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deborah gormley
04-05-02, 20:26
I dont know what to believe,
If we are, then in what?
Work?, Home life?, What path we take as a couple? or just when it comes to paying thoses nasty bills?
Post your veiw and have your say,you can even have a vote on it.

larry_s
04-05-02, 20:59
Apart from physical abilities men and women are equal. Equal in their rights, equal in their duties. at home and at work Well, at least they should be treated as equal.

Even in the so-called First World, equal rights have unfortunately not been achieved yet, still a long way to go.

Paying bills? Yeah, at least contribute. ;)

deborah gormley
04-05-02, 21:57
Larry-s
I could'nt agree more that equal rights have not yet been achieved, and its normally less equal to the female, (only in my opion) we have all heard it said that such duties as laundry, house keeping and the up keep of the children are a womans job, and the income to sustain these duties is the mans job, how ever we have all seen quite a change in these roles over the last twenty years, and the work place has been the grounds of global change in such roles, women have had to prove their indiviual worth at such a rapid speed that men feel intimadated by a so called strong woman(not in all areas of course) and the result is men taking the back seat as the woman run the country,(in a figure of speech), so in twenty years time will the men have to call for equal rights and get people to hear their voices and prove their worth by preforming duties that they are more than capable of ,but are not allowed to prove it , this thought gives me no pleasure, but I must add, behind every strong man there's an even stronger woman,hahaha
Debs.

moyashi
05-05-02, 00:55
When I first came to Japan I was a ambitious male pushing and explaining women's rights to my students.

I was always upset that my female students never picked on this issue and become ... anything ... moved or slightly flustered.

Today, 10 years later, I know much more and realize that these female students already knew the truth.

Men are allowed to act as such because the women let them.

Sure, women don't lead lives as career excutives in Japan and spend time pouring tea for the men. They even put up with the lazy husbands who lay on the floor while watching TV. They even let their husbands indulge in a tilly tally with a cuty from the office, as long as the husband denies that the lipstick mark on his collar is not the cutey's but blames it on the crowded rush hour train obasan! Women will also pour their husband's beer!

At what price does this come at? sounds like a male heaven ?

lol and behold - the human male species has been swindeled.

My situation might be extreme but I'm married to Japanese lady.

Women in Japan have it made! NO balding due to stress.
With the advent of automated salary deposits to the bank account men have lost their last stonghold of power. Japanese men (including me) live on allowance that barely covers a beer after work. Wives have full financial control of the household. Wives take care of the children's up-bringing. They are the ones who let their husbands behave like children.
Sure, they have low status in the work enviornment but this pays off since work is normally an area to find a well salaried husband who will be able to cover the woman's living expenses. Sure, child rearing can be a 24 hour job in the begingin but once schooling starts the women are left to lounge around the house, go shopping, have affairs, enjoy life to return slightly before the husband and return home to make dinner. Men aren't allowed to complain about the $1,000 Louis Viotton bags but a new set of golf clubs require negotiations with the wife (err computer for me). Women will divorce their husbands after the retirement check comes. Men are supposed to listen and accept their wives complaining in a manly fashion (even if it contiues hours and hours).

Having been married 4 years I have come to understand why more women in Japan don't want to push for the ERA that their American counter parts want. Japanese women don't need rights that would actually limit their powers. (ie, the American President is so strong because his position is the only one that doesn't have oodles and oodles of laws controlling what a President can and can not do).

Ever wonder why you hear all these stories of Japanese men working until all hours of the night in Japan ... why the working day is actually hours and hours of over-time ... I see colleauges working till 9pm where I work. why? Possibly because work = freedom for men in Japan.

I want equal rights!!!

Back to resonableness. Like I mentioned above, when I first came to Japan I pushed and talked alot about equality but ... not knowing the social situation and acting like an American ... lead some of the people around me to look at me strangely. Understanding the situation and then preceding is very important.

Although, I was being sarcastic in parts above ....

I still think that round the world there are many women being taken advantaged of and something should be done to correct those problems.

so ... yes Debs I agree with you.

hmmm ... I wonder in reality who is more equal ??? but then ... it proably depends on how and where this is viewed from ...

tosh
05-05-02, 02:56
Women have a backup copy of the "x" chromasome (i ought to get a spell-checker).

akemi
05-05-02, 09:27
Are men and women equal? In the sense that this asks are they the same in all ways, then the answer is obviously no. There are clearly cultural, economic, cognitive and physical differences between men and women - as there are between different individual men and between different individual women. That is a natural and healthy diversity.

Should they have equal protection under the law and an equal say in the democratic process? Yes.

I am uncomfortable with rules and schemes that are set up with the aim of providing a certain percentage of women in various kinds of employment and position. Unless they are interpreted *VERY* flexibly, they end up making the women feel like token placements and depriving qualified and deserving men of opportunities - thus creating bad feeling that makes the real situation for women seeking positions on merit even worse.

If practices are in place to allow men and women to work at their full potential, then successful women will rise to all positions without the need for quotas or preferential selection.

moyashi
05-05-02, 10:37
here here to Akemi!

Finally somebody that thinks similarly as I do.

Although being a white male, I still feel the best person for the job is the best.
No color, creed, sex, manner should make a difference. Sadly though it still does in reality.
Me and my partner employee 3 people. They happen (once again happen) to be women, we did not choose male/female just went on best interview and ability. Our best employee is actually handicapped, she can't use her right hand. Her ability outweighs the fact that she is really slow typing and we are very happy she's on the team.

However, I wonder how much of a handicap it is too be schooled in a poverty level school district. Is it the social conditions that keep motivated kids out of range of decent jobs? Or is it actually the education that they recieve?

I wonder ....

deborah gormley
05-05-02, 14:14
@ Akemi,

you are positively right in your account of percentage, this is unnessacary and if the work can be carried out by both sexs then why introduce the percentage equation at all, probably to prevent the male population from hanging on to old values such as the ones I mentioned earlier, there I jusy contredicted myself did'nt I,haha ( nows who's confused haha)

@ Moyashi

To make a remark on the handicapped situation,
These less fortunate than ourselves, should be given the oppertunity to prove their worth and show the world that you "dont read a book by its cover", I have been fortunate enough to work with a few handicapped people in my time and although they did'nt talk much their work was incredable and once again they where also female.

@ tosh

haha you better believe it. (kidding of course tosh.)

Debs.

deborah gormley
05-05-02, 23:33
I'v done a little home work on my own country, and as it stands to day, 49% of the population is male and the other 51% female, how ever only 6% of the most top rancking and best paid jobs are held by the females, so whats the problem? is it the fact that woman who have familys are less likely to hold such a position because of family commitments, or that its just that we dont want or need the presure? men on the other hand are less prone to worry about family commitments, and in some form enjoy the presures of work because of this lack of family commitment, (by family commitment I refer to ill children and the preperation of the meals ect; hahaha). The answers I dont have, but the questions I have plenty,

debs.

moyashi
06-05-02, 05:39
I can see this happen but still ....
1.) :kaioken: 2.) :flame: moyashi

Let's shed a little more on the subject.

Ever since I was little I liked Thatcher for being a female Prime Minister (I'm not sure if she did a good job or not, but still I liked her).

I hope that Hilary will run for Presidency this next round.
She sure does seem to be aiming for the spot. NY Senator (or was it Congress)

Now, why haven't there been more female politicians? Or for broadness ... more female CEO's?

I wonder if other women have something to do with this.
....
IS it really just men holding women back?
...
Do women really want to discover that stress does lead to baldness?

...... ?

thomas
06-05-02, 09:16
Originally posted by moyashi
Now, why haven't there been more female politicians? Or for broadness ... more female CEO's?

Do women really want to discover that stress does lead to baldness?Perhaps my views are too stereotypical, but politics and corporate tactics demand a great deal of ruthlessness and striving for power. Women are just more mature. Boys love to sit in the sandbox and compare the size of their toys if you know what I mean.

It's this maturity that makes women appear much more professional in their undertakings. While I was studying I always took care to take my exams with female professors, they just seemed to be fairer and more unbiased towards students.

Just rambling, still have to have my coffee [yawn]... :)

Koji
06-05-02, 22:13
Men and women are not nessesarily equal . It is easy for men to gain in muscle . It's just because of the natural disin of men and women . In social statis in many countries women have to cover their faces and body intirly . Women arent aloud to talk, laugh or anything in public. In roalty Engalnd is one of the only countries where the female portion is in controll, in ancient Japanese government The Empirer is in control . In the USA women have never ben president and aren't expected to when elections[polls].
So men and women are equal in American rights but not everywhere . Last year in Turky a new law was past saying women can't wear shots, short sleaves, or sandels .

deborah gormley
06-05-02, 22:50
@koji

WOW nows theres something I did'nt know!
Thank god I dont live in turkey I'd be burn at the stake, haha

Now to something more serious, after reading your reply I'v realised that its the men who believe we are not equal, not just the man in the street but the man in the goverment office, who makes the decissions for our countrys, and its his portrayal of women that is causeing the problem, so its almost black and white that the two sex's will never be equal, his fear of being over powered by a female (such as Mother done) and dictated too has caused him to bully or dictate what these females can do, and in return he feels strong and impowered.

What do you think Koji?

Its just abit of fun, don't take affence at my words please, its just my version of what happens in state offices, not on the forum, haha

deborah gormley
12-05-02, 01:32
Its more than clear, that both sexs shall probably never be equal.

But they should always be respected and treated with the utmost courtesy.

Woman have been battleing for equal rights and equal standards of wage ect; and in doing so thier profile has been raised to the effect that it has nearly run off the scale, if a strong woman now gets a so called tough position, she has to prove her worth and rearrange the entire team that she has working under her control just to get thier attension,but once she has grasped it, she wont let it go easily.

But lets face it, all woman enjoy the courtesy shown to them by men, opening doors, calling for your cab, paying for the meal ect; I hope that it remains like that for a long time and equality does not effect the mannerisums or the traditions of men, that would be a price in my opinion "way too high"

Dluxon
16-06-02, 20:36
Moyashi hit it right on the head in his first big post on the thread. I've been married to Noriko now 7 years, being together now for nearly 10 years total, most of the time living in Japan. Reading that was definitely a reality check on life in Japan for women (and men for that matter).

Times seemed to have changed as compared to over 10 years back. The newer generation (the chapatsu generation) seems to be quite more bold and agressive as compared to their parent's generation. But, in the same breath it seems that the IQ has dropped somewhat from all of the orange (used to be silver / gray) hair coloring and fake tans! (But, a side note, I think the short skirts look GREAT!!)

Noriko has really taught me how things run for the salary women working in Tokyo. The glass ceiling is 5 feet thick. Just by looking at the classified adds for employment, you can see that there are age limitations for women applying for positions in the work force. And then there is the "OH MY GOD....I'm 32 years old and over the hill." As she has told me (especially when she was coming to that age <a while back:)> that supervisors will strongly attempt to railroad female employees out of the workforce. Salaries between males and females holding the same positions are far from equal too.

Dana

moyashi
17-06-02, 02:15
It looks like I forgot to mention what Dana touched on.

Women after getting close to 30 are normally thought of as "baby producers" sorry for the harsh words. So, many companies don't want to have to deal with women later taking leave and coming back and taking work off to care for a sick child. Very limited view points on their parts but I've heard and seen many such cases, including my wife.

Also, at a time. Many companies would hire women just based on their CV / resume photos. Possibly as an attempt to help their male employees to find wives, not necessary just to be pretty office flowers.

This baby business is quite possibly the reason why women will never really capture elite positions in companies that men made.

Reality sucks sometimes.

Although, some women went off and have started very lucrative businesses on their own.

smart!

deborah gormley
14-07-02, 13:29
came across this today:note:

www.eoc.org.uk/index.html

moyashi
23-08-02, 15:28
site is down

deborah gormley
23-08-02, 21:48
oops I'l see if I can find an alternative, sorry!

tariqfayyaz
24-08-02, 06:34
Originally posted by deborah gormley
I dont know what to believe,
If we are, then in what?
Work?, Home life?, What path we take as a couple? or just when it comes to paying thoses nasty bills?
Post your veiw and have your say,you can even have a vote on it.

Men & Women are equal in rights but different in duties. Women have more responsibilty than man to manage, plan and nurture the future of mankind by training the new generation while man are supposed to take care of all the needs of women in order to facilitate their noble role that requires a lot of sacrifices.
women have the role of thinkers while the role of men is to act.

tariqfayyaz
24-08-02, 06:39
Men & Women are equal in rights but different in duties. Women have more responsibilty than man to manage, plan and nurture the future of mankind by training the new generation while man are supposed to take care of all the needs of women in order to facilitate their noble role that requires a lot of sacrifices.
women have the role of thinkers while the role of men is to act.

deborah gormley
25-08-02, 01:28
@tarigfayyaz:bow:




"plan and nuture the future of mankind by training the new generation, while man are supposeed to care for all the needs of woman in order to facilatate the future role thats requires a lot of sacrifice"


:bow: :bow: Please explain!!!! at what price do you pay equal rites ??? Men suffer , tell us all how????:blush:

tariqfayyaz
27-08-02, 06:05
Please explain your question in detail-as much as i understood, here is the reply-Imight have misunderstood it.
"rites are priceless, no matter at what price they have to pay. One cannot be deprive of any rite just because we can not bear the price. Justice at any cost."

deborah gormley
28-08-02, 16:23
@tariqfayyaz:bow: :bow:

I do beg your pardon:bow: I misunderstood your post by a slight but very relavant mistaken point of veiw, and for that please accept my opoligies,:blush:
I have re-looked over your post and this time I am not so tierd as before, and I have taken the time to digest your very wise and very true point of veiw,(with my eye-wear where they should be) and my last post was an abstact from yours with the very important first few words of your sentence missing the words being
Women have more responsibilty than man to manage plan and nuture ect,, ,,, this was the reason for my misunderstanding, and in future I will wear my glasses at this desk and prevent this from happening again!!!

SORRY!!! (do you forgive me tariqfayyaz ???)

tariqfayyaz
03-09-02, 13:33
Deborah u do not have to be apologetic.
Lets take today the physical aspect of women:
Physically women are superior as their body is more complex (can perform more functions)than men.

moyashi
03-09-02, 19:05
I think that women can stand up to pain better than men can, too.

More complex ... hehe ... how frightfully true. Men are just "plain and simple beast" compared to women ... lolo ... Yes, I really think that about men.

deborah gormley
04-09-02, 01:55
@ tariqfayyaz
thank-you for being so understanding :bow:

@
Physically women are superior as their body is more complex (can perform more functions)than men this point of veiw I must agree with how-ever I have yet to meet a woman with the same physical upper strenght as a man, women have complex bodies because of thier unique fuctions, men are in my opinion just as unique,(one can't use its fuction properly without the other:bluush: ) but its the upper physical strenght that sets the men apart in that feild, it comes naturally and it is used at times as a threat(unfortunately)against both sexs, here a man is superior:auch:

@
women can stand up to pain better than men This I also agree with,, apparently (hehe) women have a greater pain barrier than men,??? this as far as I know is scentific fact,
please correct me if I am wrong!! it is apparently (hehe) due to the inner strenght that woman pocess, it was described to me once as follows " a great footballer gets a groin strain during a final match, he decides to try to run the pain off, and because of his stamina and physical ability it works, he plays on till the final whistle, then attends hospitals for months later to repair the damage" woman are said to be the stamina. lolol:bow:

samuraitora
04-09-02, 18:33
I am not even getting into this discussion...my hands would cramp from writing too much...lOl

one thing..."GO WOMEN"...

deborah gormley
06-09-02, 13:46
[email protected] samuritora,, I'm still giggling at your sence of humour,, (brilliant):clap: :bow:

Alex
10-09-02, 17:21
I just read this entire thread and it's very interesting to read your views. Some I agree with and some I don't. (Sorry, Deb, some of us don't like the door to be held for us. For some it feels too patronizing.) Of course men and women are equal, but that doesn't mean we're the same. All humans have our strong points and our weak points, but it all balances out in the end. What's needed is mutual respect and the acknowledgement that no one group is better than another. With that said, I'm feeling a little concerned. There's a lot of information out there about western men being in relationships with Japanese women, but not too much about western women and Japanese men. If what I've read here about the gender roles in Japan is true, then we have a problem. Definately both the western woman and the Japanese man would have to be unusual for their respective groups. What do you think?

moyashi
10-09-02, 19:02
hmmm, I'm a guy. So, of course, I can only reply as one :)

I've met and seen quite a few western women in Japan. Some hook up with Japanese men others with other foreign men. Some women have mentioned the lack of male companionship. why? why? why? I've also been bitched at for not dating western women. lololo ... why?

I know that a lot of my male friends would love to have a (ahem) blond girlfriend. Yet, many would just love to have a foreign girlfriend just in general.

I guess one problem is that many men aren't self-confident enough to go for it. Would it be a language problem or a just a male tool lack of confidence problem. My buddies are pretty manly and what not but they just don't seem to have the balls (ahem ... sorry) to approach a foreign female.

I wonder how many Japanese get turned down for not having enough money? Or just looking not manly enough? Or just get turned down for being too short?

Now, relationships.
I'd say that many Japanese men are traditional but from what I've seen in my age group along the lines of "Leave it to Beaver" (using a 50-60's tv show as reference from the states here).

Lady takes care of the home and the man is the bread winner. Getting tea and what not normally doesn't even go well with the younger generations so men have learned to get their own beers. My sister-in-law serves her husband, while I serve my wife. I guess it just depends on who you run into.

I don't know if I'd say "unusual" but I'd say that it takes a bit of understanding each other as humans. Not gaijin and nihonjin, but ningen and ningen.

Alex
12-09-02, 20:50
Interesting explanation, Moyashi. Not at all unexpected. I was reunited with my Japanese male friend Tuesday night and we both drank enough that I got many questions answered. He admitted that he's a coward. Too bad. Now we're established good buddies, but we both know that there was an attraction on both sides. It's kind of wierd, but I'm going with it. The point is that there were characteristics that were not American that I really liked. Others were very difficult. Bottom line: I think I've got to make my way to Japan - either that or one of the nearby Japanese communities here in CA - and meet some Japanese men. Height isn't an issue. I'm 5'1". Money? Well, I don't want a homeless guy! Hey, introduce me to some of your buddies!

moyashi
12-09-02, 21:37
We have [bo-nen-kai] "end of the year" parties. Normally, the main party is close to 150 men. No women allowed. It's our night out and we stop girls at the door. It's just a lot of joking, eating, drinking, and lewd jokes for the first 2 hours, after which women are invited.

My buddies are part of the rough side of society. construction workers, carpenters, plumbers, used car salesmen, used clothing shop owners, dry cleaners, tatami makers, ex-yakuza. You name it, we are the dregs of the Japanese society.

You interested?

Where in CA are you?

I used to live in Oxnard, Santa Barbara and San Diego.

Alex
13-09-02, 00:47
Hummm. . .
Dregs of society - Are you trying to discourage me? Do you at least have some in sheep's clothing? A little roughness is cool, but I'd like to find someone with some similar interests (silly me!). You used to teach English, right? Well, that's my world - ESL. Someday I'd like to make that EFL.

What the heck, if anyone's interested in an e-pal I'm here. They just have to know English. My first Japanese lesson is this Saturday!

I live in Fullerton. Are you originally from CA?

moyashi
13-09-02, 18:09
Not originally but rather south of the Falls. Moved out during high school.

Ahh, I get it. Hmmm, you should come over on the ELT program. Lot's of teachers ( ;) ) I bet you'd love the work. It's the ELT program with it's faults but you'd get a chance to visit many schools and get to experience what goes on in real schools comapred to the regular Eikaiwa scene.

@email pal
I'll keep my eyes and ears open :)

Alex
13-09-02, 21:01
Thanks moyashi!

Hey, I found a site where I can create some e-pals in Japan. New friends - cool! I've already gotten some responses! This is fun.

moyashi
14-09-02, 19:30
glad to hear that :)

tariqfayyaz
05-10-02, 10:55
if we really want to know about the right answer to this problem - the right way could be when a machine goes wrong we take out the operating manual and try to find out the problem- even in this case we have to consult the "Operating Manual of Men & Women".
if u are interested to find out where can we find this manual plz contact me.

moyashi
06-10-02, 17:27
hmmm? A secret manual passed down through the generations?

You got my interest here that's for sure.

deborah gormley
07-10-02, 00:15
hmmm a secret manual indeed,lol,, this must be a joke right? I am so interested in this, I'm looking forward to tariqfayyaz posting a small paragraph of this wise book so we can see if its real,lol and who knows we just might learn how to deal and charm the oppisite sex :clap: :note: While on an equal/unequal status of course:happy: :bow:

Iron Chef
09-04-03, 16:49
Should they be equal? Absolutely. Are they in fact equal? Nopers... The fact that here in the U.S. despite all of our so-called cultural advancements we have never had a woman president or vice-president pretty much says it all about the "good 'ol boys" mentality/monopoly I think (at least in the political arena). Heck, the civil rights movement that provided a revolutionary turning point was NOT that long ago yet it's well documented women still earn less than their male counterparts for the exact same work. For a chronological timeline of global women's suffrage (right to vote) check out the following link:

http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/suffrage.htm

By far and away, the majority have taken place within only the last century or so with some countries today still denying women that most basic right of an equal vote.

Re: Japan's issues of gender inequality, I don't think anyone will disagree that there exists a gross disparity in perceptions and actuality. I've always found it odd that I could enter any government office and see every female employee wearing the same uniform (imposed conformity?) while every male employee is entitled to wear their own apparel as they see fit. And to this day, I don't ever recall a male employee in said office ever bringing me tea or coffee when offered, rather that duty somehow always fell on the shoulders of the nearest female employee to drop whatever she was doing at the time...

Just some food for thought.
8-)

kirei_na_me
09-04-03, 16:56
Agreed, Iron Chef. We just like to think we have made progress when we really havent made much progress at all.


while every male employee is entitled to wear their own apparel as they see fit

hehe...my husband cannot wear whatever he wants, but he's not a government worker, of course. He must wear a suit and tie every single day, even though he has to work on very heavy and dangerous machinery. He is also not allowed to highlight his hair or grow facial hair.

I do know that he and the other men in his company do leave the coffee making and food fetching to the Okinawan secretary, though. They've got the American plant manager taking advantage of it too.

Chipi
13-04-03, 13:06
Well, first of all, I think one cannot answer this question just with a simple "yes" or "no". There are so many things you have to consider. And does the question mean equality in general, through the world, or just in Japan, U.S.A or...??
Because if were talking about the world in general, then no way, women and men are not even close to beeing equal. It really should be that way though. I think its in a way even silly to separate these "two races", men and women, since we are human. All of us.
Traditions vary from country to country, and I do feel its important to respect these traditions. To a certain limit. If the traditions dont act as a 100% part of ones life all the time its ok I think.
I think the question of being equal is quite personal in the end...every woman and man is different, and have their own feeling about just how equal they want to be. There should be the possibilities always though, to have the same jobs for example, and to choose if they want to be "housewifes" and "housemen"..(errmm...sorry for the clumsy expression :))

Equality in Finland is quite good, but there are some flaws. Some old customs, prejudices and so on that prevent women of doing some things freely etc. And the salary issue- women do have a worse paycheck in some jobs than the men doing the same job. Thats simply just_wrong_.

I think everyone just should have the freedom of being what they are, doing what they feel, without looking first if theyre women - or men.


Originally posted by moyashi
hmmm, I'm a guy. So, of course, I can only reply as one :)

I wonder how many Japanese get turned down for not having enough money? Or just looking not manly enough? Or just get turned down for being too short?


And I have to say to these questions presented by moyashi, that its really so stupid to turn down someone just because they dont have enough money, or they are"too short".
Who actually even needs this kind of people, proud, cold and bitchy, just looking at the pretty picture, forgetting whats inside?
Sure, looks do count quite a lot in feeling attraction, but seriously, counting inches in somebodys height is just ridiculous. I say good luck and courage to you and your friends :)

Gaijinandtonic
04-08-03, 10:53
Seems to me that this question of equal rights fails to recognise a key element. Rights cannot be attained in the absence of additional responsibility. When you gain a right, you have almost always done so at a cost to the benefits previously enjoyed by another party (rightly or wrongly). Often, these benefits have been coupled with increased responsibility. It seems to me that much of the 'equal rights for women' movement has essentially been about gaining rights for women but has deliberately avoided increasing the level of responsibility that women have to take for their lives. Thus men retain the majority of the burden but have lost many benefits over the last few decades.

maji
13-08-03, 11:37
women and men are not equal. they might only be equal in a very small area (sorry for the bad english) like between you and your partner, or you and very few friends.
but in general theyre not. first there are physical differences. then the stuff like who gets how much money for jobs. who gets what jobs at all. and then of course the way you are grown up by your parents. it already starts with them finding out ur a girl and dress you in pink when your little. then youre already pushed into a role. and even if we think we are free from those roles and expectations others put upon us, i dont know anyone who is. mostly it doesnt matter because most people are happy the way the society shaped them, but some are not.
but i guess im slowly sliding from the gender-equal topic to one about finding our true self (which is one of my fav topics) but which is not the subject of this discussion.
anyway, to sum it up in a nutshell, only among very few and good friends or ur partner (but im sure to 90% not even then) you are equal no matter your gender.

Maciamo
15-08-03, 11:21
Originally posted by Gaijinandtonic
Seems to me that this question of equal rights fails to recognise a key element. Rights cannot be attained in the absence of additional responsibility. When you gain a right, you have almost always done so at a cost to the benefits previously enjoyed by another party (rightly or wrongly). Often, these benefits have been coupled with increased responsibility. It seems to me that much of the 'equal rights for women' movement has essentially been about gaining rights for women but has deliberately avoided increasing the level of responsibility that women have to take for their lives. Thus men retain the majority of the burden but have lost many benefits over the last few decades.

Not sure about feminism in Saudi Arabia :confused: but in lots of Western countries, 90% of women work, and that is an effect of feminism. 50 years ago, women would stay at home and care for the house and children only. Nowadays, they still do it but have to work (often full-time) on top of it. Even if they are now able to reach powerful position in companies or politics, I feel in average they have been the big looser in this system. Men have gained the right to take paternity leaves and don't need to work as much because their wife now bring an additional (and equal ! in some countries...) salary back home. I think that's the main reason why people work less and have more holidays nowadays than a few decades ago. But once again I have no idea on you can feel about that if you live in Saudi Arabia, where women cannot go out without permission or show their face in public. They have a lot of rights to gain there.

Atmos_Fear
15-08-03, 13:45
man, so many post, but i read them all :)

if you ask me the answer is no, man and woman are not equal and they shouldn't be. Please don't get me wrong i'm no talking about the rights in the society. You can find the answer of this question in the very basic principles of nature. The strong wins

man it's so sad to see that some women doesn't know how to use their power. Women are strong that's for shure but some of them are just emancipate bitches. They think of men just as a sex tool. You can easy say the same for some mens ;)

Anyway i think that both woman and men need each other to be complete :happy:

Muppette
05-10-03, 00:11
Mentally, yes they are equal.

But when it comes to the work place it seems like women aren't equal. Why? Because in hiring women they take the risk of someone that could sue at any time for sexual harrasment or have a child at anytime they like and make the company lose money during their maternity leave. So we get paid less. Yay.

Tch. What's the use of going to college as a woman for higher learning when the fact isn't even recognized by companies. But when men go to college companies are like, "Yay! You have a penis! We give you lots of money! WE GIIIIIVE!"

I wonder why I have this overwhelming urge to stab something/someone right now... ___

Satori
15-11-03, 01:01
Oh, here's the thread with the poll included!! Sorry, I guess I responded to your other one that didn't include it. My answer for both threads is: Yes, men and women are equal--as human beings. Having said that, I don't think they are necessarily treated equally by society! :)

RedSun
03-12-03, 20:54
Originally posted by Koji
Men and women are not nessesarily equal . It is easy for men to gain in muscle . It's just because of the natural disin of men and women . In social statis in many countries women have to cover their faces and body intirly . Women arent aloud to talk, laugh or anything in public. In roalty Engalnd is one of the only countries where the female portion is in controll, in ancient Japanese government The Empirer is in control . In the USA women have never ben president and aren't expected to when elections[polls].
So men and women are equal in American rights but not everywhere .
Last year in Turkey a new law was past saying women can't wear shots, short sleaves, or sandels .

Last year in Turkey a new law was past saying women can't wear shots, short sleaves, or sandels

Could you give us an evident? Present the related law statement??

I live in Turkey. My sister sometimes wear miniskirt and of course bikini when we go to beach.

I just joined this group but now getting a little frustrated... People who have never seen or lived in Turkey TALK about Turkey... Be a little observant.

Eisuke
03-12-03, 21:30
In most developed countries men and women are equal by law. However in the societies itself males still have more power, influence, better paid etc etc. I think that also has got to do with nature. lol I think that says enough hehe :)

Neesh
04-12-03, 05:51
my vote goes to no.

Ronin
04-12-03, 06:07
I believe that they are equal as far as one not being more or less important then the other. But there are so many differences. I think they complement one another, where one is weak where the other is strong.

Neesh
04-12-03, 06:17
Originally posted by Ronin
I believe that they are equal as far as one not being more or less important then the other. But there are so many differences. I think they complement one another, where one is weak where the other is strong. I agree what you're saying with the other is strong and one is weak part.

Hachiko
10-05-04, 18:09
Nope. You can blame the people who shut down the Equal Rights movement for that. Also, men and women have never been equal for the past 10 milleniums or so.

Here's proof (http://www.csulb.edu/~jsalaza5/college/womeninprehistory.html)

duff_o_josh
20-05-04, 19:59
i think that men need to be liberated once again, our rights our sliding and we get treated worse slowly every day. just from what i have observed ;)

tariqfayyaz
21-05-04, 07:00
Question: why men behave with the women equally?
Answer: Because Women let them do this.
Reasons: ?

Question: why men do not treat women equally?
Answer: Because women let them do this.
Reason:?

nekosasori
21-05-04, 12:38
Actually no, while I think they should be paid equally for the same work (they're not; women still earn about 70 cents to every dollar men receive in the western world) and while different doesn't have to mean unequal, there are many reasons why there is blatant inequality.

Schools of thought like religions (not all, just several major ones) and philosophy (Confucianism comes to mind) have all contributed to instilling the mindset that women should feel, act, and be treated as man's inferior. The truth is that women, from a bigger picture perspective, are far more important than men. That is especially obvious now biologically speaking, since we can combine female DNA and create viable embryos without any sperm. And I think subconsciously men have always felt peripheral to society, and thus have overcompensated for this in both good ways and bad.

To a limited extent I agree with Tariq - oppression continues today because there are women who are afraid to embrace a positive definition of feminism, and who do not appreciate that they now have more choices available to them (in the western worlds) even if they're not choosing the non-traditional options for themselves. Hardly anything angers me more than when women hinder progress for other women. I do not hate all men, but do resent that because men have more muscle and mass on the whole, generations of women have been oppressed in many ways by a subset of men who were insecure about their place in the world, and decided to propagate violence and other atrocious acts in order to subjugate women.

aaltunn
21-05-04, 14:11
Last year in Turky a new law was past saying women can't wear shots, short sleaves, or sandels .

i am from turkey but i d never heard of that???? :?


the first woman fighter pilot sabiha gken is from turkey.she involved many hot missions. Her name was given to an airport. :-)

turkey shows a heterogenious mass body...so daily life of people changes from east to west turkey,but to be a woman at turkey is not so different from any other countries.
we had a woman prime minister tansu iller...
and we got many active soldiers,police chiefs,fire fighters,navy captains and so on....

tariqfayyaz
22-05-04, 06:18
Now women have free choice to select a man of their choice, They should and could select a man that will treat them equally and if they feel he can not the women should clearly express their true feelings to him and if he refuse to change simply say good bye, you will eventually find your choice-Do not compromise on the phrase 'I Love Him' .

Duo
07-06-04, 01:56
. Last year in Turky a new law was past saying women can't wear shots, short sleaves, or sandels .

I don' think that's correct. Turkey has a secular state, and is not a Muslim state like many people think. True, they do have a majority of people being of the Muslim religion, but the State of Turkey itself is secular.


@koji

WOW nows theres something I did'nt know!
Thank god I dont live in turkey I'd be burn at the stake, haha


I should tell this one to my turkish friend :D

Seriously though, last summer I went to Antalya and Kemer, Western Turkey by the sea, great place for vacation, and all the girls I saw were dressed in shorts, tops, skirts etc, showing exact amount of flesh as the girls back here in Western Europe .:p Also, Turkey is a very popular location for British tourists, especially adolescent girls lookin for an adventure with men from the mysterious orient :blush: :blush: :p :p. Kidding about this part, but is true that a lot of british tourists and many other western europeans hit western Turkey every year. Where I was staying, in Kemer, it was mostly Russian tourits, and trust me, those Russian girls really want to get some sun exposore, so this law about now wearing shorts or watever seems a little dubious :? .
I just had to get that out, didnt' mean to offend anyone, just saying what I saw personally.

Back to the issue of men and women, I think that yes men and women are both equal in nature. Both fulfill a distinct role of the same value and are therefore equal in the purpose of life. However, this is not to say that men and women are the SAME. I feel that this is a misconception that a lot of feminst have. Also I do think that today women are dominated by men, not in the sense of restrainment of freedoms, but in the sense that many women keep seeing themselves through a man's eyes. Until women break this spell, we men will continue to have a slight upper hand in society, but also let's not forget that is the female sex that decides on our gene flow, meaning they have more sexual control on men than vice versa, so this kind of brings us in an equilibrium if u will.

Buddha Smoker
12-06-04, 15:31
I feel men and women are equal and should be. But, I think they are not treated equal especially by laws and work.

Mycernius
23-02-05, 23:50
Women equal to men, Ha! Us men might make it some day but for now we suffer :-)
Seriously though, equal rights still has a long way to go in society. There still exists a glass ceiling for most women when climbing the career ladder and countries are still run by a majority of men. This might annoy a few people, but I see America having a black president before they have a female one. It's all to do with who earns the most, and most millionaires are men.
As for biology, men and women will never be equal. Evolution made the sexes different because of the function each one has in the social gruop. Men hunt, that is why men have a better spacial awareness than women. To be able to judge distances, when to attack. Women have better peripherial vision because they were the gathers. Better to see around you when searching for food and keeping an eye on the children. You can't change that, it's biological, despite what the PC lobby wants to believe.

Sally_Hawn
26-02-05, 06:39
Men and women can never be equal because women are much stronger and smarter.

Duo
26-02-05, 06:51
Men and women can never be equal because women are much stronger and smarter.

Men and women can never be equal because men are much stronger and smarter ;)

Index
26-02-05, 10:21
Men and women can never be equal because men are much stronger and smarter ;)

I haven't encountered such a bizarre comment in a long time. I suppose you think blacks can never be equal to whites because they are [insert adjective] and [insert adjective].

The discussion about men being equal to women is a moot point anyway. It is much more productive to encourage diversity which gives enpowerement and freedom rather than focusing on the things that men can do but women can't, or vice versa. Do we say horses are not equal to cows because they cannot supply milk in the same way? Of course not, but we take into account what each species' strengths are and utilize them.

Duo
26-02-05, 12:43
I haven't encountered such a bizarre comment in a long time. I suppose you think blacks can never be equal to whites because they are [insert adjective] and [insert adjective].

The discussion about men being equal to women is a moot point anyway. It is much more productive to encourage diversity which gives enpowerement and freedom rather than focusing on the things that men can do but women can't, or vice versa. Do we say horses are not equal to cows because they cannot supply milk in the same way? Of course not, but we take into account what each species' strengths are and utilize them.

I was just being sarcastic about the post above mine, plese scroll up :souka:

Mycernius
26-02-05, 13:20
I haven't encountered such a bizarre comment in a long time. I suppose you think blacks can never be equal to whites because they are [insert adjective] and [insert adjective].

The discussion about men being equal to women is a moot point anyway. It is much more productive to encourage diversity which gives enpowerement and freedom rather than focusing on the things that men can do but women can't, or vice versa. Do we say horses are not equal to cows because they cannot supply milk in the same way? Of course not, but we take into account what each species' strengths are and utilize them.
Horses aren't equal to cows? I'll have to go to the species equality board for this. Who said political correctness has gone mad :D

Doc
26-02-05, 22:31
Are men a women equal? Yes and no. It really depends on how you look at it. In some aspects men and women are like two peas in a pod and are the same. In other aspects men and women are complete opposites like like beef, chicken, or pork. They each have their own flavor and properties that make them different. Sure as human beings men and women are equal and should be treated as equals, but there are too many differences to just say men and women are equal down to last red blood cell.

Doc

Silverbackman
09-03-05, 06:00
As far as life-worth, yes men and women are equal. As far as politically, women are not equal. As much as we want it can never happen. Humans are a patriarcle species like a lion, chimpanzees, ect. as opposed to matriarcle species such as hyenas, bees, or ants.

I think it needs to remain this way to a certain extent. I think it is man's role to lead, provide, and take care of his woman and his family. Even give his life up if he had too. That is why he was created/evolved to be stronger than the female. So I am against women taking leadership positions such as prime minister or president. Even if a woman would make a just as good leader, I feel it is not their place in society. Also because I think it is up to the man to protect his woman, I don't think women should be in the military or police force. Just my opinion. I also think that unless the woman in the family has to help support her family that she should stay in the home and take care of her kids. I think children are best raised by their mothers rather than some day-care organization.

I am however very against unequal pay in the workforce toward women, and believe women should participate in society as much as men, including voting. I still think though some roles should be kept unto men such as leadership, protection, and main bread-winner. Just my opinion.

mygger
12-05-09, 12:37
Men and women are not necessarily equal in biological terms because their bodies are different. But they have equal by intelligence.

Gurka atla
14-07-13, 09:28
Not equal in the muslim society.

Power
11-02-14, 19:20
equal yes

the same = no

Aberdeen
11-02-14, 19:51
I think it should be fairly obvious that women are, on average, more intelligent and more socially adept than men. However, we men have an advantage in terms of brute strength, and that's often used unfairly to deny women economic, legal and social equality. How do we fix this problem? Laws can help, but social change is also necessary. I think one important step is to help men see that being stuck in a rigidly defined social order is also harmful to men. Instead of complaining about male privilege (even though they have a point), it might be more useful for feminists to explain how inequality is damaging on both sides of the equation.

Garrick
06-12-15, 13:33
I think it should be fairly obvious that women are, on average, more intelligent and more socially adept than men. However, we men have an advantage in terms of brute strength, and that's often used unfairly to deny women economic, legal and social equality. How do we fix this problem? Laws can help, but social change is also necessary. I think one important step is to help men see that being stuck in a rigidly defined social order is also harmful to men. Instead of complaining about male privilege (even though they have a point), it might be more useful for feminists to explain how inequality is damaging on both sides of the equation.

Key male advantage is not brutal strength.

Key advantage is strategic thinking.

How men developed better strategic thinking, probably due to hunting.

Women did not go to hunt and they did not develop strategic thinking as men.

To hunt animals especially large animals men had to make different strategies.

bicicleur
06-12-15, 13:49
Key male advantage is not brutal strength.

Key advantage is strategic thinking.

How men developed better strategic thinking, probably due to hunting.

Women did not go to hunt and they did not develop strategic thinking as men.

To hunt animals especially large animals men had to make different strategies.

it is not a matter of intelligence
it is a matter of interests

i am a civil engineer
when i graduated 3 % was female
when my son graduated 15 % was female
i don't think it will increase much more

some professions are male, others are female
it is a matter of interests

denying the differences is stupid
the differences are both physical and in the way of thinking

Garrick
06-12-15, 14:12
it is not a matter of intelligence
it is a matter of interests

i am a civil engineer
when i graduated 3 % was female
when my son graduated 15 % was female
i don't think it will increase much more

some professions are male, others are female
it is a matter of interests

denying the differences is stupid
the differences are both physical and in the way of thinking

Serious scientific research show that males are strategic, competitive, have more self-confident, take risk, believe more in yourself.

Women in two person competition avoid competitive schemes and they fail compete appropriately, also women have lower level of self-confidence and avoid taking risks.

And, after that, you're right, yes, denying differences is stupid.

kyrani99
06-12-15, 15:27
Serious scientific research show that males are strategic, competitive, have more self-confident, take risk, believe more in yourself.

Women in two person competition avoid competitive schemes and they fail compete appropriately, also women have lower level of self-confidence and avoid taking risks.

And, after that, you're right, yes, denying differences is stupid.

Who dominates the scientific research? Men do of course and are they going to say anything that puts them in a bad light? of course not. Women are infinitely better..there is no denying it.
God made man first but a master all ways makes a rough draft before the final masterpiece.

Consider the asserts.
Beauty
brains
shrewdness
They are the glue that holds communities together.
They work through a cooperative spirit (although there some these days deluded enough to try to be like men)
They are compassionate.
And of course self-confident.

Men have some assets but denying differences is stupid.. women are clearly superior.

Angela
06-12-15, 17:04
Who dominates the scientific research? Men do of course and are they going to say anything that puts them in a bad light? of course not. Women are infinitely better..there is no denying it.
God made man first but a master all ways makes a rough draft before the final masterpiece.

Consider the asserts.
Beauty
brains
shrewdness
They are the glue that holds communities together.
They work through a cooperative spirit (although there some these days deluded enough to try to be like men)
They are compassionate.
And of course self-confident.

Men have some assets but denying differences is stupid.. women are clearly superior.

Finally we get the truth! :) Physically, of course, there's no question. Nature designed it that way. Unfortunately, in terms of survival of the species, men are more expendable than women, at least while women are of child bearing age. Even in terms of "traits", I think it's perhaps slightly tilted in our favor. However, it's better not to confront the men with these facts. All that "self-confidence" is a bluff in my experience, bravado rather than confidence, and the male ego is actually rather fragile. Women are just more realistic.

Seriously, there are obviously some differences between the "average" male and the "average" female, but there is overlap at the margins to some extent. Was anyone "tougher" than Golda Meir or Margaret Thatcher, no matter what you thought of their politics? The important thing is that it takes both sets of traits to make the world go round.

Now I'll reveal my own stereotyping...for any profession where I want someone who is a worrier and pays a lot of attention to detail, I tend to hire women. So, all my doctors are women. They also have more compassion for suffering, and are more willing to listen instead of jumping to a diagnosis. My tax accountant and my tax lawyer are also women. So is my estate planner. I want careful, meticulous work, and I don't want the IRS to come calling. In other words, I don't want slick Lennie with all his questionable loopholes and flying by the seat of his pants. I want someone who's done her homework.

If I were acting as defense counsel, I would normally hope for a female judge, unless, of course, she used to be a prosecutor. If I'm acting for the prosecution, a male with experience in law enforcement would be ideal. So, if I don't have personal knowledge of the professional, I do tend to rely on these kinds of stereotypes.

You know, upon reflection, almost everyone I employ is a woman. The only exception is in very male dominated fields where there isn't much choice. I guess that shows how I feel about the relative strengths and weaknesses of each sex. :)

bicicleur
06-12-15, 18:31
Finally we get the truth! :) Physically, of course, there's no question. Nature designed it that way. Unfortunately, in terms of survival of the species, men are more expendable than women, at least while women are of child bearing age. Even in terms of "traits", I think it's perhaps slightly tilted in our favor. However, it's better not to confront the men with these facts. All that "self-confidence" is a bluff in my experience, bravado rather than confidence, and the male ego is actually rather fragile. Women are just more realistic.

Seriously, there are obviously some differences between the "average" male and the "average" female, but there is overlap at the margins to some extent. Was anyone "tougher" than Golda Meir or Margaret Thatcher, no matter what you thought of their politics? The important thing is that it takes both sets of traits to make the world go round.

Now I'll reveal my own stereotyping...for any profession where I want someone who is a worrier and pays a lot of attention to detail, I tend to hire women. So, all my doctors are women. They also have more compassion for suffering, and are more willing to listen instead of jumping to a diagnosis. My tax accountant and my tax lawyer are also women. So is my estate planner. I want careful, meticulous work, and I don't want the IRS to come calling. In other words, I don't want slick Lennie with all his questionable loopholes and flying by the seat of his pants. I want someone who's done her homework.

If I were acting as defense counsel, I would normally hope for a female judge, unless, of course, she used to be a prosecutor. If I'm acting for the prosecution, a male with experience in law enforcement would be ideal. So, if I don't have personal knowledge of the professional, I do tend to rely on these kinds of stereotypes.

You know, upon reflection, almost everyone I employ is a woman. The only exception is in very male dominated fields where there isn't much choice. I guess that shows how I feel about the relative strengths and weaknesses of each sex. :)

like i told in my previous post

it is not a matter of intelligence
it is a matter of interests

generally men are more competitive
modern society has abolished competitiveness
women feel better in such societies than men

the future will tell whether such societies are better or not

LeBrok
06-12-15, 20:43
like i told in my previous post

it is not a matter of intelligence
it is a matter of interests
Interests make you concentrate on a subject for a very long time, like to play chess or to buy cloths. This constant training of your brain, by concentrating on interests, makes a brain works much efficiently. Other-words it makes it more intelligent, at least in the field of interest.




generally men are more competitive
modern society has abolished competitiveness
women feel better in such societies than men The best example of male competitiveness is the last financial crises. Overwhelmingly male run financial institutions took too much of debt and risky deals. We need more women in banking system management to bring a proper balance in decision making.


the future will tell whether such societies are better or not The trend of emancipation of women in our western societies is ongoing since late 18 hundreds. It is nothing new nor radical about this idea anymore. The process is practically over, except perhaps inequality in pay. We can easily compare the western world of now to the one 150 years ago to pull firm conclusions. We are the future, already. Make your mind.

Garrick
06-12-15, 21:21
like i told in my previous post

it is not a matter of intelligence
it is a matter of interests

generally men are more competitive
modern society has abolished competitiveness
women feel better in such societies than men

the future will tell whether such societies are better or not

It is clear, men are more competitive it is male nature.

I don’t appreciate societies where women have fewer rights than men (as in some Islamic countries), the rights must be equal.

And man (men) should compete with man (men), woman (women) should compete with woman (women).

Man and woman should enjoy, and support each other, not compete (to possible extent).

Situations in society are changing, for example in socialism in Serbia women were very protected by the system, and progress was grandiose.

Society didn’t support competitiveness.

Some men, traditionally behaved, felt insecure, because there were women more successful of them, it was big change from patriarchal society to a socialist society in which women have gained full affirmation.

But with crisis at beginning of nineties everything changed, income has fallen, and women lost their positions.

Today, society in Serbia is capitalist and highly competitive (in conditions of lower income), and such situation is much better suited to men than women (of course successful men, men who are better in mutual competition with another men).

Garrick
06-12-15, 21:24
The best example of male competitiveness is the last financial crises. Overwhelmingly male run financial institutions took too much of debt and risky deals. We need more women in banking system management to bring a proper balance in decision making.


Of course women can be leaders, top managers and entrepreneurs, everyone should use his or her abilities.

Male nature is to be leaders (it doesn’t mean necessary alpha male), self-confident and sure in themselves what is learn and build (men are learning and maturing the whole life).

Fire Haired14
06-12-15, 21:33
Are men and women equal

Hell no!!!!!

EDIT: This video is very funny.

https://youtu.be/Z6UUAE2CXXM

Edit: Seriously though men and women are equal in value. However differnt in behavior and roles. This is what the left doesn't understand. Equal=Same, is not true. Just let people act natural and not worry about gender representation.

Angela
06-12-15, 21:34
It is clear, men are more competitive it is male nature.

I don’t appreciate societies where women have fewer rights than men (as in some Islamic countries), the rights must be equal.

And man (men) should compete with man (men), woman (women) should compete with woman (women).

Man and woman should enjoy, and support each other, not compete (to possible extent).

Situations in society are changing, for example in socialism in Serbia women were very protected by the system, and progress was grandiose.

Society didn’t support competitiveness.

Some men, traditionally behaved, felt insecure, because there were women more successful of them, it was big change from patriarchal society to a socialist society in which women have gained full affirmation.

But with crisis at beginning of nineties everything changed, income has fallen, and women lost their positions.

Today, society in Serbia is capitalist and highly competitive (in conditions of lower income), and such situation is much better suited to men than women (of course successful men, men who are better in mutual competition with another men).

I'm all for the enjoyment part, but that's after hours, so to speak. :) When I'm practicing my profession, I am directly competing against another person, that's the nature of my profession; there's nothing collaborative about it. More often than not that other person is a man. I give no quarter, and I expect none. Let the best "man" win, and that "man" is usually me, to toot my own horn. :) Oh, and it involves a great deal of strategic thinking, sometimes in preparation, but often on my feet as they say. Women, as well as men, come in different varieties.

Ed. I also don't at all buy this idea that women aren't competitive. They've always been competitive as heck in the "fields" open to them and remain so to this day, over looks, men, their children, even their houses and clothes. There are whole television shows devoted to the subject. Now that they are in other arenas, they're competitive there too. My daughter is a superb athlete, a better athlete than my son, in lacrosse, tennis, swimming, and she's extraordinarily competitive. I'm ashamed to admit that I've sometimes encouraged her to hold back just a trifle in the early courtship phases and not totally trounce a new boyfriend who might not be as adept as she is at all these things, but she absolutely won't hear of it. Her attitude is that if he can't take it that she's a better tennis player than he is, for example, he's not for her. Of course, there are some men who can beat her, but she doesn't much like it.:)

bicicleur
06-12-15, 21:40
Interests make you concentrate on a subject for a very long time, like to play chess or to buy cloths. This constant training of your brain, by concentrating on interests, makes a brain works much efficiently. Other-words it makes it more intelligent, at least in the field of interest.



The best example of male competitiveness is the last financial crises. Overwhelmingly male run financial institutions took too much of debt and risky deals. We need more women in banking system management to bring a proper balance in decision making.

The trend of emancipation of women in our western societies is ongoing since late 18 hundreds. It is nothing new nor radical about this idea anymore. The process is practically over, except perhaps inequality in pay. We can easily compare the western world of now to the one 150 years ago to pull firm conclusions. We are the future, already. Make your mind.

I'm not ready to make my mind on the basis of this.
The main basis for todays progress is because of the industrial revolution which happened in the early 18 hundreds.
This was a typical male achievement. You can argue women didn't have any part of it because they were not allowed. That is correct, but it was driven by technological improvements in a field in which most women are not interested by nature.
Well, even the digital revolution was mainly a male achievement, allthough it happened less then 50 years ago.
Now a medical revolution seems at hand, and that is a domain in which women are more interested.
There may come - I'm sure there will come - times when more male skills will be needed again. New challenges will arrive.

By the way, are you male or female? I always tought of you as a man, seeing your avatar.

You are a man - I now see your Y-DNA mentioned..

Garrick
11-12-15, 16:02
I'm all for the enjoyment part, but that's after hours, so to speak. :) When I'm practicing my profession, I am directly competing against another person, that's the nature of my profession; there's nothing collaborative about it. More often than not that other person is a man. I give no quarter, and I expect none. Let the best "man" win, and that "man" is usually me, to toot my own horn. :) Oh, and it involves a great deal of strategic thinking, sometimes in preparation, but often on my feet as they say. Women, as well as men, come in different varieties.

Ed. I also don't at all buy this idea that women aren't competitive. They've always been competitive as heck in the "fields" open to them and remain so to this day, over looks, men, their children, even their houses and clothes. There are whole television shows devoted to the subject. Now that they are in other arenas, they're competitive there too. My daughter is a superb athlete, a better athlete than my son, in lacrosse, tennis, swimming, and she's extraordinarily competitive. I'm ashamed to admit that I've sometimes encouraged her to hold back just a trifle in the early courtship phases and not totally trounce a new boyfriend who might not be as adept as she is at all these things, but she absolutely won't hear of it. Her attitude is that if he can't take it that she's a better tennis player than he is, for example, he's not for her. Of course, there are some men who can beat her, but she doesn't much like it.:)

Not about professions but relationships.

My attitude is that my girlfriend can have her business which she wants or she can support my business.

But I will not allow that she has competitive business, she takes my clients and she cooperates with my competitors.

It is red line, if she does it, the end, she is not more my girlfriend.

It is why I say that competitiveness is not good between man and woman, it kills relationships.

Angela
11-12-15, 18:14
Not about professions but relationships.

My attitude is that my girlfriend can have her business which she wants or she can support my business.

But I will not allow that she has competitive business, she takes my clients and she cooperates with my competitors.

It is red line, if she does it, the end, she is not more my girlfriend.

It is why I say that competitiveness is not good between man and woman, it kills relationships.

There I agree, of course. I assure you that it's very rare that a man I bested at work wound up calling me up for a date, although strangely a few do...I put it down to masochism. They were never for me, but some men do like to be dominated. It takes all kinds to make the world go round.

Heck, that kind of competition would ruin not just a romantic relationship, but family relationships and friendships.

LeBrok
12-12-15, 03:38
There I agree, of course. I assure you that it's very rare that a man I bested at work wound up calling me up for a date, although strangely a few do...I put it down to masochism. They were never for me, but some men do like to be dominated. It takes all kinds to make the world go round.

Heck, that kind of competition would ruin not just a romantic relationship, but family relationships and friendships.
I admire strong and independent women. I was never afraid of their dominance or never I felt a need to be better than them, just to show who is the boss or for my satisfaction. Generally, I love strong independent people to have around of all sexs. The last thing I want to do is to make constant decisions for them, to lead them by hand and worry about them all the time.

frontiersman
14-12-15, 01:46
what really sets women apart from men is sex drive. men want to bang pretty much any woman below a certain age and weight just by looking at them, women are the pickier sex, they are only interested in top tier men or in men who have something to offer in terms of resources and wealth. men have to work harder to find a partner and that alone is enough to give a totally different meaning to the male experience. in comparison any other difference or alleged difference pales or shrinks to insignificance.

Fire Haired14
14-12-15, 02:07
what really sets women apart from men is sex drive. men want to bang pretty much any woman below a certain age and weight just by looking at them, what really sets women apart from men is sex drive. men want to bang pretty much any woman below a certain age and weight just by looking at them, women are the pickier sex, they are only interested in top tier men or in men who have something to offer in terms of resources and wealth. men have to work harder to find a partner and that alone is enough to give a totally different meaning to the male experience. in comparison any other difference or alleged difference pales or shrinks to insignificance.

I watched a presentation online that says you're exactly correct. Male and female sex brains are very differnt. Respect, personality, power, and money turn women all. While men for the most part only care about physical attraction. In a lot of ways women are the object men have to work to get.

But there are many more differences between men and women. Body and voice are two unignorable differences. Behavior is another one but harder to define.

Angela
14-12-15, 22:03
Just because things are sometimes true, or even often true, doesn't mean they're always true. It's a mistake, in my opinion, to think in such stereotypical terms.

There are a lot of women who marry for love men who have nothing in terms of material possessions when they are courting or first married. I did it myself. All he had was a lot of college debt. :) If you're finding only women who want your money, you're looking in the wrong places.

There are women out there who partner with men who don't have a job and are alcoholics and/or drug addicts, and the women wind up supporting the whole family. It's happening more and more frequently because so many men want to be Peter Pan for the rest of their lives.

Human behavior can't be reduced to the kind of behaviors that have been described by some posters.

Nor are all men as highly sexed as the myth would have people believe; some just don't admit they're not. Trust me...women talk, and honestly, unlike men. It differs from individual to individual and even perhaps from group to group. While women who treat men as a sexual commodity may be in the minority, they exist, and the numbers are getting bigger all the time from what I can see. A lot of it has to do with power, which women never had, and the freedom from consequences brought by contraception. Speed of arousal and those kinds of things are different, but there's a lot of ED out there too and especially as men age, or so it seems from all the tv commercials.

Fire Haired14
15-12-15, 02:32
Just because things are sometimes true, or even often true, doesn't mean they're always true. It's a mistake, in my opinion, to think in such stereotypical terms.

There are a lot of women who marry for love men who have nothing in terms of material possessions when they are courting or first married. I did it myself. All he had was a lot of college debt. :) If you're finding only women who want your money, you're looking in the wrong places.

There are women out there who partner with men who don't have a job and are alcoholics and/or drug addicts, and the women wind up supporting the whole family. It's happening more and more frequently because so many men want to be Peter Pan for the rest of their lives.

Human behavior can't be reduced to the kind of behaviors that have been described by some posters.

Nor are all men as highly sexed as the myth would have people believe; some just don't admit they're not. Trust me...women talk, and honestly, unlike men. It differs from individual to individual and even perhaps from group to group. While women who treat men as a sexual commodity may be in the minority, they exist, and the numbers are getting bigger all the time from what I can see. A lot of it has to do with power, which women never had, and the freedom from consequences brought by contraception. Speed of arousal and those kinds of things are different, but there's a lot of ED out there too and especially as men age, or so it seems from all the tv commercials.

True. We're just pointing out trends.

Angela
19-12-15, 19:45
From a noted female geneticist, some insight on why it is still difficult for women to compete in certain very demanding fields:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/15/science/evelyn-witkin-and-the-road-to-dna-enlightenment.html?_r=0

"Your career began in a time when there were tremendous barriers against women entering the sciences. How were you able to do it?
I think it, in part, was because I had a lot of support from men.
My late husband, Herman Witkin (http://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1979/07/11/112116259.html?pageNumber=35), an experimental psychologist, was a real feminist. He believed my career was as important as his. For 10 years, he commuted four hours every day to his work in Brooklyn so that I could keep mine at Cold Spring Harbor. When our second child was an infant, he had a sabbatical. He wrote a book with the baby in his lap most of the time."

"Some time in the 1950s, Vannevar Bush (http://www.britannica.com/biography/Vannevar-Bush), who’d headed the Carnegie Institution (https://carnegiescience.edu/) of Washington — Cold Spring Harbor’s laboratory was its department of genetics — sent his college-age granddaughter to talk to me about family and career. “The secret,” I told her, “is to have a husband like Herman Witkin and boss like Vannevar Bush.”

How exactly was Bush helpful?
When I was pregnant with my first child, he came to my lab and said it was important to make scientific careers possible for women. What did I need? I told him, maternity leave and to return only part time. He said, “Done, and we’re not going to cut your salary because I know you’re going to do a full-time job.” That act alone made it possible for me to stay with my research."


That's the story in a nutshell. I'd add another man to the list: a woman's father. Practically every successful woman I've ever met had a father who validated her intelligence and drive and ambition; actually, more than validated them, he fostered them.

TDGBlitz08
03-02-16, 19:38
I got to say some of these comments are very funny, particularly those by people like Garrick. Saying that women should have "equal rights" yet can't compete against males, should only compete against females, etc. Talk about a hypocritical mindset - I guess women only have "rights" as long as those rights are convenient otherwise forget it.

I mean this really made me laugh



Key male advantage is not brutal strength.


Key advantage is strategic thinking.


How men developed better strategic thinking, probably due to hunting.


Women did not go to hunt and they did not develop strategic thinking as men.


To hunt animals especially large animals men had to make different strategies.


Really? I guess you don't know that some tribes have female hunters. The African Aka tribe for example - guys sit looking pretty babysitting while the wives go hunting. And that's just one tribe.


So what are they, aliens?




As for strategic thinking being a male only "skill" I call BS. I've seen plenty of men who are lucky they can think their way out of a wet paper bag without directions.




But then I am a woman, former military, and I have worked in VERY male dominated fields. This includes working security to help pay for my education at a mall infested with drug activity - drug dealers, gang members, and druggies - so bad that the police mostly turned a blind eye and would not step foot on the property unless someone was getting the sh&t kicked out of them or already dead. Or only when my male "strategic thinking" fellow security guards were threatened by guns after going up to two vehicles parked in the back, middle of nowhere, and banging on the passenger window - anyone with two eyes would know that that was a drug deal going down at 5000 paces.


Because I was always thinking, on the ball split second decisions, I never once had an issue at this mall for the 2 years I worked there. In fact, because I learnt swiftly the "lay of the land" I even ended up having the drug dealers - and a 6'4" tattooed like a road map patched Hellsangel member - actually going out of their way to tell me who among their "clients" were going to be an issue for the day or week.


It always makes me laugh, thinking back to that neighborhood and another mall I ended up working at, when two male security guards could not get a 18 year old boy [scrawny lanky runt] to go home and were actually thinking of charging him - as in tackling, etc. - despite how it was recorded three times this kid had been violent and oftentimes carried a weapon on him - he stabbed his step father with a broken wine bottle in broad daylight - and yet stepping out of my vehicle for shift change all I had to do was say his name and tell him to go home. He left shouting at the other "strategically thinking" male guards that I do 150% work for my job and these two were jokers.




I later went on to work in a mental health facility for the criminally insane. So by no means little wimps flexing muscle thinking themselves tough [we had cannibals, serial rapists, killers, psychopaths and sociopaths, etc.] I never had a run in because I was always thinking, again.




But if you equate strategic thinking with rush head first into situations - bull-headed, act first, think later - behavior then yes... males take that cake. Intelligent women are as strategically thinking if not more so because a) we're smaller and oftentimes physically weaker so it'd be hard to go one on one with some nut [you have to think on your feet how to handle a situation as a woman while men mostly rely on their strength].


Ultimately though, no women are not equal. Intelligence wise, yes certainly - my neighborhood here is plagued by "cool" guys who drive up and down a residential street well beyond the speed limit despite multiple signs saying school zone, school crossing, autistic & deaf children. Skill wise, certainly - or we wouldn't have a number of luxuries that men & women use to pamper their arses on a daily basis [a number of inventions are due to women].


Employment wise - hahah. Joke. My cousin graduated early in her engineering class, top of the class, her "job" is little more than a receptionist for some all boys' club company.


And I will say that. I believe in women's rights, equality, etc. However, within reason.


Don't scream "unfair" because you don't get your way... such modern-day attitude of so-called "feminist" probably makes the original feminists [who did voting, etc] roll in their graves. Even I get fed up with women screaming unfair - there was some "doctor" in the UK a couple months, a year maybe, who bitched she wasn't been taken seriously by her patients - she dressed in tight clothes, wore too much makeup, and dyed her hair blonde. I'd not have taken her seriously either.

Dalmat
03-02-16, 21:00
I'm all for the enjoyment part, but that's after hours, so to speak. :) When I'm practicing my profession, I am directly competing against another person, that's the nature of my profession; there's nothing collaborative about it. More often than not that other person is a man. I give no quarter, and I expect none. Let the best "man" win, and that "man" is usually me, to toot my own horn. :) Oh, and it involves a great deal of strategic thinking, sometimes in preparation, but often on my feet as they say. Women, as well as men, come in different varieties.

Ed. I also don't at all buy this idea that women aren't competitive. They've always been competitive as heck in the "fields" open to them and remain so to this day, over looks, men, their children, even their houses and clothes. There are whole television shows devoted to the subject. Now that they are in other arenas, they're competitive there too. My daughter is a superb athlete, a better athlete than my son, in lacrosse, tennis, swimming, and she's extraordinarily competitive. I'm ashamed to admit that I've sometimes encouraged her to hold back just a trifle in the early courtship phases and not totally trounce a new boyfriend who might not be as adept as she is at all these things, but she absolutely won't hear of it. Her attitude is that if he can't take it that she's a better tennis player than he is, for example, he's not for her. Of course, there are some men who can beat her, but she doesn't much like it.:)

you seem to have chip on your shoulder.

Ii personally dont find women who have mentality of just waiting to stick it up to the man very attractive.


My guess you wouldn't either find a man who just wont to stick it up to the women attractive either, you would probably think about him as sexist *******



It seems in new age there is a some kind of complex of women towards men building up by media and such, and i think its cancerous to society and civilization, men dont fear successful women, i think we are disgusted by them, because as i said before women like that usually are of mentality mentioned above.

Problem of course comes from sexes, and competitive nature of businesses, men dont have problem fighting other men, most of us find it natural actually, but fighting another women, men will either go batshit crazy and become sexist as a form of self defense, or withdraw

So my conclusion is that this trend if it continues, we will see more and more sexist men fighting sexist women, its a nature of competition. Is it a good thing or not, its up to every individual to decide

Sile
03-02-16, 21:35
I got to say some of these comments are very funny, particularly those by people like Garrick. Saying that women should have "equal rights" yet can't compete against males, should only compete against females, etc. Talk about a hypocritical mindset - I guess women only have "rights" as long as those rights are convenient otherwise forget it.

I mean this really made me laugh





Really? I guess you don't know that some tribes have female hunters. The African Aka tribe for example - guys sit looking pretty babysitting while the wives go hunting. And that's just one tribe.


So what are they, aliens?




As for strategic thinking being a male only "skill" I call BS. I've seen plenty of men who are lucky they can think their way out of a wet paper bag without directions.




But then I am a woman, former military, and I have worked in VERY male dominated fields. This includes working security to help pay for my education at a mall infested with drug activity - drug dealers, gang members, and druggies - so bad that the police mostly turned a blind eye and would not step foot on the property unless someone was getting the sh&t kicked out of them or already dead. Or only when my male "strategic thinking" fellow security guards were threatened by guns after going up to two vehicles parked in the back, middle of nowhere, and banging on the passenger window - anyone with two eyes would know that that was a drug deal going down at 5000 paces.


Because I was always thinking, on the ball split second decisions, I never once had an issue at this mall for the 2 years I worked there. In fact, because I learnt swiftly the "lay of the land" I even ended up having the drug dealers - and a 6'4" tattooed like a road map patched Hellsangel member - actually going out of their way to tell me who among their "clients" were going to be an issue for the day or week.


It always makes me laugh, thinking back to that neighborhood and another mall I ended up working at, when two male security guards could not get a 18 year old boy [scrawny lanky runt] to go home and were actually thinking of charging him - as in tackling, etc. - despite how it was recorded three times this kid had been violent and oftentimes carried a weapon on him - he stabbed his step father with a broken wine bottle in broad daylight - and yet stepping out of my vehicle for shift change all I had to do was say his name and tell him to go home. He left shouting at the other "strategically thinking" male guards that I do 150% work for my job and these two were jokers.




I later went on to work in a mental health facility for the criminally insane. So by no means little wimps flexing muscle thinking themselves tough [we had cannibals, serial rapists, killers, psychopaths and sociopaths, etc.] I never had a run in because I was always thinking, again.




But if you equate strategic thinking with rush head first into situations - bull-headed, act first, think later - behavior then yes... males take that cake. Intelligent women are as strategically thinking if not more so because a) we're smaller and oftentimes physically weaker so it'd be hard to go one on one with some nut [you have to think on your feet how to handle a situation as a woman while men mostly rely on their strength].


Ultimately though, no women are not equal. Intelligence wise, yes certainly - my neighborhood here is plagued by "cool" guys who drive up and down a residential street well beyond the speed limit despite multiple signs saying school zone, school crossing, autistic & deaf children. Skill wise, certainly - or we wouldn't have a number of luxuries that men & women use to pamper their arses on a daily basis [a number of inventions are due to women].


Employment wise - hahah. Joke. My cousin graduated early in her engineering class, top of the class, her "job" is little more than a receptionist for some all boys' club company.


And I will say that. I believe in women's rights, equality, etc. However, within reason.


Don't scream "unfair" because you don't get your way... such modern-day attitude of so-called "feminist" probably makes the original feminists [who did voting, etc] roll in their graves. Even I get fed up with women screaming unfair - there was some "doctor" in the UK a couple months, a year maybe, who bitched she wasn't been taken seriously by her patients - she dressed in tight clothes, wore too much makeup, and dyed her hair blonde. I'd not have taken her seriously either.




Since all humans are conceived as females ( about 6weeks after, if one has a Y chromosome does then one become a male ) then the fault of unequal
ity begins with "modern religions" starting from Judaism. These religions began the propaganda of inequality in our society and still persists today especially in Islam religion.

The covering of the body by clothes of one's sex further portrays the female as inferior.

The fight by females must begin against these religions of Islam, Christian, Judaism etc to eventually gain what I expect to be equal ...............

Dalmat
03-02-16, 21:44
The covering of the body by clothes of one's sex further portrays the female as inferior.


i dont think thats the case, it may derived into that in Islam today, but original intention was probably to protect women from horny men.

Men sexuality is visual, we get turned on by female bodies, and in more archaic stage of civilization, where chopping of limbs and heads was commonplace you see on the streets, men were probably not expected to suppress their urges as are today, hell even today men are incapable of doing so, especially during puberty

-RIFFIAN-
04-02-16, 00:15
NO,men are superior,no doubt,kuran confirm this.

Sile
04-02-16, 00:50
NO,men are superior,no doubt,kuran confirm this.

Do not worry, you like all of us where conceived as female .............the propaganda by religions has influenced your sense of reasoning .

The Kuran like the Bible and all other religious books was written by men as propaganda for their superiority............these writers where insecure with themselves as men

Sile
04-02-16, 00:54
i dont think thats the case, it may derived into that in Islam today, but original intention was probably to protect women from horny men.

Men sexuality is visual, we get turned on by female bodies, and in more archaic stage of civilization, where chopping of limbs and heads was commonplace you see on the streets, men were probably not expected to suppress their urges as are today, hell even today men are incapable of doing so, especially during puberty

rubbish...........there will always be rape, there is rape in islamic states , hindu states and buddist states as well as christians ............its the lunacy of men ..............

You think women do not have "puberty" urges either! ...................its natures way to populate

LeBrok
04-02-16, 03:38
I got to say some of these comments are very funny, particularly those by people like Garrick. Saying that women should have "equal rights" yet can't compete against males, should only compete against females, etc. Talk about a hypocritical mindset - I guess women only have "rights" as long as those rights are convenient otherwise forget it.

I mean this really made me laugh





Really? I guess you don't know that some tribes have female hunters. The African Aka tribe for example - guys sit looking pretty babysitting while the wives go hunting. And that's just one tribe.


So what are they, aliens?




As for strategic thinking being a male only "skill" I call BS. I've seen plenty of men who are lucky they can think their way out of a wet paper bag without directions.




But then I am a woman, former military, and I have worked in VERY male dominated fields. This includes working security to help pay for my education at a mall infested with drug activity - drug dealers, gang members, and druggies - so bad that the police mostly turned a blind eye and would not step foot on the property unless someone was getting the sh&t kicked out of them or already dead. Or only when my male "strategic thinking" fellow security guards were threatened by guns after going up to two vehicles parked in the back, middle of nowhere, and banging on the passenger window - anyone with two eyes would know that that was a drug deal going down at 5000 paces.


Because I was always thinking, on the ball split second decisions, I never once had an issue at this mall for the 2 years I worked there. In fact, because I learnt swiftly the "lay of the land" I even ended up having the drug dealers - and a 6'4" tattooed like a road map patched Hellsangel member - actually going out of their way to tell me who among their "clients" were going to be an issue for the day or week.


It always makes me laugh, thinking back to that neighborhood and another mall I ended up working at, when two male security guards could not get a 18 year old boy [scrawny lanky runt] to go home and were actually thinking of charging him - as in tackling, etc. - despite how it was recorded three times this kid had been violent and oftentimes carried a weapon on him - he stabbed his step father with a broken wine bottle in broad daylight - and yet stepping out of my vehicle for shift change all I had to do was say his name and tell him to go home. He left shouting at the other "strategically thinking" male guards that I do 150% work for my job and these two were jokers.




I later went on to work in a mental health facility for the criminally insane. So by no means little wimps flexing muscle thinking themselves tough [we had cannibals, serial rapists, killers, psychopaths and sociopaths, etc.] I never had a run in because I was always thinking, again.




But if you equate strategic thinking with rush head first into situations - bull-headed, act first, think later - behavior then yes... males take that cake. Intelligent women are as strategically thinking if not more so because a) we're smaller and oftentimes physically weaker so it'd be hard to go one on one with some nut [you have to think on your feet how to handle a situation as a woman while men mostly rely on their strength].


Ultimately though, no women are not equal. Intelligence wise, yes certainly - my neighborhood here is plagued by "cool" guys who drive up and down a residential street well beyond the speed limit despite multiple signs saying school zone, school crossing, autistic & deaf children. Skill wise, certainly - or we wouldn't have a number of luxuries that men & women use to pamper their arses on a daily basis [a number of inventions are due to women].


Employment wise - hahah. Joke. My cousin graduated early in her engineering class, top of the class, her "job" is little more than a receptionist for some all boys' club company.


And I will say that. I believe in women's rights, equality, etc. However, within reason.


Don't scream "unfair" because you don't get your way... such modern-day attitude of so-called "feminist" probably makes the original feminists [who did voting, etc] roll in their graves. Even I get fed up with women screaming unfair - there was some "doctor" in the UK a couple months, a year maybe, who bitched she wasn't been taken seriously by her patients - she dressed in tight clothes, wore too much makeup, and dyed her hair blonde. I'd not have taken her seriously either.

I like your style..., especially writing. Good life stories, you should try to make a book out of it. ;)

Andrybz
26-12-16, 08:16
My suggestion is both men and women are equal, Now a days the women employees are higher than men, because every woman wants to achieve something in her life. She plays multiple roles and she has a strength to tolerate and face most difficult issues in life. She need to sacrifice her wish for other happiness, so women should have equal right with men.

Yetos
26-12-16, 11:38
Equal in what?
not even even in rights and obligations,

Both have different rights and obligations according their nature,

for example, can a working man have the rights of pregnacy and mother?
NO, then what equal?

the only common-eaqual is that both must have the basical human rights,
the right of personal will, personal choice, work, walk and transport, without facing terror or racism,

LeBrok
26-12-16, 23:05
The main question is not formulated right. Equal denotes rights, law and social order, not human abilities or physical body. To denote physical differences we shouldn't use term equal but rather "the same". Are we the same? Of course not. We are all different.
On top of it, the poll is not precise enough to distinguish if questions refer to current social standings or to philosophical/ideological realm.
Should man and woman be equal? versus Do you think women and men are treated equal in today's Western World?

This poll should be redone.

Seanp
31-12-16, 15:43
Both men and women have advantages which makes them better functioning in certain subjects. It's documented that women are better at focusing on multi tasks at the same time, while they have less of a capacity to navigate or drive a car, men were built on survive and hunting required good skills of navigation.
What's the reason over 95%+ of scientists, inventors are men? It's because our brain capacity were built on skills that were associated with male roles and it took us further in a direction to become interested in those subjects.
When it comes to psychological aspect the most successful Men often wouldn't be nowhere without their wife, it's been quoted many times how men are thankful for a women who gave them a purpose on their lives and make a career in political field for example.

zuul
12-05-17, 06:03
When I first came to Japan I was a ambitious male pushing and explaining women's rights to my students.

I was always upset that my female students never picked on this issue and become ... anything ... moved or slightly flustered.

Today, 10 years later, I know much more and realize that these female students already knew the truth.

Men are allowed to act as such because the women let them.

Sure, women don't lead lives as career excutives in Japan and spend time pouring tea for the men. They even put up with the lazy husbands who lay on the floor while watching TV. They even let their husbands indulge in a tilly tally with a cuty from the office, as long as the husband denies that the lipstick mark on his collar is not the cutey's but blames it on the crowded rush hour train obasan! Women will also pour their husband's beer!

At what price does this come at? sounds like a male heaven ?

lol and behold - the human male species has been swindeled.

My situation might be extreme but I'm married to Japanese lady.

Women in Japan have it made! NO balding due to stress.
With the advent of automated salary deposits to the bank account men have lost their last stonghold of power. Japanese men (including me) live on allowance that barely covers a beer after work. Wives have full financial control of the household. Wives take care of the children's up-bringing. They are the ones who let their husbands behave like children.
Sure, they have low status in the work enviornment but this pays off since work is normally an area to find a well salaried husband who will be able to cover the woman's living expenses. Sure, child rearing can be a 24 hour job in the begingin but once schooling starts the women are left to lounge around the house, go shopping, have affairs, enjoy life to return slightly before the husband and return home to make dinner. Men aren't allowed to complain about the $1,000 Louis Viotton bags but a new set of golf clubs require negotiations with the wife (err computer for me). Women will divorce their husbands after the retirement check comes. Men are supposed to listen and accept their wives complaining in a manly fashion (even if it contiues hours and hours).

Having been married 4 years I have come to understand why more women in Japan don't want to push for the ERA that their American counter parts want. Japanese women don't need rights that would actually limit their powers. (ie, the American President is so strong because his position is the only one that doesn't have oodles and oodles of laws controlling what a President can and can not do).

Ever wonder why you hear all these stories of Japanese men working until all hours of the night in Japan ... why the working day is actually hours and hours of over-time ... I see colleauges working till 9pm where I work. why? Possibly because work = freedom for men in Japan.

I want equal rights!!!

Back to resonableness. Like I mentioned above, when I first came to Japan I pushed and talked alot about equality but ... not knowing the social situation and acting like an American ... lead some of the people around me to look at me strangely. Understanding the situation and then preceding is very important.

Although, I was being sarcastic in parts above ....

I still think that round the world there are many women being taken advantaged of and something should be done to correct those problems.

so ... yes Debs I agree with you.

hmmm ... I wonder in reality who is more equal ??? but then ... it proably depends on how and where this is viewed from ...

:innocent:

BRIFFAULT’S LAW:

The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place.

There are a few corollaries I would add:

1. Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association.

2. Any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for a promise of future association is null and void as soon as the male has provided the benefit (see corollary 1)

3. A promise of future benefit has limited influence on current/future association, with the influence inversely proportionate to the length of time until the benefit will be given and directly proportionate to the degree to which the female trusts the male.