J1 and J2

Wilhelm

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Location
Spain
Ethnic group
Celtiberians
Y-DNA haplogroup
R1b-S26
mtDNA haplogroup
H1
I've been reading here in Eupedia, about the spread and origins of European haplogroups , and you say of J1 :
"The Muslim conquest of the Middle East, North Africa, and to a lower extent also to Spain and Sicily, spread J1 far beyond Arabia, creating a new Arabic world."

But, Spain has a very low level of J1, comparable to those of Sweden, Norway , Netherlands, Iceland, Ireland, France, etc..


And then you say about J2 :
"In Europe, J2 reaches its highest frequency in Greece (especially in Crete, Peloponese and Thrace), southern and central Italy, southern France, and southern Spain."

But, Andalusia (Southern Spain) has only about 1.1% of J, a level comparable to Poles, Estonians, etc, very low
Andalusians :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_by_ethnic_groups
 
I've been reading here in Eupedia, about the spread and origins of European haplogroups , and you say of J1 :
"The Muslim conquest of the Middle East, North Africa, and to a lower extent also to Spain and Sicily, spread J1 far beyond Arabia, creating a new Arabic world."

But, Spain has a very low level of J1, comparable to those of Sweden, Norway , Netherlands, Iceland, Ireland, France, etc..


And then you say about J2 :
"In Europe, J2 reaches its highest frequency in Greece (especially in Crete, Peloponese and Thrace), southern and central Italy, southern France, and southern Spain."

But, Andalusia (Southern Spain) has only about 1.1% of J, a level comparable to Poles, Estonians, etc, very low
Andalusians :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_by_ethnic_groups

Absolutely right. Looking at Iberia as a whole, J1 and J2 is quite low. In Portugal, J1 and J2 totals 11% and 4% in Spain. By comparison, Germany is at 4.5% and Austria at 12%. Italy and Greece have, by far, the highest levels of J1 and J2 in the E.U.

This should not be surprising in that Iberians are heavily Paleolithic, particularly towards the western end of the Peninsula.
 
Haplogroup J is low in Spain overall (about 4%), but relatively high by European standard in Andalusia (about 14%) and Valencia (10%). These figures are based on the largest study ever conducted for Iberia (by Flores et al.)

The study gives 18% of J in Cadiz, 15.5% in Malaga, 14% in Huelva, and 11% in Sevilla and Cordoba.

Don't trust Wikipedia for Y-DNA results. It's often based on a single minor study, or even partial ones that do not cover all haplogroups.
 
Haplogroup J is low in Spain overall (about 4%), but relatively high by European standard in Andalusia (about 14%) and Valencia (10%). These figures are based on the largest study ever conducted for Iberia (by Flores et al.)

The study gives 18% of J in Cadiz, 15.5% in Malaga, 14% in Huelva, and 11% in Sevilla and Cordoba.

Don't trust Wikipedia for Y-DNA results. It's often based on a single minor study, or even partial ones that do not cover all haplogroups.

The samples of this study are ridiculous :

22 people for Huelva. 28 for Cadiz. 26 for Malaga.

As you can see in that Table, the bigger the sample is , the less are the J levels.
If you see Seville has the highest sample with 155, and the J2 is about 5.2%

Considering from Seville to Huelva and Cadiz there are LESS than 100 km of distance,
How is possible that J multiplies so much in such a few distance ? The answer is the size of the Sampling
 
The samples of this study are ridiculous :

22 people for Huelva. 28 for Cadiz. 26 for Malaga.

As you can see in that Table, the bigger the sample is , the less are the J levels.
If you see Seville has the highest sample with 155, and the J2 is about 5.2%

Considering from Seville to Huelva and Cadiz there are LESS than 100 km of distance,
How is possible that J multiplies so much in such a few distance ? The answer is the size of the Sampling

I agree, the samples a far too low. Methodologically very poor.
 
Answer to an older post. Email from a friend couple of months ago who did research on Muhammads families. J2

The Arabic speaking people who went to the meditereanean are mostly J2 from eastern mediteranean and some J1 from Yemen area or Ghassanids christians descent.

Many of Prophet Muhammads descendants are J2. The Royal Jordanian family are J2 and so are Rabats King ( Morroco) some families from Yemen who are of Muhammads descendants ( They arrived 400 years ago ) tested and it was J2.



Muhammad cant be J1 because he was never originally from southern Arabian Peninsula he is Arab Mustaribah ( Arabised Arab ) from the north , from Abraham Ur of Chaldea and migrated towards the Hijaz areas.



J1 are mostly found in Yemen 80%, Some bedoins in the north, Ghassanids Christian families of Lebanon , Syria, Palestine and Jordan and Causacus area where its at 75%



Qahtanites and Ghassanids ( Christians Arabs from Marib Yemen now in Lebnan, Syria. Jordan and Falastine ) are mostly J1. Many Christians families in south lebanon tested and got J1 results. Many posted their results on Facebook.



These test are done by real people. Its also possible for Ghassanids to have J2 as some were migrants from north and settled with the Pre Islamic Saba people.



National Geo has more extensive studies
 
Well, I still don't understand why it says J1 is important in Spain, when clearly it has a very low level, the same level as in Northern Europe
If someone cares to explain me, Im intrigued (y)
 
Well, I still don't understand why it says J1 is important in Spain, when clearly it has a very low level, the same level as in Northern Europe
If someone cares to explain me, Im intrigued (y)

The statement you refer to is obviously incorrect. There is, unfortunately, a lot of garbage material published these days. All credible genetic studies clearly show that J1 and J2 is low in Spain and all of Iberia. Finito!
 
Well, I still don't understand why it says J1 is important in Spain, when clearly it has a very low level, the same level as in Northern Europe
If someone cares to explain me, Im intrigued (y)

J1 reaches 3 to 4% of the population in Andalusia and Valencia. I have edited the page on European Haplogroups indicating "southern Spain" instead of "Spain", as J1 is indeed almost inexistent in the rest of Spain (except Galicia).
 
I have seen in the table, the J1 of Spain has changed from 0 to 1
 
I have seen in the table, the J1 of Spain has changed from 0 to 1

Yes, I have revised the number from various sources. The J1 column was added after the percentages were calculated for other haplogroups, and I visibly forgot to change it for Spain.
 
Yes, I have revised the number from various sources. The J1 column was added after the percentages were calculated for other haplogroups, and I visibly forgot to change it for Spain.

I dont feel that is correct!. If we are talking about countries as a whole then we are not talking about regions at all!. So then if Austria has a 12% J1 on average, I easily suppose and infere there should be some austrian regions with much higher percentages of J1, even higher than 20% or so!. Why arent you talking about them, but you talk about southern spanish regions with lower percentages instead?. Are you trying to imply something I dont get?
 
J1 reaches 3 to 4% of the population in Andalusia and Valencia. I have edited the page on European Haplogroups indicating "southern Spain" instead of "Spain", as J1 is indeed almost inexistent in the rest of Spain (except Galicia).

I dont feel that is correct!. If we are talking about countries as a whole then we are not talking about regions at all!. So then if Austria has a 12% J1 on average, I easily suppose and infere there should be some austrian regions with much higher percentages of J1, even higher than 20% or so!. Why arent you talking about them, but you talk about southern spanish regions with lower percentages instead?. Are you trying to imply something about spaniards I dont get?
 
Yes, that's true. I think is only in south spain were J1 is found (and very low !!)
But Spain as a whole, I don't know
 
I dont feel that is correct!. If we are talking about countries as a whole then we are not talking about regions at all!. So then if Austria has a 12% J1 on average, I easily suppose and infere there should be some austrian regions with much higher percentages of J1, even higher than 20% or so!. Why arent you talking about them, but you talk about southern spanish regions with lower percentages instead?. Are you trying to imply something about spaniards I dont get?

Excellent point. Time for clarification...
 
Yes, that's true. I think is only in south spain were J1 is found (and very low !!)
But Spain as a whole, I don't know

J1 is very low throughout Spain, lower than many other Western European countries.
 
J1 is very low throughout Spain, lower than many other Western European countries.

Yes, right. Thats the reason why I cant understand why anyone should be pointing out such negiglible figure under the label of "southern Spain" (It really isnt: its only in SOME southern regions, not in ALL southern regions), and not doing the samething in other countries with some regions with much higher J1 percentages.

In short: Why is so important to remark this un-remarkable fact only in the case of Spain, and not in the case of countries with remarkable J1 percentages?. Is there a compulsive need to always try to link Spain to anything that sounds to arabs and the middle east?

Just an innocent question, nothing else than that.... :innocent:
 
Yes, right. Thats the reason why I cant understand why anyone should be pointing out such negiglible figure under the label of "southern Spain" (It really isnt: its only in SOME southern regions, not in ALL southern regions), and not doing the samething in other countries with some regions with much higher J1 percentages.

In short: Why is so important to remark this un-remarkable fact only in the case of Spain, and not in the case of countries with remarkable J1 percentages?. Is there a compulsive need to always try to link Spain to anything that sounds to arabs and the middle east?

Just an innocent question, nothing else than that.... :innocent:


I think any reasonably informed person knows the answer...:wink:
 
I think any reasonably informed person knows the answer...:wink:

Moreover if we consider that genetics results go constantly and stubbornly against the preconceptions and prejudices of racist people with an agenda trying to always link spaniards to arabs or moors. :LOL:
 

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