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View Full Version : Atlantean Names, Valley of Mexico: Interest?



EdZiomek
06-03-06, 01:49
As most on this website know... I am an avid fan of the Diffusion of cultures across time, across continents.

In my touristy, amateur historian travels, I have come across a concentration of Atlantean names in the Valley of Mexico. They were found on a tourist map created by the City of Mexico City, compiling an ancient map of the Valley along with Aztecan and non-Aztecan names and iconagraphy prior to the Conquistador invasion of 1521 or so.

What I think was accomplished is a recreation of the ancient names and places and iconography destroyed by the Spanish Conquistadors.

I see Asian influences in these place names and iconography. I would like to share the actual graphical images with readers of this website. For all my amateurish studies, I can find no other place on earth that has 10 Atlantean place-names and iconic symbolism. Maybe I am wrong.

With all my heart, I can almost bet that the Japanese and Chinese readers of this website may recognize Asian symbolism in these place names...

One example... Xochimilco and Xochimanco...

Zho-shee meel ko

and

Zho shee-man-ka

Lake of the Flowers, and God of the Flowers, I believe, similar to Sushi of the Japanese language, which ...correct me if I am wrong...I believe meant... "flowers", or "fish-food made to look like flowers".
I am asking the readers of this website for their opinion... Is there any historical interest in viewing these "Aztecan" images from the Valley of Mexico, for comparison with Japanese mythology and language?

I am not calling them true, or factual... just very interesting and possibly important.

Ed Ziomek

bossel
06-03-06, 03:32
As most on this website know... I am an avid fan of the Diffusion of cultures across time, across continents.
Esp. when it's Atlantis-related, IIRC.


Is there any historical interest in viewing these "Aztecan" images from the Valley of Mexico, for comparison with Japanese mythology and language?
There sure is, if you can actually provide some linguistic & historical evidence for your ideas (unlike you did in this thread (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20957), where you seem to have started on a similar route).

EdZiomek
06-03-06, 16:11
Mr. Bossell... we've seen this movie before. We have discussed my amateur limitations before. I have given you example after example of books printed about the probable, possible, plausible connections among the continents in the ancient world.

The Western Hemisphere did not disappear for 10,000 years, from all cultures, everywhere on this earth.

I have no proof. I admit that. I can only cite book references, and authors, which you have made well known, you disagree with.

Can I ask you to just... NOT POST on my thread, and let me present to the 1000 other viewers these iconic symbolism, without your constant, and unanimous disagreements?

In my heart, Mr. Bossell, you kill threads with your opinion, that all my opinions and theories and guesswork, do not meet your scientific standards, in your self-annointed estimations. Your theories, versus my theories.

And I think you cheapen this website by your bickering. Why should I post in the first place?

Can you just... ignore my theories, and stay away from this thread?

The Asian cultures were here in the Americas, I believe, thousands of years before Colombus, as were many other ocean-traveling cultures. The Western Hemisphere did not disappear for 10,000 years.

Tsuyoiko
06-03-06, 16:43
I can see a slight similarity in the names you give, but it could be coincidence. I'm not sure what you mean when you say they are 'Atlantean' names.

Mycernius
06-03-06, 17:49
There are probably some similarities between names and words in the Americas that are of Asian origin, but I do not think that they are from Atlantis. More likely from humans who crossed from Asia during the ice age into the Americas. Others are just mere coincidence. You have a large number of words making up all languages. Despite distance humans do pretty much make the same vocal sounds, so I wouldn't find it unusual for words to appear to be pronounced the same over vast distances. I'm sure you'll find words that sound similar in South Africa.

EdZiomek
06-03-06, 18:36
Yes, it may be coincidental, and totally independent.

I would want to present the theories, ideas, icons, as touristy observations, not academic or scientific "meanings".

The names from the Davalos/Aparicio tourist map, owned by the City of Mexico City, compiled in 1973...

Atlatzinco
Atlauntenco
Atlaco
Atlacualco
Atlanco
Atlacuinuayan
Atlazolpa
Atlapulco
Atlipac
Atoyac

Mycernius
06-03-06, 20:32
What is your point with these names? The Atla, or in case of the last At, could just point to a landmark or persons name such as Tor means a hill. For example English place names:
Ashill
Ashley
Ashen
Ashford
Ashbourne
Ash
Ashill
Ashwell
You could do this in a number of countries. It doesn't point to an ancient civilisation, just how places were named after a person, type of industry or geographical features. IMHO I think you are trying to read to much into these names and places.
All archelogical research show that humans started off in Africa, which probably means that the first use of language amoung these first men was the same. As humans spread across the world language developed first from dialects into new languages. The further from the source the more diverse the language. The Biblical myth of the tower of Babel comes to mind.

Edit: Just to add . What is your personal belief on the subject of Atlantis and it's effect on human civilisation? I am asking because you seem to believe in the existance of such a place and it would clarify a few points for me on the nature of your observations and their contribution to your arguments.

bossel
07-03-06, 04:37
We have discussed my amateur limitations before.
Shouldn't that be an incentive to improve your historical & linguistic skills?


I have given you example after example of books printed about the probable, possible, plausible connections among the continents in the ancient world.
& I have read (admittedly when I was younger) a lot of books & articles about this stuff. But this is an online discussion forum. Stress being on discussion. If you don't want your ideas to be discussed, why post them in the 1st place?


Can I ask you to just... NOT POST on my thread, and let me present to the 1000 other viewers these iconic symbolism, without your constant, and unanimous disagreements?
Asking is free. My response is uncertain, though. :bluush: Because if you post something I strongly disagree with, I may feel a strong urge to make that disagreement public.


In my heart, Mr. Bossell, you kill threads with your opinion, that all my opinions and theories and guesswork, do not meet your scientific standards, in your self-annointed estimations.
Self-anointed? Oh, no, I readily admit my amateurish criticism. :bluush: (again)
Re. most of the languages you talk about I'm just as unknowing as you (well almost). Yet I am able to find dictionaries & explanations which you are often either oblivious or ignorant about. IMO, you could be able to present much better versions of your ideas if you actually took the time to gain some background knowledge in eg. linguistics.


Your theories, versus my theories.
Sorry, but I don't really have anything like a theory about Atlantis. I'm still waiting for some convincing evidence that it existed & where it was.


The Asian cultures were here in the Americas, I believe, thousands of years before Colombus, as were many other ocean-traveling cultures.
There is some evidence for sporadic trans-oceanic contact to the Americas, but there is no evidence that this was due to one particular (Atlantean, if you want) culture.


The Western Hemisphere did not disappear for 10,000 years.
Of course not. That impression is only due to the former ignorance of historical science, which largely ignored the Amerindian cultural achievements.
What many people nowadays do is actually very close to this ignorance: they allege that the Indians were unable to create these cultures by themselves & that they needed help from the outside to build them.

I'm very interested in history, Atlantis & pre-Columbian American cultures. If you have any ideas or "theories" about this stuff, please post them. But I can't promise that I won't criticise your posts if I disagree with your ideas.

Barros Serrano
08-07-09, 21:37
While I would never discourage anyone from pursuing any possibilities regarding human history... since that's how we come up with new ideas and sometimes good ones... there are some caveats to postulating outside influences in America.

Keep in mind that the Europeans in North America made up all sorts of inventive stories to explain the mounds in the east. They were built by Phoenicians, the lost tribes of Israel, the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Romans... ANYONE but Native Americans. To his credit, it was Thomas Jefferson who first seriously argued that they were built by NATIVE AMERICANS, the same Natives present today, based on his own archaeological investigations.

Now there are Afrocentrics claiming that the Olmecs were black, the mounds were built by Africans, etc.

The problem with these ideas is that they are inherently racist. They are presupposing that the Native Americans were not capable of creating civilizations in the same way Europeans/Africans are. Somehow those poor dumb savages just couldn't have managed it without outside help.

So... this has to be kept in mind. The origins of the Olmecs are now known, and they are from MEXICO!

I will comment, having said that, that I find that it is interesting that the ocean between America and Europe/Africa is named ATLANTIC; given that atl is the Nahuatl word for "water"...

So far the only PROOF of visitations from elsewhere are a failed Viking settlement in 1000 CE, and a Chinese ship which reached S America about 8 decades before Columbus reached the Caribbean.