PDA

View Full Version : Why such double standards when it comes racism ?



Maciamo
04-03-07, 11:51
BBC News : Cherokees eject slave descendants (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6416735.stm)


Members of the Cherokee Nation of native Americans have voted to revoke tribal citizenship for descendants of black slaves the Cherokees once owned.

A total of 76.6% voted to amend the tribal constitution to limit citizenship to "blood" tribe members.

Supporters said only the Cherokees had the right to determine tribal members.

Opponents said the amendment was racist and aimed at preventing those with African-American heritage from gaining tribal revenue and government funding.

The Cherokee Nation has 250,000 to 270,000 members, second only to the Navajo.
...

How comes the Cherokees are allowed, and not widely criticised, to revoke citizenship only on grounds of ethnicity? If a Caucasian nation did the same thing, there would probably be widespread anti-racism protests in many countries around the world. Imagine if the Netherlands suddenly decided that to be Dutch one needed to be of proven Germanic descent. I am sure that would be likened to Nazism. When the Cherokees do it, hardly anybody raises an eyebrow...

You might say that it is different because the Cherokees are such a tiny nation, who anyway live within the USA. Well, Luxembourg has only 300,000 citizens (+ 165,000 immigrants or foreign residents), which is comparable in size. The Portuguese are one of the largest foreign community.

If the government of Luxembourg decided to revoke the Luxembourgish citizenship of all the Portuguese who have already become Luxembourg citizens on grounds that they are not ethnic Luxembourgish (or cannot speak Luxembourgish language), the situation would be pretty much the same as what is happening now with the Cherokees. The Portuguese are EU citizens and would anyway have the right to remain in Luxembourg, and even vote at municipal and EU elections, but not at elections for the Luxembourg government. This would be very much like the case of African-Americans deprived of Cherokee citizenship.

Yet, I cannot believe this could ever happen in Europe. So why does the US government allow such double standards? Do they feel bad about what their ancestors did to the Cherokees - but not to Black slaves? Even steeper double standards!

Chris
22-07-09, 18:36
A classic example of being allowed to get away with something because of the fear that challenging it will result in being accused of racism. Alice in Wonderland time...

PaleoRevenge
25-12-16, 07:02
Because the ruling class in US and Europe is hostile to Europeans.

bicicleur
25-12-16, 09:03
racism does not exist anymore, unless it is commited by white people

at least, that is the latest political correct definition of racism

LeBrok
25-12-16, 09:20
racism does not exist anymore, unless it is commited by white people

at least, that is the latest political correct definition of racismThis is funny. You are so hang up on this political correctness that you can't see the real world anymore. Give us a good example of political correctness at Christmas. Just make sure you really thought it through.

Maciamo
25-12-16, 10:42
This is funny. You are so hang up on this political correctness that you can't see the real world anymore. Give us a good example of political correctness at Christmas. Just make sure you really thought it through.

The very institution of Christmas came into existence through political comprises, hypocrisy and political correctness. The Romans used to celebrate the winter solstice with the Saturnalia festival from 17 to 24 December. When in the late 4th century Theodosius I banned all non-Christian cults in the empire, the pagan elements of Saturnalia were incorporated into Christmas. More pagan elements were added later, like the Yule/Xmas tree in Renaissance Germany, that originated in ancient Germanic folklore, or even Santa Claus, which merged the characters of Catholic St Nicholas with that of the ancient Germanic god Odin.

For most Europeans today Christmas is just a family gathering where presents are given to children and the Christian connotation is quickly becoming irrelevant. In the US, though, Christmas is still seen as the paradigm of Christian holidays, despite its manifold pagan roots and crass commercialism. I think that the unusual social and political significance of Christmas in the USA today is also a form of political correctness aimed at pleasing the Christian majority. However I have noticed over the last decade that everywhere in the Western world it is becoming less and less common for people to wish a Merry Christmas to colleagues or strangers, and to prefer the more religiously neutral 'Happy Holidays' instead. So it looks like the tide of political correctness is finally shifting in favour of non-Christians.

Yetos
25-12-16, 10:48
racism does not exist anymore, unless it is commited by white people

at least, that is the latest political correct definition of racism



I like that point of view, +1
so if action is from white people is racism,
if it is from muslims is called terrorism
if comes from Russia is enemy actions
if comes from tribal culture is anachronistic rebellion etc etc

Goga
25-12-16, 17:19
The Romans used to celebrate the winter solstice with the Saturnalia festival from 17 to 24 December.Yeah, they got it from the Iranian Mithraism. My people (Ezdi) do also still celebrate Eyda Êzîd, the feast in honor of God" & welcoming the winter solstice today. This years it felt on dec 16. Christmas is very similar to my native ancient Iranian/Aryan feast day, from the time of the Sumerians and later Magi of the Medes.


Merry Xmas to all of you!

Sile
25-12-16, 17:31
The very institution of Christmas came into existence through political comprises, hypocrisy and political correctness. The Romans used to celebrate the winter solstice with the Saturnalia festival from 17 to 24 December. When in the late 4th century Theodosius I banned all non-Christian cults in the empire, the pagan elements of Saturnalia were incorporated into Christmas. More pagan elements were added later, like the Yule/Xmas tree in Renaissance Germany, that originated in ancient Germanic folklore, or even Santa Claus, which merged the characters of Catholic St Nicholas with that of the ancient Germanic god Odin.

For most Europeans today Christmas is just a family gathering where presents are given to children and the Christian connotation is quickly becoming irrelevant. In the US, though, Christmas is still seen as the paradigm of Christian holidays, despite its manifold pagan roots and crass commercialism. I think that the unusual social and political significance of Christmas in the USA today is also a form of political correctness aimed at pleasing the Christian majority. However I have noticed over the last decade that everywhere in the Western world it is becoming less and less common for people to wish a Merry Christmas to colleagues or strangers, and to prefer the more religiously neutral 'Happy Holidays' instead. So it looks like the tide of political correctness is finally shifting in favour of non-Christians.

and in Italy we have befana

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befana

I do not know about other parts of Italy, but where we are from we give the gifts outs on the day of Befana

Goga
25-12-16, 17:59
unnecessary post

Boreas
25-12-16, 18:35
I like that point of view, +1
so if action is from white people is racism,
if it is from muslims is called terrorism
if comes from Russia is enemy actions
if comes from tribal culture is anachronistic rebellion etc etc


I think your view is better. +1

bicicleur
25-12-16, 19:33
I like that point of view, +1
so if action is from white people is racism,
if it is from muslims is called terrorism
if comes from Russia is enemy actions
if comes from tribal culture is anachronistic rebellion etc etc

what is the definition of terrorism?
I think we can be clear on that

LeBrok
25-12-16, 21:29
The very institution of Christmas came into existence through political comprises, hypocrisy and political correctness. The Romans used to celebrate the winter solstice with the Saturnalia festival from 17 to 24 December. When in the late 4th century Theodosius I banned all non-Christian cults in the empire, the pagan elements of Saturnalia were incorporated into Christmas. More pagan elements were added later, like the Yule/Xmas tree in Renaissance Germany, that originated in ancient Germanic folklore, or even Santa Claus, which merged the characters of Catholic St Nicholas with that of the ancient Germanic god Odin.
Exactly what I wanted to say, that Christians took over biggest Roman holiday for their own use. Perhaps it is time to take it back from Christians, and give it back to all the people.

Aaron1981
25-12-16, 22:32
No...it doesn't belong exclusively to the Romans, see his emphasis on the Yule, winter solstice and Santa Claus. And yes, there is political correctness at Christmas time in western countries. Are you listening to your buddy Trudeau again? On track to be the worst prime-minister in Canadian history after his daddy? A perfect example is "Happy Holidays", the PC crowd is too cowardly to wish someone Merry Christmas. Why else would you buy someone a gift unless it was Christmas time?

Maleth
25-12-16, 22:57
No...it doesn't belong exclusively to the Romans, see his emphasis on the Yule, winter solstice and Santa Claus. And yes, there is political correctness at Christmas time in western countries. Are you listening to your buddy Trudeau again? On track to be the worst prime-minister in Canadian history after his daddy? A perfect example is "Happy Holidays", the PC crowd is too cowardly to wish someone Merry Christmas. Why else would you buy someone a gift unless it was Christmas time?

I think its a know fact that Saturnalia was celebrated in Rome before it converted to Christianity. There is no political correctness in saying so its just a straight forward fact.

LeBrok
26-12-16, 00:27
No...it doesn't belong exclusively to the Romans, see his emphasis on the Yule, winter solstice and Santa Claus. And yes, there is political correctness at Christmas time in western countries. Are you listening to your buddy Trudeau again? On track to be the worst prime-minister in Canadian history after his daddy? A perfect example is "Happy Holidays", the PC crowd is too cowardly to wish someone Merry Christmas. Why else would you buy someone a gift unless it was Christmas time?I voted Harper. Neither one is a visionary leader or particularly good prime minister.

LeBrok
26-12-16, 00:33
No...it doesn't belong exclusively to the Romans, see his emphasis on the Yule, winter solstice and Santa Claus. And yes, there is political correctness at Christmas time in western countries. Are you listening to your buddy Trudeau again? On track to be the worst prime-minister in Canadian history after his daddy? A perfect example is "Happy Holidays", the PC crowd is too cowardly to wish someone Merry Christmas. Why else would you buy someone a gift unless it was Christmas time?Why would you want to wish Merry Christmas to atheist or people of other religions? It doesn't make sense. Why not Merry Solstice, as this is the root of this holiday?
Actually I say whatever comes to my mind first, sometimes Happy Holidays and sometimes Merry Christmas, latter especially if I know someone is a Christian. I don't think anyone should take any offence hearing either one. After all they know, that in both cases, you wish them well.

Fire Haired14
26-12-16, 01:03
Why would you want to wish Merry Christmas to atheist or people of other religions? It doesn't make sense.

Because it's Christmas. No other popular festival is going on in Western countries except Christmas


Why not Merry Solstice, as this is the root of this holiday?

People chose to celebrate Jesus's birth during the Soltice. The holiday is celebration of Jesus's birth not the winter solstice.


Actually I say whatever comes to my mind first, sometimes Happy Holidays and sometimes Merry Christmas, latter especially if I know someone is a Christian. I don't think anyone should take any offence hearing either one. After all they know, that in both cases, you wish them well.

That's good. It really doesn't matter and hardly anyone cares whether you say happy holidays or merry Christmas.

LeBrok
26-12-16, 01:29
Because it's Christmas. No other popular festival is going on in Western countries except Christmas


Historical

Malkh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malkh-Festival): 25 December
Mōdraniht (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C5%8Ddraniht): or Mothers' Night, the Saxon winter solstice festival.
Saturnalia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia): 17-23 December - An ancient Roman winter solstice festival in honor of the deity Saturn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_deities), held on the 17 December of the Julian calendar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar) and expanded with festivities through to 23 December. Celebrated with sacrifice, a public banquet, followed by private gift-giving, continual partying, and a carnival.
Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_Natalis_Solis_Invicti) (Day of the birth of the Unconquered Sun): 25 December – late Roman Empire

Judaism

Hanukkah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah): Ḥănukkāh, usually spelled חנוכה, pronounced [χanuˈka] in Modern Hebrew; a transliteration also romanized as Chanukah or Chanukkah), also known as the Festival of Lights, Feast of Dedication, is an eight-day Jewish holiday commemorating the re-dedication of the Holy Temple (the Second Temple) in Jerusalem at the time of the Maccabean Revolt against the Seleucid Empire of the 2nd century BC. Hanukkah is observed for eight nights and days, starting on the 25th day of Kislev according to the Hebrew calendar, which may occur at any time from late November to late December in the Gregorian calendar.

Paganism

Yule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule): Pagan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_paganism) winter festival that was celebrated by the historical Germanic people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_people) from late December to early January.
Yalda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalda): 21 December – The turning point, Winter Solstice. As the longest night of the year and the beginning of the lengthening of days, Shabe Yaldā or Shabe Chelle is an Iranian festival celebrating the victory of light and goodness over darkness and evil. Shabe yalda means 'birthday eve.' According to Persian mythology, Mithra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithra) was born at dawn on 22 December to a virgin mother (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_births). He symbolizes light, truth, goodness, strength, and friendship. Herodotus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus) reports that this was the most important holiday of the year for contemporary Persians. In modern times Persians celebrate Yalda by staying up late or all night, a practice known as Shab Chera meaning 'night gazing'. Fruits and nuts are eaten, especially pomegranates and watermelons, whose red color invokes the crimson hues of dawn and symbolize Mithra.

Secular

Human Rights Day (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Day): 10 December
Zamenhof Day (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamenhof_Day): 15 December – Birthday of Ludwig Zamenhof (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Zamenhof), inventor of Esperanto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto); holiday reunion for Esperantists
Soyal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyal): 21 December – Zuni and Hopi
HumanLight (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HumanLight): 23 December – Humanist holiday originated by the New Jersey Humanist Network in celebration of "a Humanist's vision of a good future."[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multinational_festivals_and_holidays#cite_ note-14)
Newtonmas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton_in_popular_culture#Newtonmas): 25 December – As an alternative to celebrating the religious holiday Christmas, some atheists and skeptics have chosen to celebrate December 25 as Newtonmas, due to it being Isaac Newton's birthday on the old style (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_style) date.
Quaid-e-Azam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaid-e-Azam)'s Day: 25 December
Boxing Day (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day): 26 December – Day after Christmas.
Kwanzaa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa): 26 December–1 January – Pan-African (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Africanism) festival celebrated in the US
Watch Night (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Night): 31 December
New Year's Eve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Eve): 31 December – last day of the Gregorian year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar)
Hogmanay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogmanay): night of 31 December–before dawn of 1 January – Scottish New Year's Eve celebration
Dongzhi Festival (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongzhi_Festival) – a celebration of Winter



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multinational_festivals_and_holidays




People chose to celebrate Jesus's birth during the Soltice. The holiday is celebration of Jesus's birth not the winter solstice.Nobody knows what day of a year Christ was born. When Christianity became state religion of Roman empire, and all people were forced to become christians, the biggest pagan holiday was hijacked for Christ birthday celebration.

Fire Haired14
26-12-16, 07:57
Historical

Malkh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malkh-Festival): 25 December
Mōdraniht (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C5%8Ddraniht): or Mothers' Night, the Saxon winter solstice festival.
Saturnalia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia): 17-23 December - An ancient Roman winter solstice festival in honor of the deity Saturn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_deities), held on the 17 December of the Julian calendar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar) and expanded with festivities through to 23 December. Celebrated with sacrifice, a public banquet, followed by private gift-giving, continual partying, and a carnival.
Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_Natalis_Solis_Invicti) (Day of the birth of the Unconquered Sun): 25 December – late Roman Empire

Judaism

Hanukkah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah): Ḥănukkāh, usually spelled חנוכה, pronounced [χanuˈka] in Modern Hebrew; a transliteration also romanized as Chanukah or Chanukkah), also known as the Festival of Lights, Feast of Dedication, is an eight-day Jewish holiday commemorating the re-dedication of the Holy Temple (the Second Temple) in Jerusalem at the time of the Maccabean Revolt against the Seleucid Empire of the 2nd century BC. Hanukkah is observed for eight nights and days, starting on the 25th day of Kislev according to the Hebrew calendar, which may occur at any time from late November to late December in the Gregorian calendar.

Paganism

Yule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule): Pagan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_paganism) winter festival that was celebrated by the historical Germanic people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_people) from late December to early January.
Yalda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalda): 21 December – The turning point, Winter Solstice. As the longest night of the year and the beginning of the lengthening of days, Shabe Yaldā or Shabe Chelle is an Iranian festival celebrating the victory of light and goodness over darkness and evil. Shabe yalda means 'birthday eve.' According to Persian mythology, Mithra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithra) was born at dawn on 22 December to a virgin mother (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_births). He symbolizes light, truth, goodness, strength, and friendship. Herodotus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herodotus) reports that this was the most important holiday of the year for contemporary Persians. In modern times Persians celebrate Yalda by staying up late or all night, a practice known as Shab Chera meaning 'night gazing'. Fruits and nuts are eaten, especially pomegranates and watermelons, whose red color invokes the crimson hues of dawn and symbolize Mithra.

Secular

Human Rights Day (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Day): 10 December
Zamenhof Day (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamenhof_Day): 15 December – Birthday of Ludwig Zamenhof (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Zamenhof), inventor of Esperanto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto); holiday reunion for Esperantists
Soyal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyal): 21 December – Zuni and Hopi
HumanLight (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HumanLight): 23 December – Humanist holiday originated by the New Jersey Humanist Network in celebration of "a Humanist's vision of a good future."[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multinational_festivals_and_holidays#cite_ note-14)
Newtonmas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton_in_popular_culture#Newtonmas): 25 December – As an alternative to celebrating the religious holiday Christmas, some atheists and skeptics have chosen to celebrate December 25 as Newtonmas, due to it being Isaac Newton's birthday on the old style (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_style) date.
Quaid-e-Azam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaid-e-Azam)'s Day: 25 December
Boxing Day (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day): 26 December – Day after Christmas.
Kwanzaa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwanzaa): 26 December–1 January – Pan-African (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Africanism) festival celebrated in the US
Watch Night (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Night): 31 December
New Year's Eve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Eve): 31 December – last day of the Gregorian year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar)
Hogmanay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogmanay): night of 31 December–before dawn of 1 January – Scottish New Year's Eve celebration
Dongzhi Festival (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongzhi_Festival) – a celebration of Winter



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multinational_festivals_and_holidays

There are other events going on at this time of the year but the bottom line is the reason late December is Holiday Season to us is because of Christmas(and New Year). No other comparable big events are going on.


Nobody knows what day of a year Christ was born. When Christianity became state religion of Roman empire, and all people were forced to become christians, the biggest pagan holiday was hijacked for Christ birthday celebration.

The celebration of Christmas being chosen for December because of an already existing tradition doesn't change the fact the celebration is the celebration of Jesus's brith. The distant origin of why we celebrate Christmas at this time of the year doesn't affect the way the majority of American demographic groups and their cultural ancestors have viewed Christmas for countless generations. Only historians know why we celebrate it in December. Distant origin doesn't define what a modern cultural practice or people are. Kind of like how Irish, Scottish, and Welsh became united in their Celticism once they learned they spoke related languages. We shouldn't change the definition of Christmas like they changed the definition of who their people are.

This is why I think the distant ancestor of the Christmas tree, Santa clause, stockings, or whatever else doesn't matter. Our Christmas tree for example has nothing to do with any pagan German tradition, it's a fashion that grew in the 1800s that may or may not be ultimately way back descended from pagan Germans. The most recent origin of traditions tell more about them.

Boreas
26-12-16, 10:34
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/14/article-2248023-168378BD000005DC-907_634x446.jpg
This is from UK.

I can't sense too much Christianity in it.

I guess, in the mind of many children, Christmast means Sant Claus instead of Jesus.

bicicleur
26-12-16, 11:24
Exactly what I wanted to say, that Christians took over biggest Roman holiday for their own use. Perhaps it is time to take it back from Christians, and give it back to all the people.

it is not Christian any more, it is in the hands of commerce
it is the most mellow day of the year (in a negative sense)

Yetos
26-12-16, 12:54
This is from UK.

I can't sense too much Christianity in it.

I guess, in the mind of many children, Christmast means Sant Claus instead of Jesus.


That is first Santa,

http://kulturica.com/k/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/poseidon1.jpg

God Poseidon, celebrated at aroundbegining of December with modern calendar, and ended with the days of Alkyon middle January (christian 6 january)

that is the first Christian Santa, saint Nicolas
the Bishop of ΜΥΡΑ Λυκιας (today Kale Attaleia) where Poseidon had a big temple before christianity.
in red and white,
celebrated at 4-5-6 December
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QXIqQCKjtF4/Up5iBhthcUI/AAAAAAAACTo/wOMD1Bfgvio/s1600/agios_nikolaos_723.jpg

and saint Nicolas at West Europe, celbrated at Christmas
http://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/images/k/kazka-mikulas.jpg


at East after emperror Julian and the total defeat of polytheism, they replace him with Saint Basileios of Caesaria (Kayseri)
and calebrate him at 1rst January

https://sinolo.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/jpg?w=660

at Germanic nations from Nikolaos (Ni)-Kolaus) turn to Klauss -Clauss.

and that is the modern Saint, which is no saint at all for me,
but a saint of merchants, and multinational corporations

https://zenithmag.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/cocacola.jpg?w=625

and turkey (the bird) is brought from America,
Before each family slain the pig as at Roman Saturnalia, 20-23 December.
and eat meat 4 times the week until February,
they pasteurised it with its own fat and salt till 40 days before Easter at Christians,
till end of January- middle of February and gave the remain to the men who leave to go for work at antique.

would a real saint, order to drink a refreshment?


it comes from the end of year of Greek naval merchants, and Roman calendars (merchant bills),
along with Kalanta,
December rough month for sea, they redraw the ships, they went home, and bring gifts to family, from the places they went,
they restore the ships, and decorate them, till the new sacred waters, when Poseidon wrath ends,
around middle of January, when Alkyon lays her eggs.

the old decoration for the season was a ship
http://www.saronicmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/xristougenna-peireas-628x392.jpg

at nearby sea cities,

at inland, continental they celebrate the pastoralist return to village,
and Phaethon rebirth with fires and dressed as goat or bears,
a trully IE custom,

the christmas tree as we know it is a Germanic custom, most say from WW1,
but there was also a custom with Ιξος in Greeks and Thracians and Celts
http://assets.contraversus.com/products/c3/bd/d0be74c0193dc00aeb25383db856.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/xG9UwDk7_CSKgUqcgdnMHyNPr5_Wdtz5MO8d1bkBA20aYxl73_ zvL4-SoJIQkQDPcvFfthxe-AJ77zu8sCEb62ptcaHy3_7VCvckVTUYJeY25xxlQ1FpvUnfyQ_ gWnpCniYDmYfRGgbE8Q=s0-d


the old true meaning of santa, was the return of the male to home for a month,
either sailor, either sheppard, even soldier,
and spend the money he gain for the family,
for farmers and hand-works, like carpenters smiths etc, was January,
merchants used to take merchandise, and pay at January February,
that is why Christmas Carrols at Greece are paid with money, or foreign products delicasies etc.
farmers used to gather outside merchants home, and sing, till he gave them the money, or other things he trade.

today only kids sing the callendas
http://www.mmb.org.gr/files/themata/kalanta.jpg


PS
when I was kid, housekeepers treated handmade κουραμπιε, kurabiye, which comes from the deep minor Asia or Persia
https://www.sintagespareas.gr/images/stories/rapidrecipe/im0000/th/51-kourampiedes-by-sitronella.jpg

or melomakarono which comes from ancient Greek death rituals
http://www.eirinika.gr/sites/default/files/1_305.jpg


and if they were from Pontus they treat ωτια (ears)
http://www.mageirikesdiadromes.gr/images/stories/rapidrecipe/3940-wtiapontiakaken.jpg

that was the spirit,

LeBrok
26-12-16, 17:44
it is not Christian any more, it is in the hands of commerce
it is the most mellow day of the year (in a negative sense) Are you missing the Christian character of Christmas?! It includes going to the mas at midnight. Go for it.

LeBrok
26-12-16, 18:08
There are other events going on at this time of the year but the bottom line is the reason late December is Holiday Season to us is because of Christmas(and New Year). No other comparable big events are going on.
I have no problem if christians want to keep it only for themselves as strictly religious celebration. I would gladly use Winter Solstice holidays for all the people, as national holiday, which would have nothing to do with any religion. You don't what to share Christmas, keep it.



The celebration of Christmas being chosen for December because of an already existing tradition doesn't change the fact the celebration is the celebration of Jesus's brith. Supposed birth. It as well, could be as fictional as Santa giving presents.

Yetos
26-12-16, 19:41
The celebration of Christmas being chosen for December because of an already existing tradition doesn't change the fact the celebration is the celebration of Jesus's brith.

No,
it has to do with the birth of Thracian Mithras,
Thracian Mithras entered too much in Roman soldiers,
Mithras was borned 23 December, at a chamber-cave bellow earth surface,
also other dates are 17 january and 21 May,
the day of Constantine Roman emperror and his mother Eleni, was also a sacred day for Thracian Mithraism and Roman soldiers.
Mithras means stone-caveman.

Fire Haired14
26-12-16, 20:49
No,
it has to do with the birth of Thracian Mithras,
Thracian Mithras entered too much in Roman soldiers,
Mithras was borned 23 December, at a chamber-cave bellow earth surface,
also other dates are 17 january and 21 May,
the day of Constantine Roman emperror and his mother Eleni, was also a sacred day for Thracian Mithraism and Roman soldiers.
Mithras means stone-caveman.

How many people think of Mithras during Christmas? Countless generations of tradtion states the reason we celebrate Christmas is Jesus's brith. As I said the time of the year we chose to celebrate it doesn't change the fact Christmas is the celebration of Jesus's birth. Look back at my last post. There's no tradtion which keeps the memeory of these ancient pagan tradtions alive. Only historians keep them alive. Therefore information or theories found/created by historians isn't an aspect of people's culture. Irish people aren't Celtic, they're Irish. Some have a pan-Celtic identity because of stuff historians learned but that shouldn't define what it means to be Irish.

bicicleur
26-12-16, 21:23
Are you missing the Christian character of Christmas?! It includes going to the mas at midnight. Go for it.

I don't understand your reaction.

Khalid_1
22-02-17, 20:16
Your approach is wrong. You should compare ethnicity vs ethnicity, and nationality vs nationality, not ethnicity vs nationality. Belonging to an old Ethnicity (especially to a now non widely practiced ethnicity) is established by lineage by nature, by definition. While establishing belonging to a nationality is established by your citizenship status, if a country gives you a citizenship for whatever reason then you are citizen regardless of your racial or ethnical background.

The right comparison would be to say this: imagine that now in the united status a group of people establish a modern tribe for people who descend from a french tribe that existed in the middle ages called "Soufflé". If I'm Chinese, can I come can I claim that I belong to this tribe? obviously no because belonging to such a tribe is by nature established by lineage, not by any natural right, do you think that anybody would complain in this case? I don't think so. So stop with the victim mentality white people have it best and control half of the world's governments and nobody said any thing.