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View Full Version : How do you apply (or not) the "Golden Rule"?



No-name
23-01-06, 03:42
All the world's great religions contain some teaching contained in "Treat others how you want to be treated." Do you apply this? Are there limits? Do you believe this is a basic moral tenent? How does this work in your world view?

Please comment.

Sensuikan San
23-01-06, 03:57
Yes!

I believe it is a basic tenent - and I try to hold to it absolutely.

Unfortunately, and because I hold to it absolutely .... if anybody tries, or succeeds in, screwing me ....

.... then, I'm afraid that I sometimes feel obligated to responding accordingly .... and Royally!

(I suppose that it is at that point - I show myself as being an Atheist, and free from "Christian" values!)

ジョン

No-name
23-01-06, 04:15
LOL- I understand; But "the rule of reciprocity" is slightly different than the "law of retribution." It is the difference between "do unto others..." and "eye for an eye."

Revenant
23-01-06, 04:22
It's generally a good rule to live by, but every once in a while, I'll get the 'meekest of dogs taking a chunk out of someone' syndrome. Sometimes I'll regret that later.

strongvoicesforward
23-01-06, 04:39
I like the Golden Rule. I follow it.

But, why should it be followed? -- to avoid causing pain, misery, suffering etc...?



What about masochists? Masochists enjoy and want others to cause them pain or misery. That is what and how they want to be treated?

If Joe is a masochist, and wants others to hit, kick, and abuse him, does the Golden Rule still apply to him, and therefore he is now free to hit, kick, and abuse others? -- after all: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Sensuikan San
23-01-06, 05:33
LOL- I understand; But "the rule of reciprocity" is slightly different than the "law of retribution." It is the difference between "do unto others..." and "eye for an eye."

No. I disagree.

Essentially I see it as the same rule.


I like the Golden Rule. I follow it.

But, why should it be followed? -- to avoid causing pain, misery, suffering etc...?



What about masochists? Masochists enjoy and want others to cause them pain or misery. That is what and how they want to be treated?

If Joe is a masochist, and wants others to hit, kick, and abuse him, does the Golden Rule still apply to him, and therefore he is now free to hit, kick, and abuse others? -- after all: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

No. Too simplistic.

Joe only wants that by his own volition. Joe would not necessarily expect everybody else to feel as he does.

"Joe" is a masochist. Not a sadist.

You really should give more thought to some of your your posts, SVF ...... sorry!

ジョン

strongvoicesforward
23-01-06, 05:43
You really should give more thought to some of your your posts, SVF ...... sorry!
ジョン

No need to apologise, John.

John, those questions were just meant to feel out others on the issue. Musing if you will. Not a statement of my opinion on the matter. They weren`t meant as me asserting Joe should be rightfully permitted to cause pain based on the Golden Rule.

Your response addressing them was quite good.

Mars Man
23-01-06, 06:00
Good questions there sabro san !! Yes, I do go by that 'rule'. It is an element of intelligence that can be seen not only in humans, but, and especially in the Great Apes, in animals to some extent too. As you mentioned there sabro, it is the element of reciprocality, and every good salesperson knows it well !!

In human and animal bonding, it is very necessary to maintain social structure, and, of course as sabro so correctly mentioned, it is not Christian nor Jewish, nor Hindu. . . it is natural.

Regarding the M person, I'd tend to agree with Sensuikan San.

One way that I apply this in my life, is by listening carefully to people when they talk. I feel that everyone wants to be heard, including me, and so I am careful to listen before giving advice, or saying anything about the matter presented to me. For that reason, my students at the Uni trust me with helping them with their problems. (usually about [in order] love, work, home-situation, study):-)

strongvoicesforward
23-01-06, 06:22
Which university, MM? -- if you don`t mind answering.

Mars Man
23-01-06, 06:43
Matsumoto University in Matsumoto, Nagano Prefecture. It's a private institution.

No-name
23-01-06, 06:57
I think the reciprocity rule is universal, but not natural. Most "rules" are an imposition on our natures. The retribution law seems far more natural...as well as the good old "Do unto others "before" they do unto you."

Sensuikan San
23-01-06, 07:34
Your response addressing them was quite good.

本当に りがとう!

ジョン

nice gaijin
23-01-06, 07:42
I believe that the golden rule is based on an older and more selfless tenet of human interaction that ensures civil communication: put others first.

Personally, I think that to treat others well only because you expect them to return in kind is kind of an egocentric way of thinking. The golden rule as we know it is centered around the idea of incentives and retribution; the way we treat others shouldn't be shaped by what we expect from them.

Revenant
23-01-06, 07:59
That is one light that I have viewed the Golden Rule in. But since holding true compassion, love, patience, and good will towards people 100% of the time is impossible even for the best of us, 'do unto others as you would have done unto yourself' is a good maxim to hold, as we can easily identify with what we ourselves would want. I would still encourage the practice or rather, meditations upon compassion, love, and all the other better states of mind, not only cause it is ethical, but also cause they are also healthier states of mind to be in, and therefore healthier for the body as well.

Tsuyoiko
23-01-06, 14:07
I prefer 'do as you will but harm none'. Since everyone is different, treating others as you would wish to be treated isn't necessarily the best thing. The two are very similar, but my emphasis is more on 'am I going to hurt anyone?' than on 'would I like that to happen to me?'. Admittedly, the difference is subtle - but think about how it works for someone you're close to, but who's different from yourself.

Kinsao
23-01-06, 15:42
I agree with Tsuyoiko that people are different and you can't always know what someone else would want. Our point of view is limited, no matter how much we try.

I suppose I try to put myself into the other person's shoes. Even though it's not easy or always possible, it's about the best we can do.

Also it depends on the circumstances, because what a person wants or likes isn't necessarily what is good for them. (e.g. the masochist, child who wants too much candy, etc. etc.) So I think a dash of common sense or the rational thinking is called for in certain cases. (Ok, we can't expect to be right every time, though. ><)

'Do as you will but harm none' is a good rule of thumb, but it's also important to remember that when you make your choices, you are changing yourself, you are making yourself into a certain kind of person. And no one (except maybe the most extreme of hermits) exists totally independently of everyone else in the world. No matter if you think your actions/decisions only affect you and no one else, the kind of person you make yourself into affects other people too. Often our actions affect people in ways we couldn't have predicted.

I'm not saying it's a bad maxim - as I said, it is a good thing. Just, a thought. :wave:

strongvoicesforward
23-01-06, 15:49
本当に りがとう!
ジョン

You're welcome.

No-name
24-01-06, 09:04
Does this require that you treat people better than you think they deserve?

Mars Man
24-01-06, 09:29
. . . it is natural.

Just in case there may have been any misconception. When I had used the word 'natural' above, I had used in the sense of being an innate element of the higher intelligence of nature, as to 'fall in love' is natural, or as to 'sympathize is natural'. :-)


a big PS. . .so nice to hear from you kinsao chan !!!!!

No-name
27-01-06, 09:46
Beer onto others as you would have beer onto yourself?

Pachipro
27-01-06, 19:43
Beer onto others as you would have beer onto yourself?
I'll drink to that!:beer:

strongvoicesforward
27-01-06, 19:50
Beer onto others as you would have beer onto yourself?

I prefer wine -- if possible the kind Jesus "rebuked" Mary about when she had reminded him the wine had run out. She seemed to have been wanting him to make some more. ;-)

No-name
27-01-06, 21:27
I actually don't drink, but I can definitely be the designated driver.

Mars Man
28-01-06, 09:29
Hey sabro !! YOU'RE stealing my lines !! That was supposed to be mine. . . beer unto others as... ! hee,hee,hee.......NICE and oh, how do I like that !!

OK, you bring the wine strongvoicesforward san, Pachipro san, you bring the glasses and I'll bring the beer and the refined Japanese tea for our designated driver, sabro san. . . and let's all go for a spin !! Yeah !!!!!:cool: