After a frustrating week- I was just wondering about the kind of people we have in this community. Religions, philosophies, creedos, lifestyles, aliens, and conspiracy theories are all welcome. What do you believe? What makes it work for you? How did you come to believe what you believe? Expose your thinking- get transparent. C'mon, let's get naked and have some fun.
What do you believe? And Why?
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Tsuyoiko
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Believe me, the way I have pigged out this Christmas that is not a happy prospect!sabro said:
There's bits of what I believe scattered all over this forum.
Religion: I am a recently 'converted' atheist, thanks in large part to discussions with Maciamo. I think a superior, supernatural being is unnecessary, so I assume it doesn't exist.
Politics: Approximately, I am a socialist. I believe "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". I abhor commercialism and don't understand greed.
Personal philosophy: Do as you will but harm none. (I used to be a Pagan and I kept that bit!)
My religious beliefs have only just crystallised. I was a Christian until I was about 12, when a lot of stuff started to seem suspicious to me. I continued to believe in pretty much the Christian god until I studied Philosophy at university. That led me into a lot of areas - science, history, logic etc. My affinity for Nature, and visits to Glastonbury attracted me to Paganism, which I toyed with until a few months ago. Mainly from discussions on this forum I have realised I can respect Nature without having to endow it with a consciousness.
My politics have always been with me as I grew up with activist parents - they took me on trades union, CND and animal rights marches and fundraisers when I was a little kid.
As for my personal philosophy, I like to think I do what I want (more or less) without hurting anyone else. For some people that wouldn't be enough, as they would think you have to actively help people to live a good life. I leave that to the people who are good at that sort of thing, which I'm not! Whenever I feel that I'm not good enough, I just think of someone who is worse than me.
For religion, you can start checking these two polls to get an idea of the trend in beliefs on the forum :
- In what God(s) do you believe ? (describe how is the god in which one believes, or why we don't believe in it)
- What's your religion ? (explicit)
As for me. I am an Atheist, but also have my own elaborate philosophy and morals. In short (note that when I say "believe" it means that it cannot be physically demonstarted, only by logical reasoning) :
- Metaphysics : I believe in an eternal and infinite Universe (or Nature), made of matter and energy (no supernatural properties, as anything that exists, even ghost/souls if they do, is basically energy). My definition of Universe is "everything that exists", so it is logically infinite, as anything existing "beyond the limit" is included in it. It is eternal because it is logically impossible for existence to spring up out of nothing, or cease to exist. This could only happen if there was a Higher Power (e.g. God) outside the Universe. But as by definition the Universe is everything that exists, God is also part of it, otherwise it wouldn't exist. So even the "other dimension" where the hypotetical god would be, is one part of the Universe (the Whole). We could also conceive that all that exist (the Universe) is God (i.e. Pantheism), but why call it differently, and not just the Universe or Nature then ?
- Soul : Neuropsychologists have now demonstrated by experiments that the soul did not exist, simply because all our toughts, memory, emotions, sense of existence, etc. are located in various parts of the brain, and that without a specific part of the brain, each of them cease to exist. For instance, the case of patients with a brain tumor, that had the frontal lobe of the brain removed, has shown that the patients could not feel any emotion (joy, anger, fear...) anymore, while they could still speak, hear, understand, calculate, reason, imagine or walk normally. There is thus nothing that the soul would contain (not even conscience or the "feeling of oneself"), as everything has been shown to be in the brain.
- God : I reject the very concept of god for several reasons, explained in various threads in this subforum. In short, a personal god (i.e. with human emotions, a gender, feelings such as love, anger, compassion...) cannot exist because emotions and feelings require a material brain to exist. An immaterial god could not have created the "existence" without creating itself, which is impossible, out of nothing. With an eternal Universe (i.e. that has always existed), God could only exist as being all the Universe of part of it. Part of it doesn't make much sense, and all of it equals calling it the Universe itself.
- Afterlife : One of religion's strongest attraction is its belief in the afterlife, usually a better one called "heaven" or "paradise". Because I reject the concept of soul and god, I do not believe in "heaven", "hell" or whatever. But I do believe in a material afterlife. How is that possible ? Very easy, we are part of an eternal Universe, and are made of energy and matter that compose it. This energy and matter are also eternal, and when we "die", as humans, this energy only changes forms - but we are still there, forever ! Given eternity, there is an infinite number of chances that this energy will form again other life beings. We won't be aware of the continuity, and that it as well. Once we are dead, we won't be conscious of being dead. So, it doesn't matter whether it takes 1000 years or quintillions of years before the energy that makes our inner brain (the center of consciousness) forms again into another life being. It will happen, sooner or later, and for us it doesn't make any difference when, as we won't notice the time pass being dead. The good thing with the eternity of the Universe (i.e. of all existence), is that we will have an infinite number of lives, in an infinite number of forms, on an infinite number of planets...
- Morals : This is much longer to explain, given all the possible cases of situations. Basically, I dislike lies, hypocrisy, dishonesty, cheating or stealing more than most people do (more than conservative Christians :blush
. There is no such thing as a "good lie" (e.g. to avoid shocking someone) to me. There are always alternatives, such as not saying anything, or say it in a diverted or "softened" way. Lies can only be used to protect oneself in dangerous situations, and in force majeure (e.g. to save your life when threatened). This is partly because of this strong moral feeling toward lies that I am so outspoken and cannot understand how people manage to live happily while deceiving themselves.
My "public moral' is to always seek to improve society and humanity, by improving any government or system, or seeking more knowledge that can benefit humanity and life in general, be it in sciences, arts, technology, philosophy or society. This determines my political attitude, more than any fixed orientation. I am naturally more of a reformist, and more on the liberal side, but not always or at all cost. There is no point changing what already works, when we could concentrate on the problems (I can't believe that any system ever be perfect).
- In what God(s) do you believe ? (describe how is the god in which one believes, or why we don't believe in it)
- What's your religion ? (explicit)
As for me. I am an Atheist, but also have my own elaborate philosophy and morals. In short (note that when I say "believe" it means that it cannot be physically demonstarted, only by logical reasoning) :
- Metaphysics : I believe in an eternal and infinite Universe (or Nature), made of matter and energy (no supernatural properties, as anything that exists, even ghost/souls if they do, is basically energy). My definition of Universe is "everything that exists", so it is logically infinite, as anything existing "beyond the limit" is included in it. It is eternal because it is logically impossible for existence to spring up out of nothing, or cease to exist. This could only happen if there was a Higher Power (e.g. God) outside the Universe. But as by definition the Universe is everything that exists, God is also part of it, otherwise it wouldn't exist. So even the "other dimension" where the hypotetical god would be, is one part of the Universe (the Whole). We could also conceive that all that exist (the Universe) is God (i.e. Pantheism), but why call it differently, and not just the Universe or Nature then ?
- Soul : Neuropsychologists have now demonstrated by experiments that the soul did not exist, simply because all our toughts, memory, emotions, sense of existence, etc. are located in various parts of the brain, and that without a specific part of the brain, each of them cease to exist. For instance, the case of patients with a brain tumor, that had the frontal lobe of the brain removed, has shown that the patients could not feel any emotion (joy, anger, fear...) anymore, while they could still speak, hear, understand, calculate, reason, imagine or walk normally. There is thus nothing that the soul would contain (not even conscience or the "feeling of oneself"), as everything has been shown to be in the brain.
- God : I reject the very concept of god for several reasons, explained in various threads in this subforum. In short, a personal god (i.e. with human emotions, a gender, feelings such as love, anger, compassion...) cannot exist because emotions and feelings require a material brain to exist. An immaterial god could not have created the "existence" without creating itself, which is impossible, out of nothing. With an eternal Universe (i.e. that has always existed), God could only exist as being all the Universe of part of it. Part of it doesn't make much sense, and all of it equals calling it the Universe itself.
- Afterlife : One of religion's strongest attraction is its belief in the afterlife, usually a better one called "heaven" or "paradise". Because I reject the concept of soul and god, I do not believe in "heaven", "hell" or whatever. But I do believe in a material afterlife. How is that possible ? Very easy, we are part of an eternal Universe, and are made of energy and matter that compose it. This energy and matter are also eternal, and when we "die", as humans, this energy only changes forms - but we are still there, forever ! Given eternity, there is an infinite number of chances that this energy will form again other life beings. We won't be aware of the continuity, and that it as well. Once we are dead, we won't be conscious of being dead. So, it doesn't matter whether it takes 1000 years or quintillions of years before the energy that makes our inner brain (the center of consciousness) forms again into another life being. It will happen, sooner or later, and for us it doesn't make any difference when, as we won't notice the time pass being dead. The good thing with the eternity of the Universe (i.e. of all existence), is that we will have an infinite number of lives, in an infinite number of forms, on an infinite number of planets...
- Morals : This is much longer to explain, given all the possible cases of situations. Basically, I dislike lies, hypocrisy, dishonesty, cheating or stealing more than most people do (more than conservative Christians :blush
. There is no such thing as a "good lie" (e.g. to avoid shocking someone) to me. There are always alternatives, such as not saying anything, or say it in a diverted or "softened" way. Lies can only be used to protect oneself in dangerous situations, and in force majeure (e.g. to save your life when threatened). This is partly because of this strong moral feeling toward lies that I am so outspoken and cannot understand how people manage to live happily while deceiving themselves.My "public moral' is to always seek to improve society and humanity, by improving any government or system, or seeking more knowledge that can benefit humanity and life in general, be it in sciences, arts, technology, philosophy or society. This determines my political attitude, more than any fixed orientation. I am naturally more of a reformist, and more on the liberal side, but not always or at all cost. There is no point changing what already works, when we could concentrate on the problems (I can't believe that any system ever be perfect).
Clawn
The Wise Idiot
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Religion - Although it doesn't take a forefront in my life, I am a Christian.
Philosophies - Without death, there would be no life. There is no small role, only small actors. Although you are what you believe you are, that doesn't mean others have to believe it. The deepest most painful wounds lie not on the body, but in the mind. Evil is only a point of view.
Creed thingy - I believe that there is no good or evil in this world. I believe that pain and suffering happens, and although it may seem evil to us, it is all a part of being alive.
I also believe that I can do anything I want to, but that doesn't mean I have to. I try to help people instead of spreading anger and hurt, as many others do, and those lead to pointless suffering. That is something I must object with.
Lifestyles - I sleep, eat, bathe (sometimes regularly), learn, socialize (mostly with my books ^_^), have fun, help people, work to push myself forward in life, and feed my cats.
CONSPIRACY THEORIES - You are all a figment of my imagination. There really is a spoon, if you squint hard enough.
The man who is insane is deemed so by his peers, for he percieves himself to be normal. The wise man knows he is insane by being able to pericieve his insanity and the knowledge that he knows is beyond his peers' level of conception.
Philosophies - Without death, there would be no life. There is no small role, only small actors. Although you are what you believe you are, that doesn't mean others have to believe it. The deepest most painful wounds lie not on the body, but in the mind. Evil is only a point of view.
Creed thingy - I believe that there is no good or evil in this world. I believe that pain and suffering happens, and although it may seem evil to us, it is all a part of being alive.
I also believe that I can do anything I want to, but that doesn't mean I have to. I try to help people instead of spreading anger and hurt, as many others do, and those lead to pointless suffering. That is something I must object with.
Lifestyles - I sleep, eat, bathe (sometimes regularly), learn, socialize (mostly with my books ^_^), have fun, help people, work to push myself forward in life, and feed my cats.
CONSPIRACY THEORIES - You are all a figment of my imagination. There really is a spoon, if you squint hard enough.
The man who is insane is deemed so by his peers, for he percieves himself to be normal. The wise man knows he is insane by being able to pericieve his insanity and the knowledge that he knows is beyond his peers' level of conception.
RockLee
???l
I don't believe in a god or higher being.I believe you have either a positive or negative influence on your surroundings, so in a way you are responsible for your living conditions by the positive or negative influences.
You make your own destiny, nobody will do it for you.
If you want something, work for it and do it with a positive attitude.
You make your own destiny, nobody will do it for you.
If you want something, work for it and do it with a positive attitude.
Chocolate is good for you.
Life is terminal. The death rate is 100%
Any kid with talent, brains, character and a good work ethic can become president someday.
I believe in the soul and spirit and in miracles.
Political: Left.
Religion: I don't like religions, but I have a personal relationship with the living God.
I don't believe most conspiracy theories.
You can own a fish or a dog, but not a cat. The cat owns you. Your dog thinks you are a god. You cat knows that he or she is god.
"Shikata ga nai" and "gammen" will get you more and farther than "monku monku monku."
Education is the key to success.
Life is terminal. The death rate is 100%
Any kid with talent, brains, character and a good work ethic can become president someday.
I believe in the soul and spirit and in miracles.
Political: Left.
Religion: I don't like religions, but I have a personal relationship with the living God.
I don't believe most conspiracy theories.
You can own a fish or a dog, but not a cat. The cat owns you. Your dog thinks you are a god. You cat knows that he or she is god.
"Shikata ga nai" and "gammen" will get you more and farther than "monku monku monku."
Education is the key to success.
Ma Cherie
Your Goddess is here
Religion: I don't believe in organized religion, this changed when I turned 13 years old. And I rejected most religions. However, I do believe in higher power. I believe there is a being who is more superior than mandkind. I guess I could identify myself as being a deist, because human being were created to think and act for themselves. And I believe that mankind can decide for itself to decide what's right and wrong. Some religious people can turn to the Bible, Quran, and Toran to tell them what's right and wrong. But at some in time people are going to have to realize that we cannot turn to religion to tell us what's right and wrong, what's moral and immoral, etc. This is just the way I feel. :bluush:
I'll write more later.
I'll write more later.
Revenant
No Longer a Member
Religion - I enjoy reading about religious histories and theologies, but I am not religious myself. I am not so interested in thrashing any particular religion, but more in finding the common threads, and the common truths of the major religions. I am most interested in Buddhism at this moment.
God - I don't know if a God exists, but if He does, I believe He would be far more understanding than the one depicted by most Theists. In some ways, God or gods seem to be avatars for people's feelings of peace, warmth, awe, and wonder. All in all, I think that if there were a God, just as I can understand why people wouldn't understand the idea of an eternal God, so would He understand that as well. It therefore seems irrelevant to me, and if He wanted my attention, I'm sure He would let me know.
Afterlife - Neuroscience might argue against an eternal unchanging soul, but all in all, I think it is unnecessary to think about the afterlife. I attempt to live this moment, the only moment I have any power over to it's maximum.
Morals - I am all for virtue ethics. All I would wish is to increase compassion, tolerance, patience, serenity, gratitude, and perhaps humility. I see less and less the need to get upset or angry if someone is dishonest, angry, hypocrisy, etc (I do lose my temper every once in a while), and I think that it is better to simply row one's own boat, and not worrying about how another is rowing theirs.
God - I don't know if a God exists, but if He does, I believe He would be far more understanding than the one depicted by most Theists. In some ways, God or gods seem to be avatars for people's feelings of peace, warmth, awe, and wonder. All in all, I think that if there were a God, just as I can understand why people wouldn't understand the idea of an eternal God, so would He understand that as well. It therefore seems irrelevant to me, and if He wanted my attention, I'm sure He would let me know.
Afterlife - Neuroscience might argue against an eternal unchanging soul, but all in all, I think it is unnecessary to think about the afterlife. I attempt to live this moment, the only moment I have any power over to it's maximum.
Morals - I am all for virtue ethics. All I would wish is to increase compassion, tolerance, patience, serenity, gratitude, and perhaps humility. I see less and less the need to get upset or angry if someone is dishonest, angry, hypocrisy, etc (I do lose my temper every once in a while), and I think that it is better to simply row one's own boat, and not worrying about how another is rowing theirs.
sabro said:
Why should it matter. What composes our body will stay forever in the Universe, which is in perpetual momentum, and thus things that have happened will happen again.
What about the money and political connections ?
By "I don't like religions", do you mean "except (Baptist) Christianity" ?
Except if you make it clear to your cat and he/she becomes completely dependent and obedient to you. (for that, you first need to speak "felinian", the language of cats
)Then why are there so many unemployed people with a Masters or PhD (in Europe at least), and many uneducated people who become sucessful business people or politicians ? Education without personality (perserverance, ambition, charisma...), and according to some sociologist "hormones" for positions of power (e.g. "the dominant male"), cannot guarantee sucess.
Revenant
No Longer a Member
Religion implies a kind of blind faith, and as Sabro sees it, God is real, God is a fact, and therefore Christianity doesn't fall under the heading of religion.Maciamo said:
But that's a very corrupted definition of religion, if that it what he means. :silly: Christianity not a religion ? Haha, we learn new things everyday, don't we ?Revenant said:
Tsuyoiko said:
Well, well, well... Even if it is not technically a "brain" (e.g. a supercomputer could simulate emotions...), it still requires to be material and limited, and thus contradicting the idea of omniscience, or immateriality, and of course making it also impossible for such a god to have created the universe, or to be immortal or supernatural...
I believe: I am not a baptist. (I don't know how many times I have to say this.)
School is not the only source of education. Often it is not even the best source. (Which is why so many PhD's are unemployed.)
If you guys don't like organized religion, you should come to my church on Sunday. I don't think you can mistake it for organized.
I believe imagination is more important than intelligence, character more important than achievement, and the journey more important than the destination.
If you buy mutual funds- or bond funds- don't get the "B" stuff.
If you can get a job doing what you love, you will never "work" another day for the rest of your life.
School is not the only source of education. Often it is not even the best source. (Which is why so many PhD's are unemployed.)
If you guys don't like organized religion, you should come to my church on Sunday. I don't think you can mistake it for organized.
I believe imagination is more important than intelligence, character more important than achievement, and the journey more important than the destination.
If you buy mutual funds- or bond funds- don't get the "B" stuff.
If you can get a job doing what you love, you will never "work" another day for the rest of your life.
Tsuyoiko
DON'T PANIC!
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I have started another thread.Maciamo said:
Have you read The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho?sabro said:
Tsuyoiko
DON'T PANIC!
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I didn't mention something else that I believe that is important to me. I only believe in what can be proven (just for you Revenant). So I might speculate about the possibility of things that aren't proven, but I won't subscribe to them until they are. And by proven I mean proven by scientific method or logical reasoning.
Revenant
No Longer a Member
You must have a reason for directing that post at me.
It however goes over my head.
It however goes over my head.
strongvoicesforward
I'm back.
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Revenant said:
I'm not either. Embarrasment and exposure as fraud are uncomfortable mental states to be in -- besides dillusion.
Your reply still doesn`t explain why Xtians don`t go out of their way to set up more public debates with atheists. Take me out of the equation. It is just a general fact, Xtians won`t go out of their way to be put in a public forum with equal time granted to both parties and no special status granted to either.
In part, we are seeing a microcosm of that here on the forum with "someone" wanting special protection granted to his topic of interest.
Mycernius
The Hairy Wookie
Religion: Well if you don't know now I will say. I am an atheist and do not like most religions, as I find most of them like to control their believers with a variety of methods. If I was religious I would most likely be an atheistic Buddhist. As for God, a figment of mans highly charged imagination
Politics: To the right. Voted conservative all my life (Allbow down to Herr Thatcher), but did go through a phase of being a communist when I was 15. I then saw it as a completly unworkable idea, as human nature will not stand for it. The reason I prefer the right. I was born in 1970 and new what a union and strikes were by the time I was nine because of the militant left wingers.
Morals: Do not believe in good or evil. They are merely how morals of the times percieve things. Huamn sacrifice wasn't evil to the Aztecs, slavery wasn't evil to the Romans. No doubt in 100 years time what we see as good could be seen as questionable.
Overall I can be an over opinionated jerk if I so wish. I go through life fairly unstressed and try to keep calm, but can get very angry sometimes and then have a tendency to break things. I can also brood over bad things for years if need be. I can hold a grudge (Sadako anyone. I got a video for you )
Politics: To the right. Voted conservative all my life (Allbow down to Herr Thatcher), but did go through a phase of being a communist when I was 15. I then saw it as a completly unworkable idea, as human nature will not stand for it. The reason I prefer the right. I was born in 1970 and new what a union and strikes were by the time I was nine because of the militant left wingers.
Morals: Do not believe in good or evil. They are merely how morals of the times percieve things. Huamn sacrifice wasn't evil to the Aztecs, slavery wasn't evil to the Romans. No doubt in 100 years time what we see as good could be seen as questionable.
Overall I can be an over opinionated jerk if I so wish. I go through life fairly unstressed and try to keep calm, but can get very angry sometimes and then have a tendency to break things. I can also brood over bad things for years if need be. I can hold a grudge (Sadako anyone. I got a video for you
)I know your not. You have mentioned on more than one thread that you are evangelical. Try reading threads, peoplesabro said:
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