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Brooker
06-11-05, 00:29
I donft like double standards. If something is true for one thing, it should be for all others as well. I like consistency. Itfs very common for people to have double standards when it comes to gender. For example, herefs a common double standard that bothers mec

Most women are either curious about fooling around with other women or have actually done so. Some women have even dated another woman and then return to having male partners. Most people wouldnft consider these women to be gay. gThey were just experimenting.h However if a guy were to do the same thing, everyone would consider him gay. Does there seem to be some inconsistency there?

If men and women are equal, and I believe they are, then why should such a double standard exist? People who perpetuate such double standards must realize that they are also perpetuating the idea that men and women arenft equal. The irony is that most of the people Ifve seen who perpetuate this double standard are women. I say, if women want to be treated equally, they need to start thinking of themselves as equals and hold everyone to the same standards.

I actually wouldnft mind if all of those gexperimentersh were called gay OR if they were all just considered experimenters. I just donft think it should be looked at differently depending on your gender.

mad pierrot
06-11-05, 15:41
One thing I really hate about double standards applies to negative actions.

I.E. "You don't like me because I'm a this or that, you racists/chauvanist."


:kaioken:

No, I don't like you because you're an *******, that's why!

:banghead:




Know what I mean?

Maciamo
06-11-05, 16:25
Brooker, I suppose that when you say that men and women are equal, you are referring to legal rights or something. I don't believe that men and women are equal when it comes to other things. Men and women think differently, feel differently, have different priorities, different metabolisms, even different values (e.g. women typically put more importance in personal relationships, sharing feelings and family ties).

Even in matter of intelligence, men and women aren't equal. We can't really say that one is better overall, but in average women are better at communication, empathising, language, verbal fluency, speed of articulation, grammar, and arithmetic. Men are better at geometry, map reading, orientation, vocabulary, logical reasoning, etc.

As for the "experimenting" part, I'd say that such people are bisexual, not gay. Statistically 90% of gays are men, but about 2/3 of bisexuals are women.

Brooker
07-11-05, 01:42
I'm not talking about legally equal. And I don't mean to say that men and women are the same. I say that when you add up the strengths and weaknesses that men and women have that it pretty much balances out. I think women can do a lot (maybe not all) of things that men can do, it's just that the expectations are different. Women aren't expected to be able to do certain things, so they don't try, while men might be encouraged to do such things.


Statistically 90% of gays are men, but about 2/3 of bisexuals are women.

That flawed statistic only proves my point. I don't think men or women are more likely to be gay. It's just that the "bisexual" men are catagorized as gay, while the bisexual women aren't.

Tsuyoiko
07-11-05, 12:59
Men and women think differently, feel differently, have different priorities, different metabolisms, even different values (e.g. women typically put more importance in personal relationships, sharing feelings and family ties).

Even in matter of intelligence, men and women aren't equal. We can't really say that one is better overall, but in average women are better at communication, empathising, language, verbal fluency, speed of articulation, grammar, and arithmetic. Men are better at geometry, map reading, orientation, vocabulary, logical reasoning, etc.Obviously these are generalisations. There are many men who are better at the typically female stuff and vice versa.
I think women can do a lot (maybe not all) of things that men can do, it's just that the expectations are different. Women aren't expected to be able to do certain things, so they don't try, while men might be encouraged to do such things.I agree with you on that Brooker. While I think Maciamo's right about the differences, I'm not sure it's clear why they are exist - whether it is due to inherent differences or conditioning. I have always been more 'male' in my thinking and abilities, and I think that's because my parents had no expectations about what I would be good at, and encouraged me no matter what I was interested in - whereas other parents might have bought me dolls instead of a Scalextric.

As for the sexuality thing, I would call the experimenters bisexual no matter whether they were male or female. I know a lot of people like this, and I've never thought any different about them just because of their gender.

cursore
07-11-05, 13:19
The problem lies in the level of testosterone the man hasc I mean if a man sees two women togheter he is most likely to get excited rather than offended.

in the other hand if a man or a woman sees two man togheter he or she is most likely to get offended or disturbed...

I don't know why...

Tsuyoiko
07-11-05, 14:11
in the other hand if a man or a woman sees two man togheter he or she is most likely to get offended or disturbed...You obviously haven't seen this thread 'boy on boy why is it sexy? (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14345)'

Elizabeth
07-11-05, 14:16
That flawed statistic only proves my point. I don't think men or women are more likely to be gay. It's just that the "bisexual" men are catagorized as gay, while the bisexual women aren't.
Although in terms of reported sexual behavior as opposed to identity or how you categorize these things, I think a higher percentage of women are actively bi-sexual than men and more fluid in their attraction to both men and women. It's been a while since I looked into it, but I'm not sure the numbers are all that different for self-reports of being gay, lesbian or bisexual.

Kinsao
07-11-05, 14:20
You obviously haven't seen this thread 'boy on boy why is it sexy? (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14345)'

Ah yes, but is the jref forum a representative sample of the population? :? :lol:

cursore
07-11-05, 14:42
Well, I know that many girls find gays a sort of cute, or the male friendship that cannot have with a straight guy.
but still many that do not like omosexuality, specially in countries were religion is really dep in society.

Brooker
07-11-05, 23:22
Although in terms of reported sexual behavior as opposed to identity or how you categorize these things, I think a higher percentage of women are actively bi-sexual than men and more fluid in their attraction to both men and women. It's been a while since I looked into it, but I'm not sure the numbers are all that different for self-reports of being gay, lesbian or bisexual.

Again, I believe men and women are equally predisposed to gayness. I don't have any proof to back that up, but it seems logical to me. I think these statistics might be flawed by a varying definition of gayness. What seems gay for a man might not seem gay for a woman. And men are much less likely to admit to being gay or bisexual.

Ma Cherie
08-11-05, 02:20
Yeah, I would think that it's a double standard, to say that if a man decides to experiment with dating other men. This has mostly to do with society though. Teaching young men that if you even have a very close relationship with man (espeically if it's just platonic) you're accused of being gay. I think men are less likely to admit having bisexual feelings. :?

Elizabeth
08-11-05, 03:07
Again, I believe men and women are equally predisposed to gayness. I don't have any proof to back that up, but it seems logical to me. I think these statistics might be flawed by a varying definition of gayness. What seems gay for a man might not seem gay for a woman. And men are much less likely to admit to being gay or bisexual.
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article1737.html

Here is a link to that study of arousal patterns I remember hearing about which shows heterosexual and lesbian women respond physiologically much more to both male and female erotica than gay or heterosexual men. If men are more visually wired and fixated on the physical attributes of their ideal partner it seems logical to me that they are also more targeted towards either men or women, not shifting back and forth as easily as women. Of course a lot of men also get married and start a family in denial of their gayness, although bisexuality doesn't preclude a strong preference for one or the other. Which is one reason I would rather focus on systematic and exact measurements. :blush:

Tsuyoiko
08-11-05, 11:49
Yeah, I would think that it's a double standard, to say that if a man decides to experiment with dating other men. This has mostly to do with society though. Teaching young men that if you even have a very close relationship with man (espeically if it's just platonic) you're accused of being gay. I think men are less likely to admit having bisexual feelings. :?I agree with you. Women can be close friends, kiss and hug each other in public, and even sleep in the same bed and no-one raises an eyebrow. But if two men as much as have lunch together, people think they are gay. :okashii:

Maciamo
08-11-05, 12:12
I agree with you. Women can be close friends, kiss and hug each other in public, and even sleep in the same bed and no-one raises an eyebrow. But if two men as much as have lunch together, people think they are gay. :okashii:

Yes, I totally agree with that. My wife is the first culprit. She does all the things mentioned above, but if I have the misfortune to spend to much time talking (or even writing an email if she is in the same room) to a male friend, then she calls me gay ! Of course, if I do the same with a female friend then she gets jealous. :D

Tsuyoiko
08-11-05, 13:06
Of course, if I do the same with a female friend then she gets jealous. :DBetter make sure she doesn't catch us fraternising then! :D My husband has the opposite opinion - he is offended if men don't flirt with me, as he thinks everyone should find me attractive! :D