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View Full Version : Could a country give unrequested citizenship to someone in order to control them ?



Maciamo
15-09-05, 13:00
Obtaining a country's nationality can be a lengthy and difficukt process. However, could a State decide to grant nationality to someone who has never requested it ? For example, Robert de Niro was given the (honorary) Italian citizenship, although I doubt that he ever asked for it.

What could be the problem ? Well, first of all, some countries do not recognise dual citizenship, so that would result in the automatic loss of the first nationality. Talk about a problem ! If that is legally possible, then the US could decide to grant US citizenship to all Japanese citizens, thus making them American and de facto annexing Japan, as all its citizens would be obliged to follow US laws and authorities.

That's already bad enough. Yet it could be worse. What if the country that grant citizenship does it to increase its military power, because the law says that all males must join the army ? What if that gives the right to the citizenship-granting state to extradite some citizens from any given country on basis that they are citizen of their country and should be handed over to them ?

I am pretty sure that most politicians have never thought about that. Theoretically, citizens in most countries have the right to give up their nationality. But in some cases the state can refuse it, I think. What if a country had/made a law stipulating that its citizens cannot abandon their nationality without the approval of the state, but the state has the right to give (or impose) citizenship on any individual (on its land). Wouldn't that be dangerous ?

nurizeko
15-09-05, 13:06
It would be scary but, if america did theoretically apply citizenship to all japanese, japan, and the rest of the world most likely, would give america the middle finger and tell them to [EXPLICIT CONTENT] themselves.

That would be my response if someone forced citizenship on me.


Its also interesting to note that if they are in their country of origin, preferred nationality, then how would the country imposing citizenship get them to comply?.

Also, i think ultimatly, a court would recognise the individuals unwilling and ignorance of this new found citizenship as a reason to decide in their favour, if not for the simple fact that at its bare roots, a person country of birth or where they have lived the vast majority of their life would be ruled as their rightful nationality.

Maciamo
15-09-05, 16:19
Its also interesting to note that if they are in their country of origin, preferred nationality, then how would the country imposing citizenship get them to comply?.

The US has extradition agreements with many other countries. If they want you and need you to be American to be extradited, then it could be quite simple to "impose" the US citizenship on you. The question is, do people need to agree to receive a nationality. I suppose so, otherwise the US (or other countries) would already have used this method.

This thread is also about the downside of accepting citizenship too easily. Be careful about what comes along with a country's nationality. For example, France still has compulsory military service for all its male citizens. If one refuses, they lose their voting rights and risk a fine or even emprisonment. Usually immigrants are quite unaware of these things when they decide to migrate to a particular country. Don't become American if you can't stand singing the US national anthem before the flag ! (it is it a prerequisite to become US citizen).

Duo
15-09-05, 22:23
An honorary citizenship to robert de niro and imposing citezenship to all japanese by america is a different thing. How could that even be done without violating japan's sovereignity ? How would America go about to enforce this new law? If they used violence then they are coercing and invading japan to take its citizens for their needs....

misa.j
16-09-05, 00:10
Don't become American if you can't stand singing the US national anthem before the flag ! (it is it a prerequisite to become US citizen).
No waaay! Are you serious? Who told you that?
I did not know that! I knew that I had to pledge under oath but not the singing part.
It still doesn't discourage me from becoming one eventually, though.

I agree with you about the downside of accepting and giving up a citizenship. There seem to be some countries where have lesser requirements and easier process to obtain, and you might get less benefits and more obligations by doing so.

Maciamo
16-09-05, 02:53
An honorary citizenship to robert de niro and imposing citezenship to all japanese by america is a different thing. How could that even be done without violating japan's sovereignity ? How would America go about to enforce this new law? If they used violence then they are coercing and invading japan to take its citizens for their needs....

Well, what if it is not the whole country, but just one person, or a particular group of people they want. We could imagine that they use this system to encourage people moving to the US. For example, they could decide to grant US citizenship to the top scientists in one country, in the hope that they would voluntarily move to the US. That is already what they do with their Green Card lottery in a way.

If they want a criminal, that makes even more sense. Do you remember the case of Bobby Fischer (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3900205.stm) who was arrested in Japan because the US had asked Japan to do it as he was a US citizen ? Eventually he managed to get the Iclandic citizenship and "escape" there, but otherwise Japan had to hand him "back" to the US (although he hadn't been there for over a decade and didn't care about his US citizenship).

Pilotnok
06-10-19, 02:56
WOW-While all of them may not be connected, would be/could be that a fair amount are.While out in Northwest, I saw several of these cases investigated over the years.Never a good thing for family and friends.Even when killer is found. Best wishes and thoughts.