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Tokis-Phoenix
01-03-06, 19:29
A simple poll/thread, do you feed the wild birds in your garden/home or town/park etc and what are your concerns regarding bird flu right now?

Dutch Baka
01-03-06, 20:51
It's coming pretty close in here, so yeah i think that soon, i will boycote Chicken...

Frank D. White
01-03-06, 23:35
the whole bird flu thing is being used by the governmant as a smoke & mirrors thing. Give us something to worry about so we don't think about how bad a job they are doing running things.Maybe if I slept in a house full of birds without sanitation, I WOULD worry?

Frank

:okashii:

bossel
02-03-06, 05:55
A simple poll/thread, do you feed the wild birds in your garden/home or town/park etc and what are your concerns regarding bird flu right now?
You shouldn't feed wild birds, anyway. That helps only the weak individuals to survive & eventually weakens the whole population.

For the rest I generally agree with Frank, it's simply blown out of proportion. To declare a state of disaster on an island, just because some dozens of birds died of bird flu (as happened in Germany), is ridiculous.

epigene
02-03-06, 06:13
I agree with Frank & bossel.

Wild birds shouldn't be fed. They must maintain balance in population with other creatures.

BTW, no one gets the bird flu from a chicken dish, unless it's seriously undercooked (raw).

Mitsuo
02-03-06, 10:28
I agree with Epigene, because she agrees with Frank and bossel. The bird flu is really blown out of proportion I think. There is always a scare of some sort. It never lives up to it's reputation and hype. That's Good though.

Kinsao
02-03-06, 12:14
I don't feed the birds, that's because I have a small garden and no place to put a bird table where it would be safe from the many cats in the area, so I doubt it would attract them anyway. Living in the city, to put waste food on the ground I wouldn't do because of the likelihood of attracting vermin. ><

About bird flu... sometimes I think I should worry more about these sort of issues... :worried: I just tend to carry on with life and not think much about them... whatever will be will be... At the moment I'm just waiting to see what the next news is; as things are at present it isn't enough of a problem in the UK to give me a sleepless night. :p

Tsuyoiko
02-03-06, 12:32
I haven't fed birds for a while. I sometimes take stale bread to a local nature reserve, as it seems preferable to throwing it away. I'm glad that most people realise that the bird flu thing has been blown out of proportion.

nurizeko
02-03-06, 12:32
Oh noez birds gitting teh flu!!, how will i continue to live when i am a human and i cant catch bird flu unless im really unlucky, a flu that is apparently so bad, when in a third world backwater like vietnam only had a handful of deaths opposed to the constantly prophecied millions upon millions world epidemic.


I dont think ill loose any sleep if it gets up here.

<scientist> "theres a slim chance like most animal viruses that it could mutate to infect humans, and even slighter slimmer almost impossible chance it will mutate into a mega super flu that will whipe humanity out."

<government and dumb public> "OMFG WERE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!11!!11 AAAAH GET THE F*** OUT MY WAY!!! IM NOT GOING TO DIE!! NOT MEEE!!!! *picks up a fire hidrant and starts smashing people out the way, runs to his car drives wildy to a supermarket and uses the hydrant to smash other panick stricken morons out the way, fills up hisa car on food and bunkers in his home, shoots at passers by with his dead fathers old shotgun and shouts wildly about the end of the world and what not*

...Okay okay a wild over exagiration, but im so tired of the public in general always sh*tt**g themselves over every scare that "experts" and stuff talk about.

The scare before bird flu and the latest incarnation of sudden climate change was asteroids smashing into the earth........were still here. :okashii:

Kara_Nari
02-03-06, 16:55
I dont like feeding birds... because it just encourages them to become scavengers... im not so phased about the bird flu... I guess I should be.
I hate having a picnic, and being surrounded by birds... that and I dont want them doing business on me when I shoo them away.
However if its a pet bird, thats fine, of course I feed them.

Tokis-Phoenix
02-03-06, 19:19
You shouldn't feed wild birds, anyway. That helps only the weak individuals to survive & eventually weakens the whole population.
For the rest I generally agree with Frank, it's simply blown out of proportion. To declare a state of disaster on an island, just because some dozens of birds died of bird flu (as happened in Germany), is ridiculous.

I feed the birds that come into my garden.
Where i live in England, its not so much just a matter of survival of the fittest, people have recently discovered that the large decline in many bird species is simply due to the fact they are starving due to our influence on the enviroment;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4686136.stm

Many birds that hang around populated areas are already scavengers, especially with the low amount of natural food resources we have down here for most wildlife anyway- so i doubt my behavior of regually feeding them will influence their behavior in much way, i also feed alot of more natural foods like live insects that i buy from my local petshop.
I regually feed the birds that come into my garden, i have numerous bird feeders of various sorts hanging off the tree and wall in it, i dont see any problem with feeding the birds as long as if they do get used to finding food in your place, that you dont randomly cut off the supply- but i always make sure they have food. I've seen many a rare bird come into my garden for food as well, so i must be doing somthing good if i am supplying food for the species of birds that really need it :cool: .

I agree most of the bird flu fears is drastically hyped up by the media, although it does still have the potential to cause major damage as it is already doing in many other countries- i am still interested in the spread of the desease though. But i wonder if it is going to be a bit like the mad cow desease situation, where it was massively blown out of proportion by the media, hundreds of millions of cows were slaughtered, thousands of farmers went out of buisness, thousands of other people lost their jobs, and in the end, only a couple of hundred people tops died out of the nation- and now they say that they may not have contracted any desease at all, but rather mercury poisening.
The thing is though with the mad cow desease crisis, is that millions of people stopped buying beef even though in reality you had more chance of being hit by an asteriod than contracting the desease, which is now itself in doubt. I wonder if with all the bird flu hype that millions of people who feed wild birds will also stop because of the fears in a similar situation as the beef crisis. They even say now that domesticated cats can carry the desease, so i wonder how they will fare in all of this :? ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4761024.stm

.... .... .....

bossel
03-03-06, 03:51
i must be doing somthing good if i am supplying food for the species of birds that really need it
See, that's where you're wrong. Just because they come to you to be fed, doesn't mean that it's good for the species. The only "good" reason to feed birds is an exceptionally cold winter.


I wonder if with all the bird flu hype that millions of people who feed wild birds will also stop because of the fears in a similar situation as the beef crisis.
I hope so, although it's not necessary for people's health.


They even say now that domesticated cats can carry the desease,
Cats can, dogs can't. But that doesn't mean that cats can infect someone. Probably, just like humans, they can be carriers but not transmitters.

Tokis-Phoenix
03-03-06, 04:20
See, that's where you're wrong. Just because they come to you to be fed, doesn't mean that it's good for the species. The only "good" reason to feed birds is an exceptionally cold winter.
How exactly can it be bad for the species if it already scavenges to a certain extent naturally anyway?
EDIT: I think its fine to feed birds throughout the entire year, especially during the breeding seasons when they need it most- i'd like it if you can give me reason/s why not to feed the birds at any time except during a harsh winter, especially rare species of birds.

bossel
03-03-06, 04:41
How exactly can it be bad for the species if it already scavenges to a certain extent naturally anyway?
You provide food that else wouldn't be there. What's more, you always do it at the same place so that they don't have to look very much for it. You provide a steady food source that otherwise wouldn't exist & help birds to survive which otherwise would perhaps die or at least weren't able to breed.

For your edit: See my 1st post (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=316783&postcount=4).

Tokis-Phoenix
03-03-06, 04:51
You provide food that else wouldn't be there. What's more, you always do it at the same place so that they don't have to look very much for it. You provide a steady food source that otherwise wouldn't exist & help birds to survive which otherwise would perhaps die or at least weren't able to breed.

Yes but many natural food resources would be there if it wern't for us, we are no longer in a position where its "lets not try to help birds by feeding them because its wrong to interfere with them" because we have already interfered with their natural way of life already to a great extent and messed up natural selection anyway.
If a bird species goes extinct because it can simply no longer survive in a healthy natural habitat and enviroment because of various natural pressures, then fine, but if a bird species goes extinct due to a human influence then i think its up to us to try and save it before it does because its our fault in the first place for its declining.
Do you think its wrong that people create wildlife researves specifically to feed and create homes/breeding sites for a particular animal/s? Because in essence, its no different in concept to sticking up a bird nest box or feeder/table in your garden. The RSPB and other charitys/wildlife and researve companys and BBC website strongly supports the general public doing such acts for the benefet of wildlife;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/birds/thingstodo/

Minty
03-03-06, 14:12
I used to feed birds near the lakes in Australia but I donft do that here in France because I donft really go to parks here, I go much more often to the malls and to the mountains.

I saw a documentary that you can only get infected from sick birds through their faeces and their feathers or if you sleep with or sleep close to your farm birds or pet birds. :souka:

I will still continue to eat chicken, I will definitely eat well done chicken only (in French cuisine there are some chicken dishes that are a bit raw in the middle as French like to eat meats that are not fully cooked.) I guess those are out.

ShayLee
04-03-06, 23:02
I rarely feed birds, sometimes we make "bird house" in winter.

They found few birds with virus in our country, but I think that people here are going little too far - I read in newspapers that vets got a lot of calls, person asking: What should I do? There's a bird in my tree!

Well, yeah, as few od you already said: blown out of proportion.

bossel
05-03-06, 06:15
we have already interfered with their natural way of life already to a great extent and messed up natural selection anyway.
& that's a good reason to make it worse?


if a bird species goes extinct due to a human influence then i think its up to us to try and save it before it does because its our fault in the first place for its declining.
Agreed, but I doubt that your way is right.


Do you think its wrong that people create wildlife researves specifically to feed and create homes/breeding sites for a particular animal/s?
To compare your garden to a wildlife reserve is a bit pompous (unless your garden is much bigger than I think it is).


Because in essence, its no different in concept to sticking up a bird nest box or feeder/table in your garden.
The essence is very different, because in a reserve the birds have to find their food themselves & natural selection applies. There are no "bird lovers" around who think they need some nice colourful singers in their backyard (& beware of those evil [insert your favourite predator here]!).


The RSPB and other charitys/wildlife and researve companys and BBC website strongly supports the general public doing such acts for the benefet of wildlife
Ooh, a lot of "bird lovers" there. :p Well, strange, but wildlife conservation organisations here in Germany (like BUND (http://vorort.bund.net/konstanz/Infos/Umwelt-Tipps/Daten/uwtipjanuar.html) & NABU (http://www.nabu.de/m05/m05_03/01898.html)) are saying pretty much what I preach: only feed in hard winters when there is ice & a compact snow layer, else you support only a few species & disable natural selection.

It's better to save the money that you spend on fodder & give it to some conservation organisation to buy & keep land.

Kinsao
06-03-06, 12:01
I've heard recommendations similar to Bossel - I think the idea being that it weakens the species if they can get their food too easily. I heard that it was best to feed them only in winter, when it gets really cold.

It's a difficult issue because humans already mess so much with the environment, like Tokis said. Conservation and preservation of species needs to be undertaken by experts who know what they're doing, because it's a delicate balance.

Luckily I don't have the problem of having to make a decision 'to feed or not to feed', as I really don't want to encourage rats (although perhaps I should be feeding them, too? :worried: :D )

Tokis-Phoenix
25-03-06, 17:18
It appears that a lack of food for birds during their breeding seasons is becomming a bigger threat now days than harsh winters;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4835208.stm

Still the BBC encourages people to feed the birds, while i agree bossel my garden is nothing like a wildlife researve and it probably never will be, for most of us that only have a small amount of money to spare on things like encouraging wildlife to thrive, feeding creatures like the birds can help them enormously.
If the birds would never naturally survive then they will get picked off by predators and bad weather etc anyways wether you feed them or not. But if i knew that the food i gave to say, a pair of sparrows during the summer, enabled them to successfully raise 3 of their offspring that would have otherwise died from starvation due to the influence of man on the enviroment, and those 3 little sparrows grow up to have more babys each and so on and so forth, and perhaps years down the line, just because of the 2 bag of bird food and bird cake helped create 100 more sparrows in the wild- then i would be very satisfied.
Pigeons thrive in this country not because they are great at building nests and raising young, or good at finding food and coping with the winters, but because by their own choice they have moved in their millions in the populated cities and related areas and scavenged off people- they are still wild birds, but are successful because they have learned how to take advantage of people. If they hadn't, they would probably be like most of the other thousands of rare species of birds in england in decline. They don't spend all their time in populated areas either, for the most part they live in the countryside, but come a harsh winter they crowd into the cities.
I don't think feeding the birds though will create people-dependant weak domesticated birds, because;
a. Birds that end up in towns, cities and villages are already relatively tolerant of people and would be there wether people fed them or not.
b. Feeding the birds just gives them food, if the birds become weak they would be killed by natural things anyways- it would just be the likelyhood of starvation as a cause of death would be less high.
c. Even town/city birds do not spend all their time in such populataed areas- for example, starlings have been coming into our towns and cities for centuarys, and every night they retreat back into the countryside in giant flocks.