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Mycernius
20-04-06, 20:48
I was wondering (maybe I have too much spare time on the road) how did you come too our set of beliefs? What made you become a Christian/Atheist/ Muslim/etc, or are you still searching?
My own belief started when I was about 11 or 12. Up to that point God was something that I believed in in some thought, but then I started reading more and more on the question of beliefs. I always had a interest in myths, especially Greek and Roman. At this time I started to ask if the greeks believed in thier Gods why do we see them as wrong in todays society? Fortunately my parents were never over religious, so it was never forced down my throat. Also at about that age you start to go into rebellious mode and you start to question all sorts of things. There was the phase of going against God and being more a devil person, but that was just as bad as being a God person. To follow a diety, whether good or bad seemed wrong to me. By the time I was 14 I was more or less an atheist. What led me here was the illogicality of religion and the way seemingly reasonable, intelligent people could lose there sense of reality when faced with what I started to see as an advanced form of superstition. Along with an interest in astronomy and some parts of physics and a mind that, despite some abnormalities, prefers logic over superstition and the natural cynic in me has led to where I am now. I have become more and more convinced on the non-existance of God and that the universe, whist being a fantasic and mysterous place, is natural. There is also a part of me that excepts the reality that the universe is so huge that only my ego thinks that humans have a special place in it (maybe something to be discussed at another time). Whether it changes as I get older I don't know and it would be arrogant of me to say that I will never change, but I am currently happy with my beliefs as they stand now.
What about you?

RockLee
20-04-06, 20:59
I don't believe, and it doesn't make me any worse than somebody who does. I think I dislike religion because of the fact how they want to cram it up your throat from childhood starting.

I love myths and have appreciation for religious things, but I do not tolerate extremism. Religion is connected to a lot of historical things, but I believe it's all a big hoax.

That's about it.

Revenant
20-04-06, 21:21
I was brought up in a Seventh Day Adventist home, and attended church every week. I also went to an interdenominational school from K-10, and was taught Bible class three times a week as well as Creationism (evolution was quickly glossed over). I just accepted creationism and the beliefs as true.

It was when I came online a couple years ago that I noticed a lot of people bashing Christianity. Some of the bashings I felt were entirely unfounded, so I set about defending my faith. During these debates I understood people's frustration with Christianity, and it was also during this time that after debating creationism, I decided to look up some facts to argue my case. I couldn't find any non-biased sites that supported creationism, and the more I looked into it, the more evolution made sense. I then gave up Creationism for a more liberal Christians view of evolution as God's entire plan.

Upon studying the Bible, I found that some of the parables and prophecies were of zero help to me. They meant absolutely nothing, so I reasoned that regardless of what was in store in the future, or what the few mysterious parables meant, that a Christian was to act in accordance with the sum of the law and the prophets. The various passages in the New Testament that told a Christian to rid oneself of anger, clothe oneself in compassion, tolerance, humility, etc, seemed practical in fulfilling the sum of the law and the prophets. So I studied carefully how all these traits were interconnected with the sum of the law and the prophets.

On another search, I was always reading self-help books, as for some time, I was constantly depressed. I picked up Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman, and found his book to be of great help, so when I found another book written by him Destructive Emotions - And How We Can Overcome Them (a dialogue with the Dalai Lama), I was interested. I found the book went into Buddhist reasoning of the emotions, and that Buddhism made it far clearer as to the benefits and reasons one was to take certain emotions on, or get rid of other emotions.

It also caused me to question how a God of love could send people to hell. It made no sense in a God empathising with those suffering in hell, when he had the power to end their suffering. I also couldn't connect the law of love and the law against homosexuality, and among so many other question, I thought Christianity was doing me more harm than good. I was just confuzzled through and through. So I gave it up.

So, now I am agnostic with leanings towards Buddhist teachings (rebirth however makes no sense to me). More would I say I like Buddhist philosophy, and also Buddhist meditations, but I don't want to subscribe to a belief system. I would rather just choose what I like from the various philosophies and religious traditions, and leave those things that make no sense to me.

d3jake
20-04-06, 23:27
By the time I was 14 I was more or less an atheist. What led me here was the illogicality of religion and the way seemingly reasonable, intelligent people could lose there sense of reality when faced with what I started to see as an advanced form of superstition. Along with an interest in astronomy and some parts of physics and a mind that, despite some abnormalities, prefers logic over superstition and the natural cynic in me has led to where I am now. I have become more and more convinced on the non-existance of God and that the universe, whist being a fantasic and mysterous place, is natural.

That's basicly where I am now...with a few adjustments.
I only believe in things that can be proven in a controlled environment. Can you prove god exists? From what I understand (and this could well be wrong) God is the faith within himself, if you have faith in him, he exists. But the thing is, if God is faith within himself, and you prove he exists...well....you don't have to have faith in him because he exists, therefore he doesn't exist... :blush:

Mars Man
21-04-06, 05:06
Now, now...Mycernius san, this is also a great question-opening thread, and an invitation for me to write another book...:giggle: :p

Seriously folks, I could put a whole lot of words down on this one, but then...well, I'll be brief. (some of you may know already from what I've said in the past.)

My mother's father was a Methodist circuit preacher. Both my parents were quite into the church. (my father later became a certified lay pastor) Us kids had NO choce really. (although when in high school, I'd sometimes skip the sermon (we didn't have to sit together) and go down to the local book store and look at the latest Playboy)

But, then, near the end of high school, I became quite involved all of a sudden in the Billy Graham movement (my grandfather was a Graham, and loved the guy.) and went to some 'One Way' movement stuff. I started reading the NT everyday.

Now, also strangely enough (as I am just a strange person, I guess) just before that I had started looking into Hinduism and the Krishna movement. (I was teaching myself Hindi at the moment) I had accquired a MahaBharata and a Bhagavadgita, and was reading some of the Sanskit texts.

Now after entering college, I did a paper on Buddhism, and so had to do the research for that. My Christian side weakened a bit, you could say, during those early college days--being away from home may have been part of it. I even did a little bit of the 'Namyoho renge kyo' stuff for a while with some girls and a Chinese guy from the restaurant where I had worked in Pheonix.

After college and my first marriage, I went back into studying the Bible again after discussing some things with some from the Watchtower Society (Jehovah's Witnesses). It revived that old emotional high I had had back in late highschool. (maybe there had simply been some longing there?)

But some of the things the WS (Watchtower Society) was saying rang so true to things I had earlier been enlightened to (in my way of saying it) such as the conviction that in death there would surely be no consciousness. (That idea had hit me one night when I was out in the country 'meditating' (so to speak, not really though) on the starry sky back in junior high school)

to be continued. . .

Mars Man
21-04-06, 05:27
If the above post of mine has not been read first, please do that for continuity

[commercial break...Does your toothpaste taste like toothpaste? If not try...]

Well, . . . I associated with them for some three years, going into deeper and deeper study--involving the original languages, the recensions and original language texts, biblical history, etc.

After a while I seemed to hit upon some snags which I brought before those in charge (Brooklyn, NY). For another three years, I argued my understanding and case before them to absolutely no avail !! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

So, to sum it all up, in a few words, there were a lot of other things that went into my getting where I am, not mentioned here, but with all of this I am agnostic. I also have a concept of a scientific-religiosity, a mode in which to be religious, with all the universal concepts that can be found in the 'pool' from which all the belief-systems have gotten them, without having to affirm the elements of those old belief-systems which are not from that 'pool'. the end:relief:

Ma Cherie
21-04-06, 07:08
As far as I can remember I was forced to attend church. I do come from a religious background. My family awhile back were Catholic then somewhere along the line they decided to become Baptist. However, now some members of my family are hardly religious, except for my mother. She became a member of the Penticostal denomination. I was forced to dress a certian way, I could no longer wear pants and I couldn't wear make up. And on top of that, I was not allowed to wear jewellery. I hated this, because it was forced upon me. I hated going to church every Sunday and I had to go to Sunday school with these obnoxious kids who would qoute the Bible everytime they saw another student doing something wrong.
I didn't like how these kids already knew how to cast judgment on others. I mean, they were no more than 8-9 years old. :souka: I kept quiet most of the time. When I did say something, I was usually rude. I know I shouldn't have behaved like this, but I wanted to show how much I hated being there. I hated being forced to sing in the choir, I hated participating in Christmas plays. I was thinking, "it's bad enough you're forcing me to go to church, now you have to make me do stuff within the church!" :mad:
As I go older, I began to see alot of hypocrisy within the church. And yet, they would cast judgment on people who weren't "in church."

I came to the relization that, the people I met who weren't Christians weren't doing the things some of the memebers of my former church were doing. And I didn't believe certian things in the Bible. However, I knew in my heart that I believed in God. You could call me a deist. I think I said this before, :? but I believe that reason and logic are supposed to help mankind. Because I really don't believe in turning to a religious text to show me what's right or wrong.

With all the hypcritical behavior I've seen, I came to believe we must follow our own conscisousness.

Well, that's it for now. :relief:

mad pierrot
21-04-06, 08:13
That's what led me to my current beliefs. Which, in fact, I still do question.

Tsuyoiko
21-04-06, 11:33
Good question!. I already answered it somewhere else - here is what I said:

Perhaps you can briefly explain how you arrived at this point in your spiritual journey. You seem pretty balanced as an individual-- and what helped you arrive at your system of beliefs?I just found this essay (http://www.religioustolerance.org/tolk01.htm). This guy's spiritual journey is similar to mine. It differs on a few points, but some are scarily similar, for example:
Although there were many things that I didnft (and donft) understand in the world, none of them directly suggested that there was a magical entity controlling them. Also, the notion that a simple, insignificant creature like myself could communicate directly with an almighty creator struck me as terribly arrogant.
Later, I began to envision gods as aspects of myself – the good, the bad, the loving, the warlike, the wise, the impetuous, etc.In my pagan phase, my personal gods were Thoth, since my love of knowledge and learning is so important, and Hecate, since I felt that her experience and wisdom were something I needed to develop.
I began to try to remove the abstraction that had been introduced through the incorporation of gods into my life. I accomplished this by carefully examining the gods I knew and trying to identify why I needed them...As I got to know myself better, I found that I no longer needed abstract figures to guide me through life
The point that we must decide for ourselves is whether suffering is part of some divine plan put in place to test our resolve, or just a natural side effect of growth.I read some Buddhism and Nietzsche :blush:
For example, it takes a less well-developed social conscience to tell the truth because God demands it than to tell the truth out of a desire to live in a trusting society.This was one of the first nails in the coffin lid of my Christianity. At the age of 12 I was told that if I gave my life to Jesus, he would be responsible for me and my sins would be forgiven. I wanted to take that responsibility for myself.
It is those of us that believe that our roles in the world define us and that act out of a desire to see the world improve without any promise of reward or threat of punishment that truly learn to love the world.
Gods are unnecessaryThis was the final nail. I came to a point where everything I understood made sense without any need for a superior entity. Since I'm a bit of a minimalist, I thought, why hang onto something I don't need.
A few other points that led to my rejection of Christianity:

I simply can't believe that any design went into Nature. If so, it is shoddy workmanship. Sometimes I feel so sh1tty, and when I ask why, I just can't believe that something made me this way intentionally. But if I think, this feeling sh1tty doesn't interfere with my ability to survive long enough to reproduce, it starts to make sense, and I feel reassured.

The idea that what you believe matters makes no sense to me. Any being capable of creating the universe wouldn't give a damn what I thought.

When I read the whole of Genesis for a badge in Girl Guides I was apalled by it. Genesis 19:32-38 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen019.html#32), where a couple of girls get their father drunk so they could get pregnant by him, was very disturbing to me at the age of 12.

Hope this answers your question Sabro. I'm sorry it got long-winded :blush:

I would only add to that that, like MP, I am still questioning. But now, it feels more like fine tuning and I doubt there will be any great revolution in what I believe. For the first time it feels 'right'.

mapusyaw
21-04-06, 16:37
i was schooled in catholic schools and my parents are both catholic but they weren't exactly religious. our family have been invited to different churches but never really stayed in one. when i entered puberty, angst started to set in and that's when i started to ask the "BIG" questions. it was frustrating and i felt guilty questioning the existence of god and my religion and all that stuff since RC considers it a grave sin.

it also didn't help when i found out that some of my relatives were shamans--another no no in catholicism. imagine my confusion.

i love reading the bible (until now actually) but some things just don't add up.

things only started to become clear when i entered college. fortunately, the university where i am studying ain't like any other catholic schools i've been to. our theology employs exegesis and was very rooted to reality when it came to discussing the problems being encountered in said religion.

aside from that, i did a self-study of comparative religion and have met different people from different religious backgrounds who are open to discussions. but everything would have not come into place without the continuous reflection and analyzation.

i still write RC in filling out the religion part in any document but i've long parted with it in beliefs. this however was not prompted with regret or bitterness nor a result of frustration. i just discovered my OWN truth.
***
my classmates and i were discussing what novels are a good read. one of my classmates said "try angels and demons. it'll test your faith"

my instructor butted in "you know what book will truly test your faith? Read the Bible!"
***
i'm not anti-Christian. it will forever be dear to me but there are a lot of things i can do without.

No-name
21-04-06, 18:34
God found me. Tackled me and put me in a bear hug I couldn't get out of...it was an answer out of the clear blue...to a question I did not even know I was asking. Nothing about being "responsible for me." No religious dogma, no rules and regulations, no robes or candles or tradition and no one told me I had to...It was nothing I did or found...It was God finding me...and something coming alive inside me where before it was empty. Definitely an epiphany: A living God... loving and forgiving me!

Clawn
22-04-06, 18:34
My mother is a Catholic, my father is a Lutheran. We never really discussed or discuss religion all that often in our household. Then, one day, I went with a very good friend of mine to a "Christian Camp." I went simply to have fun, hang around with friends, and whatnot. That week changed my life into what I believe now. I am a Christian.

d3jake
22-04-06, 20:42
I say power to those who have faith in a religon. They have something to believe in, something that other people can't take away.

Sensuikan San
29-04-06, 05:12
Cynicism and skepicism, mainly.

W

Mitsuo
04-05-06, 01:38
I have a religiously diverse family.

I have buddhists in my family, I have catholics, I have Mormons, I have presbytarians, and I have a cousin who converted to Judaism.

I grew up in a family where it didn't matter what we believed in. My Dad is Buddhist, and my Mom is just a non-religious christian. They both believe that we should do research and decide if we want a religion or not. So that's what I did. I've tried going to church with friends, but waking up early on my favorite day to sleep in and sitting with people that I don't really want to know isn't really my cup of tea. My oldest sister ended up getting Baptized into the Mormon Religion due to Peer Pressure. But she denies ever becoming Mormon.
I however, decided that I wasn't going to be brainwashed into a certain religion. I did my research and had my share of debates and normal conversations about God. So I don't call myself anything. I believe in God, so I guess in a way I am considered a christian. But I really am more spiritual than I am religious.

Since I live in Utah, I am always getting people trying to convert me to the LDS. I just say NO THANKS! With a Big fat NO.
My beliefs on the Bible are on different threads. But to be brief. I find it to be nothing but a book of morals and lessons, with a lot of symbolism taken too seriously. But that's my opinion of course.
I fit more into agnostic, but I do believe in God. Just not the fearful God that the Bible endorses.

But if someone wants to believe in a certain religion, I think they should at least do some research, keep an open mind, and practice what they preach.

PRIZMATIC
14-05-06, 01:57
:blush: With " the belief " I was born...
I never was in need "in this or that belief ", accepted among people...
I only " use forms of these 粢・" for dialogue...
That there is my belief is possible to name "Zen" and it is "Zen"...
I never preached and did not impose " my the belief "...
I accept that "It" is for me... And all...
I outside of any "shows"...:sorry: :angel:

Maciamo
14-05-06, 11:23
My beliefs history is fairly similar to Mycernius. I was raised in a Catholic environment. Although my parents were not very religious (and now not at all), I was made to go to catechism classes after school (when I was 6), because all other children in my class also went there. We already had compulsory religion (read "Catholicism") classes at school.

What I heard about god, etc. at school and in catechism first got me interested. They managed to induce in me that fear of the omnisciennt and omnipotent god that watches over my every action and thought. I think that I have kept of this my utter dislike of lies, cheating or harming others, because of the fear of divine punishment I got used to at that early age.

But the purity of my heart and my genuine efforts to behave like a saint (or better if possible ;-) ) and be a good little boy getting good grades, helping others and minding my own business otherwise, quickly led me to question the veracity of my religious education. Why would God punish me by hurting me physically or psychologically (e.g. falling while playing, being bullied, etc.) for doing the best I can and visibly be a better person than my school comrades ? Why would some teachers dislike me even when I was more attentive and respectful in class than anybody else ? I sincerely believed that if I acted well, God would reward me and avoid me suffering. It did not happen.

I questioned God in my head, and never got any answered. This time it was God himself (I was taught he was a man at first) that was ignoring me and making me suffer. What did I do wrong ? So I tried even harder to do my daily good deeds. I remember that during Lent, we were told by the religious teacher not to eat sweets and try to make as many good deeds per day as possible. We had to draw a sheet with a path with 40 stages, representing Jesus' 40 days in the desert. We had to decide every night before going to bed whether we had been "good", "not so good" or "bad" that day, and draw the square for each day accordingly in green, orange and red (I was still 6 years old). As I did try my best, and was clearly more motivated to try hard (as for everything else) than my class mates, I got more green squares than almost everyone. This led the religion teacher to criticise me and doubt of my sincerity. She kind of ridiculed me in front of the class, which only got me more bullied later. At confession at church (we were also forced to go during catechsim), I asked the priest why God would punish me for acting well. His anwers were not clear at all, and even contradictory to the reality. The more I questioned and explained my case, the more he got annoyed by my question. So did the catechism teachers and my religion teacher. I never ceased to question the "theory" as opposed to the "reality" from that time on.

Like Mycernius I also learned about Greco-Romans gods, then other religions' gods. As I had compulsory religion classes for the whole 12 years of my compulsory education, I had a lot of opportunities to discuss with "professional" teachers of the word of god about any of my doubts or contradictions in the learning of the Bible. In fact, I even had a Jesuit priest as my religion teachers later on. It naturally didn't take me 12 years to become at first agnostic (since the age of 6 or 7), then deist (since the age of 15). I only consider myself an atheist since the age of 17/18.

In fact, the more I learned about Christianity, the more I found serious inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible (like strongvoiceforward loved to remind us). The more I learned about history, the more I saw a connection between religion and evil (inquisition of beliefs, fear, mutual hatred, wars...). The more I learned about various religions and human psychology, the more I understood the patterns and how man-made religion all were.

I started my metaphysical studies when I was 10/11. This gave me plenty of time to oppose Metaphysics to Catholicism in the religion classes at school (it sounded a bit like the discussions between SVF and Sabro in the last few months). This is when my teachers stopped teaching that god was a man, but was a shapeless "entity", and that heaven was not in the sky or somewhere in the universe, but in "another dimension". It's funny to see how the more my questions became mature for a child, the more the answers changed and contradicted totally what I had been taught before. This made me understand the sheer hypocrisy of the Catholic Church. So what could be worse for the good little boy than I was then, trying my best to act like a saint, to hear that some of the worst sins I was taught to avoid, lies, deception, cheating, manipulating, hurting people's feelings, were all part and parcel of the Christian mindset ? From that time one, I decided that I didn't want to be called a Christian anymore. I refused to do my Communion at age 12 (I was the only one in my class not to do it, as the other were still indoctrinated), standing for the first real time against my family and teachers in matters of religion (I had questioned a lot, but not really opposed them vehemently before).

In some ways, we could say that my beliefs then as an Agnosticist were closer to those of some liberal Protestant Christians. I rejected the organisation of the Catholic Church, held it responsible for manipulating people for its own profit, imposing illogical and contradictory rules, etc. I had no knowledge of Protestantism at that time yet (I was 12 at the time, and raised in a 100% Catholic environment). I quickly dismissed the Bible itself, when I started comparing the OT and the NT, then compared it to other religions. I had started my fight against Christianity, which continued during my years in secondary school. I was lucky to have the best opponent the Catholic Church had to propose, Jesuit priests (war-machine made to convert the infidels by the vilest stratagems and highest hypocrisy). Then only ended up converting from agnosticism to deism then atheism. Thanks !


P.S. : One of the things I have inherited from the Christian upbringing is to believe that there is only one truth in matters of religion/philosophy. This is why I cannot be religious, as it would mean choosing one religion over another, despite the fact that they all contradict each others on some points, and one point wrong destroys a whole religion. A good example within Christianity is how the various denominations of Christians disagree about the Trinity and the character of Jesus himself (just a man, god himself, the son of god... ?). What philosophy taught me is that there is no universal truth regarding morals or the concepts of good and evil. Thanks Einstein on this one for his teaching on relativity (which I first came into contact with when I was 11).

As for the question of the possibility of the existence of a god or supreme being (what made me jump from Deist to Atheist), the answer came from pure logics, as I have explained in several threads on this forum (e.g. here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=292750&postcount=3) and here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20243)) .

PRIZMATIC
15-05-06, 00:02
Reflection in hearing::clueless:
:blush: From read I have understood -
Actually Maciamo " did not leave anywhere the God "...
... "Which" has kept him from " imaginary light "...
But in "becoming" Maciamo "has taken a great interest" in this "struggle" and has not noticed, how itself began similar to from whom he " was kept by the God "...
"Those" were at war with him, "He" now is at war with "them"...
These are "fruits" of one tree...
...........................................
When he be tired from " these wars in the consciousness " it is possible he and will hear " rhythms of the God of a life " in Chaos of their the ideas and feelings...
I hope...:angel:

himagain
20-01-12, 04:49
I was led to my beliefs by reason. I do honor all other beliefs. My belief is
that organized religions purpose is control, ether benevolent or self-serving.

Riccardo
02-04-12, 16:51
I grow up in a secular context, my family, my school, the background...My mother is Christian, my father is Atheist. I never went to the church and all elder people close to me let me free to think what I considered appropriate. When I was a teenager I didn't think about it so much, now I consider myself "non-believer".

American Idiot
23-11-13, 20:35
common sense and life experience has lead me to my current beliefs......so obviously I dont believe in any organized religion.

LeBrok
23-11-13, 21:05
common sense and life experience has lead me to my current beliefs......so obviously I dont believe in any organized religion.
Organized religions exist. ;)
It is so much easier to prove existence of a religion than if their beliefs are true.

Dinarid
27-05-16, 03:13
Part is natural for me. I always grew up believing in God and the Afterlife, and the thought of no God or Afterlife is horrible to me, and impractical. I see more evidence to support my beliefs as time goes on. I don't want to consider myself close-minded, but to me nihilism is so ugly that I will not consider it. I see inherent benefits in believing.

BackToTheForests
22-05-17, 19:26
I was raised as a Lutheran and was happy with it as a boy, I was a bit naive about the world outside of my small ethnic enclave. It would infuriate me if anyone spoke ill of religion. As I got more involved in the political side of life I became unhappy with many church policies (taking care of people in nations that have no relation to my own, the push for lax immigration policies, and bringing "refugees" in themselves). I then rejected the church, I would not be involved in an organization that I couldn't whole-heartedly believe in and searched for what felt natural. I arrived at Odalism and have been happier for it.

MarkoZ
23-05-17, 17:50
I arrived at Odalism and have been happier for it.


You cannot be serious.

Angela
23-05-17, 18:01
Absolutely unbelievable. I don't even have words.

BackToTheForests
23-05-17, 18:56
You cannot be serious.

Is there a problem with this or are you biased due to certain sensitivities?

BackToTheForests
23-05-17, 19:10
Absolutely unbelievable. I don't even have words.

If this is directed towards me I can only assume that you are conflating Odalism with racism, which is an unfair assumption. Nationalism should not be confused with racism, either, I do not believe in a "white" America but I do not agree with importing immigrants (even Europeans) until every able-bodied American is employed and every American citizen thriving. If I can clear anything else up ask away.

Angela
23-05-17, 19:25
Even if I ignore any possible racial overtones, I am appalled at the absolute stupidity and the total ignorance of population genetics of whoever created this abomination. I would suggest you do some intensive reading using our search engine.

BackToTheForests
23-05-17, 19:33
Even if I ignore any possible racial overtones, I am appalled at the absolute stupidity and the total ignorance of population genetics of whoever created this abomination. I would suggest you do some intensive reading using our search engine.

Would you say that all Muslims are terrorists? Your response is on the same level of critical thinking. Perhaps you should add an argument in there instead of an ad-hom attack (the mark of ignorance).

MarkoZ
23-05-17, 19:36
Even if I ignore any possible racial overtones, I am appalled at the absolute stupidity and the total ignorance of population genetics of whoever created this abomination.

The creator would be Varg Vikernes, a Norwegian neo-nazi and convicted murderer.

BackToTheForests
23-05-17, 20:18
The creator would be Varg Vikernes, a Norwegian neo-nazi and convicted murderer.

Varg Vikernes is not a neo-Nazi, you are willingly posting flat-out lies.

Beelzebub
23-05-17, 20:18
I have no answers as to what happens when you die.
That said, I refuse to cling to fairy-tales to ease my fear of death.
I believe in science and reason.
The more I look at mainstream religion, the more skeptical I get.
Even the dates of the birth and crucifixion of "Jesus" are nothing more than the spring equinox and winter solstice.
Even hallmarks associated with Judaism like circumcision and the Ten commandments were just copied from the ancient Egyptians.
The "Jesus" myth is quite similar to Zeus/Jupiter and his demigod son of a mortal women stories, and would have been very familiar to Greeks and Romans.

MarkoZ
23-05-17, 20:39
Varg Vikernes is not a neo-Nazi, you are willingly posting flat-out lies.

Well, he's an admirer of Hitler and has been on record peddling racial pseudoscience & promoting Nordicist eugenics for decades. The label captures his ideology quite well, even if the man himself doesn't like it.

BackToTheForests
23-05-17, 20:47
Well, he's an admirer of Hitler and has been on record peddling racial pseudoscience & promoting Nordicist eugenics for decades. The label captures his ideology quite well, even if the man himself doesn't like it.

Being pro-European is akin to Nazism now? We will have to agree to disagree but labeling anyone that chooses Neopaganism as a racist only does a disservice to everyone, for it is not based on fact but propaganda and feelings.

MarkoZ
23-05-17, 20:55
Being pro-European is akin to Nazism now? We will have to agree to disagree but labeling anyone that chooses Neopaganism as a racist only does a disservice to everyone, for it is not based on fact but propaganda and feelings.

Admiration of Hitler is akin to Nazism. Well unless it's a grudging kind of admiration as expressed by Stalin perhaps.

I don't know what 'pro-European' means.

BackToTheForests
23-05-17, 21:05
Admiration of Hitler is akin to Nazism. Well unless it's a grudging kind of admiration as expressed by Stalin perhaps.

I don't know what 'pro-European' means.

I do not know his views on Hitler but admiring someone is not akin to Nazism, as I could say that I admire Che Guevara but that does not make me a Marxist. "Pro-European" simply means favoring a shared heritage the same as someone could be called "Afrocentric". We may be beating our heads against a wall here.

MarkoZ
23-05-17, 21:14
I do not know his views on Hitler but admiring someone is not akin to Nazism, as I could say that I admire Che Guevara but that does not make me a Marxist. "Pro-European" simply means favoring a shared heritage the same as someone could be called "Afrocentric". We may be beating our heads against a wall here.

Let's see, we're talking about someone who (i) subscribes to highly pseudoscientific theories of European autochthony, (ii) promotes eugenics to increase the numbers of blond, blue-eyed people, (iii) looks up to Hitler, Himmler, Quisling. I'd think most normal people wouldn't object to the neo-nazi label.

I'm not trying to insult you, but do you have Asperger's per chance?

BackToTheForests
23-05-17, 21:27
Let's see, we're talking about someone who (i) subscribes to highly pseudoscientific theories of European autochthony, (ii) promotes eugenics to increase the numbers of blond, blue-eyed people, (iii) looks up to Hitler, Himmler, Quisling. I'd think most normal people wouldn't object to the neo-nazi label.

I'm not trying to insult you, but do you have Asperger's per chance?

>I'm not trying to insult you
>calls me retarded

Since you display a level of discourse more at home on 4chan this will be my last sincere response to you.

MarkoZ
23-05-17, 22:11
>I'm not trying to insult you
>calls me retarded

Since you display a level of discourse more at home on 4chan this will be my last sincere response to you.

Look, I apologize. Still, I find it baffling that you'd be surprised your following of Vikernes might just raise some eyebrows.

It's impossible to debate the merits of his ideology when there are none. Last I checked the man believed Scandinavians derive 99% of their ancestry from Neanderthals. What did you expect in terms of discourse?

Diomedes
23-05-17, 22:21
Christianity is a copy/paste of Mithraism (adopted by the Roman militia) and Zoroastrism. Just check Zoroaster and his father Ahura-Mazda.

ΠΑΝΑΞ
23-05-17, 22:45
It was a poem from K.Palamas " the grave"
The problem was not the poem but my age... I was child at the begining of spelling to read...


My parents were not educated (no read, no write) they think that the best for me and my sister was to buy an big encyclopaedia...(but that one was more orintated for literature) I suppose they think that is the best for us. :wary2:
Anyway
the first day me and my sister take from one book,..


Kaboom...:petrified:
I was crying all night, I remember my mom trying to relief me with her kisses and her hugs...when I was asking -"Why ?" , I feared that I lose some day my mom... but i did not fear -cause i could't think,- mine death. :laughing:


My mother couldn't answer me... and my sister insisting me to shut up.
It was a shocking night which i still remember but not the only one... the years after.

but that's a story of another thread

Angela
23-05-17, 23:47
I'm going to say this once and once only. There is no place on this forum for links to, or discussions of, the philosophy of this notorious and obviously mentally challenged Neo-Nazi. Was that sufficiently clear, BackToTheForests?

Beelzebub
24-05-17, 00:03
Christianity is a copy/paste of Mithraism (adopted by the Roman militia) and Zoroastrism. Just check Zoroaster and his father Ahura-Mazda.
In my opinion Christianity is a Frankenstein monster of plagiarism and assimilation of local converted cultures and their native faiths.
It may very well early on have taken on major aspects of Zoroastrism and the Mithraic mysteries.
Catholicism the largest denotation of Christianity has morphed into something very different and is more akin to Neopaganism.

Yetos
24-05-17, 03:08
hmm

TO BE LED? OR NOT TO BE LED?

Rene Descartes says 'cogito ergo sum' I think up, so I exist

Albert Camus centuries after speaks about Absurd, I never understand what Absurd is
BUT I find him (his life and writtens) to add something to Descartes, the revolt,
I REVOLT, SO I CAN THINK up, SO I EXIST,

so for Descartes is just I THINK UP, to exist
why Camus puts I revolt? and revolt against who?

for the same reason we all do.

so some of us choose not to be LED

the then starts all,
and among all was Parmenidis of Elea
and then ,, and then to Nemesis

as for christinity?
the roots is not Mithras, neither Judean,
maybe older forms
But modern christianity is nothing more than the eternal fight
of Epikouros vs Stoics, on how you should live.
maybe the first christian Emperror was not Constantine, but Marcus Aurelius
as for the son of God,
is the old trick of Chrysippos,
God make world,
it was so perfect,
so he decide to live his creation from inside,
but he cheated the rules that he put in his creation,
so Nemesis awaits him, if he wants to exit his own creation,
cause he shamed his creation, Αιδως

at John 1:1 we see the word ΛΟΓΟΣ logos
John was a Stoic one?

offcourse the poor minds, are always Blessed and Happy

Twilight
24-05-17, 16:37
I'm going to say this once and once only. There is no place on this forum for links to, or discussions of, the philosophy of this notorious and obviously mentally challenged Neo-Nazi. Was that sufficiently clear, BackToTheForests?

Yikes, good to know about this Germanic Donomination. BacktotheForest, you have a right to switch religions but you might want to do your homework on the spiritual leaders and their reputation before practicing a new religion. Fortunately some Germanic spiritual leaders have a reputation of being Anti-Fascists so there are some alternatives. Here are some websites who have publicly denounced racism. Odin'svolk has been a useful source to reading about the Germanic tribes.


http://heathensunited.org/about-us/


http://odinsvolk.ca/new/ancestry/

I1a3_Young
31-05-17, 18:38
Some people cannot believe in the supernatural and some people must believe in something. In absence of positive beliefs they add harmful ideas, like the American neo-liberalism. (haha j/k)

I was raised protestant Christian but moved away from it during college. It is hard to be controlled and told "no" as a hot blooded young man. The reasons are mostly selfish. I didn't want to give time, money, etc to something rather boring.

However, I do acknowledge the practical benefits of a "good" church. It provides a positive atmosphere to raise a family with like-minded families. The culture is one of generosity, love, and positive fellowship. Not all churches are "good" churches. A "good" church not only takes care of themselves but also others. Charity by churches makes a significant impact on the world.

I don't have to attend church but it does make me feel good to be involved socially in this way, to make a positive difference in the lives of others. And what of children and others who "need" to believe in something? That is why I go.

I called myself a Christian, then an atheist, but now I attend Christian churches once more. There is something to be said for traditional wisdom and societal norms and I appreciate it more as I age. There are so many varied views within the large branch of Christianity that it can be daunting. It's inevitable that there are some branches worse than others and even some bad churches in the good branches. Each church is the sum of its congregation and led by certain leaders. I could say similar things about other religions if they were the majority of the society in which I found myself.

I'm fascinated by human superstition.

Źıun
31-05-17, 21:41
I am not religious but I do have my own belief system. It comes from becoming more scientific minded and then leaving science itself to go beyond further.