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rogers
21-03-10, 02:39
As I can't seem to post a URL on this forum :confused2: (even though I have more than 10 posts) I would like to draw your attention to a youtube video I made about recent developments in the complex genetics of Croatian inhabiting mainland Europe and Bosnia. It is the most accurate account of any study today taking into account autosomal DNA.

Just place these search terms in Youtube and it will take you directly to the video " Croatian Genetics " it will be the first video on the list.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w--OcsEDxmY

Oh...now it's working after several attempts!

Joro
21-03-10, 04:45
The Y-DNA results in that video are a bit outdated,but still informative nonetheless.
If you make videos in the future,i suggest you to used the newest results by the latest definition of subclades,and that is currently Battaglia et.al.
Nice that you have mentioned how Coon missrepresented Croats as Dinarids, since that collides with craniometrical data on studied Croatian population.And from my experience in everyday life that is not true either,i would say there is no 'Croatian type' overall.The problem is most those old racial maps didn't really study Croatia and were based more on 'Tyrol to Epyrus' Dinarid racial continuity presumption(those who depict Croatia as mainly Dinarid area,other maps don't do that,though they are not too correct either).
Only true Dinaroid Croats are those from Herzegovina and Bosnia IMO.
Your decode-me results are also very interesting,you are mostly similar to an Icelandic individual,though I can see you have similarities with Italians and Sardinians.

rogers
21-03-10, 15:05
The Y-DNA results in that video are a bit outdated,but still informative nonetheless.
If you make videos in the future,i suggest you to used the newest results by the latest definition of subclades,and that is currently Battaglia et.al.
Nice that you have mentioned how Coon missrepresented Croats as Dinarids, since that collides with craniometrical data on studied Croatian population.And from my experience in everyday life that is not true either,i would say there is no 'Croatian type' overall.The problem is most those old racial maps didn't really study Croatia and were based more on 'Tyrol to Epyrus' Dinarid racial continuity presumption(those who depict Croatia as mainly Dinarid area,other maps don't do that,though they are not too correct either).
Only true Dinaroid Croats are those from Herzegovina and Bosnia IMO.
Your decode-me results are also very interesting,you are mostly similar to an Icelandic individual,though I can see you have similarities with Italians and Sardinians.

My top ranking Italian results have a lot of ancient markers. So I actually don't match them that well. At 250Kb I don't match them well at all which means that my genes are not from that gene pool. Sardinians are not high on my list (No. 8).

Dalmat
21-03-10, 15:13
sry bout you were wrong about type of heads in croatia.Most of us are meso to brachio,and very rearly you can find dolio below index of 75(maybe 1 out of 100),and you can see that just by looking.

Make some more research,so you actually know what your talking about about it before you make another vid.

Actually funny thing is that i thought i was dolio 100% before i found out how to measure your self ,and what is what actualy,i ended up as index of 80 which is border of meso and brahi

Joro
21-03-10, 15:23
You are that same kid from Croatian forums,I know you.
So how should I say to you, It is a scientific research which shows Croats are mostly dolicephalic,not some urban legend.
Myself am mesocephalic,borderline dolicephalic(76.5).

And Roger should say some interesting things about his cephalic index :)

rogers
21-03-10, 15:50
Yes, I am of Croatian ancestry and have a CI = 70 (Hyperdolicocephalic). My son is dolico, my nephews are dolicocephalic and my uncles all three are dolicocephalic. We are from the Makarska region but originally from the alps near Vrgorac.

By-the-way, just in case you would like to contest my result, I am a neuroscientist and I have measured my skull with calipers that were designed to measure human skulls. So the results are extremely accurate.

Dalmat
21-03-10, 15:52
You are that same kid from Croatian forums,I know you.
So how should I say to you, It is a scientific research which shows Croats are mostly dolicephalic,not some urban legend.
Myself am mesocephalic,borderline dolicephalic(76.5).

And Roger should say some interesting things about his cephalic index :)


which study,link please,because as far as i know all in my family from father side are similar to me,and on mother side are brahi,Also i find hard to find very narrow headed croats,and those which are dont look like stereotypical croats to me.
If your 76.5 your meso,which is ok for croat,but if we were predominantly dolio it would be likely to see ppl with index of 70-71,and i fund it pretty hard.
Actually its lot easier to find one with 85+ than 75-,in croat pop

Dalmat
21-03-10, 15:55
Yes, I am of Croatian ancestry and have a CI = 70 (Hyperdolicocephalic). Most son is dolico, my nephews are dolicocephalic and my uncles all three are dolicocephalic. We are from the Makarska region but originally from the alps near Vrgorac.

By-the-way, just in case you would like to contest my result, I am a neuroscientist and I have measured my skull with calipers that were designed to measure human skulls. So the results are extremely accurate.


then you have very unique head,i am from sibenik,and 90% ppl here are meso or brahi,wery rearly i can see someone like you,also my granma from father side was from podgora near makarska,and she was brahi,her 2 brothers also,and 1 out of her 3 sisters,other 2 were meso

Joro
21-03-10, 15:57
which study,link please,because as far as i know all in my family from father side are similar to me,and on mother side are brahi,Also i find hard to find very narrow headed croats,and those which are dont look like stereotypical croats to me.
If your 76.5 your meso,which is ok for croat,but if we were predominantly dolio it would be likely to see ppl with index of 70-71,and i fund it pretty hard.
Actually its lot easier to find one with 85+ than 75-,in croat pop
http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=clanak&id_clanak_jezik=42706

and what does it matter your family is brachy?is that supposed to be some kind of proof?:D
my family is mostly like I am, meso with tendency to doli.so what?
and i absolutely disagree it is untypical to see dolicephalic Croats.
though i think when all rural areas would be included,we would probably be overall mesocephalic.that's realistic.

Joro
21-03-10, 15:58
then you have very unique head,i am from sibenik,and 90% ppl here are meso or brahi,wery rearly i can see someone like you,also my granma from father side was from podgora near makarska,and she was brahi,her 2 brothers also,and 1 out of her 3 sisters,other 2 were meso
chit-chatting...:rolleyes2:
btw here is an girl from Šibenik who's very dolicephalic:satisfied: :
http://www.gavella.hr/var/gavella/storage/images/ansambl/bolanca_ivana/galerija/dsc4729_1_jpg/38249-1-cro-HR/dsc4729_1_jpg_galleryfullscreenthickbox.jpg

Dalmat
21-03-10, 16:15
exception isnt rule-šibenćani

i need more posts for links :wary2:


Also that study seams suspicious to me

Joro
21-03-10, 16:19
exception isnt rule-šibenćani

i need more posts for links :wary2:


Also that study seams suspicious to me
yeah, we should trust more to you and your 'my sister and I' stories:laughing:

Dalmat
21-03-10, 16:28
yeah, we should trust more to you and your 'my sister and I' stories:laughing:
well you can trust me as i live here and will post lots of pictures when i get 8 more posts,or you can trust some obscure study of 5 sentences where they try compare Croatians to Syrians for some reason...

Joro
21-03-10, 16:35
well you can trust me as i live here and will post lots of pictures when i get 8 more posts,or you can trust some obscure study of 5 sentences where they try compare Croatians to Syrians for some reason...
anyway, what does it matter to you?why are you so obsessed with proving Croatian brachycephalism?we are trying to make scientific discussion here, not some biased 'who is more brachy' and therefore 'Illryan' or 'pure Aryan dinaric Croat' krap:innocent:

Dalmat
21-03-10, 16:51
anyway, what does it matter to you?why are you so obsessed with proving Croatian brachycephalism?we are trying to make scientific discussion here, not some biased 'who is more brachy' and therefore 'Illryan' or 'pure Aryan dinaric Croat' krap:innocent:


And what does it matter to you????

I was responding to video from rogers,since he was talking about dalmatia and hercegovina.

I live in Dalmatia,my mother is half Hercegovian,so i pretty much know how ppl look in here,since i live here and visit my grandparents.


and since when dinaric are aryans???,i also bet u dont even know what dinaric means,hehe,since there are dinarics from Afghanistan to great britain and you think its some kind of pure race.

You on the other hand are the biased one,especially sending picture of non typical girl from Sibenik :laughing:.

Joro
21-03-10, 16:54
And what does it matter to you????

I was responding to video from rogers,since he was talking about dalmatia and hercegovina.

I live in Dalmatia,my mother is half Hercegovian,so i pretty much know how ppl look in here,since i live here and visit my grandparents.

You on the other hand are the biased one,especially sending picture of non typical girl from Sibenik :laughing:.
well, i also know how people look there :laughing:, since my origins are from there and i often come to Dalmatia/Hercegovina.
and from my experience,only true brachy region is Hercegovina,though far from Albanian brachycephalism for instance.

Joro
21-03-10, 16:59
Croatians are Slavs, and were a strong and numerous Slavic tribe according to historical accounts(don't let that contemporary size of Croatia fools you),and it seems logical that that inherit largely dolicephalic craniometry from their ancestors.
Slavs were probably of Corded Nordic derivation(more than Hallstatt) which is known to be the most dolicephalic type on European soil.So, no wonder.
Šibenik is old Croatian royal town, and it is absolutely natural that there are many dolicephals.

Dalmat
21-03-10, 17:04
well, i also know how people look there :laughing:, since my origins are from there and i often come to Dalmatia/Hercegovina.
and from my experience,only true brachy region is Hercegovina,though far from Albanian brachycephalism for instance.


there isnt such thing as true brachy,dimwit,you look ppl like they are some kind of pure dog breed where everyone is looking the same :annoyed:.
Also i found strange that you think dalmatians typically have narrow and long heads with pronounced buns, since you "often" come here

Dalmat
21-03-10, 19:29
Croatians are Slavs, and were a strong and numerous Slavic tribe according to historical accounts(don't let that contemporary size of Croatia fools you),and it seems logical that that inherit largely dolicephalic craniometry from their ancestors.
Slavs were probably of Corded Nordic derivation(more than Hallstatt) which is known to be the most dolicephalic type on European soil.So, no wonder.
Šibenik is old Croatian royal town, and it is absolutely natural that there are many dolicephals.


ok wise guy, since i cant post links yet ,send 10 pictures of different ppl from sibenik who are dolicephal with index of 70-73 from your perspective/judgment

Joro
21-03-10, 20:33
ok wise guy, since i cant post links yet ,send 10 pictures of different ppl from sibenik who are dolicephal with index of 70-73 from your perspective/judgment
i don't photograph dolicephalic people on the street when I'm in Dalmatia,you know.:innocent:

Dalmat
21-03-10, 23:18
i don't photograph dolicephalic people on the street when I'm in Dalmatia,you know.:innocent:


yea probably its like endangered species hunt.

Ok ill give few hints of famous ppl in croatia you can check already.

Miso Kovac,Zdravko Skender,Mate Gulin,Goran Visnjic,Braca Skelin,Marko Perkovic "Tompson"(hes from sibenik county),and bit from rest of dalmatia,Oliver Dragojevic,Dino Dvornik,Goran Ivanisevic,big majority of croatian handball team...etc

rogers
22-03-10, 10:55
yea probably its like endangered species hunt.

Ok ill give few hints of famous ppl in croatia you can check already.

Miso Kovac,Zdravko Skender,Mate Gulin,Goran Visnjic,Braca Skelin,Marko Perkovic "Tompson"(hes from sibenik county),and bit from rest of dalmatia,Oliver Dragojevic,Dino Dvornik,Goran Ivanisevic,big majority of croatian handball team...etc


You can't estimate someones CI just by looking at their skull. It needs accurate measurements. The only thing you can go by are studies, so if you can come up with something that contradicts the findings cited by Joro in the 2007 study you are just whistling in the wind.

I had no idea I had a long skull until I measured it. I have longish wavy hair which easily masks my head shape.

Dalmat
22-03-10, 18:57
You can't estimate someones CI just by looking at their skull. It needs accurate measurements. The only thing you can go by are studies, so if you can come up with something that contradicts the findings cited by Joro in the 2007 study you are just whistling in the wind.

I had no idea I had a long skull until I measured it. I have longish wavy hair which easily masks my head shape.


that what joro posted isnt study,its 5 sentences written by ?

I can tell you that i am 100% sure dalmatians are not doli,altho you could find some rearly,plainly because we have broad heads.Even if most of us have(like me) bun,we are meso at best because we have broad heads,simple as that.

Joro
07-04-10, 01:27
that what joro posted isnt study,its 5 sentences written by ?

I can tell you that i am 100% sure dalmatians are not doli,altho you could find some rearly,plainly because we have broad heads.Even if most of us have(like me) bun,we are meso at best because we have broad heads,simple as that.
I wouldn't say Dalmatians have broad heads on average.they are 'normal'.

bosna501
07-04-10, 21:32
Dalmatians and Nortcroatians are 2 different Worlds.

Joro
08-04-10, 01:22
the differences are significant because the border of south and north Croatia represents at the same time a border of south and central Europe, but they aren't so exaggeratedly big as some try to portray it, not at all.

Eldritch
19-02-13, 00:37
Dalmatians and Nortcroatians are 2 different Worlds.
That's obviously quite an exaggeration but yes there's some difference reflected also in Y-DNA distribution.