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View Full Version : DNA Tribes, is this a joke ?



Wilhelm
28-12-09, 19:53
well, i've been discussing with some guys who claimed that Spain was 18% north-african, that Italy was 27% levantine, that Celts (?) are 10% Basque, Portuguese 17% Basque , Greeks 28% Mesomopotanaim and other crap like that.
So I asked them their sources for such claims, and they showed me DNA Tribes here :
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2009-08-29.pdf

Is this for real ? Are they professional scientists ? It's hard to believe...They should be banned...:petrified:

Cambrius (The Red)
28-12-09, 20:21
well, i've been discussing with some guys who claimed that Spain was 18% north-african, that Italy was 27% levantine, that Celts (?) are 10% Basque, Portuguese 17% Basque , Greeks 28% Mesomopotanaim and other crap like that.
So I asked them their sources for such claims, and they showed me DNA Tribes here :
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2009-08-29.pdf

Is this for real ? Are they professional scientists ? It's hard to believe...They should be banned...:petrified:

They are certainly of-the-wall. I think I read something DNA Tribes wrote about Central, Northern Portuguese and Northern Spaniards being something like 38% Nordic, genetically... :confused2: IMO, a large number of the percentages they proffer are nuts but a few make sense.

^ lynx ^
28-12-09, 20:43
That was already posted by Maciamo in another thread. Hilarious stuff.

Figure 12: 6,1% of finnic contribution in Portugal and North-Spain... yeah right. :laughing:

Cambrius (The Red)
28-12-09, 22:26
That was already posted by Maciamo in another thread. Hilarious stuff.
Figure 12: 6,1% of finnic contribution in Portugal and North-Spain... yeah right. :laughing:

Oh, you don't know I'm part Sammi !? ... :laughing:

Wilhelm
28-12-09, 23:08
This finnic % I guess is probably based on the mtDNA V, but they are too stupid to interpret it correctly . Seems like some kid made it. And it is sad that so many people believe in this studies, which confirm stereotypes (Iberians north africans, Italians levants, etc)

Maciamo
28-12-09, 23:24
DNA Tribes does not have a reputation of a serious, scientific-minded company. I have read things on their websites that was pure fantasy, really ludicrous.

cordobesforever
15-02-10, 19:25
If he says the people of northern Spain or Portugal is 38% Nordic, is wrong.

Greetings.

Cambrius (The Red)
15-02-10, 19:33
Overall, Spain and Portugal are about 9-10% Nordic / Germanic. Frequencies in the north are a little higher. The Beleza (2005-2006), et al. Y-DNA study of Portugal has the Braga region at close to 18% and parts of Tras os Montes and Leiria at 14-15%. I have no idea where some of the DNA Tribes figures come from. Much of what they suggest seems quite wrong.

cordobesforever
15-02-10, 19:39
That reaffirms my statements ..

In that round between 20% or less is obvious ..

But with 38% exaggerate too ..

Cambria, you speak Spanish?

It is the first time you encounter a Portuguese in a forum.

weissmacht
08-01-12, 02:45
Does anyone know the referrence populations for the dnatribes Europa test? Like in the Celtic sub-region does it refer to just the native Celtic peoples of the British Isles or also to the Germanic settlers too?I have high matches for the Celtic region and Belgic(Low Countries) and the Norse regions too-so does it mean an Anlgo_celtic mixture? Or iare the matches in the Celtic region reffering to the Germanic settlers in the British Isles?Plus it says I too have some Finnish admixture though my entire family background is English and British.

Knovas
08-01-12, 15:46
Buf...according to what I read here the DNA Tribes test looks really bad. Some claims are pure nonsense, but this was posted a long time ago and perhaps they improved the analysis.

Doesn't matter, I don't plan to buy this service.

Cambrius (The Red)
08-01-12, 18:20
Most informed people realize that DNA Tribes is at least part fantasy and part exaggeration. Not worth spending time on this.

alais
16-03-12, 14:20
Most informed people realize that DNA Tribes is at least part fantasy and part exaggeration. Not worth spending time on this.

I agree, not spending time on this.

Riki
22-03-12, 18:48
Iberians are always seen as % of something.
Typical.

Pallantides
08-04-12, 15:37
When I tested myself with DNA tribes some years ago I came back a Canary Islander.

Knovas
08-04-12, 15:44
That deserves a huge LOL :laughing:

Pallantides
08-04-12, 17:29
On my Europa test I was closest to Portuguese 5563

I have done 23andMe and I have also sent my raw data to Eurogenes and Dodecad projects which all show that I'm fully North European, so it's obviously the DNAtribe results that were faulty.

Knovas
08-04-12, 21:12
Both Eurogenes and Dodecad are the best options to get an accurate idea. DNAtribes...what a joke xd

Thanks for sharing your experience, Pallantides ;)

wormhole
19-08-12, 00:17
Should I get genetic testing done on 23andme, FTDNA, Eurogenes, or DOCAD? Which one is the best?

nordicwarbler
26-03-13, 21:10
My father recently got his DNA Tribes results... but first some background information.

Our paternal line has been in the U.S. since at least the 1700's. We have a fairly Germanic surname, and my dad is at least 25% recent Irish import through his maternal side (he's even visited the family property in Ireland). We've estimated his Irish admixture at 40%. My dad is y-haplogroup I1 with maternal haplogroup H.

We were expecting a standard European mix result (like my mom's side of the family got with the same test). There's an even mix of blue and brown eyes in his extended group (big family) with a decent amount of green sprinkled in too. Most siblings and cousins have blonde or light brown hair-- with one aunt and one female cousin having an 'exotic beauty' look none of us could figure out.

Also we wanted a native North American tie because it would be cool since we've been here for so long... but the test showed zero for the North Amerindian tribes. Almost no Irish admixture showed up and barely any German showed up.

The number one result... drum roll please... Andean tribe (from the Andes Mountains-- the Incas). We have no idea how it got there. Depending on how the test works I have it between 19 to 60% native Andes admixture.

I guess now I'm NordicIncan Warrior. Get ready for an overload of Incan facts and figures and reports of how great of structure Miccu Piccu (spelling?) is because that's how I roll.

nordicwarbler
26-03-13, 21:16
Edit-- Correct spelling on that is Machu Picchu.

And I don't think this test is a joke really-- I think it gives the unvarnished truth without running it through filters which might make the customer feel more at ease with their results.

Jackson
27-03-13, 04:10
My father recently got his DNA Tribes results... but first some background information.

Our paternal line has been in the U.S. since at least the 1700's. We have a fairly Germanic surname, and my dad is at least 25% recent Irish import through his maternal side (he's even visited the family property in Ireland). We've estimated his Irish admixture at 40%. My dad is y-haplogroup I1 with maternal haplogroup H.

We were expecting a standard European mix result (like my mom's side of the family got with the same test). There's an even mix of blue and brown eyes in his extended group (big family) with a decent amount of green sprinkled in too. Most siblings and cousins have blonde or light brown hair-- with one aunt and one female cousin having an 'exotic beauty' look none of us could figure out.

Also we wanted a native North American tie because it would be cool since we've been here for so long... but the test showed zero for the North Amerindian tribes. Almost no Irish admixture showed up and barely any German showed up.

The number one result... drum roll please... Andean tribe (from the Andes Mountains-- the Incas). We have no idea how it got there. Depending on how the test works I have it between 19 to 60% native Andes admixture.

I guess now I'm NordicIncan Warrior. Get ready for an overload of Incan facts and figures and reports of how great of structure Miccu Piccu (spelling?) is because that's how I roll.

Have you or your dad tested at 23&me or FTDNA as well?

If so you should upload your results to GEDmatch and try the admixture calculators there (although i can recommend a couple). DNA tribes seems a bit dodgy on admixture for singular people. The only part of it that correlated with what everything else told me was the 'heat map' thing with the coloured dots. It guessed me equally as Belarusian or Irish, and more likely to be North Italian than English. So it was very inaccurate, and other people I've talked to have had the same thing.

It may be that DNA tribes is accurate for you, and other tests should confirm it if that is the case.

nordicwarbler
27-03-13, 06:35
Thanks for the input Jackson. I'd sent an email to DNA Tribes to clear up some of the questions and they responded (the same day even) that my dad's admixture is most likely 25% Native American. It could in theory be zero or up to 50%, but their most likely estimate matched mine after I got the calculator out (I was at 24% for my most solid number).

I'm probably going to save my nickels and not go for a different autosomal testing company. I'm guessing DNA Tribes is the most accurate test on the market, albiet one that doesn't pull any punches. If it's there, they report it.

Jackson
27-03-13, 13:30
Thanks for the input Jackson. I'd sent an email to DNA Tribes to clear up some of the questions and they responded (the same day even) that the admixture is most likely 25% Native American. It could in theory be zero or up to 50%, but their most likely estimate matched mine after I got the calculator out (I was at 24% for my most solid number).

I'm probably going to save my nickels and not go for another autosomal. I'm guessing this is the most accurate test on the market, albiet one that doesn't pull any punches. If it's there, they report it.

They may be right, but from my (and many other peoples) experiences it is one of the least accurate on the market. I'm not saying they are outright wrong but you should check elsewhere to confirm it IMO. There's free 3rd party tools out there that are more accurate than DNA tribes.

Other tools will report it if it is there as well, except they report it accurately. You might find out that you are 1/4 native American after-all, but at least then it has been corroborated by another test.

nordicwarbler
29-03-13, 03:57
What's ironic about my genome is that with my admixture (Irish, Norse and Incan among others)... you'd think that maybe I would tan easily and have better than average endurance due to the thin mountain air found in Peru and Chile. Increased red blood cell levels and all.

Instead I have the tanning capabilites of an Irishman, the bubbly personality of a taciturn Norseman, and the sense of humor of a stoic Native. And lest you think I look the part of a bronzed South American, I very much resemble TechnoViking of internet meme fame-- in fact I could be mistaken for his larger, slightly less friendly looking older brother. If Keith Jardine (UFC fighter) and I were sitting on a park bench, you might think you were looking at a set of twins. And no, I'm not joking.

Regarding those increased endurance levels-- whenever I ran wind sprints in grade school or later for wrestling practice, I usually vomitted immediately afterward... sometimes so forcefully it went right through the nose. And no, I'm not joking.

So much for the stamina thing. But luckily I have the body hair of a North German enabling me to save some money on heating costs during the cold winter months-- at least I have that part of my admixture working for me. :)

Kardu
29-03-13, 20:00
I agree with Jackson, you should definitely try 23andme (only 99$ now) or FTDNA and then send your data to Prof. McDonald as well as upload your data on Gedmatch etc.

I've got some strange results from DNATribes myself :) Closest matches along with understandable Abkhazian, Adyghe or Armenian were Hungarians, Romanians and Bergamo Italy..

nordicwarbler
01-04-13, 13:30
I appreciate the comments, and I may take another test in the future... but at this point I'm more interested in furthering my connection my Andean admixture. I'd like to find my specific tribe if that's possible.

I have been able to find an area in Argentina where some of the people do resemble some of my extended family members, which is pretty cool.

Anthro-inclined
01-04-13, 16:32
I appreciate the comments, and I may take another test in the future... but at this point I'm more interested in furthering my connection my Andean admixture. I'd like to find my specific tribe if that's possible.

I have been able to find an area in Argentina where some of the people do resemble some of my extended family members, which is pretty cool.
So how did this site know exactly you were Incan, that is such a precise claim that it has to be suspicious. I dont know much about autosomal DNA or trying to group people, but I remember that Larry David got a test done on a talk show and the test said he was 50 percent Native American. This was obviously wrong, as most Indigenious people dont carry this much admixture because of intermixing, and I mean its Larry David. I guess my point is NW, do you really think this is a truthful test, I mean people on here are getting back the most ridiculous results.

nordicwarbler
01-04-13, 23:00
So how did this site know exactly you were Incan, that is such a precise claim that it has to be suspicious. I dont know much about autosomal DNA or trying to group people, but I remember that Larry David got a test done on a talk show and the test said he was 50 percent Native American. This was obviously wrong, as most Indigenious people dont carry this much admixture because of intermixing, and I mean its Larry David. I guess my point is NW, do you really think this is a truthful test, I mean people on here are getting back the most ridiculous results.

That's my reading of the test-- the Andean admixture is much, much higher for this category than the others. This test can get pretty specific, here are the Native American regions they test for:

Mayan
Central American
Amazonian
Andean
Gran Chaco
Patagonian
Ojibwa
North Amerindian
Athabaskan
Mexican
Salishan
Artic

For the Andean region they include this description-- "Peoples of the Andean Mountains of South America, including the territories of the historical Inca Empire." They include a color coordinated map for each category and their Andean Region corresponds almost perfectly to the ancient Incan Empire.

Interestingly my dad tested zero percent for both Amazonian and North Amerindian regions, and .01 for Athabaskan and Patagonian regions.

nordicquarreler
01-07-13, 06:05
My father recently got his DNA Tribes results... but first some background information.

Our paternal line has been in the U.S. since at least the 1700's. We have a fairly Germanic surname, and my dad is at least 25% recent Irish import through his maternal side (he's even visited the family property in Ireland). We've estimated his Irish admixture at 40%. My dad is y-haplogroup I1 with maternal haplogroup H.

We were expecting a standard European mix result (like my mom's side of the family got with the same test). There's an even mix of blue and brown eyes in his extended group (big family) with a decent amount of green sprinkled in too. Most siblings and cousins have blonde or light brown hair-- with one aunt and one female cousin having an 'exotic beauty' look none of us could figure out.

Also we wanted a native North American tie because it would be cool since we've been here for so long... but the test showed zero for the North Amerindian tribes. Almost no Irish admixture showed up and barely any German showed up.

The number one result... drum roll please... Andean tribe (from the Andes Mountains-- the Incas). We have no idea how it got there. Depending on how the test works I have it between 19 to 60% native Andes admixture.

I guess now I'm NordicIncan Warrior. Get ready for an overload of Incan facts and figures and reports of how great of structure Miccu Piccu (spelling?) is because that's how I roll.

UPDATE

Received father's results from 23 and Me. Very different from DNA Tribes.

99.6% European genetic material.

No Asian, Native American, or African admixtures.

16% of DNA can be traced directly to British Isles/Ireland.

nordicquarreler
01-07-13, 06:10
I view this process as a journey so I don't regret my DNA Tribes experience. I've learned much about the Incan culture and am fascinated by their incredible feats of stone transport and stone carving. I do think some of my father's distant cousins settled in Peru and Argentina and that's how DNA Tribes picked up these areas.

But for tracing genetic history, I think 23 and Me is far more accurate than DNA Tribes.

Templar
01-07-13, 18:08
UPDATE

Received father's results from 23 and Me. Very different from DNA Tribes.

99.6% European genetic material.

No Asian, Native American, or African admixtures.

16% of DNA can be traced directly to British Isles/Ireland.

Wow it is amazing how different the results are from the two tests. I wonder if it would be possible to sue DNA tribes, hmm...

Btw Nordic, any other details about the test? Could they figure out if you were more Anglo-Saxon or Scandinavian (I know they are practically the same but maybe they can pick up some differences).

nordicquarreler
03-07-13, 04:57
23 and Me has pretty thorough group assignments.

The European contribution looks like this:

81.8% Northern European
1.6% Southern European
.6% Eastern European
15.6% Non-specific European
.4% Unassigned

Each geographical segment is then further explained:
ie. the Northern European looks like...
16% British and Irish
1.4% French and German
64.5% Non-specific Northern European

I think the huge non-specific number is due to the fact that my paternal line has been in the Americas since at least the 1700's. (More mixing over here than in Europe).

The solid Irish contribution should stem back to a maternal great grandfather that sailed to America as a youth.

The bummer is that no further y-SNP testing was performed so I'm in the same spot I was in before.

FTDNA is now supposed to test for 10,000 SNP's so that's the logical step for any SNP hunter.

Rudy228
17-07-13, 02:50
DNA Tribes is the last organization that gave me a report using my FTDNA results. While I can't vouch for their testing capability, their analysis of the data was right on target and aligned with Family Tree's report. Moreover, since I had also tested with Genographic 2.0, I had three reports in hand that were in agreement. To further shore up the information I have, I've run my FTDNA and Geno 2 results through Dodecad, Interpretome, Eurogenes as well and aside from a few minute differences, the output from all six organizations is the same. Since I am curious I ran my wife's FTDNA data through DNA Tribes and her report squared with FTdna and the output I got from Dodecad, Eurogenes, and Interpretome. I think that unless someone can put the model / algorithm mechanics up and clearly show the flaws, they are not qualified to say that a particular firm is producing flawed results.

Cambrius (The Red)
17-07-13, 04:32
Never thought much of DNA Tribes. Maybe their methodology has improved recently.

zanipolo
17-07-13, 08:25
DNA Tribes is the last organization that gave me a report using my FTDNA results. While I can't vouch for their testing capability, their analysis of the data was right on target and aligned with Family Tree's report. Moreover, since I had also tested with Genographic 2.0, I had three reports in hand that were in agreement. To further shore up the information I have, I've run my FTDNA and Geno 2 results through Dodecad, Interpretome, Eurogenes as well and aside from a few minute differences, the output from all six organizations is the same. Since I am curious I ran my wife's FTDNA data through DNA Tribes and her report squared with FTdna and the output I got from Dodecad, Eurogenes, and Interpretome. I think that unless someone can put the model / algorithm mechanics up and clearly show the flaws, they are not qualified to say that a particular firm is producing flawed results.

I have done the DNAtribes and initially I did not agree with them......more because they had limited naming system for the regions. But I found they seemed to have been more accurate than what I thought. I just need to adjust their naming and see where it fits with the neighbours of who they named.

I recently did Interpretome and found all same results as :
- DougM test ...that I am 100% european ( although they call it CEU )

- plotting,............surrounded by North_Italian, Orcadian and some French ........same as most gedmatch ( except missing some finnish/estonian )

- PRORES ( i think that's whats it s called ) had me only sitting with finns, swedes and norwegians ) ......my maternal ancestors noted by GenBank, FTDNA and others has me with a 16th century match ....with either a Finn, estonian or swede )...so ...I am unsure what value this test was.


Never done Geno 2.0 ............but I might try 23andme

regards

jpm
16-05-14, 18:19
The message entitled "DNA Tribes, is this a joke?" is in poor taste and shows a sad lack of understanding of DNA analyses. In my case, I've had analysis done with DNA Tribes, Family Tree DNA's Population Finder and their myOrigins product (which are totally different), and I've done all the analyses with the multitude of calculators at GEDMatch.

If you're going to call one of them a "joke" then you might as well say that about them all, because they're all doing similar things. It's all based on statistics. In DNA Tribes case, however, they give the novice too much information with little explanation. But, at least they give you some information, FTDNA give you almost nothing but a a few overly general "heatmaps." D

T tells you upfront that tribal similarity and relationships does not denote direct ancestry, just that these are the populations in their database that are statistically shown to be correlated with your markers. But, it's still up to you to triangulate the information with genealogical and ancestral data. Admittedly, they do give you too much information, including a long list of populations in which your statistical relationship is null (i,e. zero similarity).

But, give them a break, and read their instructions carefully. They're not saying that these are your ancestors (genetics is too complicated for such a simple statement). This is emerging science and all the companies are breaking new ground moving forward. I'd recommend taking what they tell you, and adding what you and your family know, and have some fun with it as you try to make some sense of it all. It's a process, not a diagnosis like a medical test.

Sile
16-05-14, 20:19
The message entitled "DNA Tribes, is this a joke?" is in poor taste and shows a sad lack of understanding of DNA analyses. In my case, I've had analysis done with DNA Tribes, Family Tree DNA's Population Finder and their myOrigins product (which are totally different), and I've done all the analyses with the multitude of calculators at GEDMatch.

If you're going to call one of them a "joke" then you might as well say that about them all, because they're all doing similar things. It's all based on statistics. In DNA Tribes case, however, they give the novice too much information with little explanation. But, at least they give you some information, FTDNA give you almost nothing but a a few overly general "heatmaps." D

T tells you upfront that tribal similarity and relationships does not denote direct ancestry, just that these are the populations in their database that are statistically shown to be correlated with your markers. But, it's still up to you to triangulate the information with genealogical and ancestral data. Admittedly, they do give you too much information, including a long list of populations in which your statistical relationship is null (i,e. zero similarity).

But, give them a break, and read their instructions carefully. They're not saying that these are your ancestors (genetics is too complicated for such a simple statement). This is emerging science and all the companies are breaking new ground moving forward. I'd recommend taking what they tell you, and adding what you and your family know, and have some fun with it as you try to make some sense of it all. It's a process, not a diagnosis like a medical test.

Interpretome is the most accurate for me , others all follow slightly behind
http://esquilax.stanford.edu/


I have no issue with DT , as you say, one needs to read it thourghly

nordicwarrior
05-12-19, 23:38
This is years later... but if anyone is interested in this subject, I may have an explanation of these "wacky" DNA Tribe results. And surprisingly I think each testing agency was accurate in their own way. Please allow me to elaborate.

My father's side of the family has been in the United States since the Revolutionary War, in fact two of my paternal great, great, great, etc. grandfathers fought against the British in the American Revolution (specifically in the Pennsylvania Militia simply because there was no United States Military yet) the older of the two fought as a Sergeant. Another paternal grandfather fought for the United States during the War of 1812 and he actually died on the way home from this war (cause is not listed in the census... disease? injury? accident?-- we don't know).

So as you can see we have been here in the United States for a lengthy period of time, and these paternal and maternal family lineages all seem to tie back to heavily Germanic origins (using surname information-- except for a maternal grandfather from Ireland). Old family photographs show Germanic or Nordic looking individuals.

So how does the South American aspect from DNA Tribes come into play? My theory is that after WWII, we know that a chunk of Germans resettled in various parts of South America--an "interesting" branch of history that I won't address in this thread-- anyway my thinking is that some of these post WWII "genetically German outcroppings" look at the DNA level pretty much like my Germanic family that left Northern Europe a few hundred years earlier.

The computer only reports exactly what it sees. The raw data is shaped by historical context. Any other ideas out there?