PDA

View Full Version : How much of a Neanderthal are you ?



Maciamo
10-09-06, 12:01
I explained in this thread (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24126) that scientists have found numerous evidences that our Homo Sapiens ancestors from Africa intermingled to some extent with the indigenous Neanderthal of Europe and the Middle East. The strongest evidence of interbreeding were found in Eastern Europe, where the blond-haired and blue-eyed "Aryans" (Celts, Germans, Slavs...) originated before taking over the rest of Europe after the end of the Ice Age. It is thus possible that modern Europeans (and people of European descent) still have a tiny percentage of Neanderthal DNA, and thus also some physical characteristics of Neanderthal usually not found in other humans on the planet.

Wikipedia lists here the Neanderthal physical traits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal). As they are written in technical terms, let me rephrase below the ones that can easly be found by self-inspection. Please do not compare with your relatives as they are genetically similar to you.


- Occipital bun : a protuberance of the occipital bone (back of the head) that looks like a hair knot. You have it if you can feel a rounded bone just above the back of your neck (same height as the ears).

- Low, flat, elongated skull : What matters here is especially the "elongated skull", as opposed to the back of the skull being almost vertical, like East Asian people.

- Retromolar space posterior to the third molar : i.e. an empty space behind the "wisdom teeth".

- Supraorbital torus : protruding eyebrow bone (including big deep eye cavity between the eye and eyebrow).

- Bigger, rounder eyes than average.

- Broad, projecting nose : angle of the nose bone going more upward than average (not falling straight like a "Greek nose").

- Bony projections on the sides of the nasal opening : i.e. nose bone making a "triangle" between the nose and cheeks/orbits.

- Little or no protruding chin

- Larger mental foramen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_foramen) in mandible for facial blood supply : this means that the side jaw and cheek are bigger or better supplied in blood than average. This increased blood supply could result in the cheeks being red (like blushing) when doing physical exercise or when the weather is cold.

- Short, bowed shoulder blades : i.e. shoulder bones curving toward the front more than average.

- Large round finger tips : typically "flat" and wide finger tips, especially the thumb (e.g. if your thumb is more than 1.5 cm wide).

- Rufosity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rufosity) : i.e. having red hair, or brown hair with red pigments, or natural freckles.

- Fair skin, hair and eyes : Neanderthals are believed to have had blue or green eyes, as well as fair skin and light hair. Having spent 5x longer in northern latitudes than Homo Sapiens, it is only natural that Neanderthals should have developed these adaptive traits first, and that the first modern humans that arrived in Europe inherited the whole package through interbreeding.

Other details on the cranum shape or peculiarities are too difficult to examine by oneself for laymen, so we will limit our observations to the 12 above characteristics.

If you are a Caucasian (i.e. of European descent), how many of these physical traits do you have, and how marked are they ?

I have almost all of them, apart from the low, flat skull (it is in fact taller than average, although a bit elongated). I only have red hair in some parts of my body, but also a bit of natural freckles. My nose isn't broad, but slightly projecting.

The most obvious characteristics for me are the occipital bun, the broad and flat fingers, and the retromolar space (enough space for 2 more teeth behind my grown wisdom teeth !).

Kinsao
22-09-06, 12:24
Interesting! :D I have hardly any :souka:... I have a bit of a supraorbital torus :giggle: and big roundish eyes, as well as large flat fingertips (of the 'spatulate' kinda shape) but that's about all I think... :D

Maciamo
22-09-06, 14:05
I think that the "Neanderthal characteristics" are more obvious in Caucasians when compared to East Asian (e.g. Japanese) people. All the characteristics I have are much less marked than in actual Neanderthals, but they become apparent when I compare by body to the one of my Japanese wife, who doesn't have any such characteristics.

cross-platform
04-04-08, 21:17
I always like to joke with my girlfriend that I am part Neanderthal because I have the Occipital Bun and Supraorbital Torus. Now I can add my projecting nose onto the list. :-)

stuibhard
12-12-08, 00:21
Well, I've got freckles galore, red-blond hair, flat finger tips...but that's it.

Marianne
27-03-09, 14:33
I've got all the characteristics except for the round-flat finger tips.
My hair used to be a very light shade of white-blond when i was young but gradually it became darker as i was growing up and now it's a dark-warm shade of blond with red pigments, especially at sunlight they look even more red. My eyes are big and deep blue and u have to look very close to see my few freckles :P My cheeks are constantly rosy and i have a projecting nose.

Ive asked my parents and brother if they have those characteristics, cause I look nothing like them, and they have only 2-3 each.

Both my parents come from Crete, Greece.

Barros Serrano
09-07-09, 21:14
Now let's not get carried away... just because you share some trait with neandertals doesn't mean it is from the same gene. I do believe that the red-haired gene in H. sapiens has been identified as originating in a separate mutation from that of neandertals... so red hair therefore means nothing in terms of inter-species relationships.

I think it is at this point indisputable that hybrids were produced... the Czech and Portuguese examples notably indicate this. How much of that hybrid ancestry persisted and survived until the present is still an open question... so, this does not in itself prove that neandertal genes survive in any modern humans.

I had a student... I think about 8th grader... when I first saw him, my jaw dropped. He had the football-shaped braincase, the nose, the big eyes, the small forehead vs large face, and even a suggestion of heidelbergensis/neandertal type of arching browridges... and I was sitting there thinking NEANDERTAL!!!... I would have LOVED to have had his genome analyzed...

He was of Mexican ethnicity but very lightskinned and without noticeable Native traits, so I assume he was mostly of Spanish ancestry... and of course Iberia was the last refuge of neandertals...

Well this is very subjective and means nothing, but I swear, seeing that kid was one of the things that made me stop being a strict Out-of-Africa believer and acknowledge the possibility of some mixing which might have survived. My wife insists that she has known some neandertals... and she means literally, not in the colloquial sense...

We shall see...

Nicolas Peucelle
18-12-09, 17:41
You need to add to your lists of neanderthal caracteristics the teeth! Because they had very differently shaped teeth. The top of the molars had different fissures and contact points. Newest rays are able to screen the enamel of the teeth and also add to the knowledge of the differences in these neanderthal specific features, including the root chanels and the pulpa size.

Marianne
18-12-09, 17:46
This is very interesting!

Although, the problem is that it will be a bit hard for us forum members to compare :P

Cambrius (The Red)
18-12-09, 18:04
Only a few traits...

Sirius2b
18-12-09, 18:10
I think this is one of the cases, in which molecular genetics could be extremely useful.

I read not so long ago, that altough modern humans and Neanderthal co-existed in Europe, the hybridation between this groups was very, very small... and currently, it is thought that Neanderthals became extinct without significantly contributing at all, with the genetic of modern Europeans...



The process by which the Neanderthals were replaced by modern humans between 42,000 and 30,000 before present is still intriguing. Although no Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) lineage is found to date among several thousands of Europeans and in seven early modern Europeans, interbreeding rates as high as 25% could not be excluded between the two subspecies. In this study, we introduce a realistic model of the range expansion of early modern humans into Europe, and of their competition and potential admixture with local Neanderthals. Under this scenario, which explicitly models the dynamics of Neanderthals' replacement, we estimate that maximum interbreeding rates between the two populations should have been smaller than 0.1%. We indeed show that the absence of Neanderthal mtDNA sequences in Europe is compatible with at most 120 admixture events between the two populations despite a likely cohabitation time of more than 12,000 y. This extremely low number strongly suggests an almost complete sterility between Neanderthal females and modern human males, implying that the two populations were probably distinct biological species.


Source: http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0020421

Invictus_88
22-12-09, 02:49
Sorry, but doesn't everyone have a gap past their wisdom teeth?

And what's the research behind the blue-eyed and light/red haired Neanderthal speculation here?

Cambrius (The Red)
22-12-09, 03:53
The jury is still out on how much mixing there really was.

Nasturtium
26-12-09, 18:38
In 23andme, someone did some research and posted that Rs1864325, of the MAPT gene, was linked to possible Neanderthal DNA.

C = H1 homosapian line
T = H2 proposed Neanderthal line

I was disappointed to find mine was CC, but my looks do not suggest Neanderthal DNA. My son's is also CC, which surprised me since he shares his father's wide nose and heavy browridge, which looks remarkably like Neanderthal traits on Neanderthal models posted here on another thread.

The original post was about red curly hair. (I'm the only one with red-just highlights though)

Maciamo
27-12-09, 12:40
In 23andme, someone did some research and posted that Rs1864325, of the MAPT gene, was linked to possible Neanderthal DNA.

C = H1 homosapian line
T = H2 proposed Neanderthal line

I was disappointed to find mine was CC, but my looks do not suggest Neanderthal DNA. My son's is also CC, which surprised me since he shares his father's wide nose and heavy browridge, which looks remarkably like Neanderthal traits on Neanderthal models posted here on another thread.

The original post was about red curly hair. (I'm the only one with red-just highlights though)

According to the NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/SNP/snp_ref.cgi?rs=1864325), about 39% of Europeans have CT for this allele (no TT in the database so far). Asian and African populations have 100% of CC.

A single SNP doesn't mean much though. There are surely thousands of them inherited from Neanderthal (as opposed to 40,000 year-old Homo Sapiens).

The first full Neanderthal genome is not yet complete, and only a few hundreds modern people have had their whole genome tested. Unfortunately, even with one or several complete Neanderthal genomes available for comparison, there is no way of knowing what we inherited from them. We need to know what the genes of Middle Paleolithic Homo Sapiens (prior to the encounter with Neanderthal in Europe) looked like.

It is almost certain now that the first Homo Sapiens to penetrate in Europe had black skin, hair and eyes. So they were obviously genetically different from modern Europeans. Being hunter-gatherers they also lacked many mutations found in modern Europeans that allow to digest lactose, cope with the high-sugar diet of agricultural societies, and a long series of immune system adaptations to better resist new diseases that arose from life after domestication or in crowded cities.

It is not as simple as to say that we got x % of DNA from early Homo Sapiens and y % from Neanderthals. The total isn't 100%. So many new mutations arose just in the last 10,000 years (some useful, other with no effect) that it is very possible that something like 1 or 2% of the genome of a modern European would be at odd with both early Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals.

That's why I am eagerly waiting for early Homo Sapiens samples to have their genome sequenced.

Sprinkles
30-12-09, 01:44
Large occipital bun.

Neander
09-01-10, 17:18
I have these:

- Occipital bun
- Retromolar space posterior to the third molar
- Supraorbital torus
- Larger mental foramen in mandible for facial blood supply
- Rufosity (only when stay for a long time in sunny places)
- Fair skin
- Light eyes
- Bigger, rounder eyes than average.

Neander
09-01-10, 17:20
I dont understand these:

Short, bowed shoulder blades
Large round finger tips
Broad, projecting nose
Bony projections on the sides of the nasal opening

Have you any picture?

Nasturtium
09-01-10, 21:24
Has anyone debated this on this website?


http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm#RH

Personally, I find it intriguing though I can see how the evidence can be refuted. I'd like to know what other's think. I'd post it on 23andme but it's way too contraversial for that.

Beware...if you're easily offended, you may not want to read it.

Nasturtium
12-01-10, 17:56
Someone has recorded a TT for the SNP at 23andme. I don't know how to highlight someone's text...but Maciamo indicated there were no TT's in the database. There is one at 23andme!

Maciamo
13-01-10, 12:25
Has anyone debated this on this website?


http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm#RH

Personally, I find it intriguing though I can see how the evidence can be refuted. I'd like to know what other's think. I'd post it on 23andme but it's way too contraversial for that.

Beware...if you're easily offended, you may not want to read it.

There are some interesting ideas, but the author does not appear to be a specialist. Not much can prove these theories at the moment, except maybe things like a connection between Rhesus type and autism/asperger if enough data supports it. We can hypothesised that Neanderthal introduced Rh- (or hereditary psychological traits like OCD, schizophrenia, etc.) to the modern human gene pool, but we won't know until many Neanderthal (and contemporary Homo Sapiens) genomes are sequenced.

I believe that most geneticists at present are misled into searching for a connection between modern humans and "Western Neanderthals". They should be looking at the "Eastern" (Central Asian/Caucasian) Neanderthals instead.



Someone has recorded a TT for the SNP at 23andme. I don't know how to highlight someone's text...but Maciamo indicated there were no TT's in the database. There is one at 23andme!

Doesn't mean much. I was just saying that the NCBI database did not have individuals with the TT allele for that SNP, but the database only has a few hundred samples, not millions. It cannot accurately represent the whole population.

(NB : just click on "quote" to highlight someone else's text)

Neander
29-01-10, 10:01
Maybe Neander mtdna lineages are not present among us because of male inheritance of mtdna???

Male inheritance
It has been reported that mitochondria can occasionally be inherited from the father in some species such as mussels.[6][7] Paternally inherited mitochondria have additionally been reported in some insects such as fruit flies,[8] honeybees,[9] and periodical cicadas.[10]
Evidence supports rare instances of male mitochondrial inheritance in some mammals as well. Specifically, documented occurrences exist for mice,[11][12] where the male-inherited mitochondria was subsequently rejected. It has also been found in sheep,[13] and in cloned cattle.[14] It has been found in a single case in a human male and was linked to infertility.[15]
While many of these cases involve cloned embryos or subsequent rejection of the paternal mitochondria, others document in vivo inheritance and persistence under lab conditions.Wikipedia

Neander
29-01-10, 10:18
Another idea is that Neanderthals may have replaced their mtdna lineage through marrying with sapiens women in Near East during the first emigration of sapiens, and then the second migration of sapiens has replaced father lineage, through marrying with Neanderthal women??

Neander
04-02-10, 15:17
Maciamo, did you say that Mtdna Haplogroup X, may have been Neanderthal mother lineage???

Maciamo
05-02-10, 10:48
Maciamo, did you say that Mtdna Haplogroup X, may have been Neanderthal mother lineage???

That post is outdated. What I meant is that X is found in higher densities in cold and remote mountain areas, where the remnants of Neanderthals could have survived longer and interbred with Homo Sapiens. X itself surely isn't Neanderthalian but its early carriers may have interbred with Neanderthal. Just forget about it; aDNA would have spread to any other haplogroup fairly quickly.

rogers
12-03-10, 13:41
The latest news is that Neanderthals had the "talking gene" (FOXP2) before we did. So they reckon that humans got the ability for speach from Neanderthals. So in effect we all have some Neanderthal in us as we all can speak apart from some rare unfortunate individuals who have a muattion in FOXP2 that alters their ability for enunciation.

Eochaidh
25-03-10, 21:34
A new study which was just released, has found some mitochondrial DNA from the Altai Mountains and dated to about 40,000 years before the present which is neither Neanderthal nor Modern man.

This is the link: cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/03/24/2240236.aspx

Here is a snippet: "A DNA sample taken from an ancient pinky bone suggests that a previously unknown group of human ancestors mixed it up with Neanderthals and modern humans 40,000 years ago. Was it a completely different species? Too early to say, but it might depend on what your definition of "species" is.

The finding, published in this week's issue of the journal Nature, emerged from a check of DNA samples from Denisova Cave in southern Siberia's Altai Mountains. Anthropologists know that the cave was occupied by human ancestors off and on for at least 125,000 years, based on the artifacts and bits of bone found there.

The pinky bone was found in 2008, within a layer of material that has been dated to between 30,000 and 48,000 years ago. That's the precise time frame when both modern humans and Neanderthals inhabited the Altai Mountains.

Johannes Krause of Germany's Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology was surprised to discover that it didn't match either species.

The researchers ran the numbers (Mitochondrial DNA) for the pinky-bone sample, which they presume came from a young female nicknamed "X-Woman." They concluded that X-Woman's ancestors diverged from modern humans and Neanderthals about 1 million years ago. "

Shasta
21-04-10, 20:03
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100420/full/news.2010.194.html

Neanderthals may have interbred with humans
Genetic data points to ancient liaisons between species.

Rex Dalton


An interspecies love child?Christoph P.E. Zollikofer
Archaic humans such as Neanderthals may be gone but they're not forgotten — at least not in the human genome. A genetic analysis of nearly 2,000 people from around the world indicates that such extinct species interbred with the ancestors of modern humans twice, leaving their genes within the DNA of people today.

The discovery, presented at the annual meeting of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists in Albuquerque, New Mexico, on 17 April, adds important new details to the evolutionary history of the human species. And it may help explain the fate of the Neanderthals, who vanished from the fossil record about 30,000 years ago. "It means Neanderthals didn't completely disappear," says Jeffrey Long, a genetic anthropologist at the University of New Mexico, whose group conducted the analysis. There is a little bit of Neanderthal leftover in almost all humans, he says.

The researchers arrived at that conclusion by studying genetic data from 1,983 individuals from 99 populations in Africa, Europe, Asia, Oceania and the Americas. Sarah Joyce, a doctoral student working with Long, analyzed 614 microsatellite positions, which are sections of the genome that can be used like fingerprints. She then created an evolutionary tree to explain the observed genetic variation in microsatellites. The best way to explain that variation was if there were two periods of interbreeding between humans and an archaic species, such as Homo neanderthalensis or H. heidelbergensis.

"This is not what we expected to find," says Long.

Using projected rates of genetic mutation and data from the fossil record, the researchers suggest that the interbreeding happened about 60,000 years ago in the eastern Mediterranean and, more recently, about 45,000 years ago in eastern Asia. Those two events happened after the first H. sapiens had migrated out of Africa, says Long. His group didn't find evidence of interbreeding in the genomes of the modern African people included in the study.

The researchers suggest that the population from the first interbreeding went on to migrate to Europe, Asia and North America. Then the second interbreeding with an archaic population in eastern Asia further altered the genetic makeup of people in Oceania.

The talk at the anthropology meeting caught the attention of many researchers, some of whom have been trying to explain puzzling variations in the human genome. "They are onto something," says Noah Rosenberg, an anthropological geneticist at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, who heard the talk.

A test of the New Mexico team's proposals may come soon. Svante Pääbo and colleagues at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, announced early last year that they had finished sequencing a first draft of the Neanderthal genome, and they are expected to publish their work in the near future. Pääbo's earlier studies on components of Neanderthal genomes largely ruled out interbreeding, but they were not based on more comprehensive analyses of the complete genome.

Linda Vigilant, an anthropologist at the Planck Institute, found Joyce's talk a convincing answer to "subtle deviations" noticed in genetic variation in the Pacific region.

"This information is really helpful," says Vigilant. "And it's cool."

The paleontological record also is producing fossils that complement such interbreeding theories. Pääbo's team and Russian colleagues recently reported the mitochondrial genome of an archaic human from the Altai Mountains — in southern Siberia near ancient Asian trade routes1.

The ancient mitochondrial DNA came from a piece of finger bone, which the groups haven't identified by species. It could be Neanderthal, a new Homo species or some other archaic form — like H. erectus, who spread to Oceania by 1.8 million years ago.

The Pääbo team reported that the bone was from an individual that lived 30,000–48,000 years ago in Denisova Cave, near where both modern humans and Neanderthals then dwelled. But the age of the bone has been questioned by researchers, who say the cave's sediments may have been reworked, making the bone's layer older.

ADVERTISEMENT

At the anthropology meeting, Theodore Schurr, a molecular anthropologist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, said the genetic model showing interbreeding raises questions about the range of species, like H. heidelbergensis. He noted that human skeletons found at Lake Mungo in New South Wales, Australia, have robust features, which may represent the result of interbreeding; they are dated to more than 20,000 years ago.

Keith Hunley, another member of the New Mexico group, said the team is now moving to publish its results in the near future.

LeBrok
22-04-10, 01:55
Thanks Shasta, great find. It confirms what most of us here suspected.

Cambrius (The Red)
22-04-10, 02:13
...and how about the ones running around today that are 100% Neanderthal????:laughing:

Kostik
27-04-10, 18:38
http://hominology.narod.ru/left2.jpg
http://hominology.narod.ru/fase.jpg

These are skulls attributed to Zana and her son Khwit from Abkhazia. Zana's is the smaller one. I don't know how authentic they are, where they are now and whether or not they are available for DNA analysis.

The link to the article in Russian:

http://hominology.narod.ru/zana.htm

The excavations and studies were done mostly by amateurs and only with techniques available in 1970s in the Soviet Union.

Maciamo
15-07-10, 18:13
Check this out : How Neanderthal Are You? Buy This Kit and See (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/07/14/new-test-measures-neanderthal/)


In May, scientists finished mapping the genes of the Neanderthal and determined that as much as 4% of those genes are in people today. Now one company has unveiled a test to determine just how much Neanderthal is inside you. Sort of.

The $90 kit from DNA Consultants purports to “estimate how much Neanderthal is in your ancestry.” It comes up with a "Neanderthal Index," which "reports any strong matches you have with populations identified as Archaic, those preserving the earliest earmarks of interbreeding between Neanderthals and humans."

Problem is :


"The material makes it perfectly clear that the product does not test any gene variants that scientific research has shown may have come from Neanderthals. Instead, the product reports on gene variants that we don't know about from Neanderthals. Huh?"

So, it's a good idea to test how much Neanderthal DNA is in us. This for sure will sell. But it's too early to do it. We need to get a high-resolution DNA test (at least 23andMe level but hopefully higher) and compare it with Neanderthal DNA. BUT, we only know the DNA sequence of ONE Neanderthalian individual, and no contemporary Homo Sapiens, AFAIK. So even if a company provided a serious test, it won't be very meaningful until we get more ancient samples tested.

Aristander
15-07-10, 20:29
Not very much Neanderthal apparent in my physical appearance, I have a rather high forehead and very little brow ridge and only the suggestion of an occipital bun, and absolutely no space behind the former location of my wisdom teeth.
Rufosity isn't apparent in me personally but I am sure that I have it through some recessive genes since my son is a very fair skinned, blue eyed red head who otherwise looks just like me.

blaco
08-02-11, 04:14
How accurate is this? Because according to it, I'm a freaking neanderthal.

mcw73
03-03-11, 10:51
I have all of these traits, although i live in Canada all of my ancestors come from western Europe

Dagne
10-04-11, 06:29
To prove it I could even attach a picture of a face from a current day Lithuania...

cerverg
03-05-11, 21:43
Why all the attention is pointed to the northen branch of the neanderthals? The southern branch is much bigger and probably more important. They were not blond for sure the northernmost they get is south England.Not many blonds around the middle east which suggests they can't be blue-eyed and blond.
One thing is for sure... The map of the neanderthals matches perfectly the map of white curly people and some how it matches more or less the map of The Roman empire.... which is... odd...
Are the neanderthals that backwarded than homosapiens for real? I doubt it...They managed to reach and survive in Europe much earlier than homosapiens (the early european homesapiens looked more like gypsies - "the missing link" LoL j/k). That common image for the neanderthals of bainless animals is somehow wrong. They were making some kind of glue which even for a "modern human" is quite a challange. All european neanderthals came from the Balkans (no offence meant here). There was no "trans-caucasian" migration thru south Russia and Ukraine.The Bosphorus (the strait between Black and Marmara sea) didn't exist during the age of the neanderthals. There was a solid land between Europe and Asia which made the migration easier.
The traits of the neanderthals: Tough built,hairy backs, strong bones, connected eyebrows, short legs,curly hair,low forehead,big noses... all that sounds somehow familiar....very mediterranean in some way...

ultralars
29-07-11, 14:24
i have:
Retromolar space posterior to the third molar
Little or no protruding chin
Larger mental foramen in mandible for facial blood supply
Short, bowed shoulder blades
Large round finger tips
Fair skin, hair and eyes, blond hair, light skin, bluegreen eyes


100% European decent, i might fit into more of the characteristics but i am not sure how to check most of them.

elghund
29-07-11, 19:09
Could Neanderthals be responsible for Rh negative blood?

St Delcambre
29-07-11, 20:15
I'm sure most of you are aware of this but for those who aren't, there's a fun little analysis on Interpretome that allows you to upload your genome and tally your "Neanderthal Score" based on certain SNPs. It's under the "explore" section here http://http://esquilax.stanford.edu/ (http://http//esquilax.stanford.edu/)

LeBrok
29-07-11, 22:34
Thanks for the link, but my IE doesn't work with their Interpretome. :(

ultralars
29-07-11, 23:27
How exactly does one get data on it's own genome?

Haganus
30-07-11, 22:18
I believe that most descendants of Neanderthalers live in northwest Europe. Coon describe the so called Anglo-Saxon type
with bony and steel forhead, blue eyes and flaxen/red hair. The German Prof. Virchow thought that he saw
in Friesland (Netherlands) real Neanderthalers (with eye brows).

edao
30-08-11, 19:55
"Sharing the results of a massive, worldwide study, geneticist Svante Pääbo shows the DNA proof that early humans mated with Neanderthals after we moved out of Africa."

watch video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU0ei9ApmsY&feature=feedu)

LeBrok
31-08-11, 06:24
Great find Edao. That was my understanding all long that groups of people mixed through history whenever they were in contact. It is true now and it was true then.

Antigone
31-08-11, 07:40
Yes, thanks for sharing that Edao. It is an excellent explanation.

Sooo, all those racial purists out there no longer have a leg to stand on? It is Africans who are the pure ones (if there is such a thing) and it is everyone else who are the mongrels. Ha, love it.

edao
31-08-11, 08:52
Another interesting article...

New investigations at an iconic cave site on the Channel Island of Jersey have led archaeologists to believe the Neanderthals have been widely under-estimated. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14677434)

Mzungu mchagga
31-08-11, 11:29
First of all I believe that Africans also mixed with other types of humans. I don't think that Africa was entirely populated by homo sapiens only at the time a bottle-neck of humans entered Asia. There were quite some archaic sapiens around Africa, too. Maybe also some descendants of homo rhodesiensis.
And concerning the racists, this new find doesn't make things any better, as white supremacists will now claim that they became superior THROUGH the Neanderthal-admixture.

Bodin
31-08-11, 18:51
I have ocipital bone ; my scull is vertical - east Asian ; do not have empty space behind wisdom teath ;my eyebrow bone is strong and my eyebrows are conected ; my eyes are round , but average sized; my nose fits description , aldo it is very narow , but my mother nose is broad ;I am not realy shore is it a triangle betwen my cheeks and nose; my chin is small but my mothers chin is even smaller; yes my cheeks are red during exercizes and when it is cold , aldo I have seen people with constantly red cheeks ; my shoulders are bend forvard, aldo I am not shore is it more than average; I wouldnt say my finger tips are flat and broad but my tong is more than 1,5cm whide;I was born redheaded , so is the sons of my uncles ( mother brothers ) ,then it changed to blue , and now it is brown with some red my moter has blond hair and father brown and they relatives some dark some light, I dont have any preckels ; my eyes are brown so was of all in my father familly ( my sister,2 aunts , 2 uncles , grenma , grenpa , grenpas father, father of grenpas father - I dont have any more pictures ), in my mother familly all have blue eyes ( grenma , grenpa , 2 uncles , grenma mother had brown eyes) , my skin is realy pale like most in my father familly , my mothers family had white skin but not pale
My legs are long , dont have hair on backs at all , nobody in my familly have or had curly hair
My mthDNA is X2 , and I am Rh+ . So how much of Neanderthal is in me ?

Robert22
13-11-11, 23:09
I always thought Neandethals didnt interbreed wih Homo Sapiens... Seems i was wrong. But its very intresting !
But i dont have any of those features, so i think its safe to say that i don't have Neandetal DNA.

LeBrok
29-12-11, 20:21
MORE NEANDERTHAL IN US:

Neanderthal DNA Boosts Your Immune System 


When our ancestors mated with Neanderthals and Denisovans, a recently discovered archaic human group, they picked up some of their genes. Now researchers say that DNA inherited from these extinct hominids may have fortified the modern immune system. A team at Stanford University focused on human leukocyte antigen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_leukocyte_antigen) (HLA) class 1 genes, which play a vital role in rallying the immune system to fight off bacteria and viruses. Because diseases can be endemic to specific regions of the world, these genes exist in thousands of versions, known as alleles.
To analyze the origin of these alleles, the scientists looked at bone marrow registries (http://www.citeulike.org/group/3378/article/9707766) containing the HLA genes of millions of people from all parts of the globe. By comparing DNA from modern populations with the reconstructed genomes of Neanderthals and Denisovans, they discovered that several HLA variants from the archaic groups are still around. For example, the ancient gene for HLA-A, which helps the body resist viruses like Epstein-Barr, is present in half of all modern Europeans, more than 70 percent of Asians, and up to 95 percent of people in Papua New Guinea. Other ancient alleles are involved in the regulation of natural killer cells, essential for immune defense.
Our ancestors’ liaisons with Neanderthals and Denisovans may have made them less susceptible to local infections, proposes Stanford immunologist Laurent Abi-Rached, giving them a survival advantage as they migrated out of Africa to Europe and Asia. “Breeding with our evolutionary cousins may have facilitated the spread of modern humans by preventing them from getting sick.”

http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jan-feb/80

LeBrok
23-10-12, 23:43
Now it is official. Chuck Norris is the last Neantherthal.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/63636000/jpg/_63636669_prehistoric.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19960748


Although I must say that Chuck is more robustly built than 70k year old specimen.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/63621000/jpg/_63621612_img_8326.jpghttp://www.funmint.com/images/chuck_norris/Chuck_Norris_2.jpg

Barrister
14-04-13, 04:03
ROFL @ post above.

My ears and face turn extremely red in cold, and my head starts to get noticably very warm. My rate of thought also increases when this happens, so i actually feel smarter in winter, and get drained in summer very quickly. Sucks living in Australia without air conditioning.

My father, and his father had very large finter tips, i used to jokingly call them frog fingers, because their finger tips reminded me of the suction pads on frogs feet. They both also had very pronounced foreheads. All had black hair, strangely, but would shine red in the sun.

Barrister
09-05-13, 04:58
How's this for a supraorbital torus.

http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/491c8b2e14b9b93c00614763-300-241/dickfuldap1111308jpg.jpghttp://finance.youngmoney.com/images/articles/Dick_Fuld.jpg

toyomotor
09-05-13, 05:09
Gulp!!! I have a small but noticeable bump at the back of my head, centred just above the neck. My thumbs are more than a centimetre wide, I have brown hair and blue eyes. But then someone suggested that there is a higher proportion of Neanderthal DNA in Eastern European/West Asians than in Western Europeans, and I carry yDNA Hpg D, which is almost exclusively Japanese although small groupings used to exist in northern Mongolia and Tibet.

Barrister
10-05-13, 04:06
Gulp!!! I have a small but noticeable bump at the back of my head, centred just above the neck. My thumbs are more than a centimetre wide, I have brown hair and blue eyes. But then someone suggested that there is a higher proportion of Neanderthal DNA in Eastern European/West Asians than in Western Europeans, and I carry yDNA Hpg D, which is almost exclusively Japanese although small groupings used to exist in northern Mongolia and Tibet.

Wow, that's interesting, you're a D2 carrier and you're ethnically western european??

LeBrok
10-05-13, 04:48
I carry yDNA Hpg D, which is almost exclusively Japanese although small groupings used to exist in northern Mongolia and Tibet.
You must be the outcome of English Empire meeting Japan history chapter, form 200 years ago. Perhaps the furthest Mongolian invasion into the Europe, or silk trader having some fun in Britannia, selling the rest of of silk there. :)

silkyslovanbojkovsky
17-09-13, 17:11
I am curious as to how different (Physically) are modern European traits from Cro-magnon. Everyone is always comparing Neanderthals with humans but what about Cro-Magnon. Also everyone tries to say Europeans have the biggest browridges on earth, but why then do Europeans have, also to me at leas, the hugest chins on earth?

silkyslovanbojkovsky
17-09-13, 17:18
How's this for a supraorbital torus.

http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/491c8b2e14b9b93c00614763-300-241/dickfuldap1111308jpg.jpghttp://finance.youngmoney.com/images/articles/Dick_Fuld.jpg

This is a good example to me of how people over exaggerate Neanderthal traits. This guy has a prominent brow ridge, however is head is not long or norrow at all. He has a protruding chin and is quite dark. His skull resembles cro magnon far more than Neanderthal. Also I am not too huge in to cranial comparisons because diet, nutrition, and even pregnancy and birth hugely affect skull shape

LeBrok
26-01-14, 23:23
Brock Lesnar

http://www.wrestlingrumors.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Brock-Lesnar-%2B-Heyman.jpeg

oriental
28-06-14, 19:25
How's this for a supraorbital torus.

http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/491c8b2e14b9b93c00614763-300-241/dickfuldap1111308jpg.jpghttp://finance.youngmoney.com/images/articles/Dick_Fuld.jpg

Fuld of Lehman Bros. Wall Street guy.


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/neanderthal-poo-shows-cavemen-ate-veggies-203822763.html#N1VetU7

The artist-model must have used Shia LaBeouf (?) as Neanderthal model.

The recent trend to prevent infant deaths was to have the baby sleep on its back. A lot of babies including my nephew ended up with a flatten skull at the back making a pizza like effect. His head as a result was pancaked round and enlarged. The baby's skull is very soft so it is malleable and subject to gravity and hydraulic pressure from the blood. As he grew older his skull gradually rounded.

motzart
29-06-14, 02:04
Now it is official. Chuck Norris is the last Neantherthal.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/63636000/jpg/_63636669_prehistoric.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19960748


Although I must say that Chuck is more robustly built than 70k year old specimen.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/63621000/jpg/_63621612_img_8326.jpghttp://www.funmint.com/images/chuck_norris/Chuck_Norris_2.jpg




that neanderthal looks like joe rogan
http://deathsquadnetwork.com/images/DS-peeps/joe-rogan-260-4.jpg

John Doe
29-06-14, 10:16
I tested on 23andme (they have the possibility of checking your Neanderthal admixture), I found out I'm apparently 2.4% Neanderthal, not sure on which calculator though because technically humans are 99.5% identical.

oriental
30-06-14, 22:35
that neanderthal looks like joe rogan
http://deathsquadnetwork.com/images/DS-peeps/joe-rogan-260-4.jpg

So he was a natural for the show 'Fear Factor' where they ate insects and worms.:laughing:

Theodorik
01-09-14, 17:35
Neanderthal Traits in Europeans
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neanderthal_facts_and_myths.shtml#modern_humans
During the height of the American Civil Rights craze, liberal scientists in the United States invented the idea that "We are all Africans", descended from black Africans who lived 10,000 years ago and exterminated all previous human races such as Neanderthals, archaic Chinese, and archaic Australians. Among modern peoples, they even claimed that "race doesn't exist."
But then came DNA. At first, tests of mitochondrial DNA seemed to confirm an African origin. But then the 98% of human DNA which is found in the chromosomes, known as nuclear DNA, was tested. To their horror, liberals found that Europeans have some Neanderthal DNA. At first, the liberal party line was that the Neanderthal DNA was only 4% of the total, and not enough to make any difference.
However, it has come to light that many of the traits that make us Europeans were inherited from Neanderthals, and not Africans. These include white skin, blue eyes, red hair, large brains, creativity, and high intelligence. Reconstructions of Neanderthals have even shown that they looked like Europeans! We look more like Neanderthals did than we look like black Africans.
Here is a good summary of the traits we inherited from Neanderthals: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neanderthal_facts_and_myths.shtml#modern_humans
"Physical traits of Neanderthals inherited by modern Europeans"All non-Africans today may have a roughly equal proportion of Neanderthal DNA, but some of the most visible physical traits appear to have been inherited especially by modern Europeans, and northern Europeans in particular. Here is a list of traits that distinguished Neanderthals from Homo sapiens, but that you could also have inherited if you are of European or Western Eurasian descent.

[*=left]"Occipital bun : a protuberance of the occipital bone (back of the head) that looks like a hair knot. You have it if you can feel a rounded bone just above the back of your neck (same height as the ears).
[*=left]Low, flat, elongated skull : What matters here is especially the 'elongated skull', as opposed to the back of the skull falling almost vertically, like all East Asians, and most Anatolian, Caucasians and Eastern Europeans. Elongated skull are particularly common in Scandinavia, in the British Isles and in Iberia.
[*=left]Retromolar space posterior to the third molar: i.e. an empty space behind the "wisdom teeth".
[*=left]Supraorbital torus : protruding eyebrow bone (including big deep eye cavity between the eye and eyebrow).
[*=left]Bigger, rounder eyes than average.
[*=left]Broad, projecting nose : angle of the nose bone going more upward than average (not falling straight like a "Greek nose").
[*=left]Bony projections on the sides of the nasal opening : i.e. nose bone making a "triangle" between the nose and cheeks/orbits.
[*=left]Little or no protruding chin
[*=left]Larger mental foramen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_foramen) in mandible for facial blood supply : this means that the side jaw and cheek are bigger or better supplied in blood than average. This increased blood supply could result in the cheeks being red (like blushing) when doing physical exercise or when the weather is cold.
[*=left]Short, bowed shoulder blades : i.e. shoulder bones curving toward the front more than average.
[*=left]Large round finger tips : typically "flat" and wide finger tips, especially the thumb (e.g. if your thumb is more than 1.5 cm wide).
[*=left]Rufosity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rufosity) : i.e. having red hair, or brown hair with red pigments, or natural freckles.
[*=left]Fair skin, hair and eyes : Neanderthals are believed to have had blue or green eyes, as well as fair skin and light hair. Having spent 300,000 years in northern latitudes, five times longer than Homo sapiens, it is only natural that Neanderthals should have developed these adaptive traits first."
[*=left]Picture of Neanderthal in Suit

The truth is that we are not all Africans. White people are partly descended from Neanderthals. Contrary to liberal racist propaganda, Neanderthals were not apes or some non-human species. Neanderthals were a human race that has gone extinct.
White people resemble Neanderthals more than they resemble Blacks.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/img/2012/05/Cul/10-nea1color.jpghttp://www.eluniversal.com.mx/cultura/68647.html

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_2.htmhttp://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/images/Neandertal_facial_reconstruction.jpg Reconstruction of the
Neandertal appearance http://www.rdos.net/neanderthal.jpg



http://forums.delphiforums.com/neanderthal
http://forums.delphiforums.com/racism13
http://forums.delphiforums.com/physanthro
http://forums.delphiforums.com/biohistory
http://forums.delphiforums.com/chromosome
http://forums.delphiforums.com/prehistory
http://forums.delphiforums.com/paleogenetics1
http://forums.delphiforums.com/blueyellow
http://forums.delphiforums.com/nordichistory4
http://forums.delphiforums.com/truthseekers23

LeBrok
01-09-14, 18:31
I tested on 23andme (they have the possibility of checking your Neanderthal admixture), I found out I'm apparently 2.4% Neanderthal, not sure on which calculator though because technically humans are 99.5% identical.
The comparisons from 50% to 99.9% of likness always baffled me by huge discapance. I guess it might be bigger or smaller depending if we compare single letters, markers or genes in general. Even with genes one would get huge difference when counting genes as per functions or complete similarity to the last letter.