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Maciamo
13-07-05, 07:50
BBC News : London bombers 'were all British' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676577.stm)


Detectives now believe the London bombings were carried out by four British-born men in what were possibly the country's first suicide attacks.
Security sources said it was likely at least three of the men, said to be of Pakistani descent, are dead, after belongings were found at the scenes.

The details emerged as explosives were found in Leeds and Luton after a series of raids. One man has been arrested.
...
The security correspondent said the suspected bombers - one of whom is thought to have been as young as 19 - may have been helped by someone who would have left the country before the bombs went off.
...
On Monday night, police had viewed CCTV footage of four suspects together at London King's Cross last Thursday.

They all had rucksacks and were seen just 20 minutes before the three Tube bombs started going off at 0851 BST. A bus bomb went off in Tavistock Square at 0947 BST.
...


I somehow doubt that Al-Qaeda was directly involved in this attack, as it looks like the work of amateurs who didn't really know where and why they attacking London.

The terrorists seem to have made the bombs by themselves with the help of an expert from outside. The fact that one of the bomb exploded near East Aldgate station, at the heart of the (Muslim) Bangladeshi district, shows that they didn't even know London well. Being from Leeds and probably from poor and uneducated immigrant families, they may never have lived or even stayed in London before.

They seem to have arrived by train to King's Cross Station then taken 3 different trains from there (the 3 lines meeting at King's Cross) and set the timer to explode just a few minutes from leaving King's Cross. This, IMO, shows that they were in a hurry not be to found and didn't mind where the bombs went off as long as it killed people.

Al-Qaeda would probably not have waited 4 years after 9/11 (or 3 years after the invasion of Iraq) to attack. I also beilieve that they would have rather attacked the US than the UK, mostly because 2 million people marched in the streets of London in protest against the invasion of Iraq. This was one of the world's biggest demonstration ever, and Londoners did it to oppose their leaders to invade a distant Muslim and Arabic country they have no reason to feel sympathetic about. Never has any Muslim country organised such large-scale demonstration to protest against the US invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan or whatever other reason. This makes Londoners the champions of the cause of Middle-Eastern countries, even more than the invaded people themselves. Therefore I seriously doubt that anybody understanding that would want to attack London.

IMO, those 4 British Pakistani came from deprived and uneducated families and didn't even understand what the G8 summit that day was about. Not globalisation or discussing the next invasion of developing countries, but on the contrary, helping poor countries by cancelling their debt, fighting the AIDS pandemic and finding a solution to global warming. Only people very ignorant of the world's affairs could have perpetrated these attacks. It doesn't sound like Al-Qaeda to me. Just wanna-be jihad heroes who couldn't adapt to life in Britain as South Asians in a industrial city hit by high unemployment and racial tensions (=> see Bradford riots in 2001 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2001/summer_of_violence/default.stm) involving Pakistani in Leeds' twin city).

Frank D. White
13-07-05, 13:57
they catch their controller who brainwashed them into ending their lives and others.

Frank

:okashii:

Elizabeth
13-07-05, 14:53
From the first reports of a bus attack which only left a handful of victims (and later speculation that one may have been a suicide bomber) the image was very inconsistant with international professionals like Al-qaeda. I'm sure they will track down the mastermind, catching depends on where they've fled I suppose....

bossel
13-07-05, 16:01
Bomb suspect's family 'shattered' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4679001.stm)


I doubt, that they necessarily were uneducated or from poor families, but they surely weren't trained very well to become suicide bombers.

Pachipro
13-07-05, 16:47
What bugs me since hearing that they were all suicide bombers is that in the initial reports they mentioned finding the remains of timing devices. Now, my question is why would a suicide bomber have a bomb with timing devices? as that would indicate that they had no intention of commtting suicide. Something just doesn't seem right here. Just an observation.

Maciamo
13-07-05, 17:05
What bugs me since hearing that they were all suicide bombers is that in the initial reports they mentioned finding the remains of timing devices. Now, my question is why would a suicide bomber have a bomb with timing devices? as that would indicate that they had no intention of commtting suicide. Something just doesn't seem right here. Just an observation.

Maybe so that all the bombs go off at the same time. Or justly because they make lack the courage or the opportunity in the crowd to detonate bombs manually. Or else because they didn't know much about bombs and the expert helping them set the timer for them, so that they would just have to carry the stuff.

Elizabeth
13-07-05, 18:44
Maybe so that all the bombs go off at the same time. Or justly because they make lack the courage or the opportunity in the crowd to detonate bombs manually. Or else because they didn't know much about bombs and the expert helping them set the timer for them, so that they would just have to carry the stuff.
They certainly didn't leave themselves much time if they had intended to try planting their rucksacks before escaping.

Miss_apollo7
13-07-05, 19:34
It is scary to think that it is the first time suicide bombers are in Europe in the context of terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists.

Denmark and Italy have been warned that they might be next. Today, the same group which took responsibility of the Madrid bombings has issued a warning to Denmark that if Denmark doesn't withdraw its troops from Iraq, Danes wouldn't be safe in their country.....

I agree with Maciamo that the four named suicide bombers from Leeds must be "empty brained" with no real future - they were too weak to stand against brain washers because their IQ was too low.
Sadly, there are many of such people, i.e., British citizens of Arabic or Islamic origin, who are deranged enough to fall for masterminds planning these kinds of attacks, with the hope of a better "afterlife" - getting plenty of virgins in heaven after blowing themselves up (along with many innocent people).


http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/08/news/alert.php

Maciamo
14-07-05, 03:37
They certainly didn't leave themselves much time if they had intended to try planting their rucksacks before escaping.

That is why I don't think they intended to escape. The bombs were set to explode within 2-3 minutes from the time they parted at King's Cross station. They had no time to reach the next station, so it was clearly intended as a suicide attack.

Dying for Islam as mujahedeen can be a glorious path to paradise for a fanatic Muslim. They may have been the kind of people to believe that they would have been greeted by virgins when reaching the Islamic heaven.

Maciamo
14-07-05, 03:41
I doubt, that they necessarily were uneducated or from poor families, but they surely weren't trained very well to become suicide bombers.

Here is more info (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4678837.stm) on them. One was 22 years old, another one 30 and previous sources said one was only 19.

I also find it ironical that a Pakistan train disaster kills 132 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4677595.stm) just days after those Pakistani bombed trains in London.

Duo
14-07-05, 04:12
That is why I don't think they intended to escape. The bombs were set to explode within 2-3 minutes from the time they parted at King's Cross station. They had no time to reach the next station, so it was clearly intended as a suicide attack.

Dying for Islam as mujahedeen can be a glorious path to paradise for a fanatic Muslim. They may have been the kind of people to believe that they would have been greeted by virgins when reaching the Islamic heaven.

Well, when you have a weak mind and no education and stupid animosity and radical preachers that hate the host nation but take advantage of it and are allowed to............ and in the words of Robin Williams on the subject....... any man that has been with a virgin right now is going uhhhh i donna about that........

Duo
14-07-05, 05:40
On a sidenote, France and Holland have decided not to accept entry with shengen visas anymore, if the story is true, this could mean that these people are in fact affecting and changing our way of life, no matter what our leaders say on tv

Duo
17-07-05, 23:26
On a sidenote, France and Holland have decided not to accept entry with shengen visas anymore, if the story is true, this could mean that these people are in fact affecting and changing our way of life, no matter what our leaders say on tv


edit:

sorry that was that they temporarily froze the agreement and have border cheks, not that they wouldn't accept shengen residents or shengen visa card holders....my mistake :sorry:

bossel
18-07-05, 02:50
It may not have been suicide attacks after all. I just read in the German news (quoting the Sunday Telegraph quoting Secret Service sources) that the 4 guys paid their parking tickets & bought return tickets for the trains they were riding on. They may have been lured into this. This would also explain the poor execution of these attacks.

smoke
18-07-05, 22:05
This would also explain the poor execution of these attacks.
How do you define a 'poor execution'?
55 people died and hundreds more injured.

As i see it they succeded in killing, they succeded in maiming, however they failed in terrorising.


Al-Qaeda would probably not have waited 4 years after 9/11 (or 3 years after the invasion of Iraq) to attack.
There have been 18 suspected Al-Qaeda attack between September 11th and London 7/7.

2001 (Sept.): Destruction of WTC; attack on Pentagon. Total dead 2,992.
2001 (Dec.): Man tried to denote shoe bomb on flight from Paris to Miami.
2002 (April): Explosion at historic synagogue in Tunisia left 21 dead, including 14 German tourists.
2002 (May): Car exploded outside hotel in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 14, including 11 French citizens.
2002 (June): Bomb exploded outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12.
2002 (Oct.): Boat crashed into oil tanker off Yemen coast, killing one.
2002 (Oct.): Nightclub bombings in Bali, Indonesia, killed 202, mostly Australian citizens.
2002 (Nov.): Suicide attack on a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, killed 16.
2003 (May): Suicide bombers killed 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
2003 (May): Four bombs killed 33 people targeting Jewish, Spanish, and Belgian sites in Casablanca, Morocco.
2003 (Aug.): Suicide car-bomb killed 12, injured 150 at Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia.
2003 (Nov.): Explosions rocked a Riyadh, Saudi Arabia housing compound, killing 17.
2003 (Nov.): Suicide car-bombers simultaneously attacked two synagogues in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 25 and injuring hundreds.
2003 (Nov.): Truck bombs detonated at London bank and British consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 26.
2004 (March): Ten terrorists bombs exploded almost simultaneously during the morning rush hour in Madrid, Spain, killing 202 and injuring more than 1,400.
2004 (May): Terrorists attacked Saudi oil company offices in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, killing 22.
2004 (June): Terrorists kidnapped and executed American Paul Johnson, Jr., in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
2004 (Sept.): Car bomb outside the Australian embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, killed nine.
2004 (Dec.): Terrorists enter the U.S. Consulate in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, killing nine (including 4 attackers).
2005 (July.): Bombs explode on three trains and a bus in London, England, killing 55.

Suicide bombers or not, dying in those blasts was too good for them.

bossel
19-07-05, 01:25
How do you define a 'poor execution'?
55 people died and hundreds more injured.
From a purely technical analysis, they could have caused a much greater carnage if they had acted differently. Eg. blowing yourself up in the back of a bus driving at a rather low speed has much less effect than doing the same in close vicinity to the driver while the bus is driving at -say- 50 km/h. Luckily for those in the bus, the bomber either wasn't aware of the bomb going off at that time or wasn't trained very well.

smoke
19-07-05, 14:06
From a purely technical analysis, they could have caused a much greater carnage if they had acted differently. Eg. blowing yourself up in the back of a bus driving at a rather low speed has much less effect than doing the same in close vicinity to the driver while the bus is driving at -say- 50 km/h. Luckily for those in the bus, the bomber either wasn't aware of the bomb going off at that time or wasn't trained very well.
The bus was surrounded by traffic and pedestrians (who had been evacuated from tube stations and where trying to get on a bus). The main reason that more didn't die was because the explosion happened outside of the British Medical Association where doctors were on hand to help the injured and prevent further fatalities.

Elizabeth
20-07-05, 03:42
Last I read there have been nearly 500 suicide bombings in Iraq from mid 2003-2005 (maybe 80 people dying a day), the majority of those also probably from foreign insurgents/terrorrists so whether the London bombings were the work of al-Qaeda also seems to me a little irrelevant. Britain is just as involved as the US in a war that is widely unpopular with Muslims everywhere.

bossel
20-07-05, 06:26
The main reason that more didn't die was because the explosion happened outside of the British Medical Association where doctors were on hand to help the injured and prevent further fatalities.
Another reason to suspect poor preparation & training, or lack of knowledge that the bomb was to go off at that time.

smoke
20-07-05, 14:40
so whether the London bombings were the work of al-Qaeda also seems to me a little irrelevant.
I agree completely.

bossel
03-08-05, 01:49
Did they? This article asks some good questions:
The "Magic Bomb" Theory (http://www.faulkingtruth.com/Articles/Commentary/1040.html)

Quote:
"Here we go again. Another terrorist event with more questions than answers, questions that the major media (yet again) aren't even asking.

Hell, I'll even take a stab at answering them:

The metal was pushed upwards because THE BOMB WAS UNDERNEATH THE TRAIN.

Lait didn't remember seeing anyone, or a bag that could be holding a bomb, near the point of detonation because there was no bomber sitting there, there was no bag. THE BOMB WAS UNDERNEATH THE TRAIN.

An Asian guy, a white guy, two old ladies, and a blond businesswoman......and two dancers. There was no Islamic radical, no Mideastern terrorist sitting in that carriage [here I would ask how you'd recognise a Mideastern terrorist from looking alone, but the rest of the article is not that bad]. THE BOMB WAS UNDERNEATH THE TRAIN.

Dance partners Bruce Lait and Crystal Main were nearest the bomb.....again, no Islamic radical, no Mideastern terrorist sitting in that carriage. THE BOMB WAS UNDERNEATH THE TRAIN. "


It's based on this article (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf) about a survivor of the attacks.

Since human memory is far from perfect, I don't know how serious this has to be taken, but it's interesting enough to post it.