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Maciamo
19-03-09, 17:43
Two weeks ago, I mentioned that members of the House of Oldenburg belonged to haplogroup R1b (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25231), based on Tsar Nicholas II's DNA. Here is a summary of all European kings and queens (and crown princes) whose haplogroup can be deduced from the testing of a relative.

Britain & Scandinavia

Kings & Queens of England or Great Britain

Edward IV (1442-1483) => J1c2c (mtDNA)
Richard III (1452-1485) => J1c2c (mtDNA)
James I (1566-1625) => R1b-L21 (Y-DNA)
Charles I (1600-1649) => T2 (mtDNA) ; R1b-L21 (Y-DNA)
Henrietta Maria of France (1609-1669) => H (mtDNA)
Charles II (1630-1685) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b-L21 (Y-DNA)
James II (1633-1701) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b-L21 (Y-DNA)
William III (1650-1702) => H (mtDNA)
George I (1660-1727) => T2 (mtDNA)
George III (1738-1820) => T2 (mtDNA)
Victoria (1819-1901) => H (mtDNA)
Edward VII (1841-1910) => H (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Alexandra of Denmark (1844-1925) => T2 (mtDNA)
George V (1865-1936) => T2 (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Edward VIII (1894-1972) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
George VI (1895-1952) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh => H (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
Charles, Prince of Wales => R1b (Y-DNA)
Prince William, Duke of Cambridge => R30b (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)

Kings & Queens of Scotland

James III (1451-1488) => U5b* (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Denmark

Sigrid the Haughty (968-1014) => => H (mtDNA)
Harald II (980-1018) => H (mtDNA)
Canute the Great (994-1035) => H (mtDNA)
Sweyn II Estridson (1019-1076) => H (mtDNA)
Canute V of Denmark (1129-1157) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Sophia of Minsk, Queen consort of Denmark (ca. 1140-1198) => Z1a (mtDNA)
King Canute VI of Denmark (1163–1202) => Z1a (mtDNA)
King Valdemar II of Denmark (1170–1241) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Queen Richeza of Denmark (1190-1220) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Olaf II of Denmark & Norway (1370-1387) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Elizabeth (1524-1586) => T2 (mtDNA)
Anne (1574-1619) => T2 (mtDNA)
Juliana Maria of Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel (1729-1796) => H3 (mtDNA)
Margrethe II (1940-) => H (mtDNA)

All the Kings of Denmark since Christian I (reigned from 1448) belonged to haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA)


Christian I (1426-1481)
John (1455-1513)
Christian II (1481-1559)
Frederick I
Christian III => T2 (mtDNA)
Frederick II
Christian IV => T2 (mtDNA)
Frederick III
Christian V
Frederick IV
Christian VI
Frederick V
Christian VII
Frederick VI => T2 (mtDNA)
Christian VIII => T2 (mtDNA)
Frederick VII
Christian IX (1818-1906)
Frederick VIII (1843-1912) => T2 (mtDNA)
Christian X (1870-1947)
Frederick IX (1899-1972)


Kings of Norway

Rikissa Birgersdotter of Sweden, Queen of Norway (c.1237-1288) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Haakon VI of Sweden & Norway (1340-1380) => I1 (Y-DNA)

=> See Kings of Denmark from Christian I to Frederick VI.

Haakon VII (1872-1957) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Olav V (1903-1991) => T2 (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
Harald V (1937-) => R1b (Y-DNA)

Kings & Queens of Sweden

Olof Skötkonung (980-1022) => H (mtDNA)
Richeza of Poland, Queen of Sweden (1116-1156) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Valdemar I of Sweden (1239–1302) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Magnus III of Sweden (1240-1290) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Birger I of Sweden (1280-1321) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Valdemar, Duke of Finland (1280s-1318) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Magnus IV of Sweden (1316-1374) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Eric XII of Sweden (1339-1359) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Haakon VI of Sweden & Norway (1340-1380) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Christian I (1426-1481) => R1b (Y-DNA)
John (1455-1513) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Christian II (1481-1559) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Gustav II Adolf (1594-1632) => T2 (mtDNA)
Charles X Gustav (1622-1660) => T2 (mtDNA)
Christina of Sweden (1626-1689) => H (mtDNA)
Margaret of Connaught (1882-1920) => H (mtDNA)
Louise Mountbatten (1889-1965) => H (mtDNA)
Ingrid (1910-2000) => H (mtDNA)
Carl XVI Gustaf (1946-) => H (mtDNA)

Benelux, Germany & Austro-Hungary

Kings & Queens of Germany

Elisabeth of Bavaria (c. 1227-1273) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Elizabeth of Carinthia (1262-1312) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Frederick the Fair, Duke of Austria and King of Germany (1289-1330) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Joanna of Bavaria, Queen of Germany and Bohemia (c. 1362–1386) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II of Germany (1397-1439) => U5b* (mtDNA)

Holy Roman Emperors & Empress

Barbara of Celje (1390-1451) => T2 (mtDNA)
Maximilian II of Habsburg (1527-1576) => H (mtDNA)
Ferdinand II of Habsburg (1578-1637) => H (mtDNA)
Leopold I of Habsburg (1640-1705) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Amalia of Austria (1701-1756) => N1b (mtDNA)
Maria Josepha of Bavaria (1739-1767) => N1b (mtDNA)
Maria Luisa of Spain (1745-1792) => N1b (mtDNA)
Leopold II of Habsburg (1747-1792) => H3 (mtDNA)
Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor (1768-1835) => N1b (mtDNA)

Margraves, Dukes & Archdukes of Austria

Leopold I, Margrave of Austria (died 994) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Henry I, Margrave of Austria (died 1018) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Adalbert, Margrave of Austria (c. 985-1055) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Ernest, Margrave of Austria (1027-1075) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold II, Margrave of Austria (1050-1095) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold III, Margrave of Austria (1073-1136) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold IV, Margrave of Austria, aka Leopold I, Duke of Bavaria (1108-1141) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Henry II, Duke of Austria, aka Henry XI, also Duke of Bavaria (1107-1177) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold V, Duke of Austria (1157-1194) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Frederick I, Duke of Austria (c. 1175-1198) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Leopold VI, Duke of Austria (1176-1230) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Frederick II, Duke of Austria (1211-1246) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Rudolf I of Habsburg, Duke of Austria and Styria, King of Bohemia, and titular King of Poland (1282-1307) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Frederick I the Fair, Duke of Austria and Styria, and King of Germany (1289-1330) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Leopold I of Habsburg, Duke of Austria and Styria (1290-1326) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II of Habsburg, Duke of Austria (1298-1358) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Otto I of Habsburg, Duke of Austria (1301-1339) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II, King of Germany and Archduke of Austria (1397-1439) => U5b* (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Austria

Maria Theresa (1717-1780) => H3 (mtDNA)
Joseph II (1741-1790) => H3 (mtDNA)
Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor (1768-1835)) => N1b (mtDNA)
Ferdinand I (1793-1875) => H3 (mtDNA)
Charles I (1887-1922) => H (mtDNA)

Dukes/Kings & Queens of Bavaria

Louis II, Duke of Bavaria (1229-1294) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Henry XIII, Duke of Bavaria (1235-1290) => U5b* (mtDNA)
William II, Duke of Bavaria, Count of Holland, Zeeland and Hainaut (1365–1417) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II (1369-1397) => U5b* (mtDNA)
John III, Duke of Bavaria-Straubing, Count of Holland and Hainaut (1374/76-1425) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Louis IX, Duke of Bavaria-Landshut (1417-1479) => U5b* (mtDNA)

Dukes/Kings & Queens of Bohemia

Boleslaus II the Pious (920-999) => H (mtDNA)
Henry VI of Carinthia (c. 1270–1335) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Rudolf I of Habsburg (1282-1307) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Joanna of Bavaria (c. 1362–1386) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Albert II of Germany (1397-1439) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Elisabeth of Bohemia (1409–1442) => T2 (mtDNA)
Vladislas II of Bohemia and Hungary (1456-1516) => T2 (mtDNA)
Anne of Bohemia and Hungary (1503-1546) => H (mtDNA)
Elizabeth Stuart (1596-1662) => T2 (mtDNA)
Ferdinand IV of Bohemia and Hungary (1633-1654) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Amalia of Austria (1701-1756) => N1b (mtDNA)
Maria Luisa of Spain (1745-1792) => N1b (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Prussia

Frederick William I of Prussia (1688-1740) => T2 (mtDNA)
Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick-Bevern (1715-1797) => H3 (mtDNA)
Frederick William II (1744-1797) => H3 (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Germany

Victoria of Prussia (1840-1901) => H (mtDNA)
Wilhelm II (1859-1941) => H (mtDNA)

Kings of Saxony

Frederick Augustus II (1797-1854) => H3 (mtDNA)
John I (1801-1873) => H3 (mtDNA)

Stadtholder of Holland and Zeeland

Maurice of Nassau, Prince of Orange (1567-1625) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings of the Netherlands & Grand Duke of Luxembourg

William I (1772-1843) => H3 (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Belgians

Leopold I (1790-1865) => H (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Marie-Louise of France (1812-1850) => H3 (mtDNA)
Leopold II (1835-1909) => H3 (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Albert I (1875-1934) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Leopold III (1901-1983) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Baldwin I (1930-1993) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Albert II (b. 1934) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)

Italy, France, Spain & Portugal

Kings & Queens of France

All kings of France supposedly belonged to haplogroup R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA).

Ingeborg of Denmark, Queen of France (1175-1236) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Francis I (1494-1547) => U5b* (mtDNA)
Henry IV (1553-1610) => R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA) U5b* (mtDNA)
Marie de' Medici (1575-1642) => H (mtDNA)
Louis XIII (1601-1643) => R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA) H (mtDNA)
Maria Theresa of Spain (1638-1683) => H (mtDNA)
Louis, Dauphin of France (1661–1711) => R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA) H (mtDNA)
Louis XV (1710-1774) => R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA) H (mtDNA)
Louis XVI (1754-1793) => R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA) N1b (mtDNA)
Marie-Antoinette (1755-1793) => H3 (mtDNA)
Louis XVII (1785-1795) => R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA) H3 (mtDNA)
Louis XVIII of France (1755-1824) => R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA) N1b (mtDNA)
Charles X of France (1757-1836) => R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA) N1b (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of France

Napoleon I (1769-1821) => E-M34 (Y-DNA) H (mtDNA)
Marie Louise of Austria (1791-1847) => H3 (mtDNA)
Napoleon II (1811-1832) => H3 (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the French

Maria Amalia of the Two Sicilies (1782-1866) => H3 (mtDNA)

Kings of Italy

Victor Emmanuel II (1820-1878) => H3 (mtDNA)

Grand Duke of Tuscany

Archduchess Joanna of Austria (1547–1578) => H (mtDNA)
Ferdinando II de' Medici (1610-1670) => H (mtDNA)

Dukes of Parma

All dukes of the House of Bourbon-Parma descended from Philip V of Spain, himself a grandson of Louis XIV of France, and therefore presumably belonging to Y-haplogroup R1b-Z381.

King of Sardinia

Charles Emmanuel III of Sardinia (1701-1773) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Christina of the Two Sicilies (1779–1849) => H3 (mtDNA)
Maria Theresa of Tuscany (1801-1855) => H3 (mtDNA)

Kings of the Two Sicilies

All the kings of the Two Sicilies presumably belonged to Y-haplogroup R1b-Z381 as members of the House of Bourbon.

Kings & Queens of Spain

Philip I of Castile, King of Castile and ruler of the Burgundian Netherlands => U5b* (mtDNA)
Margaret of Austria (1584–1611) => H (mtDNA)
Philip IV (1605-1665) => H (mtDNA)
Elisabeth of France (1602–1644) => H (mtDNA)
Mariana of Austria (1634-1696) => H (mtDNA)
Charles II (1661-1700) => H (mtDNA)
Marie Louise of Orléans (1662-1689) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Luisa of Savoy (1688-1714) => H (mtDNA)
Ferdinand VI (1713-1759) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Amalia of Saxony (1724-1760) => N1b (mtDNA)
Charles IV of Spain (1748-1819) => N1b (mtDNA)
Maria Josepha of Saxony (1803-1829) => H3 (mtDNA)
Isabella II (1830-1904) => H (mtDNA)
Alfonso XII (1857-1885) => H (mtDNA)
Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg (1887-1969) => H (mtDNA)
Sofia (1938-) => H (mtDNA)
Felipe, Prince of Asturias (1968-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Portugal

Maria II (1819-1853) => H (mtDNA)
Pedro V (1837-1861) => H (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Luís I (1838-1889) => H (mtDNA) R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Carlos I (1863-1908) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Manuel II (1889-1932) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)

Emperors & Empress of Brazil

Maria Leopoldina of Austria (1797-1826) => H3 (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Mexico

Charlotte of Belgium (1840-1927) => H3 (mtDNA)

Eastern Europe

Dukes/Kings & Queens of Poland

Boleslaw I Chrobry (967-1025) => H (mtDNA)
Elisabeth of Austria (1436-1505) => T2 (mtDNA)
John I Albert (1459-1501) => T2 (mtDNA)
Alexander Jagiellon (1461-1506) => T2 (mtDNA)
Sigismund I of Poland (1467-1548) => T2 (mtDNA)
Catherine of Austria (1533-1572) => H (mtDNA)
Anna of Austria (1573-1598) => H (mtDNA)
Wladyslaw IV Vasa (1595-1648) => H (mtDNA)
Constance of Austria (1588-1631) => H (mtDNA)
John II Casimir Vasa (1609-1672) => H (mtDNA)
Marie Louise Gonzaga (1611-1667) => N1b (mtDNA)
Eleonora Maria Josefa of Austria (1653-1697) => H (mtDNA)
Marie Thérèse de Bourbon (1666-1732) => N1b (mtDNA)

Grand Princes of Kiev

According to the descendant testing listed at the Russian Nobility DNA Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/RussianNobilityDNA/default.aspx?section=yresults) at FTDNA, the branch of the Rurik dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik_dynasty) descended from Vladimir II Monomakh (Monomakhoviches) belong to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1, while the branch descended from his presumed paternal cousin Oleg I of Chernigov (Olgoviches) belonged to R1a1a. The Y-DNA from the Proto-Rurikid branches is N1c1 and matches the distinctive haplotype of the Monomakhoviches. Furthermore, this N1c1 haplotype possess the distinctive value DYS390=23, found in Scandinavia but not in Uralic populations, confirming that this was indeed the original haplotype of the Varangian prince Rurik (c. 830-c. 879) who established the Kievan Rus'.

The N1c1 Monomakhoviches include:


Vladimir II Monomakh (1053-1125)
Mstislav I of Kiev (1076-1132)
Yaropolk II of Kiev (1082-1139)
Viacheslav I of Kiev (1083-1154)
Yuri Dolgorukiy (c. 1090-1157)
Iziaslav II of Kiev (c. 1097-1154)
Rostislav I of Kiev (c. 1110–1167)
Yaroslav II of Kiev (c. 1132-1180)
Roman the Great (c. 1152-1205) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Rurik Rostislavich (?–1215)
Ingvar of Kiev (c. 1152-1220)
Mstislav III of Kiev (died 1223)
Rostislav II of Kiev (1173-1214)
Vladimir IV Rurikovich (1187-1239)
Daniel of Galicia (c. 1201-1264)
Alexander Nevsky (1220-1263)
Lev I of Galicia (c. 1228-c. 1301)
Yaroslav of Tver (1230–1271)
Yuri I of Galicia (1252-1308), King of Galicia-Volhynia (or King of Rus')
Andrew of Galicia (?-1323), King of Galicia-Volhynia
Lev II of Galicia (?-1323), King of Galicia-Volhynia


Grand Dukes of Lithuania

According to the descendant testing listed at the Russian Nobility DNA Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/RussianNobilityDNA/default.aspx?section=yresults) at FTDNA, the House of Gediminas (1285–1440), also known as Gediminids, belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1.

Tsars & Empress of Russia

Peter II (1715-1730) => H3 (mtDNA)

Romanov dynasty since Paul I => R1b (Y-DNA) :


Paul I (1754-1801)
Alexander I (1777-1825)
Constantine I (1779-1831)
Nicholas I (1796-1855)
Alexander II (1818-1881)
Alexander III (1845-1894)
Nicholas II (1868-1918) => T2 (mtDNA)


Maria Feodorovna (1847-1928) => H (mtDNA)
Alexandra Feodorovna (1872-1918) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Greece

George I (1845-1913) => T2 (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
Constantine I (1868-1923) => R1b (Y-DNA)
Sophia of Prussia (1870-1932) => H (mtDNA)
Princess Alice of Battenberg (1885-1969) => H (mtDNA)
Alexander (1893-1920) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
George II (1890-1947) => H (mtDNA) ; R1b (Y-DNA)
Paul (1901-1964) => H (mtDNA)
Anne-Marie (1946-) => H (mtDNA)
Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece (1967-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings of Romania

Ferdinand I (1865-1927) => H (mtDNA)
Michael (1921-) => H (mtDNA)

Tsars of Bulgaria

Ferdinand I (1861-1948) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Boris III (1894-1943) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)
Simeon II (b. 1937) => R1b-U106 (Z305+) (Y-DNA)

Maciamo
21-03-09, 11:40
Only 1 Y-DNA and 4 mtDNA lineages were used to compile the above list. The people tested were (with the known mitochondrial mutations) :

- King Sweyn II of Denmark (mtDNA haplogroup H)

DNA tested from the king's remains at Roskilde Cathedral. His earliest recorded matrilineal ancestor was Dubrawka of Bohemia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubrawka) (died 977).

- Tzar Nicholas II of Russia (mtDNA haplogroup T2 : 16126C, 16169Y*, 16294T, 16296T, 73G, 263G, 315.1C)
* heteroplasmy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteroplasmy) for 16169Y (common within haplogroup T).

All the members of haplogroup T2 above descend from Adelheid von Alpeck (died 1280), daughter of Witegow von Alpeck.

Their most recent common matrilineal ancestor is Elisabeth of Bohemia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_II_of_Bohemia) (1409–1442), daughter of Sigismund of Luxembourg, Holy Roman Emperor, and Barbara of Celje.

- Empress Alexandra Fyodorovna of Hesse and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh (haplogroup H : 263G, 315.1C, 16111T, 16357C)

Both of them descend in matrilineal line from Queen Victoria. This lineage's oldest known matrilineal ancestor would be Mathilde, mother of Cecile de Provence-Arles (died in 1150).

The most recent common ancestor of the people on this page is Anne of Bohemia and Hungary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_of_Bohemia_and_Hungary) (1503-1546).

The subclade of H cannot be identified without results from the coding region. The 16111 mutation suggest that it might be H2.

- Emperess Maria Theresa of Austria (haplogroup H : 152C, 194T, 263G, 315.1C, 16519C)

Various matrilineal descendants of Maria Theresa were tested and confirmed to belong to the same haplogroup.

This lineage's oldest known matrilineal ancestor is Anna Katherina von Salm-Kyrburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salm-Kyrburg) (1614-1647).

The most recent common ancestor to all the above-mentioned is Princess Christine Louise of Oettingen-Oettingen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Christine_Louise_of_Oettingen-Oettingen), who was the maternal grandmother of Maria Theresa of Austria, Queen Elisabeth Christine of Prussia, Queen Juliane Marie of Denmark and Tsar Peter II of Russia.

This lineage is possibly H3 (mentioned as such above to differentiate it from the H lineage descending from Anne of Bohemia).


It's interesting to see that 3 out of the 4 lineages descend from a Queen/Duchess of Bohemia.

Tourbillion
22-03-09, 09:28
Wow, great work! :)

Maciamo
10-07-09, 17:46
According to the Stuart/Stewart Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Stewart/default.aspx?section=yresults) at FTDNA, King Charles II of Great Britain would have been R1b-L21. This is concordant with the history of the House of Stuart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Stuart), who traces its roots to Brittany (a region with a high frequency of R-L21) before settling in Scotland during the Norman period.

ylebzh
24-07-09, 22:25
Great work indeed !
Very interesting, but if you isolate the Ydna, all these families are related to each other, mainly through Victoria, as she placed her many daughters quite wisely throughout Europe.
There is also different dynasties, not always related through paternal line, and I see very few Ydna's, wondering why .....

Nicolas Peucelle
16-12-09, 00:27
"whose haplogroup can be deduced from the testing of a relative". I think that you should be a bit careful with this way of proceeding because Y chromosomes can easy be given by other men than "supposed to be fathers" especially if they just figure on old papers. I think that such an Y-DNA test would be very interesting in the case of the son of Catherine the Great of Russia. Because if the Y-chromosome of her son is not the same as the Y chromosome of her husband Tsar "Peter III", but of her good friend Sergei Saltykov, this would show that "legitimacy" is a far more "idealistic" value, also in dynasties than a reality based on real direct biological lineage.

Maciamo
16-12-09, 13:54
"whose haplogroup can be deduced from the testing of a relative". I think that you should be a bit careful with this way of proceeding because Y chromosomes can easy be given by other men than "supposed to be fathers" especially if they just figure on old papers. I think that such an Y-DNA test would be very interesting in the case of the son of Catherine the Great of Russia. Because if the Y-chromosome of her son is not the same as the Y chromosome of her husband Tsar "Peter III", but of her good friend Sergei Saltykov, this would show that "legitimacy" is a far more "idealistic" value, also in dynasties than a reality based on real direct biological lineage.

I agree that paternity can easily be "compromised". However, Nicholas II Romanov's relatedness to Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, was proven by comparing both Y-DNA. It means that the lineages that separate them ar at least uncompromised.

Nicolas Peucelle
16-12-09, 20:55
Yes, no doubts for the family lineage after Paul I. But the main question may remain a bit unsolved.. Is the Tsar Paul I a "Romanov" or is he not. I guess that later on, over the generations, thanks to all kinds of cousin marriages the biological Romanov blood line was re-entering anyhow into the official Tsar family "through the back door". It is a bit "sad" to imagine that a man like Peter The Great may have no descendants at all today? Except for illegitimate unknown children. (I admit I didn't check precisely into the details of the other official daughters he had.. but his personal Y-Chromosome lineage for sure was ending because of all his sons deaths before they had sons.).

^ lynx ^
08-02-10, 19:33
Interesting. Great work.

GIFT_OF_ISIS
10-02-10, 21:01
Nicholas II Romanov's relatedness to Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, was proven by comparing both Y-DNA...



Dear Maciamo,

Could you please point me to where it is possible to read about their comparison?

Aristander
25-10-10, 23:58
Yes, no doubts for the family lineage after Paul I. But the main question may remain a bit unsolved.. Is the Tsar Paul I a "Romanov" or is he not. I guess that later on, over the generations, thanks to all kinds of cousin marriages the biological Romanov blood line was re-entering anyhow into the official Tsar family "through the back door". It is a bit "sad" to imagine that a man like Peter The Great may have no descendants at all today? Except for illegitimate unknown children. (I admit I didn't check precisely into the details of the other official daughters he had.. but his personal Y-Chromosome lineage for sure was ending because of all his sons deaths before they had sons.).
I can't remember exactly where I saw something about this, but I believe that recently I saw an article that verified Pavel Petrovich as the son of Peter III and not the product of an affair with Sergei Saltykov. I believe the evidence was DNA based but I cannot find the article now.

Melusine
26-10-10, 01:02
Maciamo,

Thank you so much for posting the haplogroups of the European Kings and Queens.
Very informative. I also study history as a hobby.

While my direct paternal line is G, my mother's father (French ancestry)was hg I+++ (eye) he came from La Rochelle. My mother's maternal grandfather was R1b++
(Iberian ancestry). Males cousins from both lines tested for our family.

Melusine

willy
02-11-10, 02:14
Louis XVII (1785-1795) => G2a3 (Y-DNA) H9 (mtDNA)

He is supposed to be G2a3b1 and very probably L140 +

DavidCoutts
04-11-10, 00:54
What, no Robert de Bruce?:disappointed::angry:
I'm reminded of the joke from one of Sir Terry Prattchet's Discworld novels, "The royal family had died out because they had inbred so much the last king kept trying to breed with himself...":grin:

Maciamo
12-11-10, 13:00
The Y-DNA and full mtDNA sequence of Napoleon Bonaparte are being tested (http://www.investigativegenetics.com/content/1/1/7). The results for the HVR1 section of mtDNA have already been disclosed. Only one rare mutation (16184C) was found to differ from the CRS. It's not enough to determine the haplogroup with certainty, but it is probably a subclade of hg H.

AndersB
09-03-11, 21:37
Maciamo,

I believe there is an error in your first post in this thread.

You write:


Kings & Queens of Denmark

Sigrid the Haughty (968-1014) => => H5a (mtDNA)
Harald II (980-1018) => H5a (mtDNA)
Canute the Great (994-1035) => H5a (mtDNA)
Sweyn II Estridson (1019-1076) => H5a (mtDNA)

There must have been a mixup here. The haplogroup of Sweyn Estridson is not H5a but just H. The grave previously thought to belong to his mother Estrid cannot be Estrid, since the woman in that grave was of haplogroup H5a. Since Sweyn must have the same mtDNA haplogroup as his mother that woman in the grave cannot be his mother! The identity of Sweyn's grave is considered to be well established.

See the scientific article here
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16687224

The haplogroup of the persons cited should thus be changed from H5a to H.

/Anders
admin
Swedish Haplogroup Database
dna.scangen.se/?lang=en

Antigone
10-03-11, 08:07
Very interesting, but if you isolate the Ydna, all these families are related to each other, mainly through Victoria, as she placed her many daughters quite wisely throughout Europe.

They are all related mainly through the Danish royal family, even the Greek royal family was originally Danish. But Victoria did help a bit, Tsar Nicholas II, his wife Alexandra, Wilhelm II of Germany and George V of Great Britain were all first cousins.

Quite a family resemblence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tsar_Nicholas_II_%26_King_George_V.JPG

Maciamo
10-03-11, 19:22
Maciamo,

I believe there is an error in your first post in this thread.

You write:


Kings & Queens of Denmark

Sigrid the Haughty (968-1014) => => H5a (mtDNA)
Harald II (980-1018) => H5a (mtDNA)
Canute the Great (994-1035) => H5a (mtDNA)
Sweyn II Estridson (1019-1076) => H5a (mtDNA)

There must have been a mixup here. The haplogroup of Sweyn Estridson is not H5a but just H. The grave previously thought to belong to his mother Estrid cannot be Estrid, since the woman in that grave was of haplogroup H5a. Since Sweyn must have the same mtDNA haplogroup as his mother that woman in the grave cannot be his mother! The identity of Sweyn's grave is considered to be well established.

See the scientific article here
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16687224

The haplogroup of the persons cited should thus be changed from H5a to H.

/Anders
admin
Swedish Haplogroup Database
dna.scangen.se/?lang=en


Sorry, you are right. I copied the mistake from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_historical_and_famous_figur es#King_Sweyn_II_of_Denmark) !

Wilhelm
10-03-11, 19:24
Wikipedia is not reliable at all when it comes to population-genetics.

AndersB
10-03-11, 19:36
Sorry, you are right. I copied the mistake from Wikipedia !

Okey, I see! I corrected the Wikipedia article.

Best regards,
Anders

stewart
16-04-11, 20:42
Maciamo wrote: "haplogroup can be deduced from the testing of a relative"

Where can I see the test results and name of the male relative of a king of Scotland or England whose Y-DNA was tested in order to deduce the haplogroup of the House of Stewart, Maciamo?

What is the primary source of your information about the Stewart kings?

The web page at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Stuart/default.aspx states that according to ftDNA's Deep Clade tests of several dukes, the House of Stewart belongs to Y-haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1b4 (R-L 21) (previously named R1b1b2a1b5). None of these Dukes' test results are shown.

al-kochol
30-04-11, 04:17
It is unlikely that a biological father of prince Albert was Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

Ernest was noted for his antipathy to women, and it was rumored at the time that his treasurer, a Jew, had relieved the Duke of the distressing duty of engendering an heir. There was no suggestion of alternate parentage, for it was only after the birth of her two sons, at an interval of fourteen months, that Duchess Louise felt that she had discharged her duty, and no longer had to content herself with an ersatz husband, whom many gallant gentlemen gladly replaced.

http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Kosher_Kings.html

If the above is true, Prince William is likely to have R1a haplotype (in case Duke Ernest's treasurer was an Ashkenazi Jew) or, alternatively, one of "semitic" haplotypes of Y-DNA (in case the treasurer was a Sephardi Jew).

Archaeogenetics
10-05-11, 05:36
It is unlikely that a biological father of prince Albert was Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Kosher_Kings.html

If the above is true, Prince William is likely to have R1a haplotype (in case Duke Ernest's treasurer was an Ashkenazi Jew) or, alternatively, one of "semitic" haplotypes of Y-DNA (in case the treasurer was a Sephardi Jew).

It would be nice if it were true IMHO, but no such luck.

http://www.internetstones.com/image-files/duke-and-duchess-of-windsor-with-adolph-hitler.jpg

Maybe the point of that story was originally to embarrass the Duke of Windsor.

Was Albert the only son of Ernst of Saxe-Coberg-Gotha?

Anyway, Prince Philip Mountbatten who is William's grandfather tested, and he matches the House of Oldenberg and Czar Nicholas, as above.

Archaeogenetics
10-05-11, 05:40
What is interesting though is that Prince William and Harry's and their mother Diana's mtDNA ancestor "Eliza" was a native of Mumbai, but later her descendants pretended she was "Armenian" to make their ancestry more acceptable:
http://thepeerage.com/p41284.htm#i412832

http://extras.denverpost.com/books/chap150.htm


... her great-great grandmother Eliza Kewark was a dark-skinned native of Bombay who had lived, without benefit of matrimony, with her great-great-grandfather Theodore Forbes while he worked for the East India Company. Unsavory as the taint of illegitimacy was, even at that distance in time, it was nothing compared with the stigma of what was then known as "colored blood." Had it been generally known that Ruth and her children were part-Indian, they might never have made good marriages. Eliza's true race was therefore expunged from the family tree and she reemerged as an Armenian. This fiction was maintained even when Diana married the Prince of Wales.

It would be interesting to test their mtDNA. If it turns out that they are part South Asian then it might result in some positive publicity nowadays for the British Monarchy. :laughing:

Archaeogenetics
10-05-11, 06:42
All kings of France supposedly belonged to haplogroup G2a3 (Y-DNA).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capetian_dynasty

All we know is that a few STRs from a bloody handkerchief and one two SNPs indicate that the blood on the handkerchief was from a man who was G2a3-something, possibly G2a3b1a-L140, although the haplotype is very unusual and doesn't match anyone we have now.

Dried blood from 220 years ago on some random object is not the same as actually testing the living descendants of a family.

The sources for the ancestry of Robert the Strong, Count of Paris, d. 866, the ancestor of the Capetians:
http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rober100.htm

I keep telling Willy and the rest that there are plenty of patrilineal Capetian descendants out there, including some "Miguelist" Bragança from Portugal. Many of the Kings of Europe over the centuries were Capetians. Almost all the Americas was ruled by three Capetian monarchs from 1714-1760.

There are hundreds of Capetian descendants, and many are legitimate yet not in the line of succession.

This is EU-pedia, but no one wants to test them?

I suggest we start with a Miguelist Bragança, and a Bourbon, who share a hypothetical common ancestor in Robert II King of France b. 975 and test them for Y-111 and a full SNP test. That will not only give us some answers about the unknown origins of Robert the Strong Count of Paris, but if they in fact match it would give us a very rough idea of what two divergent haplotypes look like at 111 STRs after 1000 years.

For all of you who insist that "G2a" was the "Origin of the Frankish Nobility":
http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rober100.htm


Much attention has been attracted by the account of Richer of Reims, writing in the 990's, who is the only early author to give a supposed name for the father of Robert. Richer states that Robert was of the knightly class and that Robert's father (literally, the paternal grandfather of king Eudes) was a German named Witichinus ["Hic patrem habuit ex equestri ordine Rotbertum; avum vero paternum, Witichinum advenam Germanem." Richer, i, 5, MGH SS 3: 570]. The name Widukind (Witichinus) is a name of Saxon origin, borne not only by the above historian, but also the name of the principal leader of the Saxons who fought against Charlemagne. Thus, in apparent support of Richer, we have the account of Aimoin of Fleury, writing just after 1000, who states that Robert was of Saxon origin ["... Rotbertus Andegavensis comes, Saxonici generis vir, ..." Aimoin, Miracula S. Benedicti, i, 1, MGH SS 9: 374]. Against a Saxon origin for Robert we have not only the early evidence mentioned above, but the specific evidence of Widukind, the historian of the Saxons, who was writing a generation before Richer and Aimoin, and who, as noted above, indicates nothing of a Saxon origin for Robert's dynasty. As was pointed out by Lot, it is also possible here that Aimoin's "Saxon" did not refer to ethnic origin, but just indicated that the geographical origin of the family was from Germany, ruled by a Saxon dynasty at the time that Aimoin was writing [Lot (1902), 432, n. 1; Werner (1997), 12].

If this family is in fact G2a3*, then they are likely to be what Ray calls "G2a3b1a6 - DYS643=9".
The two closest matches would be from Heisterbach [Abbey] near Königswinter in North-Rhine-Westphalia Germany and Hilsenheim in the Bas-Rhin Department in Alsace France. These places are very close to where we'd expect Robert's ancestors to have come from in the most accepted theory:



What early evidence that exists for the place of origin of Robert le Fort has him coming from East Francia, or more specifically the region around Mainz, Worms, and Speier, and places him in a family of noble but not royal blood.
Meingaud, count of Wormsgau and Mayenfeld, who died in 892, appears in Regino of Prüm's annals as a nepos of king Eudes, son of Robert le Fort.
A Robert, son of count Robert, donated two manses in Mettenheim in Wormsgau with appurtenances to the monastery of Lorsch in 836×7. This Robert's father was evidently count in Wormsgau.
In 876, a count Meingaud of Wormsgau (probably not the same man who died in 892, but at the very least a relative) and his nepos Eudes (Voto) donated one manse in Mettenheim with appurtenances to Lorsch. This common connection to Mettenhem suggests that Meingaud was closely related to the Robert of 836×7.
Since the appearance of a Meingaud, relative of king Eudes son of Robert le Fort on one hand, compared to Robert, apparent relative of a Meingaud and his nepos Eudes on the other hand, is unlikely to be a coincidence, and since Robert son of Robert appears in precisely the area where we would expect to find Robert le Fort, the evidence points strongly to the conclusion that they were the same man.


Maybe one Capetian descendant reading this page will volunteer to be tested?

Until someone tests some Capetians, it seems to me that this page in Eupedia has pretty much nothing to say about the DNA of the Kings and Queens of Europe. I could have guessed "R1b", "H" and "T2" in my sleep.

Archaeogenetics
10-05-11, 20:52
I guess not. Neither do the Grand Dukes of Muscovy, who don't descend from Rurik:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mozhayski/teksty/ydna.html

The interesting thing is that apparently both Rurik and Gedeminas were Finns, not Slavs or Balts. Haplogroup N1c1-L548-L549-L550. It may or may not be that the Grand Princes of Moscow descend from the Piast Dynasty of Early Poland, but they are in a "Slavic" clade of R1a1a. (which?)

We've learned a lot from this study of the Rurikids - and not just about early Medieval European (perhaps not for this forum) history either. We finally have a set of Y haplotypes with a common ancestor who lived in the 9th century. These are not in macro-haplogroup R1*, so we now can get an idea of STR mutation rates in other parts of the Y tree.

All the "Europeans" here might want to consider doing that too.

Dagne
10-05-11, 23:22
For Lithuanians and also for Polish Gediminas and his dynasty is the most real royal! We don‘t have any others I am afraid...

Well yes, he was a pagan ruler, so he couldn‘t be given a right to a Christian crown by the Pope.

But Gediminas was a very wise ruler. The ideas of his letters written in XIV century could well read as a XXI century PR action:
„... letters Lübeck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCbeck), Sund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sund), Bremen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremen), Magdeburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdeburg), Cologne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne) and other cities, explaining that the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was very tolerant to the Christians, but remained pagan and did not accept Christianity only because of brutal Teutonic Knights. Gediminas invited knights, squires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squire), merchants, doctors, smiths, wheelwrights, cobblers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoemaking), skinners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_(profession)), millers, and others to come to the Grand Duchy and practice their trade and faith without any restrictions. The peasants were promised tax exemption for ten years. The merchants were also exempt from any tariffs or taxes.“
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_Gediminas

Maciamo
24-05-11, 20:46
Here is a new ancient DNA study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0940960211000793) testing the Y-DNA and mtDNA of Swedish statesman Birger Jarl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birger_Jarl) (1200-1266), founder of Stockholm and regent of Sweden, and his son Eric Birgersson, Duke of Småland. Birger Jarl was also the father of Valdemar, King of Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdemar_I_of_Sweden) and Magnus III of Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_III_of_Sweden). Both Birger Jarl and Eric Birgersson were found to belong to haplogroup I1. The mtDNA of Birger was H, while his children with Ingeborg Eriksdotter of Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingeborg_Eriksdotter_of_Sweden) were Z1a.

By extension of the lineages, we can presume the Y-DNA and mtDNA of the following people :

House of Bjälbo

Valdemar I of Sweden (1239–1302) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Magnus III of Sweden (1240-1290) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Birger I of Sweden (1280-1321) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Valdemar, Duke of Finland (1280s-1318) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Magnus IV of Sweden (1316-1374) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Eric XII of Sweden (1339-1359) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Haakon VI of Sweden & Norway (1340-1380) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Olaf II of Denmark & Norway (1370-1387) => I1 (Y-DNA)

Going up the matrilineal line from Ingeborg Eriksdotter

Queen Richeza of Denmark => Z1a (mtDNA)
Sophia of Minsk, Queen consort of Denmark => Z1a (mtDNA)
Richeza of Poland, Queen of Sweden => Z1a (mtDNA)
Salomea of Berg => Z1a (mtDNA)
Adelaide of Mochental => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Ingeborg Eriksdotter

Benedict, Duke of Finland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Rikissa Birgersdotter of Sweden, Queen of Norway => Z1a (mtDNA)
Otto the Mild, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg => Z1a (mtDNA)
Magnus the Pious, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Sophia of Minsk

King Canute VI of Denmark (1163–1202) => Z1a (mtDNA)
King Valdemar II of Denmark (1170–1241) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Ingeborg of Denmark, Queen of France => Z1a (mtDNA)
Otto I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Richeza of Poland

Canute V of Denmark => Z1a (mtDNA)
Vladimir, Prince of Minsk => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Salomea of Berg

Bolesław IV the Curly (c. 1122-1173), Duke of Masovia, High Duke of Poland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Mieszko III the Old (c. 1125-1202), Duke of Greater Poland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Henry (1127/32-1166), Duke of Sandomierz => Z1a (mtDNA)
Casimir II the Just (1138-1194), Duke of Sandomierz from 1173, High Duke of Poland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Roman the Great, Grand Prince of Kiev => Z1a (mtDNA)
Otto II, Margrave of Brandenburg => Z1a (mtDNA)

balazo
02-06-11, 11:15
Very interesting topic, thank you for all the information provided. As i read it through, i discovered something interesting. The last russian czar's wife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alix_von_Hessen and i have almost similar mtDNA: 16111T, 16357C, 263G, 315.1C
Could someone help me please explain how we are related? Thank you.

Maciamo
02-06-11, 13:32
Very interesting topic, thank you for all the information provided. As i read it through, i discovered something interesting. The last russian czar's wife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alix_von_Hessen and i have almost similar mtDNA: 16111T, 16357C, 263G, 315.1C
Could someone help me please explain how we are related? Thank you.

The mutations you gave are only in the HVR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervariable_region) (hypervariable region) part of mtDNA, so it isn't complete enough to determine the exact deep subclade. Even two individuals who share exactly the same deep subclade may not be related to each other within genealogical times (not within 500 years), especially if it is a fairly common subclade. In this case, it is haplogroup H, the most common haplogroup in Europe, so it doesn't mean anything to share the same haplogroup.

GIFT_OF_ISIS
25-09-11, 09:27
doubts about Windsor's R1b

It is unlikely that a biological father of prince Albert was Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

If the above is true, Prince William is likely to have R1a haplotype (in case Duke Ernest's treasurer was an Ashkenazi Jew) or, alternatively, one of "semitic" haplotypes of Y-DNA (in case the treasurer was a Sephardi Jew).



Dear al-kochol,

Please check the facts.

The Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Windsors or their relatives have never been tested. It is Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, and his progeny, who are predicted to be R1b.

The Ashkenazi Jews belong to Middle Eastern haplogroups. Only the Ashkenazi Levites are 50% R1a. Levites make only 4% of Ashkenazi Jews.

GIFT_OF_ISIS
25-09-11, 09:32
Prince Philip Mountbatten who is William's grandfather tested, and he matches the House of Oldenberg and Czar Nicholas



Dear Ted,

Can you please point me to the source about Prince Philip's Y-DNA testing? I have desperately googled for it, but failed to find anything. I asked Maciamo for it, but didn't get any answer.

GIFT_OF_ISIS
25-09-11, 13:13
the Grand Dukes of Muscovy, who don't descend from Rurik:

freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mozhayski/teksty/ydna.html

they are in a "Slavic" clade of R1a1a. (which?)



Ted,

Those people that turned out R1a1a1g just suspect their descent from Dmitri Donskoy of Moscow based on family LEGEND, with NO documents, and strongly REJECTED by all major Nobility Assemblies.

These results say nothing about the Grand Princes of Moscow.

GIFT_OF_ISIS
25-09-11, 13:41
It is a bit "sad" to imagine that a man like Peter The Great may have no descendants at all today? Except for illegitimate unknown children. (I admit I didn't check precisely into the details of the other official daughters he had.. but his personal Y-Chromosome lineage for sure was ending because of all his sons deaths before they had sons.).

One of his sons (who was sentenced to death by him) actually had a son Peter II, and a daughter, who died teenagers.

LeBrok
25-09-11, 18:10
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Gift of Isis. Welcome to Eupedia. :)

Knovas
25-09-11, 19:12
Very curious the Z1a MtDNA. ¿How common it really is between Swedish people and other Scandinavians?

foryouandme
31-10-11, 17:39
I hope you don't mind, Maciamo, but I thought I'll add some more royalty of interest to that excellent list you've made.



Kings & Queens of England or Great Britain

Anne of Denmark (1574-1619) => T2 (mtDNA)
Mary of Teck (1867-1953) => H (mtDNA)
Edward VIII (1894-1972) => H (mtDNA)
George VI (1895-1952) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Denmark

Sophie of Pomerania (1498–1568) => T2 (mtDNA)
Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow (1557-1631) => T2 (mtDNA)
Caroline Matilda of Great Britain (1751-1775) => T2 (mtDNA)
Frederick VI (1768–1839) => T2 (mtDNA)
Christian VIII (1786–1848) => T2 (mtDNA)
Louise of Hesse-Kassel (1817-1898) => T2 (mtDNA)
Louise of Sweden (1851–1926) => H (mtDNA)
Christian X (1870-1947) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Norway

Maud of Wales (1869-1938) => T2 (mtDNA)
Haakon VII (1872-1957) => H (mtDNA)
Märtha of Sweden (1901-1954) => H (mtDNA)
Harald V (1937-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Sweden

Richeza of Denmark (1190–1220) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Christina of Holstein-Gottorp (1573-1625) => T2 (mtDNA)
Maria Eleonora of Brandenburg (1599-1655) => H (mtDNA)
Hedwig Eleonora of Holstein-Gottorp (1636-1715) => H (mtDNA)
Louise of the Netherlands (1828-1871) => H (mtDNA)
Sophia of Nassau (1836-1913) => H (mtDNA)
Gustav V (1858-1950) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Prussia

Sophia Charlotte of Hanover (1668-1705) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Netherlands

Emma of Waldeck and Pyrmont (1858-1934) => H (mtDNA)
Wilhelmina (1880-1962) => H (mtDNA)
Juliana (1909-2004) => H (mtDNA)
Beatrix (1938-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Belgians

Astrid of Sweden (1905-1935) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of France

Anne of Austria (1601-1666) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Sardinia

Anne-Marie of Orléans (1669-1728) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Portugal

Maria II (1819-1853) => H9 (mtDNA)
Pedro V (1837-1861) => H9 (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Brazil

Pedro II (1825-1891) => H9 (mtDNA)

Tsars & Empress of Russia

Catherine the Great (1729-1796) => H (mtDNA)
Paul I (1754-1801) => H (mtDNA)
Alexandra Feodorovna (Charlotte of Prussia) (1798-1860) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Feodorovna (Dagmar of Denmark) (1847-1928) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings of Romania

Ferdinand I (1865-1927) => H9 (mtDNA)
Anne of Bourbon-Parma (1923-) => H9 (mtDNA)

BradChellew
11-11-11, 08:10
Hi,
I have 2 questions for this very interesting thread:
1. I see someone said that Mountbatten had tested, can you provide details on his Haplogroup or his Y-DNA?
2. What would be King George V of Gt Britain predicted Haplogroup or Y-DNA result - as he is from the Wettin line, which goes back to before 1000AD - this info would be useful.
Regards,
Brad

zanipolo
11-11-11, 12:19
I find it interesting the the American Thomas jefferson is G2a .......We did he come from to go to USA

Knovas
11-11-11, 15:39
¿MtDna G2a? ¿Really?

I tell this because he was paternal T...

zanipolo
11-11-11, 21:35
¿MtDna G2a? ¿Really?

I tell this because he was paternal T...

Yes I was in Error , I was think of someone else, anyway he is K

the G was King Lois 16th of france

BradChellew
13-11-11, 07:22
Maciamo ..... no one replied, so I'll try to see if I can get a direct response from you please:
1. Has Prince Louis of Battenberg (i.e. Mountbatten) been tested, can you provide details on his Haplogroup or his Y-DNA?
2. What would be King George V of Gt Britain predicted Haplogroup or Y-DNA result - as he is from the Wettin line, which goes back to before 1000AD - this info would be useful to help track genealogy for a major family.
Regards,
Brad

Maciamo
13-11-11, 09:35
Maciamo ..... no one replied, so I'll try to see if I can get a direct response from you please:
1. Has Prince Louis of Battenberg (i.e. Mountbatten) been tested, can you provide details on his Haplogroup or his Y-DNA?
2. What would be King George V of Gt Britain predicted Haplogroup or Y-DNA result - as he is from the Wettin line, which goes back to before 1000AD - this info would be useful to help track genealogy for a major family.
Regards,
Brad

If it's not in the list, it means they have not been tested (to the best of my knowledge). You can also use Google and search by yourself.

foryouandme
20-11-11, 01:50
Hi,
I have 2 questions for this very interesting thread:
1. I see someone said that Mountbatten had tested, can you provide details on his Haplogroup or his Y-DNA?
2. What would be King George V of Gt Britain predicted Haplogroup or Y-DNA result - as he is from the Wettin line, which goes back to before 1000AD - this info would be useful.
Regards,
Brad

Hi Brad

Mountbatten was Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh's maternal uncle. His mother, Victoria of Hesse was the eldest sister of Alexandra Feodorovna, the last empress of Russia. Their mtDNA haplogroup was H (Helena). I don't know about his and George V's Y-DNA, though.

foryouandme
20-11-11, 01:57
I thought I read somewhere that King Louis XVI of France's mtDNA haplogroup was N1b?

Blanton
14-12-11, 17:47
Maciamo,

If one wished to compare their personal mtDNA, with the same Haplogroup H, is there a web site that you might know of to do this? Register and follow their page instructions, etc.

Example: mtDNA for King Michael I of Romania, his Mother - Princess Ileana of Romania, her Mother - Queen Marie of Romania (great grandmother - Queen Victoria), her Mother - Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna of Edinburgh?

Thank you in advance.

HBB

Blanton
14-12-11, 18:19
Albert had four brothers. George VI, Prince Henry - Duke of Gloucester, Prince George - Duke of Kent, and Prince John.

Maciamo
14-12-11, 18:55
Maciamo,

If one wished to compare their personal mtDNA, with the same Haplogroup H, is there a web site that you might know of to do this? Register and follow their page instructions, etc.

Example: mtDNA for King Michael I of Romania, his Mother - Princess Ileana of Romania, her Mother - Queen Marie of Romania (great grandmother - Queen Victoria), her Mother - Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna of Edinburgh?

Thank you in advance.

HBB

Comparing mtDNA sequences with these would be useless to prove any kinship for three reasons :

1) two individials can share identically the same full mtDNA sequence and still not be related on the maternal line for 2000 years.

2) none of the royalty listed above had their full mtDNA sequence tested - only the HVRI and HVRII.

3) just belonging to the same subclade doesn't mean anything since the common ancestors might have lived many thousands, if not tens of thousands of years ago.

Blanton
14-12-11, 19:34
This is what I thought as well. Secondly, an inquiry as to possible options:

1. A lock of Queen Victoria's hair?

2. Exhume the body of Princess Ileana of Romania?

Maciamo
14-12-11, 22:41
This is what I thought as well. Secondly, an inquiry as to possible options:

1. A lock of Queen Victoria's hair?

2. Exhume the body of Princess Ileana of Romania?

What exactly is your question ?

Blanton
14-12-11, 23:04
What exactly is your question ?

What would be reliability of testing the following to identify either or both of the following to obtain more recent ancestry?


1. A lock of Queen Victoria's hair?

2. Exhume the body of Princess Ileana of Romania?

HBB

foryouandme
20-03-12, 17:04
Maciamo,

If one wished to compare their personal mtDNA, with the same Haplogroup H, is there a web site that you might know of to do this? Register and follow their page instructions, etc.

Example: mtDNA for King Michael I of Romania, his Mother - Princess Ileana of Romania, her Mother - Queen Marie of Romania (great grandmother - Queen Victoria), her Mother - Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna of Edinburgh?

Thank you in advance.

HBB

You have confused two maternal lines. Queen Victoria was Queen Marie of Romania's paternal grandmother. However, Queen Marie and her paternal grandfather Prince Albert shared the same matrilineal line.

King Michael I of Romania, his Mother - Princess Helen of Greece and Denmark, her Mother - Princess Sophie of Prussia, her Mother - Victoria, Princess Royal, her Mother - Queen Victoria of Great Britain

Their mtDNA haplogroup was H. Their farthest known maternal line ancestress was Juana Núñez de Lara http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juana_N%C3%BA%C3%B1ez_de_Lara

Princess Ileana of Romania, her Mother - Queen Marie of Romania, her Mother - Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna of Russia, her Mother - Princess Marie of Hesse

Their farthest known maternal line ancestress was Euphrosyne Doukaina Kamatera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphrosyne_Doukaina_Kamatera

Hope this all helps

Alexroma
29-06-12, 17:10
Hello!

in one book I read:

"The basis, induced to show interest to a problem of an origin of
prince Philippe, information which it is necessary to call unexpected
was. It is a question of results of research DNA of the sister of
prince Philippe - princesses of Sofia Hanover. About results which
with all evidence testify that DNA of prince Philippe and the princess
of Sofia don't coincide. Don't coincide so that give the grounds for
the statement that they occurred from different parents.
Professor William Meyplz, the head of genetic laboratory in Berkeley
(California), professor Mary Clare King, geneticist Charles Ginter and
doctor Willie Korte were the scientists concerning these researches,
the known American judicial anthropologist from Florida".

do you know mitochondrial DNA of princesses of Sofia Hanover?

excuse if a question silly and for my English

Alex

Russia, Moscow

L.D.Brousse
29-06-12, 17:32
What, no Robert de Bruce?:disappointed::angry:
I'm reminded of the joke from one of Sir Terry Prattchet's Discworld novels, "The royal family had died out because they had inbred so much the last king kept trying to breed with himself...":grin:
Robert The Bruce DNA has been studied I was in the same study My surname is Bruce anglitized from Brousse. He is also R1b I looked at the study today and no one from that line has ordered the deep clade so plain R1b is all I can tell you

L.D.Brousse
04-07-12, 20:53
Robert the Bruce's Y line Note No Deep Clade has been done so they are listed as R1b1



13
25
14
10
11
15
12
12
13
13
13
29
17
9
10
11
11
25
15
19
28
15
15
17
17
11
11
19
23
16
15
18
16
36
38
12
12

Rambler
17-07-12, 09:13
Hi Maciamo,

I thought that this might be an appropriate update to your excellent list.

This from the facebook page of Brad Michael Little.


I now have the Haplogroup test result for "Wettin Man" i.e. the relative of King George V who did a Y-DNA test to help me work out the relationship wth my Grandfather (William James Shepherd).

It is R1b1a2a1a1a U106+ U198- P89.2- P107- L6- L48- L47- L325- L257- L226- L217- L21- L1- ..... known as R1b-U106 for short!

So R1b-U106 is the Royal Haplogroup for a large number of European Royal Houses who are relatives of King George VI, King George V, King Edward VII, Prince Albert (Queen Victoria's husband) and then the whole Wettin line going back to around 950 AD.

He has a web link The-Kings-Son.com, but updates are on his FB page.

I am enjoying the discussion.

Conte di Haio
17-11-12, 18:00
My greetings Sirs !

Don't You know the real official reliable sources for " Wettin-Man " ? Me myslef am from the Wettin Dynasty (a Saxon - Zeitz illegitimate lineage from the early 18.the Century) and I have the I2a Y-chromozone Hg. It is said that the Hg I is the perhaps one of the most native to the pure European Region, and has formed in the last Glacial Maximum in the Balkans. However according to Kenneth Nordvedt the I2a is a rather young Hg, mine has according to him formed itself aprox. arround 2500 years ago. Maybe a Byzantine-Illyrian influence ?

The Y - chromozone results from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha or any other lineage would be great.

Thank's

Conte di Haio

sparkey
19-11-12, 18:55
Don't You know the real official reliable sources for " Wettin-Man " ?

The source is Brad Michael Little. See his discussion here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27310-King-George-V-son-my-grandfather).


Me myslef am from the Wettin Dynasty (a Saxon - Zeitz illegitimate lineage from the early 18.the Century) and I have the I2a Y-chromozone Hg.

Fascinating. You mean you're a patrilineal descendant of the Dukes of Saxe-Zeitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxe-Zeitz)? Could you give us the names of everybody along your patriline? (You can skip living individuals for privacy's sake.) You see, I'm actually keeping a list of famous I2 carriers (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27655-Searching-for-famous-I2-carriers), and if you can add more people to that, that would be awesome.

Actually, I wouldn't be particularly surprised if both you and "Wettin Man" were from lineages associated with the House of Wettin. I expect there to be multiple different Y lineages associated with the House of Wettin, considering that over 1000 years is a long time to go back and have no NPEs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event)!


It is said that the Hg I is the perhaps one of the most native to the pure European Region, and has formed in the last Glacial Maximum in the Balkans. However according to Kenneth Nordvedt the I2a is a rather young Hg, mine has according to him formed itself aprox. arround 2500 years ago. Maybe a Byzantine-Illyrian influence ?

Haplogroup I is indeed ancient to Europe. We have ancient samples from the Neolithic having haplogroup I, and we presume based on STR dating that it goes back to the Paleolithic in Europe.

I2a-P37 is very old as well (about 20,000 years old), but I suppose by "2500 years ago" you're referring to your specific type of I2a-P37. Do you know your terminal SNP, or your STR values? Are you I2a-Din?

Conte di Haio
03-12-12, 03:32
Yes indeed. In direct paternal line I am descendant of Christian August of Saxe - Zeitz, Prince of Holy Roman Empire, Duke of Saxony, cardinal of the Holy See and an archbishop of Gran (Esztergom in Hungary). My subclade is indeed I2a1b1 - Din. I was tested in 2006. I have been a little bit confused by the first time, but later I understood that it is the very native Hg for the Europe, and that this Hg has been found across the Old Dolmen Tombs in France, and others. That it has survived in a very specific areas, where invaders from the East and South didn't came.


The precise familytree I would like not to publish. I just will give the main paternal line. More specifications : I live in Slovakia (part of Ex- Czechoslovakia) in the house where my ancestors had lived for 300 years , when the Wettiner Story had begun. It is one of the satelitte vilages of the Santa Croce di Gran - Keresztur - Svaty Kriz nad Hronom, or with nowadays name --- Ziar nad Hronom. It had been the main summer residence of the Esztergom (Gran) archibishops in the past. However I live in multiple places now, but I still hold the ancient house of our family there. I am last descendant of the paternal line there. Our name has been Macák, Maczak, Matsak, Macag in the times. Mainly Maczak and from the 1st Czechoslovak Republic a simple Macák.
The most simplified name descendancy should be :


Christian August of Saxe - Zeitz (*1666 - +1725)
Georgius Maczak ?
Josephus Maczak ?
Matthias Maczak *1798 - + 1846
Stephanus Maczak *1819 - +1880
Josephus Macák *1877 - + 1931
Martinus Macák *1914 - +1986 my grandfather

sparkey
03-12-12, 18:34
Our name has been Macák, Maczak, Matsak, Macag in the times. Mainly Maczak and from the 1st Czechoslovak Republic a simple Macák.
The most simplified name descendancy should be :


Christian August of Saxe - Zeitz (*1666 - +1725)
Georgius Maczak ?
Josephus Maczak ?
Matthias Maczak *1798 - + 1846
Stephanus Maczak *1819 - +1880
Josephus Macák *1877 - + 1931
Martinus Macák *1914 - +1986 my grandfather

The most curious link there, of course, is the Christian->Georgius Maczak link. Have Slovakian scholars verified this link? I can't find anything in English about it offhand. It also looks like you have rather few generations between Christian and Matthias. Christian, Georgius, and Josephus would have had sons at an average of 44 years old to get that lineage to work (not implausible, but needs additional verification, like you seem to have with the Stephanus->Josephus link, with Stephanus being about 58).

Where any of the members of the Maczak/Macák family, post-split from the Saxe-Zeitz branch, notable in their own right?

LeBrok
03-12-12, 20:17
Hi, Maczak the way you spell is clearly a Polish name. Probably in originated around Lvov area in Ukraine during Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. There is a chance that Macza evolved from more popular last name Marczak. In both connections there is no connection to nobility. Not sure how Maczak could end up connected to Duke of Saxony?

Conte di Haio
03-12-12, 20:54
In Hungary the cz means " c ". But Macak or Maczak is a very common name in Slovakia. There are many holders of this name, which is a derivation of the name Mattiaus. Maczko, Macko, Macak, Maczak, Macag, Matsak.


The whole reaserch has been made by the Official Governmental Reaserch House, of State Archives of Slovakia. The Stephanus Maczak child - it has been his 9th and last child. However the first two members --- there are no additive informations about their birth or death. The information is in matriculas but only --- the son of Georgius Maczak, the son of Josephus Maczak.


But we are 100% sure for the Sachsen - Zeitz descent. There is no doubt. I had written the above reply in that I was curious, because as I know and have resources the descendants of Wettin should have I2a P37.2 Hg. Even several of the early Saxon Nobility have this haplogroup.


In my cause I have real evidence of my Sachsen - Zeitz descent, even with the name of Christian August von Sachsen Zeitz, there are no doubt.


I am just very doubtfull about the R1b Wettiner Man. I think that it is a fraud. But unless there Hubert Herzog zu Sachsen - Coburg - Gotha or others would give their DNA profiles public, I can be only doubtfull what is the true Saxon DNA.

So thank's for Your contributions, that's all from me.

SSZ

Conte di Haio
03-12-12, 21:00
And to Maczak name, there has been a King with the name Madzak that Ibn Masudi had written with the content of Volhynian Slavs (9th Century). He had to be a " King of Kings of Eastern Slavs ". But there are doubts if this is spelled : Majak, Madzak, od Mujak. (the effect is the same --- and meaning from Croatian - a " cat " , a " smarty man " in Slavic languagues). The type of writting of my name is just Hungarian. There are many mutations. Mackassy, etc. etc. . just an add.

bradmichaellittle
24-12-12, 22:12
Hi Conte di Haio,
I assure you the data and information in The King's Son is not a fraud.
The haplogroup info posted on my webpage is a result of triangulated known living Wettin men providing their y-dna. All the info is in a 200 page book.
I found your alleged ancestor (Christian Saxe-Zeitz) and agree the Haplogroup info for Wettin Man your Saxe-Zeitz Man should be the same ..... they aren't.
Next steps?
Regards,
Brad (the-kings-son.com)

Maciamo
03-01-13, 11:21
I have added the royal members of the House of Wettin as belonging to R1b-U106.

A new paper on the mtDNA of Henry IV of France (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28285-Henry-IV-of-France-s-mtDNA-lineage-and-cousins) (haplogroup U5b*) also allowed me to identify 10 European kings and many more dukes as belonging to the same mtDNA lineage.

nordicwarrior
16-01-13, 05:58
I just read on a U.K. based family website that Jarl Birger is no longer confirmed hg I1--have any of the genetic experts heard of this development? I prefer to not list the surname on this thread, but can email/message it to those who would like further confirmation of the claim.

nordicwarrior
19-01-13, 01:50
I want to bump this one more time in the hopes that one of the more senior members has any knowledge of this Birger claim. I haven't noticed anywhere else that this line had been reclassified as a different haplogroup.

sparkey
19-01-13, 02:49
I want to bump this one more time in the hopes that one of the more senior members has any knowledge of this Birger claim. I haven't noticed anywhere else that this line had been reclassified as a different haplogroup.

Is somebody discounting the Malmström et al. 2011 study (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/05/finding-founder-of-stockholm.html)?

nordicwarrior
19-01-13, 04:36
I think so Sparkey, I pm'ed you the site info.

Grubbe
04-02-13, 20:45
Seems Richard III of York belonged to mtDNA haplogroup J. (Sorry I can't post the link!!)

Grubbe
30-03-13, 20:29
Seems Richard III of York belonged to mtDNA haplogroup J. (Sorry I can't post the link!!)

Seems he belonged to J1c2c.

kleon
03-05-13, 20:18
Seems he belonged to J1c2c.

Are there any tests of living Plantagenets of the Beaufort line?

Grubbe
04-05-13, 15:46
Are there any tests of living Plantagenets of the Beaufort line?

It has been tested two living descendants from a sister of king Richard, that's all I know from news media.

al-kochol
05-05-13, 04:34
there has been a King with the name Madzak that Ibn Masudi had written with the content of Volhynian Slavs (9th Century).

Your Y-DNA has actually the Eastern European origin. I2a is a stamp of the so called Ostrogoths. The so called, because in fact they were not Goths at all.

Grubbe
05-05-13, 13:01
Your Y-DNA has actually the Eastern European origin. I2a is a stamp of the so called Ostrogoths. The so called, because in fact they were not Goths at all.

What were they, then? Sources, please?

james stock
05-05-13, 18:02
What were they, then? Sources, please?
It's not possible to have a source for something that is completely fabricated.

The only way we could possibly know the Y-haplogroups of ancient populations is to find ancient bones, find proof that they represent a certain population, then sequence their genome. This will eventually happen, and until it does you can assume the majority of people claiming knowledge of ancient population genetics are, above all, propagandists.

Grubbe
05-05-13, 18:36
It's not possible to have a source for something that is completely fabricated.

The only way we could possibly know the Y-haplogroups of ancient populations is to find ancient bones, find proof that they represent a certain population, then sequence their genome. This will eventually happen, and until it does you can assume the majority of people claiming knowledge of ancient population genetics are, above all, propagandists.

OK, so the Ostrogoths are still Ostrogoths, then, haplogroups aside. I wondered if there was something I had missed.

Twilight
07-06-13, 07:57
I was wondering, if it is true that R1B-S26 is a sub-sept of Z305 (George V's haplogroup sept) like it says in your R1B Family tree how did z305 go from German to Celtiberian and Anglo-Saxon?

nordicwarrior
07-06-13, 08:37
...The only way we could possibly know the Y-haplogroups of ancient populations is to find ancient bones, find proof that they represent a certain population, then sequence their genome. This will eventually happen, and until it does you can assume the majority of people claiming knowledge of ancient population genetics are, above all, propagandists.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I agree 100%.

Vallicanus
07-06-13, 09:23
It's not possible to have a source for something that is completely fabricated.

The only way we could possibly know the Y-haplogroups of ancient populations is to find ancient bones, find proof that they represent a certain population, then sequence their genome. This will eventually happen, and until it does you can assume the majority of people claiming knowledge of ancient population genetics are, above all, propagandists.

I agree too.

albanopolis
14-06-13, 23:55
According to the Stuart/Stewart Project (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Stewart/default.aspx?section=yresults) at FTDNA, King Charles II of Great Britain would have been R1b-L21. This is concordant with the history of the House of Stuart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Stuart), who traces its roots to Brittany (a region with a high frequency of R-L21) before settling in Scotland during the Norman period.
Here is the internet article:

Maciamo
13-07-13, 08:45
There is a good (as explained here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28880-Possible-Habsburg-Y-DNA-haplogroup?p=411794&viewfull=1#post411794)) that the Habsburgs belong to haplogroup R1b-U152 (L2+ branch).

foryouandme
04-08-13, 15:16
Very curious the Z1a MtDNA. ¿How common it really is between Swedish people and other Scandinavians?

Z is a mongoloid haplogroup. I wonder if Adelaide of Mochental was of Saami descent.

I also wonder if Anne of Cleves, fourth wife of Henry VIII of England, was of mongoloid descent too, because she and her sister, Sybylle, had mongoloid looking features. Their earliest recorded maternal ancestor came either from Bulgaria or Russia.

foryouandme
05-08-13, 02:11
All kings of France supposedly belonged to haplogroup G2a3 (Y-DNA).

Also the Bourbon kings of Spain had and have G2a3 (Y-DNA). Philip V of Spain was the grandson of Louis XIV of France.

Philip V of Spain (1683 – 1746)
Louis I of Spain (1707 – 1724)
Ferdinand VI of Spain (1713 – 1759)
Charles III of Spain (1716 – 1788)
Charles IV of Spain (1748 – 1819)
Ferdinand VII of Spain (1784 – 1833)
Francis, Duke of Cádiz (1822 – 1902)
Alfonso XII of Spain (1857 – 1885)
Alfonso XIII of Spain (1886 – 1941)
Juan Carlos I of Spain (1938)
Ferdinand I of the Two Sicilies (1751 – 1825)
Francis I of the Two Sicilies (1777 – 1830)
Ferdinand II of the Two Sicilies (1810 – 1859)
Ferdinand II of the Two Sicilies (1836 – 1894)
Louis, King of Etruria (1773 – 1803)

foryouandme
05-08-13, 02:26
Maciamo, please feel free to add at least some of the royalty that I was hoping you'd one day add to your wonderful list and it makes it easier for everyone to observe.



Kings & Queens of England or Great Britain

Anne of Denmark (1574-1619) => T2 (mtDNA)
Mary of Teck (1867-1953) => H (mtDNA)
Edward VIII (1894-1972) => H (mtDNA)
George VI (1895-1952) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Denmark

Sophie of Pomerania (1498–1568) => T2 (mtDNA)
Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow (1557-1631) => T2 (mtDNA)
Caroline Matilda of Great Britain (1751-1775) => T2 (mtDNA)
Frederick VI (1768–1839) => T2 (mtDNA)
Christian VIII (1786–1848) => T2 (mtDNA)
Louise of Hesse-Kassel (1817-1898) => T2 (mtDNA)
Louise of Sweden (1851–1926) => H (mtDNA)
Christian X (1870-1947) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Norway

Maud of Wales (1869-1938) => T2 (mtDNA)
Haakon VII (1872-1957) => H (mtDNA)
Märtha of Sweden (1901-1954) => H (mtDNA)
Harald V (1937-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Sweden

Richeza of Denmark (1190–1220) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Christina of Holstein-Gottorp (1573-1625) => T2 (mtDNA)
Maria Eleonora of Brandenburg (1599-1655) => H (mtDNA)
Hedwig Eleonora of Holstein-Gottorp (1636-1715) => H (mtDNA)
Louise of the Netherlands (1828-1871) => H (mtDNA)
Sophia of Nassau (1836-1913) => H (mtDNA)
Gustav V (1858-1950) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Prussia

Sophia Charlotte of Hanover (1668-1705) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Netherlands

Emma of Waldeck and Pyrmont (1858-1934) => H (mtDNA)
Wilhelmina (1880-1962) => H (mtDNA)
Juliana (1909-2004) => H (mtDNA)
Beatrix (1938-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Belgians

Astrid of Sweden (1905-1935) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of France

Anne of Austria (1601-1666) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Sardinia

Anne-Marie of Orléans (1669-1728) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Portugal

Maria II (1819-1853) => H9 (mtDNA)
Pedro V (1837-1861) => H9 (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Brazil

Pedro II (1825-1891) => H9 (mtDNA)

Tsars & Empress of Russia

Catherine the Great (1729-1796) => H (mtDNA)
Paul I (1754-1801) => H (mtDNA)
Alexandra Feodorovna (Charlotte of Prussia) (1798-1860) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Feodorovna (Dagmar of Denmark) (1847-1928) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings of Romania

Ferdinand I (1865-1927) => H9 (mtDNA)
Anne of Bourbon-Parma (1923-) => H9 (mtDNA)

ForensicDoc
23-10-13, 20:05
Hello!

in one book I read:

"The basis, induced to show interest to a problem of an origin of
prince Philippe, information which it is necessary to call unexpected
was. It is a question of results of research DNA of the sister of
prince Philippe - princesses of Sofia Hanover. About results which
with all evidence testify that DNA of prince Philippe and the princess
of Sofia don't coincide. Don't coincide so that give the grounds for
the statement that they occurred from different parents.
Professor William Meyplz, the head of genetic laboratory in Berkeley
(California), professor Mary Clare King, geneticist Charles Ginter and
doctor Willie Korte were the scientists concerning these researches,
the known American judicial anthropologist from Florida".

do you know mitochondrial DNA of princesses of Sofia Hanover?

excuse if a question silly and for my English

Alex

Russia, Moscow

Hello Alex,

It is rumored in population DNA circles that the results from a tooth extracted from Princess Sofia were not an exact match with those of Prince Philip, and thus were not included in the original Gill et. al. report.

I understand that King and Ginther never published their findings, probably as a consequence of the unwritten rule in science against publishing negative results.

In a similar vein, two additional Hanoverian princesses were tested by Rohl, Warren and Hunt, and included in their book, "Purple Secret: Genes, 'Madness,' and the Royal Houses of Europe," (1998, Bantam Press). They reported the following HVR1 results for Princess Charlotte and her daughter, Princess Feodora:

16111 16126 16169
Princess Charlotte *T T C
Princess Feodora C T C
HRH Duke of Edinburgh *T T C

*mutation from C

As this was conducted during the early days of DNA testing, the authors went to great pains to suggest that the difference between the daughter Feodora and her supposed mother, Charlotte, may have been the result of contamination, with presenting scientific evidence in support. Since the book was published, more is known about mutations and repair mechanisms, and it could have very well been the case that the 16111C for Feodora may have simply have been a back mutation. I would have been more concerned had 16111 had been a "G" or an "A."

I know it doesn't directly answer your question though, and I apologize for that.

ForensicDoc
23-10-13, 20:08
Note: the sentence "As this was conducted during the early days of DNA testing, the authors went to great pains to suggest that the difference between the daughter Feodora and her supposed mother, Charlotte, may have been the result of contamination, with presenting scientific evidence in support." should read "As this was conducted during the early days of DNA testing, the authors went to great pains to suggest that the difference between the daughter Feodora and her supposed mother, Charlotte, may have been the result of contamination, WITHOUT presenting scientific evidence in support." I apologize for the confusion.

flagal007
07-01-14, 06:35
I agree with your findings. I guess the adage that if the horse is in your barn, then its yours. Besides, I have seen some of the pics of Catherines' husband. I would have to have all of the lights out and have had a lot of Russian Vodka to deal with him. :laughing:

Kardu
10-02-14, 21:03
Since Georgia currently at least politically is part of Europe here is the result of the Bagrationi royal house - Q1a3* (relict branch. no matches found whatsoever so far).

In the XIII century Queen Tamar Bagrationi of Georgia married an Alan (Ossetian) prince David Soslan, so genetically current Bagrationis are descendants of Soslan. Although according to several sources David Soslan himself was of Bagrationi descent being great-great grandson of a Georgian king through Alanian consort.
Hopefully sooner or later we will have results of paleoDNA analysis of pre-Soslan Bagrationis and will be able to compare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagrationi

flagal007
12-02-14, 21:39
I see the royal descendants don't go back to Charlomayne, his descendants are scattered in most of the royal houses of europe. j

Just curious.

flagal007
12-02-14, 21:44
You are correct about the Stewart's history in Brittany. They were from the house of Dol. In my studies of my ancestors I have come across their information.

mjaMah
03-04-14, 15:07
Good morning.

New in this forum and in genetic genealogy, I hope to stay a long time with you.

Heartily.

mjaMah

LeBrok
03-04-14, 17:26
Welcome to Eupedia mjaMah (the last character of your name shows as ? for me)

Fire Haired14
20-04-14, 04:34
How do you find this stuff? It's very interesting.

Grubbe
04-05-14, 13:45
#84: The Bourbon kings are now supposedly all belonging to haplogroup R1b-Z381 (Y-DNA). See the update in #1.

arvistro
14-08-14, 23:26
I wonder if any Slav king/Tsar was found with R1A y-dna? Russian known ones were found to be N1C1 (different Rurikids) and R1B (Romanovs after Paul).
Polish dynasties after Jagiellons also N1C1 (maybe Piasts were R1A?) that got replaced with R1B later.

Hopes on Trouble Times Tsars of Russia, Piasts of Poland, some of elected monarchs of Poland, early Romanovs (unless their family traces back to Rurikids or Gediminids) and maybe South Slavs, since they had number of local Princes/Kings.

LeBrok
15-08-14, 01:54
I wonder if any Slav king/Tsar was found with R1A y-dna? Russian known ones were found to be N1C1 (different Rurikids) and R1B (Romanovs after Paul).
Polish dynasties after Jagiellons also N1C1 (maybe Piasts were R1A?) that got replaced with R1B later.

Hopes on Trouble Times Tsars of Russia, Piasts of Poland, some of elected monarchs of Poland, early Romanovs (unless their family traces back to Rurikids or Gediminids) and maybe South Slavs, since they had number of local Princes/Kings.
Apart from original dynasties, royal families mixed mainly with other royals. At the end of a day we shouldn't have too many haplogroups to deal with. How did they find out about Jagiellons? Test of bones or just known present relatives?

arvistro
15-08-14, 08:11
Apart from original dynasties, royal families mixed mainly with other royals. At the end of a day we shouldn't have too many haplogroups to deal with. How did they find out about Jagiellons? Test of bones or just known present relatives?
Jagiellons are Gediminids. Same Rurikid project found that Gediminas was N just like Rurik but they were not relatives.

webducky
09-01-15, 22:01
Mine are YDNA I1 and MtDNA (maternal) H1h

wagner
11-04-15, 17:47
How about Hohenzollern Y-DNA haplogroup? I could not find anything anywhere about that male line.

wagner
13-04-15, 10:44
Also is Y-DNA of the Hohenstaufen family known?

Tomenable
13-04-15, 16:01
Maciamo can you list your sources for all this info?

BTW - some new info:


Richard III (1452-1485) => J1c2c (mtDNA)

Y-DNA of Richard III was G2:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/royaldna.shtml

And here is the comment:

"P287; Differs from that of three male line descendants of Edward III via John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster and Henry Somerset, 5th Duke of Beaufort (1744–1803), which are U152 xL2,Z36,Z56,M126,M160,Z192. Infidelity must therefore have taken place somewhere on either the York or Lancester lines."

Tomenable
13-04-15, 16:10
Several distinct Y-DNA halogroups were found among various members of the Rurikid dynasty:

N1c1 (most frequent)
R1a L260
R1a P278
R1a Z92
R1a M458
R1a Z280
I2a1 (among princes of Turov and Pinsk)

This info is based on the Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project.

Carol Jean
15-04-15, 20:55
He is supposed to be G2a3b1 and very probably L140 +

This Quote above does not seem to be correct according to what I have read. Can you post on here what his DNA should be from what tests have shown lately since they now believe that the gourd did not have the blood from King Louis XVI and the head did not belong to King Henri the IV? Also is there any way that the results from the testing of the three male descendants of the French Kings could be published or even sent to me in an e-mail? Is there any way to compare a DNA test that is on Ancestry.Com to any of these Kings of France? Sorry for the multiple questions. If you would rather not post on this forum the answers, would you please answer my request by e-mail?
Thank you so very much for answering my request.

FurToTheThrone
13-11-15, 16:42
Maciamo, How did you come to this conclusion? How did you come up with all these genetic codes, if there are even genetic codes?

Tomenable
13-11-15, 19:36
^ Probably Maciamo's results come from modern descendants of (or people who claim to be descended from) these dynasties.

Rethel
13-11-15, 20:07
^ Probably Maciamo's results come from modern descendants of (or people who claim to be descended from) these dynasties.

Exept Chengis Khan, because no one from his descendents was probably checked.
These ones who are in FT projects all are from Jochi clan - so they are Merkites.
I wouldn't be surprized, if Temujin wouldn't be even C.

Street
21-10-16, 20:22
It concerns me that the African Kings and Queens that ruled have been left off of your list, or am I mistaken?

Maciamo
21-10-16, 22:21
It concerns me that the African Kings and Queens that ruled have been left off of your list, or am I mistaken?

Check the thread's title again. It says 'European kings and queens'.

dnaforensicslab
02-11-16, 09:09
Chengis Khan is not as no one from his descendents was probably checked.
These ones who are in FT projects all are from Jochi clan - so they are Merkites.

Huitzilopochtli
07-12-16, 01:05
Exept Chengis Khan, because no one from his descendents was probably checked.
These ones who are in FT projects all are from Jochi clan - so they are Merkites.
I wouldn't be surprized, if Temujin wouldn't be even C.

Could no one find modern descendents? In light of the recent R1b results this might be prescient.

Rethel
10-12-16, 02:30
Could no one find modern descendents? In light of the recent R1b results this might be prescient.

Polish-Russian Gengiskhanids were checked, but all they
are descendants of Jochi, who was not a real son of Temujin.
Real gengiskhanids live in China, Mongolia and Central Asia,
but it is probably very hard to proof. Maybe in China they
can have some pedegrees, but I am wonder if Mings would
not simly kill them all... it is probable. But if some traditional
descendancy from temujin would be confirmed among some
Mongol or central Asian families, it could have some probablity.

Huitzilopochtli
10-12-16, 02:56
Does anyone know if Charlemagne has any documented direct male line descendants? Any guesses what his haplogroup might be? I would imagine R1b-U106 is the most likely possibility.

Mich Glitch
10-12-16, 18:06
Maciamo,

Could you publish the exhaustive ancient DNA list, please?
I.e. archaeological results only. Without any descendants testing and further reconstructions.

Thank you in advance.

LeBrok
10-12-16, 22:36
Maciamo,

Could you publish the exhaustive ancient DNA list, please?
I.e. archaeological results only. Without any descendants testing and further reconstructions.

Thank you in advance.
Check the Genetic section on Eupedia:
http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/
Samples of different sections:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/ancient_european_dna.shtml
http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/yamna_culture.shtml

Mich Glitch
11-12-16, 03:03
Thank you for the links that I've seen many times before. But I am asking for the exhaustive ancient DNA list, if it's possible.

Some basics.


When only one descendant is tested it's not a very valuable reason to associate his haplotype with his ancestors. Don't forget about NPEs.

Mich Glitch
11-12-16, 03:13
I've tested some pairs.
TMRCA:
- 11.5 generations;
- 8;
- 5;
etc.

For one group of four persons with MRCA born in 1736 I have one NPE.

For MRCA born in the 11th century I've tested 9 persons and have 5 different subclades. Which one should I associate with the real historical person?

Mich Glitch
11-12-16, 03:19
When I speak about ancient DNA list, I mean the list of royal and noble dynasties.

Rethel
11-12-16, 19:05
Does anyone know if Charlemagne has any documented direct male line descendants?

No, he has not.

kingjohn
18-01-17, 20:34
dear maciamo,
thanks for all information :)
i saw this in page 1 :
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/25236-Haplogroups-of-European-kings-and-queens
(http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/25236-Haplogroups-of-European-kings-and-queens)
Juliana Maria of Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel (1729-1796) => H3 (mtDNA)

is she a confirmed mtdna h3 ?
with kind regards
adam

Daemon2017
19-02-17, 12:51
Is there any news about Piasts DNA? :rolleyes2:

LeBrok
19-02-17, 19:12
Is there any news about Piasts DNA? :rolleyes2:
Nothing yet.

Moi-même
22-02-17, 23:48
Trying to extend the lines of known descendant of Charlemagne in my own genealogy, I realized one of them had a mt-descendant who tested and she has royalties on her mt-line (which is not mine, unfortunately).

Her name is Catherine Couvent (http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec-genealogy/000/000001.php), she married Philippe Amiot in Épieds around 1625.

At FTDNA's French Heritage DNA Project, her mt-descendant was given plain H* for haplogroup and their HVR1+2 mutations are:
HVR1: A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T
HVR2: G73A, C146T, C152T, C195T, A247G, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C

It seems she tested at Genographic as her kit number start with N. I don't know how solid their papertrail is and it's sad there is no match to confirm Catherine Couvent's DNA signature yet. But feel free to ask Jacques Beaugrand, the project admin, if your are interested to know more. He's quite helpful usually.

So, back Catherine Couvent royal ancestors.

Catherine Couvent
Antoinette de Longueval + Guillaume Couvent
Louise de Joyeuse + Charles de Longueval
Nicole des Ancherins + Jean de Joyeuse
Marguerite de Monthois + Jean des Ancherins
Nicole Issenard + Jean de Monthois
Béatrix de Grandpré + Geoffroy Issenard

This is as far as the as the francogene genealogy goes, but other sites gives Béatrix genealogy as:

Claude de Roucy + Gobert de Grandpré
Blanche de Coucy + Hugues II de Pierrepont
Jeanne d'Harcourt + Raoul de Coucy
Blanche de Ponthieu + Jean d'Harcourt
Catherine d'Artois + Jean II de Ponthieu
Blanche de Bretagne + Philippe d'Artois
Beatrice of England + Jean II de Bretagne
Eleonore of Provence + Henry III King of England
Béatrice de Savoie + Raimont-Béranger IV de Provence
Marguerite de Genève + Thomas Ier de Savoie
Beatrice or Marguerite de Faucigny + Guillaume Ier de Genève

So, at the very least, Eleonore of Provence's son, Edward I of England, would be H*.

A quick look around the wiki pages, it's seems the following monarchs would be H* too:

Margaret I, Queen of Scotland
Philippe III, King of France
Jeanne II, Queen of Navarre
Jean II, King of France
Eric XII, King of Sweden
Håkon VI, King of Sweden

Although still quite speculative, it could be of interest to this thread.

Rethel
01-04-17, 12:36
..........................................

Maciamo
08-04-17, 19:12
Prof. Tomasz Kozłowski tested the Y-DNA of Prince Janusz III of Masovia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janusz_III_of_Masovia), a direct descendent of the Piast Dynasty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piast_dynasty), Poland's first historical ruling dynasty, starting with Prince Mieszko I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mieszko_I_of_Poland) (c. 930–992) and ending in 1370 with the death of king Casimir III the Great (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_III_the_Great). He announced that the prince belonged to haplogroup R1b, and therefore probably also other members of that royal lineage, as long as no non-paternity event took place.

Tomenable
08-04-17, 20:08
There are plans to test more members of the dynasty so hopefully we will learn if there was a non-paternity event in the lineage leading to Janusz III of Mazovia, and hopefully they will determine the exact subclade of R1b.

This has not been possible so far:


Kozłowski's claim that his team could not discern any subhaplogroup more specific than R1b is disturbing. He blames the condition of the remains, but one must wonder whether a team with better equipment and methods could have gotten more complete results.

Tomenable
09-04-17, 00:51
In any case I hope that they were L617 or at least some other DF27. :)

Tomenable
14-04-17, 11:49
They will extract DNA from bones of Piast kings Ladislaus I and Casimir III:

http://naukawpolsce.pap.pl/aktualnosci/news,413826,powstaje-genetyczny-portret-dawnych-mieszkancow-terenow-polski.html

"Everything indicates, that these are the best preserved graves of the Piast dynasty".


Spore nadzieje naukowcy pokładają w badaniach grobów Władysława Łokietka i Kazimierza Wielkiego na Wawelu. "Wszystko wskazuje na to, że są to najlepiej zachowane groby członków dynastii Piastów. To ważne, by z takich właśnie grobów pobrać DNA, który po zbadaniu może posłużyć jako wzorzec do identyfikacji innych członków rodu" - opowiada naukowiec.

They are both buried in St. Leonard's Crypt beneath the Wawel Cathedral:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wawel_Cathedral#St._Leonard.27s_Crypt_beneath_the_ Cathedral

As for Y-DNA of Janusz III of the Mazovian branch of Piasts, Davidski wrote:


This result might well be correct, but my point was that it was done with PCR on a very degraded sample, and another test is being done now using SNP capture and enrichment to double check the result, and I guess to try and work out the subclade.

Anyway, expect a lot of confusing results and surprises from Bronze Age, Iron Age and Medieval Poland when the relevant papers finally come out. I've seen a few of them, and it's hard to work out what was going on there.

Sennevini
01-06-17, 20:31
I was looking at some maternal lines of European royals. Now I think the following is an interesting line:

Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia, Willem II of the Netherlands, Alexander III of Russia, Frederik IX of Denmark, Franz Joseph I of Austria-Hungaria, Christian IX of Denmark, Constantine I of Greece, Alfonso XIII of Spain, George IV of the United Kingdom and William IV of the United Kingdom all descend in female line from three daughters of Marie von Barby-Mühlingen and George III von Erbach. She descends in female line from Maria Laskarina, the Byzantine wife of Béla IV of Hungary. Her mother was Anna Komnene Angelina, daughter of Byzantine Emperor Alexios III. Her maternal grandmother was a women of the Kantakouzenos family.

I wonder what haplogroup they could be.

Maciamo
02-06-17, 10:17
According to the Y-DNA testing of two illegitimate descendants (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hohenzollern-104) of Prince Albert of Prussia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Albert_of_Prussia_(1809%E2%80%931872)) (1809–1872), Geoffrey Rockel and Franz Rockel, the House of Hohenzollern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Hohenzollern) would belong to haplogroup I2-Y7219 (downstream of L701 and P78).

Rethel
03-06-17, 22:21
According to the Y-DNA testing of two illegitimate descendants (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hohenzollern-104)

It feels like humbug.
I did not find any trace of such offspring in any official biogram of his.
And btw, it is too risky to count them as such, if they were not aknowledge by him.
And even if, there is no guarantee, that he was not decieved.

Highlander
07-06-17, 13:46
According to the Y-DNA testing of two illegitimate descendants of Prince Albert of Prussia (1809–1872), Geoffrey Rockel and Franz Rockel, the House of Hohenzollern would belong to haplogroup I2-Y7219 (downstream of L701 and P78).

There's someone on another forum saying that their ancestor is the illegitimate child of some nobility. Their claim to fame is the fact said nobility was a bit odd & supposedly had numerous out-of-marriage children. Can they verify their claims, like how one can grab an eel in oily water.

My point, you can claim anything on the internet. I would put far more faith into one of his legitimate children. Cause who is to verify they are actually his children unless other members of the family DNA test and they are, given the recent years, relatively closely related and not 10th cousins twice removed.

MarkoZ
07-06-17, 14:16
There's someone on another forum saying that their ancestor is the illegitimate child of some nobility. Their claim to fame is the fact said nobility was a bit odd & supposedly had numerous out-of-marriage children. Can they verify their claims, like how one can grab an eel in oily water.

My point, you can claim anything on the internet. I would put far more faith into one of his legitimate children. Cause who is to verify they are actually his children unless other members of the family DNA test and they are, given the recent years, relatively closely related and not 10th cousins twice removed.


If google is to be believed there have been several hyphenated Hohenzollern-Rockels living in Germany until recently.

Fatherland
08-06-17, 17:13
Basarab Romania


http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0041803


http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0041803.t002

Messier 67
16-08-17, 19:11
Any study on the Habsburg Y-DNA? The Austrians or the Spanish could do the study.

Diomedes
01-10-17, 23:00
There are no modern kings for Greece. The last king was Perseus the Macedonian.

Elowen
18-10-17, 09:13
My mtdna was u5, how come so many west Europeans - like Germans and Austrians have it? I'd read that u5 was most common amongst the Sami people of Finland.

Elowen
18-10-17, 09:18
My mtdna was u5, how come so many west Europeans - like Germans and Austrians have it? I'd read that u5 was most common amongst the Sami people of Finland.


Ok looking further I realized I am U5a1 which is different, Sorry I didn't see an edit button.

Fire Haired14
18-10-17, 20:29
My mtdna was u5, how come so many west Europeans - like Germans and Austrians have it? I'd read that u5 was most common amongst the Sami people of Finland.

Highest U5%
Bashkir: 15%
Udmurt: 14%.
Mari: 13%
Norway: 13%
Sweden: 13%
Tatar: 12%
Estonia: 12%.
Belarus: 12%
Bosnia: 12%
Latvia: 11%
Lithuania: 11%

Lowest U5 %
Italy: 4-6%
Greece: 3%
Romania, Bulgaria: 4%.

The rest of Europe has 8-10%.

Fire Haired14
18-10-17, 20:39
My mtdna was u5, how come so many west Europeans - like Germans and Austrians have it? I'd read that u5 was most common amongst the Sami people of Finland.

I've got about 200 samples from Germany and Austria, each gets 10% U5. U5 is so frequent in Saami because of a founder effect. Almost all of their U5 is U5b1b1a.

U5 has no special connection to a particular ethnic or regional group like for example Saami. U5 can only be given the label of a "WHG" or Paleolithic European lineage. DNA from old bones shows it was in Europe 30ky. It's modern subclades for the most part began to spread across the continent 10ky-20ky. A large majority of mtDNA samples from Mesolithic human remains in Europe belong to U5.

But, U5 also took part in expansions long after the Mesolithic. For example; U5a1a1, U5a1b1, U5b2a2, U5b2a1a1, U5b2b1a, U5b1b1a, and more all were born and made big expansions less than 10ky.

Many forms of U5 can be associated with a particular region but U5 itself can not.

noman
18-10-17, 22:48
What was the y dna haplogroup of Alexander the great?

Bonnie4of8
19-11-17, 16:45
I am also Haplo Group H. I am wondering about it and where it comes from.

Grubbe
16-02-18, 09:48
https://rd.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7 The Hungarian king Bela III has been tested to be R1a - maybe Z280 or M458?

Dibran
16-02-18, 14:58
https://rd.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7 The Hungarian king Bela III has been tested to be R1a - maybe Z280 or M458?

More likely Z93, being descended from the Steppe. There is a small possibility Z280. It would really shake things up if he was M458(no aDNA yet).

Carlos
27-02-18, 16:26
I want to know the haplogroup of the Queen of Spain, Letizia,
because with his daughter Leonor, the Spanish blood returns to recover the throne of Spain.

Li CALZI
09-03-18, 16:00
I want to know the dna of Empress Elisabeth of Austria

shawnwbates
26-03-18, 22:17
Does anyone have Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh’s actual published STRs? Or know where I can find them? Thx

shawnwbates
26-03-18, 22:35
Did you get an answer to this question. I’m looking for the same info

Dema
13-04-18, 18:03
Y-DNA of Richard III was G2:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/royaldna.shtml



This site was very informative and nice source of information. Sadly, for some time now, its down.
Im sorry i didnt save entire page so i could do offline browsing.

Does anyone has any info about this? Or any alternative source of information similar to this?


Eupedia could had something like this but that is work, and work is time. Even tho there is something like this but on much lower scale and not so interesting from my perspective.

Johane Derite
13-04-18, 18:32
How come there is no DNA testing being done of Philips remains? I want to know what haplogroup the Argead dynasty was.

LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_II_of_Macedon#Tomb_of_Philip_II_at_Aigai

KasiaG
22-09-18, 12:09
Trying to extend the lines of known descendant of Charlemagne in my own genealogy, I realized one of them had a mt-descendant who tested and she has royalties on her mt-line (which is not mine, unfortunately).

Her name is Catherine Couvent, she married Philippe Amiot in Épieds around 1625.

At FTDNA's French Heritage DNA Project, her mt-descendant was given plain H* for haplogroup and their HVR1+2 mutations are:
HVR1: A16129G, T16187C, C16189T, T16223C, G16230A, T16278C, C16311T
HVR2: G73A, C146T, C152T, C195T, A247G, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C

(...)

Although still quite speculative, it could be of interest to this thread.

I am new to the mtDNA, and found this page just typing my mutations. I seem to share all HVR2 mutations with that lady, which is surprising to me as I am Polish and know nothing about any French connections, not to mention to French nobles. As I remember having read that HVR1 and 2 regions are not especially useful for genenalogy, started musing if these HVR2 are just very basic mutations available in all people with my haplotype - H7a1, inherited from the ancient era perhaps... ;) Am ready to learn from you...

KasiaG
02-10-18, 09:23
OK, so anwering myself, as in the meantime someone more knowledgeable explained basics to me. I misunderstood the H* group for a basic H with no details tested (was confused by the *, as mark for 'anything' for search in some dababases), so potentially could be even H7a1 as myself. In fact, it is rather a separate 'plain' H haplogroup. So even if I share some mutations with this person, it does not mean relation in historical time. I then consider my case closed.

Joey37
03-10-18, 18:08
I want to know the Y-haplogroup of the original Romanovs. The Rurikids are N1c and the later Romanovs descended from the House of Holstein-Gottorp in male line are R1b. I bet the original Romanovs were R1a, either Z280 or M458, or possibly N1c but a different clade than the Rurikids.

firetown
15-10-18, 01:49
Very curious the Z1a MtDNA. ¿How common it really is between Swedish people and other Scandinavians?
Uncommon.
10455
The greatest clade diversity of haplogroup Z is found in Korea, northern China, and Central Asia. However, its greatest frequency appears in some peoples of Russia and among the Saami people of northern Scandinavia.

kmak
02-01-19, 19:55
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/frenchheritage?iframe=yresults François Savoie, 1621-1678, France R-Z367

Savoy Dynasty is R-Z367?

Venko2257
16-02-19, 15:49
House of Wittelsbach may be I1, according to an interview with Bulgarian geneticist Evgeni Delev. Link is only in Bulgarian: http://www.desant.net/show-news/25122/

In the answer to the fourth question, Mr. Delev says that a man named Nikola Tsvyatkov from a village called Fakiya in the Strandzha Mountains turned out to be I1. This is an unusual haplogroup for Bulgaria, so further tests were done and apparently it was decided that this person could very well be patrilineally descended from a King of Sweden from the House of Wittelsbach, perhaps through an illegitimate son.

However, I have no idea who else was tested to prove this connection. In any case, it is true that three Swedish Kings belonged to that illustrious dynasty.

eastara
05-03-19, 13:39
House of Wittelsbach may be I1, according to an interview with Bulgarian geneticist Evgeni Delev. Link is only in Bulgarian: http://www.desant.net/show-news/25122/

In the answer to the fourth question, Mr. Delev says that a man named Nikola Tsvyatkov from a village called Fakiya in the Strandzha Mountains turned out to be I1. This is an unusual haplogroup for Bulgaria, so further tests were done and apparently it was decided that this person could very well be patrilineally descended from a King of Sweden from the House of Wittelsbach, perhaps through an illegitimate son.

However, I have no idea who else was tested to prove this connection. In any case, it is true that three Swedish Kings belonged to that illustrious dynasty.

Nikola Tsvyatkov is in fact I2a2b-L38, presumably from the East European BY25359 branch. There are already a few Bulgarians and Macedonians found with it, so not unusual for Bulgaria. His claim to royalty was ridiculously based on the fact that Charles XII stopped at his village sometimes when fled to Turkey. It is considered also that Charles XII was gay, so he would be more interested in the young Janissaries who guarded him.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-BY25359/

Venko2257
05-03-19, 16:07
Yes, it appears that whatever Mr. Delev says has to be taken with a grain of salt. I do know that Karl XII of Sweden did live for a time in the Ottoman Empire between his military campaigns. Yes, he could have been gay or even asexual. This doesn't necessarily preclude him from having had children though. Just look at King Edward II of England or Philippe, Duke of Orleans.

In any case, however, I do not know of any Wittelsbach having been tested before for a Y-chromosome haplogroup. It would be interesting to see what is the truth in the matter.

losAntonis
26-04-19, 14:23
Nikola Tsvyatkov is in fact I2a2b-L38, presumably from the East European BY25359 branch. There are already a few Bulgarians and Macedonians found with it, so not unusual for Bulgaria. His claim to royalty was ridiculously based on the fact that Charles XII stopped at his village sometimes when fled to Turkey. It is considered also that Charles XII was gay, so he would be more interested in the young Janissaries who guarded him.


Dear eastara.
I don't speak Bulgarian and don't know who Nikola Tsvyatkov is, but I am BY25359 and would like to know, who he is, or why he should be linked to Swedish Kings.
Thank you.

Connie
28-04-19, 08:34
I think it would be very helpful if archeological remains recovered and tombs of kings, queens, emperors and fraternal relatives or descendants were tested for DNA.

I have read a tooth may have undamaged DNA.

Venko2257
29-04-19, 19:01
Nikola Tsvyatkov, according to the interview with "geneticist" Evgeni Delev, is just a man from the Strandzha region in Southeastern Bulgaria, specifically from a village called Fakiya, which is very close to the Turkish border. As Eastara helpfully pointed out, there is hardly any evidence that he descends from any Swedish king at all. Again, I do not believe that any member of the House of Wittelsbach has ever been tested (commercially or not). Such things are usually done in cases such as that of King Richard III of England, i.e. to additionally serve as confirmation that the remains are legitimate, so to speak.

Connie, you are absolutely right. Recently, I watched a documentary about Ancient Egyptian mummies. There had been some debate whether a head had belonged to a governor or to his wife. The FBI specialists simply extracted DNA from a tooth (unlikely to have been contaminated) and found a Y-Chromosome. There you go! :)

Connie
30-04-19, 02:13
There is desecration at Basilica of St Denis, my direct ancestors, and burning of Notre-Dame Cathedral.

I think an effort to do DNA should be made, there and elsewhere.

I have noticed more and more archeological sites are getting DNA.

Venko2257
30-04-19, 08:48
Interesting that you mention this. Thanks to the "efforts" of the French revolutionaries in 1793, almost nothing remains from the French kings, queens and their predecessors. I believe that the only King of the Franks, whose remains still lie in the Saint Denis Basilica, is Louis VII (l. 1120 - 1180). The reason is that he was only buried there in 1817, during the reign of his descendant King Louis XVIII, who is actually also buried there.

Personally, I believe that these remains should rest in peace and not be disturbed just for satisfying one's curiosity. But for the other cases, I think that's OK.

Connie
30-04-19, 23:26
I am only related to Louis VII thru his wife, and my 27th ggf 1005-1035.

However, I read during The French Revolution bones were removed and put in a mass grave and later uncovered all jumbled together.

It seems to me the forensics and DNA tests we have, today, could sort the bones first by male and female, then, date the bones as archeological find bones are dated (carbon?) then add the DNA to this list.

For example, could 44th ggf Dagobert I 603-639 be there?

For example, is there anything about the Mergovingians mythic stories? in terms of migration?

..anything at all.

In terms of genealogy, the ancestral lines are of historical record.

I find one direct ancestor and someone else has already documented that family line.

It would be a contribution to historical record and to DNA to have the DNA found in the mass grave bones known, even if not sorted out.


PS

I saw on a Facebook group there is a density of bone in the area of the inner ear that provided ancient DNA.

The DNA migrations are worthwhile, and the kings lines help DNA work because their marriages and children are in historical record.

Venko2257
01-05-19, 09:16
I am only related to Louis VII thru his wife, and my 27th ggf 1005-1035.

However, I read during The French Revolution bones were removed and put in a mass grave and later uncovered all jumbled together.

It seems to me the forensics and DNA tests we have, today, could sort the bones first by male and female, then, date the bones as archeological find bones are dated (carbon?) then add the DNA to this list.

For example, could 44th ggf Dagobert I 603-639 be there?

For example, is there anything about the Mergovingians mythic stories? in terms of migration?

..anything at all.

In terms of genealogy, the ancestral lines are of historical record.

I find one direct ancestor and someone else has already documented that family line.

It would be a contribution to historical record and to DNA to have the DNA found in the mass grave bones known, even if not sorted out.


PS

I saw on a Facebook group there is a density of bone in the area of the inner ear that provided ancient DNA.

The DNA migrations are worthwhile, and the kings lines help DNA work because their marriages and children are in historical record.

Here is a list of the kings and queens who had been lain to rest in the Saint-Denis Basilica. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_Saint-Denis#Burials

You write that King Dagobert I was a 44th great-grandfather of yours. While possible, it should be noted that there is absolutely no man or woman living today, who has any kind of proven descent from a Merovingian. As for the Carolingians, there are quite a lot of them, just not in the male line (possibly).

The following link details the story of what happened for the French Republic's first anniversary in 1793. https://mavcor.yale.edu/conversations/essays/revolutionary-exhumations-st-denis-1793

Here's a quote: "For the Festival of Reunion on August 10 that marked its birth, the coffins of the oldest dynasties in the upper church of St.-Denis were emptied, lead removed for recasting, and the remains moved to a trench by the demolished Valois Chapel. The Bourbon crypt was opened as a prelude to Marie-Antoinette’s execution on October 16 (Louis was beheaded the prior January 21) and the remains (including hearts and entrails) dumped in a new trench. The bodies of the preceding Valois dynasty followed into a third trench, along with any corpses still left. The transfer dismembered most cadavers before the quicklime deposited on top could corrode them. In 1817, when the restored Bourbon monarchy returned the remains to the basilica, all that survived intact were the lower portions of three corpses. The fragments of about one hundred and fifty-eight once-sacred bodies fit into two large ossuaries in the crypt."

Long story short, I don't think anything worthwhile exists from these royals anymore. But that was the whole point of it, really.

Until a few years ago, it was assumed that the head of King Henri IV (1589-1610) may have survived (kind of), but the testing carried out on three current Bourbon princes tells a different story. Or, there could have simply been a Non-Paternity Event. Which is why the whole Y-DNA business is rather tricky. King Louis XIV could have been the father of his brother's son(s), and no one today would know the difference.

I hope the above helps!

Joey37
01-05-19, 20:09
I would be interested in the House of Wittlesbach haplogroup, as most of my German ancestors were either from Bavaria or the Palatinate, two historic Wittlesbach properties. I1, eh? That's kind of more rare in southern Germany, it could be it's a Frankish clade.

Venko2257
01-05-19, 20:57
I would be interested in the House of Wittlesbach haplogroup, as most of my German ancestors were either from Bavaria or the Palatinate, two historic Wittlesbach properties. I1, eh? That's kind of more rare in southern Germany, it could be it's a Frankish clade.

I wouldn't be so sure about it, Joey. Nowhere in the actual interview is it actually stated that the King of Sweden belonged to the House of Wittelsbach, it was just heavily implied. Of the three, Karl XII did visit the Bulgarian lands in the early 18th century, but he died unmarried and no illegitimate children of his are known, so it's unlikely that he had any whatsoever.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the Wittelsbachs do belong to R1b instead. We'll see...

Connie
02-05-19, 03:03
Venko2257, Thank you for the link.

I said I am not a genealogist.

I have documented direct ancestors that are kings, queens, saints and popes (at a time they married) and emperors. They are people of historical record.

I have looked a little at the legendary ancestors, and cousins, and others to see if we have a common ancestor. I am open-minded about it because I do not care. I look at the family tree because I look for their stories, the real and authentic history.

..that said, others keep peerages and histories and are very concerned about documentation.

I add their hard work to my family tree.

That's it.

It is my experience the descendant of Polish nobility had my Philip of Swabia and Emperors I didn't know I had.

Those tracing their Hamilton's had my direct ancestor kings in Wales and Brittany.

It is like that. Do not think only the French know the French or the English the English.

I identify as pre-Roman era Scot. I do not accept kings.

I do not accept Scots are Celts (the Germanic river people) or Picts (blue paint) because our family story speaks of their arrival.

Me? I am interested in ancient DNA and Haplogroup maps!

Venko2257
02-05-19, 09:13
Venko2257, Thank you for the link.

I said I am not a genealogist.

I have documented direct ancestors that are kings, queens, saints and popes (at a time they married) and emperors. They are people of historical record.

I have looked a little at the legendary ancestors, and cousins, and others to see if we have a common ancestor. I am open-minded about it because I do not care. I look at the family tree because I look for their stories, the real and authentic history.

..that said, others keep peerages and histories and are very concerned about documentation.

I add their hard work to my family tree.

That's it.

It is my experience the descendant of Polish nobility had my Philip of Swabia and Emperors I didn't know I had.

Those tracing their Hamilton's had my direct ancestor kings in Wales and Brittany.

It is like that. Do not think only the French know the French or the English the English.

I identify as pre-Roman era Scot. I do not accept kings.

I do not accept Scots are Celts (the Germanic river people) or Picts (blue paint) because our family story speaks of their arrival.

Me? I am interested in ancient DNA and Haplogroup maps!

You're welcome!

It is nice to know someone who can link themselves to the so-called "World Family Tree". Unfortunately, it does not quite seem possible for a person from my country :(

Angela
02-05-19, 18:27
Are people aware that many of those internet "trees" are bogus?

davef
02-05-19, 19:19
Are people aware that many of those internet "trees" are bogus?
Are you talking about those crazy trees that claim to trace e.g. a French king to an ancient royal such as King Ramses or Alexander the Great lol

Connie
02-05-19, 19:28
I have seen some of those.. yikes!

Venko2257, at least you have your haplogroups and migration maps of ancient peoples.

I sent my brother his DNA test so I could have Y-DNA test results.

My first cousin (our mothers are sisters) had her mT-DNA test results.

Venko2257
02-05-19, 19:59
I have seen some of those.. yikes!

Venko2257, at least you have your haplogroups and migration maps of ancient peoples.

I sent my brother his DNA test so I could have Y-DNA test results.

My first cousin (our mothers are sisters) had her mT-DNA test results.

Yes, at least the DNA can speak even if the person cannot. That's some relief.

But then again, Bulgarian results are very confusing, due to our... interesting history.

Salento
02-05-19, 21:43
Are you talking about those crazy trees that claim to trace e.g. a French king to an ancient royal such as King Ramses or Alexander the Great lol

It’s obviously completely real for the Presidents, 23andme and NatGeo said that I’m totally 1000% related to Thomas Jefferson. LOL

Seriously :satisfied: :grin:

Venko2257
03-05-19, 08:23
It’s obviously completely real for the Presidents, 23andme and NatGeo said that I’m totally 1000% related to Thomas Jefferson. LOL

Seriously :satisfied: :grin:

Well, unless you are secretly an alien or something not of this Earth, then you are indeed related to Thomas Jefferson :grin:

Salento
03-05-19, 14:10
Well, unless you are secretly an alien or something not of this Earth, then you are indeed related to Thomas Jefferson :grin:

If you're right, the result will be the opposite:

Thomas Jefferson is totally 1000% related to Me (and not the other way around) :grin:

the Y chr rules :) (mtDNA rules too) :satisfied:


... The y-chromosome is inherited more or less unchanged from father to son to grandson, indefinitely ...

Venko2257
04-05-19, 18:44
You may have seen this already, but according to Brad Michael Little's website "The King's son", the Y-Chromosomal haplogroup of the House of Hesse has been found and it is R1b-L21.

Here's a link: https://www.the-kings-son.com/royal_hesse_haplogroup

Yet another R1b, eh? I wonder who was tested? One probably has to read his book to find out :rolleyes2:

05-05-19, 00:27
I've always assumed that if I found someone famous in my family tree it had to be a mistake. In fact, the reverse would be worse. I mean, what if I was a descendent of Thomas Jefferson, J.P. Morgan, or the King of Swabia? The only question would be, what the heck happened to you that you wound up as Joe ordinary?

Venko2257
05-05-19, 08:34
I've always assumed that if I found someone famous in my family tree it had to be a mistake. In fact, the reverse would be worse. I mean, what if I was a descendent of Thomas Jefferson, J.P. Morgan, or the King of Swabia? The only question would be, what the heck happened to you that you wound up as Joe ordinary?
You were exchanged with another baby? Oh, it was a rhetorical question. Silly me... :grin:
P. S. I haven't actually read BML's book, but based on some implications I have arrived at the conclusion that his grandfather's father was Prince Louis of Battenberg (1854-1921). Isn't it quite brave in that case to claim that he (Louis) belonged to the House of Hesse, considering that Grand Duke Ludwig II was unlikely to have been his biological grandfather?

Angela
05-05-19, 16:57
I've always assumed that if I found someone famous in my family tree it had to be a mistake. In fact, the reverse would be worse. I mean, what if I was a descendent of Thomas Jefferson, J.P. Morgan, or the King of Swabia? The only question would be, what the heck happened to you that you wound up as Joe ordinary?

It could also be someone "objectionable" according to your world view. I was raised to despise our local aristocracy. They're all blood suckers in my opinion. I have no idea why people want to be related to them.

When I looked at my mother's ancestry I saw their name littered all over. I console myself that they were probably people who worked for them and took the name.

On my father's side things are a little better. My paternal grandmother's family did found the village, with the attendant coat of arms, but everybody up there was probably fleeing from the powers that be, or were, so that makes it better. There's also a privateer from Rimini on my father's side. Another fugitive. I'm not "proud" of him, but at least he's interesting.

When you get down to it, if it's more than two hundred years ago it's extremely doubtful you share any dna with them at all.

I'm far more interested in the people of my area(s) as a whole, all of whom are probably "cousins" to one degree or another.

Venko2257
05-05-19, 17:43
It could also be someone "objectionable" according to your world view. I was raised to despise our local aristocracy. They're all blood suckers in my opinion. I have no idea why people want to be related to them.


Leaving aside your personal opinions about the merits of your local aristocracy (for now), you make an interesting point. Who would want to be related to them?

I would. No, I am not seeking any titles. It is just that expanding my family tree would become a hundred times easier. For many centuries royals and nobles have kept records of their marriages and progeny much better than the ordinary people such as you and I.

Some nobles could have been described as blood-suckers, others not. Even amongst my closest relatives there are people who are not the most pleasant of folks. But in the end, we're all born equal (yes, even those with disabilities) and we all have the same opportunities. Apparently.

I hope that you will see and understand my opinion as I have seen and understood yours.

I know that you are very knowledgeable about everything DNA-related, but it just doesn't sound right coming from a person like you to outright ignore those who were simply born in luxury...

...like Trump, for instance (hey, see what I did there?) :grin:

Angela
05-05-19, 18:09
Leaving aside your personal opinions about the merits of your local aristocracy (for now), you make an interesting point. Who would want to be related to them?

I would. No, I am not seeking any titles. It is just that expanding my family tree would become a hundred times easier. For many centuries royals and nobles have kept records of their marriages and progeny much better than the ordinary people such as you and I.

Some nobles could have been described as blood-suckers, others not. Even amongst my closest relatives there are people who are not the most pleasant of folks. But in the end, we're all born equal (yes, even those with disabilities) and we all have the same opportunities. Apparently.

I hope that you will see and understand my opinion as I have seen and understood yours.

I know that you are very knowledgeable about everything DNA-related, but it just doesn't sound right coming from a person like you to outright ignore those who were simply born in luxury...

...like Trump, for instance (hey, see what I did there?) :grin:

I don't ignore any data, including my own. That applies to both genealogical and genetic data.

I'm just saying that depending on world view the results may or may not be welcome.

Venko2257
05-05-19, 18:39
I don't ignore any data, including my own. That applies to both genealogical and genetic data.

I'm just saying that depending on world view the results may or may not be welcome.

You're welcome!

I was kind of expecting a scathing retort, so that's a pleasant surprise :smile:

05-05-19, 19:34
It could also be someone "objectionable" according to your world view.

That's the position I'm in. There is a branch of my family (maybe, can't really prove it) that became rich as London merchants in the 17th century. Of course that meant they were slave traders (the biggest of the independent traders). I've done all the research I can (the family died out in the male line in the late 19th century), but if I can never prove the connection I'll be alright with that.

Angela
05-05-19, 19:41
You're welcome!

I was kind of expecting a scathing retort, so that's a pleasant surprise :smile:

Goodness. I'm sorry to hear you felt that way.

When you see me giving a really scathing retort it's almost always because the poster is a known nordicist/racist and/or t-roll with a long history here and all over the internet. Oh, people who have an obvious agenda and either refuse to acknowledge the actual data, or if they do try to twist it to fit their agenda also qualify. They're usually known entities as well.

There's a limit to how much of all that I can tolerate, and it's been YEARS!

Reasonable people just attempting to figure all this out, no matter their level of expertise, are always welcome and respected.

Venko2257
05-05-19, 20:00
Goodness. I'm sorry to hear you felt that way.

When you see me giving a really scathing retort it's almost always because the poster is a known nordicist/racist and/or t-roll with a long history here and all over the internet. Oh, people who have an obvious agenda and either refuse to acknowledge the actual data, or if they do try to twist it to fit their agenda also qualify. They're usually known entities as well.

There's a limit to how much of all that I can tolerate, and it's been YEARS!

Reasonable people just attempting to figure all this out, no matter their level of expertise, are always welcome and respected.

Thanks for that! I know very well what you mean, which is why I stay away from some threads which could be very interesting otherwise.

matty74
05-05-19, 20:57
Goodness. I'm sorry to hear you felt that way.

When you see me giving a really scathing retort it's almost always because the poster is a known nordicist/racist and/or t-roll with a long history here and all over the internet. Oh, people who have an obvious agenda and either refuse to acknowledge the actual data, or if they do try to twist it to fit their agenda also qualify. They're usually known entities as well.

There's a limit to how much of all that I can tolerate, and it's been YEARS!

Reasonable people just attempting to figure all this out, no matter their level of expertise, are always welcome and respected.

What exactly is a Nordicist? Are they known to be racists or what? I'm still feeling my way about this forum...I've seen a few ****** and racists on theapracity.com but I normally just chalk that up to youthful silliness and a general lack of education & social graces amongst some of the younger members there. The whole Germanic/Slav thing seems to be a big deal too. Some people have way too much invested in that subject. It's not surprising given the recent history of the regions involved.

Rethel
05-05-19, 21:29
I was raised to despise our local aristocracy.

It explains a lot... I am so sorry for you.

Angela
05-05-19, 21:57
What exactly is a Nordicist? Are they known to be racists or what? I'm still feeling my way about this forum...I've seen a few ****** and racists on theapracity.com but I normally just chalk that up to youthful silliness and a general lack of education & social graces amongst some of the younger members there. The whole Germanic/Slav thing seems to be a big deal too. Some people have way too much invested in that subject. It's not surprising given the recent history of the regions involved.

Both Slavicism and Nordicism are forms of racism I suppose you could say, both proposing the idea that the inhabitants of those parts of Europe are "superior" to the rest. An extreme form of Nordicism is Nazism.

It used to be that Nordicists tied their "superiority" to being descendants of the "Indo-Europeans", and, of course, to having more blue eyed blondes among them. That's abated a bit with the discovery the Yamnaya weren't so "Nordic" after all, and definitely weren't blonde and blue eyed, so it has switched to Corded Ware from what I can tell. Then, the Slavs, viewed as "untermenschen" by the Germans, have vociferously taken to saying "they're" the closest descendants of the Indo-Europeans, so they're the "really" superior ones. That's Eurogenes whole raison d'etre. Maybe it's partly understandable some go down this road given their history.

Then, to make things even more muddled, we have the Nordicist Spaniards and Italians fighting over which one is less Nordic and blonde than the other. We used to be infested by the Spanish variety, thankfully now gone.

And let's not forget the people from the Balkans, who all hate one another it seems, or at least the ones on this site do, with the Albanians apparently hated by everyone, and they hating everyone else, but especially the Greeks. They all have their foundation "myths", and some try very hard to twist the data to fit them.

They don't just inhabit theapricity (some of whose founding members were sent to prison), or sites like stormfront, which is probably monitored by dozens of government agencies, but also make their appearance on sites like anthrogenica and even here under "sock" names occasionally. Eventually, most of them reveal their true colors.

I think they're all mad as hatters, and most of them, as you've been able to discern, know very little to nothing of history. The ones who know a little are more dangerous because they're able to twist and massage the facts.

Trying to keep everybody civil, and correcting posts when they are just too egregiously "wrong" and confounded by the actual data is a thankless task, and I'm sorry to say that sometimes I lose my temper, especially when such attempts are met with personal insults personally, ethnically, and in terms of my gender. The really disgusting ones are usually PMs, so everyone else is spared them.

06-05-19, 01:15
As to thankless tasks, this doesn't make it any easier for you, but Thank You. You seem like a nice lady, but maybe not one I wanted to meet in the third grade (I was a bad child who needed a strong hand).

Angela
06-05-19, 02:09
As to thankless tasks, this doesn't make it any easier for you, but Thank You. You seem like a nice lady, but maybe not one I wanted to meet in the third grade (I was a bad child who needed a strong hand).

Well, in third grade, in every grade really, I was always teacher's pet, the one who never broke the rules, who was left in charge when sister left the room, who was Mary in every May Day procession, the one who played a nun in the school play and was given one of their own veils.

You would no doubt have hated me. :)

As a mother I was strict, according to my children, with values from another world, but I was also very indulgent in a lot of ways. Patience didn't come easily to me, and what I had I used up on them (and my husband). :)

I have very little left for adults, especially malign adults who want to cause injury to other people.

davef
06-05-19, 06:37
in elementary school I was literally dragged to the principal's office countless times. It wasn't until high school and especially college/university when I turned a new leaf and graduated with strong grades and I owe much of this to my diagnosis of ADHD and the medication that came with it

matty74
06-05-19, 07:18
I was never a teacher's pet, always the kid with a chip on his shoulder. I once got kicked off the bus for punching an older kid who bullied us in the face. He started crying so I hit him again. He never bothered us again though! My mom drove me to school the rest of the year. Another time I got an in-school suspension for 3 days. Another kid who tried flicking my ear from behind in biology class my freshman year of HS. I wigged out, and turned around and punched him in the face about 10-15 times before the teacher could peel me off him. He had just gotten braces a few days before, so it looked way worse than it actually was. I was otherwise pretty laid back and mild mannered kid, just had to work towards curbing that aggression.

Venko2257
06-05-19, 08:34
And let's not forget the people from the Balkans, who all hate one another it seems, or at least the ones on this site do, with the Albanians apparently hated by everyone, and they hating everyone else, but especially the Greeks. They all have their foundation "myths", and some try very hard to twist the data to fit them.



Absolutely true. Being from that region, it's extremely frustrating.

As for being a teacher's pet, I know the feeling. It's even worse when your mother is one of the teachers (but fortunately, she never taught me, for my own sake). It didn't really get away when I went to high school :sad:

07-05-19, 01:04
I was never a teacher's pet, always the kid with a chip on his shoulder. I once got kicked off the bus for punching an older kid who bullied us in the face. He started crying so I hit him again. He never bothered us again though! My mom drove me to school the rest of the year. Another time I got an in-school suspension for 3 days. Another kid who tried flicking my ear from behind in biology class my freshman year of HS. I wigged out, and turned around and punched him in the face about 10-15 times before the teacher could peel me off him. He had just gotten braces a few days before, so it looked way worse than it actually was. I was otherwise pretty laid back and mild mannered kid, just had to work towards curbing that aggression.

Is this what the "kids" call a humble brag?

Jujubeecz
01-08-19, 20:10
I match all the numbers except one what does that mean?

Jujubeecz
01-08-19, 20:11
I match all the dna numbers except one what does that mean?

Jujubeecz
14-08-19, 23:55
All my numbers match hers except 1 i have g16229a g73a c146t c152t c195t a247g 315.1c 522.1a 522.2c this is mine juliana

Jujubeecz
14-08-19, 23:57
HVR1 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS


[*=center]A16129G
[*=center]T16187C
[*=center]C16189T
[*=center]T16223C
[*=center]G16230A
[*=center]C16239T
[*=center]T16278C
[*=center]C16311T



HVR2 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS


[*=center]G73A
[*=center]C146T
[*=center]C152T
[*=center]C195T
[*=center]A247G
[*=center]315.1C
[*=center]522.1A
[*=center]522.2C



CODING REGION DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS


[*=center]A769G
[*=center]A825t
[*=center]A1018G
[*=center]G2706A
[*=center]A2758G
[*=center]C2885T
[*=center]G3010A
[*=center]T3594C
[*=center]G4104A
[*=center]T4312C
[*=center]T7028C
[*=center]G7146A
[*=center]T7256C
[*=center]A7521G
[*=center]T8468C
[*=center]T8655C
[*=center]G8701A
[*=center]C9540T
[*=center]G10398A
[*=center]T10664C
[*=center]A10688G
[*=center]C10810T
[*=center]C10873T
[*=center]C10915T
[*=center]A11719G
[*=center]A11914G
[*=center]T12705C
[*=center]G13105A
[*=center]G13276A
[*=center]T13506C
[*=center]T13650C
[*=center]T14766C





THESE ARE MY NUMBERS MY GRANDFATHER WAS OTTO VON HABSBURG THE LAST KING.

Fegalevac
15-08-19, 07:21
Interestingly, thanks a lot for making some points clear.

New Englander
11-01-20, 14:05
This is my Haplogroup breakdown on Mytrueancestry. Is is common to have so many royal matches? Its only R1b I am getting these matches for.
11734

Joey37
12-01-20, 00:34
Wow, you're R1b and most of your matches aren't. I am R1a and 2/3 of my matches are R1b.

Bonnieangel47
03-08-20, 16:54
I share the same mt-haplogroup!

Bonnieangel47
03-08-20, 16:57
Actually my mt-haplogroup is R. Is that like " the cheese stands alone?" or am I still connected?

Bonnieangel47
03-08-20, 16:58
Why isn't there any DNA on the Tudor kings and the wives?

03-08-20, 20:01
Wow, you're R1b and most of your matches aren't. I am R1a and 2/3 of my matches are R1b.

I think that has more to do with R1b being so common. I am G2a and have only a "sliver" of G in my Y-DNA summary.

kmak
07-10-20, 07:14
I wonder y dna of the peter the great? who knows?

Joey37
08-10-20, 14:49
Peter the Great possessed the original Romanov y-dna (the later part of the dynasty is descended from his daughter Anna and has the Holstein-Gottorp German R1b, U106) and was of a native Russian line, so he could have been N1c, I2a, or more likely R1a, either Z280-CTS1211 or Z280-Z92, or maybe even the East Slavic M458, L1029-YP417.