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Wang
03-10-06, 14:55
Home Violence ... Men in Firing Line

Sunday, 24 September 2006, 03:00 CDT

By KEN MURRAY

A STUDY of patients attending family doctors has found that 52 per cent of men and 43 per cent of women have experienced domestic violence.

The research, carried out by Trinity College Dublin and published in the European Journal of General Practice, reflects the findings of all other two-sex studies carried out in Ireland.

Mary Cleary who runs the AMEN Centre for abused males in Navan, Co Meath, said: "Despite the attempts of certain individuals and organisations to discredit AMEN, these findings again vindicate the position we have held on this issue for the past 10 years."

She said: "Dr Susan Smith, one of the study's authors, quite rightly commented that it was inappropriate to continue to address this issue as solely a woman's problem'.

"The figures from the Trinity College study totally discredit feminist theory that women are predominantly the victims and men the perpetrators."

According to Mary, the way domestic violence against men is treated by the State is proof that the Government is out of touch with reality.


Meanwhile feminists still try to keep the truth hidden, under wraps and maintain the myth that men are mostly the perpetrators for as long as they can.

You can read the full news article here (http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/667994/home_violence__men_in_firing_line/index.html).

Maciamo
03-10-06, 15:00
True. I have never hit my wife, but she has hit me many times ! (not that it hurt so much, but still). Women are also the ones who throw objects or break plates or glasses during their periodic fits of anger.

Ma Cherie
03-10-06, 20:54
Domestic violence is domestic violence. No matter who is being abused. By the way Wang, I think you have alot misconceptions about feminists. I don't know what feminists you're referring to who are trying to maintain the myth that men are the violent ones. :okashii:

Wang
05-10-06, 11:38
I think you have alot misconceptions about feminists. I don't know what feminists you're referring to who are trying to maintain the myth that men are the violent ones.

I don't have any misconceptions about them.

Here's another article about that.


Violence Against Women Act money is used by anti-male feminists to train judges, prosecutors and police in the feminist myths that domestic violence is a contagious epidemic, and that men are naturally batterers and women are naturally victims. Feminists lobby state legislators to pass must-arrest and must-prosecute laws even when police don't observe any crime and can't produce a witness to testify about an alleged crime.

You can read the full article here (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060512/news_lz1e12schlafl.html).

Maciamo
05-10-06, 13:06
Domestic violence is domestic violence. No matter who is being abused.

With the nuance that not all domestic violence have the same level of violence. There is a world of difference between giving an occasional slap during a fight and throwing acid at someone's face, leaving permanent disfiguration (there have been many such cases in Bangladesh). Likewise one slap in a year cannot be treated like daily beating, with effusion of blood and broken ribs. So no, Domestic violence is not always equal to domestic violence. It's all a case by case basis.

Personally I also consider shouting very loud or breaking/throwing objects as a form of violence, even it there is no external damage to the person. It is well-known that a nagging wife can be more painful (psyhchologically) than a physically violent one.


By the way Wang, I think you have alot misconceptions about feminists. I don't know what feminists you're referring to who are trying to maintain the myth that men are the violent ones. :okashii:

I don't know in the States, but here most people automatically think that domestic violence is caused by the husband, because a man can always defenf himself against a presumably weaker woman. I think this is a very "limited" way of thinking, because a woman with a knife or projectile can be more dangerous than a bare-handed man.

I think that many European countries (Belgium included) are "legally retarded" for such matters. Contrarily to the US where lawsuits can be as much for men suing women over domestic violence, sexual harassment or even rape, in Europe (esp. in Latin countries) few people would even consider a case of the "victimised man", because it hasn't entered the mores yet. Likewise in France or Italy, men can also more freely touch their female colleagues (e.g. on the butt) or use suggestive language that would be grounds for a sexual harassment case in the US. Let's say that Latin people are much less easily offended about sex, or much more "male-chauvinist", so that a man can never be seen as weaker than a woman.

Ma Cherie
05-10-06, 20:23
I'm well aware that men can be victims of violence. However, the issues surrounding that are that men are less likely to report such matters. Maybe it's an issue of masculinity.
Statistics here in the US indicate that 3 million women are women. One in four women will be assulted by their partners in their lifetime.
In 1998 in the U.S.,of the approximately 1.5 million violent crimes committed between intimate partners, over 874,000 of the victims were women, and over 832,000 were men. Of the approximately 1,830 murders committed against intimate partners in 1998, 3 out of 4 of the victims were women. In 2001 according to the United States Census Bureau there were 691,710 non-fatal domestic violence acts committed and 1,247 fatal incidents. In homes where domestic violence occurs, children in the home are at a 300% greater risk of being abused.
* 6-12% of women are abused in a given year
* 20-30% of women receiving welfare are current victims of Domestic Violence
* 30-65% of all homicides of women are related to Domestic Violence by their male partners
According to Respecting Accuracy in Domestic Abuse Reporting (RADAR) report:
* Women are just as likely as men to engage in partner aggression (Kelly 2003)
* Men experience over one-third of DV-related injuries (Psychological Bulletin, Vol. 126, No. 5, pages 651-680)
* Men are far less likely to report DV incidents than women (Stets and Straus 1990)
* The myths about domestic violence are numerous (Gelles 1995)
* Many of these myths are based on DV studies that use biased survey methods (Arriaga and Oskamp 1999)
So, it's also an issue of whether men will come out and report being abused.

And I happen to be a feminist by the way.

Wang
05-10-06, 21:28
Statistics here in the US indicate that 3 million women are women. One in four women will be assulted by their partners in their lifetime.
In 1998 in the U.S.,of the approximately 1.5 million violent crimes committed between intimate partners, over 874,000 of the victims were women, and over 832,000 were men. Of the approximately 1,830 murders committed against intimate partners in 1998, 3 out of 4 of the victims were women. In 2001 according to the United States Census Bureau there were 691,710 non-fatal domestic violence acts committed and 1,247 fatal incidents. In homes where domestic violence occurs, children in the home are at a 300% greater risk of being abused.
* 6-12% of women are abused in a given year
* 20-30% of women receiving welfare are current victims of Domestic Violence
* 30-65% of all homicides of women are related to Domestic Violence by their male partners

Where do you source this part from: 6-12% of women are abused every year huh? That's a pretty random number and a huge range. Where do they get that, how do they caculate it? I strongly suspect that it's bogus.

Have you ever considered that men will not come out and report being abused because there is NO support for them? That even if they want to report it, there is nowhere they actually can? Especially since mandatory domestic violence arrest laws are often gender specific and require a male to be arrested if police are called to DV crimes. So reporting DV could actually get HIM arrested.

Wang
05-10-06, 21:57
By the way Wang, I think you have alot misconceptions about feminists. I don't know what feminists you're referring to who are trying to maintain the myth that men are the violent ones.

You say I have misconceptions about Feminism. What misconceptions would those be? You mean the crazy idea I have that feminists hate marriage?
"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the
women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom
for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." (radical
feminist leader Sheila Cronan).
The nutso notion that feminists support murdering babies by the score?
"The most merciful thing a large family can do to one of its infant
members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood,
in "Women and the New Rage," p.67)

Want to hear more of their OWN WORDS? Since you claim to be a feminist you clearly support such statements. So tell me, exactly HOW I am misunderstanding the feminist agenda.

Ma Cherie
06-10-06, 00:40
Because you don't fully understand what feminism truely is. That's why you have misconceptions. Sweetheart feminism comes in many forms. There is no one kind of feminism.
There are:
Liberal feminists
Womanists (black feminists)
ecofeminists
Cultural feminists
Islamic feminists
Pro-sex feminists
Marxist feminists
Lesbian feminist
...there are more.
So, which feminists are you referring to who claim that men are the violent ones? The radical feminists? That sounds like something they would say. I am a feminist who supports reproductive rights, I'm against sexism (for both men and women), I detest discrimination against LGBT people and I'm an advocate for them, I'm a raging feminist when it comes to harsh treatment towards women in certian cultures, (i.e. women being stoned in Iran, bride burnings, FGM, etc). As a feminist I hope to one day help put a stop to this kind of treatment. I'm also somewhat of a womanist. A woman can have a family, a husband, and still be a feminist. A woman can wear make-up and dresses and still be a feminist. Also, don't you lump me together with those "marriage-hating" or "man-hating" feminists, because I am not one of them. You cannot lump feminists together when feminism comes in many forms.
Here's the true definition of what feminism is:
Feminism is a diverse collection of social theories, political movements and moral philosophies, largely motivated by or concerned with the experiences of women. A popular definition of feminimism goes as follows "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."

Wang
06-10-06, 06:57
Because you don't fully understand what feminism truely is. That's why you have misconceptions. Sweetheart feminism comes in many forms. There is no one kind of feminism.
There are:
Liberal feminists
Womanists (black feminists)
ecofeminists
Cultural feminists
Islamic feminists
Pro-sex feminists
Marxist feminists
Lesbian feminist
...there are more.
So, which feminists are you referring to who claim that men are the violent ones? The radical feminists? That sounds like something they would say. I am a feminist who supports reproductive rights, I'm against sexism (for both men and women), I detest discrimination against LGBT people and I'm an advocate for them, I'm a raging feminist when it comes to harsh treatment towards women in certian cultures, (i.e. women being stoned in Iran, bride burnings, FGM, etc). As a feminist I hope to one day help put a stop to this kind of treatment. I'm also somewhat of a womanist. A woman can have a family, a husband, and still be a feminist. A woman can wear make-up and dresses and still be a feminist. Also, don't you lump me together with those "marriage-hating" or "man-hating" feminists, because I am not one of them. You cannot lump feminists together when feminism comes in many forms.
Here's the true definition of what feminism is:
Feminism is a diverse collection of social theories, political movements and moral philosophies, largely motivated by or concerned with the experiences of women. A popular definition of feminimism goes as follows "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."

"Feminism" in general is best measured by its actions, and much those actions are anti-male.

I don't care about the different 'types' of feminism. To me, it's arguing about the differences between a neo-Nazi, a skinhead, or someone who claims to not actually HATE people of other races, they just love theirs so darn much. They're all bigots; they all foster hate. To what degree they do so is irrelevant. Anyone who uses the label 'feminist' inherits the baggage of the others.

The point is, feminists are "women-firsters". Women's desires and whims ALWAYS precede mens. In fact, they gain privileges at the EXPENSE of men. This is one of feminism's primary goals, regardless of its "flavour".

If you don't like that, fine. But when I say feminists, I mean ALL. Females in western societies are PRIVILEGED out of proportion. With no accountability they are free to run amok and degenerate whatever the hell they want in the name of "ekwalitee".

Ma Cherie
06-10-06, 20:27
The only thing I can say to you, is that you know nothing about feminism. Don't come here and spread your anti-feminism or probably anti-woman philosophy. And I take offense to your comment that we all spread hate, I don't spread hate, I support equality for both sexes and that makes me a feminist, I don't give a flying f**k what you think feminism is. You're probably the one who is spreading hate. To associate feminists with skin-heads is simply pure igorance. :okashii:

I'm done here. And I'm sorry for getting off-topic.:sorry: :bluush:

Wang
07-10-06, 14:52
The only thing I can say to you, is that you know nothing about feminism. Don't come here and spread your anti-feminism or probably anti-woman philosophy. And I take offense to your comment that we all spread hate, I don't spread hate, I support equality for both sexes and that makes me a feminist, I don't give a flying f**k what you think feminism is. You're probably the one who is spreading hate. To associate feminists with skin-heads is simply pure igorance. :okashii:
I'm done here. And I'm sorry for getting off-topic.:sorry: :bluush:


There you go, putting words into my mouth. This is what feminists do when it is shown they have no logical basis to stand on. They resort to personal attacks. So I'm "anti-woman" huh? No, I am nothing of the sort, but I know what a woman is, and YOU are not one. You are a feminist shill.

If feminism is about "equality" then why is it exclusively associated with the elevation of the feminine? Why not call it "equalism" or some such? Because feminists have NO INTEREST in taking on the additional responsibilities that true equality would require. Feminism works from the mythical idea that all women are being "opressed" by some mystical force called "patriarchy" which they seek to overthrow. This ideological base is centred on hating the male AS A CLASS and all other considerations are secondary. So don't presume to tell ME I know nothing about feminism.

Let us see what feminist luminaries have to say about this shall we?
"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin
"All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French, Author, "The Women's Room"
"No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one." Simone de Beauvoir, author of _The Second Sex_, the book that is credited with launching the mainstream of the modern feminist movement -

Kinsao
12-10-06, 12:18
I think there is some confusion between more "old-style" and "militant" feminists, and women who are "feminists" simply because they want equality of rights and opportunities.

I used to consider myself quite "anti-feminism", in fact, purely because extreme and militant feminists piss me off to an inordinate extent. But it's not so simple as that. I'm no longer "anti-feminism", in fact I don't any longer give a thought to "feminism" as a concept. I simply support equal rights and opportunities for men and women.

I am not trying to deny that men and women are different, or claim that "equal" means "the same". Science has shown that certain areas of men's and women's brains work differently from each other. Men and women are (obviously!) physically different. "Feminism" isn't about trying to have the physical strength of a man, or to think "like a man", and stuff like that. It's about being treated fairly. Not claiming women are the same as men, but that we are of equal worth. In fact, I don't even like thinking of people in terms of "women" and "men" at all (except for sex, of course!), but rather as individuals, each one with their own strengths and weaknesses that may or may not be related to what sex they are. :relief:

*cough* back to the topic :bluush: You make a good point about domestic violence by women against men being too much hidden because men don't find the support to come out and reveal about it. :kanashii: This thing is one other example of inequality, which should be fought against, because no one, male or female, should have to be a victim of domestic violence. :sick:

road-finder
12-02-09, 20:29
you shouln't forget children....((
Often they are also the victims of domestic violence... We have some Charity Fund against the domestic violence in Ukraine, but it's not clear how to prevent it....