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View Full Version : What the West does not owe to Islam OT about days of the week



Xkavar
03-11-05, 05:04
The West does not owe their names of the week to Islam. Those came from the Vikings. :D

Maciamo
03-11-05, 09:14
The West does not owe their names of the week to Islam. Those came from the Vikings. :D

First, I do not know why you suddenly start talking about that (did anybody mention it before ?). Then, the West does not equal "English". English days of the week come from Norse mytholody (except Saturday from the Roman god "Saturn"). But in all Latin languages, the names of the days come from Roman gods (e.g. mardi/martedi/martes in French/Italian/Spanish come from Mars, the god of war).

bossel
03-11-05, 13:58
English days of the week come from Norse mytholody (except Saturday from the Roman god "Saturn").
Better call the source Germanic mythology, Norse mythology is just the Scandinavian branch thereof. Eg. Wednesday is named after Woden. Woden being the Old Saxon version of Old Norse Oðinn.

Day Origin
Monday Moon's day
Tuesday Tyr's (Tiw's) day
Wednesday Odin's (Woden's) day
Thursday Thor's day
Friday Frigg's or Freya's day
Sunday Sun's day


Regarding "owing to Islam," I think, we should give credit where credit is due. Whether we really owe it to Islam, or not, is a matter of definition. Eg. Arabic numerals came to us through contact with Arabs, they have played a crucial rule in bringing the stuff to Europe. Why not honour them in one way or another? Doesn't really matter, but why not? As long as history tells us what exactly went on, I don't have a problem with that.

nurizeko
05-11-05, 10:59
So what does the West owe to Islam ? I wonder...

A global climate of fear and a general weaker global stability.



The West does not owe their names of the week to Islam. Those came from the Vikings.

Actually they came from celtic gods and goddess' but, close enough, the vikings were the decendants of the germanic tribal peoples who remained in scandinavia and developed down their own path as the germanic peoples expanded and assimilated into the cultures of the lands they took, and as for germania, eventually adopted a romanised culture where previously their wasnt one.
Im sure some of the days of the week come from roman gods, or other sources, but many are of celtic/pagan origin.

Ah, i see bossel covered it nicely.


Islam played the role of middle-man in history for all the great centres of civilization, it did lead to a religiously and culturally linked streach of civilization which enabled india, china, and europe to share, if only barely, infomation and inventions and new philosophies and what-not.

And i guess in a way we can be thankful the european rivalry with the muslim powers eventually enabled europe to surpass all before them and become the dominant centre of civilization for quite a while, its still arguably fairly important centre of civilization today.

America had a good go at stealing the limelight, and china is next up to contend, europe has the honour of arguably enabling the comming of the world today as we know it, but give the muslim world its due, it did its part.

Did it make europe what it is?...no, but without that rivalry, we might still be fighting with legions and kataphractoi.

Maciamo
05-11-05, 13:18
Actually they came from celtic gods and goddess' but, close enough, the vikings were the decendants of the germanic tribal peoples who remained in scandinavia and developed down their own path as the germanic peoples expanded and assimilated into the cultures of the lands they took, and as for germania, eventually adopted a romanised culture where previously their wasnt one.
Im sure some of the days of the week come from roman gods, or other sources, but many are of celtic/pagan origin.

I don't know where you found Celtic origins in Thor, Odin, Tiw or Frigga. They are all Germanic gods. Btw, "pagan" refers to Germanic, Celtic, Greek, Roman or other gods (probably Hindu, as the roots of all these religions are the same). English language and culture owes very little to the Celts, for the only good reasons that the Anglo-Saxons were purely Germanic, and killed or pushed the indigenous Celts to Wales and Cornwall when they arrived to Britain. The other liguistico-cultural root of English is French.

nurizeko
05-11-05, 15:23
Actually Mac, recent studies on genetic samples from britons all over showed that the genetic integrity of the british population has remained fairly stable since the first ice-age settlers.

I.E. despite the success waves of invaders, they've never been too many to displace the local people and while the country has adopted their cultural and linguistic traits, genetically, britons are genetically similar to the first inhabitants.


Though your probably right about the norse names.


Wgat about wednesday?, im pretty sure i read or watched something about at least one day being named after a celtic thingey, though im probably wrong.

bossel
06-11-05, 03:34
Actually Mac, recent studies on genetic samples from britons all over showed that the genetic integrity of the british population has remained fairly stable since the first ice-age settlers.

I.E. despite the success waves of invaders, they've never been too many to displace the local people and while the country has adopted their cultural and linguistic traits, genetically, britons are genetically similar to the first inhabitants.
If I'm not mistaken you can find other studies of British genes which state pretty much the contrary. It's probably a matter of which genes you look at, where you look & who's actually doing the looking.

Maciamo
06-11-05, 03:39
What about wednesday?, im pretty sure i read or watched something about at least one day being named after a celtic thingey, though im probably wrong.

Rather than ask me, if you don't believe what I and Bossel have said, you could check on the web, e.g. here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wednesday).

nurizeko
07-11-05, 10:10
Its not a case of not believing, merely a case if wondering and wanting to know, i hope you havnt seen my questions as counter to your opinion, im merely an interested inidividual wanting to know the origins of the names for all the days :), they can be zulu for all i care, just interested thats all.


That might just be bossel, regarding the genetics of the british people, but then, thats basicly saying "hey Mr scientists who have done this recent study and are well respected, your findings are completely wrong."

I know, for example, germanic tribes spread quite far throughout europe and even north africa durring and after the collapse of the roman empire, but it isnt unreasonable to expect even they cant push out and genetically assimilate a whole peoples.
The study showed that despite the angles and saxons and jutes comming to britain they merely conquered the locals rather then pushing them out or massacring them, and the study showed that they never arrived in large enough numbers that when they started mixing with the local people, their genes didnt over-power the british genepool, hence, the study came to my rather basic understanding of the conclusion that the genetic integrity of the british people remained fairly stable and what-not.


What EXACTLY that means is for someone else to take up, im not a geneticist.


Anyhow back on topic of islam.

Uh....well, im sure somebody else knows what else islams did for the world.

bossel
07-11-05, 11:58
That might just be bossel, regarding the genetics of the british people, but then, thats basicly saying "hey Mr scientists who have done this recent study and are well respected, your findings are completely wrong."
Actually, I found the source for your "recent studies": The Tribes of Britain by archaeologist David Miles (archaeologist, not geneticist). It seems he argues more for Wales & Scotland (judging from his red hair argument).
Most definitely I trust more the analysis of Cavalli-Sforza who found (http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,926038,00.html) that "Central England and Friesland Y-chromosomes were indistinguishable and distinct from their Welsh counterparts. The genetic data supports the invasion hypothesis with either elimination or displacement of the native Celts from central England."


The study showed that despite the angles and saxons and jutes comming to britain they merely conquered the locals rather then pushing them out or massacring them, and the study showed that they never arrived in large enough numbers that when they started mixing with the local people
If it's not the book I mentioned above, what's your source? Massacring is pretty much out of the question anyway. Reasonable explanations I have heard are pushing them to far corners of the isles &/or taking the women (which means wiping out male hereditary lines).

Xkavar
22-11-05, 01:18
Ladies and gentlemen, I sincerely apologize for making this thread without a source link. I can't find it, so this may help your arguements:

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2005/tc20050329_3316.htm

Jagger
12-09-07, 10:18
The West does not owe their names of the week to Islam. Those came from the Vikings. :D
Is that meant to be sarcastic?



Ladies and gentlemen, I sincerely apologize for making this thread without a source link. I can't find it, so this may help your arguements:

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2005/tc20050329_3316.htm
That chick looks like cute. :blush: