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Maciamo
23-01-10, 13:17
MtDNA haplogroups U3 and X2 were identified in a new study (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.21257/abstract) of Tarim Basin inhabitants in the Taklamakan desert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taklamakan_Desert) (Chinese Turkestan, aka Xinjiang).

Haplogroup U3 is common all around the Black Sea, which made me think that it was one of the main mt-haplogroups associated with Y-haplogroup R1b1b2. R1b1b2 has the highest genetic diversity in northern Anatolia and the Caucasus. My theory is that R1b migrated to the North Caucasus and the Pontic steppe circa 4500 BCE, and the resulting merger with local R1a steppe people gave birth to Proto-Indo-European culture.

Haplogroup X2 has long been a mystery due to its amazingly widespread distribution over all Europe, Russia, Central Asia, Siberia and as far as North America. Its only major peak of frequency is around the Caucasus, indicating that at least one/some subclade originated in that region (probably not the North American X2a). The close contact between steppe people and the Caucasus would have instilled X2 in Proto-Indo-European speakers.

The discovery of U3 and X2 in the Tarim Basin, where R1b1b and R1a1a make up roughly half of the male lineages, confirm the likelihood of a Indo-European link with these two haplogroups. The famous Tarim mummies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies) proved the presence of faired hair Caucasians in this part of Central Asia at least 3800 years ago, during the Indo-European expansion.

Other studies (http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/ancientdna.shtml) had already found mt-haplogroups H, T, U2e and U4 among the Iron Age population of Xinjiang. All of them are still frequent in the Pontic-Caspian region nowadays. Haplogroup U2 was found in the 30,000 year-old Kostenki skeleton (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25572) from the middle Volga. Most U2 individuals are now Indian. U2 is actually the only major "European" mt-haplogroup in the Indian subcontinent, along with W (and only traces of H and T). Both U2 and W are much more common in and around European Russia than the rest of Europe nowadays.

Haplogroup H and T being so common all over Europe and the Middle East today, it is difficult to estimate how much of it is of Indo-European origin. H was indubitably found among Palaeolithic Europeans, Russians and Near Easterners. Only a detailed analysis of subclades can shed more light on the problem. So far I would say that H2a1, H5a, H7 and H8 seem to be the best candidates for an Indo-European origin (Caucasus-Anatolia, so mirroring R1b1b more than R1a1a).

UPDATE:

Here is a summary of mtDNA haplogroups that were probably part of the Indo-European migrations during the Bronze Age.

R1a1a correlates best with mt-haplogroups: H1b, H1c, H2a1, H6, H7, K1b1b, K1c, K2b, T1a1a1, T2a1b1, T2b2, T2b4, U2e, U4, U5, and some W subclades (W3, W4, W5, W6). Minor mt-haplogroups also include C4a, C5, H27 and V7a.


R1b1b correlate best withmt-haplogroups: H5a, H8, H15, I1a1, J1b1a, K1a3, K2a6, U5 and some V subclades (like V15). Minor mt-haplogroups also include U3 and X2.


Some H1 and T2 subclades might also be associated with both R1a and R1b.

Maciamo
08-02-10, 12:40
The Y-DNA and mtdna of Cres islanders (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/02/mtdna-of-cres-islanders.html) in Croatia and the Pasiegos (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25639) in Cantabria (Spain) further confirms my hypothesis about mtDNA I, U2, U3, U4 and W being linked to steppe haplogroups R1a and R1b. I might also add U5b and V.

Cres islanders were found to have an unusually high frequency of mtDNA U2e (20%) and W (12.5%), two haplogroups found in Central Asia, Pakistan and North-West India, and is associated with regions with a high frequency of R1a with a moderate amount of R1b.

I do not have the Y-DNA data for Cres, but this extensive study of Croatian Y-DNA and mtDNA (http://www.cmj.hr/2005/46/4/16100752.pdf) has data for the neighbouring island of Krk (no, there is no vowel missing ;-)). The samples in Krk, representing western Croatia, have the highest frequency of R1a (35.5%) and R1b (16.5%) nationwide. Krk has the particularity of having an startlingly high percentage of mtDNA I (11.5%) and W (7.5%), but also some U4 (3%) and U2 (1.5%). Better still, haplogroup A, of Siberian or East Asian origin, has been detected in Krk too. It is difficult to see how hg A could have got to Croatia if not through the Pontic steppe.


The Pasiegos of Cantabria are another isolated community whose DNA can enlighten us on the prehistory of Europe. A special study was dedicated to them by Maca-Meyer et al. (http://grupos.unican.es/acanto/aep/BolPas/Ann-Hum-Genet.pdf) and found a surprising pocket of hg R1a (18%, against 2% for Spain nationwide), but also of mtDNA I (6%), U3 (1.5%) and U4 (2.5%). There are also remarkably high frequencies of V (20.7%), U5 (16%) and T3 (7.3%), all common in north-east Europe.

V and U5 are also relatively common in Spain (5% and 5.5%), but not in such proportions. It is possible that both haplogroups were already in Spain during the Paleolithic, but that new people brought an additional layer of them later. Besides Spanish U5 is typically U5a, not the eastern U5b found in 3.7% of Pasiegos. It is undeniable that haplogroup U5 is more frequent in north-east Europe than Spain. It peaks in Finland (18%) and Estonia (16%), but is also high in Russia (12%) and Ukraine (11%).

Combined with a strong presence of R1a, this points at a direct migration from Russia/Ukraine to Cantabria. Other Cantabrians have a similarly high frequency of haplogroup V (21.5%) and U (22%), including U2 (2.5%), U3 (2.5%), U4 (4.5%) and U5 (11.5%). This proportion of U subclades is strongly reminiscent of southern Russia. The other Cantabrians have 8% of R1a (still very high for western Europe) and 58% of R1b.

Maciamo
08-02-10, 19:42
The Bashkirs of the Volga-Ural region are interesting to study because they live where horses were first domesticate and the war chariot invented.

On the Y-chromosome side, the Bashkirs have 73% of R1 (R1a1a + R1b1b1 + R1b1b2) and 25% of Mongoloid haplogroups (C3, N, O). In other words, if we exclude the later Mongoloid admixture, the Y-DNA is almost 100% R1a and R1b, with just a little bit of I, G2a, E1b1b, J2 and T.

They have 34% of Mongoloid mtDNA (A, C, D, F1, G, M7, M8a, N9a, Y). Applying the same process to mtDNA would give a quite representative sample of ancient Indo-European haplogroups from the north-eastern steppe. The proportion is the following (I multiplied by 3/2 to get rid of the Mongoloid admixture) :

- H : 33%
- V : 3%
- J : 9%
- T : 4.5%
- U : 38.25% (U4 = 22.5% ; U5 = 11% ; U2 = 3.5%)
- K : 3.75%
- I : 0.75%
- W : 0.75%
- N1a : 3%
- M1 : 2.25%

The Middle Eastern haplogroups are N1a, M1, J, as well as a small percentage of U1 and U7 comprised within U. What is notable is the absence of hg X and U3, probably due to the distance from the Caucasus, or just due to the sampling bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias).

Maciamo
22-02-10, 11:24
More ancient mtDNA from Central Asia (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/02/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-in-bronze-age.html) has been tested, ranging from 7000 to 1500 years ago.

In the Tarim Basin, 4000-year old remains belonged to both East Asian (C, D, F, G, M7, Z) and European haplogroups (H, K, U2e, U4, U5, W).

Interestingly, haplogroup U5a was found in Mongolia and southern Siberia (peri-Baikal region), some specimen as early as 7000 years ago, i.e. slightly before the presumed Indo-European expansion (following the domestication of the horse in the Volga-Ural region circa 6000 years ago).

Haplogroups H5a, H6, HV, I, K, T1, T3, T4, U2, U4, and U5a1 were found in the modern Xiongnu (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/05/more-on-prehistoric-south-siberians.html) people around Lake Baikal, besides North-East Asian haplogroups C, F1b, G2a, N9a, and Z. This much greater diversity of European lineages confirms that bigger scale migrations took place from the Pontic-Caspian steppe to the Baikal region after 6000 years ago.

European haplogroups from other sites in ancient Siberia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia include HV, H, I, J1, K, T, U1, U2, U4, U5 and W. The presence of J1 and U1, usually associated with the Middle East, is moderately surprising. It is rare enough to invalidate a Middle-Eastern origin of the Indo-Europeans, but suggests that the Indo-Europeans were indeed neighbours and have taken Middle-Eastern wives occasionally.

The Y-DNA of the men tested above was constantly R1a1.


What's interesting here is the absence of R1b and of mtDNA U3 and X, which I have identified as the maternal equivalent of R1b. R1b now makes up about 20% of the Uighur male lineages, and U3 and X2 were both found in modern inhabitants of the Tarim Basin. It reinforces the evidence that R1b came along with U3 and X2. The question is when ? If 4,000-year-old Tarim mummies were all R1a1, it means that fair hair and tartan-pattern clothes, both associated with the Indo-Europeans, came from the R1a1 branch of the Indo-European rather than the southern R1b branch.

Hansas
05-06-10, 23:26
.......
The Pasiegos of Cantabria are another isolated community whose DNA can enlighten us on the prehistory of Europe. A special study was dedicated to them by <.....> and found a surprising pocket of hg R1a (18%, against 2% for Spain nationwide), but also of mtDNA I (6%), U3 (1.5%) and U4 (2.5%). There are also remarkably high frequencies of V (20.7%), U5 (16%) and T3 (7.3%), all common in north-east Europe.

hi,
very intresting thing, that the word "pasiegos" has very similar words by sound and writting in Lithuanian - "pasagos". It means horseshoes. In Lithuania we have dominating R1a and N, and we know that ancestors liked riding horses :good_job:

Wilhelm
05-06-10, 23:44
hi,
very intresting thing, that the word "pasiegos" has very similar words by sound and writting in Lithuanian - "pasagos". It means horseshoes. In Lithuania we have dominating R1a and N, and we know that ancestors liked riding horses :good_job:
yes, actually the people of Pasiegos are genetically connected with
North-Eastern Europeans :

"Congruent with this second hypothesis is a study on MHC class II polymorphisms
that closely relate Pasiegos to Danes, Poles
and Germans rather than to non-Pasiego Cantabrians"

(SĀ“anchez-Velasco et al. 1999, 2003).

" Besides Spanish U5 is typically U5a, not the eastern U5b found in 3.7% of Pasiegos. It is undeniable that haplogroup U5 is more frequent in north-east Europe than Spain. It peaks in Finland (18%) and Estonia (16%), but is also high in Russia (12%) and Ukraine (11%).

Combined with a strong presence of R1a, this points at a direct migration from Russia/Ukraine to Cantabria. Other Cantabrians have a similarly high frequency of haplogroup V (21.5%) and U (22%), including U2 (2.5%), U3 (2.5%), U4 (4.5%) and U5 (11.5%). This proportion of U subclades is strongly reminiscent of southern Russia. The other Cantabrians have 8% of R1a (still very high for western Europe) and 58% of R1b. "

LeBrok
06-06-10, 04:05
Very interesting stuff guys.
Most likely the high R1a and maternal haplos are related to migration of goths through Europe. The started from Scandinavia, and in something like 150 years went through Lithuania, Prussia then through Slavs land, and settled on north banks of Black Sea. They lived there for other hundred or two years (don't remember really) and moved west during great migration of nations at end of Roman Empire. Even though they spoke some old Nordic language, they have ended up as genetic mixture of Germanic, Slavic, Baltic peoples. If I'm right we should have raised I2a in Pasiegos areas and possibly some historic notes about strong Visigoth center there.

My other theory was that people called Veneti/Venedi/Venethi traveled from Baltic sea and settled there. They were squeezed out by Slavic expansion. Interesting is what Hansas say about the name of Pasiegos, because the last known settlement of Veneti/Venedi was in Lithuania or Latvia. There was a village or town with this name in past, maybe it's still there.

willy
17-06-10, 22:39
More ancient mtDNA from Central Asia (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/02/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-in-bronze-age.html) has been tested, ranging from 7000 to 1500 years ago.

In the Tarim Basin, 4000-year old remains belonged to both East Asian (C, D, F, G, M7, Z) and European haplogroups (H, K, U2e, U4, U5, W).

Interestingly, haplogroup U5a was found in Mongolia and southern Siberia (peri-Baikal region), some specimen as early as 7000 years ago, i.e. slightly before the presumed Indo-European expansion (following the domestication of the horse in the Volga-Ural region circa 6000 years ago).

Haplogroups H5a, H6, HV, I, K, T1, T3, T4, U2, U4, and U5a1 were found in the modern Xiongnu (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/05/more-on-prehistoric-south-siberians.html) people around Lake Baikal, besides North-East Asian haplogroups C, F1b, G2a, N9a, and Z. This much greater diversity of European lineages confirms that bigger scale migrations took place from the Pontic-Caspian steppe to the Baikal region after 6000 years ago.

European haplogroups from other sites in ancient Siberia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia include HV, H, I, J1, K, T, U1, U2, U4, U5 and W. The presence of J1 and U1, usually associated with the Middle East, is moderately surprising. It is rare enough to invalidate a Middle-Eastern origin of the Indo-Europeans, but suggests that the Indo-Europeans were indeed neighbours and have taken Middle-Eastern wives occasionally.

The Y-DNA of the men tested above was constantly R1a1.


What's interesting here is the absence of R1b and of mtDNA U3 and X, which I have identified as the maternal equivalent of R1b. R1b now makes up about 20% of the Uighur male lineages, and U3 and X2 were both found in modern inhabitants of the Tarim Basin. It reinforces the evidence that R1b came along with U3 and X2. The question is when ? If 4,000-year-old Tarim mummies were all R1a1, it means that fair hair and tartan-pattern clothes, both associated with the Indo-Europeans, came from the R1a1 branch of the Indo-European rather than the southern R1b branch.

Do we have any DNA haplogroup from the Tarim mummies ? Do you have any scientific sources about ?
"R1b now makes up about 20% of the Uighur male lineages" what are the other haplogroups in the Uighur male lineage ?

"The presence of J1 and U1, usually associated with the Middle East, is moderately surprising. It is rare enough to invalidate a Middle-Eastern origin of the Indo-Europeans, but suggests that the Indo-Europeans were indeed neighbours and have taken Middle-Eastern wives occasionally." this is quite imaginative !

Maciamo
18-06-10, 10:06
Do we have any DNA haplogroup from the Tarim mummies ? Do you have any scientific sources about ?

At least one of them was H, but I don't know the results for the others. I don't know why they keep the results secret (just like for Tutankhamun, whose Y-DNA was tested but had to be guessed from a possibly false video from the Discovery Channel).


"R1b now makes up about 20% of the Uighur male lineages" what are the other haplogroups in the Uighur male lineage ?

R1a (about 20% too), East Asian haplogroups (C, N1, O3, Q) and 5 to 10% of Middle Eastern haplogroups (mostly J with some E and G). The Indo-European also carried G2a (according to my theory R1b and G2a interacted and mixed a lot around the Caucasus and Anatolia), and some J2 and E1b1b (inevitable if R1b originated in Anatolia).



"The presence of J1 and U1, usually associated with the Middle East, is moderately surprising. It is rare enough to invalidate a Middle-Eastern origin of the Indo-Europeans, but suggests that the Indo-Europeans were indeed neighbours and have taken Middle-Eastern wives occasionally." this is quite imaginative !

It's been common in all societies on earth to take wives among neighbouring populations. In primitive societies it was a way of maintaining peace. What is certain is that Middle-Eastern mtDNA is not overwhelming at all in the Eurasian steppe and northern Central Asia.

foryouandme
24-06-12, 22:52
Better still, haplogroup A, of Siberian or East Asian origin, has been detected in Krk too. It is difficult to see how hg A could have got to Croatia if not through the Pontic steppe.

Here's three possibilities:

1. The Silk Road
2. The Ottoman Empire
3. The Magyars

also haplogroup mtDNA F has been found in Hvar Island.



The Middle Eastern haplogroups are N1a, M1, J, as well as a small percentage of U1 and U7 comprised within U.

With all due respect, I wouldn't consider Haplogroup M as Middle Eastern. It's more of an South Asian, East Asian and Horn African Haplogroup.

Maciamo
25-04-13, 16:37
So far the study by Lee et al. (2012) (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.22074/abstract;jsessionid=564EDCA7323D8D3F65FC802763631F 40.d03t03) has the oldest sample of R1b in Europe, dating from circa 2500 BCE. The authors reported the site to belong to the Bell Beaker culture, but is is far more likely that it belonged to the contemporary Unetice culture, which started expanding in Southeast Germany at the time. The mtDNA haplogroups found at that site alongside Y-haplogroup R1b were U2e, U5a1, T1a, K1, I1 and W5a. Not only do these haplogroup match the typical Indo-European haplogroups mentioned above, they happen to correspond very closely to those of another Unetice site from Central Germany (Harz region), reported in Christina Adler's doctoral thesis (http://digital.library.adelaide.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/2440/73014/1/02whole.pdf) as belonging to I1, H7a, U*, U2, U5a1, U5a1a (2x), U5b, T1, T2 (2x), T2b, W and X. In contrast, German Bell Beaker sites so far only contained haplogroup H (H1, H3, H-CRS) and J.

Maciamo
13-10-13, 09:21
Let's have a look at the European mtDNA present in Northeast Asia today.

Based on all the mtDNA studies on the Japanese published to date (n=1723) the Japanese possess a small fraction of European haplogroups, including 1.33% of H, 0.12% of V, 0.06% of HV, 0.06% of U8 and 0.06% of W. Note that V, U8 and W are all typical of Northeast Europe, especially Uralic populations like Finland. Only V and W have been found among the Koreans.

The Mongolians, who also carry Y-haplogroups R1a and R1b at more than trace frequencies, have 2.58% of J, 2.33% of H, 1.29% of K, 0.78% of U4, 0.78% of U5b, 0.52% of H5, 0.52% of HV, 0.52% of T2, 0.26% of N1a, 0.26% of T1, 0.26% of U5a, 0.26% of other U (U1, U9) and 0.26% of W, but no haplogroup V.

The Buryats, Mongolians from Russia, possess of haplogroups H (6.8%), HV (1%), K (1.4%), U4 (1%) and U5 (2%), and traces (under 1%) of I, J1, T1, U1, U8, X2.

That is interesting in many ways. It suggests that the mt-haplogroups V and W preceded all other European haplogroups in Northeast Asia, as they are the only ones consistently found in Japan, Korea and Mongolia, at similar frequencies. That would suggest an old Uralo-Altaic link, perhaps dating from the expansion of Y-haplogroup N in North Asia.

Since the Indo-Europeans (R1a, R1b) were the only Europeans to settle in Mongolia, we can safely assume that they carried mt-haplogroups N1a, HV, H, V, K, J, T1, T2, U4, U5, and perhaps also V and W. J and K are particularly noteworthy since they both peak in Northeast Europe.

the eurasian
18-10-13, 02:40
Hey there Maciamo, it's me: the Eurasian, I was wondering if you could please post/email me on where you got your source of information about Koreans having small frequencies of mtDNA haplogroups V and W.

Maciamo
18-10-13, 07:53
Hey there Maciamo, it's me: the Eurasian, I was wondering if you could please post/email me on where you got your source of information about Koreans having small frequencies of mtDNA haplogroups V and W.

It's the total of all studies on Korean mtDNA so far. It is largely based on this study (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-005-0005-6) (it is not free though).

the eurasian
18-10-13, 08:12
Thank you Maciamo for replying to my message, I have one last question though: When you said largely based on this study, do you mean that the information about Koreans having small frequencies of mtDNA haplogroups V and W is in that study source?

Maciamo
28-12-13, 19:24
Keyser et al. (2009) (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00439-009-0683-0) tested the mtDNA of 26 individuals from kurgan burials in the Krasnoyarsk area in southern Siberia. The samples date from 1800 BCE to 100 CE, ranging from the Middle Bronze Age to the Late Iron Age.

The Bronze Age samples were are related to the Andronovo and included the mt-haplogroups H6, K2b, T1, T2a1b1, U2e, U4, U5a1 as well as the East Asian Z1. Three Y-DNA samples were tested and were found to belong to haplogroups C and R1a1 (2x).

The Iron Age samples belonged to the Scythian-related Tagar, Pazyryk, and Tashtyk cultures and included mt-haplogroups HV, H5, I4, T1 and T3 (3x) as well as the East Asian lineages C, F1b, G2a, and N9a. The Y-DNA samples from the Pazyryk and Tashtyk cultures each belonged to R1a1.

Maciamo
18-01-14, 00:45
I have re-analysed the raw mtDNA data of Central Asian populations from Quintana-Murci et al. (2004) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181978/). When the paper was published 10 years ago the mtDNA phylogeny was much more primitive than today, so I was able to assign deep subclades to many samples merely listed as H, J, K or T. This is an excellent way to confirm what lineages the R1a and R1b Indo-Europeans brought with them. Of course not all of the subclades listed are automatically Indo-European. This is only the case if they are also common in Europe (especially in northern Europe). Among the H subclades, I had already listed H2a1 and H6 as correlating with R1a, and H4, H5a, H6, H7, H8 correlating with R1b. On the other hand, H13 is almost certainly of Caucasian origin.

When available, I have listed the populations studied with their percentages of R1a and R1b to help determine which of the two IE branches is most likely associated with each mt-haplogroup.

I put a ? when only one mutation was available to determine the subclade (but no alternative existed in the current phylogeny).

As I had predicted recently, the Indo-Europeans did also carry H1 lineages. IMO, both Neolithic farmers and Mesolithic Europeans also had mtDNA H1, which is why there has been so many arguments about H1's origins.

Shugnan of Tajikistan (3% R1b, 30% R1a)

- H1b1
- H2a1
- H2a1f
- H5a4 (or H5r)
- J1b
- J1b1a1
- K1b1b
- K1c2
- T*

Kurds from Turkmenistan (about 30% R1b, 10% R1a)

- H27
- J1b
- J1d or J1c2m
- T* (2x)
- T2*
- T2b2 (2x)

Turkmen from Turkmenistan (about 40% R1b, 5% R1a)

- H1f
- H8a
- H13b (?)
- H15 (?)
- J*
- J1b1a1
- J1* or J1c (2x)
- T1a
- T2*
- T2b

Uzbeks from Uzbekistan (about 15% R1b and 25% R1a)

- H13b (?)
- J1* or J1c
- J1b1a1
- J1b4a

Kalash from Pakistan (0% R1b, 20% R1a)

- H2a1
- J1d
- J2b1a (4x)
- T2*

Hunza Burusho from Pakistan (0% R1b, 10% R1a)

- H5a4 (or H5e)
- J1b (2x)
- J1b1a1
- T1a
- T2b

Hazara from Pakistan (32% R1b, 0% R1a)

- H5a1 (or H5r)
- H6b

Pathans from Pakistan (0% R1b, 40% R1a)

- JT*
- J1b7
- J1d
- T1a8a
- T2c1
- T2e

Persians from central Iran (3% R1b, 20% R1a)

- H13b (?)
- H14a
- J1b (5x)
- J1b1a1 (2x)
- J1b7
- T
- T1a
- T2b
- T2b2
- T2c1

Mazandarians from northern Iran (0% R1b, 10% R1a)

- J1*
- J1b (2x)
- J1b5a
- J2a1 (?)
- T
- T1a
- T2b (2x)

Turks from Azerbaijan

- H2a1
- H13a2c
- H14a
- H22
- J1b (2x)
- J1b1a1
- T* (3x)
- T1a
- T2*
- T2c1
- V7a



UPDATE : In addition to H2a1, H5a, H6 and H8, there are high chances that the following haplogroups were part of the Indo-European migrations:

- H1b : the most common subclade of H1 in Russian along with H1c. H1b1 was found in Tajikistan.

- H15 : a rare subclade found in Scotland, Germany, Poland, Austria, northern Italy, Central Asia (Turkmenistan), Iran and northern India.

- H27 : found essentially in northern and central Europe, but apparently also in Turkmenistan.

- J1b1a : particularly common in western and central Europe, but also found in Russia, northern Anatolia, central Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Strong association with R1b.

- K1b1b : K1b1 clades are found throughout Europe. K1b1b is rare but has been found in Greece and Tajikistan.

- K1c2 : found in western and northern Europe, in the Maghreb and in Tajikistan.

- T1a : particularly common in northern, central and eastern Europe. It is also found in Iran and Pakistan (Pathans, Brahui, Hunza Burusho). Strong correlation with R1a.

- V7a : most common in central and north-eastern Europe, including Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and Russia. Strong correlation with R1a.


The following mt-haplogroups do not seem to have been spread by the Indo-Europeans.

- H13 found mostly around the Caucasus, Iran, Anatolia, and along the Mediterranean coasts of Europe. It is also especially common in Sardinia.

- H14 has mostly a Near Eastern distribution.

- H22 (H19 in Achilli et al. 2007) has been found in Tuscany, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Syria and Jordan, and is therefore also Near Eastern.

- J1b4 : has been found in Turkey and Uzbekistan, but is absent from Europe.

- J1d is found mostly in Arabia, Iraq, Iran and southern Pakistan. It is found at low frequency in Greece and Italy, but not beyond.

Maciamo
21-01-14, 12:35
I have found a V15 sample in Armenia. V15 is also found in the British Isles and Norway, and could have been one of the original lineages of R1b people.

Maciamo
21-01-14, 13:31
I have found another invaluable paper on Central Asian mtDNA by Irwin et al. (2010) (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00414-009-0406-z). It is behind a paywall but the supplementary data is accessible for free. They tested the mtDNA sequences of 1,575 individuals from Uzbekistan and neighbouring countries. Uzbek samples are further divided in five distinct geographic regions: Fergana, Karakalpakstan, Khorezm, Qashkadarya, and Tashkent. It is better than the Quintana-Murci paper because of its enormous sample size and because all subclades are already listed. I can therefore see in one glance all the potentially Indo-European mt-haplogroups and subclades found in Central Asia.

I have excluded subclades found only in Russia, as these could have come with the Slavs and modern Russians. I also omitted top level haplogroups (e.g. T2) as they aren't informative, except for hg H. Haplogroups with more than 10 samples are in bold.

- C4a1 (exclusively in Tajikistan)
- C4a2 (found among the Uzbeks, Turkmens and Kazakhs. Was also present in Neolithic Ukraine)
- C5 ((found among the Uzbeks, Tajiks and Kazakhs. Also found in Mesolithic Russia)
- C5a
- H1a (only one sample from Tashkent, Uzbekistan)
- H1b (found among the Uzbeks, Turkmens and Kazakhs).
- H1c (found among the Uzbeks, Turkmens and Kazakhs).
- H1f (only one sample from Afghanistan)
- H2a1
- H2a2a
- H5
- H6
- H6b
- H7a1
- H11a
- H11a1
- H11a2
- H15 (found especially among the Tajiks, but also among the Kyrgyz, Uzbeks and Kazakhs)
- H20
- HV0
- I1 (found among the Uzbeks and Kyrgyz)
- I1a (found among the Uzbeks and Turkmens)
- J1b
- J1b1a (found among the Turkmens, Uzbeks, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz)
- J1c (found among the Turkmens, Uzbeks, and Tajiks)
- J1c1 (found only among the Uzbeks)
- J2b1a
- K1a
- K1a1a (found among the Turkmens, Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz and Afghans)
- K1a4b
- K1b2
- K1c
- K2
- K2a
- T1a
- T2b
- T2b4 (found only in Uzbekistan)
- T2c (found in Kazakhstan and Turmenistan)
- T2e (found only in Uzbekistan)
- T2g (found in Kazakhstan and Tajikistan)
- U2e
- U2e1
- U3
- U3a
- U4
- U4a1
- U4a2a
- U4b1a1
- U4c1
- U5a1
- U5a1b1
- U5a2
- U5a2a
- U5b
- U5b1
- U5b1c
- U5b2a1
- U5b2a2
- U8a1
- W1e
- W3'4'5'6
- W4
- W6
- X2e1 (found only among the Uzbeks. Also found in Poland)

Maciamo
21-01-14, 17:57
Checking the data for haplogroup T from Pala et al. (2012) (http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297%2812%2900204-2), I managed to extend the range of observation beyond Central Asia.

- T1a has been found in China, all parts of Siberia, Pakistan, central and south India, and throughout the Near East.

- T2 has been found all over Central Asia, Pakistan, India, China and Siberia.
- T2b is also found everywhere except central and southern Pakistan, Kurdistan and Yemen.

Other T2 subclades are more elusive:

- T2a1b : found only in Kazakhstan, Iran, Turkey, Palestine and Yemen.
- T2c1 : found only in Kazakhstan, Iran, southern Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Palestine and the Arabian peninsula.
- T2e : found only in Uzbekistan, northern Pakistan, Iran, southern Iraq, Kuwait, the Levant and the Arabian peninsula.
- T2f : found only in Turkmenistan and among the Druzes of Lebanon.

According to the authors of the study, T2b, T2e and T2f are European, while T2a, T2c and T2d are Near Eastern. At present I am still unable to determine what T2 subclades are of Indo-European origin. There are undeniably subclades of T2b, T2e and T2f, but all of them were brought to Europe by Neolithic farmers. Therefore only deeper clades can differentiate those that were part of the Indo-European migrations.


UPDATE: after checking more data, I found that T2a1b1, T2b2, T2b4, T2b11 and T2b16 could all be linked to the R1a branch of the Indo-Europeans.

Power77
31-05-14, 05:42
Maciamo in my opinion you should make a thread about the original mtDNA haplogroups of R1* people.
My bet would be something like rare lineages such as X,I,W, or N1a/N1b.
All the mtDNA R descended haplos such as H,U,K,JT or V seem to have a better correlation with Y-DNA F*,IJ* or even G*(or H* for that matter) and were picked up by expanding PIE people relatively recently during their Bronze/Iron Age expansion throughout Central Asia, the Middle East, Anatolia and of course Europe.

Maciamo
01-01-15, 10:55
A new paper by Derenko et al. (Dec. 2014) (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/14/217) analyses the deep mtDNA subclades of modern Siberians, and notably the Altaians, who have strong links to the Indo-Europeans (high R1a and R1b). This kind of study is invaluable as it makes it possible to estimate what were the original maternal lineages of the Early Bronze Age Indo-Europeans without testing ancient DNA samples.

In total, Derenko and colleagues have tested 5568 Siberian samples divided in seven regions (!), although this study only looks into 166 new complete mitochondrial DNA sequences.

The haplogroups identified fit into two groups: European and West Asian, confirming that the Proto-Indo-Europeans emerged from the merger of indigenous Eastern European tribes (R1a) with another population from the Middle East (R1b) before expanding to Europe and Central/North Asia. However, several West Asian lineages would have entered the Steppe through the Balkans with Y-DNA G2a3a1 and J2b2. I have put together the Mesolithic and Neolithic lineages linked to R1a, so as to better distinguish from those brought over the Caucasus by R1b (and T1a1a ?).

European lineages (Mesolithic + Neolithic)

- H1
- H1a3b
- H1b1a
- H1b3
- H1g1
- H1h1
- H1ca
- H2a1a
- H7c1
- H11a1
- H11a2a2
- H20a
- H34
- K1b2
- K2a3
- N1a1a1a1a
- T1a1
- T1a1b
- T1a1d
- T2a1a1b
- U2e1b3
- U2e1i
- U4a
- U4a1
- U4a1d
- U4a2a
- U4b
- U4b1a4
- U4b1b1c
- U4b3a
- U4d2
- U4d2a
- U4d2b
- U5a1a1a
- U5a1a2a
- U5a1d2b
- U5a2a1
- U5a2b
- U5b1b1a
- U8a1a1b1
- W3a1d

West Asian lineages (probably linked to the Bronze Age diffusion of R1b)

- J1b1b1
- H8b1a
- H8b1b
- H15b

West Asian lineages (probably non-IE)

- J1d6a (correlates more with G2a and J2a)
- J2a2b
- J2a2c1
- HV1a1a (correlates more with J1 and T)
- HV12b1 (found only in Iran)
- HV13a (Caucasian ?)
- K1a3b (Caucasian ?)
- K1a17
- T2h (correlates more with G2a and J2a)
- U1a1
- U3b2c (correlates more with J1 and J2a)
- U7a2
- U7a3a1
- U7a4b
- X2e2a1

Unclear

- HV6 (correlates with both R1a and R1b, but probably linked to the original R1b)
- HV9 (correlates with both R1a and R1b, but probably linked to the original R1b)
- H2b
- H3g3 (closer affinity with R1b)
- H5a1 (correlates with both R1a and R1b)
- H6a1b (correlates with both R1a and R1b)
- H27a (correlates with both R1a and R1b)
- H35
- H49c (closer affinity with R1b)
- H97 (only found among Siberians ?)
- I4a1 (correlates with both R1a and R1b)
- J1c5 (closer affinity with R1b)
- J1c10a (closer affinity with R1b, but present in Neolithic Europe)
- K1a4 (closer affinity with R1b, but present in Neolithic Europe)
- K1a32 (closer affinity with R1b)
- K2a5 (closer affinity with R1b, but present in Neolithic Europe)
- N1a1b1a1
- T2g1a1 (correlates with both R1a and R1b)

Maciamo
01-01-15, 12:16
Maciamo in my opinion you should make a thread about the original mtDNA haplogroups of R1* people.
My bet would be something like rare lineages such as X,I,W, or N1a/N1b.
All the mtDNA R descended haplos such as H,U,K,JT or V seem to have a better correlation with Y-DNA F*,IJ* or even G*(or H* for that matter) and were picked up by expanding PIE people relatively recently during their Bronze/Iron Age expansion throughout Central Asia, the Middle East, Anatolia and of course Europe.

N1, I, W and X are basal Eurasian and linked primarily to Y-haplogroup G.

The Mal'ta boy from Siberia who was R* belonged to U*. R1a is strongly linked to U2, U4, U5 and U8a1, so R1* people also probably belonged essentially to U subclades, as well as the Siberian C4a. Other subclades listed on this page were assimilated from Neolithic farmers by R1a tribes, or from local South Asian and West Asian tribes by R1b people in the Late Palaeolithic to Early Neolithic.

epoch
01-01-15, 13:03
I think haplogroup HV0/V should be added to the European lineages. Gotland Pitted Ware remains Ajvide 29B and Ajvide 52A have been tested HV0. Since autosomal DNA of the Ajvide remains showed clearly that they were related to mesolithic HG's and Saami are half mtDNA V I think this is relevant. Allthough two other graves saw H/R (marker 16311C) which could indicate influx of farmer mtDNA.

http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/370/1660/20130373.figures-only

Aberdeen
01-01-15, 14:41
Happy New Year, Maciamo. Thank you for the link to that interesting paper. I notice that it only discusses mtDNA, so I assume the linkages to Y DNA you mention are based on other research.

I do have some concerns about the conclusions in that paper, since the authors are trying to determine the genetic makeup of ancient Altaic populations based solely on the mtDNA of the current Altaic population without taking into account the fact that Cossacks from Ukraine and Kazakhstan invaded the area on behalf of the Russian Tzar in the 1600s, killing and carrying off much of the indigenous population and settling the area in considerable numbers. It therefore seems likely that a majority of the still tiny population of the Altaic region are descended from people who only arrived in the area from eastern Europe and western Asia less than 500 years ago.

Maciamo
01-01-15, 17:26
I think haplogroup HV0/V should be added to the European lineages. Gotland Pitted Ware remains Ajvide 29B and Ajvide 52A have been tested HV0. Since autosomal DNA of the Ajvide remains showed clearly that they were related to mesolithic HG's and Saami are half mtDNA V I think this is relevant. Allthough two other graves saw H/R (marker 16311C) which could indicate influx of farmer mtDNA.

http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/370/1660/20130373.figures-only

If you are referring to the new Derenko study, there wasn't any HV0 or V among the deep mtDNA sequences tested. If you refer to other studies, V7a and V15 are already mentioned above. There aren't any other known V subclades associated with the Proto-Indo-Europeans. Never seen any IE HV0 either.

Maciamo
01-01-15, 17:28
Happy New Year, Maciamo. Thank you for the link to that interesting paper. I notice that it only discusses mtDNA, so I assume the linkages to Y DNA you mention are based on other research.

I do have some concerns about the conclusions in that paper, since the authors are trying to determine the genetic makeup of ancient Altaic populations based solely on the mtDNA of the current Altaic population without taking into account the fact that Cossacks from Ukraine and Kazakhstan invaded the area on behalf of the Russian Tzar in the 1600s, killing and carrying off much of the indigenous population and settling the area in considerable numbers. It therefore seems likely that a majority of the still tiny population of the Altaic region are descended from people who only arrived in the area from eastern Europe and western Asia less than 500 years ago.

The study investigates indigenous Siberian tribes, not European Russians or Cossacks. It is not limited to the Altai, but comprises many parts of Siberia.

Aberdeen
01-01-15, 18:13
The study investigates indigenous Siberian tribes, not European Russians or Cossacks. It is not limited to the Altai, but comprises many parts of Siberia.

The study does state that it is focused on the Altaic region, although similar concerns about admixture would apply to all parts of Siberia, with the date of conquest by steppe Cossacks acting on behalf of the Russian Tzar varying from the 1500s to the 1700s, depending on the region. I don't see anything in the paper that specifies that the samples were collected only from indigenous groups with an effort being made to avoid European admixture - can you point out to me where that's specified? I know that when it comes to European admixture among indigenous people here in Canada, it's difficult to avoid admixture when doing genetic studies, although that tends to be more of a problem with paternal rather than maternal lines.

If I want to know about the genetics of the population of a particular area for a previous time period, I'd rather have genetic information from old bones, where possible, particularly in a place like Siberia that has a small population that has been severely impacted by colonialism.

Maciamo
02-01-15, 10:23
The study does state that it is focused on the Altaic region, although similar concerns about admixture would apply to all parts of Siberia, with the date of conquest by steppe Cossacks acting on behalf of the Russian Tzar varying from the 1500s to the 1700s, depending on the region. I don't see anything in the paper that specifies that the samples were collected only from indigenous groups with an effort being made to avoid European admixture - can you point out to me where that's specified? I know that when it comes to European admixture among indigenous people here in Canada, it's difficult to avoid admixture when doing genetic studies, although that tends to be more of a problem with paternal rather than maternal lines.

If I want to know about the genetics of the population of a particular area for a previous time period, I'd rather have genetic information from old bones, where possible, particularly in a place like Siberia that has a small population that has been severely impacted by colonialism.

Did you read the paper and check the supplementary materials ? Additional file #2 shows the location of the samples. #4 gives the haplogroup for each sample with the ethnicity specified. Only 18 of them are Altaians. The Alatian haplogroups include many that look much more Middle Eastern than Russian, such as X2e2e (5 samples), H2b, H3g3 and K1a3b. Doubtful these are Slavic. Among what's left, everything could be Proto-Indo-European and correlates just as well with R1b as with R1a (H6a1b, HV9, I4a, K1a4, U4b1b1c) or better with R1b (J1b1b1a), or with nothing (H* and T1*).

epoch
02-01-15, 16:58
If you are referring to the new Derenko study, there wasn't any HV0 or V among the deep mtDNA sequences tested. If you refer to other studies, V7a and V15 are already mentioned above. There aren't any other known V subclades associated with the Proto-Indo-Europeans. Never seen any IE HV0 either.

Hm. I think I misread your post. Or even this entire thread. Let's blame it on new years eve. Of which I will give no details, mind you ;)

Angela
02-01-15, 17:37
I don't know if everyone has seen Dienekes take on the study. He must have had a moment after New Years.
http://www.dienekes.blogspot.com/2015/01/western-eurasian-mtdna-in-modern.html

Aberdeen
03-01-15, 06:20
Did you read the paper and check the supplementary materials ? Additional file #2 shows the location of the samples. #4 gives the haplogroup for each sample with the ethnicity specified. Only 18 of them are Altaians. The Alatian haplogroups include many that look much more Middle Eastern than Russian, such as X2e2e (5 samples), H2b, H3g3 and K1a3b. Doubtful these are Slavic. Among what's left, everything could be Proto-Indo-European and correlates just as well with R1b as with R1a (H6a1b, HV9, I4a, K1a4, U4b1b1c) or better with R1b (J1b1b1a), or with nothing (H* and T1*).

I read the paper, which seemed to be focused on the Altaic region but I now see from the supplementary information that in fact the samples were taken from various groups in various parts of Siberia. However, as I said, I'd have the same concerns about the effects of colonization on modern DNA from any part of Siberia. Although I suppose it probably affected Y DNA more than mtDNA. The event that might have brought a lot of European and West Asian mtDNA into many parts of southern Siberia during the last 1000 years is the "Mongol" expansion, which actually involved many different Siberian ethnic groups joining the Mongols in invading east Asia, west Asia and eastern Europe. The histories indicate that those who survived to return home often brought captives with them. I feel that in order to understand who was living in Siberia during the Bronze Age, we need Bronze Age DNA, given the small population and the major population turnovers that have occurred since then.

Do you have links to Y DNA stats for Siberia? I'm not seeing major links between the "European" and "west Asian" mtDNA lineages in Siberia and R1a and R1b, even though such links can in some cases be found elsewhere.

Power77
29-06-15, 02:38
I agree with Aberdeen when he says that most of these West Eurasian lineages found in modern tribal Siberians can be attributed to the Mongol Empire. However, I'm not saying Maciamo's wrong when he says that there might be Indo-European subclades among all these West Eurasian markers. I just happen to think that only a tiny minority of them can reasonnably be linked to the Indo-Europeans. The Caucasoid mtDNA makeup also seems unexpectedly diverse, for such Mongoloid populations as tribal Siberians, in a way that cannot be explained by Indo-European gene flow alone. Plus, most of these lineages are "Middle Easternish" as Maciamo pointed out, which is more consistent with Middle Easterners being brought to the region by the Mongols rather than with an actual Indo-European connection. The Caucasoid mtDNA frequency should have been lower( and should not have shown such diversity) if there was only an Indo-European source for it.

AtiharshG
28-06-17, 02:05
Are there any genetic sequences which are unique in every human body and can be identified easily ? :embarassed:

Rethel
28-06-17, 11:35
Idk if there is sense in searching for original IE mts, becasue
they were constantly changing. Even the oldest examples of
people like Maltaboy and Oleniostrovian are mixed, so logicaly
their mts were from the ouside of the tribe. And plus on early
stage were imported Caucasian mts. So, the original would be
mt of the first Indoeuropean, and becasue this is impossible to
known, it is hard to trying to named such entity like original IE
mts. The only thing which can be done, it is segregation mts
according to the place, culture and epoche.