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Nasturtium
23-12-09, 01:12
for 23andme customers:

**I'd post the URL but Eupedia won't let me :angry:

It looks like it's $195 only if you are not a 23andme customer.

23andme has me as a J1a* mtdna
deCODEme has J

23andme put's me with the Orcadians with global similiarity
deCODEme puts me as French. When I match percentages, I share most with French, Icelander's, and Orcadians.

My ethnicity is Welsh/German/Irish/British on my mother's side
Father is somewhat unknown, thought to be French, and possibly Native American. 23andme shows no Asian ancestry for me. DeCODEme gives me a sliver on my chromosomes and X.

Health is comparable but I think 23andme has more and is more user friendly. deCODEme does some cool stuff with downloading PDF's and shows you your chromosomes. 23andme's forum is better attended, but that may change as more people join into deCODEme.

Maciamo
23-12-09, 12:11
Here is the link to the free upload on deCODEme for 23andMe customers :
http://www.decodeme.com/data-upload

I tried it a few days ago. It's interesting, but I personally prefer the way 23andMe is presented.

In the Health section I find it annoying to have to agree to the terms and take a pretty useless survey (at least for young people who aren't likely to have had any of the diseases listed yet) before viewing each condition's results. Oddly enough, deCODEme gives me a low risk for 3 out of 4 conditions for which I had an elevated risk in 23andMe's clinical results.

I am disappointed that either company doesn't give more European populations with which to compare ancestry. Orcadians and Sardinians may be interesting for their isolation, but it would have been much more useful with at least 10 more regional populations.

Nasturtium, I wouldn't read too much in the global similarity. If you are of Welsh/German/Irish/British ancestry, as none of these population is tested, you can't know on which side you have inherited more. Closest to Orcadian doesn't mean much as they are of mixed Norwegian and ancient Scottish ancestry. I am closest to the French, the Icelandic, but it's inevitable as they have no sample population in between France and Scandinavia. I am pretty sure that if they had had Denmark or the Netherlands or West Germany, these would have been my closest matches. Then what does the French sample represent ? Someone from Brittany, Champagne, Berry, Auvergne, Provence ? These are all completely different ethnic groups. France has more regional genetic diversity than the whole of Scandinavia + northern Germany and the Netherlands combined.

DeCODEme gives a small percentage of Asian and African admixture to all Europeans, while 23andMe doesn't (only a bit of Asian for Finns or Ukrainians). I first thought that deCODEme's analysis was more detailed, until I realised that East Asians (e.g. Japanese) also have a few per cents of European and African admixture. It is meaningless for a Japanese person, as the country has not had any immigration for the last 2500 years, and it was from Korea. In other words, if there is any segment with European or African similarity, it is purely coincidental or dates back from the height of the Ice Age (but then we are all East African or Middle Eastern, so it is pointless and misleading not to give 100% Asian ancestry).

I was also dissatisfied that deCODEme does not give haplogroup deep subclades. I also don't like their subgroup numbers that do not match any nomenclature. The SNP are not even indicated with the subclade, so we have no idea what that represents. That should be one of the most basic feature in a DNA test.

Otherwise it's not so different from 23andMe.

Nasturtium
23-12-09, 16:58
I wish I could give you the link!:angry: There was a post under the paternal line concerning haplogroup I, labeled "Original human Europeans". The person asked if haplogroup I originated in Europe to which I posted a link to your list of haplogroups. You indicated it may have originated in Europe, decending from IJ...Cro Magnons...etc. The subsequent answers indicated that asserting haplogroup I originated in Europe is racist, that it's Asian like all haplogroups in Europe...

I researched it somewhat, and most references indicate haplogroup decended from IJ in Asia Minor, before that IJK in Africa. I personally don't know if haplogroup I originated in Europe or not, clearly is highly associated with Europe, but what is racist about exploring that possibility? Personally, I am offended by the assertion that a haplogroup that originates in Europe is in it's nature, racist, but I'd like more input before I open my mouth and stick my foot into it. Thanks

LeBrok
23-12-09, 21:11
Personally, I am offended by the assertion that a haplogroup that originates in Europe is in it's nature, racist, but I'd like more input before I open my mouth and stick my foot into it. Thanks

Who told you that talking about races or haplogroups is racist?
I'd say the text or conversation has to convey negative emotions, like hatred or humiliation of other races, or demand more rights for one race, to be racist. Pure information, data, science is never racist. The message, the intent, the emotions can be.

Marianne
24-12-09, 02:34
Who told you that talking about races or haplogroups is racist?
I'd say the text or conversation has to convey negative emotions, like hatred or humiliation of other races, or demand more rights for one race, to be racist. Pure information, data, science is never racist. The message, the intent, the emotions can be.


I agree.
As far as I know, racist is someone who thinks other races are inferior to his. There is nothing racist in talking about haplogroups and their origin. Nowadays we have reached a point where people are afraid to talk about non offensive things about races because people might call them racists... It is ridiculous...

Wilhelm
24-12-09, 02:45
This is ridiculous..why it is racist ? :confused2:

Cambrius (The Red)
24-12-09, 04:55
Will wonders never cease? Was it some Afrocentrist clown who was playing the racist card?

Maciamo
24-12-09, 11:53
I wish I could give you the link!:angry: There was a post under the paternal line concerning haplogroup I, labeled "Original human Europeans". The person asked if haplogroup I originated in Europe to which I posted a link to your list of haplogroups. You indicated it may have originated in Europe, decending from IJ...Cro Magnons...etc. The subsequent answers indicated that asserting haplogroup I originated in Europe is racist, that it's Asian like all haplogroups in Europe...

I researched it somewhat, and most references indicate haplogroup decended from IJ in Asia Minor, before that IJK in Africa. I personally don't know if haplogroup I originated in Europe or not, clearly is highly associated with Europe, but what is racist about exploring that possibility? Personally, I am offended by the assertion that a haplogroup that originates in Europe is in it's nature, racist, but I'd like more input before I open my mouth and stick my foot into it. Thanks

Technically haplogroup I could have originated in the Near East just as well as in Europe. What is known about the age of haplogroups from the scientific calculations is that when modern humans first moved from the Middle East to Europe (archaeologically proven to be around 40,000 years ago), haplogroup I and J didn't exist; it was still the parent haplogroup IJ.

Did haplogroup I first appear among European Cro-Magnons or in their Middle-Eastern cousins and re-entered Europe through another wave of westward-going nomads, we still do not know. What we know is that haplogroup I is almost exclusively found in Europe today, bar a minor percentage in the Near East. So the likelihood that it arose in Europe, or that the whole tribe in which it arose moved to Europe is high.

But I agree with everybody here that it is ridiculous to call either supposition "racist". Science is about facts (such as DNA testing), analysis (sorting in haplogroups and comparing with archaeological evidence) and logical thinking (early Cro-Magnons couldn't have belonged to a haplogroup that didn't exist yet). Racism is just a personal feeling/attitude. Racism cannot prove anything.

PS : you will be able to post links from your next (tenth) post.

Nasturtium
24-12-09, 17:37
I'm glad I waited because I realize now saying something to this individual would not be helpful. From other posts he's made, he seems to have a chip on his shoulder regarding his ethnicity (N. African). It's like the Napolean complex, but instead of height it's fair skin, eyes, or hair. I've seen it more than once in the 23andme forum and fortunately have managed to keep my mouth shut...I think I'll let their words speak for themselves!

Nasturtium
25-01-10, 17:46
It appears the last day you have to upload your 23andme data to deCODEme is January 31th. I'm glad I did it. Although their forum is not particularly lively (yet) and the health traits don't offer anything new or exciting, it definately outdoes 23andme in exploring ancestry. They conflict and there's much grumbling about deCODEme's liberal assigning of African and Asian ancestry, but they allow you to adjust setting's on fragment size when comparing chromosomes with friends.