Wilhelm
Regular Member
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 56
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- 0
- Location
- Spain
- Ethnic group
- Celtiberians
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b-S26
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H1
I've discussed with many people about Iberian genetics, and they always refer me to this rubbish study :
http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S0002929708005922
wich says that North African ancestry is 10.6% and Sephardi Jewish is 19.8%
My conclusions are as follows :
1. According to all historians, the Muslims (Moors, Berbers, etc) were always a minority, about 1% in the first 400 years, and 5% in the last 400
The Jewish peak population was of 3% (Netherlands was bout 4%, just in case..:innocent
And, as we all know, more than half of them were expelled.
So, according to this demographical statitics, the numbers don't add up : where the hell does this 20% jewish come from ??
Where the hell does this 10% North African comes from ?
2. According to most widely Haplogroup studies of both Y-DNA and mtDNA done in Iberia, the levels of Haplogroup E (North African & Near Eastern) and J2(wich comes from Greeks and Phoenicians ) are comparable to those of other European countries, and are about 6% for E1b1b and 4% of J2 (J1 is even lower) .
The J1 is the typically Semitic haplogroup, and it is very low (0.5%?), insignificant, and the same as in all Europe.
Again, this is typical in Europe, even lower than average
3. Additionally, the data seems to contradict well stablished History. Asturias is the area were "Reconquista" started. Asturias was one of the few places not conquered by Muslims.
Thus, Asturias should show the least Northern-African genetic heritage. On the other hand, Andalucia, where Moors and Jews remained the longest, should be the regions with highest Northern-African and Jewish heritage, and they show one of the lowest in all Iberia.
4. Most widely , accurate and serious studies done in Iberia say the following :
"In fact, a European wide study including Spaniards states: No significant correlation is apparent between North African admixture and geography. Genetic exchanges across the Mediterranean Sea, and especially in its western-most part where the geographic distance between continents is smallest (Spain), seem to have been limited or very limited, establishing the North African contribution at 2.5/3.4%.[24]"
"A wide ranging study (published 2007) using 6,501 unrelated Y-chromosome samples from 81 populations found that: "Considering both these E-M78 sub-haplogroups (E-V12, E-V22, E-V65) and the E-M81 haplogroup, the contribution of northern African lineages to the entire male gene pool of Iberia is 5.6%."[41]
"DNA analysis shows that the Spanish are most closely related to other populations of central and western Europe, such as the Portuguese, the Italians, the Irish, the British and to a slightly lesser extent to the French, the Germans, and the Swiss.[23][24][25][26]
A 2007 European-wide study including Spanish Basques and Valencian Spaniards, found Iberian populations to cluster the furthest from other continental groups, implying that Iberia holds the most ancient European ancestry. In this study, the most prominent genetic stratification in Europe was found to run from the north to the south-east, while another important axis of differentiation runs east-west across the continent. It also found, despite the differences, that all Europeans are closely related.[27]"
What is your opinion ?
http://www.cell.com/AJHG/retrieve/pii/S0002929708005922
wich says that North African ancestry is 10.6% and Sephardi Jewish is 19.8%
My conclusions are as follows :
1. According to all historians, the Muslims (Moors, Berbers, etc) were always a minority, about 1% in the first 400 years, and 5% in the last 400
The Jewish peak population was of 3% (Netherlands was bout 4%, just in case..:innocent
And, as we all know, more than half of them were expelled.
So, according to this demographical statitics, the numbers don't add up : where the hell does this 20% jewish come from ??
Where the hell does this 10% North African comes from ?
2. According to most widely Haplogroup studies of both Y-DNA and mtDNA done in Iberia, the levels of Haplogroup E (North African & Near Eastern) and J2(wich comes from Greeks and Phoenicians ) are comparable to those of other European countries, and are about 6% for E1b1b and 4% of J2 (J1 is even lower) .
The J1 is the typically Semitic haplogroup, and it is very low (0.5%?), insignificant, and the same as in all Europe.
Again, this is typical in Europe, even lower than average
3. Additionally, the data seems to contradict well stablished History. Asturias is the area were "Reconquista" started. Asturias was one of the few places not conquered by Muslims.
Thus, Asturias should show the least Northern-African genetic heritage. On the other hand, Andalucia, where Moors and Jews remained the longest, should be the regions with highest Northern-African and Jewish heritage, and they show one of the lowest in all Iberia.
4. Most widely , accurate and serious studies done in Iberia say the following :
"In fact, a European wide study including Spaniards states: No significant correlation is apparent between North African admixture and geography. Genetic exchanges across the Mediterranean Sea, and especially in its western-most part where the geographic distance between continents is smallest (Spain), seem to have been limited or very limited, establishing the North African contribution at 2.5/3.4%.[24]"
"A wide ranging study (published 2007) using 6,501 unrelated Y-chromosome samples from 81 populations found that: "Considering both these E-M78 sub-haplogroups (E-V12, E-V22, E-V65) and the E-M81 haplogroup, the contribution of northern African lineages to the entire male gene pool of Iberia is 5.6%."[41]
"DNA analysis shows that the Spanish are most closely related to other populations of central and western Europe, such as the Portuguese, the Italians, the Irish, the British and to a slightly lesser extent to the French, the Germans, and the Swiss.[23][24][25][26]
A 2007 European-wide study including Spanish Basques and Valencian Spaniards, found Iberian populations to cluster the furthest from other continental groups, implying that Iberia holds the most ancient European ancestry. In this study, the most prominent genetic stratification in Europe was found to run from the north to the south-east, while another important axis of differentiation runs east-west across the continent. It also found, despite the differences, that all Europeans are closely related.[27]"
What is your opinion ?