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Haganus
05-10-09, 17:34
Behore the Indo-European's arrival hunter tribes lived in Western-Europe
from the Upper-Palaeolithic and Mesolithic. Hans Gunther (German anthropologist) and Coone thought these hunters were descendants
of the ancient Aurignac (Bruenn) and Cro-Magnon men. It is supposed
that they had big skulls, blue eyes and fair/red hair. The Irish, the German
so called Faelish race (read Hans Guenther and Coon), very numerous
in Western Germany, Netherlands and Denmark) were descendants of
these hunters. But what has happened with these descendants?
Most of the inhabitants of the Lower Countries, British Islands, Western
Germany and Denmark belong to the haplogroup R1b. It is for me a
difficult thing to accept that this haplogroup originated from south Russia. But if this haplogroup shoud originate from south Russia, what has happened with the descendants of the West-European Cro-Magnons?

Who has been in the north of the Netherlands, West-German coast
areas (Ost-Friesland, Oldenburg) and Jutland? There are no areas
(also not in Sweden or Norway) in the world where you can find so
pure descendants of the West European Upperpaleolithics as there.
The rural populations had practically all real blue eyes and light fair/
red hair. In Friesland, Groningen and East-Friesland in the country
side dark eyes are totally absent. Maybe there are the purest descendants of the Germanic tribes which Tacitus described in his
Germania!

Genocentrist
05-10-09, 20:29
It is for me a
difficult thing to accept that this haplogroup originated from south Russia. But if this haplogroup shoud originate from south Russia, what has happened with the descendants of the West-European Cro-Magnons?!

R1b1b2-M269 people seem to be good at fathering the native females & making the native males disappear, I will use a recent example of an R1b1b2 influx (not as pure as the Neolithic R1b1b2 that entered Europe), but the Iberians that arrived to the New World were about 60% R1b & you will find a not so diff % of R1b1b2 in Urban Mexico, although they look nothing like the R1b1b2 of Jutland

If you don't liek teh above example, how about this one...

The natives of the USA disappeared in less than 500years they became less than 1%, so why you are surprised that the natives of Paleolithic Europe are not present 5,000yrs+ after the R1b1b2-Eurasid invasion

Maciamo
06-10-09, 18:03
It is likely that most Europeans descend from the Paleolithic hunter-gatherers (Cro-Magnon) through maternal lineage. R1b did replace most of the older paternal lineages, probably through war (ancient people were much more ruthless than today), and by achieving a high status with the new mixed society. Indo-European men would have monopolised the titles of local tribal chiefs/kings, giving them more opportunity to reproduce (by having many wives, which was common among Bronze-age people), and to progressively replace a great deal of the indigenous paternal lineages.

But it seems clear from anthropological features that a substantial amount of Paleolithic DNA survives in modern Europeans.