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sandoro
18-01-06, 06:36
i would say that we are all brainwashed consciously or not.
noone know them self fully.
we are all influenced by many forces or energy, so whatever we think we are taling about thinking about is a fruit of external influences.
any thought on that?

No-name
18-01-06, 07:30
You wash the thing and a week later it is dirty all over again.

I'm not sure I know what you mean. I guess as a father of two teens, I wish I could brainwash my kids into doing something productive. Half the time I can't get the little one to even bathe without being asked.

I'm an educator- in the broadest sense, the assistant chief brainwasher in our system.

But I think it implies an intent and sense of control that we don't posess.

sandoro
18-01-06, 07:37
You wash the thing and a week later it is dirty all over again.
I'm not sure I know what you mean. I guess as a father of two teens, I wish I could brainwash my kids into doing something productive. Half the time I can't get the little one to even bathe without being asked.
I'm an educator- in the broadest sense, the assistant chief brainwasher in our system.
But I think it implies an intent and sense of control that we don't posess.
what i mean is that it does not matter how much we try to influence or brainwash others, (in this case your children) we eventually we are reinfluenced by others.
so when we think we are ready to make our own decisions is never our own, it is a mixture of the society thoughts.
btw how old are your children?
i have 1 of 3 years old, so it is just the beginning for me to brainwash him in the way i think i have been brainwashed in the way i can brainwash him, man what a messy vicious circle!!

Tsuyoiko
18-01-06, 12:51
It's only brainwashing if it's coercive. Of course, we are influenced by everything we see and hear, but I think calling that brainwashing is going a bit too far for the most part. I think some advertising comes close to brainwashing. And I think there are a lot of influences out there that are negative without having to resort to brainwashing - such as appealing to people's greed.

No-name
18-01-06, 18:01
My kids are 17 and 13. They are great kids but obviously inadequately brain washed. The older one is going to college next year. He won't clean up after himself in the kitchen, but he is doing his own laundry now. The younger is in the habit of breaking expensive things and falling behind in schoolwork. They go to Karate when they are done with schoolwork which is rare these days, but they are definitely coerced. They are not coerced to go to Church, but the never miss. The older one drives himself and helps with media/powerpoint and the younger one has youth group three times a week.

sandoro
20-01-06, 07:05
here is an example, they go to church becuase they have been told to go, not because they really beileve that, i used to go long long time ago, but other influences took over the old one, not that going to church is wrong or right, just saying that, we don't really know why we do what we are doing really!!

Sensuikan San
20-01-06, 07:10
... of course ....!

ジョン

No-name
20-01-06, 07:43
I never went to church as a kid... at least after age 6... and asside from getting good grades and staying out of trouble I don't know what else I have to wash through my brain. Perhaps we are brainwashed so well by TV and sitcoms, ads and pop music that we don't even know that we are consumer zombies-- capitalists controlled drones clocking in and out, spending and buying...more and more, never satisfied, never happy, never too mad...keeping the cogs of the big machine going.

mad pierrot
20-01-06, 08:37
I try to wash my brain with alcohol at least once or twice a week.

sandoro
20-01-06, 09:03
... of course ....!
ジョン

what does you make then?

sandoro
20-01-06, 09:06
I never went to church as a kid... at least after age 6... and asside from getting good grades and staying out of trouble I don't know what else I have to wash through my brain. Perhaps we are brainwashed so well by TV and sitcoms, ads and pop music that we don't even know that we are consumer zombies-- capitalists controlled drones clocking in and out, spending and buying...more and more, never satisfied, never happy, never too mad...keeping the cogs of the big machine going.

yeah man!
you finally got it.
but the problem is we can't do nothing about, it is a vicious circle.
maybe after death, but none knows what happen, after, so let's spend the remaining time on this planet, been brainwashed, and see.

sandoro
20-01-06, 09:07
I try to wash my brain with alcohol at least once or twice a week.


sorry but i am very cynic about that,
maybe are just my experiences that blinded me.

mad pierrot
20-01-06, 11:55
sorry but i am very cynic about that,
maybe are just my experiences that blinded me.

Heh, just joking around, amigo! Actually, as much as I love a drop or two, I think alcoholism is a major issue for many gaijin I know here. Maybe it's just because of all the social pressure to drink here.

Pachipro
20-01-06, 20:59
are we all brainwashed?


what i mean is that it does not matter how much we try to influence or brainwash others, (in this case your children) we eventually we are reinfluenced by others.
so when we think we are ready to make our own decisions is never our own, it is a mixture of the society thoughts.
Yes we most definitely are brainwashed sandoro. From the time we are born, from TV and books, from our parents, our friends, our teachers, our schools, our universities, our bosses at work, we are all brainwashed to one extent or another and is based on a few elitists concepts on how to control society and form a One World Government and has been in the works for many years now and may even be culminating here in the early 21st century.

Don't believe me? The brainwashing you talk about goes back to the late 15th Century and probably earlier. A few examples from history:

- In 1690 John Locke wrote "Concerning Human Understanding." (http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/locke/locke1/Essay_contents.html) One of the critical elements of the essay is the belief in the concept that children are tabula rasa, in other words, totally programmable. The idea was immediately taken up by the upper class in Europe and in the United States. It would become a cognitive foundation for the idea of "the emergence of a strong state," in terms of "programming an analytical systems substructure" - the substructure being the children who, under this paradigm, are entities to be possessed and controlled. This paradigm still exists today.

- In 1770 Emile (http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/introser/rousseau.htm) is written by Rousseau and parallels the work of Locke. But Rousseau's work won the attentions of the Prussian Empire (Germans), essentially a synthetic state founded on a religious principle due to the fact the the Prussians were the subject of a religious war and Crusade by the Pope.

- In 1806 Napolean defeats Prussia at the battle of Jena, causing Prussia to realize that their defeat, they believed, was due to soldiers thinking only about themselves during time of stress in battle. Prussia then took the principles set forth by Rousseau and Locke and created a new three-tier educational system. The Prussian philospher Fichte, in his Address to the German People, states that the children will be taken over and told what to think and how to think it.

- In 1819 Prussian law makes education compulsory. The Humboldt brothers, Stein and others, divide German society into three distinct groups which is still in use today:

1. Those who will be policy makers and are taught to think. (The wealthy and elite) (.5%).

2. Those who will be engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. who are taught to partially think (5.5%).

3. The children of the masses (94%), who were to learn obedience and how to follow orders.

The school of the masses (volkschulen) divided whole ideas into subjects which did not exist previously. The result was that people would

1. Think what someone else told them to think about.

2. When to think it.

3. How long to think about it.

4. When to stop thinking about it.

5. When to think of something else.

This way no one in the masses would know anything about what is really going on. Although it was a great idea at the time, it is inherently negative in its nature and would eventually lead to German mind control paradigms in the late 19th and mid 20th century.

However, the system also weakens, or breaks the link, between the child and the capacity to read (cross-assimilation creating whole ideas) by replacing the alphabet system of teaching reading with a system of teaching sounds, (breaking into smaller units).

The same paradigm relative to reading was injected into US society by the Peabody Foundation, who imposed a northern system of schooling on the U.S. South between 1865 and 1918. The system in the Northern U.S. was (still is) the Prussian system.

If you look at the above 5 principles on teaching the masses what to think one can easily make parallels to today as our own government, as well as the Japanese government, and other major governments of Europe and around the world have been implimenting this same exact concept.

Let's take the tape of Osama Bin Laden that was released by the CIA yesterday. Bush's government has been under constant pressure recently to get our troops out of Iraq. His numbers have been sinking really low. Scandels within his administration, leaks about eavesdropping on our privacy, the Patriot Act taking away our freedoms in order to "fight terrorism", our open borders and illegal immigration, etc. all have been making headlines recently and have been gathering steam. The people are beginning to get restless and beginning to demand change and action. Then BAM! A tape is released by the CIA perporting to be Bin Laden thereby grabbing all the headlines now and taking the focus of the people away from all the scandals and instilling fear into the hearts of the American people who will now think, "We need Bush to fight this monster. The hell with the scandels."

They are telling us what to think about now, how long we should think about it (just watch the news) and they will tell us when to stop thinking about it. They are, in effect, forcing the masses to think about something other than the scandels and what other easier way to do it than bring up Bin Laden which, just his name, strikes fear into most Americans. And probably 94% of Americans fall for it because that is the way they were taught. If the government and news says it's so then it's true.

Blair in England has also been under fire recently then BAM! headlines about an attempted kidnapping of his son.

Isn't it kind of weird that in the past the CIA needed 36-48 hrs to confirm that a voice on a tape was Bin Laden and this time they did it in 12 hrs? If Bin Laden is alive I am absolutely positive he would be making video tapes and referring to recent headlines and incidents to prove he's alive. Funny in that over three years he has done neither. Instead we get "bad tapes on ancient equipment" and are told it is because he doesn't want to give his whereabouts away with electronic stamps. IMO he is dead, killed early on and they are just using him to strike fear into Americans whenever the need arises. Brilliant! Genius. And it works as was planned way back in the 15th century.

Still think the majority of people are not brainwashed?

I will continue more on a History of Brainwashing next time.

No-name
20-01-06, 21:13
Starbucks has convinced me that a cup of coffee at $4.00 is reasonable.

PRIZMATIC
21-01-06, 04:36
" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. " :blush: - Whether it is necessary to be surprised to what the information which perceives a society - a subject of so steadfast attention?... But whether here " this information washes out brains whether or not " to tell unequivocally it is impossible... It the real influences us, but also "Life" influences too... And sometimes " Revelations of the Life " sobering enough... If to not tell - destroying...
The Example to this can be the same "Soviet Union" - as ideologists tried there, but day when people, in the majority, it is simple has come and people more did not trust... And the youth which in the whole days at schools " filled some ideas their "brains" " to live began simply the culture... And the Universe did not remain indifferent - in the youth environment informal leaders who have made the protest through songs and style of a life have appeared - and this " the terrible machine of the state " itself has caught it " greatness of the Word " и " the Soviet union " has silently left on "is present"... It was in the eightieth.. .. America to this day thinks (?), that disorder of "Union" its this achievement, but in realities, "Union" has collapsed itself - under press of "him ideas"... The Person cannot long bear " so excessive burden ", as "idea", instead of a reality of a life... He wants to live simply...

sandoro
23-01-06, 10:01
Heh, just joking around, amigo! Actually, as much as I love a drop or two, I think alcoholism is a major issue for many gaijin I know here. Maybe it's just because of all the social pressure to drink here.


yes it is the pessure.
and i drink a huge amount of wine my self, and smoke too.
i am ok with that though.

sandoro
23-01-06, 10:09
Yes we most definitely are brainwashed sandoro. From the time we are born, from TV and books, from our parents, our friends, our teachers, our schools, our universities, our bosses at work, we are all brainwashed to one extent or another and is based on a few elitists concepts on how to control society and form a One World Government and has been in the works for many years now and may even be culminating here in the early 21st century.
Don't believe me? The brainwashing you talk about goes back to the late 15th Century and probably earlier. A few examples from history:
- In 1690 John Locke wrote "Concerning Human Understanding." (http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/locke/locke1/Essay_contents.html) One of the critical elements of the essay is the belief in the concept that children are tabula rasa, in other words, totally programmable. The idea was immediately taken up by the upper class in Europe and in the United States. It would become a cognitive foundation for the idea of "the emergence of a strong state," in terms of "programming an analytical systems substructure" - the substructure being the children who, under this paradigm, are entities to be possessed and controlled. This paradigm still exists today.
- In 1770 Emile (http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/introser/rousseau.htm) is written by Rousseau and parallels the work of Locke. But Rousseau's work won the attentions of the Prussian Empire (Germans), essentially a synthetic state founded on a religious principle due to the fact the the Prussians were the subject of a religious war and Crusade by the Pope.
- In 1806 Napolean defeats Prussia at the battle of Jena, causing Prussia to realize that their defeat, they believed, was due to soldiers thinking only about themselves during time of stress in battle. Prussia then took the principles set forth by Rousseau and Locke and created a new three-tier educational system. The Prussian philospher Fichte, in his Address to the German People, states that the children will be taken over and told what to think and how to think it.
- In 1819 Prussian law makes education compulsory. The Humboldt brothers, Stein and others, divide German society into three distinct groups which is still in use today:
1. Those who will be policy makers and are taught to think. (The wealthy and elite) (.5%).
2. Those who will be engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc. who are taught to partially think (5.5%).
3. The children of the masses (94%), who were to learn obedience and how to follow orders.
The school of the masses (volkschulen) divided whole ideas into subjects which did not exist previously. The result was that people would
1. Think what someone else told them to think about.
2. When to think it.
3. How long to think about it.
4. When to stop thinking about it.
5. When to think of something else.
This way no one in the masses would know anything about what is really going on. Although it was a great idea at the time, it is inherently negative in its nature and would eventually lead to German mind control paradigms in the late 19th and mid 20th century.
However, the system also weakens, or breaks the link, between the child and the capacity to read (cross-assimilation creating whole ideas) by replacing the alphabet system of teaching reading with a system of teaching sounds, (breaking into smaller units).
The same paradigm relative to reading was injected into US society by the Peabody Foundation, who imposed a northern system of schooling on the U.S. South between 1865 and 1918. The system in the Northern U.S. was (still is) the Prussian system.
If you look at the above 5 principles on teaching the masses what to think one can easily make parallels to today as our own government, as well as the Japanese government, and other major governments of Europe and around the world have been implimenting this same exact concept.
Let's take the tape of Osama Bin Laden that was released by the CIA yesterday. Bush's government has been under constant pressure recently to get our troops out of Iraq. His numbers have been sinking really low. Scandels within his administration, leaks about eavesdropping on our privacy, the Patriot Act taking away our freedoms in order to "fight terrorism", our open borders and illegal immigration, etc. all have been making headlines recently and have been gathering steam. The people are beginning to get restless and beginning to demand change and action. Then BAM! A tape is released by the CIA perporting to be Bin Laden thereby grabbing all the headlines now and taking the focus of the people away from all the scandals and instilling fear into the hearts of the American people who will now think, "We need Bush to fight this monster. The hell with the scandels."
They are telling us what to think about now, how long we should think about it (just watch the news) and they will tell us when to stop thinking about it. They are, in effect, forcing the masses to think about something other than the scandels and what other easier way to do it than bring up Bin Laden which, just his name, strikes fear into most Americans. And probably 94% of Americans fall for it because that is the way they were taught. If the government and news says it's so then it's true.
Blair in England has also been under fire recently then BAM! headlines about an attempted kidnapping of his son.
Isn't it kind of weird that in the past the CIA needed 36-48 hrs to confirm that a voice on a tape was Bin Laden and this time they did it in 12 hrs? If Bin Laden is alive I am absolutely positive he would be making video tapes and referring to recent headlines and incidents to prove he's alive. Funny in that over three years he has done neither. Instead we get "bad tapes on ancient equipment" and are told it is because he doesn't want to give his whereabouts away with electronic stamps. IMO he is dead, killed early on and they are just using him to strike fear into Americans whenever the need arises. Brilliant! Genius. And it works as was planned way back in the 15th century.
Still think the majority of people are not brainwashed?
I will continue more on a History of Brainwashing next time.

so here you are,
now we try to brainwash our self, to not brainwash our self.
there is not a way out.
hopefuly when we did, the cycle will stop.

Kinsao
23-01-06, 12:42
I wash my brain occasionally, but it's damn hard work - it's so filthy. :D

sandoro
24-01-06, 05:51
I wash my brain occasionally, but it's damn hard work - it's so filthy. :D


you think it's cleaned!!
there is no any substance in the market that really does the job, but is better than nothing.

Pachipro
25-01-06, 19:18
so here you are,
now we try to brainwash our self, to not brainwash our self.
there is not a way out.
hopefuly when we did, the cycle will stop.
I doubt the cycle will ever stop unless those that know what is going on become wise to "their" game and refuse to take it anymore. Unfortunately, for the masses I do not see it coming. I continue....

One of the reasons that the Prussian system of education was brought to
the US was to ensure a workforce that was non-thinking in order to staff the growing Industrial Revolution. In 1776 about 85% of US citizens were reasonably educated and had independent livlihoods. In other words, they didn't need to work for anyone else. By 1840 the ratio was about 70%. The attitude of thinking for yourself and striking out on your own had to be broken and the Prussian Educational System was the perfect way to "dumb down" the mass population.

The importation of the Prussian system was underwritten and funded by the elite and wealthy of the day, the Rockefeller family, the Carnegie, the Whitney and the Peabody families. In fact the University of Chicago was underwritten by the Rockefellers.

- 1880 began a 20 year period where elite American students were sent to Germany to study the Wilhelm Wundt System of Psychology and returned to head the departments of Psychology at Harvard, the University of Pennsylvania, Cornell and all major universities and colleges. The "dumbing down" of the population begins.

- In 1890 Andrew Carnegie writes a series of eleven essays called "The Gospel of Wealth" in which he catagorically states that free enterprise and capatalism no longer existed in the US because he and Rockefeller owned everything, including the government, and that competition was impossible unless they allowed it. Carnegie also said that, eventually, the young children will become aware of this and form clandestine organizations to fight against it.
Carnegie also proposed that men of wealth form a synthetic free enterprise system based on cradle-to-grave schooling. The people who advanced through schooling would receive licenses (Diplomas) to lead profitable lives. All licenses (diplomas) are tied to forms of schooling. This way the entire economy can be controlled and people would have a motivation for them to learn what you want them to learn. If the students didn't want to learn what they were teaching us and think what they were teaching us to think, we would not recieve diplomas and thus unable to work and lead profitable lives. It also placed the minds of all children into the hands of a few social engineers.


-In 1904 John D. Rockefeller issued "Occasional Letter No.1" detailing plans to mold the people, reduce national intelligence to the lowest common denominator, destroy parential influence, tradition and customs, and eliminate science and real learning, "in order to perfect human nature." (Note: John D. Rockefeller also provided funds for the first Communist Revolution in 1905 through Standard Oil Company representatives. After the failure Lenin was sent to Switzerland presumably to learn from these elitists on how to do it better the second time.)

-In 1910 Andrew Carnegie instituted his Wundt model of volkschulen, school for the masses, in his home town of Gary, Indiana. This was accomplished after only four years in 1914. This system had no academic endeavor at all. It was carried out by a one William Wirt who also pioneered it in New York.
Also in this year, the Rockefellers achieved working control of the Carnegie Foundations. This educational Trust controled ALL jobs in education, and was run out of Stanford and Columbia Teachers Colleges. No teacher could receive their "license" unless they learned what those in control wanted them to learn and teach. It was "teach our way, or the highway."
Also, this was the year the one-room schoolhouse was abolished and was no longer in existance in the US. In one-room schoolhouses students could learn to think for themselves. This was to be forbidden.

-In 1922 school became the ultimate screening mechanism and ultimate creator of a receptive, docile public. It was in this year that individual communities were gradually denied the right to hire their own teachers. State legislatures were forced to accept the idea of "certification" of teachers by the Carnegie/Rockefeller controlled Education Trust and teacher colleges.

-In 1930 William Wirt is comimitted to an insane asylum in Washington D.C., where he died in 1932. Wirt was committed because he began to make public speeches saying that he had been part of a worldwide conspiracy to bring about a controlled state in the hands of certain people (the wealthy elite and globalists)-the same people who, more than likely had him committed in the first place.

To be continued....

Still think that everything you are being taught and told is the truth?

sandoro
26-01-06, 11:31
I doubt the cycle will ever stop unless those that know what is going on become wise to "their" game and refuse to take it anymore. Unfortunately, for the masses I do not see it coming. I continue....
One of the reasons that the Prussian system of education was brought to
the US was to ensure a workforce that was non-thinking in order to staff the growing Industrial Revolution. In 1776 about 85% of US citizens were reasonably educated and had independent livlihoods. In other words, they didn't need to work for anyone else. By 1840 the ratio was about 70%. The attitude of thinking for yourself and striking out on your own had to be broken and the Prussian Educational System was the perfect way to "dumb down" the mass population.
The importation of the Prussian system was underwritten and funded by the elite and wealthy of the day, the Rockefeller family, the Carnegie, the Whitney and the Peabody families. In fact the University of Chicago was underwritten by the Rockefellers.
- 1880 began a 20 year period where elite American students were sent to Germany to study the Wilhelm Wundt System of Psychology and returned to head the departments of Psychology at Harvard, the University of Pennsylvania, Cornell and all major universities and colleges. The "dumbing down" of the population begins.
- In 1890 Andrew Carnegie writes a series of eleven essays called "The Gospel of Wealth" in which he catagorically states that free enterprise and capatalism no longer existed in the US because he and Rockefeller owned everything, including the government, and that competition was impossible unless they allowed it. Carnegie also said that, eventually, the young children will become aware of this and form clandestine organizations to fight against it.
Carnegie also proposed that men of wealth form a synthetic free enterprise system based on cradle-to-grave schooling. The people who advanced through schooling would receive licenses (Diplomas) to lead profitable lives. All licenses (diplomas) are tied to forms of schooling. This way the entire economy can be controlled and people would have a motivation for them to learn what you want them to learn. If the students didn't want to learn what they were teaching us and think what they were teaching us to think, we would not recieve diplomas and thus unable to work and lead profitable lives. It also placed the minds of all children into the hands of a few social engineers.
-In 1904 John D. Rockefeller issued "Occasional Letter No.1" detailing plans to mold the people, reduce national intelligence to the lowest common denominator, destroy parential influence, tradition and customs, and eliminate science and real learning, "in order to perfect human nature." (Note: John D. Rockefeller also provided funds for the first Communist Revolution in 1905 through Standard Oil Company representatives. After the failure Lenin was sent to Switzerland presumably to learn from these elitists on how to do it better the second time.)
-In 1910 Andrew Carnegie instituted his Wundt model of volkschulen, school for the masses, in his home town of Gary, Indiana. This was accomplished after only four years in 1914. This system had no academic endeavor at all. It was carried out by a one William Wirt who also pioneered it in New York.
Also in this year, the Rockefellers achieved working control of the Carnegie Foundations. This educational Trust controled ALL jobs in education, and was run out of Stanford and Columbia Teachers Colleges. No teacher could receive their "license" unless they learned what those in control wanted them to learn and teach. It was "teach our way, or the highway."
Also, this was the year the one-room schoolhouse was abolished and was no longer in existance in the US. In one-room schoolhouses students could learn to think for themselves. This was to be forbidden.
-In 1922 school became the ultimate screening mechanism and ultimate creator of a receptive, docile public. It was in this year that individual communities were gradually denied the right to hire their own teachers. State legislatures were forced to accept the idea of "certification" of teachers by the Carnegie/Rockefeller controlled Education Trust and teacher colleges.
-In 1930 William Wirt is comimitted to an insane asylum in Washington D.C., where he died in 1932. Wirt was committed because he began to make public speeches saying that he had been part of a worldwide conspiracy to bring about a controlled state in the hands of certain people (the wealthy elite and globalists)-the same people who, more than likely had him committed in the first place.
To be continued....
Still think that everything you are being taught and told is the truth?


we are not different to any other individulas, we may feel that we can't get out, but at the end, we just have to accept that been brainwashed is part of this planet's life, so let's be happy to be brainwashed, so to speak

Tsuyoiko
26-01-06, 13:18
I think the biggest form of brainwashing that everyone falls for is that you have to work 40 hours a week for 40 years of your life to be able to buy what you need. Think about it - how much of what you buy could you live without? Would your life really be so bad without that fancy new car, or the four-bedroomed house, or the two weeks in the sun that is soon forgotten? Do you really want those things, or have you been brainwashed into thinking you want them? Wouldn't you rather do without, and have twice as much leisure time?

No-name
26-01-06, 22:41
Hmm I guess it goes to the point of whether we believe what "society" tells us about ourselves? Do we believe the messages that we are given that tell us who we are and what is important?

sandoro
27-01-06, 03:09
I think the biggest form of brainwashing that everyone falls for is that you have to work 40 hours a week for 40 years of your life to be able to buy what you need. Think about it - how much of what you buy could you live without? Would your life really be so bad without that fancy new car, or the four-bedroomed house, or the two weeks in the sun that is soon forgotten? Do you really want those things, or have you been brainwashed into thinking you want them? Wouldn't you rather do without, and have twice as much leisure time?
nothing wrong with been brainwashed,
in this case is nice to be brainwashed feeling the need of the stuff you have mentioned,
my point is that it does not matter how happy we are we ar alwasy brainwashed, after we die we may be brainwashed in a different way, so depending on the situation is nice to be brainwashed as long as we don't mind, if we do then your false feeling of being content will switch to being miserable, and you can't do anything in this dimention keep thinking that you are always been brainwashed, so let's appreciate the brainwashing machine.

sandoro
27-01-06, 03:13
Hmm I guess it goes to the point of whether we believe what "society" tells us about ourselves? Do we believe the messages that we are given that tell us who we are and what is important?

it does not matter, nothing will change regardless.
there is no a way out, only death (maybe) no that i wish to die, but i think that maybe if people are not happy of living in this dimention, that could be the only way, sad or not sad.

No-name
27-01-06, 06:36
it does not matter, nothing will change regardless.
there is no a way out, only death (maybe) no that i wish to die, but i think that maybe if people are not happy of living in this dimention, that could be the only way, sad or not sad.
That does sound quite sad. Is everything okay?

sandoro
27-01-06, 07:27
That does sound quite sad. Is everything okay?
I was just generalizing man!
my self is ok, just interesting to see it from a different angle.
when people feel so low to the point of getting out from this planet, that is the only prerogative.
influences and brainwashing from us and everyone else cause suicide,
nobody is immune, once that happen there is no way back.
unless you are able to be brainwashed to the point of coming back from where you where before which is living and not ding.

No-name
27-01-06, 09:40
But if one kills oneself, how can the man exploit him?

sandoro
27-01-06, 12:19
But if one kills oneself, how can the man exploit him?

I never died before so I don't know.

Tsuyoiko
27-01-06, 14:14
nothing wrong with been brainwashed,
in this case is nice to be brainwashed feeling the need of the stuff you have mentioned.Sounds like the brainwashing worked really well on you! (just kidding :relief: ) I feel lucky that I managed to deprogram myself. I work 3 days a week, live in a tiny house with an aging car and don't take foreign holidays. I feel great to know that I have a lot of leisure time (though still not enough!) and can still pay my mortgage off within the year!

Kinsao
27-01-06, 14:23
I'm similar to Tsuyoiko, except that I don't have a car or a mortgage, and I have to work 5 days a week (cos there's only one of me! :p ).

Well, I lie, I go abroad sometimes. Flight for 99 p, anyone? :cool:
I guess you could say the money I don't have to spend running a car, I can save up to go see MUCC play live in Germany. :dance:

I certainly do think that people believe they need too much. I know many people who, when leaving home, think they're living in the depths of poverty if they don't have a freezer and a microwave. :okashii: I still don't have a freezer... and neither does my mom, after living almost twice as long as me! it's hardly a major hardship. I've also lost count of the number of people I know who's parents buy them a [new!!!] car as soon as they pass their driving test! :shock: As a family when I was growing up we could never have afforded more than one old banger between us.

God, I sound like one of those irritating people who moans "I don't know what the young people of today are coming to"... :bluush: It's not young people though... it's those my age and above mainly... who seem to be so affluent, living in big houses, running cars, etc, etc, but then you find out they are in big debt, and why? :? They are earning tens of thousands, like 20, 30, 40 K a year, and they have to have a debt?

sandoro
30-01-06, 04:03
I am ok with these stuff,
since i keep moving around I don't need any of the stuff, i only have a motorbike the allows me to keep moving aorund, but i am getting tired phisically.
by doing that, i probably don't have time to think about my brainwashing state of mind.

Reiku
06-02-06, 12:30
Of course we are.

But it goes deeper than our parents, or our society:

Our entire perception of reality is conditioned into us.

Can a person lift a car?

Likely, the first answer that occurs you is: No. You might also remember the stories of parent's lifting cars off their children after an accident and conclude than it is possible in extreme situations.

Perhaps you can already see how that response has been conditioned into us? Have you ever actually seen someone lift a car? Have you ever seen someone do something you didn't think was possible?

So really, how can you be sure either way?

Here's another good one, if you'll permit me to borrow from "Stranger In A Strange Land":

Is cannibalism uncivilized?

Your first reaction was "Yes", right? Perhaps accompanied by a mental image of a bunch of people with bone jewelry dancing around a large cooking pot?

But why?

Certainly it's an untapped resource--people die all the time and we just let them go to waste. Wouldn't civilized people be able to regard human flesh as a potential food source without giving into the urge to barbecue the neighbors?

So really, it is because we are not civilized enough to avoid butchering our fellow man that we have such a strong taboo against cannibalism that the very idea seems revolting.

Even such things as psychic powers, or the nature of gravity, or the possibility of time travel--we have opinions on all these things programmed into us, but do we really have an informed opinion, or are we just following "conventional wisdom"?

Gravity does indeed seem to pull things down--or towards the center of mass--depending on who did your programming. But what do we actually know about it ourselves?

We can't even prove whether or not any of what we see and hear is actually real, but we are not only conditioned to believe that it is real, but to interpret that sensory information a certain way without question.

Here's something to ponder:

According to physics, the light we see is actually reflected off of objects--it's color being determined by what color is reflected rather than absorbed into the object.

So a "red" apple is in fact every visible color but red.

How can we even be sure the physicists got it right? Especially considering all the evidence they based their theories on came to them through their limited and deceptive senses?

Bottom line:

Question everything!

Hテゥloテッse
12-04-19, 13:22
every .. but you can say that so quikcly