially in this new pre-emtive doctrine. Will european countries be drawn into this war on terror like to a full extent as the US has, and by that I mean the direct implementation of military power and resources into conflicts abroad to prevent future attacks whatever they maybe conceived as?

CC1
08-07-05, 04:38
You both make good arguments, but I don't tend to believe that it is a government conspiracy to keep power.

mad pierrot
08-07-05, 06:02
I just want to echo Frank's concern; I hope all of our members are safe.I found out about this last night just as I was going to bed, it was awful. My heart goes out to the victims. I hope these kinds of attacks will stop someday.

Maciamo
08-07-05, 06:15
I don't want to be cynical, but the likelihood of a JREF member being harmed by the bombs in London is extremely low. London is a city of 12 million people (+ tourists and othe people passing throughbut not living there, so probably over 15 million). 37 people died so far, which means 0.00005% of the resident population (less if we count non-residents). There were 700 people injured, or 0.005% of the population.

Considering that only 59 JREF members have chosen England as their country of residence, and 49 have chosen London as their city of residence, the chances that they are among the casualties are another 250,000x lower (as they only make up 1/250000 of London's population).

This gives us 0.00000002% of chance (in other words, one chance out of 5 billion) of them even having an injury. For death, there is only one chance out of 500 billion. I am not even considering in which part of London they live and whether they usually commute to work by bus/underground at the same time using these lines. That means that there is a higher chance that some JREF members anywhere in the world be in a car accident or fall down the stairs at the same moment than be injured or killed in that terrorist attack.

That doesn't mean I do not feel sorry for the victims.

mad pierrot
08-07-05, 17:01
(Just realistic.)

Still, emotions are irrational, and I get emotional sometimes.
This kind of violence really gets to me.



:sorry:

Elizabeth
08-07-05, 19:47
(Just realistic.)

Still, emotions are irrational, and I get emotional sometimes.
This kind of violence really gets to me.



:sorry:
Yeah, I am also very sensitive to violence but somehow I don't have a special attachment to Jref members I've never met as opposed to any other innocent victim. And not only in London of course, since bombings and terror like this happen with clockwork regularity....somewhere in the world nearly every day. :(

Pachipro
08-07-05, 20:16
Sometimes I wonder if these attacks are not organised by our dear leaders themselves. In the US it is clear that 9/11 helped Bush stay president when his victory at the elections was being investigated for cheating. Then it helped him become Commander in Chief (quite a lot of power) and attack Iraq (his ultimate goal, to continue his father's work). It again helped him get re-elected, helped him pass the Patriot Act to increase the government's power and reduce citizens' rights. Whatever angle you look at it, 9/11 was good for Bush and his pals. More power, stay longer in power. And who knows what will happen next ? A dictature ?

You know, I have wondered the same thing about 9/11. Maybe not that it was the gov itself that organized it but that perhaps they knew about it and let it happen. Some say Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor as well but let it through so that the USA could enter WW2. Could 9/11 have had such a similar function, to allow the gov support for its plans on reshaping the middle east?
I mean what about all those reports warning about suspected individuals going to flight schools and what not.... why were they discarded that way ? You make very valid points about Italy.... I'm not familiar with the politics in Japan so I can't agree or not but Italian politics sure are some of the most chaotic here in Europe.
I don't have the time now, but I'll post more on this at a later date. For now, does anyone remember the AP reporting and CNN and Fox news saying that the Isralie PM Netanyahoo(sp) was warned BEFORE the first explosion took place to stay in his hotel room and not venture outside? I heard it on the news reports and noticed it on the scrolls at the bottom of the scrren of these networks. Just something very curious that I took notice of right away.

mad pierrot
09-07-05, 02:25
And not only in London of course, since bombings and terror like this happen with clockwork regularity....somewhere in the world nearly every day.

Sucks, don't it?