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Neander
26-01-10, 03:50
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Qdr2w1PNnCU/SU_VPVmNvaI/AAAAAAAAAc0/MZDji4-vIA0/s400/king+otto+with+albanian+fustanella.gif

We find this cloth in two points of Europe:

1. Scotland, the only celts who bear it
2. Balkan, where it was used by whole albanian, then greeks, vlachs etc.

Where does it come from? Who inventioned this?

Another similarity between scots and albanians is gajde, a musical instrument.

http://www.novomilosevo.org.rs/photo/sl_gajde_b.jpg

Here is scot music with "gajde":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTAXn5o8Q4Q&feature=related

And here is albanian music with gajde:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGv_LEKgGew

Neander
26-01-10, 03:51
Still, another similarity: Scotland was called Alba and sometimes Albania.

Why these similarities?

Maciamo
26-01-10, 11:30
Some similarities can potentially go back a very long way. For example tartan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartan) clothes were found in the 3500 year-old Tarim mummies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies) of north-west China (of Indo-European origin). It is known from Roman accounts that the ancient Celts wore tartan clothes. Nowadays it found only in Scotland and is seen as something intrinsically Scottish. It's not. It was a pan-European and Central Asian phenomenon in the Bronze Age, but only survived in Scotland. Could be the same for the fustanella/kilt. After all Scottish kilts are always made of tartan - there must be a reason, like an ancient origin.

The Indo-European R1b people supposedly arrived in Albania around 2100 BCE, during the Maliq III culture (http://books.google.com/books?id=IJ2s9sQ9bGkC&lpg=PA11&ots=YIJQPjjPBJ&dq=maliq%20III%20culture&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q=maliq%20III%20culture&f=false). This is the period when the Bronze age starts and elite single graves, horses and the whole Indo-European package was introduced. This is late for south-east Europe. The Bronze Age reached Scotland almost exactly at the same period. Both could be offshoots from the Unetice culture from Central Europe. Who knows, perhaps this common source of IE people called themselves "Alba(n)" ?

Neander
26-01-10, 12:16
But kilt is not made of tartan among albanians and greeks (in Balkan).

Marianne
26-01-10, 15:07
http://en.wikivisual.com/images/2/21/Changing_the_Guard2.jpg

Here are Greek soldiers dressed with this traditional fustanella-kilt-skirt or however you want to call it, guarding the Greek Parliament. They are not supposed to talk or move (except for the routine where they change shifts, which has to be perfect) during their shift.

Only the tallest of the soldiers serving each year are selected for this position (strictly 190cm+, usually close to 2m) and they undergo a special training, that many fail.

Recently a bomb exploded 10m away from them (I think it made international news) but they didn't move at all!

Neander
18-02-10, 18:59
Just one warning:

Albanians was an exonim, which means white people, because the children are borned with white hair. The same tribe was called ocasionally as "Albanoi" or as "Parthini". The second term is clearly albanian word 'Bardh" that means "white", but in the ancient form.

It is the same name in two languages, Latin and illyrian-albanian.

^ lynx ^
18-02-10, 19:05
Nice thread Neander. I had no idea about the albanian gajde.

Cambrius (The Red)
18-02-10, 19:40
But kilt is not made of tartan among albanians and greeks (in Balkan).

Essentially, the tartan has been traditional in the Atlantic Facade for thousands of years. All the ancient Atlantic Celts wore some form of tartan, from Portugal to Central and Western France to Scotland., Some were plaid and others bore various Celtic designs.

Neander
18-02-10, 19:54
It is the same name in two languages, Latin and illyrian-albanian.But it doesnt explain why Scotland is called Alba. Maybe it si again the same name in two languages, Celtic and Albanian.

Lynx here is another song with gajde (this time you can see the executor):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y180lwazVQ&feature=related

Cambrius (The Red)
18-02-10, 20:32
But it doesnt explain why Scotland is called Alba. Maybe it si again the same name in two languages, Celtic and Albanian.
Lynx here is another song with gajde (this time you can see the executor):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y180lwazVQ&feature=related
Alba is an insular Celtic word. In Ireland the Gaelic word for Scotland is alban.

Cambrius (The Red)
18-02-10, 21:14
Information on Atlantic Celtic Kilts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilt

LeBrok
18-02-10, 21:36
Another similarity between scots and albanians is gajde, a musical instrument.

http://www.novomilosevo.org.rs/photo/sl_gajde_b.jpg

Here is scot music with "gajde":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTAXn5o8Q4Q&feature=related

And here is albanian music with gajde:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGv_LEKgGew

Actually this similarity is found in whole Europe. In Poland it's called "dudy". I just read an article of musical historian that states that this instrument was mentioned since second century bc in Greece then in Rome. It also says that it was used by some Roman Legions as marching music. Actually it could have gotten to Scotland with Roman Legions.
It was quite popular all over Europe in folk music since middle ages.

Same with skirts. Trousers as we know them gained popularity only in last few centuries. Before that pants were only used as undergarment and for horse riding. Other than that all peoples in Europe wore some sort of skirts, men and women.

Somehow all over the Europe people of mountains, the highlanders, are very conservative and traditional, or just mountains insulate them from new trends, well till recent times. Relics of ancient life style in Europe can be found mostly in highlands. It doesn't mean that highlanders in Albania and Scotland are related. It only means that similarities of European, universal, and main trends survived in both cultures.

As for the name? Could be a coincidence as both peoples are of white race.
Are their any other lingual similarities? If you can't find other linguistic connections, then Alba and Albania are coincidental, or mistakenly coined by Romans.

Neander
18-02-10, 22:06
Also I have read somewhere that England was called Albion. I don't remember the reference.

Here is a similarity between albanian and irish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCq3FGPAJTs

Neander
18-02-10, 22:27
Also the division in P-Que is present in three languages: Celtic, Italic and Albano-Romanian

Albanian and Romanian probably are of the same origin, since 2/3 of the romanian substratum are albanian or similar to albanian words. Also there are some facts that Thracians (including dacian tribe) with illyrians were within the same subgroup of peoples.

So, celtic was divided into Q and P languages, the same is for italic languages.

But it occur and in albanian and romanian.

F.ex. albanian "katër" "katra", in romanian "patru"

Another word is reversed: in latin Columbo, in albanian Pëllumb, and in romanian porumbelul, in this case latin is K, and romanian and albanian are P.

Neander
18-02-10, 22:38
Actually this similarity is found in whole Europe.
I don't think so. Actually "Dudy" must be of celtic origin, because there is e big similarity with scotish bagpipes, but albanian bagpipes together with greek and yougoslavic are very diferent from scotish ones. F.ex. Galitia in Western Ukraine must have been named after the Bastarnae celtic tribe who settled there.
There is not bagpipe among frances, basque, italian, germans etc.
Neither they have fustanella, or even if they have it is very diferent from scotish and albanian.

Cambrius (The Red)
18-02-10, 23:29
The bagpipes of the Atlantic Facade are generally different than found elsewhere. The largest pipes are from Scotland. In places like Brittany, Galicia, Asturias and Central and Northern Portugal there are several types. Some have as many as four "flutes" but there are versions with as few as one.

Bagpipes are found in many cultures but they may have originated in the Atlantic Facade, perhaps with the Tartessians (possibly the original Celts) of SW Iberia.

LeBrok
19-02-10, 00:00
Also the division in P-Que is present in three languages: Celtic, Italic and Albano-Romanian

Albanian and Romanian probably are of the same origin, since 2/3 of the romanian substratum are albanian or similar to albanian words. Also there are some facts that Thracians (including dacian tribe) with illyrians were within the same subgroup of peoples.

So, celtic was divided into Q and P languages, the same is for italic languages.

But it occur and in albanian and romanian.

F.ex. albanian "katër" "katra", in romanian "patru"

Another word is reversed: in latin Columbo, in albanian Pëllumb, and in romanian porumbelul, in this case latin is K, and romanian and albanian are P.

Similarities of Albanian and Romanian, might come from common history of Illyrian, Dacian, Thracian as Satem group of languages. Before Dacian got Romanized. Most likely these 3 were closely related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centum

LeBrok
19-02-10, 00:10
Here is a nice short writeup about bagpipes.
http://www.highlandnet.com/info/misc/pipes.html

http://www.cometoscotland.com/images/BagpipesinScotland.pdf
Lol, interesting, bagpipes were band in Scotland twice!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagpipes
Looks like it was the most popular instrument in Europe till recent. How it came to Europe is unclear not much history here, nothing about excavation of bagpipes. The oldest depictions and writings are from Greece and Roman Nero times.

LeBrok
19-02-10, 00:35
All above article and this one below show that most likely Romans introduced bagpipes to Scotland. Couldn't find anything saying that Scots new this instrument before.

"In Italy today, there is a most strange and staggering tradition among players of the Italian Bagpipe (a very small group indeed) that the Celtic tribes in England worshipped the bagpipe! The legend says that Caesar, during the conquest of Britain, in an effort to keep the Roman casualties to a minimum, decided to ambush the Celtic forces and frighten the forces of their mounted troops. He did this by gathering together all of the players of the UTRICULARIS and caused them to lay in concealment, and at the pre-arranged signal, all of the pipers played at once. The Celtic horses bolted, threw their riders and the Roman Army rushed in and annihilated the force. When the Britons understood the cause of their defeat, they immediately considered the bagpipe an instrument of divine nature with magical qualities. For this reason, they were lured by its sound to the point of idolizing and worshipping it to conquer its magic. After some time, the British copied the Roman instrument. This traditional tale was published in M. Gioiellis� �LE ZAMPOGNE DI GIULIO CASARE� in a magazine called �MONDO MOLISE�."

"Strong evidence seems to indicate that the Irish got the instrument from invading Anglo Norman armies. It is first mentioned in Ireland some fifty years afterwards. Among the Normans, it has the same sort of development as in England. France produced at least seven varieties of bagpipe. In common use for dancing and all festive occasions, and employed at church services and religious ceremonies, it became a fashionable instrument at the courts of both countries by the eleventh century.

The bagpipe in Scotland is probably as old as that found in England. Its playing must have been noted by those who tried breach Hadrian�s Wall in all their blue finery. It must have worked its way up by the time of the Normans who also had lands in Scotland. Certainly the bellows are to be of continental origin"


http://www.bagpipehistory.info/rome-ancient-world.shtml

^ lynx ^
19-02-10, 02:51
As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):

http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=2009032800_16_310907__Ourense-Portugal-recupera-gaita-metodo-gallego-Foxo

Greetings.

LeBrok
19-02-10, 03:27
I don't think so. Actually "Dudy" must be of celtic origin, because there is e big similarity with scotish bagpipes, but albanian bagpipes together with greek and yougoslavic are very diferent from scotish ones. .

Actually the Albanian name gajde, points into it's Celtic or roman origin, gaita. Could be vice verse but quite unlikely.

Name Dudy is purely Slavic. It means to blow air. Also means load sound but that could originate from the instrument name.
English name bagpipe is quite recent and might mean luck of long or continuous traditions with this instrument.

Cambrius (The Red)
19-02-10, 03:37
As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):

http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=2009032800_16_310907__Ourense-Portugal-recupera-gaita-metodo-gallego-Foxo

Greetings.

Gaitas are also played in the Beiras and the Serra da Estrela regions, but you find many more organized pipe bands in Minho, Douro and Tras-os-Montes.

Cambrius (The Red)
19-02-10, 03:38
As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):

http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=2009032800_16_310907__Ourense-Portugal-recupera-gaita-metodo-gallego-Foxo

Greetings.

Thanks for the article. :good_job:

LeBrok
19-02-10, 03:52
As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):
http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=2009032800_16_310907__Ourense-Portugal-recupera-gaita-metodo-gallego-Foxo
Greetings.
Damn, maybe they are related lol. Polish highlander from Galicia.
Only pants are different, but that's a recent invention.
http://zdjecia.polska.pl/katalog/galeria,Gorale,gid,259867,cid,9,view,short.htm?sh= 10

LeBrok
19-02-10, 05:36
But this is all the similarities,
music is different
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bawPacEf-Q&feature=related

dances too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kinKeuU5hEI&feature=related

Cambrius (The Red)
19-02-10, 06:42
Damn, maybe they are related lol. Polish highlander from Galicia.
Only pants are different, but that's a recent invention.
http://zdjecia.polska.pl/katalog/galeria,Gorale,gid,259867,cid,9,view,short.htm?sh= 10
I don't think so... :grin:

Neander
19-02-10, 18:50
Actually the Albanian name gajde, points into it's Celtic or roman origin, gaita. Could be vice verse but quite unlikely.

The origin of the name is not as the origin of one thing. F.ex. one nation can borrow any invention and creating his own word for that, and another nation can create invetion and borrow the word.

In albanian and yugoslavic languages is not any word for "linen", it is borrowed from turkish, but does that mean that all Balkan lacked linen before coming of turks who were probably more primitive then natives??

Neander
19-02-10, 18:53
Damn, maybe they are related lol. Polish highlander from Galicia.
Only pants are different, but that's a recent invention.
http://zdjecia.polska.pl/katalog/galeria,Gorale,gid,259867,cid,9,view,short.htm?sh= 10Gorales must be, of partly illyrian origin, since albanian words like "vatra" (fire) and, "magura" (stone place) are found in their language, and they are dinarics like other inhabitants of Carpathians and dinaric alps.

But now what we can say, is the Goraly gajde borrowed from celtic or it is native illyrian gajde?

Neander
19-02-10, 19:02
I have another idea:

1. celtics had tartan but they lacked fustanella.
2. Balkans had fustanella but they lacked tartan.
3. Scotish have both fustanella and tartan, and thier fustanellas are made of tartan.

I think celtic culture mixed with balkanic and created proto=scotish culture.

Cambrius (The Red)
19-02-10, 19:25
I have another idea:

1. celtics had tartan but they lacked fustanella.
2. Balkans had fustanella but they lacked tartan.
3. Scotish have both fustanella and tartan, and thier fustanellas are made of tartan.

I think celtic culture mixed with balkanic and created proto=scotish culture.

Read J. Koch's book, Tartessian: Celtic from the South-west. The theory that is quickly growing in acceptance is that Celticity originated in Southern Portugal and Southwest Spain and then spread North and East trough trade and migration. Later there was Celtic circulation back to Iberia and north.

The Scottish do have pleated kilts, but they are a different style than what is found in the Balkans.

LeBrok
19-02-10, 21:16
Gorales must be, of partly illyrian origin, since albanian words like "vatra" (fire) and, "magura" (stone place) are found in their language, and they are dinarics like other inhabitants of Carpathians and dinaric alps.

But now what we can say, is the Goraly gajde borrowed from celtic or it is native illyrian gajde?

I think they invented dudy. If you already have a flute, how difficult is to attached leather suck to it?
The oldest record of bagpipe is from middle east, then Greece and Rome. Do you think it came to Illyria from these countries or Albanians invented it? If the later, do you have a proof or just guessing?

What is the oldest record, artifact of gajde in Illyria? Pre Celtic?

magura, gura, gora is in all Slavic languages. What does that mean? Pre Illyrian?

Neander
19-02-10, 21:39
I think they invented dudy. If you already have a flute, how difficult is to attached leather suck to it?
The oldest record of bagpipe is from middle east, then Greece and Rome. Do you think it came to Illyria from these countries or Albanians invented it? If the later, do you have a proof or just guessing?

What is the oldest record, artifact of gajde in Illyria? Pre Celtic?

magura, gura, gora is in all Slavic languages. What does that mean? Pre Illyrian?Weel you have the right to think that they invented dudy.

But in the ancient times "they" were not "they". They became slavic after slavic invasion, just like south slavic people.

Here you can see "goraly trousers" which are mostly similar to albanian trousers:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Fotothek_df_ps_0006311_Fuhrwerke_%5E_Pferdefuhrwer ke_%5E_Kutschen_%5E_sonstige_Kutsche.jpg

And here albanian trousers:

http://dedgjoluli.org/attachments/Image/Ded_Gjo_Luli_me_Kolen_Deden.jpg


It has been proposed that some Goral words such as magura ("mountain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain)/hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill)") and vatra ("fireplace") may have an Illyrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_language) or Dacian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacian_language) origin, however, little is known about these now-extinct languages. Mazurzenie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazurzenie) may occur.


Substratum words of Vlach origin suggest that Gorals have been in contact with Balkan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan) peoples, through trade or cultural interactions. Some Vlachs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs) may even have settled in this area of the Carpathian Mountains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpathian_Mountains) between the 14th to 17th centuries, and then merged with the Goral population.

Add here the dinaric race,and you know what they were in ancient times.

And I don't care if "Gaide" or "Dudy", was invented in Albania, Romania, Dalmacia, or Goraly place, since while they were one race it is not important.

However, Gaide or Dudy is not any advanced technologial tool, therefore it must have been invented since the time when people have in disposition the leather and wood, also a good knife to produce that.

Neander
19-02-10, 21:45
Here is the definiton of VATËR (VATRA) in albanian vocabulary:

VATËR f. sh.
1. Vendi rrëzë oxhakut, pak si i thelluar, i shtruar
me rrasa guri, me pllaka etj., ku ndizet zjarri. Vatra
e zjarrit. Rri pranë vatrës. Mblidhemi rreth vatrës.
U ul në krye të vatrës.
2. Pjesa e poshtme e furrës, e farkës; e sobës etj.,
ku ndizen e digjen drutë, qymyri etj. Vatra e furrës
(e farkës).
3. Hapësirë fare e vogël, vend i ngushtë sa për të
ndezur zjarr; lehe, vulla. Një vatër vend. Kishte
mbjellë një vatër qepë.
4. fig. Shtëpia ku kemi lindur e jemi rritur, ku banon
familja a ku kanë jetuar të parët tanë brez pas
brezi; familja; kryes. sh. vendi ku kemi lindur e
jetojmë, vendlindja. Vatër e dashur (e shtrenjtë).
Vatra atërore (prindërore). Vatra e të parëve ( e
stërgjyshërve).Vëllezër të një vatre vëllezër që
kanë lindur e janë rritur në një shtëpi. Mik vatre
mik i afërt, mik i shtëpisë. Në çdo vatër. Mbeti pa
vatër. Njeri pa strehë e pa vatër. Më merr malli
për vatrën time. I ra fatkeqësia në vatër. Mbrojmë
vatrat tona. Lënë vatrat e tyre. Armiku na shkeli
(na shkatërroi) vatrat tona.
5. fig. Vendi ku lind e zhvillohet diçka, vendi prej
nga vjen a përhapet diçka, burimi i diçkaje; vendi a
pika që tërheq vëmendjen më të madhe; qendra e
një veprimtarie a e diçkaje tjetër; çerdhe; djep.
Vatër revolucionare (patriotike). Vatër e
rëndësishme e luftës çlirimtare. Vatër shkencore
(kulturore). Vatër kulture (përparimi). Vatër e
edukimit revolucionar. Vatër e lëvizjes popullore.
Vatra e kryengritjes (e qëndresës). Vatër
agresioni (konflikti, lufte). Vatra e tërmetit (e
vullkanit). Vatër epidemie (infektimi).
6. fiziol. Qendra e një veprimtarie nervore. Vatra e
nxitjes (e frenimit). Vatrat e sistemit nervor.
7. mjek. Vendi në trupin e një njeriu ose të një
kafshe të sëmurë, që është qendra e qelbëzimit, e
mahisjes ose e një sëmundjeje tjetër. Vatër
tuberkulozi. Vatër qelbi. Zbuloi (zhduku) vatrën e
sëmundjes.
8. fiz., opt. Pika ku kryqëzohen a priten rrezet e një
tufe drite, pasi kjo të ketë përshkuar një thjerrzë
ose të jetë kthyer nga një pasqyrë e përkulur.
Vatër shembëllimi. Vatra e pasqyrës (e thjerrzës).
Vatra e xhamit zmadhues.
9. gjeom. Pikë e diametrit kryesor të elipsës etj., që
ka veti të veçanta kundrejt pikave të lakores.
Vatrat e elipsës. Largësia midis vatrave.
10. përd. ndajf. (në bashkëvajtje me një). Shumë,
tufë. Ka një vatër fëmijë. Është me një vatër
kalamaj. Erdhën një vatër mysafirë (miq).
* Në krye (në qoshe) të vatrës në vendin më të
nderuar, në krye të vendit. I thau vatrën shih te
THAJ. Është bërë gjysh në vatër shih te GJYSH,~I.
I daltë hithra në vatër! mallk. shih te
HIDH/ËR,~RA. Ishte me dy krënde në vatër shih
te KRËND,~I. Jam një zjarr e një vatër me dikë
shih te ZJARR,~I 2. Nxjerr ujë në vatër dikush
a) s'lë gjë pa trazuar e pa prishur, s'lë dy gurë
bashkë, është shumë i prapë (thuhet sidomos për
fëmijët);
b) është shumë i zoti. Lopa në mal, përsheshi në
vatër (në xham) fj.u. shih te LOP/Ë,~A. Vatër
kulture institucion që merret me organizimin e
drejtimin e veprimtarisë kulturore e artistike në një
fshat të vogël.

LeBrok
19-02-10, 22:20
What's your point posting the whole definition now in Albanian?

Do you have haplotypes of Gorales to link them to Illyrians? Or only sort of similar pants and one word Vatra? Any other cultural similarities, music, customs, art?

LeBrok
19-02-10, 22:22
I don't think so... :grin:

No worries bud, I wasn't serious, just having a little fun with this. That's all. :grin:

Neander
20-02-10, 14:55
Do you have haplotypes of Gorales to link them to Illyrians?
Haplotyp is not ethnicity. Ethnicity is not haplotype. But they have the same dinaric race.

Or only sort of similar pants and one word Vatra?
What do they inherited from ancient non-slavic culture, except of ""similar pants and one word Vatra""????

Eireannach
20-04-10, 10:47
Here is an interesting article on the Irish Warpipes which are very similar to the Highland pipes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Irish_Warpipes

LeBrok
16-05-10, 22:36
[QUOTE=LeBrok;355517]Trousers as we know them gained popularity only in last few centuries. Before that pants were only used as undergarment and for horse riding. Other than that all peoples in Europe wore some sort of skirts, men and women.
QUOTE]
I have to correct myself. I was reading recently some material about Scythians, and these guys are definitely showed with pants on from at least first millennium BC. And we are talking about real pants, even thick quilted, heavy duty. I guess it makes sense to invent them in cold winters, continental steppe climate. Probably it is wise to conclude that as long as people lived far north they had pants, though we can't confirm it with a written records.

Cambrius (The Red)
17-05-10, 23:17
Haplotyp is not ethnicity. Ethnicity is not haplotype. But they have the same dinaric race.
What do they inherited from ancient non-slavic culture, except of ""similar pants and one word Vatra""????

Dinaric is not a race, it's a phenotype.

YLLIRJANIngaYLLIRIA
04-09-10, 22:32
The name "Fustanella" is an Albanian name itself which can only be translated by the Albanian language.

Fustan = Dress (ella = Albanian suffix)


That type of dress originated in the balkans, and was adopted by the Celts (Who were actually neighbours of Illyrian-Albanians because they lived right above them) which is why you see Scotland having that same thing today.

iapodos
05-09-10, 00:42
Haplotyp is not ethnicity. Ethnicity is not haplotype. But they have the same dinaric race.
What do they inherited from ancient non-slavic culture, except of ""similar pants and one word Vatra""????

Albanians does not belong nor to dinaric race nor to dinaric haplotype. It is mostly very short people, totaly oposite of tall Montenegrins beside them. That difference is so obvious that every Yugoslav, only by physical appearance, could recognize Albanian. I lived among Albanians for a very long period, and I am telling what I saw.
Also, as far I know there is no any kind of scientific proof that Albanians have anything in common with Illyrians, nor in language, nor in archeological findings.That Illyromania was part of Albanian national revival, the same way as it was used in Croatia with Illyrian movement.

YLLIRJANIngaYLLIRIA
05-09-10, 03:15
Albanians does not belong nor to dinaric race nor to dinaric haplotype. It is mostly very short people, totaly oposite of tall Montenegrins beside them. That difference is so obvious that every Yugoslav, only by physical appearance, could recognize Albanian. I lived among Albanians for a very long period, and I am telling what I saw.
Also, as far I know there is no any kind of scientific proof that Albanians have anything in common with Illyrians, nor in language, nor in archeological findings.That Illyromania was part of Albanian national revival, the same way as it was used in Croatia with Illyrian movement.


Nice Serbian propaganda you have there, why dont you take that to StormFront :laughing:


The word "Illyria" is an Albanian word.

Iliria in Albanian meand "The Free One"

And spare me the bull about Albanian genetics. It's been proven that most Albanians belong to the Haplogroups I and R1b, with R1a and E in the smaller side.


Kosovars Albanians are also some of the tallest Europeans in general, averaging 182 cm in height.


Take your BS somewhere else ignorant Serb.

:good_job:

Besir Bajrami
05-09-10, 04:22
Illyrians, Celts and Gales - Similarities

As we know from mythology Illyrians, Celts and Gales, are brother whith the same parents. Today, scientifically DNA tells us the same thing, that these people have some of the same haplogroups(like "R", "I"...) and came from the same tree, the same antique culture.

iapodos
05-09-10, 21:46
Nice Serbian propaganda you have there, why dont you take that to StormFront :laughing:


The word "Illyria" is an Albanian word.

Iliria in Albanian meand "The Free One"

And spare me the bull about Albanian genetics. It's been proven that most Albanians belong to the Haplogroups I and R1b, with R1a and E in the smaller side.


Kosovars Albanians are also some of the tallest Europeans in general, averaging 182 cm in height.


Take your BS somewhere else ignorant Serb.

:good_job:


There was no attention of me to offend megalomanic Albanian. I would post few statements from wikipedia:

Arguments against Illyrian origin

The theory of an Illyrian origin of the Albanians is challenged on linguistic grounds.[4]
According to linguist V. Georgiev, the theory of an Illyrian origin for the Albanians is weakened by a lack of any Albanian names before the 12th century and the relative absence of Greek influence that would surely be present if the Albanians inhabited their homeland continuously since ancient times.[58] The number of Greek words borrowed in Albania is small; if the Albanians originated near modern-day Albania, there should be more.[59]
According to Georgiev, although some Albanian toponyms descend from Illyrian, Illyrian toponyms from antiquity have not changed according to the usual phonetic laws applying to the evolution of Albanian. Furthermore, placenames can be a special case and the Albanian language more generally has not been proven to be of Illyrian stock.[42]
Many linguists have tried to link Albanian with Illyrian, but without clear results.[42][60] Albanian belongs to the satem group within Indo-European language tree, while there is a debate weather Illyrian was centum or satem. On the other hand, Dacian[60] and Thracian[61] seem to belong to satem.
There is a lack of clear archaeological evidence for a continuous settlement of an Albanian-speaking population since Illyrian times. For example, while Albanians scholars maintain that the Komani-Kruja burial sites support the Illyrian-Albanian continuity theory, most scholars reject this and consider that the remains indicate a population of Romanized Illyrians who spoke a Romance language.[62][63][64] Recently, some Albanian archeologists have also been moving away from describing the Komani-Kruja culture as a proto-Albanian culture.[65]
The Illyrians as a people went extinct, so did their languages by the 6th century.[66] Today, almost nothing of it survives except for names.[67] Ancient Illyrians were subject to varying degrees of Celticization,[68][69] Hellenization,[70] Romanization[71][72] and later Slavicisation.

And it is simply not true that Albanians have high frequency of I2a2. As a member of I2a2 haplogroup I have seen hundreds of haplotypes of I2a and as much I remember there was only one Albanian represantative.

It is enough just to see following tables and maps and who wants to see the truth everything will be clear to him.

Pay attention on Albania facts on the chart:
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/HgE1b1b1a2.png

And honestly I don't see why are you so embarrassed by the fact of carrying highest percent of E1b1b1 haplogroup in Europe. Or you simply think that some haplogroup is less worth than other.

Besir Bajrami
06-09-10, 04:04
"Iapdos"
Do not ruin the continuity of theme with your personal complexes about origin of the Albanians and the autochtony of south Slavs (as you are) in the Balkans, we are discussing this topic about something more concrete.
About every theory, you can find support ! - Also I can tell you thousands scientist linguist, anthropologist, historian, artist ... who talk about language, origin, culture... of albanians, so diametrically against your way of thinking, but that doesn't make a difference about you. You can find a compromise: leave that to the science. Anyway, the scientific precision would be to pedestal, just in a time of positive globalization and when nationalism would disappear in it, than you and I will talk in different way.

Illyrians, Greeks, Macedonians, Thracs... were a culture, not a race, not a nations... and we albanians are a synthesis of these ancient cultures:
Video in YouTube:
Albanian Dna
Albanian Dna 2
Albanian DNA and language
...
Here some books against your way of thinking:
Before XVIII century
1509 Eneo Silvio Piccolomini - 'Cosmograhia Pii Papae in Asiase & Europe [...]'
1555 Konrad Gesner Schweizer - “Mithridas sive de differentiis linguarum”
1587 Andrea de Poza Spanierin - “Albaner nannte man früher Epiroten”
1599 G. Skaliger Franzose - 'Langues europeennes, “die epirotische Sprache von früher ist die albanische Sprache von heute'
1695 Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - 'Correspondence on the Albanian Language';
1646-1716 Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - “Albanische Sprache ist die alte illyrische
1769 Johan Ihre - 'Glossarium Suiogothicum'
1774 Johann Thunman - 'Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europaeischen Völker'
1777 Niccolò Chetta - 'Tesoro di notizie su de’ Macedoni'
1746 - 1770 Hans Tunman - 'Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europäischen Völker “Albaner sind die direkten Nachfolger der Illyrer und wurden nicht romanisiert ”
1744 - 1803 Johann G.Herde Deutscher - 'Ideen zur Philosophie der Geschichte der Menschheit'
1784 Johann G.Herde Deutsche - “Albaner Nachfolger der Illyrer”
1751-1819 Daniel Farlati dhe Jakob Koleti - Enciklopedia "Illyricum Sacrum";
1755-1826 Conrad Malte-Bruun Däne - ' Annales des Voyages de la Geographie et de l`Historie' / Paris 1809 - “Albaner Nachfolger der Illyrer”
1790-1866 Jakob Falmerajer - “Das albanische Element in Griechenland”; “Besteht eine Verbindung der Albaner und Illyrern"
1794-1881 Ami Bue - “Verbindung der Illyrer mit Albanern”


Cent. XIX
1806 Johann Christoph Adelung - 'Mithridates oder allgemeine Sprachenkunde [...]'
1807 Angelo Masci - 'Discorso sull’ origine, costume e stato attuale della nazione Albanese'
1811-1869 Johann Georg von Hahn - “Die vorfahren der Albaner sind eindeutig die Illyrer”
1812 Conrad Malte-Brun - 'Precis de la geographie universelle, [...]'
1814-1866 H.Hekard - 'Historia et Description de la Haute' - Albanie ou Guegarie “Illyrer Vorfahren der heutigen Albaner”
1816 Franz Bopp - 'Über das Conjugationsystem der Sanskritsprache [...]'
{1854 Franz Bopp - 'Ueber das Albanesische [...]'}
1817-1903 Teodor Mommsen - “Römische Geschichte”; “Die überlebenden der Illyrer sind die Albaner”
1820 François Pouquevile - 'Voyage dans le Grece'
1821-1882 D. Camarda - “Albanisch die älteste Sprache der welt”
1826 Christian Gottlob Gisner - Die alten Pelasger
1831 Giuseppe Crispi – 'Memoria sulla lingua albanese'
1835 Josef Xylander - 'Die Sprache der Albenesen oder Skipetaren'
1835 Ph. Fallmerayer - 'Welchen Einfluß hatte die Besetzung Griechenlands durch die Slawen auf das Schicksal der Stadt Athen und der Landschaft Attika? '
1847 Vincenzo Dorsa - 'Sugli albanesi, Ricerche e pensieri'
{1862 Vincenzo Dorsa - Studi etimologici della lingua albanese}
1854 Johann Georg von Hahn - 'Albanesiche Studien'
1855 Karl Reinhold - 'Noctes Pelasgicae vel symbolae ad cognoscendas dialectos Graeciae Pelasgicas'
1855 Nikolaos Nikokles - 'De albnensium sive Shkiptar origine et prosapia'
1860 Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer - 'Das albanesische Element in Griechenland'
1864 Demetrio Camarda - 'Saggio di grammatologia comparata sulla lingua albanese'
1860 Frank Miklosici - “Albanische Forschung”
1866 L.Iasmouche - 'La Peninsule Balkanique”; “Die Albaner sind die einzigen repräsentierte Nation die von den Illyrern überlebt hat”
1877 Louis Benloew- 'Grèce avant les grecs: étude linguistique e ethnographique : pélasges, léléges, sémites e ioniens'
1878 Panajoti Kupitori - 'Studime shqiptare'
1879 Pashko Vasa - 'The Truth on Albania and the Albanians, Historical and Critical Issues'
1881 Arbereshi de Martino - 'L'arpa d'un Italo-Albanese: poesie varie
1886 Francesco Tajani - 'Le istorie albenesi'
1888 Marchiano Stanislao - 'I Pelasgi e la loro lingua'
1890 Ellis Hesselmeyer - 'Die Pelasgerfrage und Ihre Losbarkeit'
1850-1900 Gustav Meyer - “Albanische Studien”
1891 Gustav Meyer - 'Etymologisches Wörterbuch der Albanesischen Sprache'
1894 Girolamo de Rada - 'Appendice alla grammatica: Antologia albanese'
1894 Eduard Schneider - 'Une race oublièe, Les Pelasges et leurs descendantes'
1896 Eduard Schneider “Albanisch ist der reinste Beweis das sie die nachkommen der Illyrer Pelasger sind”
1896 Kretchmer Paul - 'Hyrje në historinë e gjuhës Greke'
1896 Spiro Lambro - 'Emërtimet e Atikës ( athinës) dhe vënd vendosjet e Shqiptarëve'
1899 Sami Frasheri - 'Shqipëria ç'ka qënë, ç'është e ç'do të bëhet'


Cent. XX
1901 Arturo Galanti - 'L'Albania'
1904 – 1906 Peck Vilmos – 'Okori Lexicon'
Gregorovius Ferdinand; 'Historia e qyteteve të Athinës në mesjetë'
1906 G. Hertzberg - 'Historia e greqisë nga mbarimi lashtësisë deri në ditët e sotme'
1907 John Linton Myres - 'A History of the Pelasgian Theory'
1907 Mihal Lambrinidhu - 'Shqiptarët në greqi dhe në poloponez'
1912 Iakovo Thomopulo – 'Pellazgji'
1913 Nicolae Densusianu - 'Dacia Preistorica'
1917 Donald MacKenzie - 'Myths of Crete and Pre-Hellenic Europe'
1922 Agostino Ribecco - 'Vetustà della lingua albanese e sua importanza nella spiegazione del mondo antico'
1924 Jokel Norbert - 'Ilirët, shqiptarët, frigiatët dhe Trakët dhe Shqiptarët'
1924 Luigi Ugolini - 'L’antica Albania nelle ricerche archeologiche'
1934 John Arthur Munro - 'Pelasgians and Ionians'
1936 Leonid Ndrenika - 'Pelasgi e la loro lingua: cenni storici e filologici'
1937 George Fred Williams - 'Shqiptaret'
1940 Michele Gervasio - 'Albania Antica'
1944 Jakov Milaj - 'Raca Shqiptare'
1947 Valentin Ditjakin - 'Soviet science of the origin of the Slavs'
1950 Milan Budimir - 'The Greeks and Pelasti';
{1956 Milan Budimir - 'Pelasto – Slavica'}
1952 Albert van Windekens - 'Le Pelasgique Essaisur une langue indo-europenne prehellenique'
{1960 Albert van Windekens - 'Etudes Pelasgiques'}
1959 Julius Pokorny - 'Indogermanisches Etimologisches Worterbuch'
1960 Fritz Lochner-Hüttenbach - 'Die Pelasger'
1961 Zacharie Mayani - 'The Etruscans Begin to Speak'
{1973 Zacharie Mayani - 'Fundi i misterit Etrusk'}
1964 Konda Spiro - 'Shqiptarët dhe problemi Pellazgjik'
1965 D.A.Hester - 'Pelasgian a new Indo-European language?'
1966 Tajar Zavalani - 'Histori e Shqipnis'
1982 Giuseppe Catapano - Elena (Gesù; Menelao Abbandonato, Etj.)
{1983 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Thot Parlava Albanese'}
{1984 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Faraon, la nostra stirpe' (Antichità della lingua albanese; etj.)}
{1995 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Ramseti i madh ishte i gjakut tonë' (Art.)}
{1996 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Shqiptarët, Popull i ndarë'}
1966 L.S.Abel - 'Fifth Century B.C., Concepts of the Pelasgians'
1965 S.Anamali, F.Prendi, S.Islami, H.Ceka – 'Iliria te autorët antikë'
1971 Skender Anamali - 'Përmbledhje artikujsh arkeologjike për historinë e lashtë të Shqipërisë'
{2009 Skender Anamali - 'Amantia, qytet i Ilirisë Jugore'}
1975 James Mellaart - 'The Neolithic of the Near East'
1977 Vladimir Ivanov Georgiev - 'Trakite i tehnijat ezik'
1977 Michael Sakellariou - 'Peuple préhelléniques d'origine indo-européennee'
1979 Fritz Schachermeyr - 'Die Ägäische Frühzeit [...]'
1979 Robert Buck - 'A History of Boeotia'
1979 Edgar Furnee - 'Study to the East Mediterranean Subtrat in Addition to an Attempt to a New Pelasgian Theory'
1980 James Pandeli - 'Oh Albania, My Poor Albania'
{2003.James Pandeli - 'The Language Of God'}
1981 Irnerio Gnudi - 'Pelasgi, Fenici, Etruschi, [...]'
1983 Aleksandr Iosifovič Nemirovskij - 'Etruski: ot mira k istorii'
1984 Akaki Urushadze - 'The Country of the Enchantress Media'
1984 Nermin Vlora Falaschi - 'Pelasgi, iliri, etruschi, albanesi'
{1989 Nermin Vlora Falaschi - Etrusco lingua viva}
{1997 Nemrin Vlora Falaschi - 'Prona gjuhësore dhe gjentike: Probabilitet e monogjenezës embrionale të fjalëve'}
{1998 Nermin Vlora Falaschi - 'Pellazget-iliret-etrusket-shqiptaret: Qyteterime me te lashta mesdhetare'}
1985 Rismag Gordeziani - 'Pre-Grecian and Georgian'
1986 Alexander Fol - 'Trakijskijat orfizam'
2008 Hansjörg Frommer - "Die Illyrer 4000 Jahre europäische Geschichte"
1988 Pierre Cabanes - “Les Illyriens de Bardylis a Genthios”
1989 E. B. French. - 'Archaeology in Greece (Archaeological Reports, No. 36.)'
1990 Dhimiter Pilika - 'Pellazgët, origjina jonë e mohuar'
1990 Robert D'Angely - 'Enigma'
{1990 Robert D'Angely - 'The Illyrians Thracians & Homer'}
{1998 Robert D'Angely - 'Comparative Albanian Grammar'}
1990 Ludwig Klages - 'I Pelasgi'
1994 Eqrem Çabej - Shqiptaret midis Perendmit dhe Lindjes
1995 Edwin Jacques - Shqiptaret
1996 Vladimir Xhelaj - Zgjidhja e enigmës së misterit etrusk
{2009 Vladimir Xhelaj - 'Në origjinë të kombit shqiptar dhe të gjuhës së tij: Arbëria dhe arbërit; ilirët dhe gjuha e tyre; etj.'}
1997 Nezir Myrta - 'Iliristika'
1998 John Wilkes - 'Iliret'
1999 Shaban Demiraj - 'Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe'
1983 Aristidh Kola – 'Arvanitasit dhe prejardhja e grekeve'
{1989 Aristidh Kola - 'Gjuha e Perendive'}
{2000 Aristidh Kola - 'Zeusi pellazgjik dhe mashtrimi indoeuropian'}

Cent. XXI
2000 Preloc Margilaj - 'Ilirët flasin shqip, Shqiptarët flasin ilirisht'
2000 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Bijtë e shpatës shqiptare'
{2001 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Epiri, kryeqëndra e qytetërimit antik në Evropë'}
{2001 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Gjëmon historia e shqiptarëve'}
{2005 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Teuta, Mbretëresha e Ilirisë'}
{2005 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Aleksandri i Madh'}
2001 Georges Castellan - 'Histoire de l'Albanie et des Albanais'
2001 Jean Faucounau - 'The Proto-Ionians: Story of a Forgotten People'
{2002 Shaban Demiraj - 'Gramatikë historike e gjuhës shqipe'}
{2004 Shaban Demiraj - 'Gjuhësi ballkanike'}
{2006 Shaban Demiraj - 'Origin of the Albanians: linguistically investigated'}
{2008 Shaban Demiraj - 'Epiri, pellazgët, etruskët dhe shqiptarët'}
2004 Andreas Lippert -" Die Illyrer. Katalog zu einer Ausstellung von archäologischen Funden der albanischen Eisenzeit (12. - 4. Jh. v. Chr.)"
2005 Jean Faucounau - 'The Greek origins to the Bronze Age'}
2002 Stephanie Schwandner-Sievers & Bernd J. Fischer, Eds. - 'Albanian Identities, Myth and History'
2002 Aleksander Stipçeviq - 'Iliret'
2002 Jaho Brahaj - 'Flamuri i kombit Shqiptar'
2003 Muzafer Korkuti - 'Parailiret, Iliret, Arberit'
2003 Mathieu Aref - 'Albania or the incredible odyssey of preHellenic people'
{2004 Mathieu Aref - 'Greece: (Mycéniens = Pélasges) or the solution of an enigma'}
2004 Edward Bulwer Lytton – 'Athens, Its Rise and Fall, [...]'
2004 Niko Stylos - "Historia e shenjtë e Arvanitëve";
2004 Niko Stylos - "MARKO BOÇARI"
2005 Petro Zheji - 'Shqipja dhe Sankritishtja'
2005 Enzo Gatti – Iliret
2006 Elena Kocaqi – 'Albanet me fame mijevjeçare'
{2007 Elena Kocaqi - 'Roli pellazgo-ilir në krijimin e kombeve dhe gjuhëve evropiane'}
{2008 Elena Kocaqi - 'Shqipja çelësi i gjuhëve indoevropiane'}
{2009 Elena Kocaqi - 'Planet për zhdukjen e shqiptarëve: si u krijua Greqia dhe Serbia në trojet shqiptare'}
2006 Arsim Spahiu - 'Pellazgët dhe ilirët në Greqinë e vjetër'
2006 Arthur Evans - 'Ancient Illyria: An Archaeological Exploration'
2007 Ignacy Ryszard Danka - 'Pelazgowie, autochtoni Hellady, [...]'
2007 Fiqiret Barbullushi - 'Akili, Odiseja... nuk ishin helenë [...]'
{2009 Fiqiret Barbullushi - 'Akili dhe Agamemnoni'}
2007 Alberto Areddu – 'Le origini albanesi della civiltà in Sardegna'
2008 Ali Eltari - 'Pellazgët, krijuesit e qytetërimit botëror'
2008 Pjeter Nikolla - 'E vërteta e mitologjisë iliro-pellazge'
2008 Ibrahim Kelmendi - 'Ilirët në protohistori : origjina, kultura dhe përhapja e tyre'
2008 Selim Islami - 'Historia e ilirëve: përmbledhje punimesh'
2008 Shpresa Omer - 'Në gjurmët e pellazgjishtes: një krahasim etimologjik i fjalëve të gjermanishtes me ato të shqipes'
2008 Artan Haxhi - 'Etnogjeneza e gjuhës shqipe: përsiatje'
2008 Kapllan Burovic - 'Who are Albanians?: studies into the origin of Albanians'
2009 Luftulla & Liliana Peza - 'Dritë e re mbi pellazgët dhe gjuhën e tyre'
...
The arguments for the Illyrian-Albanian connection have been as follows:[36][37]
* The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi,[38][39][40] an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 A.D.
* From what we know from the old Balkan populations territories (Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians), Albanian language is spoken in the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.[41]
* There is no evidence of any major migration into Albanian territory since the records of Illyrian occupation.[42]
* Many of what remain as attested words to Illyrian have an Albanian explanation and also a number of Illyrian lexical items (toponyms, hydronyms, oronyms, anthroponyms, etc.) have been linked to Albanian.[43]
* Borrowed words (eg Gk (NW) "device, instrument" mākhaná > *mokër "millstone" Gk (NW) drápanon > *drapër "sickle" etc) from Greek language date back before the Christian era[44] and are mostly of Doric dialect of Greek language,[45] which means that the ancestors of the Albanians were in Northwestern part of Ancient Greek civilization and probably borrowed them from Greek cities (Dyrrachium, Apollonia, etc) in the Illyrian territory, colonies whic belonged to the Doric division of Greek, or from the contacts in Epirus area.
* Borrowed words from Latin (eg Latin aurum > ar "gold", gaudium > gaz "gas" etc[46]) date back before the Christian era,[47][48] while Illyrians in the todays Albanian territory were the first from the old Balkan populations to be conquered by Romans in 229 - 167 B.C., Thracians were conquered in 45 A.D. and Dacians in 106 A.D.
* The ancient Illyrian place-names of the region have achieved their current form following Albanian phonetic rules e.g. Durrachion > Durrës (with the Albanian initial accent) Aulona > Vlonë~Vlorë (with rhotacism) Scodra > Shkodra etc.[49][50][51][52]
* The characteristics of the Albanian dialects Tosk and Geg[53] in the treatment of the native and loanwords from other languages, have lead to the conclusion that the dialectal split preceded the Slavic migration to the Balkans[54][55] which means that in that period (5th to 6th century AD) Albanians were occupying pretty much the same area around Shkumbin river[56] which straddled the Jirecek line.[57][58]

1. ^ a b c Gheg 2,779,246 + Tosk 2,980,000 + Arbereshe 80,000 + Arvanitika 150,000 = 5,989,246. (Ethnologue, 2005)
Gordon, Raymond G., Jr. (ed.), 2005. Ethnologue: Languages of the World, Fifteenth edition. Dallas, Tex.: SIL International. Online version: ethnologue.com.
2. ^ in Notes et éxtraits pour servir à l'histoire des croisades au XV-ème siècle (4-ème sèrie, 1453-1576, Bucharest, 1915, p. 194-198).
3. ^ Dumitru Todericiu, An Albanian text older than the "Christening Formula" of 1462, in "Magazin Istoric", nr. 8, Bucharest, November 1967.
4. ^ Dr. Robert Elsie, The Bellifortis text and early Albanian in "Zeitschrift für Balkanologie", Berlin, 22 February 1986, p. 158-162..
5. ^ Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, Birmingham, 15 (1991), p. 20-34.
6. ^ [1] Mallory, J. P. and Adams, D. Q.: The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World
7. ^ [2] Holm, Hans J.: The Distribution of Data in Word Lists and its Impact on the Subgrouping of Languages. In: Christine Preisach, Hans Burkhardt, Lars Schmidt-Thieme, Reinhold Decker (eds.): Data Analysis, Machine Learning, and Applications. Proc. of the 31st Annual Conference of the German Classification Society (GfKl), University of Freiburg, March 7-9, 2007. Springer-Verlag, Heidelberg-Berlin
8. ^ [3] A possible Homeland of the Indo-European Languages And their Migrations in the Light of the Separation Level Recovery (SLRD) Method - Hans J. Holm
9. ^ Perfect Phylogenetic Networks: A New Methodology for Reconstructing the Evolutionary History of Natural Languages, pg. 396
10. ^ Leibniz, Gottfried Wilhelm. Albaner - Brife, Hanover, 1705 (E.P.Hamp, On Leibniz's Third Albanian Letter - Zeitschrift fur Balkanologie, Je XVI/1, 1981, M.Reiter, Leibnizen's Albanel - Briefe - Zeitschrift fur Balkanologie Jg. XVI, 1980,)Thunmann, Johann. Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europäischen Völker. Laipzig (1774). Kopitar, B.J. Albanische, walachische und bulgarische Sprache. Wien (1829) Hahn, Georg von. Albanesische Studien. Wien (1853). Bopp, Franz. Über das Albanesische in seinen verwandtschaftlichen Beziehungen. Berlin (1855). Camarda, Demetrio. Saggio di grammatologia comparata sulla lingua albanese. Livorno (1864. Camarda, Demetrio. Appendice al Saggio di grammatologia sulla lingua albanese. Prato (1866). Miklosich, Franz: Albanische Forschungen. I: Die slavischen Elemente im Albanischen. Wien (1870). Miklosich, Franz. Albanische Forschugen, II: Die romanischen Elemente im Albanischen. Wien (1870). Meyer, Gustav. Albanesische Studien. I - Wien 1882; III - 1892; V - 1896. Pedersen, Holger. Bidrag til den albanesiske sproghistorie. (Festskrift til Vilhelm Thomsen). Kobenhavn (1894). Pedersen, Holger. Albanesisch 1905. Rom. Jb. IX (1905). Erlangen (1909). Kretschmer, Paul. Einleitung in die Geschichte der griechischen Sprache, (Hyrje në historinë e gjuhës greke), Göttingen, (1896) Kretschmer, Paul. Sprachliche Vorgeschichte des Balkans, (Parahistoria gjuhësore e Ballkanit), Revue Internationale des e'tudes balkaniquee, vol. II (1935) Thumb, A. Altgriechische Elemente des Albanesischen. IF 26 (1926). Sandfeld, Kristian. Linguistique balkanique, problemes et resultats. Paris 1930. Cimochowski, Waclaw. Recherches sur l'histoire du sandhi dans la langue albanaise. LP II, 1950. Cimochowski, Waclaw. Des recherches sur la toponomastique de l'Albanie. LP VIII, 1960. Cimochowski, Waclaw. Pozicioni gjuhësor i ilirishtes ballkanike në rrethin e gjuhëve indoevropiane. SF 1973/2. Lambertz, Maximilian. Lehrgang des Albanischen. Teil I: Albanisch-Deutsches Wörterbuch. Teil II: Albanische Chrestomathie. Teil III: Grammatik der albanischen Sprache (Berlin: Deutscher Verlag der Wissenschaften 1954, Berlin 1955, Halle/Saale 1959). Gjinari, Jorgji. Për historinë e dialekteve të gjuhës shqipe. SF 1968/4. Gjinari, Jorgji. Mbi vazhdimësinë e ilirishtes në gjuhën shqipe. SF 1969/3. Gjinari, Jorgji. Struktura dialektore e shqipes e parë në lidhje me historinë e popullit. SF 1976/3. Gjinari, Jorgji. Dëshmi të historisë së gjuhës shqipe për kohën dhe vendin e formimit të popullit shqiptar. SF 1982/3. Mayer, Antun. Die Sprache der alten Illyrier. B. II. Wien 1959. Tagliavini, Carlo. La stratificazione del lessico albanese. Elementi indoeuropei. Bologna 1965. Mihaescu, Haralambie. Les elements latins de la langue albanaise. RESEE 1966/1-2. Mihaescu, Haralambie La langue latine dans le sud-est de l’Europe. Bucuresti-Paris: Editura Academiei-Les Belles Lettres (1978). Mann, Stuart E.: An Albanian Historical Grammar ; Hamburg : Helmut Buske Verlag, 1977 Çabej, Eqrem. Disa probleme themelore të historisë së vjetër të gjuhës shqipe. BUSHT,SSHSH 1962/4 (In German SA 1964/1). Çabej, Eqrem. Rreth disa Çështjeve të historisë së gjuhës shqipe. BUSHT,SSHSH1963/3 (In Romanian SCL 1954/4). Çabej, Eqrem. Mbi disa rregulla të fonetikës historike të shqipes. SF 1970/2 (In German “Die Sprache”, Wien 1972). Çabej, Eqrem. L'ancien nom national des albanais. SA 1972/1. Çabej, Eqrem. Problemi i vendit të formimit të gjuhës shqipe. SF 1972/4. Çabej, Eqrem. Karakteristikat e huazimeve latine të gjuhës shqipe. SF 1974/2 (In German RL 1962/1). Çabej, Eqrem. Studime etimologjike në fushë të shqipes.; vëll. II, Tiranë 1976. Çabej, Eqrem. Studime etimologjike në fushë të shqipes; vëll. I. Tiranë 1982. Desnickaja, A.V. Albanskij jazyk i ego dialekty. Leningrad 1968. Desnickaja, A.V. Language Interferences and Historical Dialectology Linguistics, EJ088069 (1973) Desnickaja, A.V. Osnovy balkanskogo jazykoznanija, Cast 1. Leningrad: Nauka Press. 1990. Pisani, Vittore L'albanais et les autres langues indoeuropéennes, "Annuaire de l'Institut de philologie et d'histoire orientales etslaves", t. X, Bruxelles, 1950 Pisani, Vittore. Les origines de la langue albanaise. SA 1964/1. Pisani, Vittore. Sulla genesi dell'albanese. Akten Innsbruck (1972). Ajeti, Idriz. La presence de l'albanais dans les parlers des populations slaves de la Peninsule Balkanique а la lumiere de la langue et de la toponymie. SA 1968/2. Ajeti, Idriz. Për historinë e marrëdhënieve të hershme gjuhësore shqiptare-sllave. SF 1972/4. Ölberg, Hermann. Einige Uberlegungen zur Autochtonie der Albaner auf der Balkanhalbinsel. Akten Innsbruck (1972). Ölberg, Hermann. Kontributi i gjuhësisë për çështjen e atdheut ballkanik të shqiptarëve. SF 1982/3. Domi, Mahir. Prapashtesa ilire dhe shqipe, përkime dhe paralelizma. SF 1974/4. Domi, Mahir. Considerations sur les traits communs ou paralleles de l'albanais avec les autres langues balkaniques et sur leur etude. SA 1975/1. Katicic, Radoslav. Ancient languages of the Balkans (Trends in linguistics). The Hague and Paris: Mouton. (1976). Riza, Selman. Studime albanistike. Pristina 1979. De Simone, Carlo. Gli illiri del Sud. Tentativo di una definizione. “Iliria” (Tiranë) 1986/1. Banfi, Emanuele. Linguistica balcanica. Bologna 1985. Banfi, Emanuele. Storia linguistica del sud-est europeo. Milano 1991. Huld, Martin E. Basic Albanian etymologies. Columbus, OH: Slavica Publishers. (1984). Buchholz, Oda / Fiedler, Wilfried: Albanische Grammatik ; Leipzig : VEB Verlag Enzyklopädie, (1987) Pellegrini, Giovan Battista : I rapporti linguistici interadriatici e l’elemento latino dell’albanese në: Abruzzo. Rivista dell'Istituto di Studi Abruzzesi XIX, 1980 Pellegrini, Giovan Battista : Disa vëzhgime mbi elementin latin të shqipes (Some observations over the latin element of the Albanian language), in: SF 1982/3 Pellegrini, Giovan Battista : Avviamento alla linguistica albanese (Edizione rinnovata) (1997) Demiraj, Shaban. Gjuha shqipe dhe historia e saj. Shtëpia botuese e librit universitar (Tirane) 1988. Demiraj, Shaban. Fonologjia historike e gjuhës shqipe. (Akademia e Shkencave e Shqiperise. Instituti i Gjuhesise dhe i Letersise) TOENA (Tirane), 1996 Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe. Shkenca (Tirane) 1999 Demiraj, Shaban. Gramatikë historike e gjuhës shqipe. (Akademia e Shkencave e Shqiperise. Instituti i Gjuhesise dhe i Letersise) 2002 Demiraj, Shaban. Gjuhësi Ballkanike. (Akademia e Shkencave e Shqiperise. Instituti i Gjuhesise dhe i Letersise) 2004
11. ^ Weigand, Gustav. Sind die Albaner die Nachkommen der Illyrier oder der Thraker? BA III. (1927). derives it from Thracian, Georgiev, Vladimir. Albanisch, Dakisch - Mysisch und Rumanisch. BE 1960/2 derives it from Dacian
12. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985
13. ^ Vladimir Orel (2000) links the word to an unattested Vulgar Latin *melettum, which must be a borrowing from NW Greek mélitta. There is no real reason to posit Vulgar Latin mediation. J.P. Mallory and D.Q. Adams (1997) have the word as a native development, from *melítiā, a form also considered to underly Greek mélissa; however, this form gave Albanian mjalcë "bee", which is a native word and derivative of mjaltë "honey" (< Proto-Albanian *melita). In any case, the word does not appear to be native to Albanian.
14. ^ The word fat has both the meaning of "fate, luck" and "groom, husband". This may indicate two separate words that are homophones, one derived from Gothic and the other from Latin fātum; although, Orel (2000) sees them as the same word. Similarly, compare Albanian shortë "fate; spouse, wife" which mirrors the dichotomy in meaning of fat but is considered to stem from one single source - Latin sortem "fate".
15. ^ Calvert Watkins, "The Indo-European Linguistic Family: Genetic and Typological Perspectives", in Anna Giacalone Ramat and Paolo Ramat, eds., The Indo-European Languages (London: Routledge, 1998) 38.
16. ^ William Labov, Principles of Linguistic Change, vol. 1: Internal Factors (Oxford, UK: Blackwell, 1994) 42.
17. ^ E.P. Hamp, "Albanian", in Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics (Oxford, UK: Persamon Press, 1994) 66-7.
18. ^ J.P. Mallory and D.Q. Adams, "Albanian", in Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture (London: Fitzroy Dearborn, 1997) 9.
19. ^ [4] Mallory, J. P. and Adams, D. Q.: The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World
20. ^ Kopitar, B.J. Albanische, walachische und bulgarische Sprache. Wien 1829, (254)
21. ^ Meyer, Gustav. Die lateinischen Elemente im Albanesischen. (In: Grцbers Grundriss, I; I.Auflage) (1888), (805)
22. ^ Meyer-Lübke, Wilhelm. Rumanisch, romanisch, albanesisch. (Mitteilungen des Romanischen Instituts an der Universitet Wien. I. Heilderberg 1914), (32)
23. ^ Çabej, Eqrem. Karakteristikat e huazimeve latine të gjuhës shqipe. SF 1974/2 (In German RL 1962/1) (13-51)
24. ^ Mihaescu, Haralambie. Les elements latins de la langue albanaise. RESEE 1966/1, 30
25. ^ Mihaescu, Haralambie. Les elements latins de la langue albanaise. RESEE 1966/1, 21
26. ^ Mihaescu, Haralambie. Les elements latins de la langue albanaise. RESEE 1966/1-2
27. ^ A. Rosetti, Istoria limbii române, 1986, pp. 195-197
28. ^ The Early Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Sixth to the Late Twelfth Century By John Van Antwerp Fine Edition: reissue, illustrated Published by University of Michigan Press, 1991 ISBN 0472081497, 9780472081493 (page 10)
29. ^ Thunmann, Johannes E. "Untersuchungen uber die Geschichte der Oslichen Europaischen Volger". Teil, Leipzig, 1774.
30. ^ Indo-European language and culture: an introduction By Benjamin W. Fortson Edition: 5, illustrated Published by Wiley-Blackwell, 2004 ISBN 1405103167, 9781405103169
31. ^ Stipčević, Alexander. Iliri (2nd edition). Zagreb, 1989 (also published in Italian as "Gli Illiri")
32. ^ NGL Hammond The Relations of Illyrian Albania with the Greeks and the Romans. In Perspectives on Albania, edited by Tom Winnifrith, St. Martin’s Press, New York 1992
33. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985
34. ^ Thunman, Hahn, Kretschmer, Ribezzo, La Piana, Sufflay, Erdeljanovic and Stadtmuller referenced at Hamp see (The position of Albanian, E. Hamp 1963)
35. ^ Jireček as referenced at Hamp see (The position of Albanian, E. Hamp 1963)
36. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985
37. ^ Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe.(Origin of Albanians through the testimonies of the Albanian language) Shkenca (Tirane) 1999
38. ^ History of the Byzantine Empire, 324-1453 By Alexander A. Vasiliev Edition: 2, illustrated Published by Univ of Wisconsin Press, 1958 ISBN 0299809269, 9780299809263 (page 613)
39. ^ History of the Balkans: Eighteenth and nineteenth centuries By Barbara Jelavich Edition: reprint, illustrated Published by Cambridge University Press, 1983 ISBN 0521274583, 9780521274586 (page 25)
40. ^ The Indo-European languages By Anna Giacalone Ramat, Paolo Ramat Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1998 ISBN 041506449X, 9780415064491 (page 481)
41. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 page 11
42. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 page 11 link [5]
43. ^ Çabej, E. "Die alteren Wohnsitze der Albaner auf der Balkanhalbinsel im Lichte der Sprache und der Ortsnamen," VII Congresso internaz. di sciense onomastiche, 1961 241-251; Albanian version BUShT 1962:1.219-227. "Problemi i autoktonisë së shqiptarëvet në dritën e emravet të vendeve," BUShT 1958:2.54-66. Also summarized in Bibliotheca Classica Orientalis (1960):5.20. See their summary at Hamp "Position of Albanian"
44. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 page 11 link [6]
45. ^ Çabej, E. "Die alteren Wohnsitze der Albaner auf der Balkanhalbinsel im Lichte der Sprache und der Ortsnamen," VII Congresso internaz. di sciense onomastiche, 1961 241-251; Albanian version BUShT 1962:1.219-227
46. ^ Çabej, Eqrem. Karakteristikat e huazimeve latine të gjuhës shqipe.(The characteristics of Latin Loans in Albanian language) SF 1974/2 (In German RL 1962/1) (13-51)
47. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 (page 11) borrowed words from Greek and Latin date back to before Christian era see also (page 9) Even very common words such as mik"friend"(<Lat. amicus) or këndoj"sing (<Lat. cantare) come from Latin and attest to a widespread intermingling of pre-Albanian and Balkan Latin speakers during the Roman period, roughfly from the second century BC to the fifth century AD.
48. ^ Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe.(Origin of Albanians through the testimonies of the Albanian language) Shkenca (Tirane) 1999
49. ^ Çabej, E. "Die alteren Wohnsitze der Albaner auf der Balkanhalbinsel im Lichte der Sprache und der Ortsnamen," VII Congresso internaz. di sciense onomastiche, 1961 241-251; Albanian version BUShT 1962:1.219-227
50. ^ Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985 page 11 link [7]
51. ^ Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe.(Origin of Albanians through the testimonies of the Albanian language) Shkenca (Tirane) 1999
52. ^ Cimochowski, W. "Des recherches sur la toponomastique de l’Albanie," Ling. Posn. 8.133-45 (1960). On Durrës
53. ^ In Tosk /a/ before a nasal has become a central vowel (shwa), and intervocalic /n/ has become /r/. These two sound changes have affected only the pre-Slav stratum of the Albanian lexicon, that is the native words and loanwords from Greek and Latin (page 23) Concise Encyclopedia of Languages of the World By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie Contributor Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie Edition: illustrated Published by Elsevier, 2008 ISBN 0080877745, 9780080877747
54. ^ The dialectal split into Geg and Tosk happened sometime after the region become Christianized in the fourth century AD; Christian Latin loanwords show Tosk rhotacism, such as Tosk murgu"monk" (Geg mungu) from Lat. monachus. (page 392) Indo-European language and culture: an introduction By Benjamin W. Fortson Edition: 5, illustrated Published by Wiley-Blackwell, 2004 ISBN 1405103167, 9781405103169
55. ^ The Greek and Latin loans have undergone most of the far-reaching phonological changes which have so altered the shape of inherited words while Slavic and Turkish words do not show those changes. Thus Albanian must have acquired much of its present form by the time Slavs entered into Balkans in the fifth and sixth centuries AD (page 9)Encyclopedia of Indo-European culture By J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams Edition: illustrated Published by Taylor & Francis, 1997 ISBN 1884964982, 9781884964985
56. ^ The river Shkumbin in central Albania historically forms the boundary between those two dialects, with the population on the north speaking varieties of Geg and the population on the south varieties of Tosk. (page 23) Concise Encyclopedia of Languages of the World By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie Contributor Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie Edition: illustrated Published by Elsevier,2008 ISBN 0080877745, 9780080877747
57. ^ Demiraj, Shaban. Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe.(Origin of Albanians through the testimonies of the Albanian language) Shkenca (Tirane) 1999
58. ^ See also Hamp 1963 The isogloss is clear in all dialects I have studied, which embrace nearly all types possible. It must be relatively old, that is, dating back into the post-Roman first millennium. As a guess, it seems possible that this isogloss reflects a spread of the speech area, after the settlement of the Albanians in roughly their present location, so that the speech area straddled the Jireček Line.
59. ^ Kazhdan, Alexander (Ed.) (1991). Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium. Oxford University Press. pp. 52–53. ISBN 978-0-19-504652-6.

* General Surveys
o "Albanian language", in Encyclopædia Britannica, 15th edn. (1985).
o Campbell, George L., ed. Compendium of the World’s Languages, 2nd edn., vol. 1: Abaza to Kurdish, s.v. “Albanian”. London and New York: Routledge, 2000, pp. 50–7.
o Hamp, E. P. “Albanian”, in Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics, edited by R. E. Asher, vol. 1. Oxford: Pergamon, 1994, pp. 65–7.
o Price, Glanville, ed. Encyclopedia of the Languages of Europe, s.v. “Albanian”. Oxford: Blackwell, 1998, pp. 4–8.

* Historical
o Demiraj, Shaban. "Albanian", in The Indo-European Languages, Anna Giacalone Ramat and Paolo Ramat, eds. London: Routledge, 1998.
o Fortson IV, Benjamin W. "Albanian", in Indo-European Language and Culture: An Introduction. London: Blackwell, 2004.
o Huld, Martin E. Basic Albanian Etymologies. Columbus, OH: Slavica Publishers, 1984.
o Mallory, J.P. and D.Q. Adams. "Albanian", in Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture. London: Fitzroy Dearborn, 1997.
o Orel, Vladimir. A Concise Historical Grammar of the Albanian Language: Reconstruction of Proto-Albanian. Leiden: Brill, 2000.

* Grammar
o Camaj, Martin. Albanian Grammar. Wiesbaden, Germany: Otto Harrassowitz.
o Newmark, Leonard et al. Standard Albanian: A Reference Grammar for Students. Standford: Stanford University Press, 1982.

* Other
o Gjinari, Jorgji. Dialektologjia shqiptare. Prishtinë: Universiteti, 1970.
o Xhelal Ylli, Andrej N. Sobolev, Albanskii toskskii govor sela Leshnja. Muenchen: Biblion Verlag, 2002. ISBN 3-932331-29-X
o Xhelal Ylli, Andrej N. Sobolev, Albanskii gegskii govor sela Muhurr. Muenchen: Biblion Verlag, 2003. ISBN 3-932331-36-2
...

Do you want more... ?!
Now leave the theme to continue about this conrete(cultural) "thing", what is being discussed...

iapodos
06-09-10, 11:26
Nice work. But there is one problem. Ninety percent of these authors are Albanians. Mytomania was one of major discipline among scientists and historians of various nationalities on Balkan. I could post you hundreds of editions of serbian scientists who claim that Serbs are heavenly chosen people, the oldest nation on the planet earth. Of course, I had to be an idiot to believe in such things.
I personally have nothing against the fact that Albanians feels themselves descendants of anciant Illyrians, but I have a problem when they use that story to claim that they are only people that deserve to live on Balkan. All others are intruders and newcomers. And I am guessing what would be with Albanian historiography if it appears that Illyrians are not oldest people on Balkan. Then they will probably start to claim that they are actually Greeks, and that real Greeks are some wild tribe which came to stole land of "ancient Albanians", which by the way are first time mention as a nation in 11th century ( and that is not for sure).
I asked myself why is haplogroup I2a so popular among nationalists of many Balkan states and I believe that is because of very wide accepted claim that it is the oldest haplogroup on Balkan. Their logic is: If we belong to haplogroup I2a then we must be the oldest nation on Balkan, and considering that we have more rights on that region than others.
So genetics, history especially, is specifically used in pure political sense.
The Albanian mytomania about Illyria should be observed in that way too.

Besir Bajrami
06-09-10, 14:04
90% of these materials were from others (non albanian) authors, don't you see that ?! - I asked you: "Do you want more... ?!" - But after you read something, not just to reply because you have to - You didn't give up whith your serbian propaganda, doesn't you ?! - Stop believing your lies, or your father lies ! - Mythmania is (what came from one battle whith ottomans, after you came here, by the way there were fighting and albanians too) is to say that Kosovo is Serbian land ! - I have thousands of evidence to argue for the occupation, genocide, ethnic cleansing, massacres (only on civils), murders of babies... what you Serbs have developed continuously since the VI century onwards, on the Albanian population, if you want I'll send you, but not in this topic.
- And what do you want to say whith these genetics what you mention always ?!
Here the official results of Albanian DNA and Serbian:
Albanian:
Y-chromosome (Y-DNA)
E1b1b1a; E1b1b1a2; E3b; E3b1a (E-M78); E-V13; I; I1; I1b2 (M-26); I2; I2a; I2a1; I2b; J2; J2a; J2b (J-M12); J2e (M-102); J1; R1a; R1b; G; G2a...

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA):
H; (H1+H3); V; J; T; U; (U4); (U5); K; I; W ...

Serbian: See the Y-DNA by country in this forum

So, the difference is that you have less the R1b; J2... and more the T(+L)
The others are + - the same whith albanians. Remember, here we came to the terms: Occupation; Assimilation... to understand why we have some common haplogroups.

"E" is known +54.000 - 78.000 years old, than "I", "J" + 45.000 years "G" + 31.000, "R" + 29.000
Attention: All haplogropus in pre-historic time, came from Africa(some earlier, some later). Now were is your problem ?!
- The haplogruop isn't a nation. So, our "race" is extract of cultures and languages of all Mediterranean. You have evidence from our language in the establishment of cultures in Egypt, Middle east, Caucasus, Greece, Italy...

And "E" is from Egypt, "J1" is from Semitic, "J2" is something else, "G" is from Caucasus; "R" is from pre-Indo-Europeans, who migrated in central Europe and together whith "I" created a part of Illyrians, Celts, Gals...
So we were the first who inhabits Balkans and Europe after Ice Age, so that makes us autochthon here, like a european race too, not only arfrican, arabian, middle eastern, or mediterrean.
Pay attention to ancient writters or Brittanica when they say: "Albanians(sons of the eagle) whith pre-helenic history" but I'm sure that doesn't means something to you, because you are captured from your pseudo-nationalism, mythomania, hate, propaganda...
But now leave the topic to continue and work whith yourself !
Keep it real - Peace !

iapodos
06-09-10, 14:28
- And what do you want to say whith these genetics what you mention always ?!


- The haplogruop isn't a nation. So, our race is extract of cultures and languages of all Mediterranean. You have evidence from our language in the establishment of cultures in Egypt, Middle east, Caucasus, Greece, Italy...


So we were the first who inhabits Balkans and Europe after Ice Age, so that makes us autochthon here, like a european race too, not only arfrican, arabian, middle eastern, or mediterrean.
Pay attention to ancient writters or Brittanica when they say: "Albanians(sons of the eagle) whith pre-helenic history" but I'm sure that doesn't means something to you, because you are captured from your pseudo-nationalism, mythomania, hate, propaganda...


So as I understand you are the "race" which first came to Balkan. Was it before amoebs appeared in Universe or later?

I am not sure that people on this forum are so enthusiastic to read all this nationalistic crap.

Besir Bajrami
06-09-10, 19:14
So as I understand you are the "race" which first came to Balkan. Was it before amoebs appeared in Universe or later?


Hahaha... :laughing:
No, that's was only before south slavs and you dont have to be offendet about this.
Otherwice and you (south slavs) are autochthon in some way in Illyrian (Balkan) peninsula (after the expulsion of a part of the Illyrians in the south), but only after the VI century ;)

Keep it real - Peace !

^ lynx ^
29-09-10, 02:52
Let's focus on the topic, please.

Albanien
10-01-11, 04:25
I know Greeks say it's Greek, and they can't stand that Ethnic Albanians liberated their country since they don't like them, and Greeks and Albanians were like brothers before the Ottoman War, especially the Orthodox community, but Fustanella is not Greek, it's Albanian. Greeks adopted it from the Arvanite (Albanians) that immigrated to Greece during Ottoman war. The Greeks made it their national costume in honor of Arvanite Markos Botsaris. who liberated Greece from Ottomans. Albanians were called Arvanite by Greeks in the middle ages. While Albanians called themselves Arbereshe. Today you can still find Albanian communities (Arbereshe) in Southern-Italy that escaped from the war Ottoman War, even Skanderbegs family. Fustan (fistan) means dress in Albanian.

It's interesting because Celts lived next to Illyrians and Thracians and even intermarried them, traded culture etc. Allot of Celtic tribes were Illyrianized. and even allied with Illyrians in battles.

Edwin E Jacques in his book, the Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric time to the present mentions the close connection between Albanians and Scots:

''The Arnaouts, or Albanese, struck me forcibly by their resemblance to the highlanders of Scotland, their very mountains, the kilt though white, the spare active form, their dialect Celtic in sound, and their hardy habits all carried me back...'' then Edwin Writes, ''So would their fierce interfamily blood feuds, and their goatskin or pigskin bagpipes softened with warm water and oil, whose gay, flutelike melody was accompanied by a low drone quite that of the Scottish highland bagpipe music''

Albanien
10-01-11, 05:03
Albanians does not belong nor to dinaric race nor to dinaric haplotype. It is mostly very short people, totaly oposite of tall Montenegrins beside them. That difference is so obvious that every Yugoslav, only by physical appearance, could recognize Albanian. I lived among Albanians for a very long period, and I am telling what I saw.
Also, as far I know there is no any kind of scientific proof that Albanians have anything in common with Illyrians, nor in language, nor in archeological findings.That Illyromania was part of Albanian national revival, the same way as it was used in Croatia with Illyrian movement.

As far as I know, Albanian Gegs are genetically Europe's tallest people together with Montenigrins. I know you're gonna say Dutch and Norwegians are but Dutch and Norwegians have become tall through better nutrion. in the 19th century Dutch and Scandinavians were known to be very short but this changed through nutrion, which plays a major role. I am Geg and every male in my family is tall. my grandfather was like 7foot. And most of the short Albanians I know are the ones that started lifting weights at the age of 14.

George Fred Williams writes in his book, the Albanians, that Montenigrins, Albanians and Bosnians are Europes tallest people.

And funny, how you compare ancient civilization with modern ones.. which you really can't, because even the Norwegians, descendants of Vikings are today quite different looking than them, and Norwegians today are taller.

iapodos
10-01-11, 14:32
As far as I know, Albanian Gegs are genetically Europe's tallest people together with Montenigrins.
As far I know, Albanians which live in Kosovo are predominantly Gegs and I haven't seen a lot of tall people there and I have lived in Kosovo for three years. Even the Montenegrins which lived around Skadar lake and close to Albanian border are much smaller than Montenegrins from Old Herzegovina.
Howewer, South Slavs and Albanians(especially Gegs) are linguisticaly and geneticaly two totally different worlds. I was just saying that it is obvious from the first look...

Albanien
16-01-11, 08:23
As far I know, Albanians which live in Kosovo are predominantly Gegs and I haven't seen a lot of tall people there and I have lived in Kosovo for three years. Even the Montenegrins which lived around Skadar lake and close to Albanian border are much smaller than Montenegrins from Old Herzegovina. Being tall has allot to do with nutrition. Why else have the dutch gone from being the smallest to the tallest, according to some sources. Albanian Gegs are part of the Dinaric race, especially the Northern Albanians, Malesort, And most of western Kosovo. Albania has the highest Dinaric Alps, with Maja Jezerce reaching it's peak.
''Maja Jezercë (Albanian: Maja Jezercë, meaning 'lake ridge'; Serbian: Језерски врх, Jezerski vrh) is the highest point of the Prokletije and the entire Dinaric Alps, standing at 2,694 m (8,839 ft) AMSL.'' And not every Bosnian or Serb looks like Dinars because not everyone is. I have seen many Albanians who look Dinaric. I know what Dinaric looks like, and many Bosnians and Serbs are not Dinaric. This is a real Dinaric



You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 10 posts or more.



Howewer, South Slavs and Albanians(especially Gegs) are linguisticaly and geneticaly two totally different worlds. I was just saying that it is obvious from the first look... Again, wrong. Of all the languages in Europe Albanian is most related to Balto-Slavic and Germanic. And Both Serbs and Bosnians, speak Croatian, not Serbian. I call it Croatian. And I know many Bosnians who could pass as Albanians any day. Haplogroups do not define race either lol. Just because you're for example EV-13 does not mean you're Egyptian, Berber or Somalian/Ehtiopian. Coz, I know an Albanian girl she did genetic test and she was EV-13 but in appereance she looks Germanic. Haplogroups doesn't mean anything, only useful to find your ancestors. The way you look is the way you've adopted to the region you live in. therefor Northern-Albanians are Dinaric, and funny how you say (especially Gegs) coz of all the Albanians Gegs would be the ones closest to South Slavs since they live next to them. Tosks live next to Greeks. Greece is very high in J2 and EV-13, both high in Albanian population too. the rest of Greece is R1a (Slavic) which proves Farheimers theory ''there are two types of Greeks, Albanians and Slavs''
The Arvanite settlements in Greece got many Greeks Albanized. and many Greeks are of Albanian descent.

Albanien
16-01-11, 08:30
Funny because not so long time ago I met a Polish friend and we found so many words in Polish that are the same in Albanian. for example Kurva, which means whore.

Albanien
16-01-11, 08:40
Balto Slavic speakers lived next to Thracians, Dacians and also Celts.

There are many words in Albanian which are the same in Romanian, as Romanian is latinized Dacian.

There are also many similarities between Albanian and Irish (Q-Celtic)

And there are also many similarities between Albanian and Croatian.

Elias2
16-01-11, 17:15
I know Greeks say it's Greek, and they can't stand that Ethnic Albanians liberated their country since they don't like them, and Greeks and Albanians were like brothers before the Ottoman War, especially the Orthodox community, but Fustanella is not Greek, it's Albanian. Greeks adopted it from the Arvanite (Albanians) that immigrated to Greece during Ottoman war. The Greeks made it their national costume in honor of Arvanite Markos Botsaris. who liberated Greece from Ottomans. Albanians were called Arvanite by Greeks in the middle ages. While Albanians called themselves Arbereshe. Today you can still find Albanian communities (Arbereshe) in Southern-Italy that escaped from the war Ottoman War, even Skanderbegs family. Fustan (fistan) means dress in Albanian.

It's interesting because Celts lived next to Illyrians and Thracians and even intermarried them, traded culture etc. Allot of Celtic tribes were Illyrianized. and even allied with Illyrians in battles.

Edwin E Jacques in his book, the Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric time to the present mentions the close connection between Albanians and Scots:

''The Arnaouts, or Albanese, struck me forcibly by their resemblance to the highlanders of Scotland, their very mountains, the kilt though white, the spare active form, their dialect Celtic in sound, and their hardy habits all carried me back...'' then Edwin Writes, ''So would their fierce interfamily blood feuds, and their goatskin or pigskin bagpipes softened with warm water and oil, whose gay, flutelike melody was accompanied by a low drone quite that of the Scottish highland bagpipe music''

The dress was adopted by greeks as a sign of resistance to the ottoman authorities. Arvinites were very helpfull in establishing greece in the 1820's :good_job: Today the decendants of arvanites identify themselfs as greeks and are sometimes offended when you call them albanian. It seems that greeks and albanians are geniticaly very similar, this would support the idea that albanians are decendend from illyrians, natives to the balkans, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that the language and culture are Illyrian. Language and culture can be surplanted on a native group of people by the outside ruling elite (see the turks as an example, mostly natives to anatolia but religion and language was brought from central asia). The distinctiveness of the albanian language tells me that it developed after the ottoman conquests, considering it has little influence from its traditional neighboors. Where it got its influences from I don't know and can only guess.

Elias2
16-01-11, 17:39
Greece is very high in J2 and EV-13, both high in Albanian population too. the rest of Greece is R1a (Slavic) which proves Farheimers theory ''there are two types of Greeks, Albanians and Slavs''
The Arvanite settlements in Greece got many Greeks Albanized. and many Greeks are of Albanian descent.

You can look at the genetic similarities of greeks and albanians in many ways. You can see it as;

a. greeks and albanians are both native to the balkans and therefore have similar genetics, outside influences are very small.

b. Greeks are really albanians

c. Albanians are really greeks.

And you could argue each point untill the sun explodes :confused2:, and really for both b and c, it has to do with culture more than anything.

iapetoc
16-01-11, 19:38
your approach is wrong

1 fustanella comes from turkish Fistan
or from ancient greek poys means feet

2 illyria is a greek name
as troy
it was illyros who invade in illyria,
and for greeks illyria is little north lissos lezh not dalmatia, simply the same between E and I2a2

3 according thoukidides 1 Greek language was thyrrsenian also name as etrouscan also as troyan also as thracian,

4 according herodotus thracians were the most numerical people,

5 dardani were illyro thracians

6 the 3 myceneans 1 myceane in greece 2 the mysian in troy 3 the , moesian in romania gives us a coonection of E,

7 the j2 is the cycladetic the thessalian the minoan the Tosk albanian big ratio in albania,

8 the megalithic structures in balkans probably were done by E-V13 carriers

9 the possibility that illyros invade illyria before the change of language gives the explanation,
cause when illyros went away kadmeia cadmeia then IE language enter europe,
now the fact that E-V13 is continental and J2 in sea also is according with the approach that albanian language has the fewest words about sea (inland people)

10 the dardani were classified in semi thracian semi illyrian
although epirus and central south greece was greco-thrasian
leads us to a conlusion that dardani E were cut from rest E of greeks for years
and in peace era like romani and byzantine reunified in illyria,
besides the fact that greeks of epidamnus fight with illyrians of scodret vs romans leads to connection for both, the albanization or greekolization of area until today is very strange,
besides both part were the same until the betrayal of balaba pasa

11 geg also gugu in moesia also gygy in lydia comes from achaic gag or aga

hetitopersian
achamenides

greek
agamenides
but achaic nation

acha aga achaic -> ai=e -> agek gek is the greek aproach and geg the albanian aproach the greeks is nation the was given IE by R same as latium that is why we have many common there,
But latium is full of J2 meaning that E+J make greek E+J was illyria and only dardania as cutten from rest was full E and low J, probably j is naval people

personaly i believe that E is a pre-Greek and proto-Greek as j2 and Dardania as cutten from south E via IE invasion and lingua change kept mostly E since away from sea

RMEMBER GUGU LIVES IN KONKAIONION

besides a lot of gegs non muslim survived in moecia dacia and in albania before
the similarity of daco=moesian in language is very big
the fact is that after 1912 king zuzu and later hotza organize a gothering of muslims gegs in kossyfopedio which gives the big E, not that dardania E is a sprink of genetigal but a gother from diaspora of gegs, also the same in greece, when greek gegs moved in greece

Albanien
17-01-11, 13:50
The dress was adopted by greeks as a sign of resistance to the ottoman authorities. Arvinites were very helpfull in establishing greece in the 1820's Today the decendants of arvanites identify themselfs as greeks and are sometimes offended when you call them albanian. It seems that greeks and albanians are geniticaly very similar, this would support the idea that albanians are decendend from illyrians, natives to the balkans, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that the language and culture are Illyrian. Language and culture can be surplanted on a native group of people by the outside ruling elite (see the turks as an example, mostly natives to anatolia but religion and language was brought from central asia). The distinctiveness of the albanian language tells me that it developed after the ottoman conquests, considering it has little influence from its traditional neighboors. Where it got its influences from I don't know and can only guess.

Greeks did not use the Fustanella until 19th century, Albanians are recorded using it since 14th century. Fustan/Fistan means dress in Albanian. In Turkish it also means the same but we are talking about Albanian dress here not Turkish. Arvanite is the greek word for Albanian/Arbereshe. Greeks refered to Albanians as Arvanite during middle ages. Therefor they are clearly Albanians. In 19th century Greek children were taught in school that Albanians are their brothers, maybe we are, but R1a is also very common in Greece. And I know many Arvanite, they are orthodox Christians and are proud of their Albanian origin, because Arvanite means Albanian, not Greek. Sorry. One I know works as a school teacher and studies Albanian history. Many tell me how they get mugged for saying they are Albanians in Greece. Anyway, the war that happened in 19th century between Souliote and Ottomans, was more of a war between Albanian Orthodox Christians and Albanian Ottoman leader Ali Pasha, who tried to make them surrender. the Albanian Christians refused to convert to Islam and fled to their greek Orthodox brothers to help them.

As for Albanian language devoloping after Ottoman conquest? This is impossible. Albanians have written and spoken in Greek, Latin and even Croatian but we always speak Albanian when we communicate with other Albanians. Thus, we have used everyone elses language to write etc. because we have been under many others regime, Byzantine, Ottoman, Yugoslavia etc. but we always kept our language and culture even though we were influenced by others. Albanians are also recorded fighting alongside Greeks against Arabs in Sicilia. And Skanderbeg spoke to his people in Albanian, he wrote in Greek and Latin but never in Albanian, he only spoke to Albanians in Albanian. Because Albanians were under Byzantine rule and Greek and Latin were the main languages, Greek was like todays English, therefor Albanian became a minority language overshadowed by Greek and Latin, and was never really written down until later, but it never died out. You can read more from Albanian priest and historian Marlin Barleti's book about Skanderbeg which was written in latin, in the 15th century. Illyrians wrote in Greek to and were clearly influenced by Greeks, but they had their own language at the same time.

But I see what you mean. Just like Bosnians and Serbs who are linguistically Slavs but not genetically. Just like I could say since you speak Greek doesn't mean you're ancient greek. Anyway, in my opinion everything points out albanians either Illyrian or ancient greeks (ancient-macedonians) Well as for language everywhere on the internet I search about Albanian language I get ''Most linguists agree that Albanian might have developed from either Illyrian or Thracian, or these two might have formed a sprachbund Thraco-Illyrian'' like the Dardanians, who were probably Thraco-Illyrians. as for Albanian culture, I don't know what Illyrian culture is like, but clearly Albanians share allot with ancient greek culture, and we still have ancient greek gods, Zevs (zot), afrodite (aferdite) etc.

if I2a is Illyrian, Bosnians would be more genetically related to Greeks, because these clearly influenced each other, unless Illyrians were genetically different from region to region, like Dalmatia (I2a) and the South (EV-13)

@iapetoc Looking at Bosnians, they are linguistically Slavs but not genetically. Same could be said about Albanians. Illyrians were sea people, ok, Albanian language is not sea and is not related to greek ok, still doesn't mean anything because if you look at Bosnians, they are linguistically and genetically different. Same could be said about Albanians, maybe they are Illyrianized Greeks? Or maybe Illyrians and Greeks were the same. Because everything I have found about Albanian language is that it's either Thracian or Illyrian.. if you can find something else, then please tell me. And genetically Albanians = related to Greeks.

Elias2
17-01-11, 17:15
Well we know there were dorian settlements along the albanian coast due to archeaological findings, there are also other non greek finding aswell. But the thing about illyria is that it extended from mid way in albania into now serbia, bosnia, croatia, so you would think that modern day yugoslavs would have kept some words, or maybe had similar archeaological findings, or just maybe the slav language just flat out dominated.

The reason I think that the albanians language developed in the ottoman era was that the past three eras for the region of albania was dominated by latin and greek. It just seems odd that over the past the two thousand years when greek was spreading to be the lingua franca, then latin, then medival greek again, albania kept its language identity when all others didn't. Its a little too far fetched for a history student, considering albanian is a very different language then the rest of albanias direct neighbours, that they would have incorpotate more latin and greek words into their language over the hundreds of years. And the fact albanian didn't have a written language untill what, the modern albanian nation was formed, and even then they didn't know what alphabet to use, arabic, or latin, which they chose latin eventually.

I think there is more to the history of albania during the Ottoman years then we know of. Genetically, albanians are closer to greeks than the traditional 'illyrian' peoples of croatia, bosnia, and serbia. We know of the dorians settlements, the greek arcehaological findings, this leads me to believe that albanians are, or used to be, greeks in some way but changed do to religious and cultural differences that developed over the years from outside influences. This isn't a bad hypothesis. Much like how modern day bosnians see themselves differently from croats and serbs when in reality, they are just islamized croats and serbs.

anyways cheers :good_job:

iapetoc
17-01-11, 18:03
what dorian and bullshit propaganda

arbanites were greeks
fustanella is greek from πους =feet δενω->δεναλι = bound
πουσδεναλι,
besides the language you are given

shqiptar = ish GYPTAR from egypt

sghqiptars learn the language from arbanites of arber who welcome you
and you genocide them
Suliotes were greeks
as Sulimiotes is peloponese
what bullshit who are talking
suliomiotes as suliotes were illyrogreeks NOT SHQIPTARS
YOU EVEN MAKE KASTRIOTI AN EGYPTIAN ALTHOUGH HIS FAMILY COMES FROM GREEK MAKEDONIA
PRINCIPI EMATHEIA ET CASTURIA
shut with your bullshit propaganda

Elias2
18-01-11, 04:18
Who are you talking too iapetoc?

iapetoc
18-01-11, 10:04
they know who

Albanien
18-01-11, 16:16
You are really brainwashed. Arbereshe or Arvanite was what Albanians (Shqiptars) called themselves before Skanderbeg died. When he died we changed to Shqiptar which means Shqiperia = Land of the eagles.

Kastrioti was 100% Albanian, his mother Vojsava, Albanian princess from Western Macedonia, his father from Diber (Northern-Albania), border to Macedonia.

Kastrioti allied only with Albanians and a Montenigrian family, never with Greeks. He was Catholic, like major North-Albanians. He founded the league of lezhe and gathered all Albanian princes from Kosovo, Macedonia, Albania and Montenegro. He allied with Leke DUkagjini, Albanian prince from Kosovo


Lekë Dukagjini (1410–1481) was an Albanian prince who fought against the Ottoman Empire. A contemporary of Skanderbeg, Dukagjini is known for the Kanuni i Lekë Dukagjinit, a code of law instituted in northern Albania.

(I can't post links yet)

Leke Dukagjini was founder of the Albanian Kanun. Kastrioti also allied with Albanian preist and historian Marin Barleti


Marin Barleti (Latin: Marinus Barletius, Italian: Marino Barlezio; c. 1450, Shkodër - c. 1520). Barleti was an Albanian historian and Catholic priest. He is considered as the first Albanian historian, especially because of his biography on Skanderbeg, translated in many languages in the 16th to the 18th centuries.


The prologue establishes this sombre framework, but as soon as the author begins the description of his hero, the melancholy present pales into insignificance against the excitement of heroic valour and victorious exploits. But the point of departure is sad. Just imagine what would happen if Alexander the Great returned! Or Pyrrhus, who in his day fought so brilliantly against the Romans! They would hardly be able to recognize their country, but would leave again full of contempt, because it was no longer a home of freedom as in their day. The present squalor is so overwhelming that the author fears he will be unable to convince his readers that Albania was glorious not only in antiquity, but also during the immediately preceding period. Freedom reigned supreme, where now slavery has spread. In those times the whole world looked to Epirus in admiration, where now the only question is whether fortune will never weary of plaguing the country.

-Mina Skafte Jensen: Barleti-Skanderbeg

Barleti wrote a book about Skanderbeg and also wrote Albanians (Arbereshe) are EPIROTANS. mostly in his book he refers to Albanians as Epirotans, living in Kosovo, Macedonia and Albania. and that all these came from Epirus. Looking at Genetic studies and similarities between Albanians and Greeks, he was probably right. He also claimed Alexander the Great as Arbereshe hero, not Greek, and Skanderbeg used Alexanders helmet. If we are Greeks then we would call ourselves Greeks not Arbereshe or Albanian. and there is no such thing as Arbanitas, it's Arbereshe, greeks called us Arvanite. Skanderbeg nor any of these Albanians were never associated with Greeks, lol.. never does Barleti mention Greeks in his book, he only refers to Epirotans/Macedonians as Albanians.

Congratulations iapetoc, you just let your insecurities out, and claimed all Albanians as Greeks, also claim Albanian history as Greek. And there is absolutely no historical evidence to what you just said. Arberia was middle age Albania, not Greece. Arberia was modern day Albania, Epirus and western Macedonia, Kosovo was also populated by Arbereshe of course but it was under Serbian/Montenigrian regime. Arberia, never Greece, if we are Greeks we would call ourselves Greeks, but you Greeks change sides when it suits you, now you are calling every Albanian for Greek. and Albanian language is not related to Greek.

What this idiot, Iapetoc, is saying is that modern-Albanians are not the middle-age Arbereshe/Arvanite, but he says they are Greeks.

During Ottoman time Albanians (Arbereshe) fled to Italy, also Kastrioti's family fled to Italy. Now let's see if these people are greeks or Albanians. (I can't post links)


The Arbëreshë are a linguistic and ethnic Albanian minority community living in southern Italy, especially the regions of Apulia, Basilicata, Molise, Calabria and Sicily.[2] They settled in Southern Italy in the 15th to 18th century AD in several waves of migrations, following the death of the Albanian national hero Giorgio Kastriota Skanderbeg and the gradual conquest of Albania and throughout the Byzantine Empire by the Ottoman Turks. The Arbëreshë have their own distinct culture and have been able to preserve the original Albanian identity[3] over the centuries. Over the centuries the arbëreshë have managed to maintain and develop their identities greek-Albanian, thanks to their stubbornness and cultural value exercised mainly by the two religious communities of the Eastern Rite Byzantine Catholics, based in Calabria, the "Collegio Corsini" (1732) and then "Corsini-Sant'Adriano" in 1794 and Sicily in the "Seminario Greco-Albanese of Palermo" (1735) then transferred to Piana degli Albanesi in 1945. Today, most of the fifty arbëreshë communities still preserve the Byzantine Catholics belonging to the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church of Eastern Rite. They belong to two eparchies: to Lungro for Arbëreshë of southern Italy, and that of Piana degli Albanesi for Arbëreshë of Sicily.


Prior to the Ottoman invasion of Albania, the native people in the area of Albania were all called Arbëreshë. After some were forced[citation needed] out of their homeland to Italy, these Italian-born Albanians continued to use the term Arbëresh whilst those in Albania called themselves Shqiptarë (compare the Albanian word Shqip, present in the local name for the country and the language).


"Albanese" or "Albanesi" which occurs in several of the Italian names above is the Italian language word for "Albanian" or "Albanians", respectively. ("Albanese" is also a common surname among the Arbëresh and their overseas descendants.)

Arbereshe and Arvanite (THE SAME THING)

Only Greeks called Albanians Arvanite, Albanians called themselves Arbereshe, Italians called us Albanese.

Arbereshe are Albanians that left Albania during Ottoman invasion, and are still Catholics, while We Albanians (Arbereshe) in Albania started calling ourselves Shqipetar in honor of Skanderbeg, so two different words, the same people. There are only 250,000 Arbereshe in Italy, and probably 100,000 thousand in Greece today.


The word Shqiptár is also used in a few villages of Thrace, where Arvanites migrated from the mountains of Pindus during the 19th centur

And I know many Arvanites that live in Greece, they are all Albanians, with Albanian names, only they are Orthodox Christians, I also know many Arbereshe in italy that are proud Albanians here is a list:


* Giorgio Basta (1544–1607), aristocrat, general and military strategist in the Holy Roman Empire.
* Lekë Matrënga (1560–1619), priest, one of the first writers in Albanian language.
* Pope Clement XI (1649–1721), born Giovanni Francesco Albani, Pope from 1700 -1721.
* Jeronim de Rada (1814–1903), poet, folklorist and Albanian nationalist.
* Anton Santori (1819–1894), writer, playwright and poet of the Albanian National Awakening.
* Francesco Crispi (1819–1901), 19th century Italian politician, Prime Minister between 1887–1891 and again between 1893-1896.
* Zef Serembe (1844–1901), lyric poet.
* Zef Skiroi (1865–1925), poet, linguist, publicist and folklorist.
* Antonio Gramsci (1891–1937), Italian philosopher, writer, politician and political theorist.
* Costantino Mortati (1891–1985), statesman and contributor to the Italian Constitution.
* Giuseppe T. Gangale (1898–1978), Italian philosopher, philologist and poet.
* Enrico Cuccia (1907–2000), banker, founder of Mediobanca and important figure in Italian post-war industrial reconstruction.
* Stefano Rodotà (1933), politician.
* Joseph J. DioGuardi (b. 1940), American politician.
* Kara DioGuardi (b. 1970), singer, songwriter and American Idol judge.
* Claudia Conserva (b. 1974), Chilean TV hostess and actress.
* Amalia Granata (b. 1981), Argentine model.
* Ernesto Sábato (b. 1911), Argentine writer.
* Regis Philbin (b. 1931), American media personality and occasional actor and singer.
* John Cena (b. 1977), American Professional wrestler

Albanien
18-01-11, 16:18
@Elias2, I agree with you.

Cheers!

Albanien
18-01-11, 16:24
Well, when it comes to religion Albanian Catholics are more like Latins. I mean if you look at their names you could think they are Italians, while Muslims are more Turkish surnames because Ottomans formed clans and changed them in to Turkish surnames. so all Christians that were converted were changed their surname into Turkish.

Albanien
18-01-11, 16:26
That is why Pasha, an Albanian nationalist said, ''Albanians wake up, you are Latins, Greeks and Turks by religion, wake up, the religion of Albanians is Albanianism''

This was way before Enver Hoxha, Albanian national awakening started even during Ottoman war.

Jeronim de Rada
[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeronim_de_Rada#cite_note-0) (in Italian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_language): Girolamo de Rada 1814 - 1903) is a writer of Italo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_literature)-Albanian literature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_literature),[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeronim_de_Rada#cite_note-1) who was the foremost figure of the Albanian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania) nationalist movement in nineteenth-century Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy).Albanian nationalist (Arbereshe from Italy). see the Arbereshe in Italy are still proud Albanians, and there are many nationalists among them like Jeronim de Rada, I also know many Arvanite from Greece who are nationalists. So who are you to call these people Greeks or Italians? Let them decide what they wannabe called, and clearly they are Albanians, as for fustanella, it's Albanian kilt adopted by Greeks from Markos Bocari, no doubt.

Here is a youtube video of Arbereshe in Italy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE5C6yvDCBk

I can't see any Greeks, only Albanians.

Most Arbereshe are still proud Albanians, while the Arvanite, it is said that they have been assimilated in to Greek population, this is not quite true, the Albanians in Greece have been mugged and beaten up for saying they are Albanians, that's why many are scared to say they are Albanians. Because I personally know some Albanians in Greece. Also the Chams were murdered by Greeks. How can we be brothers with such people?

The Ottoman and Slavic invasion should of never happened!

But I have to say Byzantine Empire also ruined Albanians, because from the North (Catholics) we spoke and wrote in Latin, and we had Latin names, if you looked at our names you could think we were Italians, while from the South we spoke and wrote Greek and were Orthodox Christians.

Albanien
18-01-11, 16:31
-Forum Error

Albanien
18-01-11, 17:02
There is something wrong, I meant to only post once*

Elias2
18-01-11, 22:25
That is why Pasha, an Albanian nationalist said, ''Albanians wake up, you are Latins, Greeks and Turks by religion, wake up, the religion of Albanians is Albanianism''

This was way before Enver Hoxha, Albanian national awakening started even during Ottoman war.

Jeronim de RadaAlbanian nationalist (Arbereshe from Italy). see the Arbereshe in Italy are still proud Albanians, and there are many nationalists among them like Jeronim de Rada, I also know many Arvanite from Greece who are nationalists. So who are you to call these people Greeks or Italians? Let them decide what they wannabe called, and clearly they are Albanians, as for fustanella, it's Albanian kilt adopted by Greeks from Markos Bocari, no doubt.

Here is a youtube video of Arbereshe in Italy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE5C6yvDCBk

I can't see any Greeks, only Albanians.

Most Arbereshe are still proud Albanians, while the Arvanite, it is said that they have been assimilated in to Greek population, this is not quite true, the Albanians in Greece have been mugged and beaten up for saying they are Albanians, that's why many are scared to say they are Albanians. Because I personally know some Albanians in Greece. Also the Chams were murdered by Greeks. How can we be brothers with such people?

The Ottoman and Slavic invasion should of never happened!

But I have to say Byzantine Empire also ruined Albanians, because from the North (Catholics) we spoke and wrote in Latin, and we had Latin names, if you looked at our names you could think we were Italians, while from the South we spoke and wrote Greek and were Orthodox Christians.

This is a very albanian centric point of view, there are alot of different peoples who wished things turned out differently, but they didn't. I think the question now is how we can move foward, and I don't think ultra-nationalism is the answer. If I were an albanian living in albania... or kosovo I guess, I would be worried about reforming said countries to get aligned with EU standards, because right now there is alot of corruption in both countries. This will not only improve the lives of albanians but for the region to do business as well.

LeBrok
19-01-11, 05:01
Amen, brother Elias

iapetoc
19-01-11, 13:14
the albanian canun is also a Greek kanon κανων and means law we can find also in minor asia in Kulla and even to pontic greeks,
is the ancient law of families,
besides that law is also in crete but it is named as Vendeta (revenge)

there is another thred also about albania,

what do you believe, the albanians came from greece to dardania or fron sicily?

the arvanitet knew that they were greeks, and return back to avoid the changes in albania,
most arvanitet are tosk, and some gegs, and were at Kastrioti army,
but the betrayal of baraba pasha, and the religion change and the hunt of albanians push them south,
besides all arvanitet were with ali pasa but the genocide of suliotet, prove them that the same happened to kastrioti is going to happened to them,
so they abandoned ali pasa,
besides arvanitet stay in the old,
it is the albanians that change, first with serbs, then with normands, and last with turks,

besides Ducagkini are also 2 families living in greece, and were at kastrioti army

Garrick
22-01-11, 22:36
The custom of wearing fustanella (kilt) can be explained as the kilt worn in Egypt thousands of years BC.

www.kingtutshop.com/freeinfo/Ancient-Egyptian-Clothes.htm (http://www.kingtutshop.com/freeinfo/Ancient-Egyptian-Clothes.htm)

“The ancient Egyptians made their own clothes from what their environment and nature gave them. Egypt has mostly a hot climate thus the use of clothes reflect material that is lightweight to suit this type of climate. The ancient Egyptians thus used clothes made of linen. The ancient Egyptians both men and women wore linen clothes all throughout the hot weather. The men wore short skirts around their waists called kilts, while the women wore straight fitting dresses with straps on their shoulders. The wealthy men wore pleated kilts, and the older men wore a longer kilt. When doing hard work, men wore a loin cloth, and women wore a short skirt. Children usually ran around nude during the summer months. Linen is a fabric made from plant fibers. The plant fiber comes from flax plants that grow abundantly along the banks of the Nile. “


Kilts were of various sizes and shapes depending on the position in society, era, etc.

http://www.scienceclarified.com/scitech/images/lsea_0001_0001_0_img0008.jpg

http://www.costumes.org/history/egypt/egyptkretchmer.jpg

Part of the Balkan population (carriers of haplogroup E) is from Egypt.

Albanien
07-02-11, 10:42
the albanian canun is also a Greek kanon κανων and means law we can find also in minor asia in Kulla and even to pontic greeks,
is the ancient law of families,
besides that law is also in crete but it is named as Vendeta (revenge)

there is another thred also about albania,

what do you believe, the albanians came from greece to dardania or fron sicily?

the arvanitet knew that they were greeks, and return back to avoid the changes in albania,
most arvanitet are tosk, and some gegs, and were at Kastrioti army,
but the betrayal of baraba pasha, and the religion change and the hunt of albanians push them south,
besides all arvanitet were with ali pasa but the genocide of suliotet, prove them that the same happened to kastrioti is going to happened to them,
so they abandoned ali pasa,
besides arvanitet stay in the old,
it is the albanians that change, first with serbs, then with normands, and last with turks,

besides Ducagkini are also 2 families living in greece, and were at kastrioti army

Arvanite is the Greek medieval word for ''ALBANIAN'' or simply ''Arbereshe''
This name changed to Shqiptar after Skanderbegs death. It has something to do with the eagle. Turks called Albanians Arnaut. And don't give me bullshit about Arnaut means the ones who never returned lol. Arnaut, Arvanite, Arbereshe.. same meaning.

Arvanite are normal South Albanians, Tosks, of Orthodox Religion.

Kastrioti and Dukagjini were not Tosks, they were Gegs. So was Marin Barleti. They were Catholics.

Leke Dukagjini was Albanian from Kosovo, not Greece or Albania. Kastrioti gathered all Albanians from Macedon, Epirus, Kosovo and Montenegro to fight Turks. Dukagjini was his successor and the founder of the Albanian Kanun. Barleti in his book called Albanians for Epirotans, and Kastrioti as Prince of Epirus (Prince of Albania)

The Kanun was founded by Albanians, in 15th century, and it's still used in Catholic countries. I never heard it was used in Greece, because the Kanun is not used in South Albania, it's only used among Albanians in Montenegro, Kosovo and North Albania, because the Kanun has a northern origin.

Albanien
07-02-11, 10:44
the albanian canun is also a Greek kanon κανων and means law we can find also in minor asia in Kulla and even to pontic greeks,
is the ancient law of families,
besides that law is also in crete but it is named as Vendeta (revenge)

there is another thred also about albania,

what do you believe, the albanians came from greece to dardania or fron sicily?

the arvanitet knew that they were greeks, and return back to avoid the changes in albania,
most arvanitet are tosk, and some gegs, and were at Kastrioti army,
but the betrayal of baraba pasha, and the religion change and the hunt of albanians push them south,
besides all arvanitet were with ali pasa but the genocide of suliotet, prove them that the same happened to kastrioti is going to happened to them,
so they abandoned ali pasa,
besides arvanitet stay in the old,
it is the albanians that change, first with serbs, then with normands, and last with turks,

besides Ducagkini are also 2 families living in greece, and were at kastrioti army

lol, half of Greek Attica is of Albanian origin. Athens is an Albanian city.

The Greeks in South Albania, himare, that speak Greek are really Albanians. Just a fact.

And you wouldn't call them ''Arvanite'' if they were Greeks, because Arvanite is what Greeks called Albanians. Fact. Albanians called themselves Arbereshe and even Epirotan, later this name changed to Shqiptar. While the Albanians in Italy still use Arbereshe.

The Albanians in Italy also use the two headed eagle, they are fully Albanians, only your ignorance here is the problem.. because if you were smart enough to Search up Arbereshe you would see.

But you are maybe too ignorant to realize that Arbereshe means Albanian? and not Greek.. you are too ignorant to realize that Arvanite also means Albanian not Greek..

Arber, Arbereshe, this is what we called us later Shqiptar.. here the Albanians in Italy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE5C6yvDCBk

There are many Arbereshe that are still proud of their Albanian origin, like Joe Diguardio and he is even an Albanian politician in the US.

But I think you live in a fairytale. Your hate against Albanians is so strong that you can't admit the truth. The fact that you actually believe that ''Shqiptars'' committed genocide on the Arvanite/Arbereshe shows how crazy you are. when we actually were the same people, but we just changed our name.

But hey, first learn English, do more re-search and please turn off disney channel.

Because you can actually even find Albanians in Ukraina that escaped from the Ottoman Empire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFMq9v3LVgU

Are they Greeks too? haha

Nice try.

iapetoc
09-02-11, 21:47
yes offcourse,

Suliotet left to bulgaria and return to Greece

keep dreaming man keep dreaming

you are full of wrath cause nobody believes you,

you even do not accept that Greeks and Albanians have same blood,

your eyes are only to make albanian everything that is Greek

Garrick
09-02-11, 22:56
yes offcourse,

Suliotet left to bulgaria and return to Greece

keep dreaming man keep dreaming

you are full of wrath cause nobody believes you,

you even do not accept that Greeks and Albanians have same blood,

your eyes are only to make albanian everything that is Greek

Iapetoc
There are differences, for example Dienekes, based on existing data, brought some conclusions about the J haplogroup among the Albanians, the possible age of the Albanian population, and more.

Also, among the Albanians were found E81, known as the "Berber marker", as well as rare haplogroup M78* found only in people beside the Nile in Egypt.

And so on., we'll all comment on the topic of Albanians, the Berbers and the movement of E bearers.

Besir Bajrami
11-02-11, 08:06
OMG Iapetoc !

How can you say something completely the opposite of the true, what is this poor propaganda ?! I think here are people who know even a little bit history of that region, and how can they can tolerate someone to speak in this way !

Fustanella is greek ?! when all the world knows that is an albanian traditional costume of the all Albanians, latter was in use only by Tosk Albanians(until today).
Search about Fustanella - http://www.google.com/#q=the%20Albanian%20fustanella%2C%20which%20was%20 adopted%20by%20the%20Greeks&hl=en&source=lnms&tbs=bks:1&psj=1&ei=n8ZUTeeoKY7CswaO593cBg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=6&ved=0CAsQ_AUoBQ&prmdo=1&fp=d46d7fcb6d497136 ...{"fustan"-dress in albanian (and in no other language); "funt/d"-the lower part of the dress; "an"-side (or the lower side of the dress - Fustanella), also fút (whith accent at "u"), is the name of that type of clothing, which we put forward at the bottom of the body, when we have to work something.... like freemasons today:)}...

Suliotes are greek ?!
"Both the Suliotes and Hydriotes were Albanians in blood, language, and customs. They were "Greeks" only in the sense that the Vlachs are "Greeks" — they belonged to the Orthodox Church.
The heroism and tenacity which both displayed as their normal opposition to the Turks deepened under Greek influence into a struggle for political liberty, have cast a lustre and a glory upon the whole war which ought by every law of historical justice to modify the judgment which civilisation has passed upon the Albanians. As the Christian Albanians have worked for the greater glory of the Hellenic idea, so the Mohamedan Albanians have contributed to such sympathy as the Turks can still command in the West." - Henry Noel Brailsford - Macedonia: Its Races and Their Future
Search about suliots: http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&prmdo=1&tbs=bks:1&q=suliots+albanian&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&psj=1&prmdo=1&fp=82a567adc72d263b (http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&prmdo=1&tbs=bks:1&q=suliots+albanian&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&psj=1&prmdo=1&fp=82a567adc72d263b)
Suli (Documentary, from todays greek themself): http://www.gazotube.com/nfjO9C0M9Hw.html
More about Suliotes: http://www.albpelasgian.com/uncategorized/suliots-and-their-epitome-sate-of-albania.html (http://www.albpelasgian.com/uncategorized/suliots-and-their-epitome-sate-of-albania.html)
...

Even Kastrioti is greek ?! - OMG this is... no comment!
Search about Castrioti: http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&prmdo=1&tbs=bks:1&q=Castrioti&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&psj=1&prmdo=1&fp=82a567adc72d263b (http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&prmdo=1&tbs=bks:1&q=Castrioti&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&psj=1&prmdo=1&fp=82a567adc72d263b)
{You have to make him greek, because you know that he was King od Epirus and Macedonia, like albanian(Illyro-Thracian) states, and disorientate your propaganda about Epir and Macedonia} ...The three Shkypetar States, Illyria, Epirus and Macedonia, rose against Rome…-“Albania, the foundling state of Europe”, Wadham Peacock 1914)
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=%E2%80%9CAlbania%2C+the+foundling+state+of+Europ e%E2%80%9D%2C+Wadham+Peacock+1914%29+++&btnG=Search+Books
...it appears that you attempt to protect the identity of controversy todays Greek, by attacking Albanian identity, as the oldest in the Balkans- " you know from where can come the answers and "attack is the best protection"!
With this approach, you explains very clearly how it is configured identity of the Greeks of today, given the lack of Albanian institutions to protect from appropriations.
In this way you todays greeks formed this new greek identity (Now for you every albanian is greek! albanian language is greek! albanian culture is greek!... than Arumuns or Vlach (Thracian descent, and as we know, Illyrians and Thracians had much affinity, that's why in albanian the word "Vlah" is "Brother"), a part of south slavs, orthodox mongols, egyptians, etiopians, gypsies... all are greeks ! ...but the antique glory, identity and pelasgic autochthony, you know that you can find only through albanians as the oldest in Balkans:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=223998&l=8c1a610d6b&id=100001133356751

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75670_147272005320577_100001133356751_223998_29716 62_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224000&id=100001133356751)


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224000&l=9a17dc3824&id=100001133356751
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75670_147272011987243_100001133356751_224000_72593 40_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=198452&id=100001133356751)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=198452&l=0de20886eb&id=100001133356751

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75700_141696295878148_100001133356751_198452_32918 84_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224057&id=100001133356751)


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224057&l=3e17c012b5&id=100001133356751

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/76907_147273168653794_100001133356751_224057_74521 19_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224002&id=100001133356751)


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224002&l=808b8b4bb5&id=100001133356751

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/75670_147272018653909_100001133356751_224002_13048 71_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224058&id=100001133356751)


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224058&l=2d43464068&id=100001133356751
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/76907_147273171987127_100001133356751_224058_44508 69_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187319&id=100001133356751)
...






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- It appears that with the same approach you formed the new greek nation. Here's the constitution of 1821 in Greece
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/168967_1852707323909_1427574150_2122262_1227707_n. jpg


Here is translated in english:
http://i55.tinypic.com/29qjyuu.jpg

...because there is clearly seen in what basis the Greek state was formed, thus clearly stating that the Greeks had no need to talk Greek, or to have Greek blood, enough was the religion (ie Orthodox) and this policy made possible the absorption (or assimilation) of many other ethnicities.(I want your respond for this above too)
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
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Haha even Arvanites are not Albanian ?!
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&prmdo=1&tbs=bks:1&q=arvanites+albanians&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&psj=1&prmdo=1&fp=82a567adc72d263b
Alban(ians) were call them self Arban (ians); Or Arvan in Greece; Arbresh in Italy; Arnaut in Turkye... but in all times they call them self Shqiptar (Skipetar), that means Shqip (Eagle) Shqiptar="Sons of the eagle"... ancient writers calls them Pelasgians... Romans calls them Illyrian.
I'm albanian and in my tradition are so many pelasgians, illyrians, thracians... tradition, which greeks dont have, my language is "a bridge" between the Greek and Latin language and and is considered the oldest of these (just like was considered pelasgian):http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247827&l=121558727c&id=100001133356751

This topic is about something more concrete but if you want to discuss about deeper things like the identity of albanians and new greeks, I can give you thousends of international scientific works, because albanians (whith surviving history) don't have their institutions for a long time, to protect their culture and identity from thievs like you. Anyway, we have strong roots that enabled us the existence until today.

Ok, let's start whith lesson 1:
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
I
- A school history of the great war by Albert E. McKinley - p.33
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=223999&l=089c04944d&id=100001133356751

- Discourses of Collective Identity in Central and Southeast Europe 1770–1945
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=250181&l=2bb88f57fb&id=100001133356751

The Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric times to the present
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211176&l=e6d3869968&id=100001133356751
...


II
Encyclopedia Britannica
- http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187419&l=d42c50fe96&id=100001133356751

- http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187139&l=067cf7e354&id=100001133356751
...


III
Encyclopedia of the Muslim World
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247814&l=d01242c974&id=100001133356751

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/164501_152257348155376_100001133356751_247814_6560 470_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247897&id=100001133356751)


...
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If you proceed whith your approach, than I'll have to prove you whith thousends international references from scientific studies, that talk deeper about albanians/pelasgians as pre=greek population and thousends of so call "pre-greek" words (or pelasgian words) that are translated in greek today, but are the same even today in albanian.

For Example:
pre greek(pelasgian)----greek<>albanian-----albanian (or pelasgian)

αμας amas------------imitera=nena------------ama, nena, ema...

αταρ-atar--------------tote-ateher--------------atar, ateher...

αυς-ais-----------------aftos=ai----------------ai, aj...

αναιρον-aneron--------oniro=enderr----------aneron, enderron...

αφαρ-afar--------------sti stigmi=ne cast -------afar, afer...

βασαι-vishe------------iselthise=vije-------------vishe, vijshe...

βαν--van--------------porevude-shkojn-----------van, vajten...

βαριον-barion--------provaton=deleve-----------barion, bariu...

βασκ-bask----------paralila porevute=ecin paralel--bask, bashk...

βη-vi----------------prevome=eci,vij-shkoj-----------------vi, vij...

βραχαι-vrahe------psofise=ngordhi------------vra, vrahe...

βριτος-britos-------etos=viti--Frank Bardhi=britmi pare=shtatori=fillimi i vitit.

βυσαι-vishe----------kripse-fshihe, mbuloje----veshje, vishe...

γαναι-gjane--------periptizi=afersisht--------gjane, ngjane...

γουνον-gjunon------gonatizi-gjunjezon-----gjunon, gjunon (geg)...

γραος-graos---------gjini-gra, grua---------graos, gra

διζα-dhiza-----------ekgs=dhia---------------dhiza, dhia

εικειν-ikin---------ipohorun=terhiqen--------ikin, iki...

εντυε-endie-------parasqevazi=endi,endje---endie...

ερδαι-erdhe-------elthe=erdhe--------------erdhe...

ετας-etas-----------patir=babai-------------etas, eti...

εβροεντα-evroenda--skotini=e errta----e vroenda, e vrejtura...

ευροπη-evropi-------skotini,qe hora tis dhisis=e errta edhe vendi i perendimit----------------------------------------evro- evront e erret...

ζει-zi------------------flegji-pervelon--------------zien, zi...

Ζωτεαττας-Zoteatas--Apolloni=Perendia---Zoteatas=Ati Zoti...

κιελλι-qielli--------------uranos=qielli-----------qielli, qielli...

κορτειν-kortin----------kurion=korrin-----------kortin, korrin...

κρειον-krion-------------vasilias=mbreti-----Krieon, Kryeja...

κρουναι-krune----------pigji=burim----------krune, krun-kroj...

μαλα-mala-----------ori=male---------------mala, male...

μενειν-menin-------orgjin-zemerimin-----menin, meni, merin... (This is the first word of Iliades)

πλαγαν-plagan-----------pligji=plage-----------plagan, plaga...

πραιναι=prene----------prionizi=sharron--------prene, pren...
etc, etc...

Or:
Illyrian..............................Albanian.... .................English:
atsar................................ acar .............................frost
ask.................................. ashkë ............................
kapa................................. kapa ............................catch
kekja................................ keqja ............................badly
nasor............................ nesër(nesra) .....................tomorow
apa................................... pa ..............................whithout
awalaka............................ flaka ..............................flame
laja.................................. lehje ...............................yelp
wrask......................... vras(rrah,lendoj) .................injure(beat)
stana.............................. shtaza .............................brute
matja.......................... matja,mas,mat .....................measure
dela................................. djal .................................boy
balta................................ balta ...............................mud
berja.............................. berja,bije ............................fall
de.................................... dje .............................yesterday
smerka............................ mjekra ............................beards
tsela............................... tsjella ............................brought
wet.................................. vjet ........................year(or last year)
dedr........................... djath(nga gjedh) ...................cheese
esmi................................ jemi ...............................we are
melita.............................. mjalt ...............................honey
amal............................amal,amël,ëmbël ................... sweetly
tamal............................ tamël,qumsht ...................... milk
breda.............................. bredh ...............................loiter
perenda........................... brenda .............................inside
entenda........................... denda ...............................ply
ambiledza .......................e mblodha .......................I gathered
trempa .............................tremb .............................scare
deta............................... djathta ..............................right
mems .............................. mish .................................meat
ambi ................................ mbi .................................above
binda ...............................binda ..............................convince
bugt ................................butë ..................................soft
buzja ...............................buza ..................................lip
druw ...............................dru(druits) ..........................wood(tree)
kuri ................................. guri ................................... stone
mater ............................. motër .................................sister
skap ............................... shkop ..................................stick
stanj .............................. shtoj ...................................attach
lad................................... lodh ....................................tire
mats ................................mos ...................................don't
ngraj ..............................ngroht .................................warm
plat ..................................plot ..................................a lot
tsensmi ............................themi ...............................we say
blora............................ blert(blerim) .....................green(verdure)
njas ...............................ngjesh ..............................compress
dija ................................di(dija) ...........................I knew(knowledge)
dita ..................................dita ....................................day
nat ...................................natë .................................night
pija ..................................pi(pija) ...............................drink
trutja ................................trusja ..............................I press
ngruda ..............................ngrydha ............................I crowd
krupa .................................kripa .................................salt
buma .................................bima ................................plant
busht ................................bisht ..................................tail
nbunj ................................mbij ................................flourish
muja................................ miza ...............................fly(insect)
suj .................................shij(shoj) ..............................rain
lais ...................................lesh ...................................fur
waina ...............................vera .................................summer
deimen .............................dimen(dimer) ........................winter
ranja ...............................rronja(rroj) ........................lives(dwell)
tausnja ...........................thaja (thanja) .......................dry up
deur ..................................deri ....................................to
laus ..................................lasht ..................................old
laidna ...............................e lë ...................................leave
dora .................................dora ..................................hand
kranja...............................kyeja ..................................head
mosnj ...............................muaj .................................month
kousnja ............................quaja ................................I named
tsanja ..........................çaja(thyeja) ............................break
Prij.....................................prij ..................................guide,lead
pari...................................pari (i pari).......................... first, lead
para................................. para ................................... pre, proto, before
per.................................... për .................................... pro
puta............................... pyeta .................................I asked
grawa .............................. grua ...................................women
griwika ............................ gryka ..................................nozzle
mbiwela ............................mbylla ................................closed
leip ..................................lyp .......................................beg
krim ................................krimb ....................................worm
wrip ................................rryp .......................................belt
wara ...............................ura ......................................bridge
Veglia .............................Vegla ......................................Tool
rhinon .............................re (reja) ............................... clouds
sica .................................thika,spata ............................knife/sword
Didi .................................Dede ......................................Dupe
amic................................ mik ........................................friend
est ..................................është .......................................is
cael ..................................qiell ........................................sky
Havá .........................hava(qiell),parajsë..... .............. heaven(+paradise)
creare .............................krijoj ..................................make, create
Vendum ..........................Vendi ....................................the place
Vician ..............................Vise ....................................locations
Malontum ..........................Mal,malet ............................Mountain
Dyrrach Dyrrë......................derë,dyer............ ................ seaport, door
Ora ...................................ora,koha .............................the hour, the time
fimia ...................................fëmija ..................................child
Dassi .............................. Dash ......................................Aries
Math .............................. Math(madh)............................ great
Hyll ....................................Hyll(yll,ill) ...............................star
barda ..................................bardha ................................white
Bardhyll ............................bardh+yll(us,star) ..............white star
Bardibal ...........................bardh+ball ........................white forehead
Dardhania........................... Dardh+an .............................fruit+side
Dalma ...............................Delmne ................................fold,cattle ( For example: the meaning of the name Dalmatia or Delmatia, which is of Albanian origin, is "land of shepherds" - delminium — pasture for sheep)
(...most of the words are before 1 century, before the Roman period)

Or:
Thracian <> Albanian:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=145992&l=b735ae73c7&id=100001133356751

Or:
Hittite <> Albanian:
http://eltonvarfishqip.blogspot.com/2010/07/ngjashmeria-e-gjuhes-hitite-me-ate.html
+
Hitite: (hit) imme - (shq) nime (vërtetë); (hit) ash - (shq) ash (është); (hit) awi - (shq) avitu/avejtu (a vjen); (hit) wer - vejrm (virri, piskati)...

You don't know to speak albanian, but we should note that the Albanian literary language is +- 10% of the total wealth of language, dialects and subdialects. For example, Dr. Robert Else (albanolog), has recorded whith voice 137 dialects and subdialects of albanian language and they are just one piece from all parts and ways of speaking (It's enough to be cleaned from the atrocities and taken to study these words unexplored so far): http://www.albanianlanguage.net/en/dialects/rec_map3.html
For example, I'm from Macedonia and only in my village (whith 600 houses) there are many differences in emphasis and in the selection of words from the albanian 'infinite' syntax... there are so many synonyms and various forms of articulation of words, that distinguishes the neighborhood from neighborhood... but the special thing is that we understand each other completly, but differ in addiction regions of the type of words that are decided to use. This part of the Albanians is very heterogeneous in dialect, from the consequences of restriction to the southeast Pelasgians, to this piece today where they remained crouched, are enrolled in language, as descendants of the ancient cultures that shaped southeast Pelasgians. Weaving in the language of the Albanians in Macedonia, its also enabled me to find words from the Thracian and Hitite (Hetite) langauges (some of them you can see above)...

- ...and who is the common denominator, of these languageges: Illyrian, Thracian, Hittit, Etruscan, old Greek... ?! - Of course, Pelasgian language.
- ...and why for albanian language, scientists can not decide finally from which of these above language, Albanian language is derived ?! (as we know albanian language contains words from all these aforementioned languages) - ... this "enigma" can be solved (by the way, read "Enigma" from Robert D'Angely) only when is connected directly the Pelasgian whith Albanian language.

So that's why many scholars, rightly, could not determine or Generalized Albanian alone or as part of a group of languages. Once some think that it's Centum, once as SATEM (in fact it serves as a link between these groups, it is a more proof that it stands on above these groups), somtimes of Illyrian origin, Thracian, Dacian, Etruscan, Celtic, Frigian, Hitite or sometimes as the oldest branch of the Indo-European, sometims pre-proto-Indo-European sometimes Anatolian, Paleo-Balkan language sometimes, etc.. Also, this approach are mixet more from albanian langauge "artifacts" that will be noted from Egypt, Middle East, Caucasus, Illyrian peninsula, Apenin ... all around the Mediterranean.
This confusing approach purified when proved the direct connection beetwen Pelasgian and todays Albanian language.

All living languages, especially their largest group, Indo-European ones, lead/guide/ determine the direction to the Albanian language, Albanian language leads to building codes, which (according to Egyptian albanolog Mathieu Aref) has no genesis connection with any other language (p.240-"Albania"). So we speak a language that is created without any previous model, born together with the development of mankind and is suprising the fact that "today's Albanian language has been preserved almost intact during more than 30 centuries (since beginning of the invasion of Indo-European) in the highlands of old Europe [science maintains that the natives living in the mountains (being retrieved from invasions), while in fields newcomers] and above all, those of the Dinaric Alps "(p.435 ibid) and thus attains to explain a large number of Etruscan words, Thracian, Greek, Latin, Basque, Armenian, Celtic, Romanian, etc.. "(ibid f.559).

Or:Pelasgian inscriptions that can be read only by the Albanian language:

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110082815706163_100001133356751_66147_454520 8_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148823&id=100001133356751)


http://soul-of-the-pillar.blogspot.com/2010/11/pelasgians-and-etruscansgreek-alphabet.html
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66147&l=a2d07351ee&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66176&l=941d1cff0a&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148823&l=72d720898d&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148153&l=151ac01fc3&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148814&l=1e89c95237&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148835&l=f7d2429502&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66166&l=e8a35ea43f&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66167&l=e47d657233&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66179&l=dcc9749043&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66155&l=e023af7946&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66156&l=4ca67cc19f&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66180&l=6c34103025&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66174&l=54f292af81&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66172&l=a6abc2bd9d&id=100001133356751
Etc, etc...

Language scheme, from italian linguist and anthropologist Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66233&l=7cb8960819&id=100001133356751

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110088502372261_100001133356751_66233_785211 1_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146066&id=100001133356751)


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146066&l=a7c909f8b8&id=100001133356751

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/59307_129934663720978_100001133356751_146066_69430 84_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66145&id=100001133356751)




Pelasgian alphabet:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66315&l=f6d4521ff3&id=100001133356751

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110113265703118_100001133356751_66315_159859 9_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148670&id=100001133356751)


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148670&l=f01e5fe94d&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66143&l=7b3d0c7a42&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66138&l=a86eb322d8&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66140&l=3711081fd8&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66173&l=c44dbf0be2&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=298333&l=b113ea1e72&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66141&l=82eb0edf79&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=298334&l=9d1c6972e0&id=100001133356751


Etruscan - Albanian - English - Vocabulary
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=68996&l=5795be8676&id=100001133356751

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/37432_110775095636935_100001133356751_68996_443132 5_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69017&id=100001133356751)


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69017&l=ceb338d776&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69018&l=a82de2194c&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69019&l=27116aced9&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69020&l=cc60a41bea&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69021&l=7a09b6e9ce&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69022&l=6aafa23683&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69023&l=42ccdc766b&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69024&l=86294d8b98&id=100001133356751

Homer Language
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66164&l=62b6e46d8b&id=100001133356751

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110083652372746_100001133356751_66164_708754 8_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=144005&id=100001133356751)



For skeptics or uninformed people:
... for albanian language, origin, race, culture:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=23767&id=100001133356751&l=5e6b160e5a

Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - Albanolog, mathematicians, german philosopher
"If you want to discover the history from BC and the sciences of that time, you should study Albanian language"
...

iapetoc
11-02-11, 17:43
Besir Bajrami (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/member.php?u=28503)

I still dont understand what are you trying to prove,

that fustanella is only albanian?
then what about the bulgarian karakatsan
are they albanians also?

now about pelasgian

THE HALF OF YOUR WORDS YOU DESCRIBE ABOVE ARE NOT PELASGIAN BUT IE

and please stop bullshit of medern Greek which is more thracian due to Con/polis and find the real words

the half of the above are Pelasgian they are IndoEuropean
You simply proved that albanian language is more IE

for the pelasgian is not prene but priss


ekgs
orgjin
What Greek words are these

SEEMS LIKE ANOTHER NATIONALIST NAZI HIDE THE PROPER GREEK WORDS AND PUT SIMILAR


εντυε-endie-------parasqevazi=endi,endje---endie-endie

THAT IS BULLSHIT
εντυε-endie-------Ετοιμο-αζω=endi,endje---endie-endie
ΕΤΙΜΟ

παρασκευαζει - paraskeyazei = set is progress

BUT WHAT CAN SOMEONE EXPECTS FROM KOLLA AND HIS FOLLOWERS ONLY HIDDEN EVIDENCE IN PURPOSE

THAT IS WHY NOBODY BELIEVES YOU

cause you make fustanella only albanian
although it is IE word of 2
pous and lio = lose foot

remember the posdenarion of ancients
the cloth that binds feet of baby pos-deno
pous+lyo ly - elyon and lellika


κιελλι-qielli--------------uranos=qielli-----------qielli-qielli

uranos but also siel ciel why you dont mention that

the color of the sky is ciel or cian or cyan and modern is galano -> caliano galazio

now as you see the connection is done qielli k=g=ch=q gallano


now lets see the words you gave 1 by one

amas namu-namai Greek also ema nema emetera IE word not Pelasgian

atar GR tote (ionic atote) Lat atum
also Gr Tora nunc
present Tωρα Tora past Tote Τοτε
in Albanian pastaj NO connection with Pelasgian as you claim

aus αου-ς Gr Ουτος Αουτος Aut-os (ionic) avt-os Makedonian aftos athenean
Latin Ipse (hm no latin connection)
Albanian ai both connect
ΕΝΓ ΗΕ

Οναιρων WRONG TOTAL WRONG
ορω = watch - see On + oro means on Vision (in vision)
modern Greek Ονειρο ancient Onar and the dreamer o Ονειρων
Alb enderr
Lat Somnium
not sure but On En must be IE so I can't tell

αφαρ-afar
now my Lexicon gives
Alb afer = narrow?????? probably not good versionof my lexico to show good will
lets see the greek
GR APAX APAK-s ΑΠΑΞ means from the moment (Απαξ, εξαπαντος = once, the exact moment)
Gr Apar in many synthesis like απαρ-αιτητος = απαραιτητος
also par-on = present moment
to understand the Greek you must forget the IE and roman
Par-on = present this moment NON IE
PAR-ELTHON =past moment that pass NON IE
A+par-aithtos = means needed the exact moment NON IE
A+par-Amillos =this momment can not be compared
As you see Greek have the Aphar as APAR and its not in the moment

βασαι????? virb in plural person? or you don't know greek?
next time a transalation in another language
GR s->t as ss->tt
Batai
Batos βατος= walkable, easy pass
Bain-o Βαινω = walk towards also raid also start move,
Μπαιν-ω Mpen-o in modern Greek
Basis = the head quarter of Bain-on (the area or building of raiders, or soldiers)
Basis = the start of a move or a devastation or even the progress Basis of a building
iselthise is not a word in any Greek language but it is a word like εισ-ερχομαι = eiserchomai
iserchomai and means enter means that your lexicon is as mine bad, or
eiselthe - eiserthe
Now in case that Basai means narrow street
Gr is b->p and s to t Patai - pati -πατι = μονοπατι διπατι comes from pat-o (step) and is simmilar to passage pat = pass
IE WORD NOT PELASGIAN

βαν--van already before.
Latin Venio
as Greek is βαιν-ω - Ven-o
watch the above

βαριον-barion WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT WORD ?
In WHICH GREEK WRITER???
Pro-baton = walks before you (you lead them by back, not infront of them)
also Gr Prait-on and Βraita (Bariata change r Braita -Praita)
But the Pelasgian is Kουρατ ->Kurat Kora is the name of the herd of sheeps
later became Kopa gr R (Ρ) is latin P (π)
modern greek kopadi
homeric once names them Βηρατα Birata by what i remember
WRONG INFORMATION
Besides in Albanian is Dhen
BAD APRROACH AND BAD INFORMATION


βυσαι-vishe----------kripse-fshihe, mbuloje----vishe-vishe
now watch carefully
Close = Kleino = Κλεινω ΙΕ
Hide = Κρυβω but also enby-o
Proto-Greek
Δυ-ω = the sunset the end of day
Bυ-ω = turn the light away NOT HIDE
Βυω present
Bysa-me pluralΕ-Βησα past
means turn off light, fire,
a(s) -Bestos = calcium (no turn off with water) a +βυω
Modern Greek ΣΒΕΝΩ sbeno- sbino
ερδαι-erdhe
GR passive ercho-mai elthe (Ελθε) ερχου
Gr active ΝΟΤ in USE


I will not enter more to trouble
simply you copy paste from a stupid site like aristidi k..... or Z..s10

the man took IE words to prove that Greeks do not speak ancient IE like others,


simply I must remind you that Greek language has elements of Thyrrenian as also IE as also and some other languages,

now next time try to find correct words of Pelasgian trully pelasgian
like
αλοιφ-ω

And besides remember that Greeks have the old Alphabet of Pelasgians which was same with Phoenician
search eteoCretan which was the center of pelasgic after Thera
and also search Latin which is connected


AND PLZ DO NOT DESTROY A SACRED LANGUAGE IF YOU DON'T KNOW
-ai is 1rst person in plural not all -e end to -ai also nominal in plural
by putiing -ai to all means you dont KNOW WHAT YOU WRITE

and don't use bad translators,
I respect every language plz respect mine
And don't write fake or synonyms or bad translation

Simply you are not a linguistic but a cheap propagandist,
who hides evidence to make imprresions
you should be ashamed for that,
if you want write something correct the ask a Greek grammar,
he will help you, but stop wraping other people lingua, it is a shame,
Many times I make mistakes but if I am proved wrong then I accept
all the words you write above are not all pelasgian
many of them are thracian and many IE
The pelasgian is proto-Thyrrenian and not all IE
Thyrrenian has IE but pelasgian a little almost not

like word
αλοιφω Engl anoint
χριω Latin ungues
but also means colourise and CHRISMATION
αλοιφω alifo is medical by a doctor
χριω chri-o chriz-o is political or divine by a priest or a king
χρου-ω chrou-o is the colour, the paint (probably blood, or war collours etc)
noun of virb chri-o is oracle chresm-os
maybe there could be a word in albanian language,
but that does not prove that Albanians are more Greeks than the Greeks
simply proves that both once use a part of that
but by baptising IE as pelasgian is a crime to you mainly

ok Besir

κορτειν-kortin----------kurion=korrin-----------kortin-korrin
in eng carrier
is that a pelasgian???? that is a IE WORD mainly

The Thyrrenian word is Ferro
Greek Φερ-ω Φορε-ας etc
Latin Ferre
Makedonian Verro Βερ-ω (Βεροια-Veria, bereia)
now think the above mistake and be more carefull next time

Besides all the words I read here

Etruscan - Albanian - English - Vocabulary
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=68996&l=5795be8676&id=100001133356751)
by 90% have a Greek similar world also.
Besides a big % is IE like ate (father, πατερ, pater)
YOU CAN'T CONNECT ALBANIAN WITH THYREENIAN BY USING IE WORDS ACCEPT THAT
IT IS MISTAKE,
but you can prove that albanians are close to the Thyrrenian family of languages than Turkish for example
for example if i compare Greek with IE i will find millions of words, but thaT means nothing,
cause Greek is IE language, like that by comparing IE with albanian you only prove that Albania is in a part of Latin Language family, which is correct in %,
but albanian language is considered unique in IE, meaning that is self developed.
for example by your picks
Tyrrshenian aune
Greek autos
Albania ayne
Czech one
you just proved that Czech are also Etruskans !!!!!!!!!
it is different the pelasgian which is proto Tyrrshenian
besides pelasgian is also connected with city of Avaris
but Thyrrenian with the city of Tyrus
the big problem is by strabo who names thracian tribes,
the connection of thracian with Thyrrenean
albanian slavic persian are satem
while Greek and Latin are centum
that is the main mystery
now about all the other bullshit
albanians are not more greeks than Greeks
neither Greeks are more albanian than albanians

first read about George Maniakis, he is the real awaken of Arber people
but bullshit like Greeks came from outer space and albanians are the ancient Greeks and cheap proves most wrong is ......
Fustanella was wered by 3 tribes
1 is albanian
2nd is inland mountaint thessaly greece and peloponese, and
3 is thracia-bulgaria by the karakats-en -an the black sheep family

Now as everybody that wears Fustanella is not Greek
the same every body that wears fustanella is not albanian
understand that


besides if you considering me ignorant
then cut out the IE words in your books to say who is more Pelasgian,
I m not an ignorant,
simply you give wrong proves to wrong problems,
you just prove me with the links that Albanians are more IE than Greeks
But not the wanted problem
thank you
I know that,

Garrick
11-02-11, 18:08
Besim
Rule is that it is more important what other people write and speak.

Today the African and Asian authors writing about brotherhood with the Albanians. People linking genetics, anthropology, history, archeology, linguistics and other sciences, and express their views on the Hamitic (African) origin.

The Internet and forums have about it how you wants but it is now published and books.

One of the books that came out in 2010 is:

Kush Khamit Raamah

Faces of the Hamitic people

by connecting to the Geg, Arvaniti and Chamuri Albanians actually are Hamiti.

He points out that the Albanian name Cham derived from the Ham.

The book was published in the edition Xilibris Corporation.

http://img1.fkcdn.com/img/514/9781453500514.jpg

A kilt (fustanella) is an Egyptian/North African costume. A pair of pictures:




http://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image017.jpg


http://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image019.jpg

Besir Bajrami
12-02-11, 12:34
@ iapetoc
I have more than 2.000 of pelasgian words (not published yet all together... the new greeks call them as it should as "pre-greeks"), which today are the same in albanian, but not are the same in new greek, they translate them. Those above I got from the book "Hesychii Alexandrini lexicon", By Kurt Latte, Peter Allan Hansen.

As I see you don't understand the way how I present the words in that scheme above, you play whith words and you stay in the same place. You selected two words (misprints) to respond, passing silent by other facts, but of course I have answers and for your denial questions.
Being that these words are foreign to the Greek language, they enter the original language remains of pre-greek.
Hesychi many of these presents as Homeric words.
For example: word "krie" is old word which is recorded as pre-greek. This word is foreign to the Greek language and translates as "vasilias". Recognizing now that pre-greek "krie" = "vasilias" know the meaning of the word... krie = king... Krie = "the first", also "head" (in albanian). So, this is the logic.
Remember, this words are called "original language remains, or pre-greek"

"1. ekgs
2. orgjin
What Greek words are these
3. SEEMS LIKE ANOTHER NATIONALIST NAZI HIDE THE PROPER GREEK WORDS AND PUT SIMILAR

THAT IS BULLSHIT
4. εντυε-endie-------Ετοιμο-αζω=endi,endje---endie-endie
ΕΤΙΜΟ

παρασκευαζει - paraskeyazei = set is progress

5. κιελλι-qielli--------------uranos=qielli-----------qielli-qielli

uranos but also siel ciel why you dont mention that the color of the sky is ciel or cian or cyan and modern is galano -> caliano galazio

now as you see the connection is done qielli k=g=ch=q gallano"




Answers:
1. διζα-dhiza-----------ekgs=dhia---------------dhiza, dhia
It's good that you select this: (pelasgian)"διζα-dhiza", its "dhia" today in albanian, but in new greek is "katsíka"... ekgs was misprint.


2. μενειν-menin-------orgjin-zemerimin-----menin, meni, merin... (This is the first word of Iliades)
So, (pelasgian)"μενειν-menin", is "menia" today in albanian; but in new greek is "thymós" or "orgí̱"

3. You call me Nazi (that's attempt to insult and shows you ignorance about history, in the same time) because you saw the swastica symbol in my profile image, and of course that you dont know that this is one of Dukagjinis (albanian north tribe) coat of arm. Swastica, like thousands of other Pelasgian symbols, are in use by albanians constantly, especially from those self isolated albanians in the mountains.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66188&l=18742dc0bc&id=100001133356751
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084525705992_100001133356751_66188_255027 _n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66193&id=100001133356751)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66193&l=85cf2ad034&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66192&l=e76a455804&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66190&l=d93a86d003&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66194&l=0fda1247c1&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=140112&l=391bfb1ad9&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=140111&l=94368ce2a1&id=100001133356751

4. εντυε-endie-------parasqevazi=endi,endje---endie-endie
So, (pelasgian)"εντυε-endie", is "endie" or "endje" today in albanian; but in new greek is "periférontai" or "ýfansi"̱


5. κιελλι-qielli--------------uranos=qielli-----------qielli-qielli
So, (pelasgian)"κιελλι-qielli", is "qielli" in albanian; but in new greek is "ouranós"
... and if the the color of the sky is ciel or cian or cyan and modern is galano -> caliano galazio, that verifies how the pelasgian name about the sky (qielli as albanian today), is the root of the connection you gave "now as you see the connection is done qielli k=g=ch=q gallano", and not the opposite !


Here some other albanian words connected whith these roots:
Qiell {sky}... Diell {sun} (Iell/Hyell/Ill/Yll>Star... [Hyjn, Hyu, Hyj, Yj, Hyll, Yll, Ill… Yllirians, Illyrians, also helion/hellen are from the same root wich survived only in albanian, as small semantic units )... Di {knowledge} {Di– (earlier Diw–). This root also shows up in "Latin", which in fact is Albanian root http://thescincedelusion.blogspot.com/2010/04/religion-paraded-as-science_19.html (http://thescincedelusion.blogspot.com/2010/04/religion-paraded-as-science_19.html)} ... Dit {Day}... D(r)it {light}... {then the display of "r" creates other words related to the first (r)-reze(ray)... Ar (gold), also Ar (star, also Yll/Ill/El/Al) ... Ar (fertile field)... {Ar-ba(ën)n, Ar-bër(n), Ar-vanit, Ar-br(n)esh... (How albanians calls themself in middle ages}... but in all times they call them self Shqiptar (Skipetar), that means Shqip (Eagle) Shqiptar="Sons of the eagle"... ancient writers calls them Pelasgians... Romans calls them Illyrian.
More about the root "Di":
Dias/Zeus... “Di” {Di~dit~diell~dias(Zeus)~d(r)it/(r-reze)... (Di>Knowledge... Dit>Day... Diell>Sun... (D)Iell/Hyell/Ill/Yll>Star... [Hyjni, Hyu, Hyj, Yj, Hyll, Yll, Ill… Yllirians]...
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148153&l=151ac01fc3&id=100001133356751

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/61796_130422303672214_100001133356751_148153_66030 28_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=145984&id=100001133356751)

Ill, Yll, Yj, Yje, Yjnor, Hyjnor, Hyjn, Hyjnia, Hyjneron ...
YJ (stars): even this word has been found in other languages, unless the Albanian, also being much common one in epigrafic documents of the antiquity, from the Aegean to the Atlantic. YJ, YJNOR, HYJNERON are coming from terms from the pelasgo-illirico-Etruscan. In fact, they are found some in abundance in their registrations, but today they are used alone in the Albanian language. From this it can be deduced that the several shapes of YJ could be of origin proto-Indo-European. And it can be arrived to this conclusion taking in consideration all the other Indo-European languages that do not call “YJE” the stars, but: Sanscrito (Astra), Italian (astro, stella), Spanish (Estrella), Portuguese (Estrela), English (Stars), Greek (Aster) Persian (Setareh), German (Stern).
eyhe----> means to pray to the Hy(Deity)
Ἀγρόται Ἀλεξίων εὐχάν----Agrote Aleksion lutemi o hy
Ἀμμίλα Ἀρτάμιτι Ἀγρότᾳ εὐχάν---Amila Artamiti Agrota e hyan
The standart translation for the verb e hyinoia is to make a favour or to be blessed by Gods
But it's very clear that the exact translation is : deify by the Gods, blessed by the Gods.
The meaning "favour" is an altered one or a secondary meaning very close to the original which is the Albanian one.
Ps.: Ancient, /h/ aspiration at the beginning of a word. It was not pronounced in greek since ancient times, but it is still pronounced in erasmic pronunciation and it is preserved in transliterations of greek words to some european languages. e.g.
scr.poly: ἱστoρία erasmic: [histo`ria] but monotonic ιστoρία mod.gre:
english history, (french) histoire, etc.
old gre: ὑπόθεσις erasmic: --------- hypothesis
old gre: ὑπνωτικόν ----------hypnotic
old gre: ὕμνoς --------------hymn
Because of the diacritic marks:
ὕ=hy
In Linear B are known the words "i-je-re-ja " and "i-je-ro-ja ". Ventri has explained how the words ... "the saint-saint". Remind you that this Albanian word, is verified since at least 1600 BC ...
I-je-re-ja in linear script B is Y + T, placed one above the other is "Yjt.
Yj, Hyu, Hyj is a very important and ancient Albanian word. [I]It's so sad when the so called ancient Greek takes the credits from this beautiful Albanian word.

Also, in albanian language is synthesized the double meaning in ethymology of Zeus/Dias, in twice meaning, from the good side {Zeus survived as Zot(God) in albanian - Encyclopedia Britannica} and from the bad side Dias/Di(j)all/Dejall/Dexhall>Devil...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=236337&l=9a1e52b212&id=100001133356751

This homonym is transmited and in other latter languages of the antiquity:
For example in German
Diell nämlich Sonne
Djal nämlich Sohn
Slavic:
Diell znaci Sonce
Djal znaci Sin
...
Now you'll say that why you tell me how these roots are spread in Indo-Europian languages... and you forget that IE words must have pre-IE roots in their words, even the greek language like IE.

Iapetoc: "Besides all the words I read here
Etruscan - Albanian - English - Vocabulary
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=68996&l=5795be8676&id=100001133356751)
by 90% have a Greek similar world also."
- Please tell me one by one, words by words how these words can be greek (not to tell only dry ideas), unless if you tell me words with albanian(pelasgian) small semantic unit or roots.

Whith todays greek language we can explain etymologically a lot of Indo-Europians words, but to the level of morphemes and not to the smallest semantic units, like an albanian language can, even to phonems and the explanation of how are the letters defined to make first words... {hieroglifs, kuniform writing... whith issue are taken some linguists and freemasons like Granam Hancock & Robert Bauval or Giuseppe Catapano, after 40 years of scientific work, brought to light the book: "Thot spoke in albanian"
THOT spoke in Albanian / TAT parlava Albanese / Thoti fliste Shqip !
http://www.youtube.com/user/2B1985#p/f/6/OZH3XUOdnXQ
Albanian language in ancient Egypt
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/5/TQXai-M4nxA
Symbols of Egypt
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/4/kOqxp8BqLW0
Etc, etc... }

"Sui generis" case is that even possible atrocities (entering and leaving as entering, in any language), from any people(culture, nation) around, that manage to penetrate into Albanian, can still be explained etymologically in smaller units of their semantic by albanian, even with the language 'in isolation' [which for some albanalog (as István Schütz) considered Oddity / enigma of humanity] and all these centuries survive under invasion!
To prove the fact that the Albanian language is considered Proto-Indo-European, have engaged several dietary, international albanologs as M. Sufflay (who was killed by the Serbs), V. Georgiev, A.W.Persson, W. Merlingen, F. Paudler, O. Menghini, M. Budimir, M.L. Wagner, T Milewski, N. Jokl, J.G. von Hahn, D. Camarda, A.F. Pott, and hundreds of others. {For you, would be interesting to read something from Iakovo Thomopoulos, for example "Pelasgika"(1912)}

So, except those above, I will initially one more example in the field of linguistic(1) and cultural another(2), that are conidered pre-indo-europian.

1. To Count vigesimal {with twenty "njëzetshe(alb)"}, is characteristic for the pre-Indo-European world. Vigesimal counting is stand against counting Didactic, counting {whith ten "dhjetëshe(alb)}. Viegesimal is characteristic of Indo-European world.
So, in Albanian language, along with ten (dhjetë), thirty (tridhjetë), fifty (pesëdhjetë, etc.. use twenty (njëzet), forty(dyzet), where "zet" is taken as a unit, even Albanians in Italy go to trezet(60), trezet of ten (70), katërzet (80). Trezet within hearing even in popular songs on the sides of Shkodra. Vigesimal count has also BASQUE language, partly Danish and southern Italian dialects in some cases (as closed parts of albanian language as pre-Indo-European).

2. From the field of ethnography, which proves the direct connection with the people of today's Albanian like pre-Indo-European, among others, also is counted and the habit of "kuvadës" counted as one of the cultural rilict of pre-Indo-European. This habit has remained alive among Albanians today, and partly the memory of this custom save the Basques of Spain.

About the game of Pre-Indo-Europian, and Indo-europian languages you play (Although they have many shortcomings like a theory, however, they must have elements of the truth inside)
If we refer to ancient scientists, all describe Pelasgians as indigenous, from Gibraltar (Pillars of Hercules ") in the west, to the Caucasus in the east, the Baltic Sea up in the north, to Egypt in the south, while the world mythology goes to extremes and claim that "pelasgus" was the first man ... then we face the theory of some new scientists who think that Pelasgians were the first Indo-Europians who came to Europe. This theory is not right in the essence (and opposed by many other researchers, such as: N. Marri, M. Sufflay (who was killed by the Serbs), V. Georgiev, A.W.Persson, W. Merlingen, F. Paudler, O. Menghini, M. Budimiri, ML Wagner, T Milewski, N. Jokl, J.G von Hahn, D. Camarda, A.F Pott ... based on data from ancient writers, who are in line with the mythology, but also whith archeology, anthropology, linguistic ... that protect the theory that the Pelasgians were the pre-historical people (as Maurico Druon, Secretary French Academy, says about albanians) and is not registered that albanians (or pelasgians) emigrate from somewhere in any moment of history, except within their territory (from Gibraltar or the pillars of Hercules in west, to the Caucasus in the east, and from the Baltic Sea up in the north, to Egypt in the south), addiction to invasions of peoples and cultures created after the extract of them. They were "there" since history has begun to record data. As such was distributed the pelasgian element in subsequent cultures and peoples, we can say that the roots they spread in those langaugees, today are preserved by Albanian language). But Indo-European theory, uses other elements of the truth (the identity of Pelasgians who is found within aryans, or the opposite, from primitive extraction of pelasgians came aryans. However, it comes to the same extract that has survived as such directly to Albanians today, therefor albanian language is known as Indo-European language, but definitely they have to accept that like the oldest of this group, or its trunk) because even Indo-Europeans were originally formed by pelasgians extract before return (to their fathers) as heterogeneous nation called aryan:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=223998&l=8c1a610d6b&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224000&l=9a17dc3824&id=100001133356751
...
Pelasgians also were mixed whith Sumerians and formed Semitic people. Remember here three sons of Noah: "Japheth" (pre-indo europian or Japhetic period in Europe ... "Shem"-(Semitic) - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=95137&l=b3527cd8c2&id=100001133356751 ... and "Ham" Indo europians). That's why exist albanian roots even in these other languages (not only indo-europians), but at different levels, in relation to the period of creation.
Meanwhile, modern science should clarify many dilemmas, if they will abide by the primary requirement for dealing successfully with the outcome,
who is undressing by pseudo-nationalisms.
This conclusion while still counts as a reference point for the successful outcome:
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - Albanolog, mathematicians, german philosopher
"If you want to discover the history from BC and the sciences of that time, you should study Albanian language"






________
@ Garrick
Broadening as much in antiquity, the more peoples and nations emerge united with each other, originating from a common extract... In this point, albanians have preserved their language, culture and their ancient race, intact (retreated to mountains, from permanent invasions) from the winds of alienation what happened with all nations... So, when you'll study the albanian question in all its components (like many free scholars, linguist, historian, archaeologist, anthropologist, artist... did, and I mention some of them), you'll encounter elements of the most ancient language, culture, race... that have existed in the world and what is more important, is still alive today {Considering that the oldest world civilization has moved all around the Mediterranean and today with the help of scientists we find traces of albanian language, culture and race, from Egypt, Middle East, Caucasus, Illyrian (Balkan) and Apenin Peninsula... and now you can sync the input of the Mediterranean culture in World culture and finaly you can understand my approach}.
Spesifically, if we talk about Fustanella (http://www.albpelasgian.com/uncategorized/26.html), I thing that is an albanian culture element, but not only.It's a element of ancient culture and was preserved from the extract of that culture, but we have to know and to accept the fact that she was adobted from other latter cultures (like greeks does). We have old artifacts that verify the use of fustanella from Pelasgians/Illyrians long time ago... for example, this artifact is from V cent. BC http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7060/fusgvjetmar2nx.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7060/fusgvjetmar2nx.jpg
...found in north Illyria (Sllovenia), or this one in Durres Albania, from the IV century BC: http://zeus10.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=659772
http://zeus10.webs.com/fusgurdr6jz.jpg (http://zeus10.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=659755)
... Also we had those in Egypt but we have to know that Pelasgians (like a very old culture) were in Egypt too. Also, about pelasgian element in Egypt, take into consideration the work of linguists (+freemasons) like Granam Hancock & Robert Bauval or Giuseppe Catapano, after 40 years of scientific work, brought to light the book: "Thot spoke in albanian"(listed above)



Just like the Pelasgian language, culture and DNA is distributed as element in subsequent cultures and peoples, synonymous with this concept is when we say that in that period are distributed the Albanian language roots in those languages, because pelasgians (albanians) were here (like proto-indo-europian) ...http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=223998&l=8c1a610d6b&id=100001133356751

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75670_147272005320577_100001133356751_223998_29716 62_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224000&id=100001133356751)

... before greeks come whith indo-europians...http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=223999&l=089c04944d&id=100001133356751

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75670_147272008653910_100001133356751_223999_66013 31_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224113&id=100001133356751)







__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
... and for ancient writers (Homer, Herodotus, Strabo, Pliny...), pelasgians autochthon and pre-hellenic or other strange population, whith other language but in the late period the part of pelasgians were mixed whith greeks (and whith pelasgian words which we can find today in albanian language as smallest semantic units, was created greek language, we have descriptions that people had difficulty to learn that new language ... later it was used like a royal language ... the language of the church ... the language of the letters ... but the language of the poeple was preserved intact from those who decide to maintain their original identities and retreated to the mountains, where even today we find among the name of the "sons of the eagle").
Wile the other part of pelasgian (etruscians) formed latins and a part of them as we said, withdrew to the mountains(todays albanians, who decides to maintain their original identity) and in this way, albanians are direct descendants of Pelasgians.
This self isolation, of that part of pelasgians who decided to stay true to their identity, had its multidimensional consequences. Wile the other nations progress, this part of pelasgians stay isolated, drawn to the mountains and back to sea, were we can find them under the name of the eagles (shqiptar - son of the eagles), but on the other side, in this way they preserved the langauge, culture, symbolism of old pelasgians intact.


It is interesting to note that many scholars, rightly, could not determine or Generalized Albanian alone or as part of a group of languages. Once some think that it's Centum, once as SATEM (in fact it serves as a link between these groups, it is a more proof that it stands on above these groups), somtimes of Illyrian origin, Thracian, Dacian, Etruscan, Celtic, Frigian, Hitite or sometimes as the oldest branch of the Indo-European, sometims pre-proto-Indo-European sometimes Anatolian, Paleo-Balkan language sometimes, etc.. Also, this approach are mixet more from langauge "artifacts" that will be noted from Egypt, Middle East, Caucasus, Illyrian peninsula, Apenin ... all around the Mediterranean, to the newer languages (just around the triangular base towards circulated / world civilization interact, the surprisingly marked with a equal sides distance between Dodona of pelasgian Zeus, Ararat - rebirth of humanity-the ark of Noah / Nuh and the Great Pyramid in Egypt. (In this context, read "The oracle of Dodona" by Maksim Zotaj or http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/egyptgeodesy.htm).
This confusing approach purified when proved the direct connection beetwen Pelasgian and todays Albanian language, as extract of subsequent cultures and peoples. Just like the Pelasgian languge is distributed as element in subsequent cultures and peoples, synonymous with this concept is when we say that in that period are distributed the Albanian language roots in those languages what we can find even today.


All living languages, especially their largest group, Indo-European ones, lead/guide/ determine the direction to the Albanian language, Albanian language leads to building codes, which (according to Egyptian albanolog Mathieu Aref) has no genesis connection with any other language (p.240-"Albania"). So we speak a language that is created without any previous model, born together with the development of mankind and is suprising the fact that "today's Albanian language has been preserved almost intact during more than 30 centuries (since beginning of the invasion of Indo-European) in the highlands of old Europe [science maintains that the natives living in the mountains (being retrieved from invasions), while in fields newcomers] and above all, those of the Dinaric Alps "(p.435 ibid) and thus attains to explain a large number of Etruscan words, Thracian, Greek, Latin, Basque, Armenian, Celtic, Romanian, etc.. "(ibid f.559).

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=313401&l=9b034b506b&id=100001133356751
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/168670_165064460207998_100001133356751_313401_4498 038_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=166262&id=100001133356751)
This is why we find Albanian DNA, their culture and language, all around. That doesn't mean that they were coming from all around (It make no sense than history, that shows how homogeneous nation they were all the time), but this mean that Albanian DNA, culture and langauge is survival of the Pelasgian extract today (drawn to the mountains from permanent invansion from latters new cultures and nations, who were gradually shaped by this extract, but chaotically distributed in the following centuries).
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Now, let's focus to the topic and cearfull (you Iapetoc) in next time, dont make everything greek. Like these words written by you in p.3:

"1.arbanites were greeks
2.fustanella is greek from πους =feet δενω->δεναλι = bound
πουσδεναλι,
3.shqiptar = ish GYPTAR from egypt
4.sghqiptars learn the language from arbanites of arber who welcome you
and you genocide them
5.Suliotes were greeks
as Sulimiotes is peloponese
what bullshit who are talking
suliomiotes as suliotes were illyrogreeks NOT SHQIPTARS
6.the albanian canun is also a Greek kanon κανων and means law we can find also in minor asia in Kulla and even to pontic greeks
6.YOU EVEN MAKE KASTRIOTI AN EGYPTIAN ALTHOUGH HIS FAMILY COMES FROM GREEK MAKEDONIA
PRINCIPI EMATHEIA ET CASTURIA..." - and a lot of poor greek propaganda of this level. This what you say can make sens, only if you consider that the old "greeks" or "Helens" were albanians (pelasgians) or were speaking a language very close whith albanian (pelasgian) language, created when the greek indo-europians contact whith pre-indoeuropian albanians(pelasgians). That's why the new greek language can be connected whith the old one, only through the albanian roots in it. The other part is not connected at all...

The modern greek language
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247827&l=121558727c&id=100001133356751
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/166347_152258544821923_100001133356751_247827_5861 44_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247832&id=100001133356751)

Albania Paste and Present, New Yorlk Macmillian 191
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187475&l=d0142d6613&id=100001133356751
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/66302_139467896100988_100001133356751_187475_26454 36_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187347&id=100001133356751)



Discourses of Collective Identity in Cental and Southeas Europe 1770-1945
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=250228&l=d31993775b&id=100001133356751
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/163895_152778344769943_100001133356751_250228_3690 393_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247895&id=100001133356751)


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=250181&l=2bb88f57fb&id=100001133356751

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/58038_152771774770600_100001133356751_250181_43132 84_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247828&id=100001133356751)



Earth and its inhabitans - Europe
by Elisee Reclus, edited by E.G Ravenstein, F.R.G.S., F.S.S., Erc. - New York
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247832&l=624a62f9a4&id=100001133356751
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165765_152259364821841_100001133356751_247832_9668 27_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=250181&id=100001133356751)



Democratization in the Balkans: prescription for a badly scarred body politic
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247828&l=3ed4fd07e6&id=100001133356751

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/166347_152258548155256_100001133356751_247828_4626 951_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247829&id=100001133356751)


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247829&l=01a10814cd&id=100001133356751

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/166347_152258551488589_100001133356751_247829_1327 060_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247816&id=100001133356751)



Herodotus described Pelasgians as non-greek and autochthonous
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187369&l=aa1ed506b5&id=100001133356751
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/67707_139436546104123_100001133356751_187369_34160 26_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187324&id=100001133356751)


Albanian folk verse: structure and genre
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247816&l=a135a8fd94&id=100001133356751

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/164501_152257354822042_100001133356751_247816_3395 936_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224001&id=100001133356751)



The Albanians- An Ethnic History from Prehistoric Times to the Present
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187141&l=747775df0f&id=100001133356751

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/71667_139408172773627_100001133356751_187141_45103 85_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187475&id=100001133356751)

Book ninety-ninth
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187201&l=59c9419280&id=100001133356751

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/73108_139410332773411_100001133356751_187201_37580 57_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187202&id=100001133356751)

A History of Greece- The Greek revolution, pt. 1, A.D. 1821-1827 edited by Henry Fanshawe Tozer
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187295&l=93dc27118c&id=100001133356751

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/66541_139416136106164_100001133356751_187295_29031 06_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187296&id=100001133356751)


The Gentile and the Jew in the courts of the Temple of Christ- By Johann Joseph Ignaz von Döllinger, Nicholas Darnell
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187340&l=ac83dcccc2&id=100001133356751

Struggle between Pyrrhus and Rome
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=206403&l=2279575efe&id=100001133356751


Chronicles of Theophanes - The Great Illyrian City of Thessalonike
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187303&l=4614382e16&id=100001133356751

Journey through Albania
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=206378&l=44cfba68d2&id=100001133356751


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211176&l=e6d3869968&id=100001133356751

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75176_144832822231162_100001133356751_211176_44444 34_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211177&id=100001133356751)


Albanian ties with the Pelasgians
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211177&l=5a6c2911c9&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211178&l=5ad0c607cc&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211179&l=e559706b2b&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211180&l=bec676fff1&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211184&l=74bb25bd78&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211185&l=1bc26e8b07&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211186&l=7fda9316a3&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=211187&l=4e53ae137c&id=100001133356751
Albanian ties whith Illyrians
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187208&l=83cb475c6f&id=100001133356751
5. A linguistic comparison of Albanian with ancient Greek and Latin indicates that Albanian was formed as a language at an earlier period than those other ancient languages.
http://www.albpelasgian.com/uncategorized/albanian-ties-with-illyrian.html
The Pelasgian parentage of Illyrian and Albanian language
http://books.google.com/books?id=IJ2s9sQ9bGkC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=Albanian+ties+with+Illyrian%22&source=bl&ots=YIMTQimTEI&sig=7fujf3bZxokuOEzqnxL29y7H_aE&hl=en&ei=sKFXTaaEJMOaOvyl-MIF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false


...

You can manipulate whith the antique period, in relation to the lack of Albanian institutions to protect from appropriation, but you can't make and the new history of albanian, greek history, because now we have our first free institutions (no matter that they are still weak) and the least we can do this time, is presentation to the world opinion, the right informations, INSTITUCIONALLY (from us albanians, because the scientific world has said its word).
So far, this issue is left to the "status quo", because awareness of the Albanians in this direction would result domino effects, above all political, then the historical, cultural and geostrategic. But in relation to multidimensional rebuilding as a nation (like the phoenix from the ashes of destruction) and ability to manage the glory, awareness becomes inevitable.

Regulus
12-02-11, 17:45
lol, half of Greek Attica is of Albanian origin. Athens is an Albanian city.

And you wouldn't call them ''Arvanite'' if they were Greeks, because Arvanite is what Greeks called Albanians. Fact. Albanians called themselves Arbereshe and even Epirotan, later this name changed to Shqiptar. While the Albanians in Italy still use Arbereshe.

The Albanians in Italy also use the two headed eagle, they are fully Albanians, only your ignorance here is the problem.. because if you were smart enough to Search up Arbereshe you would see.




I have points and questions about all three above:

I believe that Athens was pretty old for Greek settlements and were there before the Dorians. Its people were Ionians, were they not? I find it very unlikely that they had any Albanian admixture.

About the name Epirotes, I have thought for a long time that Epirotes may have had a connection with Albanians, possibly being culturally or ethnically mixed with Illyrians.

The Albanian community that has been in Italy for a number of generations is very interesting. They have retained much of their traditions. I have a friend whose family came to the US from that region. He visited it and they were very welcoming.

iapetoc
13-02-11, 11:28
Regulus
the Arbanites is little mixed situation both claim

watch Arbanites (somewhere around today Durres and Aylona (Vlore), not mention Before, first language mention is at 1040 AD with Byzantine minor Asian George Maniakis General as soldiers against the Normands of Sicily.
at 1080 an Emperror gives first permission to settle in Athens due to a disease that eliminate population and the massacre of Greeks by Christians (pagan Hunt, Witch HUnt etc), Although many believe has connection with Illyria
later 1210 about a Latin ruler also gives permission,
Same time in Albania is created the state of Arber
Later in albania is a Normand and Latin Invasion at the state of Alba of Anju
that divide pop to 2 catholic and orthodox
that time albania was many times allied Serbia or with Normands against Epirotans
when turks conquer Makedonia the Orthodox allied many times and made weddings just to unite medieval small kingdoms against Turks
that is the time when you see Greek names in Serbian rulers, like the name paiologos
Italian names from latin Crusaders etc
that ends at about 1450-1500 AD
with the fall of Con/polis, the Fall of Trebizond, the Palaiologos Dynasty, and the Kastrioti movement and Resistance,
After that in Greece there is a movement of people and villages that starts almost from Normand ocupation of Albania,
In fact the Albanians same time turn to Muslim and followed Baraba pasa
the lost of Kastrioti starts devastasion from Albania to elsewhere but mainly Greece
for reason of religion and nationality as also
Villages and areas leave to avoid Turk-Albanian (turk means Muslim)
they settled every where in Greece that stoped for a time and started after Moschopolis (Voskopoje) city Burn by Albanians and by Ali pasa, Before Greek revolution

only at Ali pasa times is about 150 000 people move to Greece Italy and Bulgaria Romania
I know cause my brother in Law is Epirotan and his village moved from Polliani (Pogiani) after the son of kastrioti (john) and went to Epirus and then moved here by the hunt of Ali-pasa (Argyrokastro vs Ioannina war), he is Arbanitet as Greeks name the people that moved from that area,

the problem is that arbanitet are divided in 3 families
1 the Attica that came at 1080-1250
2 the Epirotans and Kastrioti followers kicked by Albanian Muslim
3 the Arbanito-Vlachs (vlachs that lived in albania)

In fact when Greek revolt started the maps show and name areas like Sicily and almost today Albania as areas that should liberated from Turks, and from Turk-Albanians by Greeks and Arbanites and Moldavians,
Don't forget that Greek revolution started at Moldo-Wallachia not in Greece by a Pontian Greek(Trebizond)

the problem of Albania is that the majority of Arbanites denies the Albanian Nationality,
but accepts the origin From Illyria and Epirus.

that is why the Albanians claim Kastrioti as a trully Albanian and Greeks as a Greek

cause if you ask Arbanites where are from they will tell you from North Epirus south Illyria (today Albania)
but if you ask them what is your Nationality they will tell you Greek,

that is the situation and I try to avoid any political claims in my post
just report,

The name Arbanite as Arbanite of Aticca claim comes the city of Arbano
the more ask Arbanites Regulus, They are all educated and many Ministers and prime ministers before etc and have their own blogs

Even today there is some areas in that place that Albania and Greece have claims,
although day by day the situation is stabilized
according the Albanians the 1400 and after Arbanites are Albanians
According to Arbanites of that time they were Greeks that left under albanian preesure

Besir Bajrami
13-02-11, 12:00
I have points and questions about all three above:

I believe that Athens was pretty old for Greek settlements and were there before the Dorians. Its people were Ionians, were they not? I find it very unlikely that they had any Albanian admixture.

About the name Epirotes, I have thought for a long time that Epirotes may have had a connection with Albanians, possibly being culturally or ethnically mixed with Illyrians.

The Albanian community that has been in Italy for a number of generations is very interesting. They have retained much of their traditions. I have a friend whose family came to the US from that region. He visited it and they were very welcoming.




...he found by inquiry that the chief peoples were the Lacedaemonians among those of Doric, and the Athenians among those of Ionic stock. These races, Ionian and Dorian, were the foremost in ancient time, the first a Pelasgian and the second a Hellenic people. - Herodotos, book 1, chapters 56-58: http://faculty.fairfield.edu/rosivach/cl115/hdt%201.56-58.htm

Also, when Strabo about Illyria, mention: Ionian sea and Adriatic sea...
According to Theopompus:The first(Ionian) name came from a man, a native of Issa who once ruled over the region(The name Isadora or in illirian Issa a ancinte town Issa that was located somewhere in present Bosnia or Croatia. And "dora" meaning "hand" in albanian and even in Illyrian)
The second (Adria), was named after a river.
http://bosnahistorija.16.forumer.com/a/strabo-quotilirijaquot_post4653.html




________________________________
Now let's see something precious from Zeus10 ('cause iapetoc reminded me, as I see he had left very impressed from this site):
http://zeus10.webs.com/
http://zeus10.wordpress.com/

The Etymology:
Deti Jon (Greek Ιóνιo Πέλαγoς, Italian Mar Ionio)
In Albanian Deti JONE means OUR SEA

What mythology tell us:
The myth of the eponym of the Ionian Sea:
The eponym of the Ionian Sea (whose name was more often, particularly by Aeschylus, attributed to Io's voyage; previously the Ionian Gulf was thought to have been called the sea of Cronus and Rhea). Ionius was the son of King Adrias of Illyria who gave his name to the Adriatic. Ionius was also said to have been a son of Dyrrhachus of the town of Dyrrhachium (modern Durrës). When Dyrrhachus was attacked by his own brothers, Heracles, came to his aid, but in the fight the hero killed his ally's son by mistake. The corpse was cast into the sea, which thereafter was called the Ionian sea.
The Ancient Greek language is always seen as a separate branch of IE languages.
That is not true. The truth is as the following:


The Ancient Greek is not the language of the Hellenes
The Ancient Greek is the language of the Pelasgians.
The Ancient Greek is the language of the Pelasgian group of Egypt.
Hellenes have spoken originally an Illyrian dialect.
Ancient Greek (Pelasgian language) and Illyrian language have the same source (probably the later could be the source of the former).
Most of the Hellenes lost their original language.
The language of the literature(Attic, Ionic) is a conventional one its not the spoken language.
Unlike most of the beliefs that language of the Hellenes evolved in the today Modern Hellenic, I strongly believe that the later one is artificial bastard imitation and morphologically unable to explain the former.
Graicoi is not the same with Hellenes, Aristotle is definitely wrong.
Graicoi are a mix Semitic-Thracian tribe while Hellenes an Arian migration.
Hellenes represent the vanguard of the south Illyrian tribes returning back in the Peloponnesus which was their land before the invasion of the Egyptian Pelasgians.


Why is the Ancient Greek(Attic dialect) very different from Koine Greek, to that extent that you not being very wrong might call them two different languages? The scholars have always been wandering about this issue.
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1077/iliad58at1501centurybcod4.gif
Everything started as a human intervetion after an order of Ptolemy II, the emperor. He thought would be a good idea to create an universal language for the entire empire, whose center was Alexandria.
Many languages and dialects were spoken within the empire and Alexandria in Egypt was already the cultural center of the Empire in about 281 BC. Ptolemy II (Πτολεμαῖος Φιλάδελφος, 309 BC-246 BC) wanted an universal language to be used for diplomatic , literature, science and religious purposes. Thus he assigned Aristeas, an Athenian scholar, to create the grammar of the new language, one that not only all Greeks, but all inhabitants of the Empire would be able to speak. Thus, Aristeas used the Attic dialect as basis for the new language. Aristeas and the scholars who were assisting him trimmed the language a little, eliminated the Attic idiosyncrasies and added words as well as grammatical and syntactical rules mainly from the Doric, Ionic, and Aeolic dialects. The Spartan Doric, however, was excluded from it (see Tsakonian further down).
So, they standardized THE Hellenic language, called Koine or Common which was very different from the spoken one at that point that some scholars call it new artificial language.


Most of Ancient “”Greek”” words are compound words formed from simple primitive words which are inherited and still alive in an “”another”” language, in the Albanian language.
Why never heard of that?
BECAUSE:
The ancient history of Europe and Mediteranien is ‘pruned’ from other nations leaving only Greeks and Romans.
This ‘haircut’ of the history shows only Greeko-Roman look, thus you are led to believe in wrong false things and stories. I hope people who offered us this tabloid didn’t make that on purpose but only because of their ignorance and prejudice. I know they didn’t because they believed the Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient ones. Please God forgive them even if they call my study very revisionistic.




Pelasgians(which were not proper Hellenes), a pre-Hellenic people which include:

a. Ionians
b. Athenians
c. Aeolians
d. Islanders



Helenes

a. Dorians

The Dorians (Spartans-Lacademonians) have been always considered alien people by Athenians-Ionians-Achaeans, even during classical or Hellenistic period.

Thukydides 1.102
"The Lakedaimonians... afraid of the Athenians, and regarding them even as A NON-RELATED RACE...

They were considered such foreigners, that they were not even allowed to put step inside the temples of the Pelasgians(““Helenic temples””) Gods in Athene and Ionia.

Herodotus, Polymnia Book 7
a. The Ioniansfurnished a hundred ships, and were armed like the Greeks. Now these Ionians, during the time that they dwelt in the Peloponnese and inhabited the land now called Achaea (which wasbefore the arrival of Danaus and Xuthus in the Peloponnese), were called, according to the Greek account, Aegialean Pelasgi, ; but afterwards, from Ion the son of Xuthus, they were called Ionians.

What are Danaans, Argives, and Achaeans?
These are the same Pelasgians people, originated from the king Dannaus, who came from Egypt and was the brother of Aegyptus. He expelled the Ionians(Herodotus Polymnia Book 9) who were the original Pelasgians, from their native land ACHAIA. He was ruling over the land called Aachia and Argolide, and his capital city was Argos and/or Mycene.

The Pelasgians of Egypt differ somehow from the Pelasgians of Greece (Ionians) who are the original Pelasgians and their original home was the coast of IONIAN Sea which includes also Peloponnesus .
The Ionians got their name from the Ionian Sea, which in Albanian is DETI JONE and includes the following gulfs:


Strait of Messina (http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php?title=Strait_of_Messina&action=edit), W
Gulf of Taranto (http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php?title=Gulf_of_Taranto&action=edit), NW
Ambracian Gulf (http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Ambracian_Gulf), E
Gulf of Patras (http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Gulf_of_Patras), connecting the
Gulf of Corinth (http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Gulf_of_Corinth), ESE
Cyparissian Gulf (http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php?title=Cyparissian_Gulf&action=edit), SE
Messenian Gulf (http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Messenian_Gulf), SE
Laconian Gulf (http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php?title=Laconian_Gulf&action=edit), ESE

Herodotus, Polymnia IX-94.... Now these Ionians, during the time that they dwelt in the Peloponnese and inhabited the land now called Achaea (which wasbefore the arrival of Danaus and Xuthus in the Peloponnese), were called, according to the Greek account, Aegialean Pelasgi, or "Pelasgi of the Sea-shore"; but afterwards, from Ion the son of Xuthus, they were called Ionians.

For more information in this direction, see:
http://zeus10.webs.com/
http://zeus10.wordpress.com/

iapetoc
13-02-11, 16:32
Now Besir

lets start
1
Goat Αιγ+σ = ΑΙΞ Aeg+s (Aegean sea, Aegina island, Aeges ancient Town, Aegeas King, etc Zeus Aigis Aigis= shield like berberin shields)
nomin Αιξ
posses Αιγ-ος
κατσικ-α katsik-a From Turkish Kecik, or from Thracian Kozy
BUT ALSO GIDA
you accept only the katsik But not GID-a why besir???????
Gid-a comes from ancient
Aigis (goat leather Holy shield of ZEUS)
Aigi-s
Aigid-os
AiGID-a

that is what i say cheap work with propaganda
open your Lexicon and find Γιδα Γιδια
now as in Albanian Language many Turkish words same in modern Greek
you Took the Turkish
and not the Greek,
How do you expect me to react
Either you make a mistake,
Either you don't know Greek
Either you did that in purpose
I will accept it again as a mistake
but many mistakes that you do not admit is .........
The same mistake was done before by another propagandist Ari... K...a

2
you make the same mistake again
μενειν-menin-------orgjin-zemerimin-----menin, meni, merin... (This is the first word of Iliades)
So, (pelasgian)"μενειν-menin", is "menia" today in albanian; but in new greek is "thymós" or "orgí̱"
Greek is μαινο-ς not μενειν
μενει dwell, he lives in
μαινος maenos mainos amok the no brain-logic but only emotion feeling of anger
μαινομενος = in amok situation , full of wrath
μανια = madness that leads to amok

Θυμο-ς Thymos = Anger, but the also will to live, to react
Οργ-η Org-e Org-i = wrath, the ORGanical situation of a person full of anger, the pissed off, the full hormone that control mind

Now the same mistake AGAIN you hide modern Greek word μαινος and you show only thymos and orge

3
εντυε-endie-------parasqevazi=endi,endje---endie-endie
So, (pelasgian)"εντυε-endie", is "endie" or "endje" today in albanian; but in new greek is "periférontai" or "ýfansi"̱
παρα-σκευαζ-ει parasqevazi = prepare, 6 day of week (mosaic law), sets ready to make progress
περι-φερον-ται peri-feron-tai = carry around, walk around,
peri-pheral
peri-meter
feron = Veron Latin
yfansi = make textil
it does not make sense what you right
make textil with prepare with carry around
BUT the Ετοιμασ-ω you still deny it why???
2 virbs
Ετοιμασω Etoem Etim means ready get ready or i am ready
Ενδυ-ω Endu Endi means dress, I dress someone Ενδυσε-Ντυσε (ntuse, ntise)
ενδυ-ομαι means I wear Endu-omaι (ntunomai ntinomai)
do you that in purpose????


4
. κιελλι-qielli--------------uranos=qielli-----------qielli-qielli
So, (pelasgian)"κιελλι-qielli", is "qielli" in albanian; but in new greek is "ouranós"
... and if the the color of the sky is ciel or cian or cyan and modern is galano -> caliano galazio, that verifies how the pelasgian name about the sky (qielli as albanian today), is the root of the connection you gave "now as you see the connection is done qielli k=g=ch=q gallano", and not the opposite !

WRONG AGAIN
lets see Homerick Υει = rain Yetos = presipitation
Uranus = the one who rains
ura = urene uro-logist
that is the very Pelasgic not IE word
Uranus is the one that Yei (the rain maker)
ura (ουρα) is the rain of the man (piss)
remember phoenician Υ = U in roman and Greek OY is U in latin
Y is ΟΥ ου short y-psilon (short ou short U
Yetos also Uetos
watch it in Greek alphabet
y = u psilon short
oy ou = u thick long
OYRANOS
OYRA
YE-TOS
there is a possibility I have to mention as a searcher that Uranus is connected with Egyptian RA U-RA-NUS
I just report it.

Now qielli
the blue colours of the sky are 2
the ciel qiel siel (σιελ) light blu (modern Greek by dorian Gala-no galaz-io, to white)
the cyan - kyan κυανο (dark blue)
also notice but I dont believe there is a Connection the Sellen-e Cellene
the ancient Selleinoi people

now lets see the Greek and the Phoenician of the words


Qiell {sky}
Greek Ciel the colour of the sky But sky is Uranus from Pelasgian or Egyptian
Diell {sun} (Iell/Hyell/Ill/Yll>Star
Greek Hell-ios Hell or ΕLL ΕΛΛ as ILL same with semetic - Levant EL (El-Sandai, El-Ellion etc)
'Burn in Hell' = Burn in Fire like Hellios (sun) have
Greek Ηλ-ος = nail, Hλωσις to nail, to stabilize (H is long ii or ee)
now the star is Α-στηρ (Α-stir, A-ster)
means not stable, not nailed, not Ηλω-μενα, stars move (planets)

llirians, Illyrians, also helion/hellen are from the same root wich survived only in albanian, as small semantic units )..
Yes offcourse what you ever say I am Greek Not Hellenas
My rebuplick is Greek and Not the Hellenick
i don't call my self as a Ell-ην but as a Greek.
ARE YOU NUTS? have you ever came to greece?
ask them what are you they say Ellenas Get lost propagandist

Di {knowledge}
Greek di is God
Di-as , Di-meter afro-DIte PoseiDIon DIonyssos ADIs
later became ionic-phrygian Ti and Zeus (DI-ieus) became Teus modern Theos
that Di is interesting and puts me in thoughts


Dit {Day}.
in Greece was use until 100 AD in Crete day was Dia
but modern is Δειλι-νο Δειλι Δυ-ω = sunset
allthought I believe is IE (Romano-Celtic) not pelasgian as you mention

Ar (fertile field)... {Ar-ba(ën)n
lets see Greek OR
Greek mt Orbellos -Orvellos ΟΡ-βηλλος
Greek minerals are ΟΡ-υκτο or-ukto -ikto
Greek mine ΟΡ-υχειο or-uchio -ichio
connects with italian oro
Greek mineral is OΡΥ (ORU) and the metal is Χ(Ο)ΡΥ-σος Χρυσος chRU-sos
I dont know any other connection but I accept with precautions

eyhe----> means to pray to the Hy(Deity)
not exactly but simmilar
Ευχη EYCHE is Ευ = good and Εχω Echo means wish to have Good Gods protection
EΥ + Εχω Gives 2 words
1 Eυχη Eyche wish to have only good Gods or good results
2 Eυεξια (eyexia) Εχω - Future ΕΞΩ exο means I am in good health body and spirit (Goods spirits run though me)
the 1rst is the wish the pray
the 2nd is the result of the wish

Ἀγρόται Ἀλεξίων εὐχάν----Agrote Aleksion lutemi o hy
Ἀμμίλα Ἀρτάμιτι Ἀγρότᾳ εὐχάν---Amila Artamiti Agrota e hyan
so you can read Greek
and also know Eυνοια, means Ευ good νοια mind, thinking
Even today Greek from Anatolia say Νουνι-ω-ζω I am thinking (I use mind)
But modern Greek took Con/polis Σκεφτομαι (inner status search εις+εχω+ποιωμαι)
That is good cause soon you realize the Greek language and the connection with ancient Illyrian and Ancient Greek,
cause although modern Greek and Albanian have Turkish words, Albanian is little more Romano-Celtic and Greek turns little to Thracian and slavic
they have common the ancient Theba which was Build by Cadmus
and his son Illyros invade to Illyria and took his name,
remember that until Christianity is mentioned that Illyros tomb was an exhibit in Illyria, and christians destroy it. remember the legend says his parents as DRACO-DRAGO

Althought I have to mentioned That according Epidamnians Illyros was a Cyclop from Sicilly.




Whith todays greek language we can explain etymologically a lot of Indo-Europians words, but to the level of morphemes and not to the smallest semantic units, like an albanian language can, even to phonems and the explanation of how are the letters defined to make first words... {hieroglifs, kuniform writing... whith issue are taken some linguists and freemasons like Granam Hancock & Robert Bauval or Giuseppe Catapano, after 40 years of scientific work, brought to light the book: "Thot spoke in albanian"
THOT spoke in Albanian / TAT parlava Albanese / Thoti fliste Shqip !
http://www.youtube.com/user/2B1985#p/f/6/OZH3XUOdnXQ
Albanian language in ancient Egypt
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/5/TQXai-M4nxA
Symbols of Egypt
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/4/kOqxp8BqLW0
Etc, etc... }

I agree with you,
and Let remind you that exept Kurgan is also The Greco-Aryan or Greco-persian
or Armeno-Aryan or what Ever
in that the 1rst IE language was plit to 2 after a disaster in Black sea
it has many points common with the Kurgan Hypothesis but many different,
But explains better the far ancient languages

for example the Yll (star) in albania is an interesting word
cause probably either means
1 that was the name in ancient language,
2 comes from Ill EΛΛ as a tiny,
I didn't know Albanian language that good but it has a point,
Today in Thessaloniki University there is school that studies all Balkan languages and nationalities, But mainly Slavic and Turkish
Romanian is a part of Classical studies In Latin Studies
Albanian is still in low search due to political issues by both claim and Nationalism
for example before many years when I went to Albania and situation was in edge we were guarded by singurimi,
but today you don't even need a visa,
by years the situation either will calm to better, either will broke to bad situations,
in Fact the Greek people afraid Albanians due to 1700 -1900 events of muslim soldiers of Turks,
And the Albanians are afraid the Greek due to Orthodox due to last 400 years situation in South Albania




now lets see about me

1.arbanites were greeks
2.fustanella is greek from πους =feet δενω->δεναλι = bound
πουσδεναλι,
3.shqiptar = ish GYPTAR from egypt
4.sghqiptars learn the language from arbanites of arber who welcome you
and you genocide them
5.Suliotes were greeks
as Sulimiotes is peloponese
what bullshit who are talking
suliomiotes as suliotes were illyrogreeks NOT SHQIPTARS
6.the albanian canun is also a Greek kanon κανων and means law we can find also in minor asia in Kulla and even to pontic greeks
6.YOU EVEN MAKE KASTRIOTI AN EGYPTIAN ALTHOUGH HIS FAMILY COMES FROM GREEK MAKEDONIA
PRINCIPI EMATHEIA ET CASTURIA..."





My answers

1.arbanites were greeks
read my post above,

2 fustanella
fistan is turkish word
but Greek woman wear Fusta and Greek Man Fustanella
the explanation are mainly 4
even an Egyptian city that made the textil is mentioned
the Πους = Foot is the explanasion Πους -> Φουσ = Fus
I dont make everything Greek, But IE Greek explains very well the word
and is connected with other similar word for man feet
like that
English swaddling clothes
Greek Φουσκια Virb Φουσκιωνω (Fus)kion-o
Byzantine Ποσδεναρι
My lexicon gives Albanian Pelene
Fustanella is a kind of Dress worn by man and can be found in 4 mainly areas as today description and similar to other 2 areas

3.shqiptar = ish GYPTAR from egypt

well find in another post my 1rst aproach
Shqepar why?
ok lets realize that Aeolian Greek did not have k+s = x but avoid it to sk shq
the IE word in English is AXE
in Greek is ΑΞ = Ak+s
also similar
Ξε-ω scratch
Αξι-ς Αξιν-α Axi ENG mattock
Ακι-ς Ακιδ-α Aki ΕNG Pin
Ξιφει (ΗOmmer) Xiph- Eng the metallic pin (nose) of a spear
Ξιφος Xiph- Eng the sword's cutting edge
Μαχαιρα (machera) ENG the sword

the Aeolian names
Ξιφος -> Σκιφος Σκιφ- Shqiph
Σφυρα -> Εng Hammer ΣΚΥΠΑΡΑ -> shqipara - Shqepara

and the man told me No its not
so then I try to connect it with other words IE
like EIS + GYPT+AR
BUT IF READ MY NEXT POST THEN YOU HAVE TO ADMIT MY LAST APPROACH

modern Greek A-STRAP-E -I Αστραπη Lightning (not thunder)
Ancient STRAP-TΟ Virb
Ancient Aeolic word Σκηπτρ-ο Shqiptro
the one who hold the lighting Σκηπτρο is King
The Ancinet Greek Ανακες (Pelasgian name for Kings) hold SHQIPTRO
that word Exists today as Σκηπτρο in Modern Greek
But also
WATCH !!!!!!!!!!!!
in Thessaly and in Peloponese as Ξεφτερ-ι Qshipter (also Ξουφτερ - Xuphter)
Ξεφτερια Xephter Qshephter is the spark of metal crush or scratch,
also means the very clever mind, the 1 spark thinking mind
also means the lighting but it is abandoned in modern days, only in some villages
the above was supposed to write it but ok.


4.sghqiptars learn the language from arbanites of arber who welcome you
and you genocide them
5.Suliotes were greeks
as Sulimiotes is peloponese
what bullshit who are talking
suliomiotes as suliotes were illyrogreeks NOT SHQIPTARS

hmm yes it depends to who I am talking,
If that man is fanatic and can see with 1 eye then I can see with 1 eye
for example read my posts about Makedonia is another post,
I can get freak when another is freak, Turks many times use the word Aut for Greeks
as Arnaut for Albanians
the fact is Suliotes is bad story cause even in bulgaria they did not find peace,
I leave as they to decide what are they, The Fact is that by suliotes we have the first Lexicon of M Botsari which is a unique attempt
about shqiptars and arbanites is a subject that you must come to Greece and live it
especially in villages that live Epirotans- Illyrians-Arbanites and work modern Albanian immigrants, as an example I give you that
the old man comes from a village wich have Epirotans from near Ioannina and slavic and Albanian- Arbanites, they all came from another village from Epirus near Delvino -Delvish i think in albanian, well modern days albanian worker came and work the old man's field, That man has even an Arvanit name that is more Albanian than Greek
and was proud for the Albanians in the village,
Until one day at national 28/10/1940 celebration
the man told the story at the village cafe for the loss of his brother in Greek Italian war in today Albania lands, and a fight started with a young fanatic Albanian who told him καλα να παθει means 'he deserve to die', that pushed a situation thank god with no killing, in fact all Albanians were forbiden 1 month to enter village after 7:00 by evening and 7:00 by morning, and at village no Albanian worked fro 1 year,
the reason was 'Shqiptar' nationalism and the old mans brother who fought for freedom against Italian Fasism,
That is why Shqiptar in Greece means NAZI and FASIST, when Albanian means people from Albania,
The word Albanian is not a bad word,
The word Turk-Alban reminds older war, and keeps Greeks in suspicion
But the word shqiptar is like red infront a bull to many arbanites,

6.the albanian canun is also a Greek kanon κανων and means law we can find also in minor asia in Kulla and even to pontic greeks
means that you have not search the Greek Καννων and the Church Πηδαλιο,
probably you are a muslim or a catholic,
those who live under church law follow the πηδαλλιον of Basil of Caesarea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_of_Nazianzen)
and those who are accepted to church but not follow must obey the Καννων,
I don't want to tell you more about that, but if there is a cleric of orthodox church near you live ask him,
'no woman with child will ....
children under 12 .... etc '

about kastrioti
one day I gother all the sources and I will write them down, to see that a lot of evidence gives connection with Greek Makedonia, and south Peloponese, as also family connection with serbs to contribute to an alliance,
Kastrioti is an Albanian Hero, but many is under search and claims,



You can manipulate whith the antique period, in relation to the lack of Albanian institutions to protect from appropriation, but you can't make and the new history of albanian, greek history, because now we have our first free institutions (no matter that they are still weak) and the least we can do this time, is presentation to the world opinion, the right informations, INSTITUCIONALLY (from us albanians, because the scientific world has said its word).
So far, this issue is left to the "status quo", because awareness of the Albanians in this direction would result domino effects, above all political, then the historical, cultural and geostrategic. But in relation to multidimensional rebuilding as a nation (like the phoenix from the ashes of destruction) and ability to manage the glory, awareness becomes inevitable.

hmm
the fact is wrong as put it,
Greek writer and language is the biggest and one of the most ancient,
that does not mean albanian is modern, but is at the beginng of studdy, since first Lexicon is M Botsari I Think
Greek scientists have Illyria in the wide Thyrrenian-Pelasgian familly but not in the close proto-Pelasgian,
the fact is the gennetic simularity as also the Linguistic not IE words can permit that,
if you look the map of the Thyrennian language albania is included,
but a good approach to Greek far studies will help you,
many times I said that Illyria split or isolated by romano-celtic and persian and probably before Mycenae and walk her own way, and Greece walk another road,
example Alexander and Pyrros 1 east 2 west

the ocupation of turks as also invasion as also the Near thracian, which for me is a big question if they speak thyrrenian also?????
gave modern language a big separation

iapetoc
13-02-11, 18:58
Besir you are still wrong
I told you Zeus 10 is Full of Mistakes

1 Hellenes is the Pelasgian name and Greek is the outer name,

now watch carefully

1 iner Pelasgian
Cyclades Minoan Lemnean , civilizations naval that connect with Levant and phoenicia, as also with minor asia Hettit and greek Theba

2 wide Pelasgian THEBA, Athens Thessaly Aegean Thracia minor Asia North west
Inner name Hellenes from Hellenas river
THEY ARE THE HELLENES THE GREEKS

The dorians were never an Illyrian tribe
the dorians were pure pelasgians from Peloponese relatives of arcadians that left to help lapithes against Centaurs and returned
READ ABOUT TEMENUS BEFORE YOU MAKE CONCLUSIONS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temenus

What Illyrian bullshit you say, told you Zeus is hoax that even change polytheism and made the Cypriots Albanians


lets see fake scientist how is language in Doric
tell me
also how is written crete in alphabet change and how

doric
the language is Γρουσσα Pelago-Thyreenian has infuence IE R1
Ionic Γλουσσα -Γλωττα Pelasgian inner ?????
Aiolic Γρεσα Pelago Thyreenian has IE influence
Cretan Γρετα Inner Pelasgian NO IE INFLUENCE
achaic Greka
in Homeer the one who speek Greek Γραισσοι
now lets leave the phoenician Alphabet and Use the Greek alphabet similar Latin

doric Crouss -Gruk
Ionic ------
Aeolic Cresa - Greca
Creta Creta !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Γραισσοι (Hommer) αι = ai or ee Creess ss-> k Greek

In modern Greek the understand word also has a synoym the Γρικαω -kas past εΓρικησα
means do you speak ?

the only IE if they invade so south is the myceneans,
But UNTIL TODAY MANY BELIEVE THAT THE GREEK IS A PROTO IE LANGUAGE,
as Persian
according the Greco-Aryan Hypothesis
according the Kurgan Hypothesis
The only IE R1 people that change language is the mycenaes,
But that is still under Doubt cause it is more possible to take IE language from The Hetits than a far north Scythian who manage to invade so down and change the language,

The kurgan Hypothesis does not explain well the Anatolian languages

As you understand Zeus10 has another mistake here

cause in the Thyreenian languages is also the Phillistine not only etruscan


as you see Aristoteles is not wrong Zeus 10 is,
Γραισοι means speakers,
the one who Γρεκαν and not βαρβαριζειν
the one who speak and understand and not the one who speak and sounds like Bark
βαρ in Greek means bark Barbaros = is the barker

The Pelasgians were never Egyptians they are the Iauan, the iapetus Japheth
from Levant cousins of Phoenicians
The Kush Egyptians came after Pelasgic in Peloponese and still dont know when
and are the mess people, the messapic the messenians
there is a posibility that Mess people first habit Sicily

About koine there are many koine

1 koine starts in 776BC in the change of games from Hellenas river to olympia

2nd koine is the Attic-Ionic which is the
attic of before and
attic after Pericleus
the second attic is the Language of Aristoteles
The Argeiads makedonian spoke a dialect that sounds more to Atiic 2 period than Doric
the Aeolian Makedonian spoke a Dialect that could be understand only by other aeolians


3rd the 1rst attemp of koine starts from Amuntas in Makedonia in 373 BC
later continued by Phillip and Alexander etc

the 2nd attempt is by Ptolemy in Alexandreia

slowly koine that follows the ionic Branch in grammar but words of other
becomes the Hellenistic Koine I
Later enter more thracian and becomes Hellenistic Koine II
and Finally the Hellenistic Koine III
the OLD TESTAMENT translation of 70 is a mix of Koine II and III

Besir

watch carefully that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmus

they are the pelasgians
NOT FROM EGYPT BUT FROM LEVANT

the around speaking of pelasgians are the thyrrenian or Tyrrshenian
the 'wide spoeken pelasgian'
it is the same like latin language
spain italy france speak latin as also S america, but today is considered Latium the 1 rst land,

now according the map and my approach which I can discuss up to a limit
the J2 in Ηellas and Illyria is the pelasgian naval
the E-V13 is the Mess that is connected to Achaic Greeks and south west Thessalians
and mainly inner land people
the E-V13 is Danaus from Egypt
as for example the Greek Charos Χαρος is the Egyptian Chorus
the E-V13 is more connected with Achaic and Aeolic people

to understand more read just Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians

even troy is a pelasgian 'wide'

from History by the invasion of Illyros to north

Now for every one that doesn't understand and read this post,
not for you besir
the Pelasgians are not Greek But proto Greek

The pelasgians created the Thyrrenian - Tyrrshenian culture, and the minoan - phillistine culture
the thyrrenian is pre Greek to almost Greek
as also Pre Etruscan as almost Etruscan
the case of Albania and Tyrrhenian culture
is for albanian searchers and academics to decide it
Greeks place Albanians as Thyrrenian influenced
as also put many Thracian tribes to that
but the main problem is the Thracian, the Ancient Thracians connection with Tyrrhenians
as also the cretan-minoan influence of κουρητες (kuretes) to Illyria)
and the Carni to Slovenia
Carni from Carinthia to Roman Illyria

Garrick
13-02-11, 19:51
Iapetoc,
you can be right that Pelasgians created the Thyrrenian - Tyrrshenian culture.

There are thoughts that Thyrrenians were I people.

There are elements for and against.

Today Serbs, Bosnians and Slavo Macedonians speak Slavic language.

But they received Slavic language from R1a bearers.

It is not known yet which the language I beares spoke.

Scientists are investigating which was old I the language, and there are many assumptions, it is still unknown whether the old I the language was Pelazgian, or other, Iapetoc what do you think which the language of the old languages is closest to be the language of I bearers?

Besir Bajrami
14-02-11, 07:26
@ Iapetoc
I have so much to say in relation to your response, but for the sake of the rules of communication, I ask you to reply about every part of my writing. Only in this way I can cut all you paths in the next time and not to stay in the same place. Because as I see you don't give up from your poor propaganda. You pass silently by other facts, and you start playing whith words.

iapetoc
15-02-11, 00:57
Besir
Zeus 10 is a cheap propaganda

as you Did

Phoenician and Romano-Celt ???????

simply think that many words are better explianed by other languages with out Fantasies,

I dont make propaganda
someone else is trying

by the Hy in the ευχη (efche) eyhy as you do it next time yoy will tell me that albanians are the Hyksos that rules Egypt.

Agrotai Aleksiwn EYCHAN
That is Greek language not albanian, you can not explain it by albanian,
but you touch the meaning
it is simple
Farmers wish (not curse) to Alexis
wish ευχη is εχε ευ
ευχομαι = εχε ευ
means to have the good, the best,
in ancient syntax to make 1 word turns rules
eche ev -> ev-eche eveche - evche

if I take your approach
a pray to Hy ????
is there a God Hy? ????



if Albanians are true inner pelasgian then the pelasgian civilization should born in albania, and from ther should spread,
then why Pelasgian are found in Greek islands minor asia and not that much in dardania,

what language was the Messapic, have you ever wonder?

want Dorian language ok

Τήνοι δίντε ’τα νι μάκο, αφιόνι, να κασεί.

«Μα για ξείκα, Τζελjίνα, καμάžι π‘οι ñ’ εν’ έχα α ñύιθη»

mostly follow the rythm _ long U short ' tone

' u 'u 'u _u_u
or -u'-u'
simmilar to cretan dialect

instead the Ionic

Now write 1 by 1 what answers you want,
But if I answer you will stop bullshit????

Besides I don't play with words
It is you play wit IE and makes them Pelasgic,

the Pelasgic by the words we find is not clear How IE they are
but surely gave a lot in IE languages latin and Greek from anciety
and my problem is still the connection with thracian
cause by what I read in Orpheus (ορφικα) have some,

to understand pelasgic

explain the
Larissa word
or the Labyrinth

there many mistakes in works that have been done in the past,
and later proved to be fixed by IE words
like sponge
in an old work was pelasgic
but comes from IE fix
σπογγος = εις (φιγγω) Virb
συσ+φιγγω = σφιγγω to fix, press to fix

as you see 2 ΙΕ words make 1 word that was considered not IE
that can trick befool a scientist

but we know that the axe is Λαβρυς in pelasgic Labrus - Lavris
cause it is in languages of IE
but only in Greek Luwan Hetit and simmilar to Latin only, around Pelagos
if it is in albanian I dont know

and besides 6000 years after we are looking for pelasgic words,

and Zeus 10 and Ar.. k..a are trying to prove what?
that the Greek language is Albanian origin !!!!!!!
and Greeks don't know their language, and albanians speak better Greek than the Greeks !!!!
or the turn to modern Greek is a stupidity that cuts the past
cause for that I am a fan of ancient
but for explain me Greek words with wrong words, and hide the exact word, is stupidity,
it is like telling your dad what to do to make you a brother
whom you are fooling Zeus10???? only your people, the albanians that read you,
cause Greeks know the virb Etoimazw and the word Apax and the euche (eyhe)


Besir zeus 10 is like Liakopoulos the man proved that Greeks came from outer space, and the indians of south America were ruled by Greeks
some people they know that stupidity sells and write bullshit,
I believe that Albanian linguists are more severe, than some stupid cheap nazi propaganda,

you said that in albanian
Zeus is good GOD
Dias is the Devil
ok maybe in albanian

but in Greek Zeus = Di-i-eus (THE GOD (the divinity it self)
Dios = Di-os (of God)
Di , DE, as I told in another post is in many name of gods

Devil in Greek is Δια-Βολος Diabolo as you see it, it is easy to say the Zeus Bull,
Dia = Zeus Bolo = Bull ,
whell that is wrong, cause that bollo comes from virb βαλλω =I shoot

But according to zeus10 posts and fantasy will be the zeus Bull that iesralites worship in desert,

and not the the divinity that appears in Job and other prophets that shoots doubts

ok
again ask me down of that 1 thing the time
in your next post

Understand it
Zeus10 is a sick that hates Greeks, and all day works with lies and bullshit just to convise Albanians that they are more Greeks than the Greeks,
if it was possible he will tell that Greeks are indians who came from antarctika and speak shuachili

watch carefully the map of macciamo the J2 and the E-v13
in albania there is much J2 as in Aegean, but drops in kossyfo
same in Greece to the mountains, why?
but Greek language is the language of J2 pellasgic E messenian and R1a (thracian)
the albanian is the language of J2 of E and R1b (romano celt)
that is why you say mire jam
the wrod mire is not in Greek Language
the rest is from J2 and E that probably speak same language in an 4000 years before today
(i don't put the turkish in both)
but that does not mean that Albanians speak better Greek,
it is a stupidity since albania has few centuries of clear scintific search and greece has few millenium,
you can use ancient greek as a tool, but don't tell me that ancient greek is albanian native language so greeks are albanians, cause the less romano celtic lingua in west world is Greek
it is the language with fewest roman after far slavic,
instead the albania has more,

Besir Bajrami
15-02-11, 05:00
Pelasgians created the Thyrrenian - Tyrrshenian culture.

There are thoughts that Thyrrenians were I people.

There are elements for and against.

Today Serbs, Bosnians and Slavo Macedonians speak Slavic language.

But they received Slavic language from R1a bearers.

It is not known yet which the language I beares spoke.

Scientists are investigating which was old I the language, and there are many assumptions, it is still unknown whether the old I the language was Pelazgian, or other, Iapetoc what do you think which the language of the old languages is closest to be the language of I bearers?

Of course that Pelasgian create Thyrrenian. The first example above ("Stele of Lemno" - http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/f/155/ogH7jnqU6BM) from Pelasgian inscriptions that can be read only by the Albanian language, is in fact whith Thyrrenian language http://soul-of-the-pillar.blogspot.com/2010/11/pelasgians-and-etruscansgreek-alphabet.html
As we can say for Etruscan, in that level we can speak about the Thyrrenian as Pelasgic derivatives.


@ iapetoc
"I ask you to reply about every part of my writing. Only in this way I can cut all your paths in the next time and not to stay in the same place."
Every time you write something, you gave me so much material to respsonce and I can't wait to take your words one by one, even that you tell me something which is not related directly to what I wrote, and when you want to prove something as wrong, by telling me synonyms of greek language that also don't have to do whith the old pre-greek language, you verifie what I'm telling you. Also thanks for the materials that shows how the smallest semantic units or albanian language roots, are in every linguistic concept, name, mythological character, etc; and you are trying to tell greek morphems and you forget about roots and smallest semantic concepts, that are albanian inside those morphems...
In your approach you have to know this basic fact before you want to speak about history of that region, that Mediterranean region was a RESTRICTIVE area as a result of continued EXPANSION, that has already served as a resource creation, would later serve in the liaison function of the distribution of peoples, languages and cultures, mainly from east to west...

About language, firstly you have to consider this part: Pelasgian(or albanian) language, before it has split into greek and latin: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247827&id=100001133356751 ...

So, I have to tell you one more time, keep my words one by one from the first post in this page and pay attention to references what I gave and response about, because If I proceed to speak like in MSN here, I offend/override that what I wrote above (were you can find the answers you seek for). Anyway, and I can't wait to take your words one by one, after you'll take mine.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________


For those who want to learn more in this direction:

Culture (within the topic):
Fustanella and its adoption by the greek state
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WPeKGaNW3g

Albanians and Art
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/102/3Uwl3OulWgQ

Magnificent Albanian Clothing
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/c/6065AC9B75911C99/178/yreE8ZcXB_8

Albanian costumes
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/c/6065AC9B75911C99/194/FUOVoGvHXiE

The Celebrated Albanian Kilt; Fustanella e Fameshme e Shqipetarit
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/c/6065AC9B75911C99/192/WaKFCC5-IEk

Fustanella / Kilt an Albanian Traditional Costume !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXEpUCx_V3w

Pelasgic culture of the Albanians
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/157/BAxELx8XdcU (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Ancient Albanian Dances
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/c/6065AC9B75911C99/24/sSZydLZ5B5o

The Illyrians dancing
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/74/TBa9ZEU-PO4

The Celebrated Albanian Kilt; Fustanella e Fameshme e Shqipetarit
http://www.youtube.com/v/WaKFCC5-IEk

Ancient Albanian Culture & History Preserved Through Art
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/c/6065AC9B75911C99/178/yreE8ZcXB_8

Fustanella, Born in Arberia
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/c/6065AC9B75911C99/185/FszFtWN_LCc

Albanian Hat - Odysseus, Patroculus, Ptolemey
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/168/P1tvmnc3cVU

Music of Epirus: UNESCO on Albanian Polyphonic Heritage
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/421/DSa1mZrBq1g

Albanian Warrior- From Illyria to Now.
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/45/lePfNJjtae0
...

Souliot, Arvanit, Cham (for dilemmas of Iapetoc)...

The NY Times on Souliote Albanians
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/115/ua3YK-kNx4w (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Souliotes/Suliots-by Andre Gerolymatos-part 1
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/c/6065AC9B75911C99/181/ABo3PMhIbUo

Souli & Souliotes - the Albanian brave warriors
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/163/4QFAqVvpuWk

THE ARVANITES and their Language / Shqiptaret e Greqise
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/167/byxNzAYVqvw

Albanians, Arvanites & Greek revolution - Myths and Reality
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/162/BoG5ecO60lY

Famous Greeks of Albanian origin
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/172/38sZgTjELQo

The Arvanites Aristidh Kola
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/117/mpsPP31Mj5k

The Great Arvanite Hero - Aristidh Kolia 1/3
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/174/QJZE_ac85L0

Arvanites,Albanians in Greece
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/192/FRqgpAUentM

Albanians in "Greece"
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/194/lNYZqHwZHYM

THE ALBANIAN CULTURE OF MODERN GREECE! IS THERE ANYTHING HELLENIC ABOUT THE MODERN GREEKS?
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/151/0X9a_Z-bT3I

Albos-Albanians-Αλβανοί-Shqipetar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4GjJVrGinY

Romans did NOT identify Epirots as Greeks
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/154/iKt43MNs3T0

ΑΚΑΔΗΜΙΑ ΠΛΑΤΩΝΟΣ TRAILER
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/206/oS_WkXQdAQ0
...

__________________________________________________ __
Greek and Serbian Ethnic Cleansing Projects - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/373/YjtBNL29_gk

Greek crimes in Epirus against Ethnic Arvanites / Albanians !!
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/372/RhuhdMgAkdk

NEVER FORGET.... CAMERIA June 27
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/394/NALfGJPFO64

Chameria.... Against Greek Propaganda
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/400/_G8QNXo7HyQ

Albanian Chameria Issue, the "Tibet" of Europe !!!
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/175/4gdp4fmJ7Yc (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Tsamides kai sto Eam???Video for Greeks........
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/423/2fR_OehPjxU

_________________________________________________

The Absurd Pseudo Greek Lies !
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/10/L_LlkruQsiM

GREECE, THE LAND WHERE MYTHS REPLACE THE HISTORY. (Myths about Epirus)-PART I-
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/95/618MuqqTXhU

Ancient Greece and modern greeks
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/410/agCSfgZFIOc

Modern "Greeks" (Christian Turks) vs The truth.
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/134/VqfKtYAjBEM

Modern Greeks are not the old hellens
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/136/-IxSkvNdefY

Isn't the history of Epirus a Greek fabrication??
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/153/4c1zzTPBbSM

Slavic origin of modern Greeks - The video that shocked Greece
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/113/3cVcpovlK5c
_________________________________________________



History:

THE CREDITS BELONG TO THE PELASGIANS.-(Part I)-
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/169/_ulZ_OeP3nk (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Atlantians = Pelasgians
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/21/ujBAKo6NkJY

Pelasgians - Mediterranean Sea dominance
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/22/RxpxVJ6yh-Y

Ancient Albanians Pelasgians
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/36/oC5dIGKQ3_E

The Sea People
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/40/4zDLtPp97j0

Pelasgians-root of the Ancient world;greek,phoenician,hebrew,etc .wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/152/KjIqLLP9FnU (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Underground Pelasgian cities in Cappadocia ╠01╣
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/170/K1X9l9JhPhk

Alba - the Day Lighting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmFlmceV75c (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Alba - The Eagle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhg9X0LhEI4

Eagle of the Sky, Alba - Albania
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/37/SVSRmNIK5V8

Rising Phoenix
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/129/ST-N80hBgSQ (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Pelasgians: the first Inhabitants of the Balkans
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/111/fOCx3asVeB8 (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Proto-Albanians
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/11/jhmmRFmOhic

Old Albanian Script
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/16/FcbQyLF4BPA

ILLYRIANS AND THRACIANS
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/167/ZZTUaxHQWiw (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Illyrians and Albanians
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/10/zmDH55FMvoM

Was Alexander the Great greek or slavo-macedonian?
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/75/G6YqR5vI58Q

Macedonia - 4000 years of Albanian continuance (Video that shocked both Greece & FYROM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97NS-uZMohw

Old-albanian as initiator in the Balkans
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/108/My7W5XTVr3k (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

The Land of Eagles - The Land of Albanians
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/103/-WePmNTzC1M (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

illyrian history with the truth- short documentary
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/105/HRbk4UCQXAo (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

The ILLYRIAN EMPERORS of ROME and BYZANTINE EMPIRE
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/18/NJ_XDlKf9lA

The truth about albanians ILLYRICUM SACRUM
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/48/eCBi8d81_Lg

Montenegrin's - THEIR ALBANIAN ORIGIN
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/158/G_1RasAJO4k (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Albanian historical rights on Kosovo
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/17/7nepY-77ckQ

Origin of Serbs
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/110/g1SvRh8tzXg

SERBIAN IDENTITY VS ALBANIAN IDENTITY (by :UKSHIN HOTI)
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/104/Hqt7MwH54oE

REVIEWING AN ""ANCIENT"" MAP.(Part I)
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/192/cbXz8NPNlGw (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

__________________________________________________ _______________

Pelasgian Conspiracy.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/151/hlSNC0wVlnY (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Pelasgians-root of the mediterraneans.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/146/b-UTZONhvn0 (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Phara - The seed of many nations and people.wmv
Freemasons and Albanians.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/165/mBU7B1TC0N8 (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Freemasons and Albanians.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/144/QbLYh3pODFQ

Freemasons and Albanians 2.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/145/5UGlG6Kg9vA

Jews and Albania.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/147/q0LvS1i96TA (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Albanian Muslims rescue Jews in WW2 #1
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/84/Zgj-xshWOr8 (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Albanism-in Albania.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/148/CG2Ic7_wuk8 (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Albanians-unusual people.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/149/19aniM9BHeI (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Barbarians of the North-East Europe.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/150/IEARPctZ8TU

Albanian Flag - a Masonic flag!.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/186/jbKdzxegT4Y

Dragon - Albanian Flag.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/153/WD5PoFdieYQ

Albanians against the world power.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/178/5KYfxjEu0QQ

Albanians and the world.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/180/nRKmdebaAzA

Albania - a hot melting pot.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/166/I4ci3bMchqI

Albania - victim of Europe.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/182/0Vc_-tRuAeg

Albanians and their friendly nations and people.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/191/BsQ74G3b7TE
__________________________________________________ ________________



Language:

Symbols of Egypt
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/39/kOqxp8BqLW0

Albanian language in ancient Egypt
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/5/TQXai-M4nxA

Measurement of the LANGUAGE PIE (Proto-Indo-European)
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/171/eFgWlujuY1w (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Indo-Europeans
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/172/irZqw3W-kV0 (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Albanian Language: Names Origin of the Ancient Gods.
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/33/ioiqUWrMmkE

Re:The Albanian Language: Pure and Pelasgian?
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/32/buBxXsqGprg

Old) Albanian Living legacy of a dead language (?)
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/174/BAIXnpMhlC4 (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Pelasgic - Illyrian - Etrusco - and Albanian Language!
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/109/J0c8WzrnaXg (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Many Ancient words have meaning only in Albanian
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/139/_ULzmfcN948

Ancient greek gods were pelagians.flv
http://www.youtube.com/2b1985#p/f/130/a1GOQSlJR0Q

Albanian Language and the connection with the Q-Celtic /Keltoi languages !!
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/29/ZCq3FGPAJTs

Latinishtja dhe Shqipja
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMLAWedKmtk

Latinishtja dhe Shqipja II
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/26/UMLAWedKmtk
__________________________________________________ _______________



Mythology:

SUN's movement in the Human History.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/f/78/5Eq2sehTmRo

Old Myth of the Snake's Gate
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/0/udQqDF43ifA

United World Babylon
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/1/VP-Dv6k4xF8

Noah's people
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/8/3VF8Vcr1mJ4

Sun - Snake
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/189/PXEfAaXdhno

Stonehenge and the Sun.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/183/uoPxLK-5UIU

Europeans Origin
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/119/rH-WSxLiVKA

World Civilization mystery
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/120/fzRmML4xHXk

Race of Man
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/116/Y5B0s47gFnY

The First Land
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/121/hhC-ZXJ2chc

Myth or History of Man
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/118/8mSi-RQcTmo

Mythology is the Old World History
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/196/x0Tl9VVziYA

God of the Earth
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/195/MlLEh-olksI (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Centre of the Wheel of God (in the world)
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/f/350/c7SB5vq9Gdk (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Pyramids and the Wheel of Ages.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/164/KJvITdNbp_s (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Ancient artifacts and the elite secrets.wmv
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/181/DYhkA_cP0_g (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Sky signs and Earth
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/f/344/DJMCiUl4uy0 (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

The Illyrian Religion
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/41/mgUV3CWfjMs

Illyrian/Albanian ancient God(Baba Tomor)
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/77/IUul6QPvKtE

Illyrian History
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/95/KanBzjM83y8

Giant Ancient Temples
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/130/xBlz7sxduss (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Giants of the Mediterranean
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/125/to5pqz2dFIE (http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/99/6mVJXxLxbKM)

Tree (Wheel) of life
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/123/zLwQPdcvj7o

The Son Dragon
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/2/uBNMCwq7v8c

Two headed Dragon
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/3/UvYt15mbBaA
__________________________________________________ ________________


DNA:

Albanian Dna
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/13/pOGHj4JyGDs

Albanian Dna 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9Ht9azD9A8

Albanians Origin
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/14/oOECnfKzMqQ

Greater Albania- Myth or Fact?
http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF/107/vt3diMHjP34
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247897&l=53a0cd559a&id=100001133356751
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/164299_152265138154597_100001133356751_247897_1962 068_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=187211&id=100001133356751)




______________________
World News - Pelasgians
http://wn.com/Pelasgians
__________________________________________________ __
+ 200 videos about ancient Civilization; History; Mysticism; Spirituality; Culture...

http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#g/c/1F6C5E09AF6DB3AF

Info+
Some of the links above have problems. If they don't work, don't press them, but copy/paste in a new tab/window.

I presented here a lot of info (whithout takink into account links from youtube).
- So, I dont responce to those who make me to rewrite pieces from those what I already wrote {Because in that way, I offend/override that what I wrote above (were you can find the answers you seek for)} .
- I dont responce to ignorants and spamers too.

iapetoc
15-02-11, 14:02
besir I think you are a spammer

you send tones of stupidity

and I ask you one by one

now about Lemnean stele


Of course that Pelasgian create Thyrrenian. The first example above ("Stele of Lemno" - http://www.youtube.com/2B1985#p/f/155/ogH7jnqU6BM) from Pelasgian inscriptions that can be read only by the Albanian language, is in fact whith Thyrrenian language http://soul-of-the-pillar.blogspot.com/2010/11/pelasgians-and-etruscansgreek-alphabet.html
As we can say for Etruscan, in that level we can speak about the Thyrrenian as Pelasgic derivatives.
As we can say for Etruscan, in that level we can speak about the Thyrrenian as Pelasgic [email protected]

one word PARANOIA

the lemnian stele

The inscriptions are in an alphabet similar to that used to write the Etruscan language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_language) and the older Phrygian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_language) inscriptions, all derived from Euboean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euboea) scripts (Western Greek alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Greek_alphabet), alphabets of Asia Minor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabets_of_Asia_Minor)). These scripts are ultimately of West Semitic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Semitic) origin and were adapted by various peoples from before the 8th century BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_century_BC).

The stele was found built into a church wall in Kaminia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaminia) and is now at the National Archaeological Museum of Athens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Archaeological_Museum_of_Athens). The 6th century date is based on the fact that in 510 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/510_BC) the Athenian Miltiades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miltiades_the_Younger) invaded Lemnos and Hellenized it. The stele bears a low-relief bust of a helmeted man and is inscribed in an alphabet similar to the western ("Chalcidian (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chalcidian&action=edit&redlink=1)") Greek alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet). The inscription is in Boustrophedon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boustrophedon) style, and has been transliterated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transliterate) but had not been successfully translated until serious linguistic analysis based on comparisons with Etruscan, combined with breakthroughs in Etruscan's own translation started to yield fruit.
The inscription consists of 198 characters forming 33 to 40 words, word separation sometimes indicated with one to three dots. The text consists of three parts, two written vertically and one horizontally. Comprehensible is the phrase aviš sialχviš ("aged sixty", B.3), reminiscent of Etruscan avils maχs śealχisc ("and aged sixty-five").

so besir is your chance as a linguist,
Go and translate the stele since you are albanian and only Albanians can read it

Aegean language family

A larger Aegean family including Eteocretan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eteocretan_language) (Minoan language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_language)) and Eteocypriot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eteocypriot) has been proposed by G.M. Facchetti, referring to some possible similarities between the Etruscan language and ancient Lemnian (an Aegean language widely thought to be related to Etruscan), and some Ancient Aegean languages: such as Minoan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A), Eteocretan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eteocretan_language) and Philistine languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistine_language). If these languages could be shown to be related to Etruscan and Rhaetic, they would constitute a pre-Indo-European (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages) phylum stretching from the Aegean islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_islands) and Crete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crete) across mainland Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece) and the Italian peninsula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_peninsula) to the Alps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alps). Facchetti proposes a hypothetical linguistic family derived from Minoan in two branches. From Minoan he proposes a Proto-Tyrrhenian from which would have come the Etruscan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_language), Lemnian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemnian_language) and Rhaetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhaetic_language) languages. James Mellaart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mellaart) has proposed that this language family is related to the pre-Indo-European Anatolian languages, based upon place name analysis.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_languages#cite_note-1) From another Minoan branch would have come the Eteocretan and Philistean languages.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_languages#cite_note-2) However, this is by no means a common view; there are just as serious attempts to link Eteocretan and Eteocypriot with Semitic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages), and mainstream scholarship takes no position. Facchetti himself claims that it is only a hypothesis.

The stele can be read in ETEOCRETAN Phoenician Semitic Mygdonian Raetic THRACIAN

it is the only connection of Thyrrenian with Thracian especially kikkoni and sappean

now if you can understand it in Albanian is because of Thyrrenian family


in Greek it can be also be explained but has many diffrences due to anatolian pelasgic than phoenician semitic

example

aviš = aged Etruscan
avils = aged Lemnian
vi-ose = lived Greek
Βι-ωνω = i live Vi-ono i m a wittness of life
Bι-ος Vi-os = Life time of a living
βαβω vavo the grand mother Vavo
ALSO IN TRACIAN AND SLAVIC
βαββε-ου vavvu the grand father today παππου
babba - Βαβα -> elderer (father and junior)
you will also find the βεβηκας vevikas very old (overaged)
Εpirotan song about Vavo βαβω slavic Baba
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVLKnVUgzRU
modern Greek (1955)
ηλικια - ηλικι-ονομαι = the sum of bi-os (life)
from Helica how many turns around Sun

In the makedonian dialect wich is near Vrygian we have Βελιος Belios = old
that becames Pelios at early Phillips times


now stop bullshit of only albanian
simply with Greek Thyrrenian it is difficult cause that stele is more Phoenician - Thyrrenian than Pelasgian.

it is like the Pyrgi tablets which are more Semitic Phoenician (Sidon) and canaanite

THAN Anatolian Thyrrenian Cretan Luwan Phillistine Cypriot (Tyre -Phoenician)

Later, in the 6th to 5th centuries BC, the name referred specifically to the Etruscans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscans), for whom the Tyrrhenian Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrhenian_Sea) is named, according to Strabo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strabo).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrhenoi#cite_note-3) In Pindar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindar),[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrhenoi#cite_note-4) the Tyrsanoi appear grouped with the Carthaginians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthaginians) (the Phoenicians of the west, where Brutas go from Lemnos)

Now if you believe That ONLY IN ALBANIAN CAN THE STELE TO BE READ THEN GO TELL THE SCIENTISTS CAUSE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrsenian_languages

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Tyrsenian_languages.png

:thinking: :thinking:
hm the map is wrong the red should not be in Italy or austria, it should be in Albania
since only in albanian language the stele can be read

they are all wrong, they simply missjudge albanian language wich is the mother of all languages Indo_european Thyrrenian and Semitic, :shocked: :shocked:
probably the first language of the world is Albanian as you claim by the

About language, firstly you have to consider this part: Pelasgian(or albanian) language, before it has split into greek and latin
Bullshit cheap propaganda again of zeus10

simply nationalist paranoia
like Hitler Only the German aryan will rulle the world
I gave you example of stele words in Greek As I also admit that is difficult to read it in pelasgian Greek although it has connection cause of being more semitic than anatolian pelasgic

like dejavu in post for Makedonians
Maybe there is world conspiracy against Alnanians By scientists, that do not explain Lemnian stele with Albanian and explain it with Raecian :wary2:



@pre-greek language, you verifie what I'm telling you. Also thanks for the materials that shows how the smallest semantic units or albanian language roots, are in every linguistic concept, name, mythological character, etc; and you are trying to tell greek morphems and you forget about roots and smallest semantic concepts, that are albanian inside those morphems...
In your approach you have to know this basic fact before you want to speak about history of that region, that Mediterranean region was a RESTRICTIVE area as a result of continued EXPANSION, that has already served as a resource creation, would later serve in the liaison function of the distribution of peoples, languages and cultures, mainly from east to west...:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


About language, firstly you have to consider this part: Pelasgian(or albanian) language, before it has split into greek and latin :petrified:

:grin: Pelasgian(or albanian) language :grin:
simply bullshit
the albanian has pelasgic words it is not the pelasgic language,
simply Cyclopean Blindness

what roots of albanian language,
albanian Language is more Romano-Celtic than pelasgian,
Pelasgian language is lost,
left behind the Aegean languages
even Cretans don't do what you do, who are real Pelasgians J2 with autochonus
simply you are a lunatic fanatic that in your next work you will us that albanians came from planet Sirius and gave language and lights to Humanity,

Albanian See also: Origins of the Albanians #Obsolete theories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Albanians#Obsolete_theories) and Albanian nationalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_nationalism)
In 1854, an Austrian diplomat and Albanian language specialist, Johann Georg von Hahn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Georg_von_Hahn), identified the Pelasgian language with Ur-Albanian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Albanian). This theory is entirely rejected by contemporary archaeological and historical circles, but retains staunch support among Albanian nationalists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_nationalists).[65] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgian_language#cite_note-64)
Attica

During the early 20th century, archaeological excavations conducted by the Italian Archaeological School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_School_of_Archaeology_at_Athens) and by the American Classical School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_of_Classical_Studies_at_Athens) on the Athenian Acropolis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acropolis) and on other sites within Attica revealed Neolithic dwellings, tools, pottery and skeletons from domesticated animals (i.e. sheep, fish). All of these discoveries showed significant resemblances to the Neolithic discoveries made on the Thessalian acropolises of Sesklo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesklo) and Dimini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimini). These discoveries help provide physical confirmation of the literary tradition that describes the Athenians as the descendants of the Pelasgians, who appear to descend continuously from the Neolithic inhabitants in Thessaly





Albanian language in ancient Egypt :grin:

watch what you write
so Albanians who are Etruscans, who are Thracians who are Phoenician who are Dorian Greeks who Are Semitic who are Proto IE who are Aryan and maybe the Persians were Albanians, or the slavic people came out from Albania

ALBANIANS GAVE LANGUAGE TO ANCIENT EGYPT

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

the trugh is that Ancient Kush Egyptian elements exist in Albanian Language as also in Greek Language from Mess people E-V13 carriers

you even make ancient Egyptians Albanians

how can I take you serious


Αλεξανδρος

Αλεξ = αλεχιω virb protect the other the next
Aλεξ-κεραυνο
Αλεξ-ισφαιρο
Αλεκ-τος
Αλεξ-ηλιον
Αλεξ-ηνεμον
Αλεκ-τωρ (rooster) Aλεκ-τορνις (protects chickens)


ανδρος

nomin o ανηρ
posessive του ανδρος

not sqender not lekka

But Αλεξανδρος,

οκ besir

Νazi = Nationalistic
and you are ablind nationalistic propaganda, not a scientiest
You see only with one eye and you dont want to cooperate in search
so for me ..........................
simply not to take you serious




THE Wide Thyrrenian family

http://files.myopera.com/ancientmacedonia/blog/pelaszgians.png

in fact modern approaches are proving that area was bigger in minor asiaand included Caria Lydia and Lyacaonia and reach to Cyprus
and the connection with thracian south slavic is under search

also misses the area of Racians and Phillistines and the city of Tyre

(plz don't tell me now that Phillistines spoke albanian, and don't create a video that Alexander was an Etruscan)
it is more simple
in Albanian language we have elements of Thyrrenian language and that is why the map is yellow in Albania, not that the Albanian language is the mother of Thyrrenean language,



Reductio ad absurdum

in another post you said that dorians were Illyrians that is why they hate Athenes etc
in this post you say that Albanians are the only pelasgians,
so what are they the Dorians? Illyrians or Pelasgians?????
cause we know from Thukididis that Athens was Pelasgian,
so the doric which you say they were pelasgian illyrian as also Kolla sais why they hate Atheneans which they were pelasgians also????? .......
Simply Absurdum

Garrick
17-02-11, 23:36
iapetoc

Besim tells his construction.

In the Slavic countries people learn that the Pelasgian language is (proto) Slavic (Slavonic).

For example, the linguist Sergei Rjabichkov has long researched and published a lot of books, one of them is:

Rjabichkov, Sergei V. 1998th Ancient texty Slavyan and adygov

Interestingly, the author claims:

Reading of a Linear A Text, Cretan tablets

Reading of the text of the Phaistos Disk

corespond (proto) Slavonic language.

http://slavonicweb.chat.ru/disk.htm (http://slavonicweb.chat.ru/disk.htm)

Total by this author Proto Slavonic languages are three:

1) the Scythian (Sarmatian) language is the Proto-Slavonic ones

2) Other Proto-Slavonic dialects are the languages of the Pelasges (the writing of Linear A, and its decorative version on the Phaistos disk) and

3) of the Etruscans.

Neander
19-02-11, 02:50
Somebody is spaming the thread with egyptian pictures.

Fustanella or kilt, is unique in Europe. Scotland, Albania, Greece (Arvanitika), and some highlanders throughout the europe, use that. It is not the same with egyptian customs.

About the thread, I think, the fact that "tartan" is found in Bajkal, doesnt mean that fustanella comes from bajkal (Azia, white mumies).

Fustanella originate in Ballkan, and Tartan originate in Asia. When the people os the stepes come to Central Europe, they intermingled with Old Balkan people who used fustanella, and then went to Britain, so they use fustanella with tartan.

But Balkan population specially, those of south, doesnt were afected by Kelts, and so their fustanella is not of Tartan, but is White Fustanella.

iapetoc
19-02-11, 08:39
Neander
Karakatsan people were white Fustanella and had white sheeps,
but after fall Of Con/polis were black Fustanella and keep black sheeps

Neander
19-02-11, 18:06
Neander
Karakatsan people were white Fustanella and had white sheeps,
but after fall Of Con/polis were black Fustanella and keep black sheeps
The same is about Malisors, which live near Montenegro. They had white Jurdia, and after the death of Skanderbeg they use black Jurdia.

Besir Bajrami
19-02-11, 19:21
The same is about Malisors, which live near Montenegro. They had white Jurdia, and after the death of Skanderbeg they use black Jurdia.
Yes, you are right, this part it's interesting that shows that even geg albanians used fustanella, not just tosk albanians.

Neander
19-02-11, 23:06
Yes, you are right, this part it's interesting that shows that even geg albanians used fustanella, not just tosk albanians.
Alexander Hilferding, a slavicized Jew who created Russian Idealism, wrote that Gegs of Sandjak region, exactly Sjenica in South Serbia, used fustanellas, like those of south Albania.

Canek
30-03-11, 19:44
greeks men use skirts like scotish, is this a coincidence?

Neander
31-03-11, 22:18
greeks men use skirts like scotish, is this a coincidence?
I don't know what are you doing here??

I am telling that from the first post:

Albanians and Scots use fustanella. Is this coincidence???

gtcc1
07-05-11, 19:02
Albanians does not belong nor to dinaric race nor to dinaric haplotype. It is mostly very short people, totaly oposite of tall Montenegrins beside them. That difference is so obvious that every Yugoslav, only by physical appearance, could recognize Albanian. I lived among Albanians for a very long period, and I am telling what I saw.
Also, as far I know there is no any kind of scientific proof that Albanians have anything in common with Illyrians, nor in language, nor in archeological findings.That Illyromania was part of Albanian national revival, the same way as it was used in Croatia with Illyrian movement.

I guess you are not well read! See Charlton Coon, Mountain of Giants, what he indicates about Albanians.

iapetoc
30-05-11, 23:42
I guess you are not well read! See Charlton Coon, Mountain of Giants, what he indicates about Albanians.

nop he is true,
Albanians do not belong to Dinaric race, they are short mostly and big heads, that is mediterrenean type,

gtcc1
08-06-11, 21:08
nop he is true,
Albanians do not belong to Dinaric race, they are short mostly and big heads, that is mediterrenean type,

Yes, whatever "he is true" means, but the fact is that he or you don't know what you are talking about. Please go to your diner and wash some dishes.

Maciamo
08-06-11, 23:01
I saw on TV that the Turks also have a kind of bagpipe, known as the tulum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulum_%28bagpipe%29). But the most interesting is that this instrument is confined to the north-east part of Tukrey, next to the Georgian and Armenian border, among the Laz, Hamsheni people, and Pontic Greeks. This is exactly the region which I associated with the cradle of R1b1b and Pre-Proto-Indo-European language, before the migration across the Caucasus to the Pontic steppes. Within Greece, the most famous bagpipes are the askomandoura from Crete. Interestingly Crete also happens to be a hotspot for R1b (at least the Lasithi plateau, which has over 40% of R1b).

The bagpipe could therefore be a genuine Indo-European musical instrument, as it is found in regions thousands of kilometres apart from each that only have R1b1b in common (e.g. Scotland/Ireland, France, Iberia, northern Italy, Germany, Albania, Crete, north-east Turkey and Armenia). R1a regions also have bagpipes (Poland, Ukraine, Iran, India) but it is far rarer than in R1b regions.

Zajaz
12-06-11, 20:26
In regard to topic, I'd say that Fustanella trace its origin back to the Illyrians and a certain section of Pre-Greeks (it's very likely Mycenians wore also a kind of fustanella). This dress could survive into mountainous areas of Illyria and Epirus, which corresponds roughly with Albania. Later on, it was spread in Greece by Albanians warriors who fought valiantly against Ottomans. With the formation of first Greek kingdom, the dress of Albanian warriors was adopted as official dress of the army.

iapetoc
13-06-11, 00:28
In regard to topic, I'd say that Fustanella trace its origin back to the Illyrians and a certain section of Pre-Greeks (it's very likely Mycenians wore also a kind of fustanella). This dress could survive into mountainous areas of Illyria and Epirus, which corresponds roughly with Albania. Later on, it was spread in Greece by Albanians warriors who fought valiantly against Ottomans. With the formation of first Greek kingdom, the dress of Albanian warriors was adopted as official dress of the army.

are you sure?
cause sarakatsan (Greeks fro Bulgaria) fustanella is also spread among Greeks, that means fustanella is not only epirotan or Greek,
besides its simmilar like ancient chiton and different from place to place,

maybe you should check ancient Greek χιτων and Byzantine Ποσδεναλλι before you determine the origin.

Besir Bajrami
13-06-11, 05:14
iapetoc,
Albanians are dinaric, alpine and mediterrenean type of race, not only mediterrenean. - Just like other componentes of identity of a culture, like language and symbols, also the Race tell us the same...

So, just like albanian language is linked whith illyrian, thracian (dacian...), etruscian, old greek, hittit... ;
...and who is the common denominator, of these languageges: Illyrian, Thracian, Hittit, Etruscan, old Greek... ?! - Of course, Pelasgian language.
- ...and why for albanian language, scientists can not decide finally from which of these above language, Albanian language is derived ?! (as we know albanian language contains words from all these aforementioned languages) - ... this "enigma" can be solved (by the way, read "Enigma" from Robert D'Angely) only when is connected directly the Pelasgian whith Albanian language.

So that's why many scholars, rightly, could not determine or Generalized Albanian alone or as part of a group of languages. Once some think that it's Centum, once as SATEM (in fact it serves as a link between these groups, it is a more proof that it stands on above these groups), somtimes of Illyrian origin, Thracian, Dacian, Etruscan, Celtic, Frigian, Hitite or sometimes as the oldest branch of the Indo-European, sometims pre-proto-Indo-European sometimes Anatolian, Paleo-Balkan language sometimes, etc.. Also, this approach are mixet more from albanian langauge "artifacts" that will be noted from Egypt, Middle East, Caucasus, Illyrian peninsula, Apenin ... all around the Mediterranean.
This confusing approach purified when proved the direct connection beetwen Pelasgian and todays Albanian language;


- Also and symbols, mythology... tell us the same thing. So the eace is also linked or a combination of dinaric, alpine and mediterrenean type of race, and stored in the "Extract of Pelasgians", or todays albanians...


__________
- Broadening as much in antiquity, the more peoples and nations emerge united with each other, originating from a common extract... In this point, albanians have preserved their language, culture and their ancient race, intact (retreated to mountains, from permanent invasions) from the winds of alienation what happened with all nations... So, when you'll study the albanian question in all its components (like many free scholars, linguist, historian, archaeologist, anthropologist, artist... did, and I mention some of them), you'll encounter elements of the most ancient language, culture, race... that have existed in the world and what is more important, is still alive today {Considering that the oldest world civilization has moved all around the Mediterranean and today with the help of scientists we find traces of albanian language, culture and race, from Egypt, Middle East, Caucasus, Illyrian (Balkan) and Apenin Peninsula... and now you can sync the input of the Mediterranean culture in World culture and finaly you can understand my approach}.
Spesifically, if we talk about Fustanella (http://www.albpelasgian.com/uncategorized/26.html), I thing that is an albanian culture element, but not only.It's a element of ancient culture and was preserved from the extract of that culture, but we have to know and to accept the fact that she was adobted from other latter cultures (like greeks does). We have old artifacts that verify the use of fustanella from Pelasgians/Illyrians long time ago... for example, this artifact is from V cent. BC http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/706...vjetmar2nx.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7060/fusgvjetmar2nx.jpg)
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7060/fusgvjetmar2nx.jpg
...found in north Illyria (Sllovenia), or this one in Durres Albania, from the IV century BC: http://zeus10.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=659772
http://zeus10.webs.com/fusgurdr6jz.jpg (http://zeus10.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=659755)
... Also we had those in Egypt but we have to know that Pelasgians (like a very old culture) were in Egypt too. Also, about pelasgian element in Egypt, take into consideration the work of linguists (+freemasons) like Granam Hancock & Robert Bauval or Giuseppe Catapano, after 40 years of scientific work, brought to light the book: "Thot spoke in albanian"(listed above)



Just like the Pelasgian language, culture and DNA is distributed as element in subsequent cultures and peoples, synonymous with this concept is when we say that in that period are distributed the Albanian language roots in those languages, because pelasgians (albanians) were here (like proto-indo-europian) ...http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=223998&l=8c1a610d6b&id=100001133356751)

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75670_147272005320577_100001133356751_223998_29716 62_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224000&id=100001133356751)

... before greeks come whith indo-europians...http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=223999&l=089c04944d&id=100001133356751)

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75670_147272008653910_100001133356751_223999_66013 31_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=224113&id=100001133356751)




Don't make me to proceed repeating the arguments, just read them and think... !

Here you are: Info +... http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page4

__________________________________________________ ___________
Albanian people belong to the older Mediterraneans according to linguistic and genetic parameters; they would have establish in the Balkans before Greeks and Slavs...
Greeks have been shown by both genetic and historical data that do not belong to the ancient genetic pool.They are relative new-comers because the Indoeuropean (pre-Mycaenian) Greeks came to the Balkanic Peninsula by 2.000 BC paid tribute to Minoans, and destroy their empire by 1.450 BC; they absorbed Minoan culture and writing system and built their own Aegean Sea empire (Arnaiz-Villena et al 1999a). Greeks remain as outliers in all our HLA genetic analyses (Table 6 and unpublished)...
__________________________________________________ ___________




http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247897&l=53a0cd559a&id=100001133356751

+
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=135963&l=bb02a77da5&id=100001133356751

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=136306&l=0a9b1dab5e&id=100001133356751

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=85371&l=5804042641&id=100001133356751

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247897&l=53a0cd559a&id=100001133356751

And please stop writing from your pseudo-nationalism approach, because in this way, you interrupt the normal flow of arguments (as we now, the science always had problems whith people like you) !

Elias2
13-06-11, 16:50
What does something found in slovenia have to do with albanians?

iapetoc
14-06-11, 00:02
iapetoc,
Albanians are dinaric, alpine and mediterrenean type of race, not only mediterrenean. - Just like other componentes of identity of a culture, like language and symbols, also the Race tell us the same...

So, just like albanian language is linked whith illyrian, thracian (dacian...), etruscian, old greek, hittit... ;
...and who is the common denominator, of these languageges: Illyrian, Thracian, Hittit, Etruscan, old Greek... ?! - Of course, Pelasgian language.
- ...and why for albanian language, scientists can not decide finally from which of these above language, Albanian language is derived ?! (as we know albanian language contains words from all these aforementioned languages) - ... this "enigma" can be solved (by the way, read "Enigma" from Robert D'Angely) only when is connected directly the Pelasgian whith Albanian language.

First Try to understand who is Zeus10 and the others, remember Zeus10 made a new Godess the Hy god!!!!!! to connect Greek ευχαν with a tomb, he found that there an ancient God name Hy!!!!
it is a science fiction story maker, like Liakopoulos
Stupid Nationalist who push Panalbanism and even in some videos they make Egyptians and Phillistines Albanians,!!!!

second
Pelasgians, they are connected with Cyprus and south minor Asia, they mostly belong to Hattians language and towrds pre-Semitic.

Pelasgians are the south and the North,
South Pelasgians are the Minoans, the Atheneans, North Pelasgians are the Pelasgian Argos and the Cadmeians,

brothers or true Pelasgians are Etruscans, possibly Troy were Pelasgians,

Pelasgian are connected with Greeks, Etruria Latin, minor Asia, ancient Illyrians,
Pelasgians also connect with upper Egypt and Phillistines,

Pelasgians origin coulld be area of cyprus and minor Asia,
they are connected with G and J Y-Dna,

Linguistic of Pelasgian,
1) it is not IE
2 it is connected with Etruscan Anatolian and Semitic,

that means
Pelasgians were not Thracians, not Celts, Not Hettits, not Vrygians,
Pelasgians language is what ever ancient in ALbanian Language that can connect not in IE with Greek Latin Turkish and Hebrew Phillistine same time.
like word Erevet Ερρεβος Erebu which exist in 3 at least languages,
aqua ωκεανος sou (turkic water) etc

so any connection with Thracian and Pelasgian is out of Discussion cause Thracian never pass the Dinaric Alps before until Strabo times and much later in Roman occupation, exept Brygians,

Now to understand the linguistic of modern Albania,

unknown language in far far ancient,
Enter the Celtic in dalmatia and Illyria,
enter the Pelasgian (Cadmeian Branch) in Illyria, the area is named Illyria by Greeks,
Enter the Vrygians in areas of east Illyria, Dardania,
Greeks colonise the coasts of Illyria,
Vrygians leave to minor Asia
Messapic Language is adopted by Illyrians (not Illyricum)
enter the Romans the Illyria is Bigger includes and others and becomes Illyricum
the chapter ancient Illyria is finished,

All the above are pure centum languages,

1040 Ad first time the word Arbanites is mentioned, the Army of Maniakis,
later Progons state,
Anju (cumans!!!) state of Alba,
Normands, Serbs, etc,
Hungric Daco-Romanians (Hunyade)
Alba Lullia of Daci
Albanian is a Satem language???
Thracian possibly vocabulary from Dacia,
some gennetic Analysis send us to Romania and Italy, hmmm
the different syntax of Arbanitika with Albanika
that means a devastation of the ancient tribe Albocense that were Daco-Thracian in Moesia had happened, the exact time is estimated at the times of Anju,
Later the Vallavan pasa, and satemization is complete.

so as you see K Rasulli is right, and all evidence are showing that Albanian is a new nation that is based uppon ancient Illyrian tribes, Aromani some south slavic, some Italians that follow Maniakis when left Italy to revolt, and of a new culture imported by Moesia,

So Albanian language is a new Language that is Based in Daci-Thracians, but has ellements from the ancient culture of Illyrians,
try to understand the difference of Illyria proprie Dicti, which was not considered Thracian not Greeks not by Romans (Strabo) from Roman Illyricum, and the Thracian ( if exist, I dont doubt simply I want you to think) in modern Albanian
then you understand who were the Pelasgian in Illyria, and what was their language,

the whole case is showing that a peacefull devastation, or a rough one (maniakis army)
had happened among 900 -1100 AD and continued until 1400-1500 AD
so the Albanoi (daco-thracian) tribes and phatrias manage after Progon 1rst, but mainly after Kastrioti to create a unification movement, albanises local ancient cultures, and from that unification movement created Albanian nation of Today.

Modern Albanians are a part of ancient Illyrians (pelasgian + Celtic) and a part old moesian Albocense (Daco-Thracian)





http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7060/fusgvjetmar2nx.jpg
...found in north Illyria (Sllovenia), or this one in Durres Albania, from the IV century BC: http://zeus10.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=659772
http://zeus10.webs.com/fusgurdr6jz.jpg (http://zeus10.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=659755)
... Also we had those in Egypt but we have to know that Pelasgians (like a very old culture) were in Egypt too. Also, about pelasgian element in Egypt, take into consideration the work of linguists (+freemasons) like Granam Hancock & Robert Bauval or Giuseppe Catapano, after 40 years of scientific work, brought to light the book: "Thot spoke in albanian"(listed above)


Well as you said in Durres
Durres <- Dyrrachium <- Epidamnos

well these fustanellas were found outside a GREEK CITY!!!!!!!!
that is why.

Slovenia was never Illyria, But Illyricum, find out why.


I wander in that mosaic what Alexander is wearing?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/BattleofIssus333BC-mosaic-detail1.jpg


Surely the name is KONTEA

now if you know about Fustanella, then tell me what is KONTEA



REMEMBER THE NAME OF KARAKATSAN (sarakatsan)
THE POLITES AND THE KASSANDREIAN,
THE BLACK FUSTANELLA FROM 1452
WHICH IS THE FIRST HISTORICALLY OF THE WORD IS AFTER THEM.

cause Con/polis had Fallen to Islam,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarakatsani



Ο λόγος για την ονομασία αυτή είναι ότι οι Σαρακατσάνοι μετά την Άλωση της Κωνσταντινούπολης (http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%86%CE%BB%CF%89%CF%83%CE%B7_%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82_ %CE%9A%CF%89%CE%BD%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%84%C E%B9%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%8D%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B7%CF% 82) φορούσαν μαύρη ενδυμασία ως ένδειξη πένθους, ενώ έσφαζαν τα λευκά πρόβατα και κρατούσαν μόνο τα μαύρα. Επίσης κατέφυγαν ως κλέφτες στα βουνά ώστε να μην υποταχθούν στον κατακτητή και να τον πολεμούν από εκεί. Έτσι οι Τούρκοι (http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9F%CE%B8%CF%89%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%AF) τους προσέδωσαν την ονομασία Καρακατσάν, δηλαδή «μαύρος φυγάς». Οι ίδιοι οι Σαρακατσάνοι άρχισαν να χρησιμοποιούν αυτό το όνομα μετά το 1812, το οποίο είναι σχετικά νέο, προσδιορίζοντας έναν λαό που προϋπήρχε του ονόματος.


Remember that Modern Fustanella is just a water resistant, you know why and how, while the fight cloth is Kontea and Posdenalli

indeed it is an ancient cloth, that remained in Balkans

Besir Bajrami
17-06-11, 18:36
What does something found in slovenia have to do with albanians?

Because in that region lived Illyrian tribes, like Japodes, Histrits, Letobiks, Golapians... (and we all know that south slavs came much latter):
+ Illyrian tribes:
http://kuksiskupialba.tripod.com/kuksi/FisetIlire.JPG

This region (Illyrian and Apenin peninsula and all Mediterranean), was an RESTRICTION area, as a result of continuous EXPANSION, that has already served as the source (genesis), later to serve in the liaison function of the distribution of peoples, languages and cultures, mainly from east to west. That's why many ancient cultures, can find similarity whith albanian culture, race and language (as an extract of pelasgians) ...

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/168670_165064460207998_100001133356751_313401_4498 038_n.jpg


...and only albanians of today (retreated to mountains, from permanent invasions), DIRECLTY represent the race, culture, language of pelasgians (as we now, illyrians were part of them): http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=23767&id=100001133356751&l=5e6b160e5a !


Also, we have to take in to consideration the phenomen of assimilationan what happent whith other illyrians. That's why only south slavs have some illyrian blood in their haplogropus, and other slavs not!

Info +

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/156363_152261951488249_100001133356751_247849_1557 68_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/59855_129386213775823_100001133356751_143992_62773 49_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/59307_129934660387645_100001133356751_146065_53225 35_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/46886_128442420536869_100001133356751_139504_40892 43_n.jpg



Old Maps:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/363506/2196/Herodotus-map-of-the-world

http://www.old-map-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/World_Map_Herodotus.jpg

http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00362/images/HerodotusWorld.jpg

Read more:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.139407142773730.23767.100001133356751&l=5e6b160e5a

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.110082529039525.4389.100001133356751&l=e76312b2b0

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.166727643375013.33089.100001133356751&l=b57fb2c0b3
...

iapetoc
17-06-11, 20:10
Besir Bajrami

I don't need any more you 're bullshit and personal science fiction stories, if you are Zeus10 you better suicide,

told you many times it is another the Illyria proprie dicti and ANOTHER the Illyricum,

Japodes Liburni there are not Illyrians Proprie dicti, try to understand it, they are not connected with Pelasgians.


enough with the B... of Zeus10, the man is Liakopoulos brother,
in your next post you will tell us that Zeus was an albanian God who lived in Ceraunia mountains,
and fustanella came from planet sirion

besides look at you.
you have either an ancient Pelasgian Avatar or a modern Nazi
wich is connected with a Daci family (you know who)
and you have an Arab-Turkish name.
Maybe tomorrow you will tell us that Fustanella is Turkish.

first try to find who are you!!! and then speak about Fustanella,
Now have you checked your Y-DNA?

All your maps are Illyricum and not Illyria so stop B......

iapetoc
17-06-11, 22:04
I saw on TV that the Turks also have a kind of bagpipe, known as the tulum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulum_%28bagpipe%29). But the most interesting is that this instrument is confined to the north-east part of Tukrey, next to the Georgian and Armenian border, among the Laz, Hamsheni people, and Pontic Greeks. This is exactly the region which I associated with the cradle of R1b1b and Pre-Proto-Indo-European language, before the migration across the Caucasus to the Pontic steppes. Within Greece, the most famous bagpipes are the askomandoura from Crete. Interestingly Crete also happens to be a hotspot for R1b (at least the Lasithi plateau, which has over 40% of R1b).

The bagpipe could therefore be a genuine Indo-European musical instrument, as it is found in regions thousands of kilometres apart from each that only have R1b1b in common (e.g. Scotland/Ireland, France, Iberia, northern Italy, Germany, Albania, Crete, north-east Turkey and Armenia). R1a regions also have bagpipes (Poland, Ukraine, Iran, India) but it is far rarer than in R1b regions.


well the Turkish name is Tulum, the Armenian, Laz, , the Greek name is Gkainda Γκαιντα in North, cause sounds like a donkey (gaidaros). Tsapouna in Islands, Zampogna in Italy.
also you can hear it as Duduk or pipiza or but rare.

official ancient Greek name is ASKOS or Ασκαυλος Askaulos while pontics called it αγγειον (Akigio). (bag, sac), (bag+pipe)

it exist also in Magna Grecia in some Grigo Villages, Greek Makedonia, and even North to Fyrom Bulgaria Albania and almost south Serbia,

Epirotan style Gaida

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8g3Hy-YKi0&feature=related

Thracian style Gaida

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sVFUwMhYIE&feature=related

Μακεδονιαν Gaida

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI5rXZDxKfU

Pelloponhsian Gaida

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1kqwJ3oVow&feature=related

Pontian Greek Ακιγιο (Aggeion Ionic Greek only, means)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsnXbuHMn9A&feature=related

Cretan Gaida

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hePe9ymSX1I


in many areas it is replaced by clarinet.


in Italy it is also common especially in south where shares the same name with Smyrna and Aegean islands, (Tsampouna, Zampogna)
But is tottaly different in sound, it is more western that eastern,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKpEMeTop_I&feature=related

Allbanian gajde

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmuwzIJvRjo&feature=autoplay&list=PL8ECA03E1FF59D8C2&index=3&playnext=2

Serbian gajdy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv4yxB7GKIc

Bylgarian kaba gaida.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu-Mw6j3RWw

Lazic dankiyo (Aggeion)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy5Olq1l54
you may have a point of right here,

the laz and Pontic and greek (not magna Grecia) is different from the others, it has not drone like the others, it is more primitive,

well you could be right, south of Colchis is the area the Greek Persian and Armenian meet.
it is also the area that Hettits believed entered minor Asia.

the most ancient Gold area is Colchis (Argonauts, golden fleece)
and later Lydia (Paktolos river)

From ancient time Caucasus was known to Greeks although name it that time Αξεινος, probably due to Pelasgian. - Hattians that lived in Greece that time,
the later connection of Pontic Greeks with Persian Laz (mithridates was laz) could be due to Aryan?
the Greco aryan point in minor asia?

Laz pontic Greeks and pre-Venetian Cretes share the same culture,
even almost same language,
there are many works about that. specially in linguistic.

Laz are considered Persian and Greeks and Georgians most relationship.

they also share Kemanes -Kemence which can br found in Pontic Greeks, Cretans, Thracians, South Italy, Greek Thracians, but not elsewhere, alternative name is lyra in Crete.

διαγγειον dakinyo Riza-lar


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2SHWQ26A-4&feature=related

http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%CF%81%CF%87%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%BF:Pontianlyra.j pg

Elias2
18-06-11, 05:16
[B]
Because in that region lived Illyrian tribes, like Japodes, Histrits, Letobiks, Golapians... (and we all know that south slavs came much latter)

The south slavic migration did not fully replace every population like you seem to think because its supports your nationalists rhetoric. Albanians as Ilyrians? Albanians are genetically related with greeks more than their northern neighbours. Genetically albanians as Illyrians is not a very strong arguement. I think you over-estimate the origins of albanians.

Besir Bajrami
18-06-11, 18:22
@ Elias2

The south slavic migration did not fully replace every population like you seem to think
Of course, that's why in Illyrian peninsula (Balkans), still exist a non-slavic nation, who call them self "sons of the eagle" (Albanians)


because its supports your nationalists rhetoric.
If you'll read little bit about Albanian history, you would understand that they have a SURVIVAL history, and a CONTINUAL RESTRICION of the territory and population (what is still going on...!). Than you'll see whith different approach this question. And finaly you'll understand that albanians are the weakest nationalists of the globe! - We should take in to consideration the facts and arguments, even that will suport or contrary of an X theory.


Albanians as Ilyrians? Albanians are genetically related with greeks more than their northern neighbours. Genetically albanians as Illyrians is not a very strong arguement. I think you over-estimate the origins of albanians
Illyrians, Thracians, Etruscian, Hellens... were cultures, not races, not nations... who were all conected whith pelasgians as autochthons. Albanians of today, are an original surivived extract of pelasgian, who keep the original culture, language and race (retreated to mountains, from permanent invasions)... all connected whith above cultures. That's why, except illyrians, thracians, etruscians... albanians have to do and whith ancient greeks, becuase only they arive to maintain their ancient identity (of these ancient cultures, who interact among themselves) in all it's components (race, language, culture...).
Gentically, todays greeks can argue their connection with the ancient Greeks, only through the Albanians assimilated gene in Greek of today (because the others are slavs, orthodox mongols... who came latter in Greece) and roots or smaller semantic units of meaning in their language, who are pure Albanian. As with the south Slavs in the north, who try to explain their genetic link with the Illyrians, through a part of Illyrian gens assimilated in south Slavic. It's very simple to undersand, I don't know why you complicate these historic facts !

@ iapetoc
... don't loose your control man! - Why you always attempt to deal with my personality and not whith "what I say!" - Remember the rules of communication: Do not take whith the form, but whith the essence!
P.S: Even that "illyricum" was "illyricum" because there were living illyrian tribes, anyway, all these maps what i've posted above, were before creation of "illyricum" as an administrative unit:)

+

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/75700_141696295878148_100001133356751_198452_32918 84_n.jpg

These maps tell us the same. Pelasgian territory, is in fact the Illyrian territory, or the opposite:
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/59307_129934660387645_100001133356751_146065_53225 35_n.jpg


http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/156363_152261951488249_100001133356751_247849_1557 68_n.jpg

...

_________________________
Just to refresh the discussion (whill be nice, for the sake of the communication rules, to respond about every sentence one by one... and not only to offend and nothing else):

The credits belong To Pellasgians
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+credits+belong+To+Pellasg ians+&aq=f

"Q. What was Greece before the time of the Hellenes.
A.Strabo in his Geography Strabonis Book 7
Hecataeus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus that before the time of
the Greeks it was inhabited by barbarians. Yet one might say that in the ancient times the whole of Greece was a settlement of barbarians


Q.When Hellenes are mentioned for the first time

A.Thucydides/History_of_The_Peloponnesia n_War_-_Book_I/

There is also another circumstance that contributes not a little to my conviction of the weakness of ancient times. Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name(Helen)........went by the names of the different tribes, in particular of the Pelasgian.......The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name(helens)..........He does not even use the term barbarian, probably because the Hellenes had not yet been marked off from the rest of the world by one distinctive appellation...gradually acquired from the connection the name of Hellenes; though a long time elapsed before that name could fasten itself upon all(after 8th century BC )

Homer Born ca. 8th century BC

Conclusion NO Helenes before 8 th century

Q.Which were the population of greece before Helenes
A. Acheans or Argives, Danaio, Cecropes, Arcadians

Q Acheans , Argives, Danaio, Cecropes, Arcadians belong to pelasgian nation? (Modified )
A. Yes...................Why?

1.Argos, the kingdom of Agamemnon, famous for its cities Mycenae and Tirynth, where have been discovered in our time priceless treasures of a buried Pelasgian civilization, had also been a country of the Pelasgians. Argos is given the name Pelasgia by Eschyl (Prom. v. 860), Euripides (Orestes, v. 675, 849, 1611; Iphig. in Aulida, v. 1494; Erakles mainomenos, v. 462), Eustathius (Comm. In Dionysium, 347), and Strabo (lib. VIII. 6. 9).
2.Arcadia, a region surrounded by mountains and inhabited by a pastoral people with simple and patriarchal mores, had once the name “Pelasgia” (Steph. Byz. ‘Arkadia; Herodotus, lib.I. 146).
3.Beotia also, a country rich in sheep flocks and herds of cattle and horses, with the famous Parnassus and Helicon mountains, with their fine valleys dedicated to the divinities, had been inhabited in ancient times by Pelasgians (Strabo, lib. IX. 2. 25; Ibid. IX. 2. 3).
4.The entire Peloponessus, a country covered in vast woodlands, crisscrossed by numerous rivers and streams, with very favorable conditions for a pastoral life, had been called in antiquity Pelasgia, as the historians Acusilaus (fragm 11, Frag. Hist. graec. I. p. 101), and Ephorus (fragm. 54, ibid. p. 248; Pliny, lib. IV. 5. 1) tell us.
5.Thessaly, the most fertile and beautiful territory of ancient Greece, situated between Olympus, Ossa, Pelion and Pindus mountains, had once bore the name Pelasgicon Argos (Homer, Iliad, II. v. 681; Strabo, Geogr. VIII. 6. 5), Pelasgicon pedion (Strabo, Geogr. Ix. 5. 22), meaning the plain of the Pelasgians, and Pelasgia (Hecateus, Fragm. 334, in Fragm Hist. graec. I. Ed. Didot, p. 25; Ibid, vol. IV. P. 501; Eustathius, Comm. In Dionysium v. 427).


Q.What are Hellenes?
A. Herodotus:
from The History, c. 430 B.C., I.56-59

we must pronounce that the Pelasgi spoke a barbarous language. If this were really so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi, must have changed their language at the same time that they passed into the Hellenic body...The Hellenic race has never, since its first origin, changed its speech. ...... It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians. The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian race which never greatly multiplied.

So they(helenes) were scanty in numbers and little powers, therefore the culture and territories belonged to Pelasgians.

Q.Who are pelasgians?
A.Strabonis Book VII
....And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably Greece is held by the barbarians--Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly by the thracians,and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the Thesproti, the Cassopaei,the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes--Epeirotic tribes.

Q. Who are Illyrians, and Epeirotes and Macedonians(old)
1.-----A. SCANDERBED (Albanian national hero)

knowledge of my race. My elders(for all albanians not Scanderbeg only-my note) were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies."

"I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep(ALBANIANS-my note). But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"
2.------DICTIONARIVM -LATINO-EPIROTICVM
http://www.mdevaan.nl/research/Blanchus.pdf


Herodotus Clio pg 13 These were the Lacedaemonians and the Athenians, the former of Doric, the latter of Ionic blood. And indeed these two nations had held from very, early times the most distinguished place in Greece, the being a Pelasgic, the other a Hellenic people, and the one having never quitted its original seats, while the other had been excessively migratory; for duringthe reign of Deucalion, Phthiotis was the country in which the Hellenes dwelt, but under Dorus, the son of Hellen, they moved to the tract at the base of Ossa and Olympus, which is called Histiaeotis; forced to retire from that region by the Cadmeians, they settled, under the name of Macedni, in the chain of Pindus. Hence they once more removed and came to Dryopis; and from Dryopis having entered the Peloponnese in this way, they became known as Dorians. What the language of the Pelasgi was I cannot say with any certainty. If, however, we may form a conjecture from the tongue spoken by the Pelasgi of the present day- those, for instance, who live at Creston above the Tyrrhenians, who formerly dwelt in the district named Thessaliotis, and were neighbours of the people now called the Dorians- or those again who founded Placia and Scylace upon the Hellespont, who had previously dwelt for some time with the Athenians- or those, in short, of any other of the cities which have dropped the name but are in fact Pelasgian; if, I say, we are to form a conjecture from any of these, we must pronounce that the Pelasgi spoke a barbarous language. If this were really so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi

Herodotus, Polymnia ix.) .....The Ionians furnished a hundred ships, and were armed like the Greeks. Now these Ionians, during the time that they dwelt in the Peloponnese and inhabited the land now called Achaea (which wasbefore the arrival of Danaus and Xuthus in the Peloponnese), were called, according to the Greek account, Aegialean Pelasgi, or "Pelasgi of the Sea-shore"; but afterwards, from Ion the son of Xuthus, they were called Ionians.

Herodotus Urania pg 9 The Athenians, when the region which is now called Greece was held by the Pelasgi, were Pelasgians, and bore the name of Cranaans; but under their king Cecrops, they were called Cecropidae

The Islanders furnished seventeen ships, and wore arms like the
Greeks. They too were a Pelasgian race, who in later times took the name of Ionians for the same reason me reason as those who inhabited the twelve cities founded from Athens.

The Aeolians furnished sixty ships, and were equipped in the
Grecian fashion. They too were anciently called Pelasgians, as the
Greeks declare.

Iliad Rapsodies 1-6 The Dardanians were led by brave Aeneas, whom Venus bore to Anchises, when she, goddess though she was, had lain with him upon the mountain slopes of Ida. He was not alone, for with him were the two sons of Antenor, Archilochus and Acamas, both skilled in all the arts of war

Homerus Iliad Rapsodies i) Hippothous led the tribes of Pelasgian spearsmen, who dwelt in fertile Larissa- Hippothous, and Pylaeus of the race of Mars, two sons of the Pelasgian Lethus, son of Teutamus


New authors:
Dorian Greeks settled in Illyria before 2000 BC, ancient regions of the Balkan peninsula occupied by Indo-European-speaking tribes, including the Dalmatians and Pannonians. Warlike and piratical, they withstood (6th cent. B.C.) Greeks attracted by their iron mines and later attacks by Macedonians.
The Romans conquered them and set up (168-167 B.C.) the province of Illyricum.

The following ex. give a clear answer about argives, danaus, peloponesus and arcadians, tyrrenoi people, thesaly(when achiles comes from) etc

1.Strabonis Book V Chapter 2 ... And Thessaly is called "the Pelasgian Argos..

1.Hecataeus, makes Pelasgus king of Thessaly (expounding Iliad, 2.681-684)

2.Sophocles takes the same view (Inachus, fragment. 256) and for the first time introduces the ethnonym Tyrrhenoi, apparently as synonymous with "Pelasgians

3. Hellanicus(Supplices I, sqq.), repeats this identification a generation later, and identifies this Argive or Arcadian Pelasgus with the Thessalian Pelasgus of Hecataeus.

4.The historian Ephorus preserves a passage from Hesiod that attests to a tradition of an aboriginal Pelasgian people in Arcadia, and developed a theory of the Pelasgians as a warrior-people spreading from a "Pelasgian home", and annexing and colonizing all the parts of Greece.

.------
and here a part of the list of people who participated in war
......
PHLEGYAI

Capital: Trikke

"They who held Trikke and the terraced place of Ithome, and Oikhalia, the city of Oikhalian Eurytos, of these in turn the leaders were two sons of Asklepios, good healers both themselves, Podaleirios and Makhaon. In their command were marshalled thirty hollow vessels." - Homer, The Iliad 2.729

ORMENIOS

Capital: Ormenios

"They who held Ormenios and the spring of Hypereia, they who held Asterion and the pale peaks of Titanos, Eurypylos led these, the shining son of Euaimon. Following along with him were forty black ships." - Homer, The Iliad 2.734

DOROS

At the time of the Trojan War the kingdom of Doros was ruled by the Herakleidai (sons of Herakles). They did not take part in the Trojan War since the Heraklid suitor of Helene, Tlepolemos, had been exiled to the island of Rhodes.

LAPITHAI

Capital: Gyrtone

"They who held Argissa and dwelt about Gyrtone, Orthe and Elone and the white city of Oloosson, of these the leader was Polypoites, stubborn in battle, son of Peirithoos whose father was Zeus immortal, he whom glorious Hippodameia bore to Peirithoos on that day when he wreaked vengeance on the Pheres [the Centaurs] and drove them from Pelion ... Following in the guidance of these were forty black ships." - Homer, The Iliad 2.738
Remember..... Hippothous led the tribes of Pelasgian spearsmen

PERRRHAIBIA

Capital: Kyphos, Dodona

"Gouneus from Kyphos led two and twenty vessels, and the Enienes and the Perrhaibians stubborn in battle followed him, they who made their homes by wintry Dodona, and they who by lovely Titaressos held the tilled acres, Titaressos, who into Peneios casts his bright current: yet he is not mixed with silver whirls of Peneios, but like oil is floated along the surface above him." - Homer, The Iliad 2.748
..........


So Dorians (hellenes) did not take part in war, period.

Go to google and punch "dorians origin"
You will see " Greeks Origin"
These people are the only greeks history knows and their roots are from Illyria+epirus=arberia(in old times was bigger than that)


Dorian

Any member of a major division of the ancient Greeks. Coming from the north and northwest, they conquered the Peloponnese c. 1100 – 1000 BC, overran the remnants of the Mycenaean and Minoan civilizations, and ushered in a dark age that lasted almost three centuries, until the rise of the Greek city-states. They had their own dialect and were organized into three tribes. Patterns of settlement determined their alliances in later Greek conflicts. To Greek culture they gave the Doric order of architecture, the tragic choral lyric, and a militarized aristocratic government. They assimilated into Greek societies in some cases, but in Sparta and Crete they held power and resisted cultural advancement.

North and northwest means-Illyria+epirus

Minoan (3000-1500 BC)
"Minoan" culture on Crete, with large population and rich palace-centres. Non-Greek speakers.(Linear A - still undeciphered)

Dark Age" (transition to Iron Age) (1100-850 BC) Dorians enter in Greece About 1100 (b.c.) the Dorians entered the area, armed with iron spears and shields and whipped out the Myceans.
Break-up of Mycenaean civilization; Greek settlements throughout the Aegean Islands and the coast of Asia Minor. (Linear B script used for palace records)

Geometric and Archaic Period (850-480 BC)
Alphabetic script adapted from Phoenician in Greece, ca 750.
Emergence of the classical Greek city-states, governed by family groups or dictators (mainly 7th-6th century),or democracies (begun by Athens, 5th century)

High Classical Period (480-323 BC)
Greek city-states flourish until overshadowed by the powerful Macedonian kings. Philip of Macedon rules Greece; his son Alexander campaigns as far east as India, conquering Persia and Egypt, before dying in 323 BC

Hellenistic Period (323-146 BC); Roman Republic (to 44 BC)
Alexander's empire fragments into Greek monarchies in Macedonia, Syria and Egypt.
Roman overseas expansion begins in 208 BC;
Hellenization of Roman myth & religion.
Greece becomes a Roman province.
The Roman Republic ends with a seizure of power by Julius Caesar (assassinated 44 BC)

c.1100 The Dorians destroyed Mycenae. According to legend, Timenos, Chief of the Dorians, founded the Argos Regime in Peloponnesus. Xanthos, Chief of the Aeolians, founded the Thebes Regime in Boeotia.
Do you understand now that Achaeans were wiped out by Helenes(Dorians).Therefore they dont belong to Hellenes culture. On the top of that Achaeans had only very limited territory occupying only the northern part of the Peloponnesus on the Gulf of Corinth. What about the rest?

Ionians, Arcadians and Aeolians were originally pelasgians and joined the helenic body only shortly before the begining of High Classical Period.

1. ---- Argos, the kingdom of Agamemnon, famous for its cities Mycenae and Tirynth, where have been discovered in our time priceless treasures of a buried Pelasgian civilization, had also been a country of the Pelasgians. Argos is given the name Pelasgia by Eschyl (Prom. v. 860), Euripides (Orestes, v. 675, 849, 1611; Iphig. in Aulida, v. 1494; Erakles mainomenos, v. 462), Eustathius (Comm. In Dionysium, 347), and Strabo (lib. VIII. 6. 9).
2.---- Arcadia, a region surrounded by mountains and inhabited by a pastoral people with simple and patriarchal mores, had once the name “Pelasgia” (Steph. Byz. ‘Arkadia; Herodotus, lib.I. 146).
3.---- Beotia also, a country rich in sheep flocks and herds of cattle and horses, with the famous Parnassus and Helicon mountains, with their fine valleys dedicated to the divinities, had been inhabited in ancient times by Pelasgians (Strabo, lib. IX. 2. 25; Ibid. IX. 2. 3).
4.---- The entire Peloponessus, a country covered in vast woodlands, crisscrossed by numerous rivers and streams, with very favorable conditions for a pastoral life, had been called in antiquity Pelasgia, as the historians Acusilaus (fragm 11, Frag. Hist. graec. I. p. 101), and Ephorus (fragm. 54, ibid. p. 248; Pliny, lib. IV. 5. 1) tell us.
5.---- Thessaly, the most fertile and beautiful territory of ancient Greece, situated between Olympus, Ossa, Pelion and Pindus mountains, had once bore the name Pelasgicon Argos (Homer, Iliad, II. v. 681; Strabo, Geogr. VIII. 6. Pelasgicon pedion (Strabo, Geogr. Ix. 5. 22), meaning the plain of the Pelasgians, and Pelasgia (Hecateus, Fragm. 334, in Fragm Hist. graec. I. Ed. Didot, p. 25; Ibid, vol. IV. P. 501; Eustathius, Comm. In Dionysium v. 427)
________
Let's live in peace with our neigbour(GREEKS) because the History belong to us."

iapetoc
18-06-11, 22:26
Myceneans were IE speakers, Greeks, Homeric was their Language,

Dorians were IE speakers,

Vrygians were IE speakers,

Thracian were IE speakers,

Pelasgian invasion started from far ancient Ancient, sesklo/dimini times is the prove,

Now Balkan people before Pelasgians we don't know what Speak,

Pelasgian entered at before 3500 BC to 550 last colony and tribe,

Pelasgian Language is link among Latin- Anatolian - Ugaretic (pre-aramaic)

there are 6 Pelasgian sub -tribes

1 The Minoans + Iones the south of thessaly
2 the Aeolians + Thettalians North of Thessaly
3 The Cadmeians who conguered the area from North Peloponese to Epirus and entered today Albania creating the Illyria propie Dicti,
4 the Thyrrenians who migrate from minor asia to Italy
5 The Peleset who are the Palaistine Palasgians and hetaians
6 The Sidetic Pelasgian who stay in Anatolia

the case of Phoeneician as Pelasgian is not for discus here, they are considered Brothers
and a few minor

now Celts had run west of Dinaric the mix of Celts and Pelasgian created ancient Illyria,
surely they could reached Pellasgian Argos (Celts).

that is why Albania is considered IE
Later IE Vrygians occupy Illyria proprie

there is also the Connection of a Daci-Thracian tribe Albocense who are connected with Albania,
that means that modern Albanians are also as Pelasgian as Celtic as Daco-Thracian,

Lapatae is the limit of Illyria,

Japodes and etc are not Pelasgians or Illyrians, they have tottaly miss of some Genes of Pelasgians

Now about Daci-Thracian case search the Germidava city. the location will help you a lot to understand the difference among Illyria and Illyricum,

It does matters to understand that, so to say to Zeus10 to correct his mistakes.

I have to repeat to understand

Illyrians is a mix of Celts and North Pelasgians and Cadmeian Pelasgians,
Albanians are ancient Illyrians and Dac0-Moesians


The name of the peninsula is not Illyrian peninsula but Αιμος Hemos Peninsula,
Later the roman name it Vulcania Βουλκανια
and later the ottomans Balkan Balcan

if you want to baptise the peninsula ....... with another name ...... hmmmmmmm

Pelasgian never passed the Lapatae.

Japodes and rest at least genetically have no link with Pelasgians.

now I want a favour,
I want you to search the Germidava city,
that will help you understand many
do you you know where is estimated?

Elias2
19-06-11, 16:40
Of course, that's why in Illyrian peninsula (Balkans), still exist a non-slavic nation, who call them self "sons of the eagle" (Albanians)

See your ignoring the fact Illyria wasn't just in NORTHERN albania, it extanded up to slovenia and serbia. The slavs that came down didn't replace the entire populations of these areas, that's a myth, yet they are genetically really different to Albanians.



If you'll read little bit about Albanian history, you would understand that they have a SURVIVAL history, and a CONTINUAL RESTRICION of the territory and population (what is still going on...!). Than you'll see whith different approach this question. And finaly you'll understand that albanians are the weakest nationalists of the globe! - We should take in to consideration the facts and arguments, even that will suport or contrary of an X theory.

Albanians history prior to 15th century is unknown because nothing is written about them. Everything you say is assumed with no evidence. The first piece of albanian history evidence is a recording of a church chant done recorded by italians. You just "fill in" the blanks with peoples that lived around that area as descrbed by GREEK sources.



Illyrians, Thracians, Etruscian, Hellens... were cultures, not races, not nations... who were all conected whith pelasgians as autochthons. Albanians of today, are an original surivived extract of pelasgian, who keep the original culture, language and race (retreated to mountains, from permanent invasions)... all connected whith above cultures. That's why, except illyrians, thracians, etruscians... albanians have to do and whith ancient greeks, becuase only they arive to maintain their ancient identity (of these ancient cultures, who interact among themselves) in all it's components (race, language, culture...).
Gentically, todays greeks can argue their connection with the ancient Greeks, only through the Albanians assimilated gene in Greek of today (because the others are slavs, orthodox mongols... who came latter in Greece) and roots or smaller semantic units of meaning in their language, who are pure Albanian. As with the south Slavs in the north, who try to explain their genetic link with the Illyrians, through a part of Illyrian gens assimilated in south Slavic. It's very simple to undersand, I don't know why you complicate these historic facts !I don't complicate anything, you seem to have a double standard when you look at albanian history compaired to others. You say peopels are cultures not races, then you say modern greeks are not ancient greek because of "albanian" assimilation? what does albanians have to do with anything about ancient greece? because you think you are palasgian with no evidence?

You're just 100% nationalistic albanian who think your countries origins are some great ancient culture with NO evidence to back it up, you just fill in the blanks with whatever you like.

Wheather YOU like to admit it or not, the first piece of evidence of albanians came from the middles ages, NOT before, so theories all you want because that's all it is, theory.

I could say with MORE certainty than you that, as supported by the first piece of albanian evidence recorded in the late middle ages,, that albanians could have been on of the cultures that the eastern roman empire let settle on their lands in return for chritianization. This is alot more realistic considering the albanians language has very little latin or greek in it that have been around that area for centuries.

Gigi
09-08-11, 09:49
The origin of the name is not as the origin of one thing. F.ex. one nation can borrow any invention and creating his own word for that, and another nation can create invetion and borrow the word.

In albanian and yugoslavic languages is not any word for "linen", it is borrowed from turkish, but does that mean that all Balkan lacked linen before coming of turks who were probably more primitive then natives??
Hi....Im interesting to know the meaning of Gadje...what does it mean for..hmm u said for Albanians....in my language it means someone who is not from my stock ,same like for Jews goya....and another word gadia...is something to wear on?

Thanks...

Besir Bajrami
03-09-11, 04:21
Elias:
See your ignoring the fact Illyria wasn't just in NORTHERN albania, it extanded up to slovenia and serbia. The slavs that came down didn't replace the entire populations of these areas, that's a myth, yet they are genetically really different to Albanians.

A:
You proceed whith the confusion !
I'm telling exactly the same, that Illyria wasn't just in today Albania, but it extanded up to Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia and Serbia. And yes, the slavs that came down didn't replace the entire illyrian population, that's why there exist a non slavic population = Albanians


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/294689_216071025107341_100001133356751_532598_9341 57_n.jpg
{...or this one from Wadham Peacock - Albania, the foundling state of Europe: ...The three Shkypetar States, Illyria, Epirus and Macedonia, rose against Rome…
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183690_168234603224317_100001133356751_331544_3466 726_n.jpg }
... and the same DNA of albanians, in todays greeks and slavs, or illyrian DNA in these south slavic population, is from that part of illyrians that were assimilated in slavic or in greek (from the church). That's why north or east slavs, didn't have these haplotypes in their DNA, but only the south slavic states who formed their contries, after invasion in Illyrian peninsula, from the VII century after C.

What about todays greeks:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/180623_167535863294191_100001133356751_327128_5968 696_n.jpg
Greek constitution in 1821

This is the approach that today Greece and "new greek nation" is formed. Here's the constitution of 1821 in Greece
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/168967_1852707323909_1427574150_2122262_1227707_n. jpg

Here is translated in english:
http://i55.tinypic.com/29qjyuu.jpg

...is clearly seen in what basis the Greek state was formed, thus clearly stating that the Greeks had no need to talk Greek, or to have Greek blood, enough was the religion (ie Orthodox) and this policy made possible the absorption (or assimilation) of many other ethnicities.


Elias:
Albanians history prior to 15th century is unknown because nothing is written about them. Everything you say is assumed with no evidence. The first piece of albanian history evidence is a recording of a church chant done recorded by italians. You just "fill in" the blanks with peoples that lived around that area as descrbed by GREEK sources.

A:
Wrong again.
Albanian Ties with Illyrian (also read from the page 2 in this topic)

Many lines of reasoning convince linguistic scholars that the Albanian people and language originated with the ancient lllyrians.
1. The national name Albania is the name Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by the geographer Ptolemy of Alexandria about A.D 150.

2. The Albanoi territory then centered at Albanopoli, between Durrës and Kruja, the heartland of modern Albania.

3. Four peoples speaking their own languages lived in the Balkans in ancient times: the Greeks in the south, the Macedonians in the center, the Thracians in the east and the lllyrians in the west. Today Albanian is spoken in most of the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.

4. Those few language elements which are known as Illyrian can be explained through the Albanian language, and no other.

5. A linguistic comparison of Albanian with ancient Greek and Latin indicates that Albanian was formed as a language at an earlier period than those other ancient languages.

6. Archeological and historical data witness to the cultural continuity from the lllyrians to the Albanians. Continual contact with other peoples and languages has left its traces in the Albanian vocabulary. Foreign words have been borrowed from Greek, Latin, Slavic and Turkish, yet Albanian has been preserved as a separate language, its grammatical system remaining virtually unchanged.

7. Linguists point out many technical similarities between Illyrian and Albanian words.

8. Borrowings from northern Greek and from Latin incorporated in the Albanian language reflect the well-known political and cultural pressures on Illyrian territory. Linguistic studies indicate that Albanian developed from Illyrian as a distinct language between the fourth and sixth centuries A.D. Thus ancient borrowings of Greek and Latin vocabulary could not have moved directly into Albanian, but into Illyrian, through which these words entered into Albanian. Historical linguists point out that these borrowings from ancient Greek were in the Dorian dialect and penetrated into Illyrian through Corinthian commercial colonies in Corfu, along the Adriatic coast, and through border towns. Latin borrowings came later during the lengthy Roman occupation (NAlb 1986, 3:32). These ancient Greek and Roman contacts occurred precisely in the territory of old Illyria, leaving their traces in the Illyrian language from which they later passed into the Albanian language.

9. Illyrian toponyms, ancient Illyrian place names for cities, rivers and mountains, are preserved today in the Albanian language, and only in Albanian. The names of Balkan villages usually lasted only a few centuries,
for villages were often destroyed altogether during wartime. Cities lasted longer, so their names were usually older. But rivers, lakes and mountains endured through the centuries, and their ancient names usually continued in use. Even new inhabitants usually adopted the old names, just as American colonists adopted many old Indian place names in the United States. Accordingly, Albanian linguists have found more than 300 names of ancient cities like Shkodra, rivers like the Drin and mountains like Tomor which were mentioned by ancient Greek and Roman geographers or historians and which are still in use in Albania. Scholars show how the rules of historical phonetics explain any changes of spelling over the centuries from Illyrian to Albanian, as Scupi to Shkup, Scodra to Shkodra, Lissus to Lezha, Durrachium to Durrës, Drinus to Drin, Mathis to Mat. Certainly the Albanian language is derived from the Illyrian (Cabej 1985, 42-62).

10. Illyrian proper names continue in use among present-day Albanians. Many of the individual Illyrian names of persons were preserved on epitaphs and inscriptions on coins. Then the names of other people like the Illyrian rulers Agron and Teuta were mentioned by Greek or Roman historians. The Albanian scholar Mahri Domi claims to have identified 800 of these (Liria 15 October 1982; 1 November 1983).

11. The numerous marine terms for sea plants and animals in the Albanian language show that these people lived along the coast on what would correspond with Illyrian territory (AT 1983, 1:44-45).

12. Then there are other words in Albanian which Greek or Roman writers long ago explicitly identified as Illyrian in origin.
Down through the centuries many once great peoples have been either destroyed or assimilated by others so as to disappear altogether. But the Illyrian people with their distinctive dress, music, customs and especially their language have persisted in their shrinking territory along the western shore of the Balkan Peninsula. With no record or tradition even hinting at their extermination or assimilation or migration, one can only assume their unbroken historical continuity. There seems to be no question but that the present-day Albanians are the historically uninterrupted descendants of the lllyrians who were known to have inhabited that same region in early Greek and Roman times.

Or, Albanian ties whith Pelasgians:

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/248649_191081940939583_100001133356751_456492_3076 199_n.jpg
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/75176_144832825564495_100001133356751_211177_71097 77_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75176_144832828897828_100001133356751_211178_57755 56_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/75176_144832832231161_100001133356751_211179_59854 5_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75176_144832835564494_100001133356751_211180_77640 1_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/154873_144833582231086_100001133356751_211184_5480 059_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/154873_144833588897752_100001133356751_211185_6263 514_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/154873_144833592231085_100001133356751_211186_7726 58_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/154873_144833595564418_100001133356751_211187_4177 230_n.jpg

Taken from: The Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric times to the present, Edwin E. Jacques – 1995
http://books.google.com/books?id=IJ2s9sQ9bGkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Albanians%3A+an+ethnic+history+from+prehist oric+times+to+the+present++By+Edwin+E.+Jacques&hl=en&ei=UvzhTP2FL8qD4QbZ8eyJCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

...as Milan v. Sufflay (Slavic scientist was murdered by the Serbs just because of his studies for the Albanian autochthony) think: Even if there will not have historical news, as those of Ptolemy for Albanoi tribe, traces itselft and influence of Latin in Albanian language would suffice to set albanians right in the residence of Adriatic coast

... and thousands of books who have conclusions like these:

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260119_195116143869496_100001133356751_474128_6230 467_n.jpg


Elias:
I don't complicate anything, you seem to have a double standard when you look at albanian history compaired to others. You say peopels are cultures not races, then you say modern greeks are not ancient greek because of "albanian" assimilation? what does albanians have to do with anything about ancient greece? because you think you are palasgian with no evidence?

A:
I see that you dont understand at all... I said Illyrians, Thracians, Helens... were cultures, not races itself, but they as a whole of course that were a race, and were the same race... pelasgian race.
... and yes, ask a greek (scientist) and he will tell you what albanians have to do whith ancient helens (because, as I see, this field is not in your interest and you don'y have information).

-https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/166347_152258544821923_100001133356751_247827_5861 44_n.jpg

or
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/181941_168234583224319_100001133356751_331543_1718 584_n.jpg
-https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184222_168285246552586_100001133356751_331737_4469 555_n.jpg

Elias:
You're just 100% nationalistic albanian who think your countries origins are some great ancient culture with NO evidence to back it up, you just fill in the blanks with whatever you like.

A:
Wrong again. I thing you are pseudo-nationalist, even racist, because you dont want to read or to listen about albanians at all, just because you hate them (you are strong instrumentalized from the slavic propaganda).
As J.G.Hahn write, Albania has no history of sustained, the name of this country comes out occasionally, and as a rule only when the events in the asylum application is closely related to its neighbors, just rest or just put us out this link, put back in place its ancient darkness, and so happens that a whole history of domestic confined to a few fragments, which brought about some remarkable personalities, or build a genealogical tree of several small dynasties.
When such fragments are not very far from one another, the historian tries to fulfill through combinations gaps, whith inductive and logical procedures. But, as is done when such gaps are composed not by tens or by hundreds of years, but up to a thousand years? History of Albania has gaps such that the time of Strabo and Ptolemy, until the Norman invasion mentioned this place several times when the country became a battlefield of a new barbarian horde. Once the fog disappear from this place, it appears to us as a new place ...

- So, i want here to tell you something about these people, about this language, culture, race...who lived isolated for thousands of years, and whith surviving history, because you dont know nothing about them, but your pseudo-nationalist approach, dont let me to do that...

Elias:
Wheather YOU like to admit it or not, the first piece of evidence of albanians came from the middles ages, NOT before, so theories all you want because that's all it is, theory.

I could say with MORE certainty than you that, as supported by the first piece of albanian evidence recorded in the late middle ages,, that albanians could have been on of the cultures that the eastern roman empire let settle on their lands in return for chritianization. This is alot more realistic considering the albanians language has very little latin or greek in it that have been around that area for centuries.

A:
If you want to confuse the fisrt book in albanian language in 15 century, whith history of albanian people or albanian language, than you are illiterate in these questions. Although many have already deciphered ancient pelasgian inscriptions whith the Albanian language...

-https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/300298_137887382969731_100002454098645_227171_1799 650_n.jpg
...anyway, antiquity of a language is measured with the comparative model. For example, the etymology is part of this measurement (do you heard sometimes about smalles semantic units that shape meaning of other words?)... and the result is:

-https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/59307_129934663720978_100001133356751_146066_69430 84_n.jpg
-
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110088502372261_100001133356751_66233_785211 1_n.jpg

From the second page in this topic, i transmit you houndreds of BOOKS! ... which came from american, german, french, english, italian even from slavic and greek scientist, who write against your way of thinking here, but you pass them silently to say something in your own, just because you wanna transmit hate here and nothing else !


P.S:
I found more than a thousand books of this type, but it is useless to transmit part of them here, since you still have a closed mind, and your pseudo-nationalism, not allow new information in your brain. Let's try from slavic scientist, trying to relax you in some way :P

-https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260375_195124033868707_100001133356751_474291_2594 974_n.jpg

And finally:
-http://oi53.tinypic.com/jhcvf5.jpg
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

Besir Bajrami
03-09-11, 05:05
Now let's focus in the topic and stop the pseudo-nationalist or racisit aproach! Open your mind and start learning something new...

Let's talk about folk or
Costumography + Cosmogonic symbols in albanian national costumes (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.214339561947154.48697.100001133356751&type=1)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/267383_214663051914805_100001133356751_529152_2738 754_n.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.214339561947154.48697.100001133356751&l=fa2d960ee9&type=1


*https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/282133_214340705280373_100001133356751_528401_5841 068_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/267233_214340748613702_100001133356751_528402_7170 522_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/229636_214340791947031_100001133356751_528403_8774 13_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/215006_214340818613695_100001133356751_528404_3732 54_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=214340875280356&set=a.214339561947154.48697.100001133356751&type=1&permPage=1https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/184078_214340875280356_100001133356751_528405_5982 89_n.jpg




https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205900_214663065248137_100001133356751_529153_4805 960_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281387_214663085248135_100001133356751_529154_2481 158_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/251543_214340311947079_100001133356751_528387_3729 043_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/215059_214340338613743_100001133356751_528388_6115 801_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/285510_214340378613739_100001133356751_528389_2467 684_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/282116_214340411947069_100001133356751_528390_5919 137_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/222997_214340435280400_100001133356751_528391_6435 427_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184023_214340461947064_100001133356751_528392_5960 07_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/267227_214340501947060_100001133356751_528394_2039 327_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262860_214340521947058_100001133356751_528395_2142 340_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/285477_214340545280389_100001133356751_528396_5602 831_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262932_214340575280386_100001133356751_528397_4059 655_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205924_214340601947050_100001133356751_528398_6483 802_n.jpg

Besir Bajrami
03-09-11, 05:19
... https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/283378_214340638613713_100001133356751_528399_7903 587_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/282144_214340658613711_100001133356751_528400_2947 006_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/262892_214339638613813_100001133356751_528377_1171 376_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/267308_214340161947094_100001133356751_528380_1572 813_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/184148_214340181947092_100001133356751_528381_7673 846_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/282588_214340211947089_100001133356751_528382_5405 76_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/223054_214340235280420_100001133356751_528383_1909 28_n.jpg

...

Besir Bajrami
03-09-11, 06:20
Thraco-Illyrian... and now Albanian tatoos, similar with embroidered symbols in albanian national costumes above.
(Britannica: There is no well-defined difference between the aboriginal Thracians and the native Illyrians. All of the Thracian tribes and the Illyrian tribes practiced TATTOOING, which distinguished them from the Celtic tribes)...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084515705993_100001133356751_66187_558543 2_n.jpg

This is the key. Symbols are precisely those that resist against time and the latter are exactly those who faithfully maintain the same meaning they have also had thousands of years ago. Albania is a real treasure because often times has stoped and stories transmitted orally from remote villages to have a unique chronic type that comes from the depths of a chronic timings resent ever written. Albanian tattoos, a tradition almost disappeared and little studied and collected (as a whole unfortunately albanian symbolism) is a source and a node from where you can come to different answers and provides incentives for research.
In order pictures, tattoos are collected in northern Albania, a job with decades, thanks to prof. Gezim Uruçi. For example, carve in the photo above is very special and IS NOT THAT THE Christian cross is carved in stone, but the cross symbol HYLLI (Star, or divine) pagan symbol or DIELLI (the Sun). Besides it also has other interesting characters such as the swastika, triangle, star, moon, sun, ring, two rings, etc..
Look at them and keep them somewhere that have not yet seen the light of the publication were taken directly from Fatos Baxhaku, from Gezim Uruçi manuscript, which he has published yet.
Mystical tattoos from the old people in Highland of Albania (isolated location for thousands of years)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084525705992_100001133356751_66188_255027 _n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084549039323_100001133356751_66192_517416 0_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/181689_168538579860586_100001133356751_332919_6261 099_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/181689_168538586527252_100001133356751_332920_5896 640_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084539039324_100001133356751_66190_115775 7_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084565705988_100001133356751_66194_415883 2_n.jpg

...

ultimo_m
11-09-11, 03:56
For those who doubt that Illyrians are not the ancestors of Albaninas just have a look at the name of the rulers of Illyria and compare them with Albanian language and albanians name, just try to do it my brothers, it doesnt cost anything, just try!

Sile
11-09-11, 05:34
For those who doubt that Illyrians are not the ancestors of Albaninas just have a look at the name of the rulers of Illyria and compare them with Albanian language and albanians name, just try to do it my brothers, it doesnt cost anything, just try!




where are these names.?
All I now is that the Northern Illyrian tribes had only women as chiefs and the southern illyrian tribes had all men as chiefs except 1 , queen Teuta who replaced here husband Agron.
Teuta is a celtic name

ultimo_m
12-09-11, 02:50
as i can see you dont know too much about iliryans ,, even the two names you know, the first Agron is an Albanian name with an albanian meaning , the second name Teuta has a celtic meaning but you should know that even albanian people use this name for the honor of their ancestors and that doesnt mean that albanians are celtic but it makes a connection between Ilyria and Albania ,,, i have another question for you people , do you know what is the meaning of the word Ilyria (its origin) ?

Elias2
12-09-11, 03:55
I know where the word Ilyria originated but I want to hear your story...

zanipolo
12-09-11, 07:39
as i can see you dont know too much about iliryans ,, even the two names you know, the first Agron is an Albanian name with an albanian meaning , the second name Teuta has a celtic meaning but you should know that even albanian people use this name for the honor of their ancestors and that doesnt mean that albanians are celtic but it makes a connection between Ilyria and Albania ,,, i have another question for you people , do you know what is the meaning of the word Ilyria (its origin) ?

Illyria from Illyroi which in Greek has meaning of 'the conquerors of Wilusa'. ...

or are you talking about

Lyria from illyria which is a girls name from IIRC shakespeare's Twelth Night

or you mean
Illyris graeca .......which is the only true illyrian people which lived nest to the greeks

ultimo_m
13-09-11, 23:57
I know where the word Ilyria originated but I want to hear your story...
I am sorry to disappoint you but i dont like to tell stories ...

ultimo_m
14-09-11, 00:14
Illyria from Illyroi which in Greek has meaning of 'the conquerors of Wilusa'. ...

or are you talking about

Lyria from illyria which is a girls name from IIRC shakespeare's Twelth Night

or you mean
Illyris graeca .......which is the only true illyrian people which lived nest to the greeks


I am curious, where have you read these things ?! not all the things that you search in google are true

Elias2
14-09-11, 00:22
I am sorry to disappoint you but i dont like to tell stories ...

LOL of course you can't tell stories about the "albanian" meaning of Illyria because it hasn't been invented yet. Albanian and FYROM share the same desire to invent and distort history for their own liking.

Besir Bajrami
14-09-11, 04:21
@ Sile
Some celtic name in illyrian people dosen't mean that illyrians were celts :P
Also you have a lot of illyrian emperors of rome, whith roman names, but they still were illyrians

- I have an arabic name from Islamic culture (that my family accepted these last years), but I'm not arab at all... in the other hand, my father's name is Isak, but he's not a Jew at all...

- Names are characterized on the basis of many components (from religion, culture, subculture, etc.) and those that albanians consider them as national names, actually were Illyrian names too.


@ Elias
I gave you tons of materials in last pages, that you have to take into consideration for debate if you have something to say, and don't pass silently as always to catch whith someone's word, who dont know the history as it should.

By the way, Illyria has pure an albanian meaning:
1. I lir = free (I'm free= Une jam i lirë; or free people)
2. ill or yll = Star; Like firs king of Illyrians - Bardhyl - Bardh=white; Yll-Star. Also Ar (Is antonym. Before was used about the meaning of the sun, now more is used about the meaning about the human. As "shqiptar" - shqip=eagle; ar=human)
Which one do you want to take ? ;)

+ Do you have a albanian name: Over 60 names: http://www.behindthename.com/bb/fact/32704
+ http://www.aboutnames.ch/albanian.htm
+ Illyrian word=Albanian words: http://www.illyrians.org/illyrian-alb.html
+ many Illyrian..............................Albanian.... .................English words from the page 4 in this topic: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page4 ... dont make me to repeat the arguments, or don't talk about them, if you don't even read at all. I wonder, how can you speak scientifically, if you don't even read the arguments :useless: - read the albanian-illyrian ties too (just read something man:)...

+ I want to make you know also, that we Albanians in recent years (before the '90) were stopped from slavs the naming of children in albanian meaning that has to do whith history, as Ilir, Agron, Bato, Bardhyl, Alban, Arbër, Dardan, Taulant, Kreshnik... and my father was in jail for 11 months only beacuse my brother was named Ilir - So, now you can think how deep was the repression of invaders to stop the albanian national memory... even the stoping of the basics human rights, like is the naming of your son.

By the way, if you want to talk about names, I have other tons of materials, but after replying me about these in previous pages, in the last page at least.

... So after all these arguments, why you still proceed to be so pseudo-nationalist in your aproach ?!
(science has suffered a lot from people like you)

@ zanipolo
Graecus was the name given by the Romans to an Illyrian Epirotic tribe, the Graes. The name Graecus is said to be frequent in Etruscan onomastic. Also said to be from Graikos, the inhabitants of Graia in Boeotia. Perhaps not coincidentally, one may mention the Albanian village of Greci in Campania (Italy). From a root gr-k having the notion of raucous or having a desagreable voice. The Illyrian speech sounded unpleasant to a Roman ear
http://www.michel-desfayes.org/namesofcountries.html

Elias2
14-09-11, 08:02
No, science has suffered alot from people like you. Earliest albanians recounts come from the MIDDLE AGES, not before. I told you before that Illyria extended past albania into the old yugoslavia, then you respond saying the slavs came down and replaced them. Unless there was widespread genocide against the Illyrians from the incomming slavs, the people who inhabit todays bosnia, dalamatia, slovienia, should have DNA similar to albanians... the thing is albanian DNA is closer to greeks, so there goes your theory.

If you want to understand where albanians came form you should start by studying the Gheg language and not the Tosk which was influenced by greek when the albanians came down south into Epirus in the high middles ages.

If you want to know my opinion, the "albanians" or shiptars, where a nomadic group the Byzantines allowed to settle in their land in return for christianization as was done frequently in that time period. Byzantines would christianize nomadic turks then hire them as mercenaries, the albanians were also mercenaries during the middles ages, I don't see this as any different.

Study the old Gheg language, pre-Tosk standardized, and where on earth other languages are/were similar, then you'll find out where shiptars came from.

Sile
14-09-11, 10:14
@ Sile
Some celtic name in illyrian people dosen't mean that illyrians were celts :P
Also you have a lot of illyrian emperors of rome, whith roman names, but they still were illyrians

- I have an arabic name from Islamic culture (that my family accepted these last years), but I'm not arab at all... in the other hand, my father's name is Isak, but he's not a Jew at all...

- Names are characterized on the basis of many components (from religion, culture, subculture, etc.) and those that albanians consider them as national names, actually were Illyrian names too.



I agree, but I was stating that the illyrians in the north where different from the ones in the south. It was stated that the true illyrians where from Montenegro to epirus and the northern ones where different. this is also found in the DNA.

As for Albanians, you initially never claimed you where illyrians during history and all I found is that albanians where from Dacian tribes.

Besir Bajrami
14-09-11, 18:10
@ Elias 2
How old are you ?!

I think you are a spamer... don't spam if you don't have nothing to argue. I answered you already many times, but you like parrot continues to repeat the same word: "what YOU think" !

That's because you don't have the culture to debate, you don't EVEN READ a part of hundreds of studies (not what I think) that have been made on these issues and I mention hundreds of them. I know that the positions or attitudes are hard to change, especially when we have dealing with the whole machinery propagandists of slavic invaders, just because history gives the right to Albanians about autochthony... but you are ready to make us aliens, just not to have connection whith Illyrians as people before slavs in this Peninsula, where still is left a non slavic nation - Albanians.

P.S: I told you so many times why we have some DNA haplotypes in common whith south slavs (more whith south slavs and not whith other slavs), and why whith greeks... read them and reply.
Also I trasmit you thousands of "pree midle age materials", that you have to READ. When you are brainwashed, or poisoned by pseudo nationalism, you act like a dazzling and sometimes it's hard just to read !

Elias2
14-09-11, 19:09
@ Elias 2
How old are you ?!

I think you are a spamer... don't spam if you don't have nothing to argue. I answered you already many times, but you like parrot continues to repeat the same word: "what YOU think"[/QUOTE]

What I think is based of IMPERICAL evidence, linguistics, DNA, records, events. You are basing it off pure geography, geography that doesn't even MATCH what Illyria was. You take anything you find and overemphisis anything common with albanians.


That's because you don't have the culture to debate, you don't EVEN READ a part of hundreds of studies (not what I think) that have been made on these issues and I mention hundreds of them. I know that the positions or attitudes are hard to change, especially when we have dealing with the whole machinery propagandists of slavic invaders, just because history gives the right to Albanians about autochthony... but you are ready to make us aliens, just not to have connection whith Illyrians as people before slavs in this Peninsula, where still is left a non slavic nation - Albanians.

You still think that the slavs that came to the balkans, commited genocide on the population before? get over that, it didn't happen.


I told you so many times why we have some DNA haplotypes in common whith south slavs (more whith south slavs and not whith other slavs), and why whith greeks... read them and reply.
Also I trasmit you thousands of "pree midle age materials", that you have to READ. When you are brainwashed, or poisoned by pseudo nationalism, you act like a dazzling and sometimes it's hard just to read !

Albanian DNA is very different from your northern, classical "Illyrian" lands; and have much more in common with Greek DNA, stop ignoring this huge fact.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

The distinctivness of the Gheg language should be the biggest piece of evidence that it came from the outside in. Like I said before study the Gheg language and where similar languages originate, then you know where shiptars came from. I've read around that it is similar to old caucasian languages, I will try to find the studies on that.

P.S. I've re-read your "evidence" on the last page and I must say, basing this thesis on costumes is not very solid, and Iapetoc did a very good job refutting most of your other points.

So don't say I have a nationalistic approach when you try to fit a circle into a square slot.

Besir Bajrami
14-09-11, 22:04
MATCH[/B] what Illyria was. You take anything you find and overemphisis anything common with albanians.

I'm waiting your evidences... because mine are from linguistics, DNA, records, events + antropology, history, art... but you repeat only the same words as I see (what YOU think)...




Than what ? - Slavs are Illyrians and they invated them self, or what you'r trying to say ?!


piece of evidence that it came from the outside in. Like I said before study the Gheg language and where similar languages originate, then you know where shiptars came from. I've read around that it is similar to old caucasian languages, I will try to find the studies on that.

Ghegs are from north Illyrian tribes, tosks are from south illyrian tribes... and they have the same words in different intonation and emphasis. {Gea (dhea/dheu...) means eardh/land/ground... also Tok means the same}.
And remember that if you take only these in Europe as Illyrians... than these illyrians are one root about albanian people... but if you take these in asia minor as illyrians to, than these illyrians collectively are represented by albanian language, culture, Dna...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184222_168285246552586_100001133356751_331737_4469 555_n.jpg

In this level, Illyrians - Pelasgians are the same people.

[QUOTE
P.S. I've re-read your "evidence" on the last page and I must say, basing this thesis on costumes is not very solid, and Iapetoc did a very good job refutting most of your other points.

If you read something... It will be very courageous act to reply me one by one about every word, whith contra evidence, like I did.
And yes, Iapetoc thinks that arvanites are the old greeks (or helens)... and i think the same... and now start learning about the ethnicity of arvanites ;)

Elias2
14-09-11, 23:22
I'm waiting your evidences... because mine are from linguistics, DNA, records, events + antropology, history, art... but you repeat only the same words as I see (what YOU think)...

DNA; "evidence" is mute because you think slavs eradicated albanians from the former yugoslavia, this is your #1 dream, and #1 reason your theory holds no water.

take a look at the chart again, and look at albania and compaire it to bosnia, vastly different;

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/IllyrianTribes.jpg/600px-IllyrianTribes.jpg

Linguistics; we have almost nothing about Illyrian language, the coins that are excavated have greek on them, we have nothign to compaire, there is no linguistic evidence to connect albanians to illyrians. You might give examples on similar sounding words for tribes, but the generation gap, and taken into account language evolution, it isn't much to go on. Alot of different languages can take illyrian tribal names and find somethign similar in theri vocabulary.

Records; what records did you have that connect albanians with Illyrians? the earliest albanian record is a church recording in the middles ages.

Archeaological, you show a statue wearing a dress from an ancient greek city and you say its Illyrian, I don't need to comment on this.



Than what ? - Slavs are Illyrians and they invated them self, or what you'r trying to say ?!Slav is a name imposed on them from other european people that stuck. Slav is not a name they came up for themselves, just like how the Byzantines never called themselves that, it just stuck because a historian called them it. People call shiptars albanians, same deal.

Was there a south slav migration? of course, I don't deny there was, but I don't think for a second the original inhabitants dissapeared into outer space.





So many times I have to say that this is one more fact that slavs are not whith the same DNA whith illyrians or albanians, pressed back where they collected now... and that DNA what they have in common, are from illyrian, or albanian DNA what was assimilated in slavic (no matter that this what happens by genocide, or just from slavic domination)So you do believe in a "genocide" theory. Read what I wrote before, your genocide theory hasn't got a shred of evidence, the evidence we do have tells a different story.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

DNA doesn't lie.


.. also arvanites (albanians) or illyrians in south, they call them self greeks today, only by the religious division that became the creation of the Greek state, orthodox albanian are the best greeks now, and many of them fought against muslim albanians in north-west greeks... so, in greece are to many arvanites, what they feel like greeks, that's why we have the same dna whith them... for these words I say... i transmit you documents, facts... from so many components in last pages... read them, because I'm bored to repeat you the same thing that you pass silentlySo every greek is albanian then? or just the "best greeks". I talk about this later.






Ghegs are from north Illyrian tribes, tosks are from south illyrian tribes... and they have the same words in different intonation and emphasis. {Gea (dhea/dheu...) means eardh/land/ground... also Tok means the same}.
And remember that if you take only these in Europe as Illyrians... than these illyrians are one root about albanian people... but if you take these in asia minor as illyrians to, than these illyrians collectively are represented by albanian language, culture, Dna...
In this level, Illyrians - Pelasgians are the same people.First off, you are quoting a book that appears to be well over 100 years old if they say albania is apart of european Turkey, alot has historiography has been done since then.

Secondly, thats alot of statesments with no evidence to back it up. I'll re-iterate; the first written acknowledgment of albanians in albania came from the middles ages. Written acknowledgment of albanians in Southern italy are also in the middles ages, Albanians were used as mercenaries, similar to other other nomadic newcommers in Byzantium, I'm just pointing out facts.





If you read something... It will be very courageous act to reply me one by one about every word, whith contra evidence, like I did.
And yes, Iapetoc thinks that arvanites are the old greeks (or helens) too by culture... and i think the same... and now start learning about the ethnicity of arvanites
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/13001350ALBANIANMIGRATIONS.png

Judging by the migration patterns on the map above, albanians and greeks have similar DNA not because every Greek is an arvanite but because shiptars invaded and assimulated Greek Epirus (proto-albanians). Just like how slavs invaded and assimulated the people of the former yugoslavia (illyrium) area you claim was full of albanians.

Another thing I would like to mention is that you said I called albanians aliens to the balkans, I just want to make something clear, I don't think the albanian people are alien, or should I say the people that live in albania, I just think albanian ethos is foreign, much like turkish, hungarian, ect.

Before the arrival of shiptars could the people of albanian be Illyrian? Maybe, but I think its more plausible that albanians used to be Dorian.

Besir Bajrami
15-09-11, 04:03
@Sile, I don't agree when you say that today DNA tell us the same that north illyrians were different whith south illyrians, because you don't have today north or south illyrians, all illyrians are colected in today Albania, even that there are some illyrian blood or dna in slavic and greek populations, from the assimilation process in a part of illyrians... so that blood is a mix and don't represent the illyrians south or north as it was. So, don't take an example of south slavic DNA as a whole, like an ancient illyrian DNA...
Also, the links whith dacians and albanians that you had find, are are understandable because dacians were from Thracian, or for someone they were Illyrians too, but if we go deeply in this question, we can see that Thracian and Illyrians can be the same people... that's why and for albanians scientists think that they are the direct Thraco-Illyrians descendant.
But I agree that there were differences in illyrian tribes itself, every tribe has their own history but I dont agree that south Illyria was from today Montenegro to Epir, this was later, when illyrians started to draw themself... because there was an illyrian tribes in Asia minor too (these can be considered as south illyrians, or south-east if you want:)

@ Elias2
Where were all these albanians than (and if history and legend affort no record that they were migrated from somewere and all those cultural links, in the broad sense of this word, whith ancient cultures of the same region), if not in central Illyria or drawn in the mountains from greek invasions (colony) from south, and slavic too from north ?!
+ Read National Geographic:
"Thus pressed back, The Illyrian, Epirot and Macedonians clans consolidated themself in what geography knows as Albania"
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/294689_216071025107341_100001133356751_532598_9341 57_n.jpg

or Britannica:
"The albanians are the most ancient race in southeastern Europe. History and legend affort no record of their arrival in Balkan peninsula"
http://oi53.tinypic.com/jhcvf5.jpg

+ Read Britannica (from Illyria to Albania) about this period: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/12472/Albania/42643/The-Byzantine-Empire
"The tribes of southern Illyria, however—including modern Albania—averted assimilation and preserved their native tongue..."
"In the course of several centuries, under the impact of Roman, Byzantine, and Slavic cultures, the tribes of southern Illyria underwent a transformation, and a transition occurred from the old Illyrian population to a new Albanian (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/12527/Albanian) one..."
"As a consequence, from the 8th to the 11th century, the name Illyria gradually gave way to the name, first mentioned in the 2nd century ce by the geographer Ptolemy of Alexandria, of the Albanoi tribe, which inhabited what is now central Albania. From a single tribe the name spread to include the rest of the country as Arbëri and, finally, Albania. The genesis of Albanian nationality apparently occurred at this time as the Albanian people became aware that they shared a common territory, name, language, and cultural heritage..."

I enjoy to answer you whith books:)
The native Illyrians and Thracians of the occupied regions retired into the mountains, where they remained unnoticed till the eleventh century, when they emerged as Albanians and Vlachs
Studies on the demography of the Byzantine empire: collected studies - "ETHNIC CHANGES IN THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE IN THE SEVENTH CENTURY" - PETER CHARANIS

I can transmit you all day materials, but you are poisoned whith hate, that's why you accept easily the propaganda in relation to your subjectivity... so it's all vain for you to learn something new (for you), because your mind is closed in this subject.

...it's so boring to talk whith someone like you. I asked you by the way to reply me about the last pages, not when I talk to you like in MSN in the last reply, not when I talk to you in subjective level (about wether for example:P), but i transmit you objective evidences that are waiting for you in last pages... you already have all the answers, and you pass them like nothing was transmited!

The answer of your claims are here (not to be repeated):
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page5
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page2
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page4

+... for the origin, language, race, culture of the Albanians
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.139407142773730.23767.100001133356751&l=5e6b160e5a&type=1

I see that you have problem whith learning... If you don't have something personal (like it can be hate against a nation, or race, or culture....) than i have to teach you this: First, you have to open your mind about new sources... than stop for e while and reflect... think... than make a stand in relation to what you've learned... what is still relative whith other new sources... so proceed to have an open mind...


You:
DNA; "evidence" is mute because you think slavs eradicated albanians from the former yugoslavia, this is your #1 dream, and #1 reason your theory holds no water.

Me:
When the south slavs came from the VII century, there were living indigenous people, called Illyrians. So that area wasn't empty - Even that gradualy many illyrians become slavic, but they (as e big culture) did not disappeared completely from the earth... there are linguistic (like latin and greek influence in albanian language that meand albanians were there in that time + some names, toponyms, hidronyms wich survive the changing from the invaders... + measured with the comparative model of albanian language whith others + etymology = albanian/illyrian the same language), cultural (gods or paganism, symbols, songs, clothing...), race (the same dinaric + alpic and mediterranean race), dna, etc, that links directly albanian whith illyrian people. Sorry that albanians have to represent them, but these are evidences (linguistical, cultural, historical, antropological, folklor, geographical, and logic too if you want...) :S
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260375_195124033868707_100001133356751_474291_2594 974_n.jpg

You:
take a look at the chart again, and look at albania and compaire it to bosnia, vastly different;

Me:
Of course that there mustbe differences, because Illyrians(albanians) and slavs(bosnians), are not the same people, but the haplotypes in common what they have, are as a result of part of assimilated Illyrians into the Slavic nation...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152259364821841&l=624a62f9a4https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165765_152259364821841_100001133356751_247832_9668 27_n.jpg

...this phenomenon has continued and still continues today in that line what are meeting the Slavs and Albanians... and assimilation is made only in one side, from an albanian to slavic (as conquering force that has the greatest impact in population). In my contry (Macedonia) for example, only in few last years, we have lost cities wich were full with albanians (like Monastir, Kumanovo, Ohrid, Prespa, even Skopje, Struga, etc. and some continue to be pressed back in albanian territory, some others change their nationality in slavic, whith the help of the church. All orthodox albanians in Macedonia were change their ethnicity in slavic, just like them in Greece)

You:
Secondly, thats alot of statesments with no evidence to back it up. I'll re-iterate; the first written acknowledgment of albanians in albania came from the middles ages. Written acknowledgment of albanians in Southern italy are also in the middles ages

Me:
If you want to confuse the fisrt book in albanian language in 15 century, whith history of albanian people or albanian language, than you are illiterate in these questions. Although many have already deciphered ancient pelasgian inscriptions whith the Albanian language...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/300298_137887382969731_100002454098645_227171_1799 650_n.jpg

...anyway, antiquity of a language is measured with the comparative model. For example, the etymology is part of this measurement (do you heard sometimes about smalles semantic units that shape meaning of other words?)... and the result is:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/59307_129934663720978_100001133356751_146066_69430 84_n.jpg

+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110088502372261_100001133356751_66233_785211 1_n.jpg



https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/268398_195124163868694_100001133356751_474298_6401 231_n.jpg

Page 45
It will be easier to confirm our opinion on the origin of Albanian Pelasgian, since this language is kept constant in his greatest traits over the centuries until today, according to historical facts.
As already predicted the German scientist Muller, Albanian will give us the key to the solution of several problems related to linguistic and ethnographic literature Greco-Latin.
Appointed Pelaka Skype or by Albanians living in Epirus, Albania, Macedonia and Italy, Arber by Albanians in Greece, this dialect is formed from a few thousand words and monosyllables bisyllabic, roots dry and arid without prefixes or suffixes some exceptions.
Excluding neopelasgian words, Latin or Greek, Turkish, Slavic or other, the skeleton appears in its nakedness idiom hard, almost eolodorien or wind, approaching all-in-fact of dialects in the epigrams etched old, or sung by the rhapsodies and Aedes oldest Greek.

Page 49

Rhapsodies in Homer, despite all the corrections implied by the Athenians, we find many words in use among the Homeric Albanians, which argues for the antiquity of the Albanians.


Page 57

The Albanians finally mourn their dead in the Homeric way women (date, the Albanian-oAoXu xXatmoi;, oXoXi5Ço>), repeating the words izi, oïzi = black, unhappy.

Homer used this word once oizôc Curiously, the word zi, Zia returned to each moment in the archaic inscription found on Lemnos, cited by the Honourable Dr. Apostolides.

This word means in Albanian sepulchral still mourning and phrase na zia erd wind that we came into mourning.

What makes some scientists argue that the language of the inscription resembles Albanian, this relic of Pelasgian, especially as the island of Lemnos was home exclusively to the Pelasgians until the time of Miltiades, who occupied
Conclusion:

The inclusion of the island of Lemnos has been written in language Pelasgian, the Pelasgians were not completely absorbed and they are back with their descendants, shqiptar or Albanians, as well as history and linguistic prove.

http://books.google.com/books?id=qFgaAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA57&dq=%3A+l%27inscription+de+l%27%C3%AEle+de+Lemnos+a +d%C3%BB+%C3%AAtre+%C3%A9crite+en+langue+p%C3%A9la sgienne%2C+les+P%C3%A9lasges+n%27ayant+pas+%C3%A9t %C3%A9+compl%C3%A8tement+absorb%C3%A9s+et+nous+les +retrouvons+chez+leurs+descendants%2C+les+Albanais +ou+Skypetare&lr&ei=CxDzS6bhL4WyywTWk8X6DA&cd=1#v=onepage&q=%3A%20l%27inscription%20de%20l%27%C3%AEle%20de%2 0Lemnos%20a%20d%C3%BB%20%C3%AAtre%20%C3%A9crite%20 en%20langue%20p%C3%A9lasgienne%2C%20les%20P%C3%A9l asges%20n%27ayant%20pas%20%C3%A9t%C3%A9%20compl%C3 %A8tement%20absorb%C3%A9s%20et%20nous%20les%20retr ouvons%20chez%20leurs%20descendants%2C%20les%20Alb anais%20ou%20Skypetare&f=false

- For more linguistic evidences, see also page nr. 4 in this topic:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page4

- From the second page in this topic, i transmit you houndreds of BOOKS! ... which came from american, german, french, english, italian even from slavic and greek scientist, who write against your way of thinking here, but you pass them silently to say something in your own, just because you wanna transmit hate here and nothing else !



https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263127_195116090536168_100001133356751_474126_4449 404_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/268529_195116060536171_100001133356751_474125_5767 531_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/268972_195116123869498_100001133356751_474127_1096 457_n.jpg

You:
Records; what records did you have that connect albanians with Illyrians?
Me:
See the illyrians ties whith albanians in the last page :)

You:
Archeaological, you show a statue wearing a dress from an ancient greek city and you say its Illyrian, I don't need to comment on this.
Me:
I will comment... Fustanella is greek ?! when all the world knows that is an albanian traditional costume of the all Albanians, latter was in use only by Tosk Albanians(until today).
Search about Fustanella - http://www.google.com/#q=the%20Alban...6d7fcb6d497136 (http://www.google.com/#q=the%20Albanian%20fustanella%2C%20which%20was%20 adopted%20by%20the%20Greeks&hl=en&source=lnms&tbs=bks:1&psj=1&ei=n8ZUTeeoKY7CswaO593cBg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=6&ved=0CAsQ_AUoBQ&prmdo=1&fp=d46d7fcb6d497136) ...{"fustan"-dress in albanian (and in no other language); "funt/d"-the lower part of the dress; "an"-side (or the lower side of the dress - Fustanella), also fút (whith accent at "u"), is the name of that type of clothing, which we put forward at the bottom of the body, when we have to work something.... like freemasons today:)}...

You:
I just think albanian ethos is foreign, much like turkish, hungarian, ect.
Me:
Info + In this evidence, turks are that part of illyrian or pelasgian dna, what were assimilated in new comers ethnicity, so is not talking about mongols :)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/307956_152265138154597_100001133356751_247897_3644 388_n.jpg

The Encyclopædia britannica- a dictionary of arts, sciences ... Volume 1 Pg. 483
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/71667_139408166106961_100001133356751_187139_67413 47_n.jpg


And the new trend that I see in the anti-Albanian propaganda is dividing the name Albanian from Shqiptar, because speaking in the name of albanians have some problem whith albanian name in ancient time... and now what to do? - Let's take the name Shqiptar, how albanians call themself in their language, because this name can be better to atack maybe :S

But you don't know why albanians call themself shqiptar (sons of the eagle). That's because albani tribe, was one tribe of illyrians... and albanians today are a result of illyrians, macedonians and epirotes tribes (pelasgians)... and the name albani is not properly presented them. But sons of the eagle have to do whith this:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/68833_139418649439246_100001133356751_187319_71211 55_n.jpg

or

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260119_195116143869496_100001133356751_474128_6230 467_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263664_195318003849310_100001133356751_475249_3112 002_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/259824_195124127202031_100001133356751_474296_4560 981_n.jpg


+ The oldest surviving inhabites are Albanians, descedants of group of people known as Illyrians, the Thracians and the Dacians: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/75670_147272011987243_100001133356751_224000_72593 40_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/269840_195123923868718_100001133356751_474287_2793 525_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263017_195118213869289_100001133356751_474201_4681 111_n.jpg

Europe and the Turk: a pattern of alliances
Dorothy Margaret Vaughan
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/295741_271701312843363_151427651537397_1252933_168 3867_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/262274_195118097202634_100001133356751_474195_3956 048_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262635_196590577055386_100001133356751_480110_4863 425_n.jpg

And let's finish whith this one for today ;)
If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
http://books.google.com/books?id=tPEaAAAAYAAJ&q=If+there+is+a+truly+autochthonous+race+in+the+wo rld+it+is+certainly+the+Albanian+race,+as+it+is+fo rmed+of+the+descendants+of+the+Pelasgians+and+has+ kept+for+centuries+the+unique+qualities+of+energy+ and+intelligence+which+characterized+its+ancestors .&dq=If+there+is+a+truly+autochthonous+race+in+the+w orld+it+is+certainly+the+Albanian+race,+as+it+is+f ormed+of+the+descendants+of+the+Pelasgians+and+has +kept+for+centuries+the+unique+qualities+of+energy +and+intelligence+which+characterized+its+ancestor s.&hl=en&ei=3ExxTsqdAsqA4gSE0JHKCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

... even that and the name Albani, is used in the antiquity about the same old people of Europe, like Albanians in Scotland and so many other places around the Mediterranean, like Maciamo said in the first page: "...the Indo-European R1b people supposedly arrived in Albania around 2100 BCE, during the Maliq III culture (http://books.google.com/books?id=IJ2s9sQ9bGkC&lpg=PA11&ots=YIJQPjjPBJ&dq=maliq%20III%20culture&pg=PA11#v=onepage&q=maliq%20III%20culture&f=false)... the Bronze Age reached Scotland almost exactly at the same period. Both could be offshoots from the Unetice culture from Central Europe. Who knows, perhaps this common source of IE people called themselves "Alba(n)" ?

Also, about maps, you have to understand that they don't describe the autochthony always, but they are the result of expensions (invasions). We have survival history and as you go deeper in time, will see that our territory is larger. Restriction (contraction) of our territory is continuous occurrence since prehistory, we can't boast with any map, except the oldest ones that comfort us a little bit (because contraction is lower).
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152261951488249&set=a.110082529039525.4389.100001133356751&type=1
We have also occupations maps that there is no Albania, but this does not mean that there was no Albanian ...
In fact these are maps that invasions are documented. Even just on the basis of maps of this kind, neighbors claim territories. And not whith autochthony.


P.S.:
I'll tell you something: Albanians have a surviving history and they don't care about history, or to tell you who were, or to know more about these things... Albanian nationalism is 0... that's why these people who still survived remained around separated borders from the year 1913 (for the last time that we were divided), still can't make their natural state, to reach the point (o)zero, like every nation in Europe, because now we are in - (minus). The institutions don't care about these things too... the primary task about us was to survive from invaders... and now is to make money, because the poverty has been a permanent problem about us, this fact make terrain about predatory neighbors, to continue with their claims to take the whole country.
I'm interesting about history, only because I am angry whith the poor anti-albanian propaganda which circulates from the southern Slavs and Greeks, only because they still want to tear apart the territory of the Albanians wich is left and the right of autochthony make nervous the predatory neighbors.

...but these studies about the language, culture, symbolism, antropology, history of the albanians... are done from foreign scientists (Germans, French, British, Americans, Italians, and even some truth seekers Slavic and Greek scientists). They have observed a very old language, very ancient symbolism, old race and very old model of culture at all, of these survival people that are trying to Self-isolate themself in mountains, from permanent invasions. But if for the scientists albanians are treasure, guarded from the modern deformation, the dark side of this fact is the ignorance of the survivors and cultural inclination/trend/propensity what is recorded in DNA and have to pass more than 6,000 years to alter fundamentally

Elias2
15-09-11, 06:58
I see that you have problem whith learning... If you don't have something personal (like it can be hate against a nation, or race, or culture....) than i have to teach you this: First, you have to open your mind about new sources... than stop for e while and reflect... think... than make a stand in relation to what you've learned... what is still relative whith other new sources... so proceed to have an open mind...

I don't have a problem with learning, it just seems you are fasinated in connecting albanians to some ancient language, the thing is, no one speaks a ancient language anymore, why do you think albanians are different? becauce you are one?



Me:

When the south slavs came from the VII century, there were living indigenous people, called Illyrians. So that area wasn't empty - Even that gradualy many illyrians become slavic, but they (as e big culture) did not disappeared completely from the earth... there are linguistic (like latin and greek influence in albanian language that meand albanians were there in that time + some names, toponyms, hidronyms wich survive the changing from the invaders... + measured with the comparative model of albanian language whith others + etymology = albanian/illyrian the same language), cultural (gods or paganism, symbols, songs, clothing...), race (the same dinaric + alpic and mediterranean race), dna, etc, that links directly albanian whith illyrian people. Sorry that albanians have to represent them, but these are evidences (linguistical, cultural, historical, antropological, folklor, geographical, and logic too if you want...) :SMaybe those "inhareted" cultural icons you are talking about that the Illyrians had now the south slavs have are because the south slavs are the Illyrians, with the slavic peopls absorbed. See with you its always they have these elements because we gave it to them some distant time ago with no evidence it was even albanian to begin with. And you keep on saying Illyrian languge, can you please give me one example of an incription with Illyrian on it? I don't think there is any.



Of course that there mustbe differences, because Illyrians(albanians) and slavs(bosnians), are not the same people, but the haplotypes in common what they have, are as a result of part of assimilated Illyrians into the Slavic nation... These differnces arn't small... they are pretty large. The two main groups for albanians, J2 and E1b1b make up 50%. In bosnia, I2 is 50% by itself, with little J2 and half of E1B1B. Ignore these facts though, because they don't help you at all.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152259364821841&l=624a62f9a4




If you want to confuse the fisrt book in albanian language in 15 century, whith history of albanian people or albanian language, than you are illiterate in these questions. Although many have already deciphered ancient pelasgian inscriptions whith the Albanian language...That I would like to see, considering Albanian didn't even have a written language untill recently, I guess albanians forgot over time?

-
From the second page in this topic, i transmit you houndreds of BOOKS! ... which came from american, german, french, english, italian even from slavic and greek scientist, who write against your way of thinking here, but you pass them silently to say something in your own, just because you wanna transmit hate here and nothing else !It will make you happy that I read everything you posted, but the thing that struck me most was the date these books were published, some over 100 years ago, the most recent in 1941...

I don't want to transmit hate anywhere, but I see alot of overstreched, outdated reasoning by you to try and justify your grounds. I'm sure people in the 19th century knew of everythign that was discover after, the 1800's was a very romantic time in portraying european history to any greatness.


Me:
I will comment... Fustanella is greek ?! when all the world knows that is an albanian traditional costume of the all Albanians, latter was in use only by Tosk Albanians(until today).
Search about Fustanella - http://www.google.com/#q=the%20Alban...6d7fcb6d497136 (http://www.google.com/#q=the%20Albanian%20fustanella%2C%20which%20was%20 adopted%20by%20the%20Greeks&hl=en&source=lnms&tbs=bks:1&psj=1&ei=n8ZUTeeoKY7CswaO593cBg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=6&ved=0CAsQ_AUoBQ&prmdo=1&fp=d46d7fcb6d497136) ...{"fustan"-dress in albanian (and in no other language); "funt/d"-the lower part of the dress; "an"-side (or the lower side of the dress - Fustanella), also fút (whith accent at "u"), is the name of that type of clothing, which we put forward at the bottom of the body, when we have to work something.... like freemasons today:)}... Maybe you should think about who exactly are Tosk albanians are who lived in Northern Epirus before the albanians miragted south, then maybe its not to crazy that the dress is greek.



Me:
Info + In this evidence, turks are that part of illyrian or pelasgian dna, what were assimilated in new comers ethnicity, so is not talking about mongols :)Oh now you are trying to use DNA to prove your point when before you just brushed it off as "assimulation" because if you are really trying to use DNA to prove your point its counter-intuitive, albanians are related much more closley to greeks than bosnians, for obvious reasons.







But you don't know why albanians call themself shqiptar (sons of the eagle). That's because albani tribe, was one tribe of illyrians... and albanians today are a result of albanians, macedonians and epirotes tribes (pelasgians)... and the name albani is not properly presented them. I guess you think macedons were albanian now, when we have a clear record on their development, you sound like a skopian.




P.S.:
I'll tell you something: Albanians have a surviving history and they don't care about history, or to tell you who were, or to know more about these things... Albanian nationalism is 0... that's why these people who survived still remained around separated borders from the year 1913 (for the last time that we were divided), still can't make their natural state. The institutions don't care about these things too... the primary tast about us was to survive... and now is to make money, because because the poverty has been a permanent problem about us. I'm interesting about history, only because I am angry whith the poor anti-albanian propaganda which circulates from the southern Slavs and Greeks, only because they still want to tear apart the territory of the Albanians wich is left and the right of autochthony make nervous the predatory neighbors.


...but these studies about the language, culture, symbolism, antropology, history of the albanians... are done from foreign scientists (Germans, French, British, Americans, Italians, and even some truth seekers Slavic and Greek scientists). They have observed a very old language, very ancient symbolism, old race and very old model of culture at all, of these survival people that are trying to Self-isolate themself in mountains, from permanent invasions. But if for the scientists albanians are treasure, guarded from the modern deformation, the dark side of this fact is the ignorance of the survivors and cultural inclination/trend/propensity what is recorded in DNA and have to pass more than 6,000 years to alter fundamentallyI hate to break it to you, but in modern day albania and kosovo there were mines and roads the romans used extensively, this whole nationalism the albanians go by "surviving invansion in mountains", is utter rubbish, no one in europe survived influence from another group. Southern Vhlacs are even hypothesised about being the romanised citizens during the classical times, and even these poeple lived in mountains. If albaians lived there and kept out of sight they would still be pagan in religion. The most obvious answer is that the albanian language came from a different place. I repeat, language, not necceraly the albanian people.

Albanian history starts in the middle ages because that's the first record we have of albanians. I'm sorry to bore you but 100 year old books and a none-existant illyrian written laguage to compare to the albanian written langiage which is only 100 years old is rubbish. Glyphs and cultural traits that the entire region shares is not much either.

I'll tell you why albanian DNA is closer to greeks, because Tosk albanians are albanised greeks. Similar to southern italiants are romanized and western anatolian are turkified Greeks.

You claim entire peoples, not just Illyrians but epirots, macedons, pelasgians, based off what? geography? Please show me somethign recent and not 100 year old book pasages, and if you are going to use DNA as evidence use it objectively, because you ignore bosnian DNA all the time. If you are going to use written documents, again, you can't just ignore medival written facts. But I think you will have a hard time because albanian historical evidence is so rare because of the lack of information. This lack of information does not in fact give you the right to use other non-related pieces and just declare it albanian like history is some sort of commodity.

I guess I just bored you again though. When human beings don't understand something or lack in knowlege about a subject matter, we usually invent reasonings to explain it, so keep on dreaming my albanian friend, but the correct answer is usually the most obvious my brother. :heart:

Besir Bajrami
15-09-11, 08:17
Ok :) ... I think you make a progress, only because the heart is in the end of your post... step by step... come on... it's not so hard...
Now just as you quote these seperated words, try to quote the parts of books and evidences that I bring to you (and you will find all the answers what you seek) and give me contra arguments, or contra books... new books if you have haha ;)
Don't forget, I'm talking about these pages, dont make me to repeat myself... read:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page5)
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page2 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page2)
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page4 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page4)
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page6
... about every my sentence (for the sake of the rules of communication), if not, than you'll proceed to be a spamer :S

Elias2
15-09-11, 15:31
Ok :) ... I think you make a progress, only because the heart is in the end of your post... step by step... come on... it's not so hard...
Now just as you quote these seperated words, try to quote the parts of books and evidences that I bring to you (and you will find all the answers what you seek) and give me contra arguments, or contra books... new books if you have haha ;)
Don't forget, I'm talking about these pages, dont make me to repeat myself... read:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page5)
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page2 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page2)
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page4 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page4)
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page6
... about every my sentence (for the sake of the rules of communication), if not, than you'll proceed to be a spamer :S

I read it all and I'm still not conviced the albanian language is domestic to albania. Iepotec did a good job refuting you on alot of things, and I see a pattern that you ignore his statements as well as mine in most cases. I'll give you one more peice of evidence that the albanian language is foriegn, then I'm not posting in this thread anymore.

Despotate of Epirus;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despot_of_Epirus

1204-1337

No mention of any peoples called albanians or shiptars, in the traditional albanian lands;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Epiro1230-1251.png

I guess at this point shiptars are hiding in the mountains? or they havn't migrated there yet, I think the latter.

It seems that the albanian culture came in to albania proper after the serbian conquest by dusan. But again you seem to want to nitpick midieval evidence for your liking, but I look at the whole picutre.

So I apologise that I'm just a spammer to you, but I havn't seen anything to believe that the albanian ethos is native to albania. If it was there since Illyria would be alot more greek influence but there isn't.

Good luck though my albanian-greek brother! :heart:

Besir Bajrami
15-09-11, 18:43
Again, the only thing that has availed in you post, is the heart :)

I knew it that you don't have guts to quote every my sentence to reply, including here and the part of studies that I transmit to you, just like your friend Iapetos... it will be a miracle to do that... because your machine of propaganda can not cover every ray of sun (the true)
...and I have more than 600 other books, that are waiting for you (:S), started from ancient writers, like Herodotus, Strabo, Homer, Pliny, Thucydides, Ptolemy.. to the year 2011... and we have thousends of claims like these:
...if there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians...
... Albanians are the only original inhabits in Balkan, the others are invaders...
...the three Shkypetar States, Illyria, Epirus and Macedonia ...
... thus pressed back, The Illyrian, Epirot and Macedonians clans consolidated themself in what geography knows as Albania...
... the albanians are the most ancient race in southeastern Europe. History and legend affort no record of their arrival in Balkan peninsula...
... from the Illyria to Albania...

... all these parts from books, you can find above posted as it should, and you pass them silently like nothing was said (epic fail)

And how can you do such a crime in the scientific level, to offend all these what i sent to you... you had the ansewer from best scientists in the world, not by me:) ...why you pass them and post here a map about Epirotes (with the poor propagand tendency that even and the cradle of Albanians to call it Greek), that all in the scientist world are knowing as albanians. Here you have many of them:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.139407142773730.23767.100001133356751&l=5e6b160e5a&type=1
Even Castrioti is greek :D
Search about Castrioti (Kastrioti):http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&prmdo=1&tbs=bks:1&q=Castrioti&a q=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&psj=1&prmdo=1&fp=82a567adc72d26 3b (http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&prmdo=1&tbs=bks:1&q=Castrioti&aq=f&aqi=&aql=f&oq=&psj=1&prmdo=1&fp=82a567adc72d263b)
{You have to make him greek or slav, whatever, because you know that he was King od Epirus and Macedonia, like albanian (Illyro-Thracian) states, and disorientate your propaganda about Epir and Macedonia

Or Fustanella :D
... when all the world knows that is an albanian traditional costume of the all Albanians, latter was in use only by Tosk Albanians(until today).
Search about Fustanella - http://www.google.com/#q=the%20Alban...6d7fcb6d497136 (http://www.google.com/#q=the%20Albanian%20fustanella%2C%20which%20was%20 adopted%20by%20the%20Greeks&hl=en&source=lnms&tbs=bks:1&psj=1&ei=n8ZUTeeoKY7CswaO593cBg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=6&ved=0CAsQ_AUoBQ&prmdo=1&fp=d46d7fcb6d497136) ...{"fustan"-dress in albanian (and in no other language); "funt/d"-the lower part of the dress; "an"-side (or the lower side of the dress - Fustanella), also fút (whith accent at "u"), is the name of that type of clothing, which we put forward at the bottom of the body, when we have to work something.... like freemasons today:)}...

Or... what else is left from you to make it slavic or greek ?

And ah yes, I see that you are trapped with Bosnia... even that I'll try to answer you for the fourth time about the same question, in the same way. You said that bosnians and albanians have much differences in DNA:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165765_152259364821841_100001133356751_247832_9668 27_n.jpg
I said that it must be, because slavs and illyrians have much differences in DNA
... and these haplotypes that they have in common, are because south slavic, didn't replace all the illyrians at once... illyrians were pushed back slowly (where we find being wasted in the small Albania today), but some of them become slavic (illyrians did not speak slavic, right? like bosnians speak - that's why there we face the term assimilation)... that's why some bosnian haplotypes are in common whith albanians(illyrians) and the other part what is different from albanians is slavic...
It's so easy to understand whith simple historical fact, why you have to be confused even here... do you want to draw to you in paint haha or you a have a short video about little kids to learn history: See it from the the sec. 35 to the end (1.17) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0tGOdHl7_0

+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260375_195124033868707_100001133356751_474291_2594 974_n.jpg

... and of course, read more in this issue: Here you have many of them:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.139407142773730.23767.100001133356751&l=5e6b160e5a&type=1
... I send you whith link, in order to not upset other members here, who know what they seek, and for what they opened this topic (and are not trapped in slavic or greek propaganda like you, only because you are a slav, or the other one was greek)...

Even that in these kind of maps that you where posted, are evident the invasions of others, like slavs in this case, from Bullgaria. I saw you tendences only in geography and I write you in this way above (even that you didnt understand as always):
"Also, about maps, you have to understand that they don't describe the autochthony always, but they are the result of expensions (invasions). We have survival history and as you go deeper in time, will see that our territory is larger. Restriction (contraction) of our territory is continuous occurrence since prehistory, we can't boast with any map, except the oldest ones that comfort us a little bit (because contraction is lower).
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3356751&type=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152261951488249&set=a.110082529039525.4389.100001133356751&type=1)
We have also occupations maps that there is no Albania, but this does not mean that there was no Albanian ...
In fact these are maps that invasions are documented. Even just on the basis of maps of this kind, neighbors claim territories. And not whith autochthony."

- It would be better to continue talking with you. I gave you materials from linguistical, we don't have to search the old albanian language, because albanian today is old like it was... it was preserved from these self-issolated albanians, even that there were influences from invaders - atrocities, the language didnt were romanizated or hellenizated at all... these albanian words and these small semantic units in them, are a real treasure about the scientists, and with the method of comparison and etymology, they have concluded that this language is the oldest in Europe... Here you have also the answer about your only justification, why albanian language wasen't wrote before (although many have already deciphered ancient pelasgian inscriptions whith the Albanian language), they just survive in their mountains whith their own laws coming from the antiquity and they were not free to create science. But before greek and roman era, yes, this language was written, that's why today many pelasgian inscriptions are deciphered whith this language) - Elizabeth Pyatt, from Pennsylvania State University: Albanian might be considered very "old" and Greek pretty "new"- http://linguistlist.org/ask-ling/oldest.cfm
... in the same way, these conclusions came and for historical, symbolic, anthropological, cultural, geographic... components (you have example of all these components from the page 2,4,5 and 6 in this topic), that's proving once again the autochtony of albanians and the original link between them and ancient cultures around the Mediterranean... It will be nice to proceed talking whith you, to enable the posting of over 600 books from me, but here you like a deserter, leave your pseudo-nationalistic propaganda away, because it doesnt help anymore (especially when you have to argue something in multi components, then you are trapped)

___________________________
* Now, let's focus in the topic...

Besir Bajrami
15-09-11, 20:00
This is interesting also...
Albanians have a dance with two swords (snake) who fight and in the same time they dance with arms open as eagle flying (unity of male-female of snakes-'kundalini'= Cadmus & Harmonia myth)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/224487_214341258613651_100001133356751_528420_3168 611_n.jpg

Pyrrhic Dance = ALBANITIKO (ALBANIAN DANCE)
http://www.albpelasgian.com/dance/pyrrhic-dance.html

Pyrrhic Dance
http://www.arberiaonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=78

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/198736_214341528613624_100001133356751_528428_6400 524_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262938_214341558613621_100001133356751_528429_1329 340_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185416_214341401946970_100001133356751_528426_3793 604_n.jpg

Albanians in Egypt- La Danse Pyrrhique- jean-leon gerome
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285491_214341278613649_100001133356751_528421_6701 997_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/283131_214341358613641_100001133356751_528424_7921 511_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/215135_214341291946981_100001133356751_528422_7037 623_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/205908_214341505280293_100001133356751_528427_4041 662_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/216702_214341335280310_100001133356751_528423_6775 48_n.jpg

London News: Albanian War Dance in the camp Near Dulcigno During the Feast of the Ramazan - 1880
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/282133_214341581946952_100001133356751_528430_2226 169_n.jpg

Elias2
15-09-11, 20:41
... Albanians are the only original inhabits in Balkan, the others are invaders...
...the three Shkypetar States, Illyria, Epirus and Macedonia[/B] ...
... thus pressed back, The Illyrian, Epirot and Macedonians clans consolidated themself in what geography knows as Albania...
... the albanians are the most ancient race in southeastern Europe. History and legend affort no record of their arrival in Balkan peninsula...
... from the Illyria to Albania...

.

Sounds like 19th century romantic history in the modern era! dream on dreamer, you're insane.

Antigone
16-09-11, 06:01
Trouble is, that not one thing posted here is from a primary nor a contemporary source. Anyone can write or copy and paste whatever they wish but without primary sources it will ever remain mere conjecture.

Besir Bajrami
17-09-11, 23:59
@ Antigone
If the ancient writers, like Herodotus, Strabo, Homer, Pliny, Thucydides, Ptolemy... are not primary sources... if historical traditions of the Greeks, Egyptians, Phoenicians, Assyrians... are not primay primary sources... if German, English, French, American, Italian... institutes of linguistics and Albanology in particular, history, and culture at all are not primary sources... if evidences in genetic and physic antropology, symbolism, national costumes, national dances, music, mythology or the culture at all... are not primary sources, if Encyclopaedia Britannica (west) or Muslim Encyclopaedia (east) - {East and west are united in this subject}... are not primary sources... if these studies (again, mostly by foreign researchers, because albanians are not interested about ancient history, and national institutions are very weak in this direction... primary task for albanians was to survive, and now is to to alleviate the permant extreme poverty):
Cent. XVI; XVII; XVIII
1509 Eneo Silvio Piccolomini - 'Cosmograhia Pii Papae in Asiase & Europe [...]'
1555 Konrad Gesner Schweizer - “Mithridas sive de differentiis linguarum”
1587 Andrea de Poza Spanierin - “Albaner nannte man früher Epiroten”
1599 G. Skaliger Franzose - 'Langues europeennes, “die epirotische Sprache von früher ist die albanische Sprache von heute'
1695 Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - 'Correspondence on the Albanian Language';
1646-1716 Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - “Albanische Sprache ist die alte illyrische
1769 Johan Ihre - 'Glossarium Suiogothicum'
1774 Johann Thunman - 'Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europaeischen Völker'
1777 Niccolò Chetta - 'Tesoro di notizie su de’ Macedoni'
1746 - 1770 Hans Tunman - 'Untersuchungen über die Geschichte der östlichen europäischen Völker “Albaner sind die direkten Nachfolger der Illyrer und wurden nicht romanisiert ”
1744 - 1803 Johann G.Herde Deutscher - 'Ideen zur Philosophie der Geschichte der Menschheit'
1784 Johann G.Herde Deutsche - “Albaner Nachfolger der Illyrer”
1751-1819 Daniel Farlati dhe Jakob Koleti - Enciklopedia "Illyricum Sacrum";
1755-1826 Conrad Malte-Bruun Däne - ' Annales des Voyages de la Geographie et de l`Historie' / Paris 1809 - “Albaner Nachfolger der Illyrer”
1790-1866 Jakob Falmerajer - “Das albanische Element in Griechenland”; “Besteht eine Verbindung der Albaner und Illyrern"
1794-1881 Ami Bue - “Verbindung der Illyrer mit Albanern”




Cent. XIX
1806 Johann Christoph Adelung - 'Mithridates oder allgemeine Sprachenkunde [...]'
1807 Angelo Masci - 'Discorso sull’ origine, costume e stato attuale della nazione Albanese'
1811-1869 Johann Georg von Hahn - “Die vorfahren der Albaner sind eindeutig die Illyrer”
1812 Conrad Malte-Brun - 'Precis de la geographie universelle, [...]'
1814-1866 H.Hekard - 'Historia et Description de la Haute' - Albanie ou Guegarie “Illyrer Vorfahren der heutigen Albaner”
1816 Franz Bopp - 'Über das Conjugationsystem der Sanskritsprache [...]'
{1854 Franz Bopp - 'Ueber das Albanesische [...]'}
1817-1903 Teodor Mommsen - “Römische Geschichte”; “Die überlebenden der Illyrer sind die Albaner”
1820 François Pouquevile - 'Voyage dans le Grece'
1821-1882 D. Camarda - “Albanisch die älteste Sprache der welt”
1826 Christian Gottlob Gisner - Die alten Pelasger
1831 Giuseppe Crispi – 'Memoria sulla lingua albanese'
1835 Josef Xylander - 'Die Sprache der Albenesen oder Skipetaren'
1835 Ph. Fallmerayer - 'Welchen Einfluß hatte die Besetzung Griechenlands durch die Slawen auf das Schicksal der Stadt Athen und der Landschaft Attika? '
1847 Vincenzo Dorsa - 'Sugli albanesi, Ricerche e pensieri'
{1862 Vincenzo Dorsa - Studi etimologici della lingua albanese}
1854 Johann Georg von Hahn - 'Albanesiche Studien'
1855 Karl Reinhold - 'Noctes Pelasgicae vel symbolae ad cognoscendas dialectos Graeciae Pelasgicas'
1855 Nikolaos Nikokles - 'De albnensium sive Shkiptar origine et prosapia'
1860 Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer - 'Das albanesische Element in Griechenland'
1864 Demetrio Camarda - 'Saggio di grammatologia comparata sulla lingua albanese'
1860 Frank Miklosici - “Albanische Forschung”
1866 L.Iasmouche - 'La Peninsule Balkanique”; “Die Albaner sind die einzigen repräsentierte Nation die von den Illyrern überlebt hat”
1877 Louis Benloew- 'Grèce avant les grecs: étude linguistique e ethnographique : pélasges, léléges, sémites e ioniens'
1878 Panajoti Kupitori - 'Studime shqiptare'
1879 Pashko Vasa - 'The Truth on Albania and the Albanians, Historical and Critical Issues'
1881 Arbereshi de Martino - 'L'arpa d'un Italo-Albanese: poesie varie
1886 Francesco Tajani - 'Le istorie albenesi'
1888 Marchiano Stanislao - 'I Pelasgi e la loro lingua'
1890 Ellis Hesselmeyer - 'Die Pelasgerfrage und Ihre Losbarkeit'
1850-1900 Gustav Meyer - “Albanische Studien”
1891 Gustav Meyer - 'Etymologisches Wörterbuch der Albanesischen Sprache'
1894 Girolamo de Rada - 'Appendice alla grammatica: Antologia albanese'
1894 Eduard Schneider - 'Une race oublièe, Les Pelasges et leurs descendantes'
1896 Eduard Schneider “Albanisch ist der reinste Beweis das sie die nachkommen der Illyrer Pelasger sind”
1896 Kretchmer Paul - 'Hyrje në historinë e gjuhës Greke'
1896 Spiro Lambro - 'Emërtimet e Atikës ( athinës) dhe vënd vendosjet e Shqiptarëve'
1899 Sami Frasheri - 'Shqipëria ç'ka qënë, ç'është e ç'do të bëhet'


Cent. XX
1901 Arturo Galanti - 'L'Albania'
1904 1906 Peck Vilmos – 'Okori Lexicon'
Gregorovius Ferdinand; 'Historia e qyteteve të Athinës në mesjetë'
1906 G. Hertzberg - 'Historia e greqisë nga mbarimi lashtësisë deri në ditët e sotme'
1907 John Linton Myres - 'A History of the Pelasgian Theory'
1907 Mihal Lambrinidhu - 'Shqiptarët në greqi dhe në poloponez'
1911 Norbert Jokl - "Studien zur albanesischen Etymologie und Wortbildung"
1912 - 1918 Milan von Šufflay-“Mediaeval Albania”; “Srbi i Albanci”; Dr. Milan von Šufflay, Dr.Ludovicus de Thallóczy, Dr.Constantinus Jireček - “Acta et diplomata res Albaniae mediae aetatis illustrantia”;
1912 Iakovo Thomopoulos "Pelasgika"
1913 Nicolae Densusianu - 'Dacia Preistorica'
1914 George Fred Williams - 'Shqiptaret'
1917 Donald MacKenzie - 'Myths of Crete and Pre-Hellenic Europe'
1922 Agostino Ribecco - 'Vetustà della lingua albanese e sua importanza nella spiegazione del mondo antico'
1923 Norbert Jokl - "Linguistisch-kulturhistorische Untersuchungen aus dem Bereiche des Albanischen"
1924 Norbert Jokl - "Ilirët, shqiptarët, frigiatët" dhe "Trakët dhe Shqiptarët"
1924 Luigi Ugolini - 'L’antica Albania nelle ricerche archeologiche'
1934 John Arthur Munro - 'Pelasgians and Ionians'
1936 Leonid Ndrenika - 'Pelasgi e la loro lingua: cenni storici e filologici'
1940 Michele Gervasio - 'Albania Antica'
1944 Jakov Milaj - 'Raca Shqiptare'
1947 Valentin Ditjakin - 'Soviet science of the origin of the Slavs'
1950 Milan Budimir - 'The Greeks and Pelasti';
{1956 Milan Budimir - 'Pelasto – Slavica'}
1952 Albert van Windekens - 'Le Pelasgique Essaisur une langue indo-europenne prehellenique'
{1960 Albert van Windekens - 'Etudes Pelasgiques'}
1959 Julius Pokorny - 'Indogermanisches Etimologisches Worterbuch'
1960 Fritz Lochner-Hüttenbach - 'Die Pelasger'
{1960 Giuseppe Catapano - "Puthia (Il Bacio) e Rina (Irene)"
1943 Giuseppe Catapano - "L'esaltazione della Besa Albanese nell'antica rapsodia Costantino e Garentina"
1966 Giuseppe Catapano - "Lucera nei secoli"
1971 Giuseppe Catapano - "Contestazione contestata: parole di un credente"
1982 Giuseppe Catapano - Elena (Gesù; Menelao Abbandonato, Etj.)
1983 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Thot Parlava Albanese'
1984 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Faraon, la nostra stirpe' (Antichità della lingua albanese)'
1995 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Ramseti i madh ishte i gjakut tonë'
1996 Giuseppe Catapano - 'Shqiptarët, Popull i ndarë'
1989 Giuseppe Catapano - "Derisa të vihet drejtësia në Kosovën shqiptare të persekutuar nga Serbet"
1990 Giuseppe Catapano - La Venuta degli Albanesi in Italia (art. Il Corriere di Roma)
1991 Giuseppe Catapano - "L'ombra di Hamza sull'Albania"}
1961 Zacharie Mayani - 'The Etruscans Begin to Speak'
1961 Peter Robert Frank - 'Die Antiken Münzen Von Epirus'
{1973 Zacharie Mayani - 'Fundi i misterit Etrusk'}
1964 Konda Spiro - 'Shqiptarët dhe problemi Pellazgjik'
1965 D.A.Hester - 'Pelasgian a new Indo-European language?'
1966 Tajar Zavalani - 'Histori e Shqipnis'
1966 L.S.Abel - 'Fifth Century B.C., Concepts of the Pelasgians'
1965 S.Anamali, F.Prendi, S.Islami, H.Ceka – 'Iliria te autorët antikë'
1971 Skender Anamali - 'Përmbledhje artikujsh arkeologjike për historinë e lashtë të Shqipërisë'
{2009 Skender Anamali - 'Amantia, qytet i Ilirisë Jugore'}
1975 James Mellaart - 'The Neolithic of the Near East'
1977 Vladimir Ivanov Georgiev - 'Trakite i tehnijat ezik'
1977 Michael Sakellariou - 'Peuple préhelléniques d'origine indo-européennee'
1978 Arshi Pipa-“Folklori shqiptar:Struktura dhe gjinia”
1979 Fritz Schachermeyr - 'Die Ägäische Frühzeit [...]'
1979 Robert Buck - 'A History of Boeotia'
1979 Edgar Furnee - 'Study to the East Mediterranean Subtrat in Addition to an Attempt to a New Pelasgian Theory'
1980 James Pandeli - 'Oh Albania, My Poor Albania'
{2003.James Pandeli - 'The Language Of God'}
1981 Irnerio Gnudi - 'Pelasgi, Fenici, Etruschi, [...]'
1983 Aleksandr Iosifovič Nemirovskij - 'Etruski: ot mira k istorii'
1984 Akaki Urushadze - 'The Country of the Enchantress Media'
1984 Nermin Vlora Falaschi - 'Pelasgi, iliri, etruschi, albanesi'
{1989 Nermin Vlora Falaschi - Etrusco lingua viva}
{1997 Nemrin Vlora Falaschi - 'Prona gjuhësore dhe gjentike: Probabilitet e monogjenezës embrionale të fjalëve'}
{1998 Nermin Vlora Falaschi - 'Pellazget-iliret-etrusket-shqiptaret: Qyteterime me te lashta mesdhetare'}
1985 Rismag Gordeziani - 'Pre-Grecian and Georgian'
1986 Alexander Fol - 'Trakijskijat orfizam'
2008 Hansjörg Frommer - "Die Illyrer 4000 Jahre europäische Geschichte"
1988 Pierre Cabanes - “Les Illyriens de Bardylis a Genthios”
1989 E. B. French. - 'Archaeology in Greece (Archaeological Reports, No. 36.)'
1990 Dhimiter Pilika - 'Pellazgët, origjina jonë e mohuar'
1990 Robert D'Angely - 'Enigma'
{1990 Robert D'Angely - 'The Illyrians Thracians & Homer'}
{1998 Robert D'Angely - 'Comparative Albanian Grammar'}
1990 Ludwig Klages - 'I Pelasgi'
1994 Eqrem Çabej - Shqiptaret midis Perendmit dhe Lindjes
1994 Pierre Cabanes - 'Albanie, le pays des aigles'
1995 Edwin Jacques - Shqiptaret
1996 Vladimir Xhelaj - Zgjidhja e enigmës së misterit etrusk
{2009 Vladimir Xhelaj - 'Në origjinë të kombit shqiptar dhe të gjuhës së tij: Arbëria dhe arbërit; ilirët dhe gjuha e tyre; etj.'}
1997 Nezir Myrta - 'Iliristika'
1998 John Wilkes - 'Iliret'
1999 Shaban Demiraj - 'Prejardhja e shqiptarëve në dritën e dëshmive të gjuhës shqipe'
1983 Aristidh Kola – 'Arvanitasit dhe prejardhja e grekeve'
{1989 Aristidh Kola - 'Gjuha e Perendive'}
{2000 Aristidh Kola - 'Zeusi pellazgjik dhe mashtrimi indoeuropian'}


Cent. XXI
2000 Preloc Margilaj - 'Ilirët flasin shqip, Shqiptarët flasin ilirisht'
2000 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Bijtë e shpatës shqiptare'
{2001 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Epiri, kryeqëndra e qytetërimit antik në Evropë'}
{2001 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Gjëmon historia e shqiptarëve'}
{2005 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Teuta, Mbretëresha e Ilirisë'}
{2005 Mexhit Kokalari - 'Aleksandri i Madh'}
2001 Georges Castellan - 'Histoire de l'Albanie et des Albanais'
2001 Jean Faucounau - 'The Proto-Ionians: Story of a Forgotten People'
{2002 Shaban Demiraj - 'Gramatikë historike e gjuhës shqipe'}
{2004 Shaban Demiraj - 'Gjuhësi ballkanike'}
{2006 Shaban Demiraj - 'Origin of the Albanians: linguistically investigated'}
{2008 Shaban Demiraj - 'Epiri, pellazgët, etruskët dhe shqiptarët'}
2004 Andreas Lippert -" Die Illyrer. Katalog zu einer Ausstellung von archäologischen Funden der albanischen Eisenzeit (12. - 4. Jh. v. Chr.)"
2005 Rrok Zojzi - “Gjurmët e një kalendari primitiv në popullin tonë”; “Studime mbi veshjet kombëtare”; “Traditat e lundrimit në Shqipëri”; “Mbi të drejtën kanunore të popullit shqiptar”; “Gjurmë arkaike në veshjet tradicionale të popullit shqiptar”; “Arti popullor në Shqipëri”; “Studime për Çamërinë”; “Studime mbi luginën e Shkumbinit”; “Përmbledhje për Labërinë”;
2005 Jean Faucounau - 'The Greek origins to the Bronze Age'}
2002 Stephanie Schwandner-Sievers & Bernd J. Fischer, Eds. - 'Albanian Identities, Myth and History'
2002 Aleksander Stipçeviq - 'Iliret'
2002 Jaho Brahaj - 'Flamuri i kombit Shqiptar'
2003 Muzafer Korkuti - 'Parailiret, Iliret, Arberit'
2003 Mathieu Aref - 'Albania or the incredible odyssey of preHellenic people'
{2004 Mathieu Aref - 'Greece: (Mycéniens = Pélasges) or the solution of an enigma'}
2004 Edward Bulwer Lytton – 'Athens, Its Rise and Fall, [...]'
2004 Niko Stylos - "Historia e shenjtë e Arvanitëve";
2004 Niko Stylos - "MARKO BOÇARI"
2005 Petro Zheji - 'Shqipja dhe Sankritishtja'
2005 Enzo Gatti – Iliret
2006 Elena Kocaqi – 'Albanet me fame mijevjeçare'
{2007 Elena Kocaqi - 'Roli pellazgo-ilir në krijimin e kombeve dhe gjuhëve evropiane'}
{2008 Elena Kocaqi - 'Shqipja çelësi i gjuhëve indoevropiane'}
{2009 Elena Kocaqi - 'Planet për zhdukjen e shqiptarëve: si u krijua Greqia dhe Serbia në trojet shqiptare'}
2006 Arsim Spahiu - 'Pellazgët dhe ilirët në Greqinë e vjetër'
2006 Arthur Evans - 'Ancient Illyria: An Archaeological Exploration'
2007 Ignacy Ryszard Danka - 'Pelazgowie, autochtoni Hellady, [...]'
2007 Fiqiret Barbullushi - 'Akili, Odiseja... nuk ishin helenë [...]'
{2009 Fiqiret Barbullushi - 'Akili dhe Agamemnoni'}
2007 Alberto Areddu – 'Le origini albanesi della civiltà in Sardegna'
2008 Ali Eltari - 'Pellazgët, krijuesit e qytetërimit botëror'
2008 Pjeter Nikolla - 'E vërteta e mitologjisë iliro-pellazge'
2008 Ibrahim Kelmendi - 'Ilirët në protohistori : origjina, kultura dhe përhapja e tyre'
2008 Selim Islami - 'Historia e ilirëve: përmbledhje punimesh'
2008 Shpresa Omer - 'Në gjurmët e pellazgjishtes: një krahasim etimologjik i fjalëve të gjermanishtes me ato të shqipes'
2008 Artan Haxhi - 'Etnogjeneza e gjuhës shqipe: përsiatje'
2008 Kapllan Burovic - 'Who are Albanians?: studies into the origin of Albanians'
2009 Nijazi Muhamedi-“Maqedonia shqiptare”;
2009 Luftulla & Liliana Peza - 'Dritë e re mbi pellazgët dhe gjuhën e tyre'
2009 A F Kocaqi - 'Shqipja Pellazge'
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other online books:
http://www.scribd.com/document_collections/2646357

... are not primary sources... and if a living evidence like humans, are not primary or contemporary sources... than what is ?!
Propaganda ?! ... or what YOU think... can be primary source ?!
__________________________________________________ ___

@ Elias2
Haha... you are such a manipulator ;) When these the same words were in quotes from the books and institutions like Encyclopaedia Britannica and other eminent scientist, you didn't have guts to reply from their, and now when I write them in these format, you reply only that piece, pretending that these are my words... in the other post you will copy only one letter from my posts, to get out of situations with words acrobatic.
P.S: I thought you deserted your propaganda, why you post again :P (By the way, there are waiting too many evidences if you want to give any contra argument, from books (studies), not just dry words.

Let's proceed...

Dardanian women:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=218232648224512&set=a.214339561947154.48697.100001133356751&type=1https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/296137_218232648224512_100001133356751_539554_5475 629_n.jpg

+ ancient artifact from Vinca culture (or Goddess on the throne) and modern (still ancient:) albanian dress from Kosovo (part of ancient Dardania)


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284282_214344465279997_100001133356751_528526_3148 77_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185215_214344501946660_100001133356751_528527_4863 46_n.jpg


If we pay attention to the tradition, even today in albanian culture, when the girl become e women, when she get married (albanians get married only in Thursday and Sunday), she have to stay just like this, in that position (folded), like the mysterious artifact there.
Thursday is womens day. For the bride they say: "U bë Nuse Venuse" - "You become e Bride a Venus"... alb.:"Ve"- eng.:"Egg" - alb.:"Nuse" - eng.:"bride"... Venus)
Also, when in "the first night" she have to stay whith her man, tradition requires that she have to sit in the symbol of the half of Cosmic Egg (albanian white hood - "Plis" or "Qeleshe", is only a man cap), turned back, and to put in the head the another half, just like the symbol of Zeus here:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084585705986_100001133356751_66198_764216 9_n.jpg


So, like the seed that came from the Cosmic Egg or the Egg of the Worlds and brought the life, and the Bride "emerges" from the Egg and bring life in that house.

In fact the entire albanian national dress represents that pelasgic religion, or symbolizes God/Almighty Creator.
Even the sleeves of the dress (Guna) that don't have to be wear but to connect behind, symbolizing comb / wings of divinity. For old religion (or better to say, from that original religion, what was copied latter from other cultures, especially from the Semitic peoples) says that when the Creator created life from the cosmic egg/egg of worlds, he was presented with comb/wings ...
This kind of theory of creation is writen somehow and in the Bible indireclty in Genesis.
Here you can see the symbolism of Comb/divine wings in albanian dress:
http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137352&stc=1&d=1284081980

See more in page 5 in this topic about some other albanian national costumes and their symbolism:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page5
__________________________________________________ _____________________




+
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281900_214423978605379_100001133356751_528689_6964 4_n.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/24evo11.png

Info +
Eleusina (Greek: Ελευσίνα, Ancient/Katharevousa: Ἐλευσίς Eleusis) is a town and municipality about 20 km NW of Athens. It is located near the northernmost end of the Saronic Gulf and is the seat of administration of West Attica Prefecture. It is best known for having been the site of the Eleusinian Mysteries, the most famous religious center of ancient Greece.[2] It was also the birth place of Aeschylus, one of the three great tragedians of antiquity. See also Metanira
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ym62q1.png
Or: Greece -- Description and travel; Greece -- History - M'Clymont, James Alexander, 1848-; Fulleylove, John, 1847-1908
http://i43.tinypic.com/20gzlmo.png

.. we continue with the remains of the Minoan culture Minoane: Its the same dress in use only by albanians, named: Xhumbleta (nearly 4000 years old)... see more in page 5 in this topic about that dress and symbolism what is in use in them:
http://www.uark.edu/campus-resources/achilles/graphics/bronze%20myc%20girls.gif

http://www.untaintedbytheworld.com/wardrobe/image/MinoanWomen.jpg

+
http://i48.tinypic.com/eg72v9.jpg

Women Dressed in Albanian Style Perform Megara's Easter Dance Photographic Print by Maynard Owen Wil (http://www.allposters.co.uk/gallery.asp?startat=%2Fgetposter.asp&APNum=6102446&CID=ED08C621):
http://www.allposters.co.uk/gallery.asp?startat=%2Fgetposter.asp&APNum=6102446&CID=ED08C621 http://www.allposters.co.uk/gallery.asp?startat=%2Fgetposter.asp&APNum=6102446&CID=ED08C621
http://oi51.tinypic.com/2ceno4.jpg

http://oi51.tinypic.com/fvwv1f.jpg

http://oi51.tinypic.com/35bate9.jpg

http://oi53.tinypic.com/2dlni2u.jpg

Aegean island dance
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/285437_214341191946991_100001133356751_528417_1219 026_n.jpg

And: Albanian dancers in the courtyard of the Monastery in Dardania or today Kosovo
Info + Orthodox monasteries in Kosova: http://www.albpelasgian.com/430.html
http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129230&stc=1&d=1269003231

Besir Bajrami
18-09-11, 00:31
@ Elias2
Haha... you are such a manipulator ;) When these the same words were in quotes from the books and institutions like Encyclopaedia Britannica and other eminent scientist, you didn't have guts to reply from their, and now when I write them in these format, you reply only that piece, pretending that these are my words... in the other post you will copy only one letter from my posts, to get out of situations with words acrobatic.
P.S: I thought you deserted your propaganda, why you post again :P (By the way, there are waiting too many evidences if you want to give any contra argument, from books (studies), not just dry words.

Let's proceed:
Ancient artifact from Vinca culture (or Goddess on the throne) and modern (still ancient:) albanian dress from Kosovo (part of ancient Dardania)


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284282_214344465279997_100001133356751_528526_3148 77_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185215_214344501946660_100001133356751_528527_4863 46_n.jpg


If we pay attention to the tradition, even today in albanian culture, when the girl become e women, when she get married (albanians get married only in Thursday and Sunday), she have to stay just like this, in that position (folded), like the mysterious artifact there.
Thursday is womens day. For the bride they say: "U bë Nuse Venuse" - "You become e Bride a Venus"... alb.:"Ve"- eng.:"Egg" - alb.:"Nuse" - eng.:"bride"... Venus)
Also, when in "the first night" she have to stay whith her man, tradition requires that she have to sit in the symbol of the half of Cosmic Egg (albanian white hood - "Plis" or "Qeleshe", is only a man cap), turned back, and to put in the head the another half, just like the symbol of Zeus here:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084585705986_100001133356751_66198_764216 9_n.jpg


So, like the seed that came from the Cosmic Egg or the Egg of the Worlds and brought the life, and the Bride "emerges" from the Egg and bring life in that house.

In fact the entire albanian national dress represents that pelasgic religion, or symbolizes God/Almighty Creator.
Even the sleeves of the dress (Guna) that don't have to be wear but to connect behind, symbolizing comb / wings of divinity. For old religion (or better to say, from that original religion, what was copied latter from other cultures, especially from the Semitic peoples) says that when the Creator created life from the cosmic egg/egg of worlds, he was presented with comb/wings ...
This kind of theory of creation is writen somehow and in the Bible indireclty in Genesis.
Here you can see the symbolism of Comb/divine wings in albanian dress:
http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137352&stc=1&d=1284081980


See more in page 5 in this topic about some other albanian national costumes and their symbolism:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page5

Sile
18-09-11, 02:33
I do not see any reference to albania from Strabo unless you are talking about Albania in the caucus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Epirus_%26_modern_borders.jpg

I do see epirus graeca for albania , which is greek illyrian which is new epirus ( conquered by the epirotes ) and NOT illyrian

PURE illyrian seems to E-v13 and only is between modern greece and modern montenegro borders

Illyrians only cremated their dead and placed weapons with the cremation.

Antigone
18-09-11, 08:19
A primary source is an eyewitness or first hand account, written or recorded AT THE TIME or SOON AFTER the event in question. Sorry, but not one thing you have listed is a primary source, so you have no definite proof of your claims.

A contemporary source is an account, written or recorded by a third party AT THE TIME or SOON AFTER the event in question. They are used to verify the primary source account.

At best, all you have given as way of proof are secondary or tertiary sources and written centuries or millenia after. If you can't understand this very basic first step in reading and evaluating history then I'd suggest you begin with this http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/education/008-3010-e.html .

ultimo_m
18-09-11, 15:03
LOL of course you can't tell stories about the "albanian" meaning of Illyria because it hasn't been invented yet. Albanian and FYROM share the same desire to invent and distort history for their own liking.

so what is your opinion about the argument that Besir Bajrami showed us about the origin of Ilyrian name , what do you think is it true? because you told me that you know the truth , if it isnt then tell me the right answer ? if you have time and know it of course ...

ultimo_m
18-09-11, 15:36
hey brothers can anyone ,who think that albanians are not ilyrians, tell me some arguments that put in doubt mine which are very simple one and with a primary source (i think so because greek know it more than me :P but all is relative ) :
do you know that the albanian buildings are build in the same place where the ilyrians buildings were ? do you know that the ancient towns of ilyria are in the same place where were build the towns of arberia (that are also called albanians ), that under the the medieval walls of arberia are the ancient walls of ilyria ? do you know that they have the same culture , tradition, costums etc, these means that albanians are ilyrians , and for sure i can tell that they have the same language as some writing ( a primary source ) found in mesapia in south eastern of italia near ilyria , who can give me arguments that can put these in doubt ?

Elias2
18-09-11, 16:45
hey brothers can anyone ,who think that albanians are not ilyrians, tell me some arguments that put in doubt mine which are very simple one and with a primary source (i think so because greek know it more than me :P but all is relative ) :
do you know that the albanian buildings are build in the same place where the ilyrians buildings were ? do you know that the ancient towns of ilyria are in the same place where were build the towns of arberia (that are also called albanians ), that under the the medieval walls of arberia are the ancient walls of ilyria ? do you know that they have the same culture , tradition, costums etc, these means that albanians are ilyrians , and for sure i can tell that they have the same language as some writing ( a primary source ) found in mesapia in south eastern of italia near ilyria , who can give me arguments that can put these in doubt ?


Being in the same place as illyrian doesn't mean you are Illyrian, or your culture. When they dug up the ruins of troy, they found that generation after generation of peples built cities in the same place and expanded it after the trojans were gone. The problems with albanian evidence is that its not imperical, you show "evidence" that is common throughout that area. Study the science of history then come up with evidence.

BTW the name "Ilyria" has a greek origin, and judging by that map Sile popsted of Ilyria Grecia, it gives good evidence why albanians are geneticaly closer to greeks then bosnians. The albanian language is foreign to the land, the minimal greek words is so self-evidend that only a fool will try to connect it to the land.

zanipolo
19-09-11, 13:02
hey brothers can anyone ,who think that albanians are not ilyrians, tell me some arguments that put in doubt mine which are very simple one and with a primary source (i think so because greek know it more than me :P but all is relative ) :
do you know that the albanian buildings are build in the same place where the ilyrians buildings were ? do you know that the ancient towns of ilyria are in the same place where were build the towns of arberia (that are also called albanians ), that under the the medieval walls of arberia are the ancient walls of ilyria ? do you know that they have the same culture , tradition, costums etc, these means that albanians are ilyrians , and for sure i can tell that they have the same language as some writing ( a primary source ) found in mesapia in south eastern of italia near ilyria , who can give me arguments that can put these in doubt ?


building on top of other older buildings is common in the ancient world...troy had 9 cities build on top of each other which lasted over 2000 years. Plus its quicker to use material already cut.

No one seen illyrian language ...so can you link it please.

Besir Bajrami
21-09-11, 03:10
@ Ultimo_m
What do you want to prove whith these words... buildings... the same place... we all know these things... if you want to talk about "Kulla" or the homes of albanians until the in the late 50 years, that were made in combination of fortress and home like a tower, and only albanians makes them in Balkans, and we now the reason... and this is another subject... but these our friends here are trying to play whith words and don't you see that you are a reason to make them play... don't you see that from the page 5 when you started do write you make them a track to play whith your words... after I shut them all the paths for a long time.

@ Elias2
You said that you would not post again in this topic (to be a desertor of slavic&greek propaganda)... i thing you make a good choice. Or if you want to post, there are questions and posts from the page 2,4,5,6... that are waiting for you to reply, and to send me here contra arguments from studies or books, like I did (becuase i enjoy to reply you whith books)... not to catch and manipulate whith someone else words.

And now, for the sake of other members here that are not here to transmit hate, pseudo nationalism, propaganda, and personal theories like "evidence" I dont have to reply all my posts from the page 2,4,5,6... that are connected whith your sickness, but I will reply only few words from above, just to remember that you are trying to pass them whithout reading them and write something stupid like Illyria is greek name:P - Tell me the ethymology like i did.

...Illyria has pure an albanian meaning:
1. I lir = free (I'm free= Une jam i lirë; or free people)
2. ill or yll = Star; Like firs king of Illyrians - Bardhyl - Bardh=white; Yll-Star. Also Ar (Is antonym. Before was used about the meaning of the sun, now more is used about the meaning about the human. As "shqiptar" - shqip=eagle; ar=human)
Which one do you want to take ? ;)

+ Do you have a albanian name: Over 60 names: http://www.behindthename.com/bb/fact/32704
+ http://www.aboutnames.ch/albanian.htm
+ Illyrian word=Albanian words: http://www.illyrians.org/illyrian-alb.html
+ many Illyrian..............................Albanian.... .................English words from the page 4 in this topic: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page4 ... dont make me to repeat the arguments, or don't talk about them, if you don't even read at all. I wonder, how can you speak scientifically, if you don't even read the arguments - read the albanian-illyrian ties too (just read something man:)...

+ I want to make you know also, that we Albanians in recent years (before the '90) were stopped from slavs the naming of children in albanian meaning that has to do whith history, as Ilir, Agron, Bato, Bardhyl, Alban, Arbër, Dardan, Taulant, Kreshnik... and my father was in jail for 11 months only beacuse my brother was named Ilir - So, now you can think how deep was the repression of invaders to stop the albanian national memory... even the stoping of the basics human rights, like is the naming of your son...

By the way, if you want to talk about names, I have other tons of materials, but after replying me about these in previous pages, in the last page at least.

... So after all these arguments, why you still proceed to be so pseudo-nationalist in your aproach ?!
(science has suffered a lot from people like you)


+ Exactly that albanians are geneticaly closer to greeks then slavs, tells us that a huge greek population are whith an albanian blood (arvanites), even that they were assimilated in greeks of today whith a help of religion.
Also greeks and pelasgians were lived besides each other, and were mixed from that time, that's why albanians and greeks share the same dna but whith slavs not... even that these few haplotypes in common whith slaves, are from a part of Illyrians that were assimilated in slavic population later.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/180623_167535863294191_100001133356751_327128_5968 696_n.jpg

Greek constitution in 1821

This is the approach that today Greece and "new greek nation" is formed. Here's the constitution of 1821 in Greece
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1227707_n.jpg

Here is translated in english:
http://i55.tinypic.com/29qjyuu.jpg

...is clearly seen in what basis the Greek state was formed, thus clearly stating that the Greeks had no need to talk Greek, or to have Greek blood, enough was the religion (ie Orthodox) and this policy made possible the absorption (or assimilation) of many other ethnicities.

New question for you:
How can you explain that a lot of latins and greeks words are in use today from albanians ? - And this is phenomenon is precisely in relation with the intensity of occupation over Illyrians... Latins held under occupation Illyrians longer and greeks held under occupation Illyrians shorter... that's why in albanian lexicon today are more latin words than greeks.

P.S:
I'm waiting for you to quote every my sentence, including the pieces from books that i transmit to you and to reply me whith contra ARGUMENTS, from studies (books)... if not, than cure your sickness.

@ Antigone
Hahaha... eyewitness a ? :D... You and I can't be an eyewitness about the time of pelasgians... But we can see albanians today to make e parallel whith that what ancient writers wrote (from primary sourced:) about these people, their language, culture, history...
+ Do you know that when an institutions like Britannica or scientist of that caliber make an conclusions, like those what I have cited, are based exactly in these primary or contemporary sources that were left from that time, and are present to today... therefore these are much more reliable than what YOU or your friend think, so if you are alergic from primary sources from culture, symbolism, words or language... than make a progress from institutions like Britannica or scientist of the caliber of they above.
Otherwise, reply every my sentence from the page 2,4,5 & 6, whith your primary sources ;)

@ Sile
When I mention Strabo, I was thinking in these arguments:
Besides the Albania in Caucasus, Strabo, in his “Geographia”, mentioned a population called Oi Albanoi, with their capital Albanopolis, 20 km in the north-west of the actual Tirana.
+ Encyclopedia > Albania (toponym)
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Albania-%28toponym%29
The credits belong To Pelasgians
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...lasgians+&aq=f

Q. What was Greece before the time of the Hellenes.
A.Strabo in his Geography Strabonis Book 7
Hecataeus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus that before the time of
the Greeks it was inhabited by barbarians. Yet one might say that in the ancient times the whole of Greece was a settlement of barbarians


Q.When Hellenes are mentioned for the first time
A.Thucydides/History_of_The_Peloponnesia n_War_-_Book_I/
There is also another circumstance that contributes not a little to my conviction of the weakness of ancient times. Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name(Helen)........went by the names of the different tribes, in particular of the Pelasgian.......The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name(helens)..........He does not even use the term barbarian, probably because the Hellenes had not yet been marked off from the rest of the world by one distinctive appellation...gradually acquired from the connection the name of Hellenes; though a long time elapsed before that name could fasten itself upon all(after 8th century BC )

Homer Born ca. 8th century BC

Conclusion NO Helenes before 8 th century


Q.Which were the population of greece before Helenes
A. Acheans or Argives, Danaio, Cecropes, Arcadians

Q Acheans , Argives, Danaio, Cecropes, Arcadians belong to pelasgian nation? (Modified)
A. Yes...................Why?

1.Argos, the kingdom of Agamemnon, famous for its cities Mycenae and Tirynth, where have been discovered in our time priceless treasures of a buried Pelasgian civilization, had also been a country of the Pelasgians. Argos is given the name Pelasgia by Eschyl (Prom. v. 860), Euripides (Orestes, v. 675, 849, 1611; Iphig. in Aulida, v. 1494; Erakles mainomenos, v. 462), Eustathius (Comm. In Dionysium, 347), and Strabo (lib. VIII. 6. 9).
2.Arcadia, a region surrounded by mountains and inhabited by a pastoral people with simple and patriarchal mores, had once the name “Pelasgia” (Steph. Byz. ‘Arkadia; Herodotus, lib.I. 146).
3.Beotia also, a country rich in sheep flocks and herds of cattle and horses, with the famous Parnassus and Helicon mountains, with their fine valleys dedicated to the divinities, had been inhabited in ancient times by Pelasgians (Strabo, lib. IX. 2. 25; Ibid. IX. 2. 3).
4.The entire Peloponessus, a country covered in vast woodlands, crisscrossed by numerous rivers and streams, with very favorable conditions for a pastoral life, had been called in antiquity Pelasgia, as the historians Acusilaus (fragm 11, Frag. Hist. graec. I. p. 101), and Ephorus (fragm. 54, ibid. p. 248; Pliny, lib. IV. 5. 1) tell us.
5.Thessaly, the most fertile and beautiful territory of ancient Greece, situated between Olympus, Ossa, Pelion and Pindus mountains, had once bore the name Pelasgicon Argos (Homer, Iliad, II. v. 681; Strabo, Geogr. VIII. 6. 5), Pelasgicon pedion (Strabo, Geogr. Ix. 5. 22), meaning the plain of the Pelasgians, and Pelasgia (Hecateus, Fragm. 334, in Fragm Hist. graec. I. Ed. Didot, p. 25; Ibid, vol. IV. P. 501; Eustathius, Comm. In Dionysium v. 427).


Q.What are Hellenes?
A. Herodotus: from The History, c. 430 B.C., I.56-59

We must pronounce that the Pelasgi spoke a barbarous language. If this were really so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi, must have changed their language at the same time that they passed into the Hellenic body...The Hellenic race has never, since its first origin, changed its speech. ...... It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians. The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian race which never greatly multiplied.

So they(helenes) were scanty in numbers and little powers, therefore the culture and territories belonged to Pelasgians.

Q.Who are pelasgians?
A.Strabonis Book VII
....And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably Greece is held by the barbarians--Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly by the thracians,and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the Thesproti, the Cassopaei,the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes--Epeirotic tribes.

Q. Who are Illyrians, and Epeirotes and Macedonians(old)
1.-----A. SCANDERBED (Albanian national hero)

Knowledge of my race. My elders(for all albanians not Scanderbeg only-my note) were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies."

"I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep(ALBANIANS-my note). But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"

2.------DICTIONARIVM -LATINO-EPIROTICVM
http://www.mdevaan.nl/research/Blanchus.pdf


Herodotus Clio pg 13 These were the Lacedaemonians and the Athenians, the former of Doric, the latter of Ionic blood. And indeed these two nations had held from very, early times the most distinguished place in Greece, the being a Pelasgic, the other a Hellenic people, and the one having never quitted its original seats, while the other had been excessively migratory; for duringthe reign of Deucalion, Phthiotis was the country in which the Hellenes dwelt, but under Dorus, the son of Hellen, they moved to the tract at the base of Ossa and Olympus, which is called Histiaeotis; forced to retire from that region by the Cadmeians, they settled, under the name of Macedni, in the chain of Pindus. Hence they once more removed and came to Dryopis; and from Dryopis having entered the Peloponnese in this way, they became known as Dorians. What the language of the Pelasgi was I cannot say with any certainty. If, however, we may form a conjecture from the tongue spoken by the Pelasgi of the present day- those, for instance, who live at Creston above the Tyrrhenians, who formerly dwelt in the district named Thessaliotis, and were neighbours of the people now called the Dorians- or those again who founded Placia and Scylace upon the Hellespont, who had previously dwelt for some time with the Athenians- or those, in short, of any other of the cities which have dropped the name but are in fact Pelasgian; if, I say, we are to form a conjecture from any of these, we must pronounce that the Pelasgi spoke a barbarous language. If this were really so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi

Herodotus, Polymnia ix.) .....The Ionians furnished a hundred ships, and were armed like the Greeks. Now these Ionians, during the time that they dwelt in the Peloponnese and inhabited the land now called Achaea (which wasbefore the arrival of Danaus and Xuthus in the Peloponnese), were called, according to the Greek account, Aegialean Pelasgi, or "Pelasgi of the Sea-shore"; but afterwards, from Ion the son of Xuthus, they were called Ionians.

Herodotus Urania pg 9 The Athenians, when the region which is now called Greece was held by the Pelasgi, were Pelasgians, and bore the name of Cranaans; but under their king Cecrops, they were called Cecropidae

The Islanders furnished seventeen ships, and wore arms like the
Greeks. They too were a Pelasgian race, who in later times took the name of Ionians for the same reason me reason as those who inhabited the twelve cities founded from Athens.

The Aeolians furnished sixty ships, and were equipped in the
Grecian fashion. They too were anciently called Pelasgians, as the
Greeks declare.

Iliad Rapsodies 1-6 The Dardanians were led by brave Aeneas, whom Venus bore to Anchises, when she, goddess though she was, had lain with him upon the mountain slopes of Ida. He was not alone, for with him were the two sons of Antenor, Archilochus and Acamas, both skilled in all the arts of war

Homerus Iliad Rapsodies i) Hippothous led the tribes of Pelasgian spearsmen, who dwelt in fertile Larissa- Hippothous, and Pylaeus of the race of Mars, two sons of the Pelasgian Lethus, son of Teutamus


New authors:
Dorian Greeks settled in Illyria before 2000 BC, ancient regions of the Balkan peninsula occupied by Indo-European-speaking tribes, including the Dalmatians and Pannonians. Warlike and piratical, they withstood (6th cent. B.C.) Greeks attracted by their iron mines and later attacks by Macedonians.
The Romans conquered them and set up (168-167 B.C.) the province of Illyricum.

The following ex. give a clear answer about argives, danaus, peloponesus and arcadians, tyrrenoi people, thesaly(when achiles comes from) etc

1.Strabonis Book V Chapter 2 ... And Thessaly is called "the Pelasgian Argos..

1.Hecataeus, makes Pelasgus king of Thessaly (expounding Iliad, 2.681-684)

2.Sophocles takes the same view (Inachus, fragment. 256) and for the first time introduces the ethnonym Tyrrhenoi, apparently as synonymous with "Pelasgians

3. Hellanicus(Supplices I, sqq.), repeats this identification a generation later, and identifies this Argive or Arcadian Pelasgus with the Thessalian Pelasgus of Hecataeus.

4.The historian Ephorus preserves a passage from Hesiod that attests to a tradition of an aboriginal Pelasgian people in Arcadia, and developed a theory of the Pelasgians as a warrior-people spreading from a "Pelasgian home", and annexing and colonizing all the parts of Greece.

------
And here a part of the list of people who participated in war
......
PHLEGYAI

Capital: Trikke

"They who held Trikke and the terraced place of Ithome, and Oikhalia, the city of Oikhalian Eurytos, of these in turn the leaders were two sons of Asklepios, good healers both themselves, Podaleirios and Makhaon. In their command were marshalled thirty hollow vessels." - Homer, The Iliad 2.729

ORMENIOS

Capital: Ormenios

"They who held Ormenios and the spring of Hypereia, they who held Asterion and the pale peaks of Titanos, Eurypylos led these, the shining son of Euaimon. Following along with him were forty black ships." - Homer, The Iliad 2.734

DOROS

At the time of the Trojan War the kingdom of Doros was ruled by the Herakleidai (sons of Herakles). They did not take part in the Trojan War since the Heraklid suitor of Helene, Tlepolemos, had been exiled to the island of Rhodes.

LAPITHAI

Capital: Gyrtone

"They who held Argissa and dwelt about Gyrtone, Orthe and Elone and the white city of Oloosson, of these the leader was Polypoites, stubborn in battle, son of Peirithoos whose father was Zeus immortal, he whom glorious Hippodameia bore to Peirithoos on that day when he wreaked vengeance on the Pheres [the Centaurs] and drove them from Pelion ... Following in the guidance of these were forty black ships." - Homer, The Iliad 2.738
Remember..... Hippothous led the tribes of Pelasgian spearsmen

PERRRHAIBIA

Capital: Kyphos, Dodona

"Gouneus from Kyphos led two and twenty vessels, and the Enienes and the Perrhaibians stubborn in battle followed him, they who made their homes by wintry Dodona, and they who by lovely Titaressos held the tilled acres, Titaressos, who into Peneios casts his bright current: yet he is not mixed with silver whirls of Peneios, but like oil is floated along the surface above him." - Homer, The Iliad 2.748
..........


So Dorians (hellenes) did not take part in war, period.

Go to google and punch "dorians origin"
You will see "Greeks Origin"
These people are the only greeks history knows and their roots are from Illyria+epirus=arberia (in old times was bigger than that)


Dorian

Any member of a major division of the ancient Greeks. Coming from the north and northwest, they conquered the Peloponnese c. 1100 – 1000 BC, overran the remnants of the Mycenaean and Minoan civilizations, and ushered in a dark age that lasted almost three centuries, until the rise of the Greek city-states. They had their own dialect and were organized into three tribes. Patterns of settlement determined their alliances in later Greek conflicts. To Greek culture they gave the Doric order of architecture, the tragic choral lyric, and a militarized aristocratic government. They assimilated into Greek societies in some cases, but in Sparta and Crete they held power and resisted cultural advancement.

North and northwest means-Illyria+epirus

Minoan (3000-1500 BC)
"Minoan" culture on Crete, with large population and rich palace-centres. Non-Greek speakers.(Linear A - still undeciphered)

Dark Age" (transition to Iron Age) (1100-850 BC) Dorians enter in Greece About 1100 (b.c.) the Dorians entered the area, armed with iron spears and shields and whipped out the Myceans.
Break-up of Mycenaean civilization; Greek settlements throughout the Aegean Islands and the coast of Asia Minor. (Linear B script used for palace records)

Geometric and Archaic Period (850-480 BC)
Alphabetic script adapted from Phoenician in Greece, ca 750.
Emergence of the classical Greek city-states, governed by family groups or dictators (mainly 7th-6th century),or democracies (begun by Athens, 5th century)

High Classical Period (480-323 BC)
Greek city-states flourish until overshadowed by the powerful Macedonian kings. Philip of Macedon rules Greece; his son Alexander campaigns as far east as India, conquering Persia and Egypt, before dying in 323 BC

Hellenistic Period (323-146 BC); Roman Republic (to 44 BC)
Alexander's empire fragments into Greek monarchies in Macedonia, Syria and Egypt.
Roman overseas expansion begins in 208 BC;
Hellenization of Roman myth & religion.
Greece becomes a Roman province.
The Roman Republic ends with a seizure of power by Julius Caesar (assassinated 44 BC)

c.1100 The Dorians destroyed Mycenae. According to legend, Timenos, Chief of the Dorians, founded the Argos Regime in Peloponnesus. Xanthos, Chief of the Aeolians, founded the Thebes Regime in Boeotia.
Do you understand now that Achaeans were wiped out by Helenes(Dorians).Therefore they dont belong to Hellenes culture. On the top of that Achaeans had only very limited territory occupying only the northern part of the Peloponnesus on the Gulf of Corinth. What about the rest?

Ionians, Arcadians and Aeolians were originally pelasgians and joined the helenic body only shortly before the begining of High Classical Period.

1. ---- Argos, the kingdom of Agamemnon, famous for its cities Mycenae and Tirynth, where have been discovered in our time priceless treasures of a buried Pelasgian civilization, had also been a country of the Pelasgians. Argos is given the name Pelasgia by Eschyl (Prom. v. 860), Euripides (Orestes, v. 675, 849, 1611; Iphig. in Aulida, v. 1494; Erakles mainomenos, v. 462), Eustathius (Comm. In Dionysium, 347), and Strabo (lib. VIII. 6. 9).
2.---- Arcadia, a region surrounded by mountains and inhabited by a pastoral people with simple and patriarchal mores, had once the name “Pelasgia” (Steph. Byz. ‘Arkadia; Herodotus, lib.I. 146).
3.---- Beotia also, a country rich in sheep flocks and herds of cattle and horses, with the famous Parnassus and Helicon mountains, with their fine valleys dedicated to the divinities, had been inhabited in ancient times by Pelasgians (Strabo, lib. IX. 2. 25; Ibid. IX. 2. 3).
4.---- The entire Peloponessus, a country covered in vast woodlands, crisscrossed by numerous rivers and streams, with very favorable conditions for a pastoral life, had been called in antiquity Pelasgia, as the historians Acusilaus (fragm 11, Frag. Hist. graec. I. p. 101), and Ephorus (fragm. 54, ibid. p. 248; Pliny, lib. IV. 5. 1) tell us.
5.---- Thessaly, the most fertile and beautiful territory of ancient Greece, situated between Olympus, Ossa, Pelion and Pindus mountains, had once bore the name Pelasgicon Argos (Homer, Iliad, II. v. 681; Strabo, Geogr. VIII. 6. Pelasgicon pedion (Strabo, Geogr. Ix. 5. 22), meaning the plain of the Pelasgians, and Pelasgia (Hecateus, Fragm. 334, in Fragm Hist. graec. I. Ed. Didot, p. 25; Ibid, vol. IV. P. 501; Eustathius, Comm. In Dionysium v. 427)
________
Let's live in peace with our neigbour(GREEKS) because the History belong to us.

@ Zanipolo
Read the materials in page 4 in this topic...

@ All
Dear greek and south slavic propagandists and pseudo nationalists, leave us to discuss about the topic, because it's really interesting for normal peoples.

P.S.:
Also, about maps, you have to understand that they don't describe the autochthony always, but they are the result of expensions (invasions). We have survival history and as you go deeper in time, will see that our territory is larger. Restriction (contraction) of our territory is continuous occurrence since prehistory, we can't boast with any map, except the oldest ones that comfort us a little bit (because contraction is lower).
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3356751&type=1
We have also occupations maps that there is no Albania, but this does not mean that there was no Albanian ...
In fact these are maps that invasions are documented. Even just on the basis of maps of this kind, neighbors claim territories. And not whith autochthony.


P.S.:
Albanians have a surviving history and they don't care about history, or to tell you who were, or to know more about these things... Albanian nationalism is 0... that's why these people who still survived remained around separated borders from the year 1913 (for the last time that we were divided), still can't make their natural state, to reach the point (o)zero, like every nation in Europe, because now we are in - (minus). The institutions don't care about these things too... the primary task about us was to survive from invaders... and now is to make money, because the poverty has been a permanent problem about us, this fact make terrain about predatory neighbors, to continue with their claims to take the whole country.
I'm interesting about history, only because I am angry whith the poor anti-albanian propaganda which circulates from the southern Slavs and Greeks, only because they still want to tear apart the territory of the Albanians wich is left and the right of autochthony make nervous the predatory neighbors.

...but these studies about the language, culture, symbolism, antropology, history of the albanians... are done from foreign scientists (Germans, French, British, Americans, Italians, and even some truth seekers Slavic and Greek scientists). They have observed a very old language, very ancient symbolism, old race and very old model of culture at all, of these survival people that are trying to Self-isolate themself in mountains, from permanent invasions. But if for the scientists albanians are treasure, guarded from the modern deformation, the dark side of this fact is the ignorance of the survivors and cultural inclination/trend/propensity what is recorded in DNA and have to pass more than 6,000 years to alter fundamentally.

Besides preserving the old original language of Europe (Pelasgian language), regardless of atrocities, speak for the original words, that method through the comparison of languages, and ethymology, it turns out that this language was the creator language of the elite of that time (Greek language) and that of laters, Latin language (read about pelasgian language, to make a parallel), then, for addition to the language, the culture in general is preserved in its originality in the Albanian mountains ... symbolism also ... cultural trend even for Albanians remained pagan ... they use modified pagan elements in monotheistic religions imposed later by the invasion, celebrate pagan festivals ... Albania for a period even proclaimed as the first atheist country in the world ... This also explains the amazing religious harmony ... because cultural trend is the same. Only these recently years with the uncontrolled opening of this state from outside influences, have begun disruption observed.

ultimo_m
21-09-11, 15:38
all i have said are based more on the studies of Eqerem Cabej and in our written history form our historians, not from others who most of them are paid to lie, most of things that you can find in internet are not based on real studies. later i will translate you smth

ultimo_m
21-09-11, 15:41
Being in the same place as illyrian doesn't mean you are Illyrian, or your culture. When they dug up the ruins of troy, they found that generation after generation of peples built cities in the same place and expanded it after the trojans were gone. The problems with albanian evidence is that its not imperical, you show "evidence" that is common throughout that area. Study the science of history then come up with evidence.

BTW the name "Ilyria" has a greek origin, and judging by that map Sile popsted of Ilyria Grecia, it gives good evidence why albanians are geneticaly closer to greeks then bosnians. The albanian language is foreign to the land, the minimal greek words is so self-evidend that only a fool will try to connect it to the land.

you are right !!! but can you tell me where have you read this or who has studied our history, our origin ?

Elias2
21-09-11, 23:26
you are right !!! but can you tell me where have you read this or who has studied our history, our origin ?

I have looked at the evidence myself and there isn't anything to connect Albanian ethos to Illyrians.

But what I've come to realize about nationalism and history is that it doesn't necessarily have to match or be accurate/truthfull, as long as the people think it is, that is good enough. I can think of three countries in the balkans off the top of my head who have this mentality. (four if you count Turkey as a balkan country).

Besir Bajrami (2)
22-09-11, 01:09
Albanians ridiculed for their backwardness, or the old way of living, as a consequence of self-isolation ... but on the other hand, is not being respecting what is observed with this self- isolation, that is the old language, symbols, culture in general, race, etc ... This is a double standard so often in use from manipulative peoples, from which science has suffered so much, like George F. Wiliams reach the conclusion that albanian question is European civilization scandal.

Everything that we (as a nation in extinction), ask, is the emergence of reciprocity and justice... Not nationalism, but simply to respect the fact and not to prejudge from something what they read from propaganda that was not politically convenient the autochthony of these unfortunate peoples Researchers have already said their speech, but it recovered by the force of propaganda by powerful states... I see that to answer with books like I do, prevents someone and is shocket... so they stopped me to replicate further in this forum with the account Besir Bajrami, and allows people like elias2 or iapedos to continue to desecrate the pseudo science nationalism even that they dont have guts to replicate even the scientific parts, but dealing with science fiction...
Even that now we are tired of the injustices, even has a tendency to change the nationality, the acceptance of new conquests ... and no interest for history, not even in institutions. To eradicate the permanen extreme poverty is the overriding duty of the Albanians have put theirrself and national awareness is zero.
- I respond here as a result of extreme propaganda of the states around us, which was preventing the Albanian autochthony, and place a theory that the Albanians may well be alien, only it does not belong in this country where land have remained and continue to dissolve.


...So, finally "they" have more for pride. We? We have what to laugh. Bragging: EPIR Greek? Macedonia Greek? Dance cam-OCI [Cham] Greek? Fustanella/kilt Greek? Suliot revolution, Greek ? Trojans Greek ? Illyria Graecia ? Dorians Greek ? Pelasgian Iones Greek? Now even Albanians Greek ? etc ... The truth does not have any great value for humanity. If it does than it would not be misuse. However, we survived here where we were. Again, as we were. Again, older than the Greeks. And we will rerborn as our national symbol> Phoenix

@ Ultimo_m
What do you want to prove whith these words... buildings... the same place... we all know these things... if you want to talk about "Kulla" or the homes of albanians until the in the late 50 years, that were made in combination of fortress and home like a tower, and only albanians makes them in Balkans, and we now the reason... and this is another subject... but these our friends here are trying to play whith words and don't you see that you are a reason to make them play... don't you see that from the page 5 when you started do write you make them a track to play whith your words... after I shut them all the paths for a long time.

@ Elias2
You said that you would not post again in this topic (to be a desertor of slavic&greek propaganda)... i thing you make a good choice. Or if you want to post, there are questions and posts from the page 2,4,5,6... that are waiting for you to reply, and to send me here contra arguments from studies or books, like I did (becuase i enjoy to reply you whith books)... not to catch and manipulate whith someone else words.

And now, for the sake of other members here that are not here to transmit hate, pseudo nationalism, propaganda, and personal theories like "evidence" I dont have to reply all my posts from the page 2,4,5,6... that are connected whith your sickness, but I will reply only few words from above, just to remember that you are trying to pass them whithout reading them and write something stupid like Illyria is greek name:P - Tell me the ethymology like i did.

...Illyria has pure an albanian meaning:
1. I lir = free (I'm free= Une jam i lirë; or free people)
2. ill or yll = Star; Like firs king of Illyrians - Bardhyl - Bardh=white; Yll-Star. Also Ar (Is antonym. Before was used about the meaning of the sun, now more is used about the meaning about the human. As "shqiptar" - shqip=eagle; ar=human)
Which one do you want to take ? ;)

+ Do you have a albanian name: Over 60 names: http://www.behindthename.com/bb/fact/32704
+ http://www.aboutnames.ch/albanian.htm
+ Illyrian word=Albanian words: http://www.illyrians.org/illyrian-alb.html
+ many Illyrian..............................Albanian.... .................English words from the page 4 in this topic: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page4 ... dont make me to repeat the arguments, or don't talk about them, if you don't even read at all. I wonder, how can you speak scientifically, if you don't even read the arguments - read the albanian-illyrian ties too (just read something man:)...

+ I want to make you know also, that we Albanians in recent years (before the '90) were stopped from slavs the naming of children in albanian meaning that has to do whith history, as Ilir, Agron, Bato, Bardhyl, Alban, Arbër, Dardan, Taulant, Kreshnik... and my father was in jail for 11 months only beacuse my brother was named Ilir - So, now you can think how deep was the repression of invaders to stop the albanian national memory... even the stoping of the basics human rights, like is the naming of your son...

By the way, if you want to talk about names, I have other tons of materials, but after replying me about these in previous pages, in the last page at least.

... So after all these arguments, why you still proceed to be so pseudo-nationalist in your aproach ?!
(science has suffered a lot from people like you)


+ Exactly that albanians are geneticaly closer to greeks then slavs, tells us that a huge greek population are whith an albanian blood (arvanites), even that they were assimilated in greeks of today whith a help of religion.
Also greeks and pelasgians were lived besides each other, and were mixed from that time, that's why albanians and greeks share the same dna but whith slavs not... even that these few haplotypes in common whith slaves, are from a part of Illyrians that were assimilated in slavic population later.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/180623_167535863294191_100001133356751_327128_5968 696_n.jpg

Greek constitution in 1821

This is the approach that today Greece and "new greek nation" is formed. Here's the constitution of 1821 in Greece
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1227707_n.jpg

Here is translated in english:
http://i55.tinypic.com/29qjyuu.jpg

...is clearly seen in what basis the Greek state was formed, thus clearly stating that the Greeks had no need to talk Greek, or to have Greek blood, enough was the religion (ie Orthodox) and this policy made possible the absorption (or assimilation) of many other ethnicities.

New question for you:
How can you explain that a lot of latins and greeks words are in use today from albanians ? - And this is phenomenon is precisely in relation with the intensity of occupation over Illyrians... Latins held under occupation Illyrians longer and greeks held under occupation Illyrians shorter... that's why in albanian lexicon today are more latin words than greeks.

P.S:
I'm waiting for you to quote every my sentence, including the pieces from books that i transmit to you and to reply me whith contra ARGUMENTS, from studies (books)... if not, than cure your sickness.

@ Antigone
Hahaha... eyewitness a ? :D... You and I can't be an eyewitness about the time of pelasgians... But we can see albanians today to make e parallel whith that what ancient writers wrote about these people, their language, culture, history...
+ Do you know that when an institutions like Britannica or scientist of the caliber make an conclusions, like those what I have cited, are based exactly in these primary or contemporary sources that were left from that time, and are present to today... therefore these are much more reliable than what YOU or your friend think, so if you are alergic from primary sources from culture, symbolism, words or language... than make a progress from institutions like Britannica or scientist of the caliber of they above.
Otherwise, reply every my sentence from the page 2,4,5 & 6, whith your primary sources ;)

@ Sile
When I mention Strabo, I was thinking in these arguments:
Besides the Albania in Caucasus, Strabo, in his “Geographia”, mentioned a population called Oi Albanoi, with their capital Albanopolis, 20 km in the north-west of the actual Tirana.
+ Encyclopedia > Albania (toponym)
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Albania-%28toponym%29
The credits belong To Pelasgians
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...lasgians+&aq=f

Q. What was Greece before the time of the Hellenes.
A.Strabo in his Geography Strabonis Book 7
Hecataeus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus that before the time of
the Greeks it was inhabited by barbarians. Yet one might say that in the ancient times the whole of Greece was a settlement of barbarians


Q.When Hellenes are mentioned for the first time
A.Thucydides/History_of_The_Peloponnesia n_War_-_Book_I/
There is also another circumstance that contributes not a little to my conviction of the weakness of ancient times. Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name(Helen)........went by the names of the different tribes, in particular of the Pelasgian.......The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name(helens)..........He does not even use the term barbarian, probably because the Hellenes had not yet been marked off from the rest of the world by one distinctive appellation...gradually acquired from the connection the name of Hellenes; though a long time elapsed before that name could fasten itself upon all(after 8th century BC )

Homer Born ca. 8th century BC

Conclusion NO Helenes before 8 th century


Q.Which were the population of greece before Helenes
A. Acheans or Argives, Danaio, Cecropes, Arcadians

Q Acheans , Argives, Danaio, Cecropes, Arcadians belong to pelasgian nation? (Modified)
A. Yes...................Why?

1.Argos, the kingdom of Agamemnon, famous for its cities Mycenae and Tirynth, where have been discovered in our time priceless treasures of a buried Pelasgian civilization, had also been a country of the Pelasgians. Argos is given the name Pelasgia by Eschyl (Prom. v. 860), Euripides (Orestes, v. 675, 849, 1611; Iphig. in Aulida, v. 1494; Erakles mainomenos, v. 462), Eustathius (Comm. In Dionysium, 347), and Strabo (lib. VIII. 6. 9).
2.Arcadia, a region surrounded by mountains and inhabited by a pastoral people with simple and patriarchal mores, had once the name “Pelasgia” (Steph. Byz. ‘Arkadia; Herodotus, lib.I. 146).
3.Beotia also, a country rich in sheep flocks and herds of cattle and horses, with the famous Parnassus and Helicon mountains, with their fine valleys dedicated to the divinities, had been inhabited in ancient times by Pelasgians (Strabo, lib. IX. 2. 25; Ibid. IX. 2. 3).
4.The entire Peloponessus, a country covered in vast woodlands, crisscrossed by numerous rivers and streams, with very favorable conditions for a pastoral life, had been called in antiquity Pelasgia, as the historians Acusilaus (fragm 11, Frag. Hist. graec. I. p. 101), and Ephorus (fragm. 54, ibid. p. 248; Pliny, lib. IV. 5. 1) tell us.
5.Thessaly, the most fertile and beautiful territory of ancient Greece, situated between Olympus, Ossa, Pelion and Pindus mountains, had once bore the name Pelasgicon Argos (Homer, Iliad, II. v. 681; Strabo, Geogr. VIII. 6. 5), Pelasgicon pedion (Strabo, Geogr. Ix. 5. 22), meaning the plain of the Pelasgians, and Pelasgia (Hecateus, Fragm. 334, in Fragm Hist. graec. I. Ed. Didot, p. 25; Ibid, vol. IV. P. 501; Eustathius, Comm. In Dionysium v. 427).


Q.What are Hellenes?
A. Herodotus: from The History, c. 430 B.C., I.56-59

We must pronounce that the Pelasgi spoke a barbarous language. If this were really so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi, must have changed their language at the same time that they passed into the Hellenic body...The Hellenic race has never, since its first origin, changed its speech. ...... It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians. The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian race which never greatly multiplied.

So they(helenes) were scanty in numbers and little powers, therefore the culture and territories belonged to Pelasgians.

Q.Who are pelasgians?
A.Strabonis Book VII
....And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably Greece is held by the barbarians--Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly by the thracians,and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the Thesproti, the Cassopaei,the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes--Epeirotic tribes.

Q. Who are Illyrians, and Epeirotes and Macedonians(old)
1.-----A. SCANDERBED (Albanian national hero)

Knowledge of my race. My elders(for all albanians not Scanderbeg only-my note) were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies."

"I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep(ALBANIANS-my note). But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?"

2.------DICTIONARIVM -LATINO-EPIROTICVM
http://www.mdevaan.nl/research/Blanchus.pdf


Herodotus Clio pg 13 These were the Lacedaemonians and the Athenians, the former of Doric, the latter of Ionic blood. And indeed these two nations had held from very, early times the most distinguished place in Greece, the being a Pelasgic, the other a Hellenic people, and the one having never quitted its original seats, while the other had been excessively migratory; for duringthe reign of Deucalion, Phthiotis was the country in which the Hellenes dwelt, but under Dorus, the son of Hellen, they moved to the tract at the base of Ossa and Olympus, which is called Histiaeotis; forced to retire from that region by the Cadmeians, they settled, under the name of Macedni, in the chain of Pindus. Hence they once more removed and came to Dryopis; and from Dryopis having entered the Peloponnese in this way, they became known as Dorians. What the language of the Pelasgi was I cannot say with any certainty. If, however, we may form a conjecture from the tongue spoken by the Pelasgi of the present day- those, for instance, who live at Creston above the Tyrrhenians, who formerly dwelt in the district named Thessaliotis, and were neighbours of the people now called the Dorians- or those again who founded Placia and Scylace upon the Hellespont, who had previously dwelt for some time with the Athenians- or those, in short, of any other of the cities which have dropped the name but are in fact Pelasgian; if, I say, we are to form a conjecture from any of these, we must pronounce that the Pelasgi spoke a barbarous language. If this were really so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi

Herodotus, Polymnia ix.) .....The Ionians furnished a hundred ships, and were armed like the Greeks. Now these Ionians, during the time that they dwelt in the Peloponnese and inhabited the land now called Achaea (which wasbefore the arrival of Danaus and Xuthus in the Peloponnese), were called, according to the Greek account, Aegialean Pelasgi, or "Pelasgi of the Sea-shore"; but afterwards, from Ion the son of Xuthus, they were called Ionians.

Herodotus Urania pg 9 The Athenians, when the region which is now called Greece was held by the Pelasgi, were Pelasgians, and bore the name of Cranaans; but under their king Cecrops, they were called Cecropidae

The Islanders furnished seventeen ships, and wore arms like the
Greeks. They too were a Pelasgian race, who in later times took the name of Ionians for the same reason me reason as those who inhabited the twelve cities founded from Athens.

The Aeolians furnished sixty ships, and were equipped in the
Grecian fashion. They too were anciently called Pelasgians, as the
Greeks declare.

Iliad Rapsodies 1-6 The Dardanians were led by brave Aeneas, whom Venus bore to Anchises, when she, goddess though she was, had lain with him upon the mountain slopes of Ida. He was not alone, for with him were the two sons of Antenor, Archilochus and Acamas, both skilled in all the arts of war

Homerus Iliad Rapsodies i) Hippothous led the tribes of Pelasgian spearsmen, who dwelt in fertile Larissa- Hippothous, and Pylaeus of the race of Mars, two sons of the Pelasgian Lethus, son of Teutamus


New authors:
Dorian Greeks settled in Illyria before 2000 BC, ancient regions of the Balkan peninsula occupied by Indo-European-speaking tribes, including the Dalmatians and Pannonians. Warlike and piratical, they withstood (6th cent. B.C.) Greeks attracted by their iron mines and later attacks by Macedonians.
The Romans conquered them and set up (168-167 B.C.) the province of Illyricum.

The following ex. give a clear answer about argives, danaus, peloponesus and arcadians, tyrrenoi people, thesaly(when achiles comes from) etc

1.Strabonis Book V Chapter 2 ... And Thessaly is called "the Pelasgian Argos..

1.Hecataeus, makes Pelasgus king of Thessaly (expounding Iliad, 2.681-684)

2.Sophocles takes the same view (Inachus, fragment. 256) and for the first time introduces the ethnonym Tyrrhenoi, apparently as synonymous with "Pelasgians

3. Hellanicus(Supplices I, sqq.), repeats this identification a generation later, and identifies this Argive or Arcadian Pelasgus with the Thessalian Pelasgus of Hecataeus.

4.The historian Ephorus preserves a passage from Hesiod that attests to a tradition of an aboriginal Pelasgian people in Arcadia, and developed a theory of the Pelasgians as a warrior-people spreading from a "Pelasgian home", and annexing and colonizing all the parts of Greece.

------
And here a part of the list of people who participated in war
......
PHLEGYAI

Capital: Trikke

"They who held Trikke and the terraced place of Ithome, and Oikhalia, the city of Oikhalian Eurytos, of these in turn the leaders were two sons of Asklepios, good healers both themselves, Podaleirios and Makhaon. In their command were marshalled thirty hollow vessels." - Homer, The Iliad 2.729

ORMENIOS

Capital: Ormenios

"They who held Ormenios and the spring of Hypereia, they who held Asterion and the pale peaks of Titanos, Eurypylos led these, the shining son of Euaimon. Following along with him were forty black ships." - Homer, The Iliad 2.734

DOROS

At the time of the Trojan War the kingdom of Doros was ruled by the Herakleidai (sons of Herakles). They did not take part in the Trojan War since the Heraklid suitor of Helene, Tlepolemos, had been exiled to the island of Rhodes.

LAPITHAI

Capital: Gyrtone

"They who held Argissa and dwelt about Gyrtone, Orthe and Elone and the white city of Oloosson, of these the leader was Polypoites, stubborn in battle, son of Peirithoos whose father was Zeus immortal, he whom glorious Hippodameia bore to Peirithoos on that day when he wreaked vengeance on the Pheres [the Centaurs] and drove them from Pelion ... Following in the guidance of these were forty black ships." - Homer, The Iliad 2.738
Remember..... Hippothous led the tribes of Pelasgian spearsmen

PERRRHAIBIA

Capital: Kyphos, Dodona

"Gouneus from Kyphos led two and twenty vessels, and the Enienes and the Perrhaibians stubborn in battle followed him, they who made their homes by wintry Dodona, and they who by lovely Titaressos held the tilled acres, Titaressos, who into Peneios casts his bright current: yet he is not mixed with silver whirls of Peneios, but like oil is floated along the surface above him." - Homer, The Iliad 2.748
..........


So Dorians (hellenes) did not take part in war, period.

Go to google and punch "dorians origin"
You will see "Greeks Origin"
These people are the only greeks history knows and their roots are from Illyria+epirus=arberia (in old times was bigger than that)


Dorian

Any member of a major division of the ancient Greeks. Coming from the north and northwest, they conquered the Peloponnese c. 1100 – 1000 BC, overran the remnants of the Mycenaean and Minoan civilizations, and ushered in a dark age that lasted almost three centuries, until the rise of the Greek city-states. They had their own dialect and were organized into three tribes. Patterns of settlement determined their alliances in later Greek conflicts. To Greek culture they gave the Doric order of architecture, the tragic choral lyric, and a militarized aristocratic government. They assimilated into Greek societies in some cases, but in Sparta and Crete they held power and resisted cultural advancement.

North and northwest means-Illyria+epirus

Minoan (3000-1500 BC)
"Minoan" culture on Crete, with large population and rich palace-centres. Non-Greek speakers.(Linear A - still undeciphered)

Dark Age" (transition to Iron Age) (1100-850 BC) Dorians enter in Greece About 1100 (b.c.) the Dorians entered the area, armed with iron spears and shields and whipped out the Myceans.
Break-up of Mycenaean civilization; Greek settlements throughout the Aegean Islands and the coast of Asia Minor. (Linear B script used for palace records)

Geometric and Archaic Period (850-480 BC)
Alphabetic script adapted from Phoenician in Greece, ca 750.
Emergence of the classical Greek city-states, governed by family groups or dictators (mainly 7th-6th century),or democracies (begun by Athens, 5th century)

High Classical Period (480-323 BC)
Greek city-states flourish until overshadowed by the powerful Macedonian kings. Philip of Macedon rules Greece; his son Alexander campaigns as far east as India, conquering Persia and Egypt, before dying in 323 BC

Hellenistic Period (323-146 BC); Roman Republic (to 44 BC)
Alexander's empire fragments into Greek monarchies in Macedonia, Syria and Egypt.
Roman overseas expansion begins in 208 BC;
Hellenization of Roman myth & religion.
Greece becomes a Roman province.
The Roman Republic ends with a seizure of power by Julius Caesar (assassinated 44 BC)

c.1100 The Dorians destroyed Mycenae. According to legend, Timenos, Chief of the Dorians, founded the Argos Regime in Peloponnesus. Xanthos, Chief of the Aeolians, founded the Thebes Regime in Boeotia.
Do you understand now that Achaeans were wiped out by Helenes(Dorians).Therefore they dont belong to Hellenes culture. On the top of that Achaeans had only very limited territory occupying only the northern part of the Peloponnesus on the Gulf of Corinth. What about the rest?

Ionians, Arcadians and Aeolians were originally pelasgians and joined the helenic body only shortly before the begining of High Classical Period.

1. ---- Argos, the kingdom of Agamemnon, famous for its cities Mycenae and Tirynth, where have been discovered in our time priceless treasures of a buried Pelasgian civilization, had also been a country of the Pelasgians. Argos is given the name Pelasgia by Eschyl (Prom. v. 860), Euripides (Orestes, v. 675, 849, 1611; Iphig. in Aulida, v. 1494; Erakles mainomenos, v. 462), Eustathius (Comm. In Dionysium, 347), and Strabo (lib. VIII. 6. 9).
2.---- Arcadia, a region surrounded by mountains and inhabited by a pastoral people with simple and patriarchal mores, had once the name “Pelasgia” (Steph. Byz. ‘Arkadia; Herodotus, lib.I. 146).
3.---- Beotia also, a country rich in sheep flocks and herds of cattle and horses, with the famous Parnassus and Helicon mountains, with their fine valleys dedicated to the divinities, had been inhabited in ancient times by Pelasgians (Strabo, lib. IX. 2. 25; Ibid. IX. 2. 3).
4.---- The entire Peloponessus, a country covered in vast woodlands, crisscrossed by numerous rivers and streams, with very favorable conditions for a pastoral life, had been called in antiquity Pelasgia, as the historians Acusilaus (fragm 11, Frag. Hist. graec. I. p. 101), and Ephorus (fragm. 54, ibid. p. 248; Pliny, lib. IV. 5. 1) tell us.
5.---- Thessaly, the most fertile and beautiful territory of ancient Greece, situated between Olympus, Ossa, Pelion and Pindus mountains, had once bore the name Pelasgicon Argos (Homer, Iliad, II. v. 681; Strabo, Geogr. VIII. 6. Pelasgicon pedion (Strabo, Geogr. Ix. 5. 22), meaning the plain of the Pelasgians, and Pelasgia (Hecateus, Fragm. 334, in Fragm Hist. graec. I. Ed. Didot, p. 25; Ibid, vol. IV. P. 501; Eustathius, Comm. In Dionysium v. 427)
________
Let's live in peace with our neigbour(GREEKS) because the History belong to us.

@ Zanipolo
Read the materials in page 4 in this topic...

@ All
Dear greek and south slavic propagandists and pseudo nationalists, leave us to discuss about the topic, because it's really interesting for normal peoples.

P.S.:
Also, about maps, you have to understand that they don't describe the autochthony always, but they are the result of expensions (invasions). We have survival history and as you go deeper in time, will see that our territory is larger. Restriction (contraction) of our territory is continuous occurrence since prehistory, we can't boast with any map, except the oldest ones that comfort us a little bit (because contraction is lower).
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3356751&type=1
We have also occupations maps that there is no Albania, but this does not mean that there was no Albanian ...
In fact these are maps that invasions are documented. Even just on the basis of maps of this kind, neighbors claim territories. And not whith autochthony.


P.S.:
Albanians have a surviving history and they don't care about history, or to tell you who were, or to know more about these things... Albanian nationalism is 0... that's why these people who still survived remained around separated borders from the year 1913 (for the last time that we were divided), still can't make their natural state, to reach the point (o)zero, like every nation in Europe, because now we are in - (minus). The institutions don't care about these things too... the primary task about us was to survive from invaders... and now is to make money, because the poverty has been a permanent problem about us, this fact make terrain about predatory neighbors, to continue with their claims to take the whole country.
I'm interesting about history, only because I am angry whith the poor anti-albanian propaganda which circulates from the southern Slavs and Greeks, only because they still want to tear apart the territory of the Albanians wich is left and the right of autochthony make nervous the predatory neighbors.

...but these studies about the language, culture, symbolism, antropology, history of the albanians... are done from foreign scientists (Germans, French, British, Americans, Italians, and even some truth seekers Slavic and Greek scientists). They have observed a very old language, very ancient symbolism, old race and very old model of culture at all, of these survival people that are trying to Self-isolate themself in mountains, from permanent invasions. But if for the scientists albanians are treasure, guarded from the modern deformation, the dark side of this fact is the ignorance of the survivors and cultural inclination/trend/propensity what is recorded in DNA and have to pass more than 6,000 years to alter fundamentally.

Besides preserving the old original language of Europe (Pelasgian language), regardless of atrocities, speak for the original words, that method through the comparison of languages, and ethymology, it turns out that this language was the creator language of the elite of that time (Greek language) and that of laters, Latin language (read about pelasgian language, to make a parallel), then, for addition to the language, the culture in general is preserved in its originality in the Albanian mountains ... symbolism also ... cultural trend even for Albanians remained pagan ... they use modified pagan elements in monotheistic religions imposed later by the invasion, celebrate pagan festivals ... Albania for a period even proclaimed as the first atheist country in the world ... This also explains the amazing religious harmony ... because cultural trend is the same. Only these recently years with the uncontrolled opening of this state from outside influences, have begun disruption observed.

Antigone
22-09-11, 08:17
all i have said are based more on the studies of Eqerem Cabej and in our written history form our historians, not from others who most of them are paid to lie, most of things that you can find in internet are not based on real studies. later i will translate you smth

Who is paid to lie and why? This is a strange attitude, most historians are biased in some way, including your own btw, but they are only presenting an interpretation, opinion or theory on available (or in this case unavailable) data. Just because you personally may not agree with a particular interpretation does not make it a lie, it can only ever be a differing point of view.

Imo, the worst scenario is when nationaltism uses and distorts history for self justification, or in an effort for a nation to re-invent itself.

Besir Bajrami
23-09-11, 05:48
... and now, let's focus on the topic... we are talking about Fustanella
I enjoy talking whith books (professional studies), and I think that this new book is useful too:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/311053_288061701207324_151427651537397_1325401_180 0344497_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/294788_288061804540647_151427651537397_1325403_589 784186_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/300005_288061977873963_151427651537397_1325405_199 3792860_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/307256_288062164540611_151427651537397_1325407_641 156509_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/304175_288062367873924_151427651537397_1325410_134 640509_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/317263_288062694540558_151427651537397_1325413_890 20154_n.jpg

Titulli:The fabric of cultures: fashion, identity, and globalization
Eugenia Paulicelli, Hazel Clark- Taylor & Francis, 2009

FABRICATING GREEKNESS”, page 146-149
Papantoniou, loanna (2000) Greek Dress, Athens: Commercial Bank of Greece.
Petropoulos, Elias (1987) The Fustanella, Athens: Nefeli.
Winnifrith, Tom (1983) “Greeks and Romans,” in Tom Winnifrith and Penelope Murray (eds.), Greece Old and New, New York: St. Martin’s Press.
Woolf, Virginia (1993) Travels with Virginia Woolf, London: Pimlico.
Interviews
Papantoniou, loanna (2007) interview with the author, Nafplion, Greece, August.


__________________________________________________ __________________________________
+ Read more about the adoption of fustanella by the new Greeks:
http://www.google.com/#q=the+Albanian+fustanella%2C+which+was+adopted+by +the+Greeks&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&source=lnms&tbm=bks&ei=pwV8TsDnFYO70QW85uUF&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=8&ved=0CA4Q_AUoBw&prmdo=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=83de6c4bbdb0d450&biw=1024&bih=602

...{"fustan"-dress in albanian (and in no other language) = "funt/d"-the lower part of the dress; "an"-side (or the lower side of the dress - Fustanella);
Also "fus" - put, set, or wear and "tan" - all... so I put all my body in (this is for the womens dress-Fustan)... and "nella" is suffix to explain shorter Fustan-Fustanella.
Fustan is women dress; Fustanella is male dress;
Also "fút" (whith accent at "u"), is the name of that type of clothing, which we put forward at the bottom of the body, when we have to work something.... like freemasons today:)}...

Elias2
23-09-11, 14:37
Who is paid to lie and why? This is a strange attitude, most historians are biased in some way, including your own btw, but they are only presenting an interpretation, opinion or theory on available (or in this case unavailable) data. Just because you personally may not agree with a particular interpretation does not make it a lie, it can only ever be a differing point of view.

Imo, the worst scenario is when nationaltism uses and distorts history for self justification, or in an effort for a nation to re-invent itself.

This is the truth. Southern yugoslavs re-invent themselves as macedonians then try to prove it. Albanians try to think themselves as Illyrians then try to prove it, this is totaly backwards on what historians do, we look at the evidence then make conclutions, not the other way around. This is what nationalism does, it doesn't have to be correct, the masses just need to think its correct, but in the long run it will not hold up.

So albanians here keep on posting over strech assumptions because that's what they are assumptions.

Besir Bajrami
23-09-11, 17:16
Hahaha... you're for such a deplorable :P
... totally neutralized !
... you don't have guts to answer the questions, even to reply my sentences and quotes one by one like it should, if you have something to say :P

- Why don't you post a thought now: Albanians = Aliens... and try to defend it with your etymological rules: Al ban = Al ien... so Albanians are not autochthon but they invated greeks, romans, slavs, turks... (and post some map) that's why they are very big nation today :P

Antigone
23-09-11, 18:53
@ Antigone
Hahaha... eyewitness a ? :D... You and I can't be an eyewitness about the time of pelasgians... But we can see albanians today to make e parallel whith that what ancient writers wrote about these people, their language, culture, history...
+ Do you know that when an institutions like Britannica or scientist of the caliber make an conclusions, like those what I have cited, are based exactly in these primary or contemporary sources that were left from that time, and are present to today... therefore these are much more reliable than what YOU or your friend think, so if you are alergic from primary sources from culture, symbolism, words or language... than make a progress from institutions like Britannica or scientist of the caliber of they above.
Otherwise, reply every my sentence from the page 2,4,5 & 6, whith your primary sources ;).

Mmm, either you're really stupid and can't grasp a very simple definition of primary sources, or you don't understand English very well, or you are just winding everyone up? Which is it I wonder?

Besir Bajrami
23-09-11, 19:34
Of of off... I know that you are more likely to reply only in this level (in the absence of contra-arguments) and talk about what you render in mind... Ok I'm stupid, i dont now what primary source is, I dont now english... and now reply me whith your "pirmary sources:D" (counter-arguments) about every my sentence above from the page 2,4,5,6,7... in this topic ;)
(and do not catch whith a single word or letter, only to replicate something because you feel that it should)
By the way, you have great Illyrian name... and as always, you make it greek, because you'are based in colonization of that part of the land and not in autochthony!

Antigone
23-09-11, 20:37
Go back and read carefully what has been posted before replying, your replies are illogical. You do not make any sense.

Besir Bajrami (2)
23-09-11, 21:03
I'm trying to dispatch pseudo nationalists who are converted in the victim of south slavs and new greek propaganda, that at any cost contesting the autochthony of albanians, because they now, if this fact will be well known by all world opinion, they will have no reason to fracture even further the albanian wasted territory.
You can see my first post in this topic... I was trying to discuss the topic (for albanian folk similarities whith other old cultures of Europe or Mediterranean) and you can see some people like you, who try to divert the topic (as they always do), in a theory of some pseudo nationalists, even that all free scientists have said their word in this question, from the ancient writers, to today. And I dont want to stay like every other albanian around, and watch how some a bunch of racists, pseudo nationalists, and victims of their lies (or their father lies) try to humiliate everything that has to do whith albanians (all my answers are from books or proffesional studies from international free scientist and not dry words like you did).

So, if you want to proceed the discussion in this level, this requirement is still evident: ...you have to reply me whith your "pirmary sources:D" (counter-arguments) about every my sentence above from the page 2,4,5,6,7... in this topic ;)... than to be free to proceed whith the topic again.

- If you want better to understand the restriction of Albanian ethnicity from antiquity to today, simply focus only in the history of these last 100 years, which are well documented this time even in the archives of new greeks, south slavs, and turks. In these last 100 years, a large proportion of Albanians migrated in the direction of the center of their territory (today Albania) and the mountains of these parts... and a lot of others were migrated in Turkye, using Isamization, with an agreement with the south Slavs (today there are 5 mil. but Turkye does not recognize them as ethnicity), and a lot of them are assimilated, using Orthodoxy or Christianity, as in Greece and Serbia, Croatia or Bosnia, other migrate to Italy, and in other international states around the world... and Albania is the among the few countries in the world which have more of his people outside of their contry, and less in it.
Only in these 100 years, albanians migrated or retreated from their native settlements in Sandzak Bosnia... Nish (and around) in Serbia... Kumanovo, Stip, Veles, Skopje, Prilep, Prespë, Monastir, Resen, Ohrid in Macedonia... Arta, Preveza, Ioannina (Thesprotia or Chameria) in Greece...
For example in Greece, orthodox albanians were the worst "greeks" who commits genocide against other part of muslim albanians, who still maintain their Albanian ethnicity in Chameria.
The reason for this displacement (and assimilation of the other part), has one common denominator=Genocide + ethnic cleansing, assimilation, etc.
In the same way this was happened whith slavs in north, assmilated albanians in slavs, fought against albanians... this was happended whith turks also... this was happended whith romans, greeks... that's why we can find genetic similarities whith all these people around albanians (who have a surviving history).


P.S:
It doesnt matter if Albanians are Illyrians, Thracian (Dacians...), Etruscians or Pelasgians...
Even that Thracian and Illyrians can be the same people, even that Thracian, Illyrian, Etruscians... are directly connected whith Pelasgians and can be the same people... but undeniable fact is that albanian people are directly connected whith all these (or this) ancient culture(s) (DNA, language, symbolism, physic antropology, history, geography, and the culture at all, confirms that) this is matter... and now you can proceed to talk specifically about the topic, if you now something about albanian folk at all.

Antigone
23-09-11, 22:05
Ok, I'll say it again. There are NO PRIMARY SOURCES (ie FIRST HAND ACCOUNT) to prove your claim, that Albanians are Illyrians. All you have is guesswork, a theory, or an interpretation but NO FACT and all the books in the world, written by all the serious scholars in the world will never change that.

Good luck with your fantasy anyway.

Besir Bajrami (2)
23-09-11, 22:26
"and all the books in the world, written by all the serious scholars in the world will never change that"... These words clearly shows your anti-scientific approach and not the genuine belief in science, but only in what your machine of propaganda produces

You can read albanian ties whith illyrians in last pages, but nevermind, you'are not here to read. And i told you, it doesnt matter if illyrians are one source of our origin, or we are illyrians at all (this issue has to do with that how illyrians are perceived today, in a wider sense of the word, or in the tight sence of this concept... also, you are not able to tell me any illyrian word, part of their culture, their dna, or whatever, and where did these people disappeared, maybe aliens have taken them, and wich nation represent them better)... the importance lies elsewhere.

Anyway, we will ignore DNA, language, symbolism, physic antropology, history, geography, and the culture at all, that confirms the direct connection of albanians whith the ancient culture of this region... we will ignore ancient writers who wrote about these people, their language, culture, history (based in the primary sources of that time)... we will ignore institutions like Britannica or international scientist of that caliber what i present here, who make the same conclusions and are based exactly in these primary or contemporary sources that were left from that time, and are present to today by albanian people... we will ignore the whole existence of a nation, what is still left somewhere wasted (they dont deserve to present their existence through their culture, language, history, dna... because that baffle the ambitions/planes of the predatory neighbors, for total disappearance of this nation, because only the existence of these people whithout assimilated them, it's a problem about the historic glory of these invaders/neighbors)
And now, you have to reply me whith your "pirmary sources:D" (counter-arguments) about every my sentence above from the page 2,4,5,6,7... in this topic ;)... than to be free to proceed whith the topic again. Otherwise, what are you looking at this topic, when you dont know nothing about albanian folk and its similarity with other old Europian or Mediterranean culture, still left somewhere in the mountains isolated ?

zanipolo
24-09-11, 00:28
What I found and agreed with


The Albanian scholar Dr. Adrian Qosi who in the middle of Tirana openly opposed the hypothesis about the Illyrian origin of the Albanians. Via the printed media, also with other scholars , Fatos Lubonja, Prof. Adrian Vebiu and others."


Quote: About the Albanians, Wilkes writes "NOT MUCH RELIANCE SHOULD PERHAPS BE PLACED ON ATTEMPTS TO IDENTIFY AN ILLYRIAN ANTHROPOLOGICAL TYPE AS SHORT AND DARK SKINNED SIMMILAR TO MODERN ALBANIANS."
Wilkes was proven CORRECT by science when the Human Genome Project's Y-chromosome study of European populations, confirmed that the vast majority of contemporary Albanians do not share an Illyrian or any Indo-European lineage. Quote: That's the way it is with our culture, which is mythomaniac, national-communist, romantic, self-glorifying. You can't say anything objective without people getting angry. The Albanians are a people who still dream. That is what they are like in their conversations, their literature...In light of Hoxha and 'pyramid schemes, Albanians are a people who still dream. That's just the way they are..." Fatos Lubojia - Albanian historian Quote: Albanian scholar Dr. Adrian Qosi writes: I can say that today appear a group of new Albanian scholars who do not agree with the false myths (About Illyrian & Epirote descent) and courageously accept the scientific truth that they are not whatsoever connected to these ancient peoples. I am proud that I lead this group and that they took up from me the necessary scholarly courage."


Quote: Ardian Vebiu Famous Albanian historian writes:
My personal opinion is that the issue of Albanians descending or not from Illyrians doesn't deserve the interest it has traditionally aroused. There is absolutely NO Illyrian cultural legacy among Albanians today. In a certain sense, Illyrians (with their less fortunate fellows, the Pelasgians) are a pure creation of Albanian romanticism.

Besir Bajrami
24-09-11, 03:58
Hahaha... finally someone found something against, what any "scientist" can think. So, i have to oppose you with contra arguments against (even that i transmit until now evidences from these components: language, history, dna, geography, symbolism, dance, costumes... but no one tried to reply me about them. So, this theory came from a few Mediterranean elements in albanian race, culture, language... and they forget who Pelasgian were or Illyrians in a wider sense of the word. Illyrians are one source of albanians origin if you think that Illyrians are only these in today Balkans (that's why there is space to fill whith any other theory like these individs). But you have to read more in this direction, to learn thousands of outcomes like this (about the wider sense of the word Illyrians):
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184222_168285246552586_100001133356751_331737_4469 555_n.jpg

That's why almost every albanian city today speak a different tone of their language... Like Illyrian tribes, or Thracian, or Pelasgian... whatever... tribes, have some small differences between them, but were the same culture= Pelasgian culture, in the same way, today Dr. Robert Elsie (albanolog), has recorded in the field among albanians 137 dialects (or under dialects), and speak the same language.
This fact, or differences in so many underdialects among albanians, tell us that these people lived in a wider space far apart, but were from the same culture, because although the words are the same, only with different intonation and some different letters, and the same culture ... as Pelasgians were in general.
Also, when all these tribes of this old culture, continue to attract continuously from new invaders (like Britannica, or National Geographic says that all these tribes are collected in today's Albanians people), in the direction of their center (today Albania), in this time they started to call them self as sons of the eagle = Shqiptar (Shqyptar), because their central tribe Albanians, does not represent all of them.


Reading in this direction, I found these evidences from a different sources:
How Illyrian (Thracian, or Pelasgian tribes) moved arund the Meditterean, specifically from Asia Minor to Balkans, drawn from the invasions of greeks, indo-europians or whoever.
__
* Dardanians in Asia Minor, Dardanians as Illyrian tribe in central Balkans (today Kosovars);
__
* Parthini in Middle east... Parthini in central Albania, near the next illyrian tribe Albani... And Parth (Bardh) means White, and Alb means White!;
__
* Lydia, Lybia, Luwia, Likia, Lycaonia (Lukka or Luqqa... in albanian Luq/lloq/ç... means something wet, backwater...) - in Asia Minor... Lyncests in Illyria, or near the lake of Ohrid (was called Lychni) between Albania and Macedonia... the Lake, in albanian is Liqen.
__
Chimaera... also:
1. Asia minor
http://www.olymposlodge.info/uploads/pics/01_chimera_335x199_01.jpg
< >
2. Albaniahttp://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146248&l=1e1e2fd964&id=100001133356751https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/47857_129994250381686_100001133356751_146248_10132 14_n.jpg
(Also in this old map we have the name of the Mount "Temira". In albanian "Te miret" - "the good ones" in Mythology the goods (the bests) are the gods... so this is Mount of Gods, or like today has changed in Mount Tomorr... but this is another subject)

- http://www.olymposlodge.info/index.php?id=16&L=1
- The story of Chimaera is already mentioned in the Iliad (Il. 6. 176-182... http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hom.+Il.+6.176&fromdoc=Perseus%253Atext%253A1999.01.0133 ) where it is the name of a monster that should be killed by Bellerophon, a Corinthian hero sent to Lycia by King Proitos in order to be killed by the Lycian king, Iobates... A Note on Pseudohistories: Plutarch Facing Chimaera:http://hestieia.wordpress.com/a-note-on-pseudohistories-plutarch-facing-chimaera/ ...
astrological way: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66175&l=1c4fac0c23&id=100001133356751...
- Also in our territory (under 2), Chimera is located where it is today Himara, or mountains of Himara
http://i43.tinypic.com/117edmp.png... and "L'Albania: Notizie Geografiche, Ethnografiche e Storiche - Arturo Galanti (1901)"
http://i42.tinypic.com/96ynt4.png (http://i42.tinypic.com/96ynt4.png)... and the name Mal http://i40.tinypic.com/5xoebs.jpg

-Also a similarity in between lykians of Asia Minor, and lynchians, around Ohrid, we have also in the construction of tumules (characteristic of Illyrian graves)

__
* Japodes in north Illyria, Japyges in south-west Illyria or today Italya (Japie/Japej - People who make crown in albanian)
__
* Phryges (frigjet) in Asia minor (or south-east Illyria), Bryges in central Illyria also (or today Albania) Bryge (Brigje) in albanian - coastlines in english.
__
* Galabriens in central Illyria, Calabriens in west south-west Illyria, or today Italy
__
* Mezapes in central Illyria (today Greece), Mesaper in south west Illyria, or today Italy (Mes in albanian, middle in english)
__
* Mesie in central Illyria, Mysie in Asia minor, or south-east Illyria and Mesie in east Illyria (Thrace) - (Mes in albanian, middle in english)
__
* Chaones in centar Illyria, Chones in south-west Illyria, today Italy
__
* Elymie in central Illyria, Elymes in south-west Illyria, today Italy
__
* Mesaphen in central Illyria, Messaphe in south-west Illyria, today Italy
__
* Taulanti: Thucydides notes this tribe in his history of the Peloponnesian War as allies of Athens. (Taulant-Dry land in albanian)
__
* Etrsuscans (from Troy, Toscany, Tyrhennia...), also came from Illyria and founder the Italy
- Etruscan language, that language actually a form of Pelasgian, like the language written on the Lemnos Tablets of the aegean, the language of Homer: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=191083824272728&set=a.110082529039525.4389.100001133356751&type=1

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=168234583224319&set=a.139407142773730.23767.100001133356751&type=1
Also, see this map: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/46886_128442420536869_100001133356751_139504_40892 43_n.jpg



Otherwise, I know all these three persons... they are journalists and want to be in the center of the mediatic attention, with any new absurd idea. They were in jail from the communists, and want to revenge about every thing what it can be connected whith communism in Albania, and they have heard (from slavic and greek propaganda) that illyrian, pelasgian or whatever theory of albanian origin, is announced by communism, and they tried to opposed these theory, but they forgot that these theory were supported many centuries before communism, even in times when the Albanians have not had at all institutions (not enter more deeply to the ancient writers). Also, they can't support whith eny evidence what they are talking about... and no one is taking seriously what they are talking. In this level of conversations you can find whith thousands, here between albanians... you have ideas that albanians are Chinese, why you don't take any of them here :P

I am amazed how you managed to enter so deep to find any of these ideas of any individual whith no scientific weight, and close your eyes before ranking scientist of the level of Isaac Newton and institutions like Britannica !

I told you that albanians does not care about who they are... you care ! - That's why you can find all sorts of ideas... but if you want to learn something, you have to start learning whith your own initiative, to know these people, their culture, language... and then you can say something in this direction.
By the way, italian director Gianni Amelio said: I have not met until today any Albanian who love their country! - So, you dont have to be surprised when your ideas can be found among them ;) - Because the common denominator of you, is hatred of this nation in every sence.

Besir Bajrami
24-09-11, 06:04
When we are to Lykia, Lycaonia (Lukka or Luqqa)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262483_137137959708165_100002358844776_231043_4465 457_n.jpg
... in Asia minor, nearby Troy and its glorious legendary homeric wars. Troy of the dardanian king Priam
(all the names of the protagonists of the Trojan War, were imagined by Homer, according to the role they played in that event: In this case: Priam="pri/j" in albanian means "lead" am/jam, means "Am"=the leader, I'm the leader... Troy in albanian means "land"... "Ilion" in albanian means "our star"... etc.),
who was married to a pelasgian woman and as a result Pari (in albanins means "the first") with Hector (in albanians means "iron man") were Dardano-Pelasgians
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281613_137139369708024_100002358844776_231046_1353 851_n.jpg

In this area we have a diverse archaeological territory, as Selca monumental graves and a lot of inscriptions documents that were written with different alphabets as the Kerian or Lydian:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/249208_137140503041244_100002358844776_231052_3918 676_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281283_137140923041202_100002358844776_231055_2928 048_n.jpg

... but here will stand in the language of the inscriptions on the most widespread in Asia Minor, to language writen whith the Lykian alphabet.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/226188_137142969707664_100002358844776_231076_2816 120_n.jpg

Now we will go in deciphering the bilingual inscriptions of Lyco-Greek, based from
IAKOVOS THOMOPULOS
PELLASGICA
Athens, 1912
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281323_137144306374197_100002358844776_231088_3989 348_n.jpg


This inscription from the limerit lycians written in above, also translated into Greek, DOWN = Lykian, or the old(original) language and than is translated in the later Greek language.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/262498_137145946374033_100002358844776_231101_4680 839_n.jpg

Greek translation is:
TODHE E PIJSATO TO MNIMA SIDARIOOS IOS PARMENONDAS EAFTOI QE GJINEKI QE IOS PUVIALI=PERMENDOREN E E BERI SIDHARIOS DJALI PARMENONDAS, VETES SE VETE, GRUAS EDHE DJALIT PUVIALI


In original is:
E BEIJA E RAVAZIJA ME TE PRINA FATE, SIDHERIJA PARMENARIS TIDHEMI HRPPE ETLI E VE DHE LADHE E VE DHE TIDHEMI PUVILEJE

As we see, the greek translation is semantic and not word for word.

"tidhemi"="cilimi"="his child". This was the name for the child in Lycian original language. In albanian today is "kalama", also "caull";
"ladhe"="women/wife". This was the name for the wife... in albanian: "La dhe"... she leave the land;
"hrppe, her per"= "herë", in albanian "times"; "për" in albanian "for";
"eravazija"= in albanian "rava zija", or "ra zija"- "fell the mourn";
"etli e ve" and "ladhe e ve" = "Et/at-li" in albanian, means "father", "e ve/t" in albanian means "his"... and "ladhe" (it is explained above), means wife/women... "His father and his wife";

All in albanian:
E BEJA VARRIN PER TE NA PRIRE FATE. SIDHERIJA DJALI I PARMENDARIT PER BABEN E VETE EDHE GRUAN E VETE DHE DJALIN PUVELIJE

All in english:
I dit the grave to led us fate. Sidheria (i stand like a land) the son of Parmendar for his father and his wife and his son Puvelije

Mostly inscriptions on the graves have more or less a similar structure and starting with:"E BEJA", "E BEJ", "E BENE" (all in albanian) I did, I made it, they did... and the word "varr"-"grave" replaced by the words "QENDRES"-"DATA" = "stay"-"Memorial"-"Date", and next are showing the grave makers.


* The same structure has also the next inscription, which I will transmit here partly, only for the fantastic ORIGINAL Pelasgian rhyme.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/205983_137152403040054_100002358844776_231139_1839 0_n.jpg

... and here, also we have only general translation in greek, and not word by word.
Translation speaks about the LITON = Moon, which in antiquity in this region, regarded as the guardians of graves.

Translator of the original Greek inscription tells us that if someone will buy or ruin the grave "Lito will revenge"... besides the original never says such a thing word for word. It appears that those who later translated into Greek they did not deal with the whole the translation. The original is rich and World Masterpiece with rhyme (of the rare of this style). This is the original:
KJASTU ENI KLAHI E BEJE HI
SE VENDRI VENDE ZI
Albanian =

QASU HENE QAJE E BEJE HI
DHE VENDI,VENDE I ZI

English:
interfere(harass or access) Moon, cry it and make it ash
and the land, the land make it black


Well, pelasgian lament, with high artistic sense is described in this stone or tomb in pelasgian Lycia.


I have a lot of this kind of inscriptions from around all Mediterranean (Asia Minor, Greece, Italy, Balkans...) , which all are pure albanian even today, and our institutions don't care about that... anyway, we have to discuss here about something else, and don't make me to start again talking about origin, or to make me present other facts to convince you to think twice when you want to copy-paste something from wikipedia about this issue, even that people like you, don't care what i transmit, they dont even read :S


Can we proceed now to speak about (the topic) folk similarities between albanians and other old cultures what are still left somewhere in Europe & Mediterranean ?

zanipolo
24-09-11, 08:46
Thttp://i40.tinypic.com/5xoebs.jpg

-.

HAHHA

This says the mountain ranges of the albanians who where mountain people came from a place called Pinto near Mt.Olympus and the name of their area was called maliesi. they spoke an ancient macedonian dialect and it became the albanian language.
They moved to Thessaly ( tessaglia) to a city called mallea near the malea mounts.

zanipolo
24-09-11, 08:54
Hahaha... finally someone found something against, what any "scientist" can think. So, i have to oppose you with contra arguments against (even that i transmit until now evidences from these components: language, history, dna, geography, symbolism, dance, costumes... but no one tried to reply me about them. So, this theory came from a few Mediterranean elements in albanian race, culture, language... and they forget who Pelasgian were or Illyrians in a wider sense of the word. Illyrians are one source of albanians origin if you think that Illyrians are only these in today Balkans (that's why there is space to fill whith any other theory like these individs). But you have to read more in this direction, to learn thousands of outcomes like this (about the wider sense of the word Illyrians):
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184222_168285246552586_100001133356751_331737_4469 555_n.jpg

That's why almost every albanian city today speak a different tone of their language... Like Illyrian tribes, or Thracian, or Pelasgian... whatever... tribes, have some small differences between them, but were the same culture= Pelasgian culture, in the same way, today Dr. Robert Elsie (albanolog), has recorded in the field among albanians 137 dialects (or under dialects), and speak the same language.
This fact, or differences in so many underdialects among albanians, tell us that these people lived in a wider space far apart, but were from the same culture, because although the words are the same, only with different intonation and some different letters, and the same culture ... as Pelasgians were in general.
Also, when all these tribes of this old culture, continue to attract continuously from new invaders (like Britannica, or National Geographic says that all these tribes are collected in today's Albanians people), in the direction of their center (today Albania), in this time they started to call them self as sons of the eagle = Shqiptar (Shqyptar), because their central tribe Albanians, does not represent all of them.


Reading in this direction, I found these evidences from a different sources:
How Illyrian (Thracian, or Pelasgian tribes) moved arund the Meditterean, specifically from Asia Minor to Balkans, drawn from the invasions of greeks, indo-europians or whoever.
__
* Dardanians in Asia Minor, Dardanians as Illyrian tribe in central Balkans (today Kosovars);
__
* Parthini in Middle east... Parthini in central Albania, near the next illyrian tribe Albani... And Parth (Bardh) means White, and Alb means White!;
__
* Lydia, Lybia, Luwia, Likia, Lycaonia (Lukka or Luqqa... in albanian Luq/lloq/ç... means something wet, backwater...) - in Asia Minor... Lyncests in Illyria, or near the lake of Ohrid (was called Lychni) between Albania and Macedonia... the Lake, in albanian is Liqen.
__
Chimaera... also:
1. Asia minor
http://www.olymposlodge.info/uploads/pics/01_chimera_335x199_01.jpg
< >
2. Albaniahttp://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146248&l=1e1e2fd964&id=100001133356751https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/47857_129994250381686_100001133356751_146248_10132 14_n.jpg
(Also in this old map we have the name of the Mount "Temira". In albanian "Te miret" - "the good ones" in Mythology the goods (the bests) are the gods... so this is Mount of Gods, or like today has changed in Mount Tomorr... but this is another subject)

- http://www.olymposlodge.info/index.php?id=16&L=1
- The story of Chimaera is already mentioned in the Iliad (Il. 6. 176-182... http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hom.+Il.+6.176&fromdoc=Perseus%253Atext%253A1999.01.0133 ) where it is the name of a monster that should be killed by Bellerophon, a Corinthian hero sent to Lycia by King Proitos in order to be killed by the Lycian king, Iobates... A Note on Pseudohistories: Plutarch Facing Chimaera:http://hestieia.wordpress.com/a-note-on-pseudohistories-plutarch-facing-chimaera/ ...
astrological way: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66175&l=1c4fac0c23&id=100001133356751...
- Also in our territory (under 2), Chimera is located where it is today Himara, or mountains of Himara
http://i43.tinypic.com/117edmp.png... and "L'Albania: Notizie Geografiche, Ethnografiche e Storiche - Arturo Galanti (1901)"
http://i42.tinypic.com/96ynt4.png (http://i42.tinypic.com/96ynt4.png)... and the name Mal http://i40.tinypic.com/5xoebs.jpg

-Also a similarity in between lykians of Asia Minor, and lynchians, around Ohrid, we have also in the construction of tumules (characteristic of Illyrian graves)

__
* Japodes in north Illyria, Japyges in south-west Illyria or today Italya (Japie/Japej - People who make crown in albanian)
__
* Phryges (frigjet) in Asia minor (or south-east Illyria), Bryges in central Illyria also (or today Albania) Bryge (Brigje) in albanian - coastlines in english.
__
* Galabriens in central Illyria, Calabriens in west south-west Illyria, or today Italy
__
* Mezapes in central Illyria (today Greece), Mesaper in south west Illyria, or today Italy (Mes in albanian, middle in english)
__
* Mesie in central Illyria, Mysie in Asia minor, or south-east Illyria and Mesie in east Illyria (Thrace) - (Mes in albanian, middle in english)
__
* Chaones in centar Illyria, Chones in south-west Illyria, today Italy
__
* Elymie in central Illyria, Elymes in south-west Illyria, today Italy
__
* Mesaphen in central Illyria, Messaphe in south-west Illyria, today Italy
__
* Taulanti: Thucydides notes this tribe in his history of the Peloponnesian War as allies of Athens. (Taulant-Dry land in albanian)
__
* Etrsuscans (from Troy, Toscany, Tyrhennia...), also came from Illyria and founder the Italy
- Etruscan language, that language actually a form of Pelasgian, like the language written on the Lemnos Tablets of the aegean, the language of Homer: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=191083824272728&set=a.110082529039525.4389.100001133356751&type=1

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=168234583224319&set=a.139407142773730.23767.100001133356751&type=1
Also, see this map: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/46886_128442420536869_100001133356751_139504_40892 43_n.jpg



Otherwise, I know all these three persons... they are journalists and want to be in the center of the mediatic attention, with any new absurd idea. They were in jail from the communists, and want to revenge about every thing what it can be connected whith communism in Albania, and they have heard (from slavic and greek propaganda) that illyrian, pelasgian or whatever theory of albanian origin, is announced by communism, and they tried to opposed these theory, but they forgot that these theory were supported many centuries before communism, even in times when the Albanians have not had at all institutions (not enter more deeply to the ancient writers). Also, they can't support whith eny evidence what they are talking about... and no one is taking seriously what they are talking. In this level of conversations you can find whith thousands, here between albanians... you have ideas that albanians are Chinese, why you don't take any of them here :P

I am amazed how you managed to enter so deep to find any of these ideas of any individual whith no scientific weight, and close your eyes before ranking scientist of the level of Isaac Newton and institutions like Britannica !

I told you that albanians does not care about who they are... you care ! - That's why you can find all sorts of ideas... but if you want to learn something, you have to start learning whith your own initiative, to know these people, their culture, language... and then you can say something in this direction.
By the way, italian director Gianni Amelio said: I have not met until today any Albanian who love their country! - So, you dont have to be surprised when your ideas can be found among them ;) - Because the common denominator of you, is hatred of this nation in every sence.


hahah .....every nation lies , go and discover the truth for yourself and stop placing nationalistic rubbish ( propaganda) to justify a dream. go and read as many non-albanian books as you can.

i learn italian history by avoiding italian books. ......as I said every nation lies about their history

zanipolo
24-09-11, 08:58
When we are to Lykia, Lycaonia (Lukka or Luqqa)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262483_137137959708165_100002358844776_231043_4465 457_n.jpg
... in Asia minor, nearby Troy and its glorious legendary homeric wars. Troy of the dardanian king Priam
(all the names of the protagonists of the Trojan War, were imagined by Homer, according to the role they played in that event: In this case: Priam="pri/j" in albanian means "lead" am/jam, means "Am"=the leader, I'm the leader... Troy in albanian means "land"... "Ilion" in albanian means "our star"... etc.),
who was married to a pelasgian woman and as a result Pari (in albanins means "the first") with Hector (in albanians means "iron man") were Dardano-Pelasgians
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281613_137139369708024_100002358844776_231046_1353 851_n.jpg

In this area we have a diverse archaeological territory, as Selca monumental graves and a lot of inscriptions documents that were written with different alphabets as the Kerian or Lydian:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/249208_137140503041244_100002358844776_231052_3918 676_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281283_137140923041202_100002358844776_231055_2928 048_n.jpg

... but here will stand in the language of the inscriptions on the most widespread in Asia Minor, to language writen whith the Lykian alphabet.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/226188_137142969707664_100002358844776_231076_2816 120_n.jpg

Now we will go in deciphering the bilingual inscriptions of Lyco-Greek, based from
IAKOVOS THOMOPULOS
PELLASGICA
Athens, 1912
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281323_137144306374197_100002358844776_231088_3989 348_n.jpg


This inscription from the limerit lycians written in above, also translated into Greek, DOWN = Lykian, or the old(original) language and than is translated in the later Greek language.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/262498_137145946374033_100002358844776_231101_4680 839_n.jpg

Greek translation is:
TODHE E PIJSATO TO MNIMA SIDARIOOS IOS PARMENONDAS EAFTOI QE GJINEKI QE IOS PUVIALI=PERMENDOREN E E BERI SIDHARIOS DJALI PARMENONDAS, VETES SE VETE, GRUAS EDHE DJALIT PUVIALI


In original is:
E BEIJA E RAVAZIJA ME TE PRINA FATE, SIDHERIJA PARMENARIS TIDHEMI HRPPE ETLI E VE DHE LADHE E VE DHE TIDHEMI PUVILEJE

As we see, the greek translation is semantic and not word for word.

"tidhemi"="cilimi"="his child". This was the name for the child in Lycian original language. In albanian today is "kalama", also "caull";
"ladhe"="women/wife". This was the name for the wife... in albanian: "La dhe"... she leave the land;
"hrppe, her per"= "herë", in albanian "times"; "për" in albanian "for";
"eravazija"= in albanian "rava zija", or "ra zija"- "fell the mourn";
"etli e ve" and "ladhe e ve" = "Et/at-li" in albanian, means "father", "e ve/t" in albanian means "his"... and "ladhe" (it is explained above), means wife/women... "His father and his wife";

All in albanian:
E BEJA VARRIN PER TE NA PRIRE FATE. SIDHERIJA DJALI I PARMENDARIT PER BABEN E VETE EDHE GRUAN E VETE DHE DJALIN PUVELIJE

All in english:
I dit the grave to led us fate. Sidheria (i stand like a land) the son of Parmendar for his father and his wife and his son Puvelije

Mostly inscriptions on the graves have more or less a similar structure and starting with:"E BEJA", "E BEJ", "E BENE" (all in albanian) I did, I made it, they did... and the word "varr"-"grave" replaced by the words "QENDRES"-"DATA" = "stay"-"Memorial"-"Date", and next are showing the grave makers.


* The same structure has also the next inscription, which I will transmit here partly, only for the fantastic ORIGINAL Pelasgian rhyme.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/205983_137152403040054_100002358844776_231139_1839 0_n.jpg

... and here, also we have only general translation in greek, and not word by word.
Translation speaks about the LITON = Moon, which in antiquity in this region, regarded as the guardians of graves.

Translator of the original Greek inscription tells us that if someone will buy or ruin the grave "Lito will revenge"... besides the original never says such a thing word for word. It appears that those who later translated into Greek they did not deal with the whole the translation. The original is rich and World Masterpiece with rhyme (of the rare of this style). This is the original:
KJASTU ENI KLAHI E BEJE HI
SE VENDRI VENDE ZI
Albanian =

QASU HENE QAJE E BEJE HI
DHE VENDI,VENDE I ZI

English:
interfere(harass or access) Moon, cry it and make it ash
and the land, the land make it black


Well, pelasgian lament, with high artistic sense is described in this stone or tomb in pelasgian Lycia.


I have a lot of this kind of inscriptions from around all Mediterranean (Asia Minor, Greece, Italy, Balkans...) , which all are pure albanian even today, and our institutions don't care about that... anyway, we have to discuss here about something else, and don't make me to start again talking about origin, or to make me present other facts to convince you to think twice when you want to copy-paste something from wikipedia about this issue, even that people like you, don't care what i transmit, they dont even read :S


Can we proceed now to speak about (the topic) folk similarities between albanians and other old cultures what are still left somewhere in Europe & Mediterranean ?

I know about the dardanians of Anatolia ( aeneas was a dardanian ) who moved to the balkans...............what are you saying that albanians are now Dardanians ?

Besir Bajrami
24-09-11, 17:43
I wonder does anyone here know the rules how to communicate scientifically ?!
Everyone who post here, is telling something (in his own) like to speak in MSN, and nobody is not able to quote my sentences and to give me his contra argument if he is not agreed whith that, exaclty about that piece of information what he quote (or if he's not agree with the whole point, than he should quote every my sentence and to give here materials contra for that information), and to proceed in the next sentence... only in this way you can defend your theory, if you have any at all.

@ zanipolo
You've done grat job whith the translation :) - Every nation lie about theirself, my nation don't even had the opportunity to develop institutions and to make any propaganda like others did... adding here and the attribute of nihilism, or selflessness what albanians had in their blood (culture)... I told you, albanians don't care who they are at all... their primary task was to survive (by changing religion, nationality...) and now is to make money, just to alleviate this permanent poverty.
So, that's why I'm posting here hounderts of studies by international scientist, who don't have the reason to be nationalistic. I enjoy to post here studies even from slavic and greek scientist, who historicaly were fighting albanians... ! (Slavs fought albanians to take their tetrritory, just to have access to the sea, but greeks want to eradicate all albanians, because the existing of Shqiptar, or the Albanian identity, is the primary risk for the historic glory, what greeks want to monopolize).
By the way, you simple dont understand that the region what is now inhabited by Albanians, is inhabited by the same people since prehistory, although neighbors claim territories based on invasions. Dardanians are the heart of albanian identity (of course they can't be slavs, or greeks)... they are todays Kosovars, or the link between thracian and illyrian culture (if they if they were not as one)... this is shown and in the language, culture, facial color... of todays albanians in Kosovo.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/59010_129386647109113_100001133356751_144005_32371 60_n.jpg
+ I was not tried to ask more data for this part, because it already widely known, even by slavs itself, for example:
Robert Bideleux is Senior Lecturer in Politics and Director of the Centre of Russian and East European Studies at the University of Wales, Swansea. He is the co-author of A History of Eastern Europe (Routledge, 1998):
Kosovo Albanians (Kosovars) are descended from the ancient Dardanians (Illyrians) who inhabited the western Balkans long before Slavs arrived in the sixth to eighth centuries AD.
http://www.albaniacountry.info/the-dardanians-a-quest-into-prehistory
+ Everyone here have to understand that in the culture of albanians, does not exist propaganda, and they dont even ACT (operate, take actions...) to take something what was their... they always REACT, to deffent what is still left. And for them, there are not close nations (sister nations, mother nations, or any of these) or foreign nations... for albanians genetically all are the same... that's why Wadham Peacock wrote the book - Albania, the foundling state of Europe

As always, I want to reinforce my thoughts, by studies from international scientists:
Dr. Alexander Lambert: Europe sabotage albanian history in the nineteenth century, when Illyria was called the Balkans

Europe should be proud to have in her bosom the Albanian nation, which should be evaluated as more tolerant ... there is no case that the Albanians in any moment of history they are no recognized as a nation that has attacked other nations and they never did not take part in the massacres. It is known that the Albanians have to shame to kill an enemy who surrenders... and that many Albanians have excellent running if the empire, whether other countries. Likewise, in his other Albanians have left their name in different fields of sciences in various countries of the world ...



"European civilization scandal !"

"If we return to the pre-history, before the Homeric bard to sing deities and mythological heroes, before writing of the Greek language, lived a people known as Pelasgians ...
... Albanians are the only ones who have come so far from this powerful breed of prehistory. Only recently been determined that the Pelasgians were the ancient Illyrians ... These Illyrians spent in Italy named Tosca, as they are called still in Albania, while in Italy have remained as Tosca, Tuscany, Etruscan ...
... Albanian language has been true language of Homer (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66164&l=62b6e46d8b&id=100001133356751), the Greeks have borrowed from the Troubadour Pelasgians epos their outstanding ...
... Albanian (Shqip or "Eagle language") has been the native language of Alexander the great conquests and of Pyrrhus of Epirus, one of the greatest generals of history, which happened to be the ultimate challenge of all invading Roman legions.
... It is beyond any imagination tragedy that this great race and very ancient, laid in this condition, which deserves to be called European civilization scandal. It is not surprising that the Ottoman conqueror prohibit any kind of digging on Albanian soil, which may remind people of its former glory ...
... What a great thresure of knowledge is waiting for archaeologist when the earth of Albanians will open the treasures of the history of the Pelasgians!"

George Fred Williams - The Albanians
(1914)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=149051&l=1c4c6738d3&id=100001133356751

- Further he writes: "crass stone buildings, opposite the Parthenon, the Acropolis of Athens even today they are called Pelasgian ! ...These ancient inhabitants, known as "Divine Pelasgians" also built the great wall of primitive "Cyklopian" - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148824&l=3bd2c70603&id=100001133356751 (even those of Phenixit in Delvina, or those of Ulcinj) ... that as the prof Pokoki, said: they were raised long before the Greeks "to come to life" (as already known from ancient writers that the Pelasgians were the native people before the Hellenic!) - Also known that with the technology of stone "Cyklop" the pyramids of Egypt were constructed...

For more in this direction, see "Pelasgian Masonry":
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=189224&l=195155e482&id=100001133356751
... Studies of the second half of the twentieth century, prove that the albanian is the oldest Indo-European language. Albanian language other than Greek and Armenian language in the script of her sanskrit uses the Latin alphabet, pronounced as it is written. If you enter the ancient history, we can find that Alexander the Great, son of Olympia, Epirotic - Illyrian and albanian (illyrian) had as their mother tongue. Aristotle taught him Greek. Very widespread in today's world the phrase "A pyrrhic victory." And this expression is reminiscent of the famous victory when Pyrrhus was defeated in Askulum Romans in 279 BC. Pirro Plutarku assessed as the greatest strategist of antiquity. It was the Romans who lost their battle in history as the battle that characterizes the beginning of their attachment, whereas Pirro Epirotes and the battle was marked as their point of decadence. World Pirro considered as Greek, although he taught Greek at the age of 12-year-old in Alexandria, where his royal education continued ...
__________________________________________________ ___
... Among the most famous emperors let us mention Constantine the Great, who was born in Kosovo (Dardania). Constantine the Great was he who had put firmly on the side of the Christian church with Ediktin of Milan of 313, which Christians were guaranteed a tolerance that was equal to the recognition of Christianity as state religion. The rule of Constantine the I-st excelled in building Christian monuments, of which I will mention the Vatican. Even the Emperor Justinian I was an Illyrian. He left as a legacy of his work glorious legislative JUSTIANIT CODE THAT HAS left today FOUNDATION OF MODERN CIVIL RIGHTS.
Translator of the Bible in Latin was the Illyrian St. Hieronim. Christian hymn composer and "Laudamus ..." to use even today is the work of composer Nike Dardania, Illyrian from Kosovo. Must acknowledge that the Illyrians in Europe have been one of the first people who accepted Christianity, this is confirmed by the Bible. When St. Paul went on to Illyria to distribute christianity he found a Christian church in Durres...
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tirana-Albania/Perandoret-ilir/385086009144
__________________________________________________ ___
... In the Middle Ages the Albanians have given the world leaders, secular or religious leaders and cultural personalities who cross the borders of Europe. SOME POPE HAVE BEEN whith Albanian origin ...
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69714&l=6d45fc478a&id=100001133356751
... for example - Clement XI's the most righteous of them. But the Albanians have been on top of important world religions, both at the top of orthodox religion, as well as a Muslim. In history we find prominent Albanian leaders in many European countries, even among those who sometimes have determined the fate of many historic battles (in 1515 that Mercury Bua whith the light chivalry of Venice, consisting of all the Albanians set victory Marinjanit battle, the story made him battle of giants and not Francis I of France, 19, two days they learned how fought battle). Albanians have given more prominent prime ministers and generals Ottoman Empire (Qyprili family only gave 5 prime Empire). Albanians have given many heroes of Greek independence, of which I will mention Kundurjotis, Marco Bocari, Kanaris, Kolokotroni, Karaiskaqis, Bubulina. Who were in leadership of the Greek revolution, of which several prime ministers of the newly independent state of Greece. Romania also had a family of Albanian origin princore (Alexander and Vladimir and Princess Eleonora Gjika known as Dora Distr). Francesco Crispin, friend of Garibaldi, the Macinit Kavouri has been a BIG KRYEMINISTË of Italy, was of Albanian origin. Painters like Carpacci, Albany, etc.., Humanitarian Leonic Tome, professor of Copernicus and many Albanian personalities, were honored by the history of Italy. Muhammad Ali of Egypt Modern reformer that French history has called "Napoleon of the Middle East" that Albanian establishing royal dynasty of Egypt who reigned about 150 years. TAJMAHAL architect in Agra, India, masterpieces of Islamic architecture was the work of an Albanian ...
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=189224&l=195155e482&id=100001133356751
... Like the "Blue Mosque" of many important mosques of Istanbul. And finally the Albanian National Hero, Scanderbeg, an almost universal example of freedom fighter, distinguished in the whole world with memorials not only in Tirana, Pristina and Skopje, but also in Rome, Brussels, Geneva, Detroit, Buenos Aires. Other memorials to Scanderbeg are designed to rise in London, Warsaw, Melbourne, Manila etc..
When the Albanians have contributed so much to the civilization of mankind, why few people in the world are aware of this, rather more as did not want to accept this reality?
It must be said that such a thing is explained by the relative isolation of the Albanians not without purpose by the international community, and in particular from Europe, from Berlin Congress onwards (1878). In fact after defeating the Turks in the Russo-Turkish war, the international press began work to ignore the name change Albanians by former Illyrian peninsula inhabited since prehistoric times and until today the Illyrians - Albanians. He was baptized with a new name that even today, the Balkan Peninsula, just getting started from this series of Balkan Mountains. Why was attacked Albanians? Much of European diplomacy has used conservative pejorativ term "Turkish" to describe the Turks as Muslim communities in the Balkans, even though most of them are not Turkish. Europe has supported and has enlarged the lands of Greece, Serbia and Montenegro, at the expense of the Albanians. None of the major European powers did not support this cause, when Albanians created the League of Prizren to defend their case right against decisions of the Congress of Berlin. They were left in the lurch by all ...

... Of course paying dearly this independence, the Albanians with half of the territories populated by Albanians world diplomacy donated Serbs, Greeks and the Montenegrins. And since this time the world began to use the term "Greater Albania" by Albanian misrepresented and discourage any desire to form their legally Albanian nation state. Here's that historical injustice against the Albanians and that really made a debacle in the Balkans, calling the latter "powder magazine" ...
More about the language:

"If you want to discover the history from BC and the sciences of that time, you should study Albanian language" - Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - Albanolog, mathematicians, german philosopher. It's good to know that this scientific conclusion is made by the colossus of mankind to the rank of Isaac Newton!

Broadening as much in antiquity, the more peoples and nations emerge united with each other, originating from a common extract... In this point, albanians have preserved their language, culture and their ancient race, intact (retreated to mountains, from permanent invasions) from the winds of alienation what happened with all nations... So, when you'll study the albanian question in all its components (like many free scholars, linguist, historian, archaeologist, anthropologist, artist... did, and I mention some of them), you'll encounter elements of the most ancient language, culture, race... that have existed in the world and what is more important, is still alive today {Considering that the oldest world civilization has moved all around the Mediterranean and today with the help of scientists we find traces of albanian language, culture and race, from Egypt, Middle East, Caucasus, Illyrian (Balkan) and Apenin Peninsula... and know you can sync the input of the Mediterranean culture in World culture and finaly you can understand my approach}.

Many names have been made with Albanian roots "An" (an-ë/a)-meaning "Side";
Then the "Ar" [Aryan; Ark (of Noah )-meaning Sun and Gold, Ark...]
Max Myle (mytholog):"The names of many famous people of the old stem from the Albanian word "AR" and "AN", it applies also to the name of enough countries."
Then we have many, many other roots of our language that are used by many more groups to shape the language question, example:
[At, Al, Am (s), As (h), Ar, An (s)] ...
A (is), Ab, Ac, Ad, Af, Ag, Ah, Ai, Aj, Ak, Al, All, Am, An, Anj, Ap, Aq, Ar, Arr, As, Ash, At, Ath, Au, Av, Axh, Az, Azh…; Ba, Be, Bë, Bi, Bo, Bu, By, Bj, Bl, Bll, Bn, Br, Bz… [Ba-b,c,g,h,j,k,l,ll,m,n,p,q,r,s,t,v,z,zh,r… B(p,d)ardh(th)… Bi/r,m,sh… Bie, Bo-r,n,t,ll,sh… Be-s,l… Bë-r,n,m… Bu-t,k,r,z…];
Ca, Ce, Cë, Ci, Co, Cu, Cy, Cj, Cr,…; Ça, Çe, Çë, Çi, Ço, Çu, Çy, Çf, Çj, Çl, Çm, Çn, Çr…;
Da, De, Dë, Di, Do, Du, Dy, Dj, Dr, Dl… [Do(a)n, D(e)a-m,sh,r,le,ve… Di-a,e,o,t… Dj(e)a-l,ll,p… Dr-a,e,i,o,u,y…)];
Dha, Dhe, Dhë, Dhi, Dho, Dhu, Dhj…;
Eb, Ec Ed, Ef, Eg, Ej, Ek, El, Ell, Em, En, Ep, Er, Et, Ev, Ex, Exh, Ez, Ezh;
Fa, Fe, Fë, Fi, Fo, Fu, Fy, Fj, Fl, Fll, Fr, Fsh, Ft…;
Ga, Ge, Gë, Gi, Go, Gu, Gy, Gdh, Gj, Gl, Gr…;
Gja, Gje, Gjë, Gji, Gjo, Gju, Gjy; [G(j)a-n,m,ll,t… Gje-n,th,l,r…];
Ha, He, Hë, Hi, Ho, Hu, Hy, Hj, Hr…; [Ha(ë)n(a), Hi-y,e…);
Ib, Ic, Iç, Id, Idh, If, Ig, Ij, Ik, Il, Ill, Im, In, Inj, Ip, Ir, Irr, Is, Ish, It, Ith, Iu, Iv, Iz… [Ill(yll)];
Ja, Je, Jë, Ji, Jo, Ju… [ jap, jep, jon…];
Ka, Ke, Kë, Ki, Ko, Ku, Ky, Kj, Kl, Kll, Kr, Krr, Ks, Ksh, Kt, Kth… [kam,kap,kal,kat, kem, kep, ker, kra,kre,kri,kro,kry,kumt…];
La, Le, Lë, Li, Lo, Lu, Ly… [la-n,m,r,k ,j,sh,t, le-x,m,sh,ht, lo-j,t,xh,lu-g,m,s,r, li-s,p,n,r…];
Lla, Lle, Llë, Lli, Llo, Llu… [Lla-m,f,p,t… Llo-m,c,f…];
Ma, Me, Më, Mi, Mo, Mu, My, Mb, Mc, Mç, Md, Mf, Mh, Mj, Mk, Mn, Mp, Mq, Mr, Ms, Mt, Mv, Mx, Mz… [Ma-t,m,ng,r,l,dh,th,z… Mb-a,e,ë,i,o,u,y,r… Me-s,sh,k,l,n,r… Mi-e,d,k,sh,r… Më-m,d,dh,h,k,l,ll,n,r,s,sh,t,v,z,sh… Mj/alt,el,ep,et…];
Na, Ne, Në, Ni, No, Nu, Ny, Nd, Nt, Nk, Ng…;
Nja, Nje, Një, Nji, Njy, Njo, Nju;
O (është; pasthirmë), Od, Of, Og, Oh, Oj, Ok, Ol, Om, On, Op, Or, Os, Osh, Ot, Ov, Oz, Ozh, Ox, Oxh…;
Pa, Pe,Pë, Pi, Po, Pu, Py, Pj, Pl, Pll, Pr, Ps, Psh… [Pa-r,ra,s,sh,k,l,ll,m,n,t… Pe-r,n,sh,t… Për/pro/pran…; P(j)ell(g), P(ll)l-ak,f,g,s,p,t,z,g - umb… Pjesë, Poll, Pu-n,l,ll,s… Pr/i,o,oj,ij,t,sh,z… Pre(j), Pi(k)];
Ra, Re, Rë, Ri, Ro, Ru, Ry… [ra-c,dh,n,m,s,n,t,s,j,n,m,t,z,b,n,t,s,k…];
Qa, Qe, Që, Qi, Qo, Qu, Qy, Qj, Qk, Qp, Qr, Qs, Qt,…;
Sa, Se, Së, Si, So, Su, Sy, Sb, Sc, Sç, Sd, Sdh, Sf, Sj, Sk, Sp, Sq, St… [Si(y), Sjell, Sk-[Skip(e), Skup, Skop, skun–s+kun–kun–kuni–lidhjet me shkrimin kuniform, Hu, Ku(h,n...);,
Sha, She, Shë, Shi, Sho, Shu, Shy, Shb, Shd, Shf, Shj, Shk, Shl, Shn, Shp, Shq, Sht…;
Ta, Te, Të, Ti, To, Tu, Ty, Tj, Tk, Tm, Tn, Tr… [Ta-ç,gji,r,j,s,sh,v,t,n,mël… Tra-g,n,s,sh,k,p,t,z… Te-l,m,n,j,f,h,k,p,r… Tro, Tru, To-k,p,n… Tu-mb…];
Tha, The, Thë, Thi, Tho, Thu, Thy, Thj, Thn, Thr… [Tha-m,r,t… The-m,r,s… Thir, Thot…]; Ub, Ud, Udh, Uf, Ug, Uh, U (Unë), Uj, Ul, Ull, Um, Un, Ur, Urr, Us, Ush, Ut, Uth, Uv, Uz…;
Va, Ve, Vë, Vi, Vo, Vu, Vy, Vd, Vgj, Vj, Vl, Vll, Vr…;
Xa, Xe, Xë, Xi, Xo, Xu…;
Xha, Xhe, Xhë, Xhi, Xho, Xhu, Xhy;
Ya,Ye, Yç, Yh, Yj, Yl, Yll, Yn, Yr, Ys, Ys, Yz…;
Za, Ze, Zë, Zi, Zo, Zu, Zy, Zb, Zd, Zg, Zgj, Zj, Zll, Zm, Zv;
Zha, Zhe, Zhë, Zhi, Zho, Zhu, Zhy, Zhb, Zhd, Zhdh, Zhg, Zhgj, Zhv.
... (data that are within these brackets [ ] explain how the words flow from the basic semantic units in different variations, but technically it is impossible to present examples of all the characters based) ... and hundreds of thousands of phoneme, morpheme, root, and other small units of semantic, which encounter within the 'nature of all languages' most recent, deriving from the so-called 'natural language' (the oldest language based).
To better understand how some parts of semantic units mentioned above, have penetrated language after language from prehistory until today, I will give a symbolic example clarification / deciphering / decoding of only one morpheme reported by Our language (such as tree / root), in those Japhetic (Japheth), Indo-(Arjan) European (Hami) and partly in the first sparks of what Semitic (Shemi):
First morpheme in the examples mentioned above, is "At"("Father") as substantial basis Shapes a linguistic concept and can not be divided further into smaller semantic units, in addition to sharing 'semiotics' of the letters of the answers again Albanian language ... which is a still more in-depth study and goes still deeper in time, since etymologic explanation of cross-cultural mythological characters before, the way of creating of mankind as MATA "Ma'at" - Ma / MAME / Mother and At/Father / tax ... - To remember that pelasgian mythology (in this case Egyptian) "says", Thot/ Idris / Enoch, who conveyed the divine word to teach mankind the religion and art construction, geometry ... was the brother of "Mat" astrological reference, or "god" of law and justice. Both these words, names or concepts (Thot and Mat), explained in the same context with the role they have played in mythology, as we understand today by the Albanian only. Also by Mat (measured) comes, comes word - "Mate mati k" ... which also has the same concept with semantic units without complications shared linguistic and still can be understood by all. From here Ma "thema" have derivative "thema/theme", which is a synthesis of means with a Mat(measured( and "Them"(Them/ to say...) ... Ma "tem" Atik, Thot-Tem/Them derivative, and so For more on ... in the wake of the creation of the first linguistic concepts through the Albanian language, from the hieroglyphs, kuniform ... can be read here Giuseppe Catapano, Granam Hancock & Robert Bauval, etc..
and we let you go back to sample "At" (father) consider and present how this concept Father / Daddy / Dad, is used as core in the languages of the latter antique people:
"at" – albanian;
π"ατ"έρας - New Greek;
f"at"her – English;
v"at"er – German;
p"at"er – Mikenian;
ta"at" – Estonian;
t"at"ă – Romanian;
"at"ya – Hungarian;
"at"a – Azerbaijani;
"at"hair – Irish;
"ta"d – Velsh;
pi"tā" – Hindi;
ai"ta" – Basque;
ta"at"to – Finisht;
t"at"ko - south Slavs;
"от"ец – Russian;
p"ad"re - Italian;
v"ad"er-Dutch;
f"ad"er – Swerdish;
p"ad"re – Spanish;
v"ad"er – Afrcian;
p"ad"eri/pende"ta" – Indonesian;
t"at"ang – Filipian;
ph"át" minh - Vietnam... ... and so on up to Semitic, onwards.
___
So, the basis of formation of a word, seen in lower part of her that makes sense. Our speaker come to explain the smaller divisions of names with meaning in itself, especially the Indo-European languages ​​(as a larger group).

All living languages, especially their largest group, Indo-European ones, lead/guide/ determine the direction to the Albanian language, Albanian language leads to building codes, which (according to Egyptian albanolog Mathieu Aref) has no genesis connection with any other language (p.240-"Albania"). So we speak a language that is created without any previous model, born together with the development of mankind and is suprising the fact that "today's Albanian language has been preserved almost intact during more than 30 centuries (since beginning of the invasion of Indo-European) in the highlands of old Europe [science maintains that the natives living in the mountains (being retrieved from invasions), while in fields newcomers] and above all, those of the Dinaric Alps "(p.435 ibid) and thus attains to explain a large number of Etruscan words, Thracian, Greek, Latin, Basque, Armenian, Celtic, Romanian, etc.. "(ibid f.559).


In the context of the topic:
Zeus<>Zot; Zot in albanian is God in english
Zues/Dias... “Di” {Di~dit~diell~dias(Zeus)~d(r)it/(r-reze)... (Di>Knowledge... Dit>Day... Diell>Sun... Iell/Hyell/Ill/Yll>Star... [Hyjni, Hyu, Hyj, Yj, Hyll, Yll, Ill… Yllirians]... D(r)it>Light... (r)reze... Ar>Gold... Ar> loam... Ar(God in old albanian)...
Also, in albanian language is synthesized the double meaning in ethymology of Zeus/Dias, in twice meaning, from the good side(Zeus/Zot>God) and from the bad side Dias/Di(j)all/Dejall/Dexhall>Devil...

This homonym is transmited and in other latter languages of the antiquity:
For example in German
Diell nämlich Sonne
Djal nämlich Sohn

Slavic:
Diell znaci Sonce
Djal znaci Sin
...
"...Di– (earlier Diw–). This root also shows up in "Latin", which in fact is ALBANIAN {Di~dit~diell~dias(zeus)~d(r)it/(r-reze)...} di is “day”, borrowed into English in words like diurnal. Closely related to these words is Indo-European *deiwos “god”, which shows up, among other places, in the name of the Old English god Tiw in Modern English Tuesday, “Tiw's day...”
_____________________________________________
Zeus is a comletely unusual noun in "Greek", having both a stem Z n–(as in the philosopher Zeno's name) and a stem Di– (earlier Diw–). In the Iliad prayers to Zeus begin with the vocative form Zeu pater, “ Comparative philology has revealed that the “sky” word refers specifically to the bright daytime sky, as it is derived from the root meaning “to shine.” This root also shows up in ""Latin""(which in fact is ALBANIAN (dita) di s “day,” borrowed into English in words like diurnal. Closely related to these words is Indo-European *deiwos “god,”which shows up, among other places, in the name of the Old English god Tiw in Modern English Tuesday, “Tiw's day.” *Deiwos is also the source of Latin d vus “pertaining to the gods,” whence English divine and the Italian operatic diva, and deus, “god,” whence deity. The sun is considered a normal star but differently to the night stars it is seen as the DAY STAR.. Gen 1:14 calls the sun a sign for day. The Moon is called a lesser light to rule the night. In the myth the sun 'dies' in the evening and rises in the morning. Remember the eclipse accompanying Jesus' death on the cross?
_____________________________________________
The corresponding Albanian word zot means God, lord, gentleman, master. No wonder, that the publication of Copernicus’s “The Revolutions” had an immediate political consequence; it strengthened the claims of all monarchs of Europe to absolute power.
_____________________________________________
Zeus has been at all the times simbolizing the SUN and the Indo-European ancestor of Zeus was a God of the bright daytime sky *Dieuo and *deiuo ("the day time, a shining sky") or a sunny day. DIELLI in Albanian means sun, ZEUS and SUN. Great altar of Zeus pf Pergamon in Asia Minor, is described in Revelations as the site of “Satan's seat” (Rev. 2:12-13). Later used as a model for one of Hitler's rostrums. Emperor Hadrian who destroyed Jerusalem and its Temple finished great Temple of Zeus, the Olympian, called Olympieum, in Athens in 131, and initiated cult of his gay lover Antinuous centered on his villa in Tivoli (kind of an early Vatican).
_____________________________________________
The Albanian lind (sun) and pjell (p.t polla, *polli) are synonims to each-other. This last one is the root of the noun APOLLO.
_____________________________________________
- Gods were called in Albanian HYJNI
which derived from YJE stars
- She-Goat of Zeus Above Albanian Flag...
_____________________________________________

Reference:
http://thescincedelusion.blogspot.com/2010/04/religion-paraded-as-science_19.html
For skeptics or uninformed people:
... for albanian language, origin, race, culture:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=23767&id=100001133356751&l=5e6b160e5a
__________________________________________________ _________________
"...Hyginus is supported by Pliny who states positively in his Natural History that the FIRST LATIN ALPHABET WAS A PELASGIAN ONE..."

"...the Muse mother of Evander the Arcadian, ...who adapted the Pelasgian alphabet to the Latin..."

"...Orpheus is recorded by Diodorus to have used the Pelasgian alphabet..."
Referencë:
THE WHITE GODDES
http://www.americanneopaganism.com/The-White-Goddess.pdf
_________________
Gaius Plinius Secundus, (23-79 e.s.)
VII 56(57),
"The first alphabet is created by Illyrians and Roman’s writing is taken from Illyrians."

"The first that brought the Alphabet into Latium or Italy, were the Pelasgians. (Pliny the Elder (Gaius Plinius Secundus) wrote in Book VII, chapter 56 concerning letters"
_____
http://soul-of-the-pillar.blogspot.com/2010/11/pelasgians-and-etruscansgreek-alphabet.html
It is interesting to note that many scholars, rightly, could not determine or Generalized Albanian alone or as part of a group of languages. Once some think that it's Centum, once as SATEM (in fact it serves as a link between these groups, it is a more proof that it stands on above these groups), somtimes of Illyrian origin, Thracian, Dacian, Etruscan, Celtic, Frigian, Hitite or sometimes as the oldest branch of the Indo-European, sometims pre-proto-Indo-European sometimes Anatolian, Paleo-Balkan language sometimes, etc.. Also, this approach are mixet more from langauge "artifacts" that will be noted from Egypt, Middle East, Caucasus, Illyrian peninsula, Apenin ... all around the Mediterranean, to the newer languages (just around the triangular base towards circulated / world civilization interact, the surprisingly marked with a equal sides distance between Dodona of pelasgian Zeus, Ararat - rebirth of humanity-the ark of Noah / Nuh and the Great Pyramid in Egypt. (In this context, read "The oracle of Dodona" by Maksim Zotaj or http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/egyptgeodesy.htm).
This confusing approach purified when proved the direct connection beetwen Pelasgian and todays Albanian language, as extract of subsequent cultures and peoples. Just like the Pelasgian languge is distributed as element in subsequent cultures and peoples, synonymous with this concept is when we say that in that period are distributed the Albanian language roots in those languages what we can find even today.
Language scheme, from italian linguist and anthropologist Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66233&l=7cb8960819&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146066&l=a7c909f8b8&id=100001133356751

Pelasgian alphabet:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66315&l=f6d4521ff3&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148670&l=f01e5fe94d&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66143&l=7b3d0c7a42&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66138&l=a86eb322d8&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66140&l=3711081fd8&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66173&l=c44dbf0be2&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=298333&l=b113ea1e72&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66141&l=82eb0edf79&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=298334&l=9d1c6972e0&id=100001133356751

Etruscan - Albanian - English - Vocabulary
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=68996&l=5795be8676&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69017&l=ceb338d776&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69018&l=a82de2194c&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69019&l=27116aced9&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69020&l=cc60a41bea&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69021&l=7a09b6e9ce&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69022&l=6aafa23683&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69023&l=42ccdc766b&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69024&l=86294d8b98&id=100001133356751

Homer Language
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66164&l=62b6e46d8b&id=100001133356751

There are thousands of "pre-greek" words, what they translate today in new greek language, but they are the same in albanian laguage even today !
Here some of them:
pre greek(pelasgian)----greek<>albanian-----albanian (or pelasgian)
αμας amas-------------------imitera=nena------------ama, nena, ema...
αταρ-atar----------------------tote-ateher----------------atar, ateher...
αυς-ais---------------------------aftos=ai----------------------ai, aj...
αναιρον-aneron------------oniro=enderr-----------aneron, enderron...
αφαρ-afar---------------sti stigmi=ne moment ---------afar, afer...
βασαι-vishe------------------iselthise=vije--------------vishe, vijshe...
βαν--van-------------------porevude-shkojn-------------van, vajten...
βαριον-barion------------provaton=deleve------------barion, bariu...
βασκ-bask----------paralila porevute=ecin paralel---------bask, bashk...
βη-vi---------------------prevome=eci,vij-shkoj------------vi, vij...
βραχαι-vrahe-------------psofise=ngordhi--------------vra, vrahe...
βριτος-britos------------------etos=viti---------britmi (britmi i parë shtatori, fillimi i vitit-Frank Bardhi)…
βυσαι-vishe-------------kripse-fshihe, mbuloje-------veshje, vishe...
γαναι-gjane---------------periptizi=afersisht----------gjane, ngjane...
γουνον-gjunon-----------gonatizi-gjunjezon------gjunon, gjunon (geg)...
γραος-graos----------------gjini-gra, grua----------------graos, gra…
διζα-dhiza-------------------katsíka=dhia----------------dhiza, dhia…
εικειν-ikin---------------ipohorun=terhiqen--------------ikin, iki...
εντυε-endie-----------parasqevazi=endi,endje-----------endie...
ερδαι-erdhe------------------elthe=erdhe-------------------erdhe...
ετας-etas----------------------patir=babai-------------------etas, eti...
εβροεντα-evroenda-------skotini=e errta---------e vroenda, e vrejtura...
ευροπη-evropi----skotini,qe hora tis dhisis=e errta edhe vendi i perendimit-------evro- evront e erret...
ζει-zi-------------------------flegji-pervelon-----------------zien, zi...
Ζωτεαττας-Zoteatas---Apolloni=Perendia--------Zoteatas=Zoti Atë, Ati Zoti...
κιελλι-qielli------------------uranos=qielli----------------qielli, qielli...
κορτειν-kortin--------------kurion=korrin--------------kortin, korrin...
κρειον-krion----------------vasilias=mbreti-------------Krieon, Kryeja...
κρουναι-krune----------------pigji=burim--------------krune, krun-kroj...
μαλα-mala------------------------ori=male-------------------mala, male...
μενειν-menin----------thymós,orgí-zemerimin-------menin, meni, merin...
πλαγαν-plagan-----------------pligji=plage--------------plagan, plaga...
πραιναι=prene--------------prionizi=sharron-------------prene, pren...
etc,etc...
* The words of the so-called 'pre-Greek' or Pelasgian, are taken from the book of "Hesychii Alexandrini lexicon" - Kurt Latte, Peter Allan Hansen.

• Pelasgian inscriptions that can be read only by the Albanian language:
http://soul-of-the-pillar.blogspot.com/2010/11/pelasgians-and-etruscansgreek-alphabet.html
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66147&l=a2d07351ee&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66176&l=941d1cff0a&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148823&l=72d720898d&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148153&l=151ac01fc3&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148814&l=1e89c95237&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148835&l=f7d2429502&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66166&l=e8a35ea43f&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66167&l=e47d657233&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66179&l=dcc9749043&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66155&l=e023af7946&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66156&l=4ca67cc19f&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66180&l=6c34103025&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66174&l=54f292af81&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66172&l=a6abc2bd9d&id=100001133356751
Etc, etc...
Some old maps:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247849&l=2734f5e6e0&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247850&l=d6812c2f15&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247851&l=c4edafe09e&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247852&l=b330d5c0c3&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146065&l=ba836eb60a&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146067&l=c4ad7394f9&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146075&l=59a5b17f41&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=139504&l=95cb943dd0&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143994&l=1b448a87a4&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=144000&l=107f963504&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143986&l=bbc34ea350&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143987&l=8d1a09c5c7&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=147992&l=41ef8f5e9d&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143988&l=45366cc727&id=100001133356751
The three Shkypetar States, Illyria, Epirus and Macedonia, rose against Rome…-“Albania, the foundling state of Europe”, Wadham Peacock 1914).
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=145979&l=482e979db0&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=147962&l=6de6f6c8a9&id=100001133356751
Herodotus maps:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/363506/2196/Herodotus-map-of-the-world
http://www.old-map-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/World_Map_Herodotus.jpg
http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00362/images/HerodotusWorld.jpg
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143990&l=62091440a5&id=100001133356751

* Illyrian..............................Albanian.... ........................English:
atsar....................................... acar ...................................frost
ask.................................. …..ashkë ..................................
kapa...................................... kapa ..................................catch
kekja.................................….keqja ..................................badly
nasor............................... nesër(nesra) ........................tomorow
apa...........................................pa ..................................whithout
awalaka............................ …flaka .................................flame
laja..........................................lehj e ...................................yelp
wrask......................... .vras(rrah,lendoj) ....................injure(beat)
stana.................................... shtaza .................................brute
matja.......................... …matja,mas,mat ......................measure
dela..................................…..djal .....................................boy
balta..................................... balta ...................................mud
berja.................................. berja,bije ................................fall
de.....................................…...dje ..................................yesterday
smerka............................…mjekra ................................beards
tsela..................................... tsjella ................................brought
wet........................................vjet ..............................year(or last year)
dedr..............................djath(nga gjedh) .......................cheese
esmi......................................jemi ....................................we are
melita.................................. mjalt ...................................honey
amal.............................amal,amël,ëmbë l ................….sweetly
tamal............................ .tamël,qumsht ...................... ..milk
breda.............................. ….bredh ................................loiter
perenda...............................brenda ...............................inside
entenda........................... …denda .................................ply
ambiledza ........................e mblodha ........................I gathered
trempa ..................................tremb ...............................scare
deta.......................................djathta ...............................right
mems ....................................mish ..................................meat
ambi ......................................mbi ...................................above
binda ....................................binda ...............................convince
bugt .......................................butë ....................................soft
buzja .....................................buza .....................................lip
druw ..................................dru(druits) ..........................wood(tree)
kuri ........................................guri ....................................stone
mater ....................................motër ..................................sister
skap ......................................shkop ..................................stick
stanj .......................................shtoj ...................................attach
lad...........................................lodh ....................................tire
mats .......................................mos ....................................don't
ngraj .....................................ngroht .................................warm
plat ..........................................plot …................................a lot
tsensmi .................................themi .................................we say
blora............................ ….blert(blerim) ......................green(verdure)
njas ........................................ngjesh ................................compress
dija ........................................di(dija) ........................I knew(knowledge)
dita ..........................................dita ....................................day
nat ...........................................natë ...................................night
pija .........................................pi(pija) ...............................drink
trutja ........................................trusja …............................I press
ngruda ...................................ngrydha ............................I crowd
krupa ........................................kripa .................................salt
buma .........................................bima ................................plant
busht .........................................bisht ..................................tail
nbunj ..........................................mbij ................................flourish
muja........................................... miza ...............................fly(insect)
suj ............................................shij(s hoj) ..............................rain
lais ...............................................les h ...................................fur
waina ..........................................vera .................................summer
deimen .................................dimen(dimer) ........................winter
ranja ........................................rronja(rro j) ........................lives(dwell)
tausnja ....................................thaja (thanja) …...................dry up
deur ..............................................deri ....................................to
laus ...............................................las ht ..................................old
laidna ............................................e lë ...................................leave
dora ..............................................dora ..................................hand
kranja...........................................k yeja ..................................head
mosnj ..........................................muaj .................................month
kousnja .......................................quaja ................................I named
tsanja .......................................çaja(thyej a) ............................break
Prij.............................................. ...prij ..................................guide,lead
pari............................................pa ri (i pari).......................... first, lead
para............................................. para ............................... pre, proto, before
per............................................... ..për .................................... pro
puta.............................................p yeta .................................I asked
grawa ..........................................grua ...................................women
griwika .......................................gryka ..................................nozzle
mbiwela .....................................mbylla ................................closed
leip ................................................ly p .......................................beg
krim ............................................krimb ....................................worm
wrip .............................................rryp .......................................belt
wara .............................................ura ......................................bridge
Veglia .........................................Vegla ......................................Tool
rhinon .......................................re (reja) ............................... clouds
sica ...........................................thika,s pata ............................knife/sword
Didi .............................................Dede ......................................Dupe
amic.............................................. mik ........................................friend
est ................................................ë shtë .......................................is
cael ..............................................qiel l ........................................sky
Havá .................................hava(qiell),paraj së..... .............. heaven(+paradise)
creare .........................................krijoj ..................................make, create
Vendum ....................................Vendi ....................................the place
Vician ..........................................Vise .....................................locations
Malontum ...............................Mal,malet ..............................Mountain
Dyrrach Dyrrë.........................derë,dyer......... ... ................ seaport, door
Ora ............................................ora,ko ha ..............................the hour, the time
fimia ...........................................fëmija ........................................child
Dassi .......................................... Dash .........................................Aries
Math .................................... Math(madh).................................. great
Hyll ........................................Hyll(yll,i ll) .....................................star
barda .........................................bardha .......................................white
Bardhyll ..............................bardh+yll(us,star) .......................white star
Bardibal ..................................bardh+ball ...........................white forehead
Dardhania............................... Dardh+an .................................fruit+side
Dalma ........................................Delmne ...................................fold,cattle
… Most of these Illyrian words, were registered before the first century, therefore, before the Roman period.
Here the etymology of some words Thracian (Dacian part, as a derivative of Thracian), of which, in this electronic dictionaries (official) http://dacia.8m.net/Diverse/Dictionar_al_limbii_trace/dictionar_al_limbii_trace.html (http://dacia.8m.net/Diverse/Dictionar_al_limbii_trace/dictionar_al_limbii_trace.html), were only 5-6 in albanian, and whith the first look i saw all the others in albanian also:
* bur, buris (boris) - 'man' [Alb. burrė 'man']
* datan (datas) - 'place, settlement' [Alb. datė 'place, settlement]
* drenis - 'deer' [Alb. dre, dreni 'deer']
* ermas - 'fierce, mad' [Alb. jerm 'furious, mad']
* mezéna - 'a horseman' [Alb. mes, mezi 'stallion', Roman. (substrat) mīnz 'stallion']
* pupa - 'beans' or 'hill' (?) [Alb. pupė 'hill' or Lith. pupa 'beans' or]
* rera - 'stones, stony ground' (from an earlier *lera) [Alb. lerė, -a 'stones, fallen stones']
* titha - 'light, radiance' [Alb. ditė 'day' morning, ‘day', Greek titó' 'morning glow]
* an(a) - 'at, on' [Alb. anë/në atë anë "side/direction", Avest. ana 'along', Greek aná 'at, along', Goth. ana 'at, towards']
* balios - 'white', [IE *bhel-] Alb. Bardh/Balosh
* berga(s) - 'hill, bank' [Alb. Breg/Brigje , Old-Icel. berg 'mountain', Old-HighGerman berg, German Berg 'mountain', Old-Bulg. [email protected], New-Bulg. brjag 'bank, coast'].
* bredas - 'pasture-ground' [Alb. Bredh (Brigjet) 'wander', Russ. bred, bredina 'pasture', bresti, bredu 'to cross by a ford', Balt. (Zhemait.) RN Bred-upja].
* bor - 'mountain' [Alb. Borë (në maje të malit), in Huper-boreoi 'those living behind the mountain'; IE *Hegwr- 'hill, mountain']
* bria - 'town' [Alb, në gjuhen shqipe shume shpesh perdoret si component shtes ne emërimet e vendeve “ia”, Strab.; Steph. Byz. under the word of Messembria. Both authors state the word was Thracian. It is often found as a second component of Thracian settlement names, for example: Messembria, Poltymbria, Sélymbria, Skedabria, etc. The Thracian 'bria' is related to the Toch. A ri, B riye 'town (a refuge on a hill)' – from the IE wrijá]
* dero, dur - 'a stockade' [Alb. Derë (portë, që zakonisht është bërë nga druri); [IE *dhwer- 'a door, a gate']
* desa(s), disa(s) - 'deity, god' [Alb. Di(as) quheshte ndryshe Zeusi (që rrjedh nga fjala Di/dij/drit); IE *deiwo-, Greek théos 'a god]
* dinga - 'fertile ground' [Alb. Drith(nga di/drit) dhe Ga (gan/gea-dheu), Latv. dinga 'fertile place', Old-Icel. dyngia 'dunghill']
* douro - 'strong' [Alb. Duro (behu i forte), Celt. *duro-]
* gava(s) - 'county, countryside' [Alb. Ose para greke gaia (dheu/toka) "Plasgia", pjell nga gia/gaia (dhea-u/toka), Goth. gawi 'county', Att. gé 'land, region']
* gesa - 'stork kingfisher' [Alb. resa/rosa, Old-Pruss. geeyse 'kingfisher', Latv. dzése 'heron, kingfisher'];
* iúras (=júras) - 'water, river' [Alb. ujra/juri(vend i lagesht), Lith. júra 'a sea', Old-Nord. úr 'drizzle'];
* kalsas 'dry, dried up' [Alb. kalbet/thahet/vyshket, Latv. kálst (-stu, -tu) 'to dry up, to wither'];
* ketri, ketre - 'four' [Alb. Katër/i katri; IE *kwetwores, Greek tetra 'four', Cymr. pedry- 'four-fold', Lith. keturi, Latv. c'etri, Bulg. c'etiri 'four'];
* kupsela - 'a heap, a hillock' [Alb. Kupë, Lith. kupse.lis 'heap, hillock'];
* kurp- 'to burrow'; [Alb/ korpë, Lith. kurpti (-i?) 'to burrow', Russ. korpat' 'to burrow'];
* lingas - 'depression, meadow'; [Alb. Lëngoj, por edhe me gjuhet tjera lidhet homonimi tjeter, lendinë; Lith. lénge 'low land', PN Linge, Bulg. [email protected] 'meadow']
* mér- 'large, great' [Alb. Mejr - me theksin te e-ja, thuhet për dicka "shume/e madhe", bjeri meejr... në gegnisht, IE mér-, Church Slavic personal name [email protected], Old-HighGerman Volk-már, Hlodo-már, Old-Icel. már 'big'].
* musas - 'moss, mould' [Alb. myshk; Old-HighGerman, Anglo-Saxon mos 'moss, swamp', German Moss 'moss', Church-Slav. [email protected]@ 'moss', Lith. musai, pl. 'mould on yoghourt'].
* para, phara - 'settlement, village' [Alb. fara, vendbanim (fara jonë/fisi jonë/njerzit tonë/vendbanimi jonë)... from the IE *(s)porá as 'village'].
* paurakis - 'small' [Alb. piciruk; Latin paucus 'small']
* pi - 'beside, more'; [Alb. Pi, nga gegnishtja- apo prej]
* pinon - 'a drink' [Alb. pi/pije/pina/pijnë- IE *poi-, 'to drink', Latin pibo 'I drink', Slavic *piti 'to drink'].
* pras – (resp. *praus) - 'to wash, to splash, to bedew'; [Alb. prashit(kultivoj), poashtu edhe homonimi tjeter Alb. spërkat, Lith. prausti 'to wash, to sprinkle', Latv. prauslat 'to splash", besprinkle', Old-Ind. prusnó'ti 'to splash'];
* raka(s) - 'eroded place, a gully' [Alb. rëke, rëre, Lith. rakti 'to burrow'];
* rumba(s) - 'edge; rapids'; [Alb. rumba apo kërcej, Lith. rumbas 'periphery', Latv. rumba 'waterfall, rapids'].
* siros - 'a granary' [Alb. Silos, hambar ne gegnisht]
* strumá, strumón - 'current, river' [Alb. strum, vije qe krijohet nga mocali, apo gropë e thellë ne lum, apo vend ku bie uji me shumë fuqi), Old-HighGerman stroum, German Strom 'current' river', Lith. sraumuo, -ens 'fast current']
* sura (zura) - 'current, stream' [Alb. Zura, kapa, Old-Ind. sirá 'current. stream'].
* taru - 'spear'; [Alb. dru, trung, Greek dóry 'tree' and 'spear', Hett. taru- 'tree, trees', Old-Ind. dáru- 'tree']
* tranas - 'rotting' [Alb. tretem/tretje, Lith. RN Tranys, trene.ti 'to rot, to decompose'];
* traus - 'to break, to crumble' [Alb. trus (shtyp), poashtu edhe tra, Lith. traušti 'to break, to crumble', traušus 'brittle', the Latv. trauss, trausls 'brittle, fragile', Old-Russ. [email protected] 'lazy; sad'];
* tri 'three' [Alb. tri, tre, IE *treyes, *trí 'three']
* tund - 1. 'to push, to knock' - 2. 'river' [ 1.Alb. tund (shkund), 2Alb. tendë, 1. Latin tundó, -ere 'to push, to knock' Old-Ind. tundaté 'to push'. 2. Old-Icel. ?und 'river'].
* turm - 'a run, a flight' [Alb. turr, turrej (sulmoj,vrapoj)/turma, Old-Ind. drámati 'to run', Greek drómos 'a run'].
* udra(s) - 'otter' [Alb. Hidra, hider; IE *wed-, *wod-, Old-Ind. udráh 'water animal', Avest. udra- 'otter', Greek hydros, Old-HighGerman ottar, Lith. údra, Bulg. vidra 'otter'].
* udrénas; úkas; upa; urda(s); uskuutos... Alb. të gjitha këto koncepte kane te bejne me U-jin
* vair (as/us) - 'spinning' [Alb. varëse (tjerrje), Lith. vairus, vairas 'spinning', Swed. vírr 'a spiral']
* verza(s) - 'a barrier used for fishing [Alb. Verza; dam', Latv. varza 'dam'].
* zan 'a clan, a family' [Alb. zan/zen/nxen/gen, IE *g'en- 'to give birth, a kin'];
* zenis, zenés - 'born, born in' [Alb. zënes, që nxe/ë, gjenezë, genes in the Greek personal name of Dio=génes, from the IE *g'en- 'to give birth' in the Old-Latin geno 'to produce, to give birth'].
* zi - 'god' [Alb. Zot, shortened from ziu-, zia- and similar, IE *deiwo- 'sky god', Albanian/Greek Zeus];

Hittite words
Albanian words

Ni
Ata
At-i
Asht
Asht-i
Mat
Mat-ënj
Maje
Manj
Njoj
Njoh
Wit
Vit-i
Ane
Anë
Gjun
Gju
Qend
Qind
Ili
Yll
Bait
Baj
Et
Etë
Est
Është
Gurta (qytet)
(i) Gurtë
Lule
Lule
Dor
Dorë
Mial
Mjaltë
Wesha
Veshje
Urim
Urim
Shur
Shur
Turija
Turi
Nakt
Natë
Ara
Arë-a
Shkal
Shkallmoj
Sojoti
Sitë
Hur
Ur-i
Lehit
Lehtë
Lissi
Lis
(Hittites wors are taken from the book Tat parlava alabnese- author Giuseppe Catapano)
• Here are some other hittite words, which I found to be translated into English, but in fact remain in the original Albanian still today:

Hittite words
Albanian words
Imme
Nime (nji mend – vërtetë)
Ash
Ash (Ash, Osh, A, O - është)
Awi
Avitu, avejtu (a vjen, afrohu)
Wer
Vejrm (virri, piskati)

So... this was only only within the framework of linguistic... the same situation is whith other components of the CULTURE (in the broad sense of the word)... and now, what is common denominator of these cultures above... of course Pelasgian... what's why so many scientist came to the conclusion that Albanians are a remnant of the original ancient Pelasgians

* "The first step of liquidating a nation is to delete his memory. Destroy its books, its culture, its history. Then pick someone to write new books, create a new culture and, to invent a new history. Before you spend too long the nation will forget what it is and what was"
* "A nation of sheep Will beget a government of Wolves" - Edward R. Morrow (1908-1965)
* "The true history of mankind will be written only when Albanians participate in it's writing" - Maximilian Lambertz, Albanien erzählt: ein Einblick in die albanische Literatur (Berlin 1956)
* "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
________________________
+
Dielli
http://zeus10.webs.com/
Dielli (2)
http://zeus10.wordpress.com/
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Can someone proceed whith the topic now...

zanipolo
24-09-11, 23:16
@ zanipolo
You've done grat job whith the translation :) - Every nation lie about theirself, my nation don't even had the opportunity to develop institutions and to make any propaganda like others did... adding here and the attribute of nihilism, or selflessness what albanians had in their blood (culture)... I told you, albanians don't care who they are at all... their primary task was to survive (by changing religion, nationality...) and now is to make money, just to alleviate this permanent poverty.
So, that's why I'm posting here hounderts of studies by international scientist, who don't have the reason to be nationalistic. I enjoy to post here studies even from slavic and greek scientist, who historicaly were fighting albanians... ! (Slavs fought albanians to take their tetrritory, just to have access to the sea, but greeks want to eradicate all albanians, because the existing of Shqiptar, or the Albanian identity, is the primary risk for the historic glory, what greeks want to monopolize).
By the way, you simple dont understand that the region what is now inhabited by Albanians, is inhabited by the same people since prehistory, although neighbors claim territories based on invasions. Dardanians are the heart of albanian identity (of course they can't be slavs, or greeks)... they are todays Kosovars, or the link between thracian and illyrian culture (if they if they were not as one)... this is shown and in the language, culture, facial color... of todays albanians in Kosovo.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/59010_129386647109113_100001133356751_144005_32371 60_n.jpg

http://www.albaniacountry.info/the-dardanians-a-quest-into-prehistory
+ Everyone here have to understand that in the culture of albanians, does not exist propaganda, and they dont even ACT (operate, take actions...) to take something what was their... they always REACT, to deffent what is still left. And for them, there are not close nations (sister nations, mother nations, or any of these) or foreign nations... for albanians genetically all are the same... that's why Wadham Peacock wrote the book - Albania, the foundling state of Europe

As always, I want to reinforce my thoughts, by studies from international scientists:
Dr. Alexander Lambert: Europe sabotage albanian history in the nineteenth century, when Illyria was called the Balkans

Europe should be proud to have in her bosom the Albanian nation, which should be evaluated as more tolerant ... there is no case that the Albanians in any moment of history they are no recognized as a nation that has attacked other nations and they never did not take part in the massacres. It is known that the Albanians have to shame to kill an enemy who surrenders... and that many Albanians have excellent running if the empire, whether other countries. Likewise, in his other Albanians have left their name in different fields of sciences in various countries of the world ...



"European civilization scandal !"

"If we return to the pre-history, before the Homeric bard to sing deities and mythological heroes, before writing of the Greek language, lived a people known as Pelasgians ...
... Albanians are the only ones who have come so far from this powerful breed of prehistory. Only recently been determined that the Pelasgians were the ancient Illyrians ... These Illyrians spent in Italy named Tosca, as they are called still in Albania, while in Italy have remained as Tosca, Tuscany, Etruscan ...
... Albanian language has been true language of Homer (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66164&l=62b6e46d8b&id=100001133356751), the Greeks have borrowed from the Troubadour Pelasgians epos their outstanding ...
... Albanian (Shqip or "Eagle language") has been the native language of Alexander the great conquests and of Pyrrhus of Epirus, one of the greatest generals of history, which happened to be the ultimate challenge of all invading Roman legions.
... It is beyond any imagination tragedy that this great race and very ancient, laid in this condition, which deserves to be called European civilization scandal. It is not surprising that the Ottoman conqueror prohibit any kind of digging on Albanian soil, which may remind people of its former glory ...
... What a great thresure of knowledge is waiting for archaeologist when the earth of Albanians will open the treasures of the history of the Pelasgians!"

George Fred Williams - The Albanians
(1914)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=149051&l=1c4c6738d3&id=100001133356751

- Further he writes: "crass stone buildings, opposite the Parthenon, the Acropolis of Athens even today they are called Pelasgian ! ...These ancient inhabitants, known as "Divine Pelasgians" also built the great wall of primitive "Cyklopian" - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148824&l=3bd2c70603&id=100001133356751 (even those of Phenixit in Delvina, or those of Ulcinj) ... that as the prof Pokoki, said: they were raised long before the Greeks "to come to life" (as already known from ancient writers that the Pelasgians were the native people before the Hellenic!) - Also known that with the technology of stone "Cyklop" the pyramids of Egypt were constructed...

For more in this direction, see "Pelasgian Masonry":
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=189224&l=195155e482&id=100001133356751
... Studies of the second half of the twentieth century, prove that the albanian is the oldest Indo-European language. Albanian language other than Greek and Armenian language in the script of her sanskrit uses the Latin alphabet, pronounced as it is written. If you enter the ancient history, we can find that Alexander the Great, son of Olympia, Epirotic - Illyrian and albanian (illyrian) had as their mother tongue. Aristotle taught him Greek. Very widespread in today's world the phrase "A pyrrhic victory." And this expression is reminiscent of the famous victory when Pyrrhus was defeated in Askulum Romans in 279 BC. Pirro Plutarku assessed as the greatest strategist of antiquity. It was the Romans who lost their battle in history as the battle that characterizes the beginning of their attachment, whereas Pirro Epirotes and the battle was marked as their point of decadence. World Pirro considered as Greek, although he taught Greek at the age of 12-year-old in Alexandria, where his royal education continued ...
__________________________________________________ ___
... Among the most famous emperors let us mention Constantine the Great, who was born in Kosovo (Dardania). Constantine the Great was he who had put firmly on the side of the Christian church with Ediktin of Milan of 313, which Christians were guaranteed a tolerance that was equal to the recognition of Christianity as state religion. The rule of Constantine the I-st excelled in building Christian monuments, of which I will mention the Vatican. Even the Emperor Justinian I was an Illyrian. He left as a legacy of his work glorious legislative JUSTIANIT CODE THAT HAS left today FOUNDATION OF MODERN CIVIL RIGHTS.
Translator of the Bible in Latin was the Illyrian St. Hieronim. Christian hymn composer and "Laudamus ..." to use even today is the work of composer Nike Dardania, Illyrian from Kosovo. Must acknowledge that the Illyrians in Europe have been one of the first people who accepted Christianity, this is confirmed by the Bible. When St. Paul went on to Illyria to distribute christianity he found a Christian church in Durres...
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tirana-Albania/Perandoret-ilir/385086009144
__________________________________________________ ___
... In the Middle Ages the Albanians have given the world leaders, secular or religious leaders and cultural personalities who cross the borders of Europe. SOME POPE HAVE BEEN whith Albanian origin ...
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69714&l=6d45fc478a&id=100001133356751
... for example - Clement XI's the most righteous of them. But the Albanians have been on top of important world religions, both at the top of orthodox religion, as well as a Muslim. In history we find prominent Albanian leaders in many European countries, even among those who sometimes have determined the fate of many historic battles (in 1515 that Mercury Bua whith the light chivalry of Venice, consisting of all the Albanians set victory Marinjanit battle, the story made him battle of giants and not Francis I of France, 19, two days they learned how fought battle). Albanians have given more prominent prime ministers and generals Ottoman Empire (Qyprili family only gave 5 prime Empire). Albanians have given many heroes of Greek independence, of which I will mention Kundurjotis, Marco Bocari, Kanaris, Kolokotroni, Karaiskaqis, Bubulina. Who were in leadership of the Greek revolution, of which several prime ministers of the newly independent state of Greece. Romania also had a family of Albanian origin princore (Alexander and Vladimir and Princess Eleonora Gjika known as Dora Distr). Francesco Crispin, friend of Garibaldi, the Macinit Kavouri has been a BIG KRYEMINISTË of Italy, was of Albanian origin. Painters like Carpacci, Albany, etc.., Humanitarian Leonic Tome, professor of Copernicus and many Albanian personalities, were honored by the history of Italy. Muhammad Ali of Egypt Modern reformer that French history has called "Napoleon of the Middle East" that Albanian establishing royal dynasty of Egypt who reigned about 150 years. TAJMAHAL architect in Agra, India, masterpieces of Islamic architecture was the work of an Albanian ...
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=189224&l=195155e482&id=100001133356751
... Like the "Blue Mosque" of many important mosques of Istanbul. And finally the Albanian National Hero, Scanderbeg, an almost universal example of freedom fighter, distinguished in the whole world with memorials not only in Tirana, Pristina and Skopje, but also in Rome, Brussels, Geneva, Detroit, Buenos Aires. Other memorials to Scanderbeg are designed to rise in London, Warsaw, Melbourne, Manila etc..
When the Albanians have contributed so much to the civilization of mankind, why few people in the world are aware of this, rather more as did not want to accept this reality?
It must be said that such a thing is explained by the relative isolation of the Albanians not without purpose by the international community, and in particular from Europe, from Berlin Congress onwards (1878). In fact after defeating the Turks in the Russo-Turkish war, the international press began work to ignore the name change Albanians by former Illyrian peninsula inhabited since prehistoric times and until today the Illyrians - Albanians. He was baptized with a new name that even today, the Balkan Peninsula, just getting started from this series of Balkan Mountains. Why was attacked Albanians? Much of European diplomacy has used conservative pejorativ term "Turkish" to describe the Turks as Muslim communities in the Balkans, even though most of them are not Turkish. Europe has supported and has enlarged the lands of Greece, Serbia and Montenegro, at the expense of the Albanians. None of the major European powers did not support this cause, when Albanians created the League of Prizren to defend their case right against decisions of the Congress of Berlin. They were left in the lurch by all ...

... Of course paying dearly this independence, the Albanians with half of the territories populated by Albanians world diplomacy donated Serbs, Greeks and the Montenegrins. And since this time the world began to use the term "Greater Albania" by Albanian misrepresented and discourage any desire to form their legally Albanian nation state. Here's that historical injustice against the Albanians and that really made a debacle in the Balkans, calling the latter "powder magazine" ...
More about the language:

"If you want to discover the history from BC and the sciences of that time, you should study Albanian language" - Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz - Albanolog, mathematicians, german philosopher. It's good to know that this scientific conclusion is made by the colossus of mankind to the rank of Isaac Newton!

Broadening as much in antiquity, the more peoples and nations emerge united with each other, originating from a common extract... In this point, albanians have preserved their language, culture and their ancient race, intact (retreated to mountains, from permanent invasions) from the winds of alienation what happened with all nations... So, when you'll study the albanian question in all its components (like many free scholars, linguist, historian, archaeologist, anthropologist, artist... did, and I mention some of them), you'll encounter elements of the most ancient language, culture, race... that have existed in the world and what is more important, is still alive today {Considering that the oldest world civilization has moved all around the Mediterranean and today with the help of scientists we find traces of albanian language, culture and race, from Egypt, Middle East, Caucasus, Illyrian (Balkan) and Apenin Peninsula... and know you can sync the input of the Mediterranean culture in World culture and finaly you can understand my approach}.

Many names have been made with Albanian roots "An" (an-ë/a)-meaning "Side";
Then the "Ar" [Aryan; Ark (of Noah )-meaning Sun and Gold, Ark...]
Max Myle (mytholog):"The names of many famous people of the old stem from the Albanian word "AR" and "AN", it applies also to the name of enough countries."
Then we have many, many other roots of our language that are used by many more groups to shape the language question, example:
[At, Al, Am (s), As (h), Ar, An (s)] ...
A (is), Ab, Ac, Ad, Af, Ag, Ah, Ai, Aj, Ak, Al, All, Am, An, Anj, Ap, Aq, Ar, Arr, As, Ash, At, Ath, Au, Av, Axh, Az, Azh…; Ba, Be, Bë, Bi, Bo, Bu, By, Bj, Bl, Bll, Bn, Br, Bz… [Ba-b,c,g,h,j,k,l,ll,m,n,p,q,r,s,t,v,z,zh,r… B(p,d)ardh(th)… Bi/r,m,sh… Bie, Bo-r,n,t,ll,sh… Be-s,l… Bë-r,n,m… Bu-t,k,r,z…];
Ca, Ce, Cë, Ci, Co, Cu, Cy, Cj, Cr,…; Ça, Çe, Çë, Çi, Ço, Çu, Çy, Çf, Çj, Çl, Çm, Çn, Çr…;
Da, De, Dë, Di, Do, Du, Dy, Dj, Dr, Dl… [Do(a)n, D(e)a-m,sh,r,le,ve… Di-a,e,o,t… Dj(e)a-l,ll,p… Dr-a,e,i,o,u,y…)];
Dha, Dhe, Dhë, Dhi, Dho, Dhu, Dhj…;
Eb, Ec Ed, Ef, Eg, Ej, Ek, El, Ell, Em, En, Ep, Er, Et, Ev, Ex, Exh, Ez, Ezh;
Fa, Fe, Fë, Fi, Fo, Fu, Fy, Fj, Fl, Fll, Fr, Fsh, Ft…;
Ga, Ge, Gë, Gi, Go, Gu, Gy, Gdh, Gj, Gl, Gr…;
Gja, Gje, Gjë, Gji, Gjo, Gju, Gjy; [G(j)a-n,m,ll,t… Gje-n,th,l,r…];
Ha, He, Hë, Hi, Ho, Hu, Hy, Hj, Hr…; [Ha(ë)n(a), Hi-y,e…);
Ib, Ic, Iç, Id, Idh, If, Ig, Ij, Ik, Il, Ill, Im, In, Inj, Ip, Ir, Irr, Is, Ish, It, Ith, Iu, Iv, Iz… [Ill(yll)];
Ja, Je, Jë, Ji, Jo, Ju… [ jap, jep, jon…];
Ka, Ke, Kë, Ki, Ko, Ku, Ky, Kj, Kl, Kll, Kr, Krr, Ks, Ksh, Kt, Kth… [kam,kap,kal,kat, kem, kep, ker, kra,kre,kri,kro,kry,kumt…];
La, Le, Lë, Li, Lo, Lu, Ly… [la-n,m,r,k ,j,sh,t, le-x,m,sh,ht, lo-j,t,xh,lu-g,m,s,r, li-s,p,n,r…];
Lla, Lle, Llë, Lli, Llo, Llu… [Lla-m,f,p,t… Llo-m,c,f…];
Ma, Me, Më, Mi, Mo, Mu, My, Mb, Mc, Mç, Md, Mf, Mh, Mj, Mk, Mn, Mp, Mq, Mr, Ms, Mt, Mv, Mx, Mz… [Ma-t,m,ng,r,l,dh,th,z… Mb-a,e,ë,i,o,u,y,r… Me-s,sh,k,l,n,r… Mi-e,d,k,sh,r… Më-m,d,dh,h,k,l,ll,n,r,s,sh,t,v,z,sh… Mj/alt,el,ep,et…];
Na, Ne, Në, Ni, No, Nu, Ny, Nd, Nt, Nk, Ng…;
Nja, Nje, Një, Nji, Njy, Njo, Nju;
O (është; pasthirmë), Od, Of, Og, Oh, Oj, Ok, Ol, Om, On, Op, Or, Os, Osh, Ot, Ov, Oz, Ozh, Ox, Oxh…;
Pa, Pe,Pë, Pi, Po, Pu, Py, Pj, Pl, Pll, Pr, Ps, Psh… [Pa-r,ra,s,sh,k,l,ll,m,n,t… Pe-r,n,sh,t… Për/pro/pran…; P(j)ell(g), P(ll)l-ak,f,g,s,p,t,z,g - umb… Pjesë, Poll, Pu-n,l,ll,s… Pr/i,o,oj,ij,t,sh,z… Pre(j), Pi(k)];
Ra, Re, Rë, Ri, Ro, Ru, Ry… [ra-c,dh,n,m,s,n,t,s,j,n,m,t,z,b,n,t,s,k…];
Qa, Qe, Që, Qi, Qo, Qu, Qy, Qj, Qk, Qp, Qr, Qs, Qt,…;
Sa, Se, Së, Si, So, Su, Sy, Sb, Sc, Sç, Sd, Sdh, Sf, Sj, Sk, Sp, Sq, St… [Si(y), Sjell, Sk-[Skip(e), Skup, Skop, skun–s+kun–kun–kuni–lidhjet me shkrimin kuniform, Hu, Ku(h,n...);,
Sha, She, Shë, Shi, Sho, Shu, Shy, Shb, Shd, Shf, Shj, Shk, Shl, Shn, Shp, Shq, Sht…;
Ta, Te, Të, Ti, To, Tu, Ty, Tj, Tk, Tm, Tn, Tr… [Ta-ç,gji,r,j,s,sh,v,t,n,mël… Tra-g,n,s,sh,k,p,t,z… Te-l,m,n,j,f,h,k,p,r… Tro, Tru, To-k,p,n… Tu-mb…];
Tha, The, Thë, Thi, Tho, Thu, Thy, Thj, Thn, Thr… [Tha-m,r,t… The-m,r,s… Thir, Thot…]; Ub, Ud, Udh, Uf, Ug, Uh, U (Unë), Uj, Ul, Ull, Um, Un, Ur, Urr, Us, Ush, Ut, Uth, Uv, Uz…;
Va, Ve, Vë, Vi, Vo, Vu, Vy, Vd, Vgj, Vj, Vl, Vll, Vr…;
Xa, Xe, Xë, Xi, Xo, Xu…;
Xha, Xhe, Xhë, Xhi, Xho, Xhu, Xhy;
Ya,Ye, Yç, Yh, Yj, Yl, Yll, Yn, Yr, Ys, Ys, Yz…;
Za, Ze, Zë, Zi, Zo, Zu, Zy, Zb, Zd, Zg, Zgj, Zj, Zll, Zm, Zv;
Zha, Zhe, Zhë, Zhi, Zho, Zhu, Zhy, Zhb, Zhd, Zhdh, Zhg, Zhgj, Zhv.
... (data that are within these brackets [ ] explain how the words flow from the basic semantic units in different variations, but technically it is impossible to present examples of all the characters based) ... and hundreds of thousands of phoneme, morpheme, root, and other small units of semantic, which encounter within the 'nature of all languages' most recent, deriving from the so-called 'natural language' (the oldest language based).
To better understand how some parts of semantic units mentioned above, have penetrated language after language from prehistory until today, I will give a symbolic example clarification / deciphering / decoding of only one morpheme reported by Our language (such as tree / root), in those Japhetic (Japheth), Indo-(Arjan) European (Hami) and partly in the first sparks of what Semitic (Shemi):
First morpheme in the examples mentioned above, is "At"("Father") as substantial basis Shapes a linguistic concept and can not be divided further into smaller semantic units, in addition to sharing 'semiotics' of the letters of the answers again Albanian language ... which is a still more in-depth study and goes still deeper in time, since etymologic explanation of cross-cultural mythological characters before, the way of creating of mankind as MATA "Ma'at" - Ma / MAME / Mother and At/Father / tax ... - To remember that pelasgian mythology (in this case Egyptian) "says", Thot/ Idris / Enoch, who conveyed the divine word to teach mankind the religion and art construction, geometry ... was the brother of "Mat" astrological reference, or "god" of law and justice. Both these words, names or concepts (Thot and Mat), explained in the same context with the role they have played in mythology, as we understand today by the Albanian only. Also by Mat (measured) comes, comes word - "Mate mati k" ... which also has the same concept with semantic units without complications shared linguistic and still can be understood by all. From here Ma "thema" have derivative "thema/theme", which is a synthesis of means with a Mat(measured( and "Them"(Them/ to say...) ... Ma "tem" Atik, Thot-Tem/Them derivative, and so For more on ... in the wake of the creation of the first linguistic concepts through the Albanian language, from the hieroglyphs, kuniform ... can be read here Giuseppe Catapano, Granam Hancock & Robert Bauval, etc..
and we let you go back to sample "At" (father) consider and present how this concept Father / Daddy / Dad, is used as core in the languages of the latter antique people:
"at" – albanian;
π"ατ"έρας - New Greek;
f"at"her – English;
v"at"er – German;
p"at"er – Mikenian;
ta"at" – Estonian;
t"at"ă – Romanian;
"at"ya – Hungarian;
"at"a – Azerbaijani;
"at"hair – Irish;
"ta"d – Velsh;
pi"tā" – Hindi;
ai"ta" – Basque;
ta"at"to – Finisht;
t"at"ko - south Slavs;
"от"ец – Russian;
p"ad"re - Italian;
v"ad"er-Dutch;
f"ad"er – Swerdish;
p"ad"re – Spanish;
v"ad"er – Afrcian;
p"ad"eri/pende"ta" – Indonesian;
t"at"ang – Filipian;
ph"át" minh - Vietnam... ... and so on up to Semitic, onwards.
___
So, the basis of formation of a word, seen in lower part of her that makes sense. Our speaker come to explain the smaller divisions of names with meaning in itself, especially the Indo-European languages ​​(as a larger group).

All living languages, especially their largest group, Indo-European ones, lead/guide/ determine the direction to the Albanian language, Albanian language leads to building codes, which (according to Egyptian albanolog Mathieu Aref) has no genesis connection with any other language (p.240-"Albania"). So we speak a language that is created without any previous model, born together with the development of mankind and is suprising the fact that "today's Albanian language has been preserved almost intact during more than 30 centuries (since beginning of the invasion of Indo-European) in the highlands of old Europe [science maintains that the natives living in the mountains (being retrieved from invasions), while in fields newcomers] and above all, those of the Dinaric Alps "(p.435 ibid) and thus attains to explain a large number of Etruscan words, Thracian, Greek, Latin, Basque, Armenian, Celtic, Romanian, etc.. "(ibid f.559).


In the context of the topic:
Zeus<>Zot; Zot in albanian is God in english
Zues/Dias... “Di” {Di~dit~diell~dias(Zeus)~d(r)it/(r-reze)... (Di>Knowledge... Dit>Day... Diell>Sun... Iell/Hyell/Ill/Yll>Star... [Hyjni, Hyu, Hyj, Yj, Hyll, Yll, Ill… Yllirians]... D(r)it>Light... (r)reze... Ar>Gold... Ar> loam... Ar(God in old albanian)...
Also, in albanian language is synthesized the double meaning in ethymology of Zeus/Dias, in twice meaning, from the good side(Zeus/Zot>God) and from the bad side Dias/Di(j)all/Dejall/Dexhall>Devil...

This homonym is transmited and in other latter languages of the antiquity:
For example in German
Diell nämlich Sonne
Djal nämlich Sohn

Slavic:
Diell znaci Sonce
Djal znaci Sin
...
"...Di– (earlier Diw–). This root also shows up in "Latin", which in fact is ALBANIAN {Di~dit~diell~dias(zeus)~d(r)it/(r-reze)...} di is “day”, borrowed into English in words like diurnal. Closely related to these words is Indo-European *deiwos “god”, which shows up, among other places, in the name of the Old English god Tiw in Modern English Tuesday, “Tiw's day...”
_____________________________________________
Zeus is a comletely unusual noun in "Greek", having both a stem Z n–(as in the philosopher Zeno's name) and a stem Di– (earlier Diw–). In the Iliad prayers to Zeus begin with the vocative form Zeu pater, “ Comparative philology has revealed that the “sky” word refers specifically to the bright daytime sky, as it is derived from the root meaning “to shine.” This root also shows up in ""Latin""(which in fact is ALBANIAN (dita) di s “day,” borrowed into English in words like diurnal. Closely related to these words is Indo-European *deiwos “god,”which shows up, among other places, in the name of the Old English god Tiw in Modern English Tuesday, “Tiw's day.” *Deiwos is also the source of Latin d vus “pertaining to the gods,” whence English divine and the Italian operatic diva, and deus, “god,” whence deity. The sun is considered a normal star but differently to the night stars it is seen as the DAY STAR.. Gen 1:14 calls the sun a sign for day. The Moon is called a lesser light to rule the night. In the myth the sun 'dies' in the evening and rises in the morning. Remember the eclipse accompanying Jesus' death on the cross?
_____________________________________________
The corresponding Albanian word zot means God, lord, gentleman, master. No wonder, that the publication of Copernicus’s “The Revolutions” had an immediate political consequence; it strengthened the claims of all monarchs of Europe to absolute power.
_____________________________________________
Zeus has been at all the times simbolizing the SUN and the Indo-European ancestor of Zeus was a God of the bright daytime sky *Dieuo and *deiuo ("the day time, a shining sky") or a sunny day. DIELLI in Albanian means sun, ZEUS and SUN. Great altar of Zeus pf Pergamon in Asia Minor, is described in Revelations as the site of “Satan's seat” (Rev. 2:12-13). Later used as a model for one of Hitler's rostrums. Emperor Hadrian who destroyed Jerusalem and its Temple finished great Temple of Zeus, the Olympian, called Olympieum, in Athens in 131, and initiated cult of his gay lover Antinuous centered on his villa in Tivoli (kind of an early Vatican).
_____________________________________________
The Albanian lind (sun) and pjell (p.t polla, *polli) are synonims to each-other. This last one is the root of the noun APOLLO.
_____________________________________________
- Gods were called in Albanian HYJNI
which derived from YJE stars
- She-Goat of Zeus Above Albanian Flag...
_____________________________________________

Reference:
http://thescincedelusion.blogspot.com/2010/04/religion-paraded-as-science_19.html
For skeptics or uninformed people:
... for albanian language, origin, race, culture:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=23767&id=100001133356751&l=5e6b160e5a
__________________________________________________ _________________
"...Hyginus is supported by Pliny who states positively in his Natural History that the FIRST LATIN ALPHABET WAS A PELASGIAN ONE..."

"...the Muse mother of Evander the Arcadian, ...who adapted the Pelasgian alphabet to the Latin..."

"...Orpheus is recorded by Diodorus to have used the Pelasgian alphabet..."
Referencë:
THE WHITE GODDES
http://www.americanneopaganism.com/The-White-Goddess.pdf
_________________
Gaius Plinius Secundus, (23-79 e.s.)
VII 56(57),
"The first alphabet is created by Illyrians and Roman’s writing is taken from Illyrians."

"The first that brought the Alphabet into Latium or Italy, were the Pelasgians. (Pliny the Elder (Gaius Plinius Secundus) wrote in Book VII, chapter 56 concerning letters"
_____
http://soul-of-the-pillar.blogspot.com/2010/11/pelasgians-and-etruscansgreek-alphabet.html
It is interesting to note that many scholars, rightly, could not determine or Generalized Albanian alone or as part of a group of languages. Once some think that it's Centum, once as SATEM (in fact it serves as a link between these groups, it is a more proof that it stands on above these groups), somtimes of Illyrian origin, Thracian, Dacian, Etruscan, Celtic, Frigian, Hitite or sometimes as the oldest branch of the Indo-European, sometims pre-proto-Indo-European sometimes Anatolian, Paleo-Balkan language sometimes, etc.. Also, this approach are mixet more from langauge "artifacts" that will be noted from Egypt, Middle East, Caucasus, Illyrian peninsula, Apenin ... all around the Mediterranean, to the newer languages (just around the triangular base towards circulated / world civilization interact, the surprisingly marked with a equal sides distance between Dodona of pelasgian Zeus, Ararat - rebirth of humanity-the ark of Noah / Nuh and the Great Pyramid in Egypt. (In this context, read "The oracle of Dodona" by Maksim Zotaj or http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/egyptgeodesy.htm).
This confusing approach purified when proved the direct connection beetwen Pelasgian and todays Albanian language, as extract of subsequent cultures and peoples. Just like the Pelasgian languge is distributed as element in subsequent cultures and peoples, synonymous with this concept is when we say that in that period are distributed the Albanian language roots in those languages what we can find even today.
Language scheme, from italian linguist and anthropologist Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66233&l=7cb8960819&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146066&l=a7c909f8b8&id=100001133356751

Pelasgian alphabet:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66315&l=f6d4521ff3&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148670&l=f01e5fe94d&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66143&l=7b3d0c7a42&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66138&l=a86eb322d8&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66140&l=3711081fd8&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66173&l=c44dbf0be2&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=298333&l=b113ea1e72&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66141&l=82eb0edf79&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=298334&l=9d1c6972e0&id=100001133356751

Etruscan - Albanian - English - Vocabulary
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=68996&l=5795be8676&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69017&l=ceb338d776&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69018&l=a82de2194c&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69019&l=27116aced9&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69020&l=cc60a41bea&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69021&l=7a09b6e9ce&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69022&l=6aafa23683&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69023&l=42ccdc766b&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=69024&l=86294d8b98&id=100001133356751

Homer Language
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66164&l=62b6e46d8b&id=100001133356751

There are thousands of "pre-greek" words, what they translate today in new greek language, but they are the same in albanian laguage even today !
Here some of them:
pre greek(pelasgian)----greek<>albanian-----albanian (or pelasgian)
αμας amas-------------------imitera=nena------------ama, nena, ema...
αταρ-atar----------------------tote-ateher----------------atar, ateher...
αυς-ais---------------------------aftos=ai----------------------ai, aj...
αναιρον-aneron------------oniro=enderr-----------aneron, enderron...
αφαρ-afar---------------sti stigmi=ne moment ---------afar, afer...
βασαι-vishe------------------iselthise=vije--------------vishe, vijshe...
βαν--van-------------------porevude-shkojn-------------van, vajten...
βαριον-barion------------provaton=deleve------------barion, bariu...
βασκ-bask----------paralila porevute=ecin paralel---------bask, bashk...
βη-vi---------------------prevome=eci,vij-shkoj------------vi, vij...
βραχαι-vrahe-------------psofise=ngordhi--------------vra, vrahe...
βριτος-britos------------------etos=viti---------britmi (britmi i parë shtatori, fillimi i vitit-Frank Bardhi)…
βυσαι-vishe-------------kripse-fshihe, mbuloje-------veshje, vishe...
γαναι-gjane---------------periptizi=afersisht----------gjane, ngjane...
γουνον-gjunon-----------gonatizi-gjunjezon------gjunon, gjunon (geg)...
γραος-graos----------------gjini-gra, grua----------------graos, gra…
διζα-dhiza-------------------katsíka=dhia----------------dhiza, dhia…
εικειν-ikin---------------ipohorun=terhiqen--------------ikin, iki...
εντυε-endie-----------parasqevazi=endi,endje-----------endie...
ερδαι-erdhe------------------elthe=erdhe-------------------erdhe...
ετας-etas----------------------patir=babai-------------------etas, eti...
εβροεντα-evroenda-------skotini=e errta---------e vroenda, e vrejtura...
ευροπη-evropi----skotini,qe hora tis dhisis=e errta edhe vendi i perendimit-------evro- evront e erret...
ζει-zi-------------------------flegji-pervelon-----------------zien, zi...
Ζωτεαττας-Zoteatas---Apolloni=Perendia--------Zoteatas=Zoti Atë, Ati Zoti...
κιελλι-qielli------------------uranos=qielli----------------qielli, qielli...
κορτειν-kortin--------------kurion=korrin--------------kortin, korrin...
κρειον-krion----------------vasilias=mbreti-------------Krieon, Kryeja...
κρουναι-krune----------------pigji=burim--------------krune, krun-kroj...
μαλα-mala------------------------ori=male-------------------mala, male...
μενειν-menin----------thymós,orgí-zemerimin-------menin, meni, merin...
πλαγαν-plagan-----------------pligji=plage--------------plagan, plaga...
πραιναι=prene--------------prionizi=sharron-------------prene, pren...
etc,etc...
* The words of the so-called 'pre-Greek' or Pelasgian, are taken from the book of "Hesychii Alexandrini lexicon" - Kurt Latte, Peter Allan Hansen.

• Pelasgian inscriptions that can be read only by the Albanian language:
http://soul-of-the-pillar.blogspot.com/2010/11/pelasgians-and-etruscansgreek-alphabet.html
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66147&l=a2d07351ee&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66176&l=941d1cff0a&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148823&l=72d720898d&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148153&l=151ac01fc3&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148814&l=1e89c95237&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=148835&l=f7d2429502&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66166&l=e8a35ea43f&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66167&l=e47d657233&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66179&l=dcc9749043&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66155&l=e023af7946&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66156&l=4ca67cc19f&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66180&l=6c34103025&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66174&l=54f292af81&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66172&l=a6abc2bd9d&id=100001133356751
Etc, etc...
Some old maps:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247849&l=2734f5e6e0&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247850&l=d6812c2f15&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247851&l=c4edafe09e&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=247852&l=b330d5c0c3&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146065&l=ba836eb60a&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146067&l=c4ad7394f9&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=146075&l=59a5b17f41&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=139504&l=95cb943dd0&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143994&l=1b448a87a4&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=144000&l=107f963504&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143986&l=bbc34ea350&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143987&l=8d1a09c5c7&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=147992&l=41ef8f5e9d&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143988&l=45366cc727&id=100001133356751
The three Shkypetar States, Illyria, Epirus and Macedonia, rose against Rome…-“Albania, the foundling state of Europe”, Wadham Peacock 1914).
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=145979&l=482e979db0&id=100001133356751
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=147962&l=6de6f6c8a9&id=100001133356751
Herodotus maps:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/363506/2196/Herodotus-map-of-the-world
http://www.old-map-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/World_Map_Herodotus.jpg
http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00362/images/HerodotusWorld.jpg
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=143990&l=62091440a5&id=100001133356751

* Illyrian..............................Albanian.... ........................English:
atsar....................................... acar ...................................frost
ask.................................. …..ashkë ..................................
kapa...................................... kapa ..................................catch
kekja.................................….keqja ..................................badly
nasor............................... nesër(nesra) ........................tomorow
apa...........................................pa ..................................whithout
awalaka............................ …flaka .................................flame
laja..........................................lehj e ...................................yelp
wrask......................... .vras(rrah,lendoj) ....................injure(beat)
stana.................................... shtaza .................................brute
matja.......................... …matja,mas,mat ......................measure
dela..................................…..djal .....................................boy
balta..................................... balta ...................................mud
berja.................................. berja,bije ................................fall
de.....................................…...dje ..................................yesterday
smerka............................…mjekra ................................beards
tsela..................................... tsjella ................................brought
wet........................................vjet ..............................year(or last year)
dedr..............................djath(nga gjedh) .......................cheese
esmi......................................jemi ....................................we are
melita.................................. mjalt ...................................honey
amal.............................amal,amël,ëmbë l ................….sweetly
tamal............................ .tamël,qumsht ...................... ..milk
breda.............................. ….bredh ................................loiter
perenda...............................brenda ...............................inside
entenda........................... …denda .................................ply
ambiledza ........................e mblodha ........................I gathered
trempa ..................................tremb ...............................scare
deta.......................................djathta ...............................right
mems ....................................mish ..................................meat
ambi ......................................mbi ...................................above
binda ....................................binda ...............................convince
bugt .......................................butë ....................................soft
buzja .....................................buza .....................................lip
druw ..................................dru(druits) ..........................wood(tree)
kuri ........................................guri ....................................stone
mater ....................................motër ..................................sister
skap ......................................shkop ..................................stick
stanj .......................................shtoj ...................................attach
lad...........................................lodh ....................................tire
mats .......................................mos ....................................don't
ngraj .....................................ngroht .................................warm
plat ..........................................plot …................................a lot
tsensmi .................................themi .................................we say
blora............................ ….blert(blerim) ......................green(verdure)
njas ........................................ngjesh ................................compress
dija ........................................di(dija) ........................I knew(knowledge)
dita ..........................................dita ....................................day
nat ...........................................natë ...................................night
pija .........................................pi(pija) ...............................drink
trutja ........................................trusja …............................I press
ngruda ...................................ngrydha ............................I crowd
krupa ........................................kripa .................................salt
buma .........................................bima ................................plant
busht .........................................bisht ..................................tail
nbunj ..........................................mbij ................................flourish
muja........................................... miza ...............................fly(insect)
suj ............................................shij(s hoj) ..............................rain
lais ...............................................les h ...................................fur
waina ..........................................vera .................................summer
deimen .................................dimen(dimer) ........................winter
ranja ........................................rronja(rro j) ........................lives(dwell)
tausnja ....................................thaja (thanja) …...................dry up
deur ..............................................deri ....................................to
laus ...............................................las ht ..................................old
laidna ............................................e lë ...................................leave
dora ..............................................dora ..................................hand
kranja...........................................k yeja ..................................head
mosnj ..........................................muaj .................................month
kousnja .......................................quaja ................................I named
tsanja .......................................çaja(thyej a) ............................break
Prij.............................................. ...prij ..................................guide,lead
pari............................................pa ri (i pari).......................... first, lead
para............................................. para ............................... pre, proto, before
per............................................... ..për .................................... pro
puta.............................................p yeta .................................I asked
grawa ..........................................grua ...................................women
griwika .......................................gryka ..................................nozzle
mbiwela .....................................mbylla ................................closed
leip ................................................ly p .......................................beg
krim ............................................krimb ....................................worm
wrip .............................................rryp .......................................belt
wara .............................................ura ......................................bridge
Veglia .........................................Vegla ......................................Tool
rhinon .......................................re (reja) ............................... clouds
sica ...........................................thika,s pata ............................knife/sword
Didi .............................................Dede ......................................Dupe
amic.............................................. mik ........................................friend
est ................................................ë shtë .......................................is
cael ..............................................qiel l ........................................sky
Havá .................................hava(qiell),paraj së..... .............. heaven(+paradise)
creare .........................................krijoj ..................................make, create
Vendum ....................................Vendi ....................................the place
Vician ..........................................Vise .....................................locations
Malontum ...............................Mal,malet ..............................Mountain
Dyrrach Dyrrë.........................derë,dyer......... ... ................ seaport, door
Ora ............................................ora,ko ha ..............................the hour, the time
fimia ...........................................fëmija ........................................child
Dassi .......................................... Dash .........................................Aries
Math .................................... Math(madh).................................. great
Hyll ........................................Hyll(yll,i ll) .....................................star
barda .........................................bardha .......................................white
Bardhyll ..............................bardh+yll(us,star) .......................white star
Bardibal ..................................bardh+ball ...........................white forehead
Dardhania............................... Dardh+an .................................fruit+side
Dalma ........................................Delmne ...................................fold,cattle
… Most of these Illyrian words, were registered before the first century, therefore, before the Roman period.
Here the etymology of some words Thracian (Dacian part, as a derivative of Thracian), of which, in this electronic dictionaries (official) http://dacia.8m.net/Diverse/Dictionar_al_limbii_trace/dictionar_al_limbii_trace.html (http://dacia.8m.net/Diverse/Dictionar_al_limbii_trace/dictionar_al_limbii_trace.html), were only 5-6 in albanian, and whith the first look i saw all the others in albanian also:
* bur, buris (boris) - 'man' [Alb. burrė 'man']
* datan (datas) - 'place, settlement' [Alb. datė 'place, settlement]
* drenis - 'deer' [Alb. dre, dreni 'deer']
* ermas - 'fierce, mad' [Alb. jerm 'furious, mad']
* mezéna - 'a horseman' [Alb. mes, mezi 'stallion', Roman. (substrat) mīnz 'stallion']
* pupa - 'beans' or 'hill' (?) [Alb. pupė 'hill' or Lith. pupa 'beans' or]
* rera - 'stones, stony ground' (from an earlier *lera) [Alb. lerė, -a 'stones, fallen stones']
* titha - 'light, radiance' [Alb. ditė 'day' morning, ‘day', Greek titó' 'morning glow]
* an(a) - 'at, on' [Alb. anë/në atë anë "side/direction", Avest. ana 'along', Greek aná 'at, along', Goth. ana 'at, towards']
* balios - 'white', [IE *bhel-] Alb. Bardh/Balosh
* berga(s) - 'hill, bank' [Alb. Breg/Brigje , Old-Icel. berg 'mountain', Old-HighGerman berg, German Berg 'mountain', Old-Bulg. [email protected], New-Bulg. brjag 'bank, coast'].
* bredas - 'pasture-ground' [Alb. Bredh (Brigjet) 'wander', Russ. bred, bredina 'pasture', bresti, bredu 'to cross by a ford', Balt. (Zhemait.) RN Bred-upja].
* bor - 'mountain' [Alb. Borë (në maje të malit), in Huper-boreoi 'those living behind the mountain'; IE *Hegwr- 'hill, mountain']
* bria - 'town' [Alb, në gjuhen shqipe shume shpesh perdoret si component shtes ne emërimet e vendeve “ia”, Strab.; Steph. Byz. under the word of Messembria. Both authors state the word was Thracian. It is often found as a second component of Thracian settlement names, for example: Messembria, Poltymbria, Sélymbria, Skedabria, etc. The Thracian 'bria' is related to the Toch. A ri, B riye 'town (a refuge on a hill)' – from the IE wrijá]
* dero, dur - 'a stockade' [Alb. Derë (portë, që zakonisht është bërë nga druri); [IE *dhwer- 'a door, a gate']
* desa(s), disa(s) - 'deity, god' [Alb. Di(as) quheshte ndryshe Zeusi (që rrjedh nga fjala Di/dij/drit); IE *deiwo-, Greek théos 'a god]
* dinga - 'fertile ground' [Alb. Drith(nga di/drit) dhe Ga (gan/gea-dheu), Latv. dinga 'fertile place', Old-Icel. dyngia 'dunghill']
* douro - 'strong' [Alb. Duro (behu i forte), Celt. *duro-]
* gava(s) - 'county, countryside' [Alb. Ose para greke gaia (dheu/toka) "Plasgia", pjell nga gia/gaia (dhea-u/toka), Goth. gawi 'county', Att. gé 'land, region']
* gesa - 'stork kingfisher' [Alb. resa/rosa, Old-Pruss. geeyse 'kingfisher', Latv. dzése 'heron, kingfisher'];
* iúras (=júras) - 'water, river' [Alb. ujra/juri(vend i lagesht), Lith. júra 'a sea', Old-Nord. úr 'drizzle'];
* kalsas 'dry, dried up' [Alb. kalbet/thahet/vyshket, Latv. kálst (-stu, -tu) 'to dry up, to wither'];
* ketri, ketre - 'four' [Alb. Katër/i katri; IE *kwetwores, Greek tetra 'four', Cymr. pedry- 'four-fold', Lith. keturi, Latv. c'etri, Bulg. c'etiri 'four'];
* kupsela - 'a heap, a hillock' [Alb. Kupë, Lith. kupse.lis 'heap, hillock'];
* kurp- 'to burrow'; [Alb/ korpë, Lith. kurpti (-i?) 'to burrow', Russ. korpat' 'to burrow'];
* lingas - 'depression, meadow'; [Alb. Lëngoj, por edhe me gjuhet tjera lidhet homonimi tjeter, lendinë; Lith. lénge 'low land', PN Linge, Bulg. [email protected] 'meadow']
* mér- 'large, great' [Alb. Mejr - me theksin te e-ja, thuhet për dicka "shume/e madhe", bjeri meejr... në gegnisht, IE mér-, Church Slavic personal name [email protected], Old-HighGerman Volk-már, Hlodo-már, Old-Icel. már 'big'].
* musas - 'moss, mould' [Alb. myshk; Old-HighGerman, Anglo-Saxon mos 'moss, swamp', German Moss 'moss', Church-Slav. [email protected]@ 'moss', Lith. musai, pl. 'mould on yoghourt'].
* para, phara - 'settlement, village' [Alb. fara, vendbanim (fara jonë/fisi jonë/njerzit tonë/vendbanimi jonë)... from the IE *(s)porá as 'village'].
* paurakis - 'small' [Alb. piciruk; Latin paucus 'small']
* pi - 'beside, more'; [Alb. Pi, nga gegnishtja- apo prej]
* pinon - 'a drink' [Alb. pi/pije/pina/pijnë- IE *poi-, 'to drink', Latin pibo 'I drink', Slavic *piti 'to drink'].
* pras – (resp. *praus) - 'to wash, to splash, to bedew'; [Alb. prashit(kultivoj), poashtu edhe homonimi tjeter Alb. spërkat, Lith. prausti 'to wash, to sprinkle', Latv. prauslat 'to splash", besprinkle', Old-Ind. prusnó'ti 'to splash'];
* raka(s) - 'eroded place, a gully' [Alb. rëke, rëre, Lith. rakti 'to burrow'];
* rumba(s) - 'edge; rapids'; [Alb. rumba apo kërcej, Lith. rumbas 'periphery', Latv. rumba 'waterfall, rapids'].
* siros - 'a granary' [Alb. Silos, hambar ne gegnisht]
* strumá, strumón - 'current, river' [Alb. strum, vije qe krijohet nga mocali, apo gropë e thellë ne lum, apo vend ku bie uji me shumë fuqi), Old-HighGerman stroum, German Strom 'current' river', Lith. sraumuo, -ens 'fast current']
* sura (zura) - 'current, stream' [Alb. Zura, kapa, Old-Ind. sirá 'current. stream'].
* taru - 'spear'; [Alb. dru, trung, Greek dóry 'tree' and 'spear', Hett. taru- 'tree, trees', Old-Ind. dáru- 'tree']
* tranas - 'rotting' [Alb. tretem/tretje, Lith. RN Tranys, trene.ti 'to rot, to decompose'];
* traus - 'to break, to crumble' [Alb. trus (shtyp), poashtu edhe tra, Lith. traušti 'to break, to crumble', traušus 'brittle', the Latv. trauss, trausls 'brittle, fragile', Old-Russ. [email protected] 'lazy; sad'];
* tri 'three' [Alb. tri, tre, IE *treyes, *trí 'three']
* tund - 1. 'to push, to knock' - 2. 'river' [ 1.Alb. tund (shkund), 2Alb. tendë, 1. Latin tundó, -ere 'to push, to knock' Old-Ind. tundaté 'to push'. 2. Old-Icel. ?und 'river'].
* turm - 'a run, a flight' [Alb. turr, turrej (sulmoj,vrapoj)/turma, Old-Ind. drámati 'to run', Greek drómos 'a run'].
* udra(s) - 'otter' [Alb. Hidra, hider; IE *wed-, *wod-, Old-Ind. udráh 'water animal', Avest. udra- 'otter', Greek hydros, Old-HighGerman ottar, Lith. údra, Bulg. vidra 'otter'].
* udrénas; úkas; upa; urda(s); uskuutos... Alb. të gjitha këto koncepte kane te bejne me U-jin
* vair (as/us) - 'spinning' [Alb. varëse (tjerrje), Lith. vairus, vairas 'spinning', Swed. vírr 'a spiral']
* verza(s) - 'a barrier used for fishing [Alb. Verza; dam', Latv. varza 'dam'].
* zan 'a clan, a family' [Alb. zan/zen/nxen/gen, IE *g'en- 'to give birth, a kin'];
* zenis, zenés - 'born, born in' [Alb. zënes, që nxe/ë, gjenezë, genes in the Greek personal name of Dio=génes, from the IE *g'en- 'to give birth' in the Old-Latin geno 'to produce, to give birth'].
* zi - 'god' [Alb. Zot, shortened from ziu-, zia- and similar, IE *deiwo- 'sky god', Albanian/Greek Zeus];

Hittite words
Albanian words

Ni
Ata
At-i
Asht
Asht-i
Mat
Mat-ënj
Maje
Manj
Njoj
Njoh
Wit
Vit-i
Ane
Anë
Gjun
Gju
Qend
Qind
Ili
Yll
Bait
Baj
Et
Etë
Est
Është
Gurta (qytet)
(i) Gurtë
Lule
Lule
Dor
Dorë
Mial
Mjaltë
Wesha
Veshje
Urim
Urim
Shur
Shur
Turija
Turi
Nakt
Natë
Ara
Arë-a
Shkal
Shkallmoj
Sojoti
Sitë
Hur
Ur-i
Lehit
Lehtë
Lissi
Lis
(Hittites wors are taken from the book Tat parlava alabnese- author Giuseppe Catapano)
• Here are some other hittite words, which I found to be translated into English, but in fact remain in the original Albanian still today:

Hittite words
Albanian words
Imme
Nime (nji mend – vërtetë)
Ash
Ash (Ash, Osh, A, O - është)
Awi
Avitu, avejtu (a vjen, afrohu)
Wer
Vejrm (virri, piskati)

So... this was only only within the framework of linguistic... the same situation is whith other components of the CULTURE (in the broad sense of the word)... and now, what is common denominator of these cultures above... of course Pelasgian... what's why so many scientist came to the conclusion that Albanians are a remnant of the original ancient Pelasgians

* "The first step of liquidating a nation is to delete his memory. Destroy its books, its culture, its history. Then pick someone to write new books, create a new culture and, to invent a new history. Before you spend too long the nation will forget what it is and what was"
* "A nation of sheep Will beget a government of Wolves" - Edward R. Morrow (1908-1965)
* "The true history of mankind will be written only when Albanians participate in it's writing" - Maximilian Lambertz, Albanien erzählt: ein Einblick in die albanische Literatur (Berlin 1956)
* "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
________________________
+
Dielli
http://zeus10.webs.com/
Dielli (2)
http://zeus10.wordpress.com/
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Can someone proceed whith the topic now...

this is too much for me to answer because its confusing in what you presented....but, the Dardanians ( who you claim where ancient Albanians ) are not related to the Illyrians.
Dardanians where from Anatolia and Illyrians where not, just because after the migration of dardanians into the balkans and the being assimilated into illyrian customs and some language does not allow the right of Albanians to claim Illyrian heritage. If this is the case then Slavs who did this to Illyrians as well can also claim Illyrian ancestory. Is this not wrong?

Yes, you are correct the venetian republic used Albanian Stradioti ( light Cavalry) in their army as mercenaries. So did Naples and the french use them.
Yes, the venetian republic safely placed some albanians who fled from ottoman occupation into the eastern Istrian peninsula.
Yes, the Bua surname is a great name, and is found in friuli region.
Yes, castrioti had alliances with Venice and Naples, but also realise that the Albanians only started occupying the coastal areas of modern Albania after 1430. This is why Albania never had a fleet or seafaring people.


I did find the people called mallea ( what I interpreted) as the Molossians. So the article you presented claims Albanians came from molossian people .

Besir Bajrami
25-09-11, 05:17
I agree that this is just too much for you.

Molossians were an Illyrian tribe... Illyrians were in south-east or Asia minor too... read more about them... Dardanians were the heart of the Thraco-Illyrian culture... Troy was Illyrian (Dardanian... or Pelasgian in wider sence of the word)...
So, when someone found any connection of albanians whith dacians, they immediately reach the conclusion and they restrict the origin only whith that tribe, or whith that part of ancient culture... then, someone else will find connection of albanians with Molossians, thant they will claim that albanians came from molossian people and that's all... someone else will find connection of albanians whith Dardanians... and thy will restrict again only in that part... someone else will find connection of albanians with etruscians, and they will say it in their limited way... someone else will find connection of albanians with macedonians, thracians, and with all tens of Illyrian tribes one by one... and they will claim again separated about every one of them, like the only presenters of Albanian origin... and after the summary of all these information, by all scientific components that it is necessary... than you will understand the conclusions of thousands of scientists, about Albanian autochthony and their direct origin from the Pelasgians, who are all connected whith these latter cultures.


P.S: (You see that I have the patience to talk whith someone like you, who spit upon the scientific data such as the beautiful inscription above, that for you they are only rubbish...)
Try to understand the circumstances of that region, or of these people, why they whith centuries have to be retreated in the mountains, than speak about the sea :)

zanipolo
25-09-11, 06:37
I agree that this is just too much for you.

Molossians were an Illyrian tribe... Illyrians were in south-east or Asia minor too... read more about them... Dardanians were the heart of the Thraco-Illyrian culture... Troy was Illyrian (Dardanian... or Pelasgian in wider sence of the word)...
So, when someone found any connection of albanians whith dacians, they immediately reach the conclusion and they restrict the origin only whith that tribe, or whith that part of ancient culture... then, someone else will find connection of albanians with Molossians, thant they will claim that albanians came from molossian people and that's all... someone else will find connection of albanians whith Dardanians... and thy will restrict again only in that part... someone else will find connection of albanians with etruscians, and they will say it in their limited way... someone else will find connection of albanians with macedonians, thracians, and with all tens of Illyrian tribes one by one... and they will claim again separated about every one of them, like the only presenters of Albanian origin... and after the summary of all these information, by all scientific components that it is necessary... than you will understand the conclusions of thousands of scientists, about Albanian autochthony and their direct origin from the Pelasgians, who are all connected whith these latter cultures.


P.S: (You see that I have the patience to talk whith someone like you, who spit upon the scientific data such as the beautiful inscription above, that for you they are only rubbish...)
Try to understand the circumstances of that region, or of these people, why they whith centuries have to be retreated in the mountains, than speak about the sea :)

LOL ....ROFL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molossians

People find strange things in the mist of their nationalistic minds

LINK where molossians are illyrians

Besir Bajrami
25-09-11, 08:46
Wikipedia again :S
You just translated that piece of book, who tell us that Molossians are dissolved in today's Albanians, and their name in albanian is Mountain, or Malesia... Mountain people... they are connected whith ancient Macedonians (who where Thraco-Illyrian extract)... also, latter Molossians were colonized (for someone Hellenized) by hellens, that's why wikipedia call them greeks, but you should read ancient writters for these questions, and dont take ancient world as a greek monopoly. Open your mind...

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&prmdo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=Molossians+were+Illyrian+tribe&pbx=1&oq=Molossians+were+Illyrian+tribe&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=121888l122520l9l122948l5l4l0l0l0l3l576l1461 l3-1.0.2l3l0&prmdo=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=92f4c9932522fda1&biw=1024&bih=602
If you divide the Illyrian from Epirotes, than Molossians were epirotes tribe... so Epirotes (just like Illyrians and Macedonians) are Pelasgian branches, different from the Greeks. You have to understant who were Illyrians in a wider sense of the word... you have a lot of info in last pages from international scientist and don't make me to repeat them... just read and dont be lazy, to say that "these are to much for me" :P
By the way, the word "Epirot" is translated as today "Albanian" by all free scientist (for example: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/60554_129389743775470_100001133356751_144013_15052 8_n.jpg )
+ Molossi -They were the most powerful of the Epirote tribes. The Molossians were a dynastic tribe very much in control of Epirus and, at times, controlled southern Illyria as far north as the city of Epidamnus in central Illyria.
http://www.ancientillyrians.com/tribes.html

+ Illyrian tribes: http://kuksiskupialba.tripod.com/kuksi/IliriaFISETantike.JPG
__________________________________________________ __________________________________



The topic is about albanian folk similarities (specifically Fustanella) whith other old cultures of Europe or Mediterranean, that have been able to maintain the authenticity of the old culture of mankind what was in common (like one... or "pelasgian culture")
That's why I have sketched here information of other components of the albanian culture, what still are preserved as in ancient times... like the language (page 4 & 7), also symbols (page 5), costumes (page 5 & 6), dances (page 6)... and no one here did not quote these information, to reply me against, or pro... so, now let's see about this other ancient symbol... and again, is beautifully preserved, only by the Albanians (as Self-isolated people) for centuries.

Albanian white qeleshe or plis (just like todays arvanites are named as greeks, in the same way, the old pelasgian culture in ancient times, they call it greek).

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2148/skullcappileosmg7.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/72620_149522735095504_100001133356751_236251_80719 12_n.jpg

1=Odysseus (in albanian Odhisti/Udhisti... traveler)
2=Uliks
3=Odysseus
4=Hefest
5=Theti (deity of the sea and water, today in albanian Deti=the sea), runs to pull weapons of Achilles, to "divine" Hefest. All the three have the todays albanian plis/qeleshe in their head (Rome show about Iliad at Colosse-2007, the Archaeological Museum of Naples)
6=Hefest
7=Illyrian type of a plaque found in today's Croatia near Dubrovnik
8=Poseidon
9=Through the Etruscans (Pelasgians), the subsequent Roman people named "pileus libertatis" (plis of freedom), here presented in the currency printed by the Roman Brutus after Caesar's murder.
10=Antique statues in Labëri (also similar to this:http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs938.snc4/75144_150307515014258_100001050301375_280277_30408 52_n.jpg)
11=Ajax & Achilles playing Draughts

* Starting from the Plis/qeleshe of ZEUS (Zojsi/Dias) up to Bardulus [(white - star Dardanian/Bardhanian Bardh(white) yll(star)], all these are symbols of freedom to Albanians, you can see this link for more: http://picasaweb.google.com/115092624652417221864/AlbanaisAutochtoneIlllyriens#5201696537464102946
Here we have Zeus:
"A19 SG#0671 Bruttium, Lokroi Epizephyrioi, possibly from the time of Pyrrhus. AE 20. 300-268 BC. First part of 3rd Cent BC. Conjoined busts of the Dioskouroi right wearing PILEI - Zeus enthroned holding patera nd Sceptre, cornucopiae behind, LOKRWN. SNG Cop 1895. HN Italy 2399. Sear 671. 4.9g."
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs088.snc1/4625_212622845353_135633570353_7352649_5347599_n.j pg

Here we have Pyrro whith his people with plis/qeleshe and crown from the sacred oak of Dodona
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs108.snc1/4625_212622595353_135633570353_7352632_3221756_n.j pg (http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs108.snc1/4625_212622595353_135633570353_7352632_3221756_n.j pg)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/156988_149549311759513_100001133356751_236337_1949 384_n.jpg

To keep cultural traditions and in proving that to whose people (culture) he belong, he is identified with the eagle and all the other symbolism (like the two horns that appear in this picture) that derive from Thot (Idris)>Deukalion (Dhulkarnejn)> Troyans> Alexander the great> and through him, to Castrioti, who besides that inherited the same culture, but he kept the figure of Pyrrhus in his sword too:
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3590/shpadaskenderbeyg0.jpg




Let's proceed:
Ancient artifact from Vinca culture (or Goddess on the throne) and modern (still ancient:) albanian dress from Kosovo (part of ancient Dardania)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284282_214344465279997_100001133356751_528526_3148 77_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185215_214344501946660_100001133356751_528527_4863 46_n.jpg


If we pay attention to the tradition, even today in albanian culture, when the girl become e women, when she get married (albanians get married only in Thursday and Sunday), she have to stay just like this, in that position (folded), like the mysterious artifact there.
Thursday is womens day. For the bride they say: "U bë Nuse Venuse" - "You become e Bride a Venus"... alb.:"Ve"- eng.:"Egg" - alb.:"Nuse" - eng.:"bride"... Venus)
Also, when in "the first night" she have to stay whith her man, tradition requires that she have to sit in the symbol of the half of Cosmic Egg (albanian white hood - "Plis" or "Qeleshe", is only a man cap), turned back, and to put in the head the another half, just like the symbol of Zeus here:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084585705986_100001133356751_66198_764216 9_n.jpg


So, like the seed that came from the Cosmic Egg or the Egg of the Worlds and brought the life, and the Bride "emerges" from the Egg and bring life in that house.

In fact the entire albanian national dress represents that pelasgic religion, or symbolizes God/Almighty Creator.
Even the sleeves of the dress (Guna) that don't have to be wear but to connect behind, symbolizing comb / wings of divinity. For old religion (or better to say, from that original religion, what was copied latter from other cultures, especially from the Semitic peoples) says that when the Creator created life from the cosmic egg/egg of worlds, he was presented with comb/wings ...
This kind of theory of creation is writen somehow and in the Bible indireclty in Genesis.
Here you can see the symbolism of Comb/divine wings in albanian dress:
http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137352&stc=1&d=1284081980


See more in page 5 in this topic about some other albanian national costumes and their symbolism:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page5


So, here we have this wonderful figure from the book of Artur Cook about Zues, who have two qeleshe/plis in above and below... Plis/qeleshe symbolizes the on half of the cosmic egg, from which "egg" God created all things, created life.

Otherwise, the Illyrians have used several types of hats/plis/qeleshe (fez-hat-cap-lumpy) similar to each other.
Dardanians have used round (or half circle) qeleshe, in use today by albanians in Kosovo. Dardania latter was from Nis (Naisus) to the Bylazora (Veles), Astipi (Shtibi), Skopje (Skupi), Tetovo (Oaeneum), Gostivar (Draudakum) ...
From mountain in southern Bukovik up to the Ohrid, Gostivar, Struga, Debar and to Mavrovo, have lived Penestians whith the capital Uscana (Kicevo), and this Illyrian tribe had flat plis/qeleshe, at the time of Skanderbeg is called Dibran, because was in use of all regions of Dibra. North Albania holds also flat plis/qeleshe but is much shorter from dibra region. Southern Albania holds the round plis/qeleshe but much longer than it from Dardanians (see 10) - Laberian plis/qeleshe.
Headgear that the Albanians be using the time of the ancient Illyrian-Pelasgians. White fez, kilt, tirqit, mintani with black braids, or Albanian xhubleta (4.000 years old at least), still alive ... Well, these are the Albanian original heritage , because no nation in the world has not previously used except Albanians and yet we have remained without any break tradition.


- Zeus-Poseiodn; Zues-Hades; Zeus
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/249970_179208238803053_100001416342755_521884_3294 05_n.jpg

- Dielli (Sun) and Merkuri (Hermes/Thot/Idris)
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260472_179208438803033_100001416342755_521887_6580 153_n.jpg

-This one os from Illyrian tribe PHRYGASE or Bryghians, aliie whith Troyans (not to say the Troyans itself)
http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105634&stc=1&d=1213317762

- Apollo
http://www.grisel.net/images/greece/Olympia79.JPG

-Here we have the famous apple, which fez Atlas whith qeleshe/plis in the head gives it to Hercules who hold the weight of the world with the help of Athens
http://www.grisel.net/images/greece/OlympiaHercules.JPG

- PATROCLES and ACHILES
http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/greeks/literature/pictures/patroclose.jpg

- Odysseus
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8356/394pxodysseuschiaramontoq7.jpg

- Collection Albani
http://i48.tinypic.com/5lth05.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2n8n9fn.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/spaeiq.jpg

Trojans
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy165/mushka_bucket/photo244.jpg

Trojans:
http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/13/54/17/87/568-od10.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110083992372712_100001133356751_66181_572771 9_n.jpg
This vase (where is Illyrian Kadmi whith qeleshe/plis) preserved in the Louvre Museum - Paris
Plis in lab variant, called a qeleshe, and usually has an little "antenna" on top, as Illyrian Kadmi in this very important artifact.

Kàstor (greek Κάστωρ, -ορος, lat. Castōr, -ŏris) e Pollùksi or Polideuks (greek Πολυδεύκης, -ου, lat. Pollūx, -ūcis) these two names are from Greek and Roman mythology, twin sons of Zeus and Ledia, known above all as "sons of Zeus", as well as the Kàstor
http://adrianoandellini.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/450px-campidoglio_-_dioscuri_all27alba_1050290.jpg?w=450&h=600

http://www.caravanserai-tours.com/images/libya/theatre_dioscuri.jpg

+ http://www.fotografo.to/to1/images/fullsize/piazza-castello-dioscuri-torino-IMG_0270.JPG

+ Ancient Macedonians http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs938.snc4/75144_150307515014258_100001050301375_280277_30408 52_n.jpg



Zeus, Athena and Hephastius
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110084582372653_100001133356751_66197_157141 3_n.jpg

...somewhere in the recesses of the Vatican!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/13462_110083659039412_100001133356751_66165_684951 7_n.jpg

S33.2 DIOSKOUROI

Museum Collection: Museo Archeologico Nazionale di Napoli, Naples, Italy
Catalogue Number: TBA
Title: "Dioscuri"
Class: Free-standing statue
Material: Marble
Height: --
Context: --
Original / Copy: --
Style: --
Date: --
Period: Imperial Roman
SUMMARY
One of a pair of statues, depicting the Dioskouroi twins, with travellers caps, chamlys capes and horse-heads by their feet
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/62925_130553873659057_100001133356751_148810_30540 70_n.jpg

Achille chez le roi Lycomede, Louvre museum
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/46886_128442423870202_100001133356751_139505_62775 91_n.jpg


Let's see somthing from books, because like I always do:
Encyclop℗edie M℗ethodique, Ou Par Ordre De Matieres: Par Une Soci ..., Volume 3
By F℗elix Vicq-d'Azur, Jean Le Rond d' Alembert, 1786
Quote: Ce bonnet étoit fait ep cône, 8c ressembloit à un casque. A la plaçe de l'aigrette de celui-ci, on attachoit à ï'apex une baguette recouverte de laine blanche , appelée proprement apex. De là vint le nom des Flamines, selon Servius, a Filaminibus. II est inutile de faire sentir le ridicule de cette étymologie. La forme de ce bonnet, qui ressembloit un peu à la cause ou casque Macédonien, le fit appeler bonnet d'Epire ou d'Albanie, pileus Epiroticus. Les Grecs le nommoient v'Ui,ut<


Il perfetto dittionario overo tesoro della lingua volgar Latina
1666
Pietro Galesini

http://i53.tinypic.com/2hwisye.png

http://i52.tinypic.com/15g35w9.png

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/63962_149709888410122_100001133356751_236952_38380 37_n.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy165/mushka_bucket/plisi.jpg
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+ http://i43.tinypic.com/1pvsy1.png
+ http://i40.tinypic.com/nlafzr.png

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/34096_110786422302469_100001133356751_69026_230359 _n.jpg
...


Video:
Albanian Hat - Odysseus, Patroculus, Ptolemey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1tvmnc3cVU

... and President Clinton also gave a symbolic message to the world about the albanian Plis/Qeleshe
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/154263_1615483519682_1614171932_1444406_3868676_n. jpg

Read more about albanian qeleshe/plis:
THE “IGNORANCE” OF THE ‘QELESHE’ (http://zeus10.wordpress.com/) http://zeus10.wordpress.com/
And this one, just in case... http://zeus10.webs.com/

zanipolo
25-09-11, 11:59
Wikipedia again :S
You just translated that piece of book, who tell us that Molossians are dissolved in today's Albanians, and their name in albanian is Mountain, or Malesia... Mountain people... they are connected whith ancient Macedonians (who where Thraco-Illyrian extract)... also, latter Molossians were colonized (for someone Hellenized) by hellens, that's why wikipedia call them greeks, but you should read ancient writters for these questions, and dont take ancient world as a greek monopoly. Open your mind...


... and President Clinton also gave a symbolic message to the world about the albanian Plis/Qeleshe
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/154263_1615483519682_1614171932_1444406_3868676_n. jpg

Read more about albanian qeleshe/plis:
THE “IGNORANCE” OF THE ‘QELESHE’ (http://zeus10.wordpress.com/) http://zeus10.wordpress.com/
And this one, just in case... http://zeus10.webs.com/


I translated a part of something which I do not know what it was.

So, you say, Albanians are molossians, who are an epirote tribe, who where Phygians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Epirus_%26_modern_borders.jpg
makes sense, New epirus which is modern Albania. Better than the barbarian illyrians which are north of you

So, epidamnus bacame Durres?

ultimo_m
04-10-11, 23:08
I have looked at the evidence myself and there isn't anything to connect Albanian ethos to Illyrians.

But what I've come to realize about nationalism and history is that it doesn't necessarily have to match or be accurate/truthfull, as long as the people think it is, that is good enough. I can think of three countries in the balkans off the top of my head who have this mentality. (four if you count Turkey as a balkan country).

tell me what are this evidence, prove what you say so you dont become a liar my friend !
(and i am sorry for not talking about the topic , "fustanella")

Elias2
06-10-11, 20:11
tell me what are this evidence, prove what you say so you dont become a liar my friend !
(and i am sorry for not talking about the topic , "fustanella")

No i'm not, because all albanian evidence about being Illyrian is just greek with an attempt to say how its not greek. You go in circles. I'm not going to argue with a nationalist. Have a good day.

Yetos
07-10-11, 00:45
there is nothing worse than the traitor, who change religion and language to get profit,
and then say to the ones who don't change that he is the original

thank you, Now I am sure,
when I see an alliance of Northern Albanians and Fyrom-ians I am certain of truth is not there

LeBrok
07-10-11, 02:58
there is nothing worse than the traitor, who change religion and language to get profit,
and then say to the ones who don't change that he is the original


I'm sure you are referring to all our ancestors, otherwise attach reference, so we all know who you referring to.





there is nothing worse than the traitor, who change religion and language to get profit,
and then say to the ones who don't change that he is the original

thank you, Now I am sure,
when I see an alliance of Northern Albanians and Fyrom-ians I am certain of truth is not there


Also I suggest that you keep tone of your posts neutral if not friendly. We don't need another Balkan war here.

mrikë
07-10-11, 17:07
there is nothing worse than the traitor, who change religion and language to get profit,
and then say to the ones who don't change that he is the original

thank you, Now I am sure,
when I see an alliance of Northern Albanians and Fyrom-ians I am certain of truth is not thereFriend, I believe we differ. There is nothing worse than when a person identifies his nationality through religion and church.

Elias2
08-10-11, 02:26
Friend, I believe we differ. There is nothing worse than when a person identifies his nationality through religion and church.

Was that the reasoning when the muslim albanians were trying to force the arvanites to convert to islam? Albanians were Ottoman sell-outs, now you are sell outs to however will recognize the illegal state of Kosovo. Your logic is meaningless.

Yetos
08-10-11, 03:36
I'm sure you are referring to all our ancestors, otherwise attach reference, so we all know who you referring to.




Also I suggest that you keep tone of your posts neutral if not friendly. We don't need another Balkan war here.



thank you I will try

LeBrok
08-10-11, 03:54
Please guys, keep it civilized. No personal or national attacks.

mrikë
08-10-11, 04:18
Was that the reasoning when the muslim albanians were trying to force the arvanites to convert to islam? Albanians were Ottoman sell-outs, now you are sell outs to however will recognize the illegal state of Kosovo. Your logic is meaningless.
Your argument, if one can call it such, is based on historical inaccuracies. I am not informed on your general knowledge regarding the conversion of Albanians to Islam, however I can see you have some facts wrong: when did the Muslim Albanians force the Arvanites to convert to Islam, and if such were the case how come that some Arvanite families were indeed Muslim way before let's say Northern Albanians; Albanians are not sell-outs, if they were such then one would assume that all Albanians are Muslims, Catholics or Orthodox Christian, which is not the case at all. Some Albanians converted perhaps for beneficiaries of different kind, but there are many Suffi and Sunni Albanians who converted to Islam before 1453.
Regarding the topic on whether our diplomacy is as you call it with such a vulgar term a "sell-out", I can only stand aghast at how a person could be so void of elementary knowledge on diplomacy, therefore I shall kindly ignore that part.
BUT, on the case of an illegal state of Kosova, I do have much more to add:
on January 20th of 1953 the status as a Autonomic Region of Kosova was approved by the Yugoslavian Assembly;
In 1968, 1971, 1972 peaceful demonstrations occurred throughout Kosova, where Albanians rightfully were demonstrating for an autonomous state; In all of these cases Albanians were put to prison, such as in the case of 1968 where only 13 of them had a hearing and 130 were put to prison without ever getting to have a say.
on February 28th of 1974, a new Constitution for Kosova as an Autonomic Region of Yugoslavia was approved by the Yugoslavian Assembly thus making Kosova juridically a federation of Yugoslavia;
In 1981 again a peaceful demonstration demanding an autonomous state of Kosova occurred, once again organized by the students. Throughout the demonstrations civilians were attacked by tear-gas and randomly beaten up. Over 300 Albanian intellectuals were arrested and dismissed from their working positions.
Let's fast forward to the '90's, where 90% of Albanians got fired from their jobs, the schools and University were closed, teachers and professors got randomly called up to the police station to get a free round of beating-up, a good number of them remained in jail for "resisting arrest". Naturally, no hearings for these people ever occurred. Because of this Albanians used private houses to hold lectures and classes, without any payment. By this time Albanians lived off of the diaspora because they had no other incomes or salaries.
In 1990 Albanians formed a legally rightful Assembly of Kosovo, and on July the 2nd 1990 Albanians declared independence and compiled the Constitution of Kosova.
Because of this 28 Albanians were killed, thousands of children poisoned in peaceful demonstrations.
On Septmber the 26th of 1991 a plebiscite was organized in Kosova, the results of which pointed out de jure the constituionally given right for self-determination.
By this time Serbia was already preparing for war and genocide, while Albanians peacefully required what was theirs to have.

I would also like to add that it is only now that I noticed that you presume my position to be against the church or any church per se. I shall say this, however irrelevant to the discussion, I am of Catholic background, but I would never consider myself to being a Catholic and a member of the church prior to being an Albanian. So excuse my struggle to understand Greeks.

Elias2
08-10-11, 05:12
Your argument, if one can call it such, is based on historical inaccuracies. I am not informed on your general knowledge regarding the conversion of Albanians to Islam, however I can see you have some facts wrong: when did the Muslim Albanians force the Arvanites to convert to Islam, and if such were the case how come that some Arvanite families were indeed Muslim way before let's say Northern Albanians; Albanians are not sell-outs, if they were such then one would assume that all Albanians are Muslims, Catholics or Orthodox Christian, which is not the case at all. Some Albanians converted perhaps for beneficiaries of different kind, but there are many Suffi and Sunni Albanians who converted to Islam before 1453.
Regarding the topic on whether our diplomacy is as you call it with such a vulgar term a "sell-out", I can only stand aghast at how a person could be so void of elementary knowledge on diplomacy, therefore I shall kindly ignore that part.
BUT, on the case of an illegal state of Kosova, I do have much more to add:
on January 20th of 1953 the status as a Autonomic Region of Kosova was approved by the Yugoslavian Assembly;
In 1968, 1971, 1972 peaceful demonstrations occurred throughout Kosova, where Albanians rightfully were demonstrating for an autonomous state; In all of these cases Albanians were put to prison, such as in the case of 1968 where only 13 of them had a hearing and 130 were put to prison without ever getting to have a say.
on February 28th of 1974, a new Constitution for Kosova as an Autonomic Region of Yugoslavia was approved by the Yugoslavian Assembly thus making Kosova juridically a federation of Yugoslavia;
In 1981 again a peaceful demonstration demanding an autonomous state of Kosova occurred, once again organized by the students. Throughout the demonstrations civilians were attacked by tear-gas and randomly beaten up. Over 300 Albanian intellectuals were arrested and dismissed from their working positions.
Let's fast forward to the '90's, where 90% of Albanians got fired from their jobs, the schools and University were closed, teachers and professors got randomly called up to the police station to get a free round of beating-up, a good number of them remained in jail for "resisting arrest". Naturally, no hearings for these people ever occurred. Because of this Albanians used private houses to hold lectures and classes, without any payment. By this time Albanians lived off of the diaspora because they had no other incomes or salaries.
In 1990 Albanians formed a legally rightful Assembly of Kosovo, and on July the 2nd 1990 Albanians declared independence and compiled the Constitution of Kosova.
Because of this 28 Albanians were killed, thousands of children poisoned in peaceful demonstrations.
On Septmber the 26th of 1991 a plebiscite was organized in Kosova, the results of which pointed out de jure the constituionally given right for self-determination.
By this time Serbia was already preparing for war and genocide, while Albanians peacefully required what was theirs to have.

I would also like to add that it is only now that I noticed that you presume my position to be against the church or any church per se. I shall say this, however irrelevant to the discussion, I am of Catholic background, but I would never consider myself to being a Catholic and a member of the church prior to being an Albanian. So excuse my struggle to understand Greeks.

Actually there is no inaccuracies, you trying to cover the truth in a political manner doesn't hide it. Albanians were turkish thugs in the balkans, and why you were known as turko-albanians. I'm not trying to play the politician like you are, I just speak my mind, and that albanians were turkish sell-outs is correct, then you try and degrade greeks because they kept their religion, or its identity is based on a religion, is halarious flaw of the albanian character. Albanians have no identity, you exist but don't know why and from where because you never developed an identitify, now you try to affiliate yourselves with anything in your geographical area in the historic past.

Now albanians are trying to trace their limited history and can't find anything because they never developed a sence of personal identity, so today they just grab everything that they can and nationalize it, great job. The only thing albanians can say about themselves for certain is that they are albanian, and everything else is myth.

And Kosovo is an Illegal state, it was partitioned Illegaly from Serbia, yugoslavia didn't exist anymore and internal Yugoslav politics became void. Kosovo doesn't have enough UN votes to recognise it as a seperate state. Right now its more of a NATO Vassel region, where its sovereignty is based entirely on foreign influence. If NATO forces were to leave kosovo tomorrow it would be apart of Serbia again.

Elias2
08-10-11, 05:18
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/nyt13091903.jpg

Turkish lackeys, and if anyone doesn't know, the bulgarians they are referring to are the people of FYROM. Albanians in FYROM should show more respect to them considering what they have done. This isn't the only instance either, but you can play your politician and deny it, but anyone with half a brain can see the truth.

This article is hitting two birds with one stone so-to-speak.

mrikë
08-10-11, 21:59
A cropped article from an 'independent' gazette(we don't know though, you failed to mention the name)? Seriously try to keep up. I have no intention to continue a discussion with a person who considers hate-speech a conventional way of discussing on the forums and also you have no clue on jurisdiction either, so consider this discussion ended.

Elias2
08-10-11, 23:10
A cropped article from an 'independent' gazette(we don't know though, you failed to mention the name)? Seriously try to keep up. I have no intention to continue a discussion with a person who considers hate-speech a conventional way of discussing on the forums and also you have no clue on jurisdiction either, so consider this discussion ended.

I have no hate speach, but when I hear albanians spew out utter crap about their nationalistic view of history and the world, I won't hesistate to counter with reality. Have a good day.

LeBrok
08-10-11, 23:16
Please Elias, stop these senseless provocations. Thanks mirke for keeping it on a level till the end.

Elias2
08-10-11, 23:21
Please Elias, stop these senseless provocations. Thanks mirke for keeping it on a level till the end.

I don't mind sounding like the "bad guy", I don't care for political correctness. This is a discussion board for discussing, not for acting like politicians.

LeBrok
09-10-11, 03:24
If you think it's a discussion board therefore everything goes then you are mistaken.
Read this:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/announcement.php?f=31
(4) ABUSIVE BEHAVIOUR : repeated, abusive posts that are intended only to attack other members, ethnic groups, countries, or organizations.

Elias2
09-10-11, 17:33
If you think it's a discussion board therefore everything goes then you are mistaken.
Read this:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/announcement.php?f=31
(4) ABUSIVE BEHAVIOUR : repeated, abusive posts that are intended only to attack other members, ethnic groups, countries, or organizations.

Ok, go ahead and quote me when I have racially attacked him, or other albanians in this forum.

I used the term "turkish-lackey" as an accurate description of the role of albanians played during the Ottoman period. When ever there was a christian uprising in the balkans, the Porte could always count on albanians to help supress the uprising.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/bloodinmacedonia.jpg

What I find funny about his whole thread is that Albania didn't have a national movement untill the very end stages of Ottoman rule in the balkans. The muslim albanians were loyal Turkish subject untill the end. They tried forcefully on many instances to convert the non-muslim albanian speaking people like the arvanites to islam aswell. Furthermore Mrike made the comment, "There is nothing worse than when a person identifies his nationality through religion and church." When albanians were trying to convert other albanian speaking people to islam, I guess it ultimatly failed which is why he made that comment :good_job:


The albanians posters here have the disease called nationalism, trying to constuct a historiagraphy of albania that suites the political reality, more makes albanians look more heroic/greater then what reality presents. This is the same for all nationalism everywhere. Albanians didn't have a written language untill the early 20th century, yet somehow they can trace Illyrian words in the albanian language, which is a standarised Tosk dialect, not Gheg.

Trying to connect albanians to some antiquity population is also amusing considering the first evidence of the arrival of albanian speaking people we have is during the middle ages. The primary evidence they show is trying to connect albanians to Illyrians clothing that people used to wear to modern varients. This isn't evidence, all people in antiquity wore more or less the same thing across the mediterranean. They even quote authors that wrote over 90 years ago. Alot has been uncovered and brought to light since then. The Dorian invasion is not taken seriously anymore, and neither is the notion that albanians culturally decend form Ilyrians. The population that lived in the modern geographical area of albanian prior to the middles ages would be very different culturally than it is today.

Albanians wre hired as mercenaries in the middle ages as horsemen. Albania is a very mountainous region and horse riding would be very hard. Being horsemen from outside of Albanian and came in would be more logical, as alot of nomadic peopel were hired as mercenaries. Also, Albanian being very different than the surrounding languages that were prevaillent for centuries should be a green light that maybe it doesn't come from that area. Trying to push the idea that the albanian people lived remotely is why there is little influence is nationalistic rubbish, roman had mines in the mountains of albania as well as roman roads.

http://www.dl.ket.org/latin3/mores/techno/roads/images/rd_map_color.gif

So albanian nationalists stop it with this seclulded life of persevarance that preserved Illyrian culture to present rhetoric, its simply not true, that area of Albania was connected to the world like everywhere else. If there was a very distinct people that lived in that area we would see more ancient writers write about them. I see more writing on Etheopians, a people in sub sahara africa that people that lived on the coast of the adriatic.

Yetos
09-10-11, 20:42
The first Laxicon Of (Albanian) Language was written by a Famous Arvanitis, named Marco Botsari,

in the speech of and the written of Botsari we found an Greek Aromani and Albanian Language,

the first Lexicon who published in Paris contains 20 000 words,

Yet this Man was slained By Albanians, as the whole of his tribe, Sulliotes,
A genocide

the most industrial area of modern Albania was Moschopolis, An Aromani town,

yet that town was Burned and erased from map,

when the Makedonian was on, Greek captains were slained By Albanian Geg who served the Turkish or the Bulgarian Forces,

In Upper Makedonia there is a Mountain called Neve ska
it means go away, there is no woman to marry here,
the reason , ask the local Aromani,

in minor Asia, when a Roman-Greek change religion should learn also the language, Turkish there,
In Balkans when someone change religion instead of Turkish he Learned Albanian,

About poverty, Just think that from Roman times 000 tones of Silver were there,
Turkish coins Aspra had silver from Albania,
the daughter of the president has >3% of JP MORGAN,
and is not only silver, think or search what else,

Besides the only country that has base in Albania is Turks, a big Naval Base,

Hodza was smart, He had tried to reject History, and write a new one, who say that from Italy to Japan the world is Albanian,
they are pure, no connection with races, they are ancient, they come from Illyrians, and they are the original Ancient Greeks,
Modern Albania after the oppening to world, and reject Isolation of Hodza is more scientific and logic,

People went to work abroad and see the 'stories' are not like that,

But some payed agents still work the same way as before,

reminds me the story of Zanipolo said about a book in ex-Yugoslavia,

in WW2 when Hitler spoke Arian race manage to create wars, and fanaticks,
the most famous in Balkans were the SS Scanderberg,

same way modern ALbanians in order to raise Nationalistic morale for the case of Kossovo,
Some Albanians repeat a Nazi propaganda,
Thank Gods not even in their country people believe them,


Elias is write about that,
It is another story to raise morale, and another to write 'scientific proves' and etc in order to achieve morale and unification,

Just think, why Albanians consider Kastriotis a national Hero, and Not Vallavan pasha when 74% have more common with Vallavan and not with Kastrioti,

Besides the First Time that word Arbanites is written was to describe Gen Maniaki's Army, and not a nation, as written in Anna Komnini books, (Αννα Κομνηνη)
Maniakis was Asian part of Con/polis area Skoutari (Turkish Iskutar)

and the find out why the first written in Albanian language is 5 centuries later,


Just consider that according Greek news pappers, 'Τυποσ της Κυριακης'
A fine 100 000 lek (700) Euro will be to the one that declare that are fom Greek origin in the Census,
why? cause officially in Albania exist a big Greek minority,
so in order to drop the % and raise the homogenous of the country they will put a fine of 700 E to the ones that declare that are from Greek descentants,

consider that in Ottoman empire the religious tax was the same,
700 E is 2 months sallary,

besides if you look at the above
the Pilos or Pils, the Hat,
so Odysseus was Albanian, !!!!!!
and Not Albanians Greeks !!!
or both had a same ancestor the Pelasgians,

That kind of Science is called Eπιλεκτικη,
it means I choose with Branch I will follow, with criteria not scientific, but personal,

mrikë
09-10-11, 21:59
The first Laxicon Of (Albanian) Language was written by a Famous Arvanitis, named Marco Botsari,



in the speech of and the written of Botsari we found an Greek Aromani and Albanian Language,

the first Lexicon who published in Paris contains 20 000 words,

Yet this Man was slained By Albanians, as the whole of his tribe, Sulliotes,
A genocide

Marko Boçari was killed in 1823 by Ottomans, not Albanian Muslims. And furthermore Marko Boçari is a national hero, praised by all Albanians alike. The claims you are presenting are incorrect, otherwise one would encounter this information other than Greek publications (where I presume you were informed). Funny remark though, Greeks don’t even have a letter to pronounce his name, namely ç. If you are interested you could read Aristidh Kolia.


the most industrial area of modern Albania was Moschopolis, An Aromani town,

yet that town was Burned and erased from map,

when the Makedonian was on, Greek captains were slained By Albanian Geg who served the Turkish or the Bulgarian Forces,
I cannot argue with hypothetical scenarios you are making, a friendly advice is that you include valid references because of your highly inarticulate syntax I can hardly understand what you are trying to say.


In Upper Makedonia there is a Mountain called Neve ska
it means go away, there is no woman to marry here,
the reason , ask the local Aromani, Friend, we’re not telling fairy tales nor are we discussing folkloric myths and tales. Therefore, if you please…


in minor Asia, when a Roman-Greek change religion should learn also the language, Turkish there,
In Balkans when someone change religion instead of Turkish he Learned Albanian, I don’t even know where you get your information, man, you make no sense.


About poverty, Just think that from Roman times 000 tones of Silver were there,
Turkish coins Aspra had silver from Albania,
the daughter of the president has >3% of JP MORGAN,
and is not only silver, think or search what else,

Besides the only country that has base in Albania is Turks, a big Naval Base, I shall laugh whole-heartedly at this. There are two major naval bases in Albania: Durrës and Vlorë(Sazan) and they are all run by the Albanian Army. A famous naval base during the communist era was Porto Palermo, which is a museum now.


Hodza was smart, He had tried to reject History, and write a new one, who say that from Italy to Japan the world is Albanian,
they are pure, no connection with races, they are ancient, they come from Illyrians, and they are the original Ancient Greeks,
Modern Albania after the oppening to world, and reject Isolation of Hodza is more scientific and logic,

People went to work abroad and see the 'stories' are not like that,

But some payed agents still work the same way as before,

reminds me the story of Zanipolo said about a book in ex-Yugoslavia,

in WW2 when Hitler spoke Arian race manage to create wars, and fanaticks,
the most famous in Balkans were the SS Scanderberg,

same way modern ALbanians in order to raise Nationalistic morale for the case of Kossovo,
Some Albanians repeat a Nazi propaganda,
Thank Gods not even in their country people believe them, I cannot agree with what you are saying. There is no nationalistic morale to rise of which you speak. The truth is that the moment an Albanian enters a forum to discuss peacefully the history of Albanians, the person is insulted such as “having a disease called nationalism”(sic!). Excuse me if I shall not stand by idly and see myself being accused of having a “Nazzi” ideology for simply sharing knowledge and information. I believe it to be of high importance to see both sides of the coin. If you disagree with my opinions I expect you to be a resourceful arguer if you tend to dispute my posts.


Elias is write about that,
It is another story to raise morale, and another to write 'scientific proves' and etc in order to achieve morale and unification,

Just think, why Albanians consider Kastriotis a national Hero, and Not Vallavan pasha when 74% have more common with Vallavan and not with Kastrioti,

Besides the First Time that word Arbanites is written was to describe Gen Maniaki's Army, and not a nation, as written in Anna Komnini books, (Αννα Κομνηνη)
Maniakis was Asian part of Con/polis area Skoutari (Turkish Iskutar)

and the find out why the first written in Albanian language is 5 centuries later, Ana Komnena (note the surname) states Albanoi as a population. You don’t need to spell her name in Greek, because it hardly adds any scientific credibility to it. When M. Attaleiates mentions Albanians by describing the uprising of 1043 he indirectly indicates that the Albanians and the Latins had been equal subjects of the Empire and had the same religion as the Byzantines but then had become fierce enemies. This would mean that in 1043 the Albanians, the inhabitants of the region of Albanon, Arbanon, were neither subjects of Byzantine nor Orthodox Christian. You can read further on this by browsing the works of Kristo Frashëri.

Elias2
10-10-11, 18:09
I cannot agree with what you are saying. There is no nationalistic morale to rise of which you speak. The truth is that the moment an Albanian enters a forum to discuss peacefully the history of Albanians, the person is insulted such as “having a disease called nationalism”(sic!). Excuse me if I shall not stand by idly and see myself being accused of having a “Nazzi” ideology for simply sharing knowledge and information. I believe it to be of high importance to see both sides of the coin. If you disagree with my opinions I expect you to be a resourceful arguer if you tend to dispute my posts.


Albanian history that you and others try to present is Nationalist history. The un-true, artifical version that is spread to boost justifications of albanian current political reality in albania and Kosovo. By trying to claim albanians are decended from Illyrian, you are trying to prove that you have some sort of historic rights to the lands albanians currently occupy. Albanians do not decend from Illyrians, this is pretty obvious. And other claims I read here form albanians is pretty hilarious, albanians as epirots and Macedonians, this makes me laugh more.

Albanians came to the balkans some time in the middle ages, from where is a good question to ask.

P.S. Kosovo is still a illegal Vassel NATO state that will not get enough backing to join the UN any time soon.

Yetos
10-10-11, 19:16
Anna komneni original word is Αρβανιτες and their major city Αρβανον probably Berat around or little north,

the same word is used to describe the Arbanites of Boiotia when they moved after invitation by the Latin-(Catholic) Duke of Athens,

the rest is your imagination

If you read all my posts then you know,

Hodza is dead, and communist and Nazis are dead,

Kossovo soon will split to 2 parts, the pristina-Kossyfopolis and the Petz-metochia

a Biger Albania is on the way, they dont need facultated and imaginary fairy tales.
there is also possibility of spliting Bosnia too, as also Greece and Fyrom creating big slavic makedonia, or big albania and Bulgaria,

you can not re-write history,


Albanian people which became nation at 1912, and their History is written by blood, wars, civil wars, etc,

they don't need another facultated History, they deserve the truth,

a Pelasgian Celtic and Dacian ancestry is truth, plus an extra possible Thracian in Kossyfopedio,

the rest is just imaginary and facultated just to promote something that does not exist


some Pelasgian some Celtic many Roman plus the the Basic Language of Germidava is the substractum of Albanian language, remeber Pelasgian + Celtic = Illyrian

Turkish remnants exist in all Balkanic languages

a case of Cuns is possible since Anjou and Hunyades had connection with Kumans,


Stop reading Zeus10
he is showing that Etruscan Pelasgian Ilyrians Greeks Troyans Thracians maybe even phillistines are Albanians, tomorrow he will wake and say that Romanians and Slovenians are also Albanians,

Just ask your shelf, why you make National Hero Kastrioti and Not Vallavan pasa, since 74% follows the the teach of Vallavan?


as for moschopolis you can read about it,
also you read about Ali pasa,
also you can read who killed Paulos Melas (Miki Zeza) and whom he served,

mrikë
10-10-11, 20:17
Anna komneni original word is Αρβανιτες and their major city Αρβανον probably Berat around or little north,

the same word is used to describe the Arbanites of Boiotia when they moved after invitation by the Latin-(Catholic) Duke of Athens,

the rest is your imagination

If you read all my posts then you know,

Hodza is dead, and communist and Nazis are dead,

Kossovo soon will split to 2 parts, the pristina-Kossyfopolis and the Petz-metochia

a Biger Albania is on the way, they dont need facultated and imaginary fairy tales.

you can not re-write history,


Albanian people which became nation at 1912, and their History is written by blood, wars, civil wars, etc,

they don't need another facultated History, they deserve the truth,

a Pelasgian Celtic and Dacian ancestry is truth, plus an extra possible Thracian in Kossyfopedio,

the rest is just imaginary and facultated just to promote something that does not exist

Please re-check your facts, because on Book IV chapter VIII and page 154/book VI Ana Komnena clearly uses the word Αλβανοί. Greeks call Albanians with the name Arvanites, maybe you are confused by that. On this topic perhaps you should consult with Xρονογραφια της 'Ἠπειρου by Π. Αραβαντινου. To be more specific the transformation of arv-alb is known to occur from Byzantine texts to Latin ones and vice-versa.
I am not that shocked at the opinions you hold regarding the origin of Albanians, but what what makes me awe-struck is the fact that you're trying to falsify historical sources on behalf of people who don't speak Greek. If you continue to make up historical events that never occurred, I fear that I am forced to end the discussion and disregard your posts in general.

Yetos
11-10-11, 12:43
Please re-check your facts, because on Book IV chapter VIII and page 154/book VI Ana Komnena clearly uses the word Αλβανοί. Greeks call Albanians with the name Arvanites, maybe you are confused by that. On this topic perhaps you should consult with Xρονογραφια της 'Ἠπειρου by Π. Αραβαντινου. To be more specific the transformation of arv-alb is known to occur from Byzantine texts to Latin ones and vice-versa.
I am not that shocked at the opinions you hold regarding the origin of Albanians, but what what makes me awe-struck is the fact that you're trying to falsify historical sources on behalf of people who don't speak Greek. If you continue to make up historical events that never occurred, I fear that I am forced to end the discussion and disregard your posts in general.




what book and what edition you have?

the original word as used by both Attaleiates and Anna komneni is Αρβανιτες, and are recogned as the Sicilian Guard in the Army of Maniakis

according these books Arbanites came from Sicily by Maniakis at his revolt to gain the Throne,

the penguin 1969 and the Late Barbara Hill (author) indeed use the word Albani but is translation,

search the original text in Greek-Byzantine of Kurtz 1907 of the epos Αλεξιας (Alexiad)

All edition after 1928 use the term Albanoi only the original and the old edition of 1907 use the word Αρβανιτεc

sorry but when you read something read the original.


4.8.4 Ὁ δὲ βασιλεὺς τοὺς ἑλιγ μοὺς τῶν παρακειμένων ὀρῶν καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν δύσβατον ἀτραπὸν ἐν δυσὶ νυχθημέροις διεξελθὼν καταλαμβάνει τὴν Ἀχρίδα. Ἐν δὲ τῷ μεταξὺ τὸν Χαρζάνην διελθὼν καὶ μικρὸν περὶ τὴν καλουμένην Βαβαγορὰν ἐγκαρτερήσας (τέμπος δ' αὕτη δύσβατόν ἐστι), μήθ' ὑπὸ τῆς ἥττης μήθ' ὑπὸ τῶν ἄλλων τοῦ μόθου κακῶν τὸν νοῦν συγχυθεὶς μήθ' ὑπὸ τῆς κατὰ τὸ μέτωπον τοῦ τραύματος ὀδύνης ὑποχα λάσας, κἂν τὰ ἐντὸς ὑπὸ τῆς λύπης τῶν ἐν τῇ μάχῃ πε πτωκότων καὶ μᾶλλον τῶν γενναίως ἀγωνισαμένων ἀνδρῶν ἐξεφλέγετο. Ἀλλ' ὅμως τῆς πόλεως ὅλος ἦν Δυρραχίου καὶ ταύτης ἐμέμνητο ἀχθόμενος ὅτι ἄτερ ἡγεμόνος κατα λέλειπτο τοῦ Παλαιολόγου διὰ τὴν ὀξεῖαν συμβολὴν τοῦ πολέμου μὴ δυνηθέντος ἐπαναστρέψαι. Καὶ ὡς ἐνὸν τοὺς κατ' αὐτὴν ἠσφαλίσατο καὶ τὴν τῆς ἀκροπόλεως φρουρὰν τοῖς ἐκκρίτοις Βενετίκοις τῶν ἐκεῖσε ἀποίκων ἀνέθετο, τὴν δέ γε ἐπίλοιπον πᾶσαν πόλιν τῷ ἐξ Ἀρβάνων ὁρμω μένῳ Κομισκόρτῃ τὰ συνοίσοντα, διὰ γραμμάτων ὑποθέμενος.

Original text by Kurtz edition. 1907

in Book six we read a battle of Robert with Γεωργιος in Αυλωνα Κορυφω Επιδαμνον και Δυρραχιον Μοσυνουπολις
the ones you change to Vlore Korce Durress Voskopolje Like the turks did
and the adventures of Robert in minor Asia
there is not a mention in book six, only city names which i gave


now you may reconsider your thesis,
and ask for sorry cause your Nationalism blinds you,


again you are wrong if you read Arabantinos Thomopoulos A.Kolla and the others,
they are fairy tellers

Arbanon and arbanites is the form until about 1400-1500 after 14-1500 we find 1rst time the word Albanoi again as albanites
the reform from arb to Alb although is yet unknown why,
probably an inner name, or more good sound or pronounce,
or by the Hunyades and Al from ALBA Lullia, or when got in touch with Turks, or by th Anju
Cause at Progoni time the official name was Arberia

Besides the latin from was Urbanites from Urban or Urbanon
possible difference from Villachi who lived in villas

Next time you provoke me or insult me plz have the correct text and a translation.

It is another story to be proud of what you are, and another story to be proud by something that you are not, and try to convice your self with fake History

except if ironically Anna komnene knew English and wrote original in English
or your Translator was Zeus10


Guys again plz stop reading History by Zeus10

Besir Bajrami
14-10-11, 12:07
I translated a part of something which I do not know what it was.

So, you say, Albanians are molossians, who are an epirote tribe, who where Phygians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Epirus_%26_modern_borders.jpg
makes sense, New epirus which is modern Albania. Better than the barbarian illyrians which are north of you

So, epidamnus bacame Durres?


Ncncnc... why you don't teach the basic history about this region, than to ask me these kind of questions, and preferably not in this topic, what is for people who dont have complexes from the undisputed autochthony of the Albanians.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262635_196590577055386_100001133356751_480110_4863 425_n.jpg
+If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
http://books.google.com/books?id=tPE...ed=0CCsQ6AEwAA (http://books.google.com/books?id=tPEaAAAAYAAJ&q=If+there+is+a+truly+autochthonous+race+in+the+wo rld+it+is+certainly+the+Albanian+race,+as+it+is+fo rmed+of+the+descendants+of+the+Pelasgians+and+has+ kept+for+centuries+the+unique+qualities+of+energy+ and+intelligence+which+characterized+its+ancestors .&dq=If+there+is+a+truly+autochthonous+race+in+the+w orld+it+is+certainly+the+Albanian+race,+as+it+is+f ormed+of+the+descendants+of+the+Pelasgians+and+has +kept+for+centuries+the+unique+qualities+of+energy +and+intelligence+which+characterized+its+ancestor s.&hl=en&ei=3ExxTsqdAsqA4gSE0JHKCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA)
+ Alber Pike, and others: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page6

First lesson is to understand the difference of the Colonizers from Indigenous (native, autochthon people).
You make the same mistake whith the maps what you've posted here.

"Epidamnos was noted for being a politically advanced society, prompting Aristotle[7] to praise its political system in controlling trade between the Greek COLONISTS and the LOCAL "barbarians"... After the Illyrian Wars with the Roman Republic in 229 BC ended in a decisive defeat for the Illyrians, the city passed to Roman rule, under which it was developed as a major military and naval base. The Romans renamed it Dyrrachium"

Ancient writers tell us that Epirus was inhabitet by barbarians
http://www.google.com/#q=epirus+barbarians&hl=en&prmd=imvnsb&source=lnms&tbm=bks&ei=f_CXToLlOcSCOuastIkK&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=7&ved=0CBEQ_AUoBg&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=a89586d2bb444145&biw=1024&bih=602

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=epirus+was+inhabited+by+barbarians&pbx=1&oq=epirus+was+inhabited+by+barbarians&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=112629l121407l4l124066l17l12l0l0l0l2l2066l2 897l6-1.9-1l4l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=a89586d2bb444145&biw=1024&bih=602

Also, Herodotus, speaking of some settlements held to be Pelaigic, and existing in his time, terms their language 'barbarous' (non-greek).

+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/268867_195123980535379_100001133356751_474289_5451 92_n.jpg

Herodotos, Volume 1
By Herodotus, Heinrich Stein
Page 182
History - 1880
The Pelasgians were a different nation from the Hellenes : their language was peculiar, and not Greek:
...this were really so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi, must have changed their language at the same time that they passed into the Hellenic body;
...for it is a certain fact that the people of Creston speak a language unlike any of their neighbours, and the same is true of the Placianians, while the language spoken by these two people is the same;
...which shows that they both retain the idiom which they brought with them into the countries where they are now settled.
...It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power;
...but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians.
...The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian race which never greatly multiplied.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/270868_196361540411623_100001133356751_479577_4981 913_n.jpg

By the way, ancient greek writers tell us that: ...the whole Greece was inhabited by "barbarians".
Hecatæus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus, that, before the time of the Greeks, it was inhabited by barbarians. Perhaps even the whole of Greece was, anciently, a settlement of barbarians, if we judge from former accounts.
http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname=GreekTexts&getid=1&query=Str.%207.7.2

Strabo (7.7.1) and Pausanias (1.41.8) both offer the opinion that Hellas was once entirely or almost entirely inhabited by barbarians
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/burckhardt-greeks.html

+
The region of epirus by most of the facts that ancient historians have given to us seems to be a non greek region:
1)"Thucydides" In his book (Peloponessian War) He describes the Barbarian Allies of the Peloponessians.
"From the Hellenes there were the Ambraciots, Leucadians and 1000 Peloponessian hoplites."
"From the Barbarians there were: 1000 Chaones wich have no King but 2 Prostates for 1 year Fotis and Nikanores. The Chaones are joint by Thesprotes wich they to have no King. In the head of the Mollosians and the Atintanians was Sabylinthius wich was the tutor of King Tharypa (yet still a child). There were also the Parauey with their King Oroides and 1000 Orestes."
In Greek From Ancient Text..
Ο στρατός του περιελάμβανεν
Έλληνας μεν Αμπρακιώτας και Λευκαδίους, και Ανακτόρους και τους χιλίους Πελοποννησίους, επι κεφαλής των οποίων είχεν έλθει ο ίδιος,
βαρβάρους δε χιλίους Χάονας, οι οποίοι, αβασίλευτοι όντες, είχαν αρχηγούς τον Φώτυον και τον Νικάνορα, οι οποίοι κατήγοντο από το αρχοντικόν γένος που ήσκει ενιαυσίως την αρχήν. Μαζί με τους Χάονας εξεστράτευσαν και οι θεσπρωτοί, οι οποίοι ήσαν επίσης αβασίλευτοι. Δύναμις Μολοσσών και Ατιντάνων, εξ άλλου, ήτο υπό την αρχηγίαν του Σαβυλίνθου, επιτρόπου του βασιλέως Θαρύπου, ο οποίος ήτο ακόμη ανήλικος, και δύναμις Παραυαίων υπό την αρχηγίαν του βασιλέως Οροίδου. Μαζί με τους Παραυαίους εξεστράτευσαν και χίλιοι Ορέσται, των οποίων βασιλεύς ήτο ο Αντίοχος, ο οποίος είχεν εμπιστευθή την αρχηγίαν των εις τον Όροιδον
http://www.mikrosapoplous.gr/thucy/v...frame_main.htm

2)"Skylax" He writes around (370-360 b.c) A Geographic book.
He describes the People that lives in Adriatic and Ionian region.
"In The North Adriatic lives the tribe of the Liburnians,
"The middle and the South Adriatic sea Is Populated By Illyrians"
"The Ionian sea is devided Between Chaons and Thesprots.Between them The Mollosians have opened an exit to the sea wich is (40 stadia=8Km)."
"After Mollosia it comes Ambracia an Hellenic Polis,which is (80 stadia) away from the sea"
"From there and down is Hellas no end"

IN GREEK:
ΑΜΒΡΑΚΙΑ. Μετά την Μολοττία,η Αμβρακία, ελληνική πόλη.Απέχει από την θάλασσα ογδόντα στάδια.Υπάρχει οχύρωμα και κλειστό λιμάνι.Από εδώ αρχίζει η Ελλάδα που φτάνει έως τον ποταμό Πηνειό και το Ομόλιο, πόλη των Μαγνήτων,που βρίσκεται στον ποταμό αυτό.Η ακτή της Αμβρακίας,εκατόν είκοσι στάδια.
http://svorak.wordpress.com/2007/02/07/%CE%A3%CE%BA%CF%8D%CE
%BB%CE%B1%CE%BE-%CE%BC%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%AC%CF%86%CF
%81%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%B7/

3)Strabo book VII
Hecataeus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus that before the time of the Greeks it was inhabited by barbarians. Yet one might say that in the ancient times the whole of Greece was a settlement of barbarians,.... whereas the Dryopes, the Caucones, the Pelasgi, the Leleges, and other such peoples, apportioned among themselves the parts that are inside the isthmus--and also the parts outside, for Attica was once held by the Thracians who came with Eumolpus, {398} Daulis in Phocis by Tereus, {399} Cadmeia {400} by the Phoenicians who came with Cadmus, and Boeotia itself by the Aones and Temmices and Hyantes. Moreover, the barbarian origin of some is indicated by their names--Cecrops, Godrus, Aïclus, Cothus, Drymas, and Crinacus. And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably Greece is held by the barbarians--Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly by the thracians,and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the Thesproti, the Cassopaei,the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes--Epeirotic tribes.

4)Plutarch-----------(Pyrrhus)------------
In his Book it is said:
"From him Achilles came to have divine honors in Epirus, under the name of Aspetus, in the language of the country"
Aspetus=Speito in Albanian and Fast in English.
Pyrrhus was brought at the home of the Illyrian King Glaucias:
"Thus being safe, and out of the reach of pursuit, they addressed themselves to Glaucias, then King of the Illyrians,and finding him sitting at home with his wife, they laid down the child before them."
He was rised as an Illyrian Prince:
"At present, therefore, he gave Pyrrhus into the charge of his wife, commanding he should be brought up with his own children; and a little later, the enemies sending to demand him, and Cassander himself offering two hundred talents, he would not deliver him up; but when he was twelve years old, bringing him with an army into Epirus, made him king."
The Brotherhood between him and Glaucias sons:
"He took a journey out of the kingdom to attend the marriage of one of Glaucias's sons, with whom he was brought up;"

5)Strabo:
He has writen about the passengers which passes the Egnatia road:
"Starting from Epidamnus (Durres,Dyrrahio) and down to Apollonia, in the Right they have the tribes of Epirus....., in the Left they have the mountains of Illyria.....Then Sailing from Ambracian Golf and on, the places which is in the East and across Peloponnesous are Hellenic.
Also he writes:
"After the Epirotes and Illyrians, from the Hellenes are Akarnanes,Etoles,Lokries and Ezoles

6)Appianus:---------(Historia Romana)-----------
In his book "Historia Romana" it is an article about the Illyrians:
" The Greeks call those people Illyrians who occupy the region beyond Macedonia and Thrace from Chaonia and Thesprotia to the river Danube. This is the length of the country. Its breadth is from Macedonia and the mountains of Thrace to Pannonia and the Adriatic and the foothills of the Alps. Its breadth is five days' journey and its length thirty - so the Greek writers say. The Romans measured the country and found its length to be upward of 1,000 kilometers and its width about 220."
http://www.livius.org/ap-ark/appian/...an_1.html#%A71

7)Ephores:
He writes that: "the Head(start) of Hellas, is Akarnania from the West,because it is the first that contacts with the Epirots tribes"

8)Malte Brun (Geographer from Danmark)
Analised the Geography of Strabon, and came to concluson that
Etolia and Akarnania, where considered by Ancient Greeks as Semi-Barbarians

9)Strabo and Plutarchus
They write that "Epirots speak a different language from the Greek,
it resembles very much to Macedonian"

10)Puqueville:
When he speaks about Etolia and Akarnania, he sais that:
these places are called Shqiperia, and the inhabitants where called Shqiptar

11)Ch.Brouchneri (Geographer of the king of England)
Albania(Shqiperia) is a province of European Turkey,
In north it borders with Bosnia and Dalmatia,
In south with Livadhia,in East with Thessalia and Macedonia

12)Teodor Momsen (Historian)
In his Book: (History of Ancient Rome).
he calls the Epirotians, Albanians(Shqiptars) of antiquety.

13)Laibnic (the so called Aristotles of modern times)
In his letter sent in 24 January 1705, he writes that
"The Language of Ancient Epirots might exist somewhere in Epirus"
the same believes and

14)J.E.Tunman:
In Epirus lived only non-greeks populations, they spoke Macedonian which is the same with illyrian.the same believes and F.Bop,
J.R.F.Ksilander, J.G.F.Han, J.F.Falmerajer , T.Mommsen

15)P.Krecmer
He writes that:
All the group of North Tribes, from the borders of Epirus, at least from the times of Herodotus, had been called Illyrians, or Hyllirians which is more ancient.

16)Edison L.Clark
He writes:
Albanians, Arnauts as the turks calls them, or Shqiptars,
live in the territory of ancient Epirus and in the territory of illyrians in East Macedonia.
From Montenegro(North) till the Ambracian Golf (South).
He continues :
Ancient Epirots are different from Ancient Greeks, like Albanians from todays Greeks.Epirots and Illyrians where neighbour tribes , but of the same blood, which spoke different dialects of the same language.

17)Marinus Barletius:
In His Book About the Life(biography) of the national hero of Albania , George Kastrioti - Scanderbeg:
The title of his Book is"
«HISTORIA DE VITA ET GESTIS SCANDERBEGI EPIROTARUM PRINCIPIS»

18)Scanderbeg
A letter that send to Prince of Tarranto , Giovani Antonio , Wrote:
"My Forefathers were Epirotes , from which Pyrrhus rose who won the Romans"
Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. My elders were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro (Pyrrhus the Great), who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies.
I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?

18) Martin P. N. Nilson,”Studien z.Geschichte d’alten Epiros”, Lun, 1909
Epirus in every Aspect is non Greek

19) Leon the Clever ( X century a.d)
The inhabitants of Epirus are Albanians

20)Mihal Ducasnantari (Byzantine Cronist of XIV century)
"The ruler of Janina Thomas Preliubovic , the so called "ALBANOKTONOS" (albanians killer) ,
was Clearing Janina from Albanians , in a way that , he was sending Gjin Bua shpata Baskets with Albanian Eyes...

21) Lord Byron (Childe Harold's)
XLII
Morn dawns; and with it stern Albania's hills,
Dark Suli's rocks, and Pindus' inland peak,
http://www.photoaspects.com/chesil/byron/childe1.html

1
Tambourgi! Tambourgi! thy 'larum afar
Gives hope to the valiant, and promise of war;
All the sons of the mountains arise at the note,
Chimariot, Illyrian, and dark Suliote!
In a Letter "31.10.1809" sending a letter he writes (Yannina - Albania)
I first landed in Albania the ancient Epirus where we as far as Mount Tomarit
excellently by the chief AH Pacha and after journeying through Illyria Chaonia ... crossed the Gulf Actium with a guard of fifty Albanians and passed the Achelous in our route through Acarnania...............
http://books.google.com/books?id=jdo...ancient+Epirus

Albania comprises part of Macedonia lllyria Chaonia and Epirus Iskander is the Turkish word for Alexander and the celebrated Scanderbeg Lord Alexander is alluded to in the third and fourth lines of the thirty eighth stanza I do not know whether I am correct in making Scandcrbeg the countryman of Alexander who was horn at Pella in Macedón but Mr Gibbon terms him so and adds Pyrrhus to the list in speaking of his exploits Of Albania
http://books.google.com/books?id=jxc...#PRA1-PA703,M1

22)Dr. Holland says when landing in Epirus
The Albanian peasant or soldier words which in this country seem to be almost
synonymous is here seen in the completeness of his national character and costume masculine in his features which slio
http://books.google.com/books?id=muA...9q4Kto8vK9Yo-I

23) Karl Marx (The Eastern Question , p.18)
With Constantinople, she stands on the threshold of the Mediterranean; with
Durazzo and the Albanian coast from Antivari to Arta, she is in the very center ....
http://books.google.com/books?id=SZX...8sQO4#PPA18,M1

24) Henry Holland
I shall mention a few particulars as the gulf of Arta may be considered the outlet for the southern of Albania
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ul0...+Arta#PPA84,M1

25) The pro-Greek historian Spiro Muselimi,
in his book "Historical Sight Through Thesprotia", edited in Joannina on 1974,
"The bishop of Thesprotia in the year 1870 translated some parts of Bible into Albanian, as the people of orthodox faith of the region did not understand any word in Greek".

26 The census held by the Turkish Administration in 1910 established that there were 83.000 orthodox and muslim Albanians in the region.

27) The demographic map of the British military mission sent to the British government
in London indicates that on the eve of the second World War, %75 of Chameria's population was Albanian.

28) Catholic Encyclopedia of 1900

Albania
The ancient Epirus and Illyria, is the most western land occupied by the Turks in Europe.
Its extreme length is about 290 miles, and its breadth from forty to ninety miles.
On the west and southwest it is bounded by the Adriatic and the Ionian seas.
It is generally divided into three regions: Upper Albania, from the Montenegrin
frontier to the river Shkumbi; Lower Albania, or Epirus, from the Shkumbi to the Gulf of Arta;
and Eastern Albania, to the east of the Schar-Dagh chain....
After Scutari, Yanina is the largest and most interesting town of modern Albania.
Near it are the ruins of the temple of Dodona,
the cradle of pagan civilization in Greece.........
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01253b.htm

29) Sathos (Greek Historian)
"In Middle ages Thesprotia is referred as being inhabited by Albanian population"

30) Golubinski
The most famous and most learned champion of these reforms was
Maximus the Greek, born at Arta, in Albania, and educated in Italy. He entered
monastic life on Mount Athos, and in 1518 repaired to Russia.........
http://www.literatures.info/russian_literature.htm

31) Stefanos Skyloudis (letter to Greek foreign minister in 18/02/1877)
" .....Albanians without a writing language ,undeveloped education , without a definite religion ,
will not preserve for to long time their nationality , they will gradually assimilated from the Greeks of Epirus"
READ THIS BOOK VERY USEFUL (ALI PASHA BIOGRAPHY) from 1823
http://books.google.com/books?id=gsk...banian#PPP1,M2

+ The American review of reviews, Volume 47, Albert Shaw - Review of Reviews, 1913
"These people are generally and in all probability accurately identified as the result of the combination of the ancient Illyrians, Macedonians, and Epirotes, who were all the descendants of the more ancient Pelasgians."


... and hundreds of thousands of other books, that describes Epirotes as Illyrian. Thracian and Illyrian (who formed the Macedonians), are represented today by the Albanians. Attention, all these aforementioned native cultures (known by one name as Pelasgian), for Greeks were barbaric, or, different from them. http://www.arberiaonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=172

Also, in this document below, under the permission of the Greek Parliament, in 1867, is accepted that albanians are descent of Epirotes and Macedonians too.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/228065_206866199344527_204073476290466_614032_1201 218_n.jpg

Other books:

BBC -reference-encyclopedia britannica

Pyrrhus the Eagle, King of Epirus: 319 - 272 BC
This is the story of Pyrrhus of Epirus - the fool of hope.
His Origins
Epirus
The territory of Epirus was the mountainous coastal region of modern north-western Greece and southern Albania. To the north was Illyria and to the east Macedonia. To the Greeks the Epirotes were barbarians, although their ancestry was Dorian. Epirus was a poor land, rich only in warriors. The dominant tribe of Epirus were the Molossians.

His Family
The only Epirotes whom the Greeks regarded as Greek were the Aeacidae, royal house of the Molossians. Pyrrhus was a member of this family. The Aeacidae claimed descent from Achilles. Olympias, wife of Philip II of Macedon and mother of Alexander the Great, was an Aeacidae princess; making Pyrrhus a cousin of Alexander. In 334BC, when Alexander the Great began his conquest of the Persian Empire, the King of Epirus, Alexander the Molossian (uncle of Pyrrhus), attempted to conquer southern Italy. In 331BC he died in battle against the Romans. He was succeeded by Aeacides, father of Pyrrhus, but in 317BC Aeacides was driven from Epirus by a rebellion2. After this Epirus became a tribal federation instead of a kingdom.

His Early Career
His Path to a Throne
Glaucias, King of Illyria, gave sanctuary to Pyrrhus as a child, and placed him on the throne of Epirus when he was twelve. He allied himself with Demetrius, son of Antigonus I3 of Macedon. In 302BC, whilst absent from his kingdom, he was dethroned by a palace coup and replaced by a kinsman Neoptolemus4. Lacking a kingdom, he fought for Demetrius in Syria, earning himself a reputation as a brave and talented warrior. Sent to Alexandria as a hostage under the terms of the peace treaty between Demetrius and Ptolemy I Soter5, he was befriended by Ptolemy, who restored him to the throne of Epirus in 297BC. Initially Pyrrhus shared his throne with Neoptolemus but soon had him assassinated. His rule in Epirus was absolute from now on.

Plutarch, The Parallel Lives
p347 The Life of Pyrrhus

1 Historians tell us that the first king of the Thesprotians and Molossians after the flood was Phaethon, one of those who came into Epeirus with Pelasgus; but some say that Deucalion and Pyrrha established the sanctuary at Dodona and dwelt there among the Molossians. 2 In after time, however, Neoptolemus the son of Achilles, bringing a people with him, got possession of the country for himself, and left a line of kings descending from him. These were called after him Pyrrhidae; for he had the surname of Pyrrhus in his boyhood, and of his legitimate children by Lanassa, the daughter of Cleodaeus the son of Hyllus, one was named by him Pyrrhus. Consequently Achilles also obtained divine honours in Epeirus, under the native name of Aspetus. (spet=shpejt)

Plutarch, The Parallel Lives
p348 The Life of Pyrrhus

...Having thus outstripped their pursuers and reached a place of safety, the fugitives betook themselves to Glaucias the king of the Illyrians; and finding him sitting at home with his wife, they put the little child down on the floor before them. Then the king began to reflect. He was in fear of Cassander, who was an enemy of Aeacides, and held his peace a long time as he took counsel with himself. 2 Meanwhile Pyrrhus, of his own accord, crept across the floor, clutched the king's robe, and pulled himself on to his feet at the knees of Glaucias, who was moved at first to laughter, then to pity, as he saw the child clinging to his knees and weeping like a formal p353suppliant. Some say, however, that the child did not supplicate Glaucias, but caught hold of an altar of the gods and stood there with his arms thrown round it, and that Glaucias thought this a sign from Heaven. 3 Therefore he at once put Pyrrhus in the arms of his wife, bidding her rear him along with their children; and a little while after, when the child's enemies demanded his surrender, and Cassander offered two hundred talents for him, Glaucias would not give him up, but after he had reached the age of twelve years, actually conducted him back into Epeirus with an armed force and set him upon the throne there.


That means that the king of Illyria has the authority to appoint the king of Epirus. Since we dont know any source showing us any war betwen Illyrians and Epiriots, or any invasion to each -other, the conclusion is: Illyria and Epirus were inhabitated from the same people.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/74563_143666925681085_100001133356751_206376_62642 60_n.jpg
+ http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=66181&l=6b52db2cbb&id=100001133356751
+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/149972_143666022347842_100001133356751_206368_4392 399_n.jpg

Pyrrhys the King of the Epirotes [or the Albanians]
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/76318_143668232347621_100001133356751_206397_77347 48_n.jpg

Pirro the king of the Epirotes or the Albanian
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/76318_143668229014288_100001133356751_206396_49745 70_n.jpg

Struggle between Pyrrhus and Rome
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/74045_143669045680873_100001133356751_206403_60244 38_n.jpg

Ivan Gavrilovich, Golovin - Published 1854 Adamant Media Corporation
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=143666929014418&set=a.139407142773730.23767.100001133356751&type=1

The Balkans-A history od Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece, Turkey...
The Epirotes are population of Albanian race and they stil speak an albanian dialect in their homes...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/74045_143669049014206_100001133356751_206404_20162 30_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/149972_143666015681176_100001133356751_206366_2015 095_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/76318_143668235680954_100001133356751_206398_72865 76_n.jpg

http://www.google.com/#q=epirotes+were+barbarian&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=bks&ei=jLGATtKbGJTE4gSIqIm9Dg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=7&sqi=2&ved=0CA0Q_AUoBg&prmdo=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=92f4c9932522fda1&biw=1024&bih=602

Prevesa, a town on the coast of Albania
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/74045_143669049014206_100001133356751_206404_20162 30_n.jpg


The Encyclopædia britannica- a dictionary of arts, sciences ... Volume 1 Pg. 483
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/71667_139408166106961_100001133356751_187139_67413 47_n.jpg


Pott deem it clear that the Albanian language is the true representative of the ancient Illyrian. The Epirots and Illyrians were neighbor and kindred tribes, speaking different dialects of the same language.
p.169
The races of European Turkey
Edson Lyman Clark
Dodd, Mead & co., 1878

Three shkypetar states Illyria, Epirus and Macedonia
Wadham Peacock - Albania, the foundling state of Europe
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183690_168234603224317_100001133356751_331544_3466 726_n.jpg
+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/69311_139410422773402_100001133356751_187207_57984 3_n.jpg

+
The Home and foreign review, Volume 4
Williams and Norgate, 1864
Pelasgian and Illyrian race. Are they different races? We think not.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/296184_299933473353480_151427651537397_1377833_958 937000_n.jpg

+ Universal geography: Tosk and Geg, no doubt originating from the Pelasgians, the social situation of which three thousand years of unchanged

+ Europe, Stanford's compendium of geogr. and travel
Frederick William Rudler, George Goudie Chisholm
Andrew Crombie Ramsay (sir)
London, Edward Standford, 55, Charing Cross, S.W, 1885

Thracian, Illyrians, Moedians, Macedonians, Epirots, - in a word, all the old inhabitants of the Balkan Peninsula... are now represented by the Albanians alone... Albanian language it seems to stand somewhat in the same relation to Greek that Etruscan does to Latin. Analogies have even been pointed out between Albanian and Etruscan...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/302296_296096537070507_151427651537397_1360208_159 2396591_n.jpg
+ about etruscans: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25617-Fustanella/page7
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=168234583224319&l=0deac217ab

Dorians came from north Illyria, today geg albanains are the north-west illyrians, and today tosk albanians are the south-east illyrians, or pelasgians. That's why ancient greek language, is more closest whith geg albanian (dorians, who fight whith tosk albanians or the civil wars between illyrian or pelasgian tribes. Troyan war was one of them), than whith tosk albanian language.

+ Elgin Marble Argument in a New Light, by MICHAEL KIMMELMAN - Published: June 23, 2009
“We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.”
http://macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/nytimes_Elgin-Marble.png

+ The races of European Turkey
Edson Lyman Clark
Dodd, Mead & co., 1878
"Pott deem it clear that the Albanian language is the true representative of the ancient Illyrian. The Epirots and Illyrians were neighbor and kindred tribes, speaking different dialects of the same language." p.169

Bulletin de l'Institut égyptien
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/265182_196361530411624_100001133356751_479576_2768 199_n.jpg
Page 45
It will be easier to confirm our opinion on the origin of Albanian Pelasgian, since this language is kept constant in his greatest traits over the centuries until today, according to historical facts.
As already predicted the German scientist Muller, Albanian will give us the key to the solution of several problems related to linguistic and ethnographic literature Greco-Latin.
Appointed Pelaka Skype or by Albanians living in Epirus, Albania, Macedonia and Italy, Arber by Albanians in Greece, this dialect is formed from a few thousand words and monosyllables bisyllabic, roots dry and arid without prefixes or suffixes some exceptions.
Excluding neopelasgian words, Latin or Greek, Turkish, Slavic or other, the skeleton appears in its nakedness idiom hard, almost eolodorien or wind, approaching all-in-fact of dialects in the epigrams etched old, or sung by the rhapsodies and Aedes oldest Greek.

Page 49
Rhapsodies in Homer, despite all the corrections implied by the Athenians, we find many words in use among the Homeric Albanians, which argues for the antiquity of the Albanians.

Page 57
The Albanians finally mourn their dead in the Homeric way women (date, the Albanian-oAoXu xXatmoi;, oXoXi5Ço>), repeating the words izi, oïzi = black, unhappy.
Homer used this word once oizôc Curiously, the word zi, Zia returned to each moment in the archaic inscription found on Lemnos, cited by the Honourable Dr. Apostolides.
This word means in Albanian sepulchral still mourning and phrase na zia erd wind that we came into mourning.
What makes some scientists argue that the language of the inscription resembles Albanian, this relic of Pelasgian, especially as the island of Lemnos was home exclusively to the Pelasgians until the time of Miltiades, who occupied
Conclusion:
The inclusion of the island of Lemnos has been writen in language Pelasgian, the Pelasgians were not completely absorbed and they are back with their descendants, shqiptar or Albanians, as well as history and linguistic prove.

+ Catholic world, Volume 113
Paulist Fathers, Making of America Project
Paulist Fathers, 1921
The Pelasgians occupied the Balkan Peninsula, and were divided into several tribes. Those forming the Kingdom of Illyria gave much trouble to the Romans, but were finally subdued.
[…]
Until recently, it was thought that the Macedonians and Epirots were two tribes of Greek people, but now is the belief of scholars that neither of this was Greeks, but the forefathers of Albanians.
p.90

+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/297593_299396623407165_151427651537397_1375816_131 4839211_n.jpg

+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/58038_152771774770600_100001133356751_250181_43132 84_n.jpg

+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/148280_152465401467904_100001133356751_248831_6156 911_n.jpg

+ Dodona-Illyrians
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/164299_152265134821264_100001133356751_247896_7710 42_n.jpg

+ Early Sparta (Edition reprint, illustrated), George Leonard Huxley - Irish University Press, 1970
"Pelasgian Zeus of Dodona was also called Pelastian, ie Philistine (vl ad Iliad 16.233). The Pelasgian wall at Athens (Hekataios FGrHist 1 F 127) was also named Pelastikon (Hesych. sv IleXcumKov). These are variant forms of the Illyrian place name Palaiste, a possible starting-point of the Philistine migration."
On the equation of Pelasgian and Philistine: J. Berard, Studies Presented to David Moore Robinson I (St Louis 1951) 148

+ Ridpath's history of the world (1897)
Ridpath, John Clark, 1840-1900 Volume: 2
New York, Merrill & Baker
We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race.
[...]
Now it was, however, that the Illyrians and men of Epirus constituted a breakwater against the floods. For a long time they maintained a defensive attitude against the Teutonic and Slavonic races on the north and west. At length the Mohammedans came in from the East, and the people whom we may now call Albanians had to face about and defend themselves against Islam. The Turks made little headway against this resolute enemy. A popular leader appeared in the celebrated George Castriota, whom the Turks called Scanderbeg. Time and again Mohammed II, after his conquest of Constantinople, set his armies against the Albanians, only to suffer defeat at their hands.
[...]

This is to say that the modern Greeks and the Albanians are at the end of the twigs of the first branch of the Aryan tree which we have been considering.
[...]
Thus we have presented for our consideration the modern Greek and Albanian races as the repre sentatives of the first division of the old Aryan family of mankind.

+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/69863_139657476082030_100001133356751_188888_75743 06_n.jpg

+ The genesis of the earth and of man, a critical examination of passages in ... By Edward William Lane, Reginald Stuart Poole
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/67566_139408832773561_100001133356751_187150_52549 48_n.jpg

+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/66302_139467896100988_100001133356751_187475_26454 36_n.jpg

+ Epir
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/74563_143666919014419_100001133356751_206374_24550 06_n.jpg

+ https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/149972_143666025681175_100001133356751_206369_3547 423_n.jpg

+ Epir: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/149972_143666029014508_100001133356751_206370_6213 782_n.jpg


+ The Cradle of Pelasgian and Albanian people
http://www.albpelasgian.com/epir-the-cradle-of-pelasgian-and-albanian-people.html

+ http://www.zeriyt.com/epir-a%EF%BF%BD%E2%80%9C-the-cradle-of-pelasgian-and-albanian-people-t62942.0.html

+ http://www.topix.com/forum/world/albania/THE72A15HDVTAOF0B/p10

+ http://www.thelosttruth.altervista.org/SitoEnglish/pelasgian_etruscan_english.html

+ Epirus, its Illyrian affiliation
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5884

+ Epirus Land of Illyrian tribes
http://www.albanian.com/v4/showthread.php?t=13199

+ Thracians and Macedonians
http://www.albanian.com/v4/showthread.php?t=15097&page=2


DNA:
"HLA Class I Polymorphism in the Albanian Population" Z. Grubi}1, V. Kerhin-Brklja~i}1, E. ^e~uk-Jeli~i}1, S. Kuci2 and A. Ka{telan1 1 National Referral Organ Transplantation and Tissue Typing Center, University Hospital Center Zagreb, Zagreb, Croatia 2 Faculty of Medicine Prishtina, Prishtina, Kosovo

Link: http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache...n&ct=clnk&cd=1
Link: http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/15462 ne file PDF
Link of the central portal of Croatian scientific journals: http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=...ak_jezik=15462

2) Studim tjeter: "High-Resolution Phylogenetic Analysis of Southeastern Europe Traces Major Episodes of Paternal Gene Flow Among Slavic Populations"when:"Almost 93% of SEE E3b1 chromosomes are classified into ALPHA cluster. In Europe, the highest E3b1a variance is among Apulians, Greeks, and Macedonians, and the highest frequency of the cluster is among Albanians, Macedonians,and Greeks (table 1)." If you make a total % of albanians of albania and albanians of kosovo all Albanians have the max Erb1-a freq. After them are the aromenians (latinized balkan substract). And then after the greeks and apulians. http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/re...22/10/1964.pdf

Another study: Cruciani concluded that the distribution of the E3b1-alpha cluster in Europe indicates a Neolithic or post-Neolithic expansion out of the Balkans into Europe that spread as far west as the Iberian peninsula, and southeast to Turkey. STR diversity analysis gives an estimate of about 8 thousand years ago for that expansion

Another study: Semino: It's interesting to note that another recent study concluded that a J sub-group, J2e1 (J-M102), also expanded into Europe from the Balkans during the Neolithic period. Most likely due to genetic drift, Kosovar Albanians harbor a J2e frequency peak whereas variance maximum declines from the southeastern edge of the studied region

Here you have an explanation about E3b1a (from alfa claster):
Link: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....g/YCC_E3b.html

About J2e:
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache...n&ct=clnk&cd=3

According to Semino: The footprint of J2e1 (M102) on the European map indicates some sort of connection between the southern Balkans and north-central Italy. One possible explanation is that J2e1 may have dispersed into Europe from the Balkans.Some of the highest frequencies that Semino et al saw for J2e1 were Albania (14.3% of total population), north-central Italy (9.6%), Greece (6.5%) Croatia etc Semino et al estimated the date of the M102 mutation at about 8000 years ago."

First of all Albanian and kosovars are the same peoples. The max frequencies of J2e are among Albanians, the some for E3b1. This 2 Haplogroupe are belived to exist there before the Roman arivals.(J2e% + E3b1a% = 16 + 45 = 61%) All this 2 haplogroup have max freq in albanians and this is a sign of distinction from slavs. In 2000 BC there have been different migration in to balkan no one can say there have ben only one haplogroup.

3) Another study: “Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations”
Link: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...f/5200443a.pdf

4) Another study from Cavalli-Sforza: The Albanians show considerable genetic distances with all the populations; however, 14 pair of comparisons between the Albanians and the European populations show a high level of identity. (This is for all Albanians not kosovars only) This is a Correlation function not the sum of the Haplogroupe. And by this function that we conclude that Albanians & Kosovars have one of the strongest Dna identity in Balkans. By a correlation of 14 values. It is not the some for greeks (Greeks have a SE identity but not a greek one)

5) Another study, called “Survey of anthropological features of the Illyrians": The purpose of this paper is to bring to evidence the physical traits of the ancient inhabitants of Albania, the Illyrians, through an anthropological study of 93 human skeletons of different periods. Based on the available typological data the author comes to the conclusion that the Illyrians of the Albanian territory constituted an Adriatic-Mediterranean population with Nordic and Alpine minorities. The results of this study throw light on certain historical phenomena, which are linked with the origin and formation of the Illyrians"
This survey have shown that Albanians of today are the direct descendents of Illirian-Thraco race!
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...ubmed_RVDocSum

This study is in only 6 universities, where 2 of these universities are located in Germany:
1-Charite - Universitaetsmedizin Berlin, Medizinische Bibliothek, Germany
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

2-Universitaets- und Landesbibliothek Duesseldorf, Germany
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

3-Biblioteche Universitarie e dell' Area di Bologna , ITALI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

4-Harvard University Library ne SHBA
http://sfx.hul.harvard.edu/sfx_local..._char_set=utf8

5- University of Calgary Library, Canada
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

6- University of Vermont Dana Medical Library ne SHBA
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

6) Another study: “Haplogroup E3b1a2 as a Possible Indicator of Settlement in Roman Britain by Soldiers of Balkan Origin" Steven C. Bird .
Steve Bird for albanians:the genetic evidence would seem to support a much greater Thracian presence, in line with the rest of the Balkan peninsula, but at a higher percentage. In a spirit of compromise, they are sometimes also described as "Thraco-Illyrians," a blending of the two "barbarian" tribal groups north of the Greeks.
Link: http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.pdf

7) Another study that have shown the ancient origin of the Albanians, called:
"Paleo-mtDNA analysis and population genetic aspects of old
Thracian populations from South-East of Romania"
Link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/326027/Pal...ast-of-Romania

"As we can notice in the latter alignment, the Thracian individuals have shown informative point mutations in 7 np, the Romanian, Greek and Alban individuals in 8 np, the Italian individuals in 7 np and the Bulgarian individuals in only 5 np out of the 12 most informative nucleotide positions presented above.
As concerns the frequency of point mutations in the 12 nucleotide positions we have realized that the Italian individuals show the highest mutation frequency with 12.5 %, followed by the Thracian individuals with 8.3 %, the Alban individuals with 7.5 %, the Romanian and Greek individuals with 6.25 % and the Bulgarian individuals with only 4.6 %.
Computing the frequency of common point mutations of the present-day European population with the Thracian population has resulted that the Italian (7.9 %), the Alban (6.3 %) and the Greek (5.8 %) have shown a bias of closer genetic kinship with the Thracian individuals than the Romanian and Bulgarian individuals (only 4.2%)."

+ genetic info: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=152265138154597&l=53a0cd559a
Albanian people belong to the older Mediterraneans according to linguistic and genetic parameters; they would have establish in the Balkans before Greeks and Slavs...
Greeks have been shown by both genetic and historical data that do not belong to the ancient genetic pool.They are relative new-comers because the Indoeuropean (pre-Mycaenian) Greeks came to the Balkanic Peninsula by 2.000 BC paid tribute to Minoans, and destroy their empire by 1.450 BC; they absorbed Minoan culture and writing system and built their own Aegean Sea empire (Arnaiz-Villena et al 1999a). Greeks remain as outliers in all our HLA genetic analyses (Table 6 and unpublished)...

1.Albanians have a Illyro-Thracian ancestry. I even think that TOSK dialekt is a thraco-etruskan language. The Italians have a greater percentage of Thracian blood because latino-albano-etruscans are the descendents of Trojans who fled from destroyed land Phrygo-Thracians(after troyan war).

2.But I dont want to choice to discredit the greeks from their race. Usually this method works as boumerang in this area were the race is the same (even that we have to mention here the later arrivals, like slavs) but cultures are different. And Albanians are the biggest losers in these areas, until the year 1999 (when the World decided to prevent the total disappearance of this ancient culture, in the name of humanism, wile the whole World was watching this time, thanks to mass medias this time, who makes the difference whith ancient times). So, don't make me to deal whith the race, becacause I'm trying to discredit their propaganda, their chauvinism, and their atrocities against Albanians, NOT their race.

- Albanians are not like slavo-macedonians to offend the other ethnic groups just for chauvinistic pourpouses. We have nothing against the greeks, they are our neigbours and if we want to be respected we must show some dignity not to fall in the same level of slavo-macedonians. The real enemies stand behind what is called "greek nation". These people mostly living in mount Athos and in some government buildings are the real people who need a DNA test. I bet the result would be: blood from another solar-system.

+ http://soul-of-the-pillar.blogspot.com/2010/11/pelasgians-and-etruscansgreek-alphabet.html

+ http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/mand001schi01_01/mand001schi01_01_0289.php

+ http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26281-European-civilization-in-the-midst-of-Asia&

+ Researches in Greece:
Romaico-Arvanetic vocabulary
Arvanites=Albanian-Skipetar
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/researches_in_greece-296.png

+ Dictonary Latino Epiroticum, per R.D. Franciscus Blanchus https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/60554_129389743775470_100001133356751_144013_15052 8_n.jpg

Info + Alban/Albon/Albanian/Arberian/Arban/Arbon/Arbanians/Arvanites/Arnauts... when Illyrian and Thracian tribes intermarried so much around the albani tribe in todays center of Albania, from permanent withdrawal of that piece of Illyrian/Thracian (pelasgians) tribes who still survive the assimilation, after their collection around Balkan mountains, they change their name in "the sons of the eagle"-Shkypetar/Skipetar/Shqiptar, that represent or summarized in the best way their ancient identity
(and thousands of other books, from the ancient writers, to today...)

P.S: Anyone who want to reply me about these questions, and he don't want to proceed spaming here, he have to quote all my sentences one by one (for the sake of the rules of communiaction) because I'm doing the same from the 2 page here, when some pseudo nationlists (even racists) started to deviate the topic, whith their personal complexes about the autochthony of albanians. Otherwise, if you don't have what to say about these questions, start to write about the topic or leave at all.

So, can we proceed to discuss the topic, and not for complexes or each defendant here about the basic components of history in general, who can not differ the Colonizers from Indigenous and all their arguments came only from the period of history, when that area was conquered or colonized and all their occupation maps, replaced toponyms, atrocities or these kind of materials, are shown here like a arguments against the occupied people there.

mrikë
16-10-11, 14:23
what book and what edition you have?

the original word as used by both Attaleiates and Anna komneni is Αρβανιτες, and are recogned as the Sicilian Guard in the Army of Maniakis

according these books Arbanites came from Sicily by Maniakis at his revolt to gain the Throne,

the penguin 1969 and the Late Barbara Hill (author) indeed use the word Albani but is translation,

search the original text in Greek-Byzantine of Kurtz 1907 of the epos Αλεξιας (Alexiad)

All edition after 1928 use the term Albanoi only the original and the old edition of 1907 use the word Αρβανιτεc

sorry but when you read something read the original.


4.8.4 Ὁ δὲ βασιλεὺς τοὺς ἑλιγ μοὺς τῶν παρακειμένων ὀρῶν καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν δύσβατον ἀτραπὸν ἐν δυσὶ νυχθημέροις διεξελθὼν καταλαμβάνει τὴν Ἀχρίδα. Ἐν δὲ τῷ μεταξὺ τὸν Χαρζάνην διελθὼν καὶ μικρὸν περὶ τὴν καλουμένην Βαβαγορὰν ἐγκαρτερήσας (τέμπος δ' αὕτη δύσβατόν ἐστι), μήθ' ὑπὸ τῆς ἥττης μήθ' ὑπὸ τῶν ἄλλων τοῦ μόθου κακῶν τὸν νοῦν συγχυθεὶς μήθ' ὑπὸ τῆς κατὰ τὸ μέτωπον τοῦ τραύματος ὀδύνης ὑποχα λάσας, κἂν τὰ ἐντὸς ὑπὸ τῆς λύπης τῶν ἐν τῇ μάχῃ πε πτωκότων καὶ μᾶλλον τῶν γενναίως ἀγωνισαμένων ἀνδρῶν ἐξεφλέγετο. Ἀλλ' ὅμως τῆς πόλεως ὅλος ἦν Δυρραχίου καὶ ταύτης ἐμέμνητο ἀχθόμενος ὅτι ἄτερ ἡγεμόνος κατα λέλειπτο τοῦ Παλαιολόγου διὰ τὴν ὀξεῖαν συμβολὴν τοῦ πολέμου μὴ δυνηθέντος ἐπαναστρέψαι. Καὶ ὡς ἐνὸν τοὺς κατ' αὐτὴν ἠσφαλίσατο καὶ τὴν τῆς ἀκροπόλεως φρουρὰν τοῖς ἐκκρίτοις Βενετίκοις τῶν ἐκεῖσε ἀποίκων ἀνέθετο, τὴν δέ γε ἐπίλοιπον πᾶσαν πόλιν τῷ ἐξ Ἀρβάνων ὁρμω μένῳ Κομισκόρτῃ τὰ συνοίσοντα, διὰ γραμμάτων ὑποθέμενος.

Original text by Kurtz edition. 1907

in Book six we read a battle of Robert with Γεωργιος in Αυλωνα Κορυφω Επιδαμνον και Δυρραχιον Μοσυνουπολις
the ones you change to Vlore Korce Durress Voskopolje Like the turks did
and the adventures of Robert in minor Asia
there is not a mention in book six, only city names which i gave


now you may reconsider your thesis,
and ask for sorry cause your Nationalism blinds you,


again you are wrong if you read Arabantinos Thomopoulos A.Kolla and the others,
they are fairy tellers

Arbanon and arbanites is the form until about 1400-1500 after 14-1500 we find 1rst time the word Albanoi again as albanites
the reform from arb to Alb although is yet unknown why,
probably an inner name, or more good sound or pronounce,
or by the Hunyades and Al from ALBA Lullia, or when got in touch with Turks, or by th Anju
Cause at Progoni time the official name was Arberia

Besides the latin from was Urbanites from Urban or Urbanon
possible difference from Villachi who lived in villas

Next time you provoke me or insult me plz have the correct text and a translation.

It is another story to be proud of what you are, and another story to be proud by something that you are not, and try to convice your self with fake History

except if ironically Anna komnene knew English and wrote original in English
or your Translator was Zeus10


Guys again plz stop reading History by Zeus10
To be honest I don't see where this discussion could possibly lead us. You base your entire way of reasoning on the supposedly granted fact that everyone on the entire planet is illiterate, and cannot read a few lines of the Alexiad. And your irrational assumption that Arvanites are not Albanians simply makes it clear to me that I cannot enter your specter of reason therefore we can never have a civilized discussion. Consider this ended and do not sweat yourself on making pseudo-sarcastic comments.

Yetos
16-10-11, 15:19
that is the difference part of Albanians is Arbanites,
But Arbanites are not ALbanians,

Devils Advocate
06-11-11, 01:27
that is the difference part of Albanians is Arbanites,
But Arbanites are not ALbanians,

Lets see if I got this right, you are saying that "Arvanites" are not albanian is that it? If so then you are heavily mistaken. It is a know FACT that the "Arvanit" language is an Albanian Dialect (Which newely was made an own dialect of albanian in the same line as Geg, Tosk and Arbresh). I'll see if I can find the link for this.

Devils Advocate
06-11-11, 01:03
also on topic, fustanella is albanian : as the -greeks- themselves are saying here : youtube.com/watch?v=p98D7Fql1Dk (Greek tv channel). And the Greek of today need to get used to the fact that albanians fought with the greeks in WW2, like it or not.

Yetos
06-11-11, 01:36
also on topic, fustanella is albanian : as the -greeks- themselves are saying here : youtube.com/watch?v=p98D7Fql1Dk (Greek tv channel). And the Greek of today need to get used to the fact that albanians fought with the greeks in WW2, like it or not.

if you read correct all the posts then youu might understand Kontea and fustanella

about who fought who is another story,
just read about Xilia and SSS (ssscanderberg)
i know that many helped the Greek army when the war with Italy happened but I also know that 10 000 Albanians join the Italian Forces.

Devils Advocate
06-11-11, 04:10
if you read correct all the posts then youu might understand Kontea and fustanella

about who fought who is another story,
just read about Xilia and SSS (ssscanderberg)
i know that many helped the Greek army when the war with Italy happened but I also know that 10 000 Albanians join the Italian Forces.

My bad on the fustanella and kontea part, I'll look closer into it.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:00
Albanien People is not Illyrien !!! Prof.Dr.Kaplan Resuli

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:09
Albanien People is not Illyrien !!! John Wilkes ( journalist, politiker,autor )

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:11
Albanien People is not Illyrien !!! DNK ist fakt

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:11
Albanien People is from Transilvania.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:13
Albanien language is SATEM !!!
Illyrian language is KENTUM !!!

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:13
Albanian from 1912 j.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:14
Albanian history is propaganda !!!

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:15
Albanian People is not Balkan people !!!

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:15
Skenderbeg is not Albaner !!!

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:16
Epirus people is not Albaner people !!!

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:18
The Albanian racism towards the neighbours is based on historical falsifications (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120887/posts)
Stanford University ^ (http://www.freerepublic.com/%5Ehttp://www.stanford.edu/%7Ecakarz/articles/KaplanResuli-english.pdf) | 02/25/2003 | Vitomir Dolinski
Posted on Dienstag, 20. April 2004 09:34:15 by Nennsy (http://www.freerepublic.com/%7Enennsy/)
Vitomir Dolinski: An interview with the persecuted albanian academic prof. Dr. Kaplan Resuli


The Albanian racism towards the neighbours is based on historical falsifications
VD: - You are regarded as a unique, albanian Mandela, but also as a political prisoner-record holder on the Balkan. For the insufficiently informed, at the beginning, tell us briefly about this?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - In former Yugoslavia I was sentenced two years strict imprisonment, allegedly for propaganda against the socialism and the “brotherhood and unity”. After I served the punishment to the last day in the jail Idrizovo, wishing to escape to the Soviet Union I got stuck in Albania with which the USSR exactly those days severed its diplomatic relations. After the ten-year internment I was arrested by the albanian authorities and sentenced 43 years of a most monstrous imprisonment, again allegedly for antigovernment propaganda, in possession of some revolver without license, preparing to escape and for insulting the investigator. Thus, in total I am sentenced 45 years, of which 37 for antigovernment propaganda, with which I think that I am the most heavily sentenced political prisoner on the Balkan and maybe I am a unique world record holder. Actually, if it wasn’t for the (political) changes in Albania I would probably have still been in jail today. To this sentence needs to be added the severed marriage in Yugoslavia, in which fortunately I didn’t have any children and also the second marriage, in Albania, in which I had two children. During the whole time of my incarceration, not only that I wasn’t allowed to see my children, but I didn’t even know if they were alive. No one was allowed to visit me, or to give me a piece of bread. Not even the other prisoners. Those who did that were punished and the poet Gani Shkudra, who came to see me, not only that they didn’t allow him to see me, but in front of the jail, on the spot, they arrested him and sentenced him with 10 years imprisonment, allegedly for political propaganda. The only transgression attributed to him in the accusation is recorded as: “he had gone to the jail Burel to see the public enemy Kaplan Resuli and brought him bread”. While I was languishing in the infamous jail Burel, ten times they skinned me alive, literally, wanting from me to abandon my yugoslavian (montenegrin) citizenship, the yugoslavian (montenegrin) nationality, my ideals, even my children. They were forcing me to declare myself an Albanian, not only as citizen, but in nationality (ethnicity). Several times they attempted to liquidate me, even after I was released from jail, three times they have attempted to assassinate me – twice in Tirana and once in Geneva. The Albanians themselves, not only my friends, but even the others who were antagonistic towards me, while I was in my jail cells, pronounced me an albanian Mandela. Even my most open adversary, the albanian writer Ismail Kadare, those days, the beginning of the nineties, in his attempts to befriend the european circles and Amnesty International who were involved in my freeing, did not shirk from naming me a martyr and a hero of Albania.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:19
VD: - Before we turn towards that period and to Your specific relationship with the most famous, but undoubtedly the most controversial person of the albanian academy, as well, Ismail Kadare, lets return to the most important phases of your creative activities which led to Your wider literary and scientific affirmation?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - In Dubrovnik in 1952 I published the poem “Bojana” in which I openly named Yugoslavia and Albania, Golgotha, in which the people struggle and suffer. I was instantly called on the phone by my “countryman” Milovan Gjilas who then threatened me that he will squeeze my head so hard that instead of singing I would begin to wail. And it turned out thus. I hear in Yugoslavia he is regarded as the No.1 dissident. If truly there is no other person, then I know that I was that at least a little bit before him.
VD: - Your first jail sentence, unfortunately, occurred to You in Macedonia, where for some time in that period You worked as an educator?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - Yes, I was a tutor in Tetovo when they arrested me. As it can be seen from the charges, in Macedonia I had done nothing wrong. I was accused that, allegedly, I had been involved in an antigovernment propaganda in Montenegro. And because I was and am a montenegrin citizen, the court proceedings should have been there, in my birth town of Ulcinj. The reason for my prosecution in Tetovo was that there I didn’t have any relatives and UDBa (yugoslavian state security), which knew that I am absolutely innocent, was afraid that my prosecution among my Ulcinj people could provoke some unwanted problems. For that reason it ordered my prosecution in Tetovo, behind closed doors. Although I am not from Tetovo, the people of this town, especially my students knew me well, as a professor and as a writer. Along the streets of the town from the court to the jail I was greeted with an open support from many of them and most likely for many of them it will be interesting to know that the key UDBa witness against me was then their collaborator, now allegedly a big fighter for the albanian cause, Adem Demaçi. The state prosecutor in his concluding talk, accusing me as “agens spiritus” of the yugoslavian youth against the regime and seeking to be charged as such, stated that I had been and hoped that I will continue to be in future, as well, a “constructive citizen” of Yugoslavia. It is interesting that Fatos Nano (albanian socialist premier) after my release from jail, here in Geneva described me as a “constructive citizen” of Albania, asking me to return there, in Tirana.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:22
VD: - Your first more significant life’s disappointment, You said, implanted in You the idea to leave for the Soviet Union, but fate wanted again to play with you in a brutal fashion and “retain” You many years in the albanian jail Burel?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - True, that was some time after my completion of the jail sentence in Idrizovo. Burel was not a jail, but a place of horror. While in Idrizovo they would say “You are not here for us to fatten you up, but to count your bones” in Burel it was: “This place is called Burel, where one can get in, but can not get out”.
VD: - The numerous works which You wrote here most likely helped You to strengthen your spirit and, eventually, to survive. Actually, exactly here is created your most famous work, the novel “Treason”?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - From approximately 200,000 pages written during those thirty years, half of them I succeeded in transferring out of jail and to have them here, in Geneva. The other part was taken from me by the authorities and I have no idea what has happened with them. The novel “Treason”, otherwise, the Albanians themselves proclaimed it as a masterpiece of the albanian literature. One of the most eminent albanian critics, Prof. Tajar Zavaljani, even described it as the only worthy work published in Albania after World War II. That type of reception for the novel in Albania and amongst the albanian diaspora perturbed Enver Hoxha (Hodzha) who was attempting to establish his likeminded relative Ismail Kadare as the greatest albanian literary. That is why all of a sudden they “discovered” that I had not written the novel, attempting even to physically eliminate me, but it had been the work of Adem Demaçi (Demaky), for whom they were hoping that, in the meantime, he would perish in the yugoslavian jails. Since Demaçi got out of jail alive and I also survived, now, via the printed media, they have widened a campaign against me, unseen in the history of mankind, which, imagine, the novel had been written for me by UDBa, in order to establish myself with it in Albania and thus usurp the government from Enver.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:23
V.D. - Thus far twice, in similar context, You mentioned Kadare and I would like to remind You of 1991 when Amnesty International, as well, engages in the requests for Your release from jail and, absurdly, the one who attempted to block it was none other, but Kadare. How, actually, could that be explained?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - Kadare is catapulted in the West by Ramiz Alija and the widow of Enver Hoxha, with a well planned mission. At that time it was only one of his missions – to diminish my credibility amongst the albanian public and the diaspora, fearing that I may unmask them, spoiling their future plans. For that reason, not only in private, as was the case with Adem Demaçi, but also publicly, at meetings and via the printed media he barked against me and would accuse me, as they were instructing him from Tirana. Kadare and Demaçi are the main conspirators in of the most monstrous demonstrations in the history of mankind, when they strirred the albanian professors and students at Prishtina university to demonstrate in February 1991 against my release from jail.
VD: - On the subject “Kadare” You have up till now written much, to which special attention in the albanian public, but also in the european community have attracted Your books “The true face of Ismail Kadare” and “The lies do not alter the truth”. When, actually, began Your rivalry and what is, as You have mentioned, his well planned mission?

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:24
Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - In these books, actually, with documents and with facts, but also with his own self confessions, I have proven that he is catapulted in the West as an agent of Sigurimi (albanian state security), because he was that from always. As a principal ideolog of Enver, with secret interpretations on our works he was “passing judgment” for our maltreatments, internments and arrests. Actually, this was publicly stated, on Albanian Radio-Television in 1996 by the former head of Sigurimi, Zylfiar Ramizi, verifying that Kadare was in their service under the pseudonym General. He was a provocateur trained by Sigurimi to accuse anyone who, according to him, stood in his way, as he did that with me. And why? Because academic professor Dimitar Suterilji, in his principal paper which he read out at the second Congress of Albanian Writers, placed my name and novel before his. At one plenum of the Union in 1966 I openly criticised him, which enraged him, as he was not used to being criticised. Much later, after my release from jail, a major from Sigurimi involved in my arrest openly declared that, although totally innocent, they had arrested me because they had received a secret 12-page long accusation against me and my activities, exactly from Kadare. In the meantime, he totally put his pen and talent in the service of his benefactor Enver whose political speeches he was transforming into poems and novels. I don’t know if you are aware of the fact that Kadare published a complimentary poem lauding Enver’s “patriotic” dog, which somewhere at the border catches and pulls apart some unfortunate Albanian, only because the poor soul attempted to escape from Enver’s paradise. These are only a few pieces of evidence about the moral profile of the “great” literary and “certain” Nobel prize winner Ismail Kadare, whose main preoccupation today is to poison and deceive the West with the albanian historical falsifications about the alleged famous illiryan-albanian past and culture, which, what absurdity, had suffered multi-centuries harm from the activities of its surrounding barbaric “slavic” peoples.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:24
VD: - This is, I think, an opportune moment to begin our discussion for Your third, certainly an important segment, as well, of Your writings – the scientific-research work. You have published numerous works from the sphere of the albanian historiography and linguistics, which brought You significant prestige, scientific titles and also an honorary membership in the Albanian Science Academy. When did actually begin Your scientific interest for the Albanology?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - Already in 1995 at the university of Skopje it became clear to me that there will not be peace on the Balkan until the albanian question is clarified. For that reason I switched from the law faculty to the albanological studies and here, contrary to what was being said and written not only by the albanian, but also by our, yugoslavian scholars, contrary to what is being taught not only in the albanian language schools (in Albania, as well as in Macedonia), but also in the schools of “south-slavic” languages, I discovered that not only the Albanians are not autochthonous people, but they are also not related in any way to the Pelasgians or the Illyrians. Understandably, not one of the professors in albanology has said this to me. They still continued with the tale that allegedly Albanians are autochthonous pelasgoillyrian descendants. I discovered that by chance, studying the albanian language, which, all agree, is of the type SATEM. According to that global division of languages, researching the illyrian language I discovered that it is of the type KENTUM. The most elementary logic was saying to me that one SATEM language can not be a direct descendant, not even a kind of derivative of some KENTUM language, without a change of its substrate. Since the albanian language does not have any changes in its substrate, that means that the Albanians can’t be, under any circumstance, genealogical descendants of the Illyrians. Later I discovered this, as well, in the works of the world renown professors and scholars Paul, Hirt, Vaigand, Tomashek, Georgiev, Puscariu and many others, who with numerous scholarly arguments, linguistic and historical, have proven that the Albanians not only do not have anything in common with the Illyrians, not only that they are not autochthonous at any place in the Balkan, but they are not even autochthonous in the territories of modern day Albania. Vaigand for example has formulated 12 arguments. To all of those I’ve added another five. Unfortunately, these scientists are not being mentioned in (the study) Albanology, nor in Albania, nor aret they mentioned in Yugoslavia, or in Macedonia, because the albanian professors consciously hide the truth about the origins of the Albanians and, instead of it (the truth), to their pupils and students they serve up the lies about their autochthony and illyrian origin. Via those lies they poison the whole nation. This is not done accidentally, but with the aim to incite the Albanians against the neighbouring nations, thus, hooking them on the “fishing line” of some invented, wide ethnic territories, to use them as cannon fodder for the interests of some criminalised leaders and the international Capital. The primary motive that inspired me to oppose the albanian pseudo science about their illyrian origin was the truth, the love for the truth, my special inclination towards it, but second and equally as important motive was the fact that, watching the Albanians being breast-fed with chauvinism and racism, are being encouraged to fight their neighbouring peoples (nations), I was hoping that if the truth is explained to them, they will move away from the tales, legends and myths about their autochthony and illyromania, thus ceasing with their inexcusable and baseless hatred towards their neighbours.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:25
VD: - How did the albanian public receive Your albanological research and discoveries?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - Once even Enver Hoxha was forced to admit that the albanian science lacks scientific objectivity. The albanian poet Mimoza Erebara in the Science Academy asked them directly what was the situation with my scientific discoveries. They had told her: “We know that very well even before Kaplan, but now is not the time for all of that to be told” Since in the publication “YLBERI” (comes out since 1993, in Geneva) and especially through my albanological collection THE ILLYRIANS AND THE ALBANIANS I demonstrated in written form my points of view, the albanian academic Vincents Golleti, in the printed media stated: “The stances of Kaplan Burovikj about the albanological problems, especially on the problem of the origin of the Albanians, need to be greeted most warmly, while the studies which he publishes in relation with those problems should be propagated throughout the whole of the scholarly world”. After him followed the albanian scholar Dr. Adrian Qosi who in the middle of Tirana openly opposed the hypothesis about the illyrian origin of the Albanians. With me agreed, via the printed media, several other younger scholars of whom I would especially mention Fatos Ljubonja, Prof. Adrian Vebiu and others. I can say that today appeared a group of new albanian scholars who do not agree with the false myths and courageously accept the scientific truth. I am proud that I lead this group and that they took up from me the necessary scholarly courage. Because, believe me, that is not easy at all, as the extreme albanian nationalists, chauvinists and racists led by Ismail Kadare, through the most severe forms of chicanery and satanising are attempting to silence us at any cost. The mentioned Dr Adrian Klosi when he stated that the hypothesis for the illyrian origin of the Albanians is unfounded, added: “But it is better not to talk about that because they will declare us anti Albanians”. And they did.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:27
VD: - Since when actually dates the oldest evidence for the existence of the Albanians and the albanian language?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - The oldest evidenced text in an albanian language is “Formula ë paleximit” (Formula for communion), translated from Latin in 8-11-1462 by the Montenegrin Pavle Angjelich, whom the Albanians have albanised with the name Pal Engylli. The first book in albanian is “Meshari” (The Book of Thoughts), a manual for religious sermons, dates from 1555 and is written by the Croatian Ivan Buzuk and published in Montenegro. And, understandably, they albanise him with the name Gjon Buzuku. For your information, the first primer in albanian, after the proclamation of the albanian independence is a work of “Slavs” and Vlachs. Dositej Obradovich is the first in history who opens a school in albanian language, while it was exactly Serbia which was the first state to recognise independent Albania. The Macedonians have a significant input in the development of the albanian culture. For example, one of the oldest publishers in Albania is the Macedonian Petar Budi (1566-1622) who has published three books in albanian, and also a Macedonian is Jovan Kukuzel, whom the Albanians have claimed as their own and have albanised with the name Jan Kukuzeli, although it is known that when he was born in Drach, XI century, here there still is not even one Albanian. Let me remind you also of Grigor Prlichev (1830-1893) who for some time is a teacher in Tirana and published the wonderful poem “Skenderbeg”. Undeniable is the fact that always at the forefront of all of their positive processes the Albanians had namely non Albanians. Lets mention, as well, at this opportune time only Georgi Kastriot – Skenderbeg, of an undeniable “slavic” ancestry, Naim Frasheri (a Vlach, an albanian national poet) or Fan Noli (a Greek, whose real name is Theofanos Mavromatis), Petar Bogdan, a Serb, or Ismail Kemali, a Turk who was proclaiming the albanian independence in 1912. As you can see, the foundations of the albanian culture and statehood are laid by non Albanians, from which a large number are “Slavs”, but that does not stand in the way of the albanian nationalists, or “marxists-leninists”, all the same, to thump their chests and declare that they have achieved everything by themselves and that the other people (nations), especially the “Slavs” have only been their enemies.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:27
VD: - Undeniable is the fact that in Albania the toponyms are, say, without exception “slavic”. To what is that owed?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - On the territory of today’s Albania, as has already been confirmed by the most distinguished world scholars, from whom I have already mentioned some, first settled the Slavs. In 548 A.D. they enter also in Durrachium (Drach, Durrls). The Albanians come via Transylvania (Romania) and Bulgaria much later, IX-X century. In the meantime, understandably, the Slavs have already named all mountains, valleys, rivers, towns and villages, and built some new ones, giving them their own names. When the Albanians arrive on the Balkan and today’s Albania, there is nothing else they can do except to take those toponyms. A large part of Albania is flooded with serbian and macedonian toponyms. Just as an example I wish to mention the towns of Pogradec, Korça (Korcha), Çorovoda (Chorovoda), Berat, Bozigrad, Leskovik, Voskopoja, Kuzova, Kelcira, Bels and others.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:28
VD: - In the macedonian community little is known that more than 90 percent of the lexical fund of the albanian language are words taken up from other languages. You especially have analysed the subject of the “slavisms” in the albanian language. It would be interesting some more to be said about this?
Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - For the first time I graduated in Skopje, exactly with the theme “Slavisms in the albanian language”. The second diploma, as well, at the university of Tirana, I defended with a linguistic theme. Especially in “The Dictionary of the Albanian Language in Ulcinj” I have elaborated the etymology of all words. Actually, it can be supposd that if the Turks did not come to the Balkans, the albanian language in not more than 100-200 years would have been completely “slavicised”. The serbian, macedonian and bulgarian languages have penetrated so much into the albanian language that they have flooded not only the lexicon, but they have displaced its phonetics, morphology and syntax. Besides the significant cultural prestige of these languages compared to the albanian, this is also due to the significant albanisation of not a small number of Serbs, Macedonians and Montenegrins, especially the ones who were previously islamised. As it is known, the Albanians have a strongly developed power of assimilation. That a good part of them by origin is Serbs, Macedonians or Montenegrins, is witnessed by their patrons, surnames, but many of them even today speak their “slavic” language. In Albania there are whole regions along the border, especially towards Macedonia, settled with a compact “slavic” population, which is even more numerous, lets say, than the Albanians in Macedonia.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:28
VD: - Lets talk a little also about the numerous ethnonyms which from the albanian side, often baselessly, are forced as synonyms. How come so many ethnic names for the Albanians?


Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - That, as well, witnesses the ethnogenesis of the Albanians after their arrival on the Balkan and populating the northern albanian mountains. I have already mentioned about the Illyrians, but the second ethnonym to which they pretend, the Dardanians, it is known, were not Illyrians, but Thracians. Even if they (Dardanians) had been Illyrians, again they haven’t any connection with the Albanians, because that kind of connection neither have the Illyrians themselves. Science has proven that very clearly. In respect of the Albanoi(an)s, they are a celtic tribe which on the territory of Albania, in the region Mat, arrives in the IV century BC. Today’s Albanians, actually, only much, much later take over their name, as have done today’s Bulgarians from the non slavic Bulgars of Asparuh, or today’s French, from the old germanic Franks, deforming the old celtic name Arlbn/Arlbr. Arbanasi is the other name with which our ancestors the “Slavs” are naming them during the Middle Ages. Arnauts is the name which the Turks use for them. It should be known that not all Arnauts were at the same time Albanians, as well. Because the Arnauts (Albanians) got a reputation as good hired hands in the turkish empire, the other mercenaries were also called Arnauts. That means that there were Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians ARNAUTS, because some of them are also islamised, thus as muslims they serve under the turkish flag not only as common soldiers, but also as arnauts (mercenaries). Skiptar (or Shiptar and deformed Shiftar, all originate from the albanian appellative Shqipltar) is the current national name of the Albanians, spread amongst them in the XVII-XIX century, influenced by the name Osman, as the Turks were naming themselves. Namely, osman in turkish is “eagle”, while in albanian it is “shquipe”. Thus the Albanians of muslim faith wanted to relate themselves with the muslims Turks, which was also the aim of the Porte, even of the original platform of the Prizren League, which originally is not albanian at all, but pan islamic. And if its primary aims succeeded, most probably the Albanians would not exist today because all of them in the meantime would have become Turks.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:29
VD: - Here as well, is the known division Ghegs-Toscs from which originates the known language question which, it seems, still has not been overcome by the Albanians?


Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - The language question in Albania is not settled even today. Although formally (and by force) Enver Hoxha established as a common, official language the Tosc dialect (until then it was the Gheg dialect), the Ghegs have not given up. They still continue to speak and write in their dialect, although they are persecuted and maltreated because of it. When in 1965 in Albania I published the novel “Treason” in the Gheg dialect the Albanians of northern Albania openly requested the language of this book to be declared as the literary and official language of Albania. That too was one of the reasons for my satanisation which still continues. You should know that the difference between the Tosc and the Gheg dialects is much bigger than the differences between some “slavic” languages, for example the macedonian and the serbian. From another side, more Albanians, about two thirds, speak in gheg, which is lexically richer, purer and also has much greater expressional opportunities. With the enforcement of the tosc dialect, which was of a pure political nature (motive), a crime has been perpetrated against the Albanians and their culture.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:30
VD: - One of the fallacies (delusions), unfortunately, it seems somehow silently accepted even outside of Albania is the so called monolithic nature of the albanian population in the Republic of Albania in which allegedly live 97-98% ethnic Albanians, for which You have already said something previously. What is, according to You, the reality in that respect in Albania?


Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - When Albania is proclaimed and recognised as an independent nation (1912-1913) its population numbered 700,000 of which hardly 50% were Albanians, while the other half was made up of Vlachs (around 20%), “Slavs” (Macedonians, Serbs, Montenegrins, around 15%),Greeks (around5%) and others (Turks, Roms, Cherkesians, Italians, Jews and others, around 10%). With the passing of time, mostly by force, with denial of all national rights, including the right to speak in their own languages at home, or to carry their own national family names, they are to a certain extent assimilated. But, even besides the such forced albanisation, in Albania even today over 30% of the population speaks a non albanian language and retains its non albanian national identity, although they are registered as Albanians, as they are not permitted to declare differently. The non albanian origins of the population of Albania is also evident from their surnames Bello, Blushi, Bogdani, Buda, Budi, Dida, Dobraci, Dragovoja, Dragusha, Haveri(ch), Kapisuzi(ch), Mexi, Millani, Milloshi, Mojsiu, Muzaka, Najdeni, Peku, Prela, Ruka, Sillil, Shkura, Shundi, Ziu and many others.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:30
VD: - In Your research You have also paid special attention to the ethnic expansion of the Albanians in the past 2-3 centuries towards its neighbouring (serbian, macedonian, greek and others) regions, for which now, the last several decades, to begin to proclaim exactly them as their “ethnic territories” in which they allegedly lived from eternity?


Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - This truly is absurd and, in any case it is good that there remain numerous proofs for their undeniable expansion, which I have integrally collected and published in my study “The origins of the Albanians in Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece”. One needs to be objective and tell the truth, not because of the truth itself, but because it will contribute toward overcoming of the many problems on the Balkan. That the Albanians only in the past couple of centuries have expanded admitted publicly, via the printed media, the most eminent contemporary albanian scientist, academic professor Elrem Cabej (Tsabej), who, forced by the numerous arguments, was unable, but to conclude that today’s territories on which the Albanians live are not “a zone of RESTRICTION”, but “a zone of EXPANSION”. And not only he! That also is verified in the “HISTORIA Ë SHQIPERISË” itself, compiled by the albanian scientists themselves.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:31
VD: - Recently from Tirana were launched some “evidences” about an existence of 14 million Albanians. Amongst the numerous “Albanians” who had indebted the world civilisation was included, as well, Alexander of Macedonia!?


Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - I’ve read that, as well. The albanian academic, Prof. Dr Skender Rizaj once even in his “scientific” works stated that, also all Serbs, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Bosnians and Herzegovians are, in reality, “slavicised” Albanians. By that method we should “admit” that they are not only 14, but possibly even 140 millions. I have already published a study about the “scientific” work “The Illyrians spoke albanian – The Albanians speak illyrian” published by Preloc Margiljaj. I would like to present for this suitable moment only a few short quotes which can also be found in other albanian historical-linguistic “experts”: “The Albanians are one of the oldest nations (peoples) in Europe” (page 438) “it is clear that Crete is the first fireplace of culture and civilisation in the aegean region and in Europe. Crete from the forgotten times of the past was settled with the pelasgian, rather the illyrian or albanian people, thus in Crete ruled the albanian language, which in other words, is the starting point and the first source of the european culture and civilisation”. (page296). Starting from this, this albanian “scientist” wants the albanian language to be taught in all schools around the world as a compulsory language because, according to him, without knowing that language it would not be possible to comprehend the world culture(!?). In respect of Alexander of Macedonia, even Enver Hoxha has written that he is an Albanian, expressing that also in one discussion with the indian ambassador in Tirana, as if personally he, Enver, had sent him to India, even as an ambassador to establish friendly relations between these two countries and peoples. These undoubtedly racist yearnings of the Albanians are certainly the result of their economic and cultural poverty, of their backwardness and late development in comparison with the other nations, amongst which are those of its neighbours, I would say of their frustration because of all of that.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:32
VD: - Do You believe, regardless, in the possibility that the young, unburdened scientists and politicians in Albania will accept the reality and they, abandoning the greater albanian dreams, to give their own contribution towards the development in real good-neighbourly relations?


Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - I do believe! I have already cited several names of such young scientists. I can also give you names of young politicians unburdened of the greater albanian yearnings. But they still don’t have the power for that, except their pens and good intentions, with which they can’t act freely because the albanian print media is strictly censured by the greateralbanians, and the streets of the cities, unfortunately, are still patrolled by gangsters who, in the service of the social-fascist band, are ready to hit anyone with a brick on the head or with a bullet in the forehead!

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:33
VD: - For ten years, as a political emigrant, You have been living in Geneva, Switzerland. Do you have an impression that the so called democratic Europe and the West, generally, understand our Balkan situations?


Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - Democratic Europe, I’m afraid, at least in respect of us, does not exist at all. The antidemocratic one, on the other hand, hand never understood them, nor want to understand our Balkan difficulties. Europe was and still is in the service of The Capital. Its “democracy” is only an expression of that Capital. It uses our Balkan peoples and situations for penetration (expansion) and for ruling the world, for its own battle against the true, real democracy and its carriers.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:34
VD: - Concordant with Your rich life experience, after all that in the past period happened on the Balkan, and which, sadly, culminated with several bloody wars, are You of the opinion that all of that, simply, had to happen?


Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - No! Absolutely not! All of that could and can, even needs to be solved without blood. Let the Albanians prove that even Moscow is theirs, thus give them even it. But until they prove that, they should not be given even one stone from our fatherlands, not only to prevent them from desecrating it, but in order to prevent them from smashing their own heads with it.

Historiker
05-03-12, 01:34
VD: - To conclude, I believe it would be interesting to hear Your prediction how the things could be developing in the near future?


Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - The Americans have reached their aim – on the Balkan they have installed their military bases. Let us hope that they will not support the terrorism and to use the Albanians as cannon fodder. And the Albanians, certainly, in the meantime will wake up and will not allow either the Americans or whoever else to use them as such. For that, understandably, with self criticism, all of us need to assist them. I hope that for this will also contribute this interview, for which I most sincerely thank you, not as a foreigner, but as your brother, because I have always thought of Skopje as my second birth town and Macedonia as my second, true fatherland. I use this opportunity to send my greetings to my school friends from the Skopje gymnasium “J. B. Tito”, also the personnel from the macedonian embassies in Geneva and Tirana with whom I have met many times and keep wonderful memories from the discussions with them, especially with the recent (former) ambassador in Albania, Risto Nikovski. Understandably, special greetings to my friends and “comrades” from KPD “Idrizovo”.

Taranis
05-03-12, 01:41
It's time to stop this. Locked.