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motatalea
05-05-09, 20:12
Mr Maciamo iam really sorry for inconvenience to you just only a comment please

your subject[Romans, Celts and Germans

Celtic, Italic and Germanic people are all descended from the same R1b1b2 stock. They split north of the Alps.

The Italic branch went south and mixed with the Terramare people who were I2a, G2a and E-V13. Northern Italians have more Indo-European Celto-Italic blood, while southern Italian have more indigenous blood (the highest being Sardinia, then Basilicata).

The Germanic branch moved north and mixed with the indigenous I1 and I2b people, who had already mixed with R1a migrants from the Corded Ware (Battle Axe) culture. The new hybrid Germanic people retained the highest percentage of aboriginal haplogroup I.

Celtic people split in several groups : the Brythonic went to Britain and Ireland, the Gaulish to France, the Iberian to Spain and Portugal, and the Alpine remained around Austria, Switzerland, southern Germany, Eastern France and Belgium. The Iberian and Gaulish groups mixed with I2b, I2a and E people, the Alpine with I2b and E, and the Brythonic just with I2b people.

It is likely that the language of the aboriginal Europeans influenced the various Celtic, Italic and Germanic dialects. Germanic languages diverted the most from the original European R1b language because it assimilated a very large part of aborigines.

From about 700 BCE, the Etruscans settled around Tuscany and the Greeks in southern Italy. Etruscans probably came from Palestine and brought haplogroups J1, J2 and E with them. The Greeks in Italy were Doric and brought J2, E, G2a and probably more R1b (see above). The Romans progressively absorbed the Etruscans and Italian Greeks and mixed with them. By the time of Julius Caesar Roman citizens were probably composed of 45% of R1b, 20% of J, 15% of E, 15% of G2a and 5% of I2a. ]

My question : Do you mean that the Italics, Germans and Celtics people are descented from the stock R1b U152 which has gone south and intermarried with terramare cultue and went north to form the germanic people? Do you mean that this halstatt stock (R1b S28)is the one who formed germanic ,celtic and italic people ?

Maciamo
06-05-09, 00:01
It is likely that the language of the aboriginal Europeans influenced the various Celtic, Italic and Germanic dialects. Germanic languages diverted the most from the original European R1b language because it assimilated a very large part of aborigines.

I think that it is very likely that aboriginal European languages influenced Celtic, Italic and Germanic languages. The influence would be strongest regarding pronuciation and loan words specific to cultural or local specificities for which Indo-European languages had no term.

It is often the case that when two populations mix and one imposes its language on the other, new dialects emerged quickly. This is what happened with English in various parts of the world. Indian English, Singaporian English or South African English have diveged substantially from the original.

American English has evolved too due to the ethnic melting po. For instance some grammatical rules were loosened to accommodate non-native speakers. That's why Americans can "real good" instead of "really good" and "I just ate" instead or "I have just eaten".

Similar processes must have happened in Bronze-age Europe, which is why the Italo-Celtic root language quickly evolved into Insular Celtic, Gaulish Celtic, Iberian Celtic and Italic. Italic probably diverged most from the others because the aboriginal population was not predominantly descended of haplogroup I, but E, G and J.


My question : Do you mean that the Italics, Germans and Celtics people are descented from the stock R1b U152 which has gone south and intermarried with terramare cultue and went north to form the germanic people? Do you mean that this halstatt stock (R1b S28)is the one who formed germanic ,celtic and italic people ?

Yes, although it wasn't just R1b-S28, but R1b-S116 and its other subclades. S28 was especially influencial for Gaulish Celtic and Italic languages. In the case of Germanic languages also R1b-U106, which separated earlier from other R1b. That's why the Germanic language branch also diverged earlier from the Italo-Celtic one. The Hallstatt migration of S28 to the Germanic territory probably influenced more the bronze-working culture than the language.

motatalea
06-05-09, 00:28
I think that it is very likely that aboriginal European languages influenced Celtic, Italic and Germanic languages. The influence would be strongest regarding pronuciation and loan words specific to cultural or local specificities for which Indo-European languages had no term.

It is often the case that when two populations mix and one imposes its language on the other, new dialects emerged quickly. This is what happened with English in various parts of the world. Indian English, Singaporian English or South African English have diveged substantially from the original.

American English has evolved too due to the ethnic melting po. For instance some grammatical rules were loosened to accommodate non-native speakers. That's why Americans can "real good" instead of "really good" and "I just ate" instead or "I have just eaten".

Similar processes must have happened in Bronze-age Europe, which is why the Italo-Celtic root language quickly evolved into Insular Celtic, Gaulish Celtic, Iberian Celtic and Italic. Italic probably diverged most from the others because the aboriginal population was not predominantly descended of haplogroup I, but E, G and J.



Yes, although it wasn't just R1b-S28, but R1b-S116 and its other subclades. S28 was especially influencial for Gaulish Celtic and Italic languages. In the case of Germanic languages also R1b-U106, which separated earlier from other R1b. That's why the Germanic language branch also diverged earlier from the Italo-Celtic one. The Hallstatt migration of S28 to the Germanic territory probably influenced more the bronze-working culture than the language.

Thank you too much