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rms2
12-12-09, 07:33
Recently two men with ancestry in old Bohemia in the Czech Republic have turned out to be L21+: Dvorak and Goblirsch.

Dvorak knows his ancestor came from Bohemia but is not sure of the town. Goblirsch's ancestor came from old Zemschen, which is modern Třemešné.

rms2
12-12-09, 19:57
Recently two men with ancestry in old Bohemia in the Czech Republic have turned out to be L21+: Dvorak and Goblirsch.

Dvorak knows his ancestor came from Bohemia but is not sure of the town. Goblirsch's ancestor came from old Zemschen, which is modern Třemešné.

I wanted to add that the Czech Republic is a drastically under tested area, with only 510 men tested to 12 markers or more in FTDNA's Ancestral Origins database, and certainly very few of them SNP tested.

Compare that to the over 51,000 men of British Isles ancestry in Ancestral Origins.

Maciamo
13-12-09, 14:27
Would you happen to know if the Dvorak tested is related to the famous classical composer ?

rms2
13-12-09, 18:48
Would you happen to know if the Dvorak tested is related to the famous classical composer ?

He could be, but I don't think he knows. His most distant y-dna ancestor is Phillip Dvorak, who was born about 1800 somewhere in Bohemia (he is unsure of the exact city, town or village).

If there is a genealogy of Antonin Dvorak available, perhaps a connection could be made, especially if a known y-dna descendant or relative of the famous composer were availble for dna testing.

Joro
24-12-09, 16:04
Interesting how high the R1b is in Czech Republic,35% according to last research
'Y-chromosomal evidence of the cultural diffusion of agriculture in southeast Europe'

Actually it ain't especially surprising but it is by far the greatest percentage found in Slavic-speaking countries.

LeBrok
24-12-09, 21:56
Before 500AD this region was populated by Celtic tribes. Obviously Czech Slavs did a poor job killing them. :D It showes now too, Czechs are very peacful folks.

rms2
26-12-09, 03:24
Before 500AD this region was populated by Celtic tribes. Obviously Czech Slavs did a poor job killing them. :D It showes now too, Czechs are very peacful folks.

I don't think there is any evidence the Slavic-speaking people who settled in what is now the Czech Republic wiped out anybody on a large scale or even tried to. If they had tried that, perhaps they would have run into considerable resistance and would have been less successful in spreading their language.

Besides, not all the inhabitants of old Bohemia are ethnic Czechs. Many are Germans. Dvorak is an ethnic Czech surname, it is true, but Goblirsch is a Bavarian surname.

rms2
26-12-09, 03:26
Interesting how high the R1b is in Czech Republic,35% according to last research
'Y-chromosomal evidence of the cultural diffusion of agriculture in southeast Europe'

Actually it ain't especially surprising but it is by far the greatest percentage found in Slavic-speaking countries.

We also have one L21+ with ancestry in Croatia. That's pretty good, because there are only about 46 men of Croatian descent in FTDNA's Ancestral Origins database, and not all of them have been SNP tested.

Maciamo
26-12-09, 13:43
We also have one L21+ with ancestry in Croatia. That's pretty good, because there are only about 46 men of Croatian descent in FTDNA's Ancestral Origins database, and not all of them have been SNP tested.

The wide distribution of L21+ in Europe makes me believe that L21 arose a bit before the Indo-Europeans moved to Central and Western Europe. This would make it a pan Italo-Celto-Germanic haplogroup.

rms2
27-12-09, 00:53
The wide distribution of L21+ in Europe makes me believe that L21 arose a bit before the Indo-Europeans moved to Central and Western Europe. This would make it a pan Italo-Celto-Germanic haplogroup.

That would explain a lot, yes.

MOESAN
03-07-12, 17:18
Czech people is settled in a crossroad of great importance in european History, and surely this corner of the world knew a lot of go and return during centuries: even if genetic and populational crossing did not take place everytime on the first "meetings" there is no surprise if they show some influences of different origins, geographically and ethnically - I remember a survey (about cystic fibrosis I think) showing 3 important mutations: one very common in the celtic lands, one in scandinavian countries and one in slavic countries: and do you guess what? the Czech people present the celtic and the slavic ones -