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Maciamo
24-03-10, 17:44
Europe is an ethnic melting pot. Well, let's not exaggerate. Europeans are genetically among the most homogeneous racial group. Indians, South-East Asians, Middle-Easterners, Central Asians and Africans all have greater genetic diversity than Europeans. But we were taught at school that Europe had a long history of invasions, wars, conquests and migrations. And it is true. What I am interested in here is how do Europeans see themselves. To put it differently, when you read a history book, who do you identify as your ancestors ?

The answer is pretty straightforward for Scandinavians and north Germans, who will have close to 100% of Germanic ancestry, if 'Germanic' means the tribes that lived between the lower Rhine and Scandinavia during Imperial Roman times.

For pretty much everyone else one's ancestry isn't as clear. The Finns, the Balts and northern Russians have mixed Siberian and Slavic ancestry, with a pinch of Germanic.

The Irish and the Scots are of overwhelmingly Celtic descent (whatever that means) but cannot deny a substantial Norse, Anglo-Saxon and Norman admixture (and with the Norman also Gallic and Roman blood).

Central Europeans have the most complex ethnic blend, with pre-Celtic (Balkano-Greek), Celtic, Roman, Slavic and Germanic claims of ancestry.

The Italians may think of themselves as the most representative descendants of the Romans, but the truth is that Rome attracted people from all over the empire, and later Germanic and Hunnic invaders also left their genetic print on the peninsula. Add to this that northern Italy was always more Celtic and southern Italy more Greek. So who should one identify with ? Is it strange for a Milanese to say "our ancestors the Celts and the Germans" ? Probably not. Probably less than "our ancestors the Athenians and the Spartans". In the south, things are reversed.

As a Belgian I wondered when growing up if my ancestors were more Gauls, Romans, Franks or Vikings. I have chosen to identify more with Germanic people based on my looks and character (even though I am from the French-speaking part). But the Belgian DNA project (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25463) has now made it clear that only half of the male lineages are of Germanic origins, and surely less than that on the maternal side. As the Belgic tribes lost against the Romans it has not been very popular to claim Gaulish or Celtic ancestry in Belgium (unlike in the British Isles, France or Iberia). Belgian French speakers like to identify themselves with the Romans, or to say that they are first and foremost of Gallo-Roman descent (as a fair compromise). And it is true that once the Germanic haplogroups are cut out from the total, what is left looks very much like a northern or central Italian admixture. I suppose I shouldn't discard my Gallo-Roman ancestry too quickly, as it may prove dominant over the Germanic appearance.

Wilhelm
24-03-10, 18:01
I identify mostly with the Iberians and celts, which is the overwhelmingly ethnic base of Catalonia and Iberia, but my Y-dna shows that I have some germanic (R1b1b2a1a1c) probably from Franks or Goths.

Cambrius (The Red)
24-03-10, 18:25
I identify with the Atlantic Celts (particularly Gallaecians), although I have a little Germanic and Basque from the maternal side.

Catchabus
24-03-10, 19:01
Interesting topic. I’m from Sicily so before DNA testing I identified mostly with ancient Greeks and Romans. Also, the town I am from is near Himera (see http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/12/huge-greek-necropolis-from-himera.html (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/12/huge-greek-necropolis-from-himera.html)) and legend has it my hometown was founded by Carthaginian refugees from the first battle fought in Himera between them and the Greeks. Though I haven’t tested it, my autosomal DNA no doubt incorporates these ancient peoples.

Upon learning my Y DNA haplogroup, however, I had to reassess and my Y-line ancestors likely were not on the island before 1,000 years ago. I am I2b1, which is considered a Germanic haplogroup (oddly my cousins in Sicily would call me tedesco because I was prompt). My best guess at this point is that I descend from the Normans or their Lombard allies. Historical evidence in my hometown supports the Norman theory.

So to sum it up, my view of my ancestry has expanded from the Mediterranean to include northern Europeans.

LeBrok
24-03-10, 21:04
Interesting topic. I’m from Sicily so before DNA testing I identified mostly with ancient Greeks and Romans. Also, the town I am from is near Himera (see http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/12/huge-greek-necropolis-from-himera.html (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/12/huge-greek-necropolis-from-himera.html)) and legend has it my hometown was founded by Carthaginian refugees from the first battle fought in Himera between them and the Greeks. Though I haven’t tested it, my autosomal DNA no doubt incorporates these ancient peoples.

Upon learning my Y DNA haplogroup, however, I had to reassess and my Y-line ancestors likely were not on the island before 1,000 years ago. I am I2b1, which is considered a Germanic haplogroup (oddly my cousins in Sicily would call me tedesco because I was prompt). My best guess at this point is that I descend from the Normans or their Lombard allies. Historical evidence in my hometown supports the Norman theory.

So to sum it up, my view of my ancestry has expanded from the Mediterranean to include northern Europeans.

How about Vandals or Goths bringing I2 to Sicily?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals

Catchabus
24-03-10, 22:32
Yes, can't discount these purported barbarians. It's possible, but I can't say I identify much with them.

LeBrok
25-03-10, 00:39
Lol, maybe they were not much educated or cultured, but being on wrong side of our beloved roman empire, they had their reputation tarnished by roman historians. They generally were like others, some good, some bad, but the biggest mistake they made was that they vanished, at least their country.

LeBrok
25-03-10, 00:48
Surprisingly, being a history buff, I never felt a strong urge to identify myself strongly with country or ethnic group. Maybe that's why I'm an emigrant, lol.

Marianne
25-03-10, 00:49
I strongly identify with Ancient Greeks and a bit with Franks because where my parents come from the frankish influence was big. Recently I learned that I indeed have Frank ancestors but no one in my family has done a dna test so I don't have any information on y and m haplogroups.

In general, Greeks are very proud of their ancestors and I doubt you will find a Greek not identifying with Ancient Greeks.

Cambrius (The Red)
25-03-10, 05:27
I strongly identify with Ancient Greeks and a bit with Franks because where my parents come from the frankish influence was big. Recently I learned that I indeed have Frank ancestors but no one in my family has done a dna test so I don't have any information on y and m haplogroups.

In general, Greeks are very proud of their ancestors and I doubt you will find a Greek not identifying with Ancient Greeks.

I believe the Franks first entered Greece during the fourth Crusade, in 1204.

Gwyllgi
25-03-10, 09:33
I'm 75% daffodil.

Is it ‘cos I’s Welsh?

Haganus
25-03-10, 23:18
It is an impressive thing to read that a Germanic ancestry can be proved.
So all north Germans and Scandinavians are direct descendants of the
people who lived there during the Roman age.

I suppose that the Netherlands are direct descendants of the ancient
Germanics who lived there in Roman age. But I understand that the
actual Belgiums are a mixed people, half Germanic, half Celtic.

It is a difficult thing for me to accept that fair hair of men in Poland and
Russians has been inherited from the Goths and Vikings. I understand
that fair haired men lived in south Russia about 3000 BC. It is a strange
thing that the Greek author Herodotus wrote about the red haired Budini.
What is known about the eye-colour of the fair haired people who lived
in Russia about 3000 BC? Did they have blue eyes?

Chris
26-03-10, 19:59
For me, Germanic/Anglo-Saxon. That ties in with my DNA results to a large extent, but I also feel links to the other elements of English heritage.

Shasta
27-03-10, 01:19
My paternal DNA results were surprising. My 6th grandfather of my surname reportedly came from Limerick, Ireland to the US in the early 19th century. I expected my DNA results to be typical Irish/ celtic then - R1b plus. Instead my results were Y-DNA I2a which I guess is a rare haplo to have, found largely in eastern Europe.

Joro
27-03-10, 01:38
My paternal DNA results were surprising. My 6th grandfather of my surname reportedly came from Limerick, Ireland to the US in the early 19th century. I expected my DNA results to be typical Irish/ celtic then - R1b plus. Instead my results were Y-DNA I2a which I guess is a rare haplo to have, found largely in eastern Europe.
It is very common in Sardinia and central Spain as well.That is were the highest frequencies have been found besides Croatia-Bosnia and north Romania.
I suppose you carry 'western' Sardinian-Castillan subclade rather than Croatian-Romanian one.

Marianne
27-03-10, 01:45
I believe the Franks first entered Greece during the fourth Crusade, in 1204.
Since the 2nd Byzantine Period of Crete, from 961 A.D, many Western European merchants settled in the island and later on the Venetian occupation came at 1204 and lasted for almost 500 years, so their influence was great :smile:

Cretans still have a different dialect which includes words that are clearly not Greek, influenced by Wester European languages. There are also many Roman Catholics in the island, more than the average of Greece. So you will find many Cretans feeling a "connection" with Frankish culture. That doesn't apply to the rest of Greeks though, except for those who live at the Ionian islands, because they were also under Venetian rule for quite a while.

Shasta
27-03-10, 13:05
It is very common in Sardinia and central Spain as well.That is were the highest frequencies have been found besides Croatia-Bosnia and north Romania.
I suppose you carry 'western' Sardinian-Castillan subclade rather than Croatian-Romanian one.

Interesting, thanks for the information! Being part of a more western European group makes greater sense. I've often wondered how my distant relative ended up in Ireland, since the haplo is not commonly found there. I know it is speculation, but any ideas? I know the British Islands have been invaded a few times from the mainland. The Romans were there for awhile of course. And I remember reading that Limerick, Ireland was begun by the Vikings.

Cambrius (The Red)
27-03-10, 16:33
Interesting, thanks for the information! Being part of a more western European group makes greater sense. I've often wondered how my distant relative ended up in Ireland, since the haplo is not commonly found there. I know it is speculation, but any ideas? I know the British Islands have been invaded a few times from the mainland. The Romans were there for awhile of course. And I remember reading that Limerick, Ireland was begun by the Vikings.


The essential components of Ireland's genetic substratum and the British Isles as a whole is Iberian. Peoples of the Atlantic Facade (Spain, Portugal, Western to Northern France and the British Isles) share elements of a common ancient heritage.

Eochaidh
27-03-10, 18:56
Interesting, thanks for the information! Being part of a more western European group makes greater sense. I've often wondered how my distant relative ended up in Ireland, since the haplo is not commonly found there. I know it is speculation, but any ideas? I know the British Islands have been invaded a few times from the mainland. The Romans were there for awhile of course. And I remember reading that Limerick, Ireland was begun by the Vikings.
If you go to Eupedia_top and click the first link, you will see the percent of each haplogroup in each country. I is considered Mesolithic native European, so they were there before the R1b people arrived. The total I is 13%, but I2a is just 2%.

Only Roman traders ever went to Ireland and that on the Dublin side. The Vikings held Limerick town for a while, but weren't in the surrounding county much.

I think that your family has been in Ireland for a very long time.

Shasta
27-03-10, 20:04
Fascinating stuff! Thanks for the help everyone. Didn't consider that my Haplo might have been been one of the first to Ireland.

Joro
27-03-10, 20:10
Maciamo has an interesting article about How did R1b come to replace most of the older lineages in Western Europe ?

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#R1b-conquest

Shasta
27-03-10, 22:55
Thanks for the link to Maciamo's article! I printed it out. It will make a nice addition to my genealogy files.

rogers
28-03-10, 13:45
I would have to say Norse and celtic. My autosomal studies say I am genetically closest to Icelanders but I have pure Croatian ancestry.:confused2:

Maciamo
29-03-10, 13:07
I would have to say Norse and celtic. My autosomal studies say I am genetically closest to Icelanders but I have pure Croatian ancestry.:confused2:

But did the autosomal comparison include Croatian, Slovenian, Bosnian, Serbian or Austrian samples ? I suppose that you are referring to the Genetic Atlas comparison on deCODEme, but it doesn't have any samples from the Balkans or Central Europe. It doesn't mean much to be closer to the Icelandic when the alternative is Italian, French, Basque or Orcadian.

Segia
29-03-10, 17:04
Roman, obviously.

Maciamo
30-03-10, 11:47
Roman, obviously.

Yet Spaniards aren't that much of Roman descent. The main ancestry is Celtiberian, which is the combination of Paleolithic Iberian (Cro-Magnon I2), Neolithic Iberian from the Near East on the southern coasts (E-M78, J2), and Celtic (especially in the centre and north, R1b-P312 and G2a3a). The Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Visigoths, Suebi, Vandals, and Arabs had only a minimal (but accumulative) impact on the Spanish genetic pool. There has never been a major migration of people from Italy to Spain, less so than from Germany, the Levant or North Africa to Spain.

Segia
30-03-10, 12:47
Maciamo, it's not a matter of genetic markers. It's culture. I have to do much more with a roman than with a celtiberian, iberian....

If there's an ancient culture that fits better than others in western Europe, that's Rome. Even a current germanic-speaker would feel more comfortable in it.

Wilhelm
30-03-10, 16:05
Yet Spaniards aren't that much of Roman descent. The main ancestry is Celtiberian, which is the combination of Paleolithic Iberian (Cro-Magnon I2), Neolithic Iberian from the Near East on the southern coasts (E-M78, J2), and Celtic (especially in the centre and north, R1b-P312 and G2a3a). The Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Visigoths, Suebi, Vandals, and Arabs had only a minimal (but accumulative) impact on the Spanish genetic pool. There has never been a major migration of people from Italy to Spain, less so than from Germany, the Levant or North Africa to Spain.
That's correct, but I would change Arabs for Berbers, and also the P312 is after the basques most strong in Catalonia where the Iberian substratum is more predominant (M167)

St Delcambre
15-04-10, 11:47
But did the autosomal comparison include Croatian, Slovenian, Bosnian, Serbian or Austrian samples ? I suppose that you are referring to the Genetic Atlas comparison on deCODEme, but it doesn't have any samples from the Balkans or Central Europe. It doesn't mean much to be closer to the Icelandic when the alternative is Italian, French, Basque or Orcadian.


Autosomal results can predict which nation you're related to the closest genetically? If so what do they include as examples and which sites offer the analysis?

rogers
15-04-10, 14:47
But did the autosomal comparison include Croatian, Slovenian, Bosnian, Serbian or Austrian samples ? I suppose that you are referring to the Genetic Atlas comparison on deCODEme, but it doesn't have any samples from the Balkans or Central Europe. It doesn't mean much to be closer to the Icelandic when the alternative is Italian, French, Basque or Orcadian.

Not true.

There are many public samples now from all over Europe including all the countries you have listed. You are obviously not a member of DecodeMe otherwise you would have known this fact. Regardless, I still match Icelanders at all levels of autosomal DNA ie. at 1Kb, 250 Kb and 5Mb. In fact I match Icelanders better than they match each other most of the time.

rogers
15-04-10, 14:50
Autosomal results can predict which nation you're related to the closest genetically? If so what do they include as examples and which sites offer the analysis?

Yes they can. DecodeMe have included reference populations around the world.

Maciamo
16-04-10, 08:11
Not true.

There are many public samples now from all over Europe including all the countries you have listed. You are obviously not a member of DecodeMe otherwise you would have known this fact. Regardless, I still match Icelanders at all levels of autosomal DNA ie. at 1Kb, 250 Kb and 5Mb. In fact I match Icelanders better than they match each other most of the time.

I don't know what game you are playing. DeCODEme only has 9 European populations from 6 countries in its Genetic Atlas (https://www.decodeme.com/ancestry/genetic-atlas) : Iceland, Orkney, France, Basque, Italy (unspecified Italian, Tuscan and Sardinian), and Russia (Russian and Adygey). The exact same population are used in their Map of kinship (https://www.decodeme.com/ancestry/map-of-kinship).

So I am not sure where you found your "many public samples from all over Europe". Don't you mean one-to-one comparisons with other customers in the Your Friends section ? That's also possible at 23andMe.

There are 3 main reasons why such comparisons are unreliable :

1) Single individual matches are unrepresentative of a whole country. You will sometimes find good matches in one country, but others that are only distant matches. If your 3 best and 3 worst matches are from the same country they even each other out. There is no option at present to make averages for all members from a selected country. The problem has a solution; it's just not available to us yet.

2) One's best matches vary according to the resolution chosen (fragment size). One's matches at 1Mb aren't the same as at 250Kb or 5Mb. Depending the what you choose your top matches will be in different countries. Some of my best matches at 250Kb (64%) share 0% at 5MB. One person who shares 0.5% at 5MB has only 62.6% at 250Kb. There are so many resolution levels that no consistent ranking can be made. In other words nobody fits neatly into one region.

3) Interpersonal differences within Europe aren't significant. You are unlikely to find any match at 10Mb or 20Mb unless you are related within a few generations. At 5Mb pretty much everyone shares between 0% and 0.5%. At 1Mb it varies between 18% and 20.5%. At 250Kb it ranges from 62.5 to 64%. Differences are tiny and random. What's the significance of 0.1% more or less in common with someone ?

Cambrius (The Red)
16-04-10, 13:57
I don't know what game you are playing. DeCODEme only has 9 European populations from 6 countries in its Genetic Atlas (https://www.decodeme.com/ancestry/genetic-atlas) : Iceland, Orkney, France, Basque, Italy (unspecified Italian, Tuscan and Sardinian), and Russia (Russian and Adygey). The exact same population are used in their Map of kinship (https://www.decodeme.com/ancestry/map-of-kinship).
So I am not sure where you found your "many public samples from all over Europe". Don't you mean one-to-one comparisons with other customers in the Your Friends section ? That's also possible at 23andMe.
There are 3 main reasons why such comparisons are unreliable :
1) Single individual matches are unrepresentative of a whole country. You will sometimes find good matches in one country, but others that are only distant matches. If your 3 best and 3 worst matches are from the same country they even each other out. There is no option at present to make averages for all members from a selected country. The problem has a solution; it's just not available to us yet.
2) One's best matches vary according to the resolution chosen (fragment size). One's matches at 1Mb aren't the same as at 250Kb or 5Mb. Depending the what you choose your top matches will be in different countries. Some of my best matches at 250Kb (64%) share 0% at 5MB. One person who shares 0.5% at 5MB has only 62.6% at 250Kb. There are so many resolution levels that no consistent ranking can be made. In other words nobody fits neatly into one region.
3) Interpersonal differences within Europe aren't significant. You are unlikely to find any match at 10Mb or 20Mb unless you are related within a few generations. At 5Mb pretty much everyone shares between 0% and 0.5%. At 1Mb it varies between 18% and 20.5%. At 250Kb it ranges from 62.5 to 64%. Differences are tiny and random. What's the significance of 0.1% more or less in common with someone ?

Absolutely spot-on. There are autosomal DNA mapping studies completed over the last two years that have shown some success in identifying a number of populations regionally, but things are far from 100%.

rogers
16-04-10, 14:53
I don't know what game you are playing. DeCODEme only has 9 European populations from 6 countries in its Genetic Atlas (https://www.decodeme.com/ancestry/genetic-atlas) : Iceland, Orkney, France, Basque, Italy (unspecified Italian, Tuscan and Sardinian), and Russia (Russian and Adygey). The exact same population are used in their Map of kinship (https://www.decodeme.com/ancestry/map-of-kinship).

So I am not sure where you found your "many public samples from all over Europe". Don't you mean one-to-one comparisons with other customers in the Your Friends section ? That's also possible at 23andMe.

There are 3 main reasons why such comparisons are unreliable :

1) Single individual matches are unrepresentative of a whole country. You will sometimes find good matches in one country, but others that are only distant matches. If your 3 best and 3 worst matches are from the same country they even each other out. There is no option at present to make averages for all members from a selected country. The problem has a solution; it's just not available to us yet.

2) One's best matches vary according to the resolution chosen (fragment size). One's matches at 1Mb aren't the same as at 250Kb or 5Mb. Depending the what you choose your top matches will be in different countries. Some of my best matches at 250Kb (64%) share 0% at 5MB. One person who shares 0.5% at 5MB has only 62.6% at 250Kb. There are so many resolution levels that no consistent ranking can be made. In other words nobody fits neatly into one region.

3) Interpersonal differences within Europe aren't significant. You are unlikely to find any match at 10Mb or 20Mb unless you are related within a few generations. At 5Mb pretty much everyone shares between 0% and 0.5%. At 1Mb it varies between 18% and 20.5%. At 250Kb it ranges from 62.5 to 64%. Differences are tiny and random. What's the significance of 0.1% more or less in common with someone ?

I am not playing any games. I simply responded to the question in the thread you had created. It was you who sparked a debate with a retort that suggested that my autosomal results through Decodeme were subject to interpretation.

I am simply stating my results and suggesting that there should be some ancient link between my genetic makeup and that of other Icelandic individuals. What is your problem with that?

Your first point (Single individual matches are unrepresentative of a whole country). The genetic atlas averages out your 540,000 SNP matches against large population references from countries around the world. My No. 1 match is Iceland out of over 50 countries around the world. I know there are no central European references, this is where you can compare yourself to your friends that accept your invitations to share data. What you failed to realize is that there is a public reference project underway where participants can contribute their data to forming other reference populations. That is what I was referring to.

Your second point (One's best matches vary according to the resolution chosen (fragment size). No kidding! In fact to be precise your low level (250Kb) matches usually indicate that you are closely related to that gene pool. Higher fragment sizes indicate that you may be related to an individual but not necessarily from that gene pool. Hence the differences found.

Your last comment "Interpersonal differences within Europe aren't significant". Ofcourse they are!:useless:

My highest matches are: 84.70% @ 1Kb Iceland, 64.6% @250Kb Icelander 21.7% @ 1Mb Icelander, 4.6% @3Mb Icelander, 1.1% @ 5Mb Icelander. I think even "blind Freddie" could see some sort of trend there?

I also have a 23andme Finnish RF cousin that I share 0.8% @ 5Mb. Many other participants have also correlated percentage sharing @ 5Mb and predicted RF cousins through 23andme. I have seen values that vary from 0.6% to 2.0%.

Semitic Duwa
17-04-10, 19:18
Given that I'm half Jooo half Brit, I identify both as one of Aharon's descendants (J1c3d Kohen) and Germanic matrilineal (J1c2).:D

Maciamo
18-04-10, 14:43
My highest matches are: 84.70% @ 1Kb Iceland, 64.6% @250Kb Icelander 21.7% @ 1Mb Icelander, 4.6% @3Mb Icelander, 1.1% @ 5Mb Icelander. I think even "blind Freddie" could see some sort of trend there?

I also have a 23andme Finnish RF cousin that I share 0.8% @ 5Mb. Many other participants have also correlated percentage sharing @ 5Mb and predicted RF cousins through 23andme. I have seen values that vary from 0.6% to 2.0%.


How did you compare results at 1Kb ?

Are you sure you were not adopted ? How can a pure Croatian get such high percentage of similarity with Nordics ? I don't have any match as high as that. At 1MB my matches in Europe are between 17% and 20%. I only have 6 matches above 20% (1 Dutch and 5 Scandinavians), but even my highest at 1MB (21.4%) is only 63.9% at 250Kb and 0.6% at 5MB.

rogers
18-04-10, 17:52
How did you compare results at 1Kb ?

Are you sure you were not adopted ? How can a pure Croatian get such high percentage of similarity with Nordics ? I don't have any match as high as that. At 1MB my matches in Europe are between 17% and 20%. I only have 6 matches above 20% (1 Dutch and 5 Scandinavians), but even my highest at 1MB (21.4%) is only 63.9% at 250Kb and 0.6% at 5MB.


The global similarity is done at 1kb. If you go to the European global similarity map these are done at 1Kb.

LOL no, I am not adopted. I have really have no idea but I am trying to work it out. This is obviously something ancient (not recent), perhaps Viking? Strange thing is that I have a nordid phenotype as well. I know of another half Croat/British who also has a very high matches with Icelandic. More samples need to be assessed to see if this is a general trend or just something to do with my family.

Eireannach
20-04-10, 10:07
I am Irish so obviously I identify most with Irish ethnicity and would view Scotland as being the closest country culturally to us. Maybe thats because physically it is the closest country to us!!

Maciamo
20-04-10, 10:51
The global similarity is done at 1kb. If you go to the European global similarity map these are done at 1Kb.

Yes, but how do you see it for people in the Friends section ? Or do you mean that the default Icelander is your best match among the 200+ individuals available for comparison as "public friends" ?



LOL no, I am not adopted. I have really have no idea but I am trying to work it out. This is obviously something ancient (not recent), perhaps Viking? Strange thing is that I have a nordid phenotype as well. I know of another half Croat/British who also has a very high matches with Icelandic. More samples need to be assessed to see if this is a general trend or just something to do with my family.

What is strange is that you are closer to this/these Icelander(s) than most Scandinavians would be. Two unrelated individuals from a same country would get about 19 or 20% of similarity at 1MB, not 21.7%. How can you be closer to Icelanders than other Scandinavians or perhaps even some Icelanders themselves ?

Even weirder is that you should have a high similarity with a Finn too. Finns are very different genetically from Scandinavians due to their partial Siberian ancestry and very limited Indo-European admixture (R1a and R1b). All my close matches are Scandinavians or Dutch, but none are Finns. I am closer to Italians and Spaniards than to Finns.

Semitic Duwa
20-04-10, 17:39
I also feel a certain connection to Slavs given that J1c introduced Balto-Slavic languages along with W (mtDNA of course).

rogers
21-04-10, 01:44
Yes, but how do you see it for people in the Friends section ? Or do you mean that the default Icelander is your best match among the 200+ individuals available for comparison as "public friends" ?



What is strange is that you are closer to this/these Icelander(s) than most Scandinavians would be. Two unrelated individuals from a same country would get about 19 or 20% of similarity at 1MB, not 21.7%. How can you be closer to Icelanders than other Scandinavians or perhaps even some Icelanders themselves ?

Even weirder is that you should have a high similarity with a Finn too. Finns are very different genetically from Scandinavians due to their partial Siberian ancestry and very limited Indo-European admixture (R1a and R1b). All my close matches are Scandinavians or Dutch, but none are Finns. I am closer to Italians and Spaniards than to Finns.


AFAIK the global similarity compares you to all reference populations at the 1Kb level. This does not include any friends or public friends. So the my No. 1 ranking with Iceland would be a comparison with the whole reference population.

My Finnish match is actually a known predicted cousin from 23andme. I have looked into this and spoken to her at length via email. We have concluded that it is a distant relationship 1630's possibly during the "Thirty Years War" in Europe where Finnish troops were deployed in battle with mainland European Catholics.

I really don't know why I match Scandinavians closer than they match themselves. I have posted my results in at number of forums including DNA forums and no one seems to have a clue except for the standard remark
"are you sure you are pure Croatian?" I have very high Runs of Homozygosity (ROHs) 68.616% which is higher then most Finns. This tells you that you may be from a bottle-necked population. Coastal Croatia is very mountainous and protected. Perhaps there are pockets where ancient peoples were bottle-necked and interbred extensively. These original people could have been similar genetically to Scandinavians? Or the only other way to explain my high match with Icelanders would be to theorize that there were "recent" (500-1000 years) visits by Viking traders and that they interbred with the locals?

You need to interpret the results carefully as well. If you look at the chromosome map some of the bands are in ancient regions that are common to a lot of Europeans. However even when all of this is subtracted I still end up matching Icelanders better than any other population.

Wilhelm
21-04-10, 02:08
Something is missing here. Are you sure your whole ancestry is Croatian ?

Maciamo
21-04-10, 08:29
AFAIK the global similarity compares you to all reference populations at the 1Kb level. This does not include any friends or public friends. So the my No. 1 ranking with Iceland would be a comparison with the whole reference population.

Where did you read that there were more than one individual used per reference population ? How would they even out differences in alleles ?




We have concluded that it is a distant relationship 1630's possibly during the "Thirty Years War" in Europe where Finnish troops were deployed in battle with mainland European Catholics.

I am very sceptical about that kind of explanation. Even if a Finnish soldier did have a child in Croatia and you descend from this person, there would be almost no genetic impact on you after so many generations. After 12 generations he would be just 1 out of 4096 ancestors from that generation. I know someone who is 1/8 Chinese and 7/8 European and doesn't look Asian at all. What's 1/4096 or 1/8192 ?



I have very high Runs of Homozygosity (ROHs) 68.616% which is higher then most Finns. This tells you that you may be from a bottle-necked population. Coastal Croatia is very mountainous and protected. Perhaps there are pockets where ancient peoples were bottle-necked and interbred extensively. These original people could have been similar genetically to Scandinavians? Or the only other way to explain my high match with Icelanders would be to theorize that there were "recent" (500-1000 years) visits by Viking traders and that they interbred with the locals?

Croatia is an interesting country for geneticists indeed. In terms of Y-DNA and mtDNA there are big differences between the various parts of Croatia, and sometimes islands that are completely different from the next island.

In south-west Croatia, close to Slovenia, there is a lot of R1a and R1b, in addition to the more widespread I2a2. MtDNA indicates (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=355093&postcount=2)a major migration of Indo-European people to the region, notably on the islands of Cres and Krk. Overall, Krk has about 50% of Indo-European Y-DNA (R1a, R1b) and 25% of Indo-European mtDNA (I, W, U2, U3, U4). The rest being mostly Paleolithic European haplogroups it is not dissimilar to the pattern found in Scandinavia of R1a + R1b + I1. You just need to replace I1 by I2a2. The Indo-European element date from the same period and probably have the same source. If all hg I people were genetically close then it would explain the closeness between south-west Croatians and Scandinavians.

rogers
21-04-10, 12:27
Something is missing here. Are you sure your whole ancestry is Croatian ?

Are you trying to be funny?

rogers
21-04-10, 12:51
Where did you read that there were more than one individual used per reference population ? How would they even out differences in alleles ?

This was discussed in DNA forums and on the community threads on the Decodeme web site. The staff at Decodeme confirm that it is a comparison against the entire reference population.



I am very sceptical about that kind of explanation. Even if a Finnish soldier did have a child in Croatia and you descend from this person, there would be almost no genetic impact on you after so many generations. After 12 generations he would be just 1 out of 4096 ancestors from that generation. I know someone who is 1/8 Chinese and 7/8 European and doesn't look Asian at all. What's 1/4096 or 1/8192 ?

Not quite true. This was based on a low recombination region on a chromosome. Even after twelve generations there will be some HIRs (half identical regions) along chromosomes that get passed down. My HIR with this Finnish lady is almost 6cM and involves 1326 SNPs. Too big to be ancient.



Croatia is an interesting country for geneticists indeed. In terms of Y-DNA and mtDNA there are big differences between the various parts of Croatia, and sometimes islands that are completely different from the next island.

In south-west Croatia, close to Slovenia, there is a lot of R1a and R1b, in addition to the more widespread I2a2. MtDNA indicates (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=355093&postcount=2)a major migration of Indo-European people to the region, notably on the islands of Cres and Krk. Overall, Krk has about 50% of Indo-European Y-DNA (R1a, R1b) and 25% of Indo-European mtDNA (I, W, U2, U3, U4). The rest being mostly Paleolithic European haplogroups it is not dissimilar to the pattern found in Scandinavia of R1a + R1b + I1. You just need to replace I1 by I2a2. The Indo-European element date from the same period and probably have the same source. If all hg I people were genetically close then it would explain the closeness between south-west Croatians and Scandinavians.

Yes I agree. I2a2 is a very young subclade 2,500 years by some estimates. I don't think haplogroups have anything to do with my result with Icelanders. It could be something very regional ie. other Croats might be entirely different to me. I have a friend who is half Croatian (mother's side) and half Swedish (father's side). He hails from a town in Croatia that is very close to where my ancestors come from. He recently told me that on his mothers side of the family there are last names that look Icelandic in origin from hundreds of years ago. I am not sure weather to take this with a grain of salt?

Joro
21-04-10, 14:17
Where did you read that there were more than one individual used per reference population ? How would they even out differences in alleles ?




I am very sceptical about that kind of explanation. Even if a Finnish soldier did have a child in Croatia and you descend from this person, there would be almost no genetic impact on you after so many generations. After 12 generations he would be just 1 out of 4096 ancestors from that generation. I know someone who is 1/8 Chinese and 7/8 European and doesn't look Asian at all. What's 1/4096 or 1/8192 ?



Croatia is an interesting country for geneticists indeed. In terms of Y-DNA and mtDNA there are big differences between the various parts of Croatia, and sometimes islands that are completely different from the next island.

In south-west Croatia, close to Slovenia, there is a lot of R1a and R1b, in addition to the more widespread I2a2. MtDNA indicates (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=355093&postcount=2)a major migration of Indo-European people to the region, notably on the islands of Cres and Krk. Overall, Krk has about 50% of Indo-European Y-DNA (R1a, R1b) and 25% of Indo-European mtDNA (I, W, U2, U3, U4). The rest being mostly Paleolithic European haplogroups it is not dissimilar to the pattern found in Scandinavia of R1a + R1b + I1. You just need to replace I1 by I2a2. The Indo-European element date from the same period and probably have the same source. If all hg I people were genetically close then it would explain the closeness between south-west Croatians and Scandinavians.

Actually, on Krk there is probably ~15% of I1.

^ lynx ^
13-05-10, 15:40
As Segia well said people in my country tend to identify themselves as "roman/latin" due to our predominatly linguistic heritage from latin and the fact that most of them aren't aware of the scientific researches on our genetic pool.

Personally, I don't tend to identify myself with ethnicities but with nationalities: Portugueses, italians, frenchs, andorrans...

Greetings.

Aristander
15-07-10, 21:39
My paternal DNA results were surprising. My 6th grandfather of my surname reportedly came from Limerick, Ireland to the US in the early 19th century. I expected my DNA results to be typical Irish/ celtic then - R1b plus. Instead my results were Y-DNA I2a which I guess is a rare haplo to have, found largely in eastern Europe.
I believe at one time Ireland was a haven for Norse raiders so perhaps one of your distant ancestors was the product of one of the Norse from Kiev and picked up the I2a from there?

Pallantides
25-07-10, 19:24
I identify as Norwegian but I most likely have some Scottish, German, Saami and Finnish ancestry.
In 1702 about 40% of Trondheim's population were German and some 100,000 east Norwegians have Forest Finn ancestry and large groups of Scots immigrated to western Norway in the 16th to the 18th century, so many people in Norway is bound to have some non-Norwegian ancestry one way or another.


At 23andMe the DNA company I had myself tested, they now include a tool 'Ancestry finder', here is my results with 4 grandparents from the same country at 5cm.

Norway 2.7%
United Kingdom 0.5%
Sweden 0.4%
Switzerland 0.2%
Russia 0.2%
Germany 0.2%
Finland 0.2%
Denmark 0.2%
Bulgaria 0.2%
Netherlands 0.1%
Italy 0.1%

Aristander
30-07-10, 05:52
I used to think of myself as mostly of Germanic heritage, since I paternal g-g-g-grandfather immigrated from there, and for several generations married women of Germanic heritage. One set of my maternal g-grandparents were German speakers from what is now the Czech Republic.
However after researching my genealogy I discovered that about half of my ancestors were of Anglo/Norman and Anglo/Celtic origin with a fairly large Scots representation.
I still haven't received the results of deep clade testing from FTDNA or my MTDAN so all I can say is my Y-DNA is R1b1b2 M-269, which could be pretty much any place in Western Europe.

Carlitos
01-09-10, 23:54
Hi, again, this is my first post, so I will say hello to everyone.

I realized genetic testing and my results were due to DNA and Hamit, meditate Canaanite (Phoenician) and mitochondrial DNA Celta (Europe)

Semitic Duwa
02-09-10, 21:56
^^I identify with Amorite tribes based on my Y-DNA.

Carlitos
03-09-10, 02:39
^^


Before genetic testing me I had always identified with the Tartessos. Although it is true that he felt a part of me was from some distant place, I even went through the mind a remote black ancestor, I also had the familiar feeling as finding the time and area in which Jesus lived.

Once I test I discover with surprise that DNA Y mitochondrial DNA Phoenician and Celtic. I have an ancestor on his mother's Portuguese who arrived in Spain on the 1860 or so, so I have their mitochondrial DNA, their surnames were Figueira Ardila, a Portuguese in another forum told me that it is likely that these names belonged to the Portuguese Alentejo.

Semitic Duwa
04-09-10, 20:28
It seems that I know about you.....:)

Carlitos
04-09-10, 20:32
^^

Yes, yes, yes

Cambrius (The Red)
10-09-10, 14:44
I identify with the Gallaecian Celts, specifically.

Gusar
11-09-10, 13:09
Europe is an ethnic melting pot. Well, let's not exaggerate. Europeans are genetically among the most homogeneous racial group. Indians, South-East Asians, Middle-Easterners, Central Asians and Africans all have greater genetic diversity than Europeans. But we were taught at school that Europe had a long history of invasions, wars, conquests and migrations. And it is true. What I am interested in here is how do Europeans see themselves. To put it differently, when you read a history book, who do you identify as your ancestors ?


The question also depends a bit on what is meant by ancient. In European context I found one definition which defines "ancient" as being before the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in 476 ad. My people (the Serbs) are one of the oldest ethnicities in Europe. Our name safely exists as an ethnonym from about the 7th century though there are theories which point to it existing earlier such as the name of a Sarmatian tribe mentioned in the 1st century by Pliny the Elder. In any case I feel that my people are definitely one of the oldest continuous ethnicities in Europe so I feel we are in some way ancient as it is. Our ethnogenisis is comprised of a mix of slavic peoples and autochthonous Balkan peoples such as the Illyrians and Thracians. As it stands, it's really a debate of how much of each (slavic or Balkan) contributes to our ethnogenesis. In any case I personally feel highly connected to all slavic peoples but also to those of antiquity since culturally it's pretty well established that some Serbian customs descend from slavic Pagan beliefs... so I definitely feel most highly connected to early slavic peoples rather than Balkan peoples past or present. There even exists a theory that teh Serbian ethnonym was the original name for slavs and I think there is some merit to it.

julia90
25-09-10, 17:46
I identify myself with Etruscans and ancient Romans.
As far as genetic researches Tuscans are placed between Northern Italians and Southern Italians, they are considered "mediterranean" south europeans.

a genetic reaserach shows that Tuscans areabout 1/3 of asiaminor/neolithic mediterranean derivation; for two 2/3 they share genes with other europeans

Wilhelm
25-09-10, 18:30
I identify myself with Etruscans and ancient Romans.
As far as genetic researches Tuscans are placed between Northern Italians and Southern Italians, they are considered "mediterranean" south europeans.

a genetic reaserach shows that Tuscans areabout 1/3 of asiaminor/neolithic mediterranean derivation; for two 2/3 they share genes with other europeans
That's strange. In all the Tuscan studies they are far more than 2/3 european:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/R79MXyHURCI/AAAAAAAAAFg/8MeKImXcV34/s1600/structurescience.jpg

julia90
25-09-10, 18:40
well, based on that map you are right but i was referring to this genetic research:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/09/using-admixture-on-xing-et-al-2010.html
look on the table and the percentages

Wilhelm
25-09-10, 21:54
well, based on that map you are right but i was referring to this genetic research:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/09/using-admixture-on-xing-et-al-2010.html
look on the table and the percentages
Yes, but the component I means "West Asian" which is very unclear..

Carlitos
28-09-10, 00:40
I identify with Tartessos. The Phoenicians and the Celts had much to do in Tartessos and those are my two genetic lineages.

Taranis
28-09-10, 08:38
I identify with Tartessos. The Phoenicians and the Celts had much to do in Tartessos and those are my two genetic lineages.

Frankly, in my opinion (you may have noticed that from the other thread) I don't think that there were any Celts in Tartessos. At least not by the time that Tartessos flourished and the Tartessian inscriptions of the Algarve were written.

In my opinion, Tartessos was either Iberian-speaking (which means the inscriptions of the Algarve were not actually made by the Tartessians), or it spoke an other, non-Indo-European language (the language from the "Tartessian" inscriptions). Either way, the descendants of the Tartessians were celticized only centuries later.

Carlitos
28-09-10, 15:24
You, wrong, I'm telling you, I'm Tartesso, time and research will give me the reason, besides all the great hitori of all time, I'm Tartesso, I notice it, sorry, at some point in my history lineage belonged to the realm of Tartessos.

^ lynx ^
30-09-10, 02:43
Just for the record: Ignore the troll.

iodalach_draiodoir
30-09-10, 05:05
Hi, this is my first post and I couldn't find any thread to introduce myself. I was born and live in Rio, Brazil and have roots in Northern Italy (Trento, Verona, Belluno, Vicenza, Pistoia, Como, Pordenone), in Germany (Niedersachsen, former Kingdom of Hannover; Rheinland-Pfalz, former Rheinhesse in the Grand-Duchy of Hesse-Darmstadt; Württemberg), in France (Nevers, Burgundy), in Portugal (Bragança, Braga, Viseu, Coimbra, Lisboa, Minho, Algarve) and in native americans (Guarani, Kaingang and Xokleng people from South Brazil) and afro-brazilians. A melting pot of races...:)

Sometime ago I did my Y-DNA test and discovered I am a R-U106. The most ancient ancestor in male line I know was Simone Zeni, born c. 1794 in Brentonico, Trento. Anyway, notices from Brentonico say that Zeni family came from Verona in 17th century, and this surname is due to devotion to Saint Zeno, a bishop of Verona in 7th century.

Answering to the thread question, well I most identify to celts and my DNA is confused about it :) It seems to me there is a doubt about R-U106; I still don't know if they are mostly like to be rhaetians, celts or a kind of viking's ancestor who stopped in the Alps. Any help would be appreciated.

iodalach_draiodoir
30-09-10, 05:15
Anyway, I have surely autossomal celtic gens... Northern Portugal is almost exclusively of celt origin, as well as South Germany. As I already told you, I am a melting pot...vikings, celts, visigoths and etruscans are surely in my ancestry.

Carlitos
30-09-10, 15:50
Anyway, I have surely autossomal celtic gens... Northern Portugal is almost exclusively of celt origin, as well as South Germany. As I already told you, I am a melting pot...vikings, celts, visigoths and etruscans are surely in my ancestry.


http://www.kalipedia.com/kalipediamedia/penrelcul/media/200707/18/relycult/20070718klpprcryc_7.Ees.SCO.png

As you can see from this map, not just the north of Portugal can be accused of being a Celtic.

http://fisterras.soios.com/europa/imagen/celtas%20de%20Iberia.gif

Red Celts who specifically cited the ancients.

Taranis
30-09-10, 16:04
Both maps ignore the existence of Lusitanian as a separate (non-Celtic but nonetheless Indo-European) language. Also, the maps (especially the second one) is somewhat anachronistic.

Also, the Celtici aren't ancient. They probably arrive in Baetica only after approximately the 4th century BC.

Carlitos
30-09-10, 23:35
^

Others say the V BC, others speak of proto-Celtic presence, there is no uniformity on the subject.

iodalach_draiodoir
01-10-10, 04:58
Not planning to feed the troll, but I've never said only Northern Portugal had celtic people. I just said it is undeniable it was home of celtic tribes, as well as Galiza. Period.

Carlitos
01-10-10, 15:59
Not planning to feed the troll, but I've never said only Northern Portugal had celtic people. I just said it is undeniable it was home of celtic tribes, as well as Galiza. Period.

I note that in nothing is look at the maps and ignores the information of the ancients.
The Celts were everywhere.

Norþman
02-10-10, 00:26
Hi everyone, Iv been reading comments on this board for a while now and think its a great place to gain knowledge of our ancestors , I'm from England , Nottingham ( yes yes Robin hood county i know lol). I'm looking forward to discussing many topics , I'm very fond of history and science and astronomy . There may be a formal introduction thread , but I'm to eager to start posting.

I would say i identify myself as being Anglo Saxon , But i know from my grandmothers side of the family were from wales, So my family might have Celtic blood as well . I'm dieing to get a DNA test done but its very costly, But I'm willing to get it done in the near future.

I would defiantly identify myself as being Saxon , And i think England as got a connection with scandinavia and north Germany , Because of the viking invasions and the Norman conquest. I say north Germany because that's where the Angles were from .

Carlitos
02-10-10, 01:10
^^

Do not forget to Spain, the motherland, we can touch, do not bite. Why everyone wants to be Viking?, Hollywood is to blame.


"Robbin Hodd?, You'll see that you will have success, especially Spanish sewn questions you have seen a lot of films, you really have to acknowledge that England has sold very well their cartoons, all over the world there are stories, but support that has given the American cinema is unparalleled, Robin dozens of films for example, that everybody knows, any Spanish better than his own, perhaps more spectacular, there's nothing like the marketing.

------------0-------------


You know exactly how many Robin Hood films were made before yours, in addition to the popular versions of Kevin Costner and Errol Flynn?

More than fifty, for sure. In total I think there were 70 productions

http://digitalgroup.info/wordpress/?p=11180

Norþman
02-10-10, 02:40
Hi there carlitos , I don't want to be Viking , The English are mostly made up of Anglo Saxon, and Viking in the north of England , I can't deny who my ancestors are . Robin the hood was a real man , There's caves in Nottingham That's been tunneled , That's were he and his merry men used to hide out . I know what your trying to say tho about Hollywood .

Hollywood exaggerate , its what they do.

Your right about England selling there stories , Its purely because the language as got a massive vocabulary, That's the beauty of the English language , god bless those Anglo Saxons .

Do you not like American cinema ?

Norþman
02-10-10, 02:47
Carlito , Spain is a beautiful country with beautiful people , Iv been to Gran canaries 3 times and Costa Del sol once , I went sea fishing in Costa Del sol , The dolphins were following our boat we hired out , And scaring all our fish away , That's why i didn't catch anything lol.

^ lynx ^
02-10-10, 03:22
I stand behind my last post in this thread. Welcome to the forum, Norþman.

Norþman
02-10-10, 11:38
I stand behind my last post in this thread. Welcome to the forum, Norþman.

Hello Lynx, Thankyou for the welcome.

Carlitos
02-10-10, 16:03
What horror I have to see the comments quoted lynx, I told him idolatry you can not stand the idolaters who surrender to cultural imposition USA brand and the film is its largest advertising medium in which the English very well go out standing, the Vikings also the rest appear impersonal, immoral, insensitive, carrying all the more undesirable topics of this world, no friend, things are not so.

I have nothing against Robin, but as Robin in all countries have dozens, I'd like to meet other comics from other countries in Europe and the world through American movies, because when they want to make movies as anyone, but most films Robin please do not!, are already 70 films, there are wonderful stories all over the world, sorry, but the stories have exploded both based in England which tires and the same subject, even in historical times where we were the Spanish players, for saying them Thus, in Hollywood manages to make the English players, that's called cultural fascism and if added British films Hollywood makes movies that British subjects do the English course is an indigestion.

^ lynx ^
02-10-10, 16:42
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cnUe2D6K76g/RpfB5U7pXPI/AAAAAAAAAYU/IvZXVFSX1Xk/s400/trolls.jpg

Carlitos
02-10-10, 16:46
^ lynx ^ (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/member.php?u=27982) This message is hidden because ^ lynx ^ is on your ignore list (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist).


The day is splendid, tomorrow comes the cold, I'm going out for a while and enjoy this wonderful day.

Norþman
02-10-10, 18:23
What horror I have to see the comments quoted lynx, I told him idolatry you can not stand the idolaters who surrender to cultural imposition USA brand and the film is its largest advertising medium in which the English very well go out standing, the Vikings also the rest appear impersonal, immoral, insensitive, carrying all the more undesirable topics of this world, no friend, things are not so.

I have nothing against Robin, but as Robin in all countries have dozens, I'd like to meet other comics from other countries in Europe and the world through American movies, because when they want to make movies as anyone, but most films Robin please do not!, are already 70 films, there are wonderful stories all over the world, sorry, but the stories have exploded both based in England which tires and the same subject, even in historical times where we were the Spanish players, for saying them Thus, in Hollywood manages to make the English players, that's called cultural fascism and if added British films Hollywood makes movies that British subjects do the English course is an indigestion.
I think you and your partner in crime are being stupid and childish , i was merely stating who my Ancestors are , and now I'm bombarded with this drivel. I mentioned robin hood because I'm from Nottingham and when i tell people I'm from Nottingham allot of folk mention robin hood , Got it.

I haven't bragged about anything or said anything to boost my own countries status so how can i be trolling ?
Iv said nothing but kind words to you and this is how i get greeted thanks a bunch Spaniard. Count yourself on my ignore list.

Do yourselves the favor and lose the inferior complex.

Films are just films to me, A form of entertainment, well the ones worth watching , I happen to like european films as well as American.

Have a nice day or not.

^ lynx ^
02-10-10, 18:38
I think you and your partner in crime

I have nothing to do with Carlitos. On the contrary, I've tried to warn you about this guy:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cnUe2D6K76g/RpfB5U7pXPI/AAAAAAAAAYU/IvZXVFSX1Xk/s400/trolls.jpg

Greetings.

Norþman
02-10-10, 19:07
Please accept my apology for this misunderstanding Lynx, sorry.:good_job:

^ lynx ^
02-10-10, 19:20
No prob. ;-)

Richard Coyle
02-10-10, 20:03
I do have a great deal of respect for the Greek and Roman achievements. The American idea is built mostly upon the Anglo-Saxon, the Greek, and the Roman achievements.

Carlitos
03-10-10, 00:08
I think you and your partner in crime are being stupid and childish , i was merely stating who my Ancestors are , and now I'm bombarded with this drivel. I mentioned robin hood because I'm from Nottingham and when i tell people I'm from Nottingham allot of folk mention robin hood , Got it.

I haven't bragged about anything or said anything to boost my own countries status so how can i be trolling ?
Iv said nothing but kind words to you and this is how i get greeted thanks a bunch Spaniard. Count yourself on my ignore list.

Do yourselves the favor and lose the inferior complex.

Films are just films to me, A form of entertainment, well the ones worth watching , I happen to like european films as well as American.

Have a nice day or not.

The history of his country CIENMIL repeated times in American cinema and his own, exhausted, frankly, for two reasons.

1 - Dan an excellent treatment and superior to any ordinary event as long as English is enough.
2 - They do not respect the historical truth.

The film is a powerful medium that reaches all corners of the world and I think that 70 films about Robin Hood is an outrage, another 400,000 on any time in its history is something unbearable, are projected in theaters, television networks after the repeated and advertising is just where you are always the protagonists and it's good enough cultural fascism! you never beat the Armada, acknowledge that even in an episode of The Simpsons comes out, enough!

Postscript: In my theory as I talk about film and film tackles all Anglo-Saxon culture respect like the Bantu, or whatever it is, does not attract me too, but the bombing of the film industry to the world with Anglo-Saxon themes and, in the 21 st century unbearable and unbelievable.



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jiQPBoqqt6M/Sb0wxIodZYI/AAAAAAAADLI/IaOJmdEe-Lc/s400/robin_hood.JPG
http://www.prostars.es/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/robin-hood.jpg
http://www.jonasarmstrong.net/RHPublicityImages/robin_hood_03_400x300.jpg
http://roberthuntstudio.com/images/slideshow/Book%20editorial%20%20resized/ROBIN%20HOOD%20.jpg




I understand, it's clear!, Enough please! and so with 40,000 (and I'm short) films dealing with the Anglo world, always with a unique and preferential treatment.

^ lynx ^
03-10-10, 00:28
@ Norþman. It's very easy, just click on the nickname "Carlitos" > See public profile > User lists > Add to ignore list.

I encourage everyone to do the same with the fake spaniard from Chihuahua. :good_job:

Norþman
03-10-10, 17:14
@ Norþman. It's very easy, just click on the nickname "Carlitos" > See public profile > User lists > Add to ignore list.

I encourage everyone to do the same with the fake Spaniard from Chihuahua. :good_job:
ha ha , so that's how you do it , I'm new to forums so i didn't know how to put him on ignore , Thanks lynx .

I was trying yesterday , but then i needed to go out , so i didn't accomplish my goal .

Why is he so persistent on this robin hood thing , i wish i never mentioned robin hood lol

Carlitos
03-10-10, 17:31
I am ashamed of the words of lynx and ask all the Mexicans and South Americans, who do not take seriously the words of a lynx, I admire the culture and the feeling and the character of the Mexican people and other peoples of South America and please do not think that all the Spanish are like lynx, thank goodness.



Norpman
Why is he so persistent on this robin hood thing , i wish i never mentioned robin hood lol

Man, keep a sense of humor!


The whole world is wondering why 70 films about Robin Hood?, Why? There are other heroes and villains around the world to make films without depleting global audiences with the same character.

Hollywood is very good British subjects, including English pirates show as good, excellent people found attacking Spanish goods, would you do grace to USA Spain in the future RICE showing a film as good heroes Al Qaeda attacking U.S. assets?, then exactly why I do not like the lies of American cinema.

Cambrius (The Red)
03-10-10, 19:33
Welcome to the forum Nortpman!

Cambrius (The Red)
03-10-10, 19:37
@ Norþman. It's very easy, just click on the nickname "Carlitos" > See public profile > User lists > Add to ignore list.
I encourage everyone to do the same with the fake spaniard from Chihuahua. :good_job:

How many insecure Mexicans are on this forum pretending to be something else? Quite annoying... :annoyed:

Cambrius (The Red)
03-10-10, 19:37
@ Norþman. It's very easy, just click on the nickname "Carlitos" > See public profile > User lists > Add to ignore list.
I encourage everyone to do the same with the fake spaniard from Chihuahua. :good_job:

Thanks for the heads-up.

^ lynx ^
03-10-10, 20:16
ha ha , so that's how you do it , I'm new to forums so i didn't know how to put him on ignore , Thanks lynx .

I was trying yesterday , but then i needed to go out , so i didn't accomplish my goal .

Why is he so persistent on this robin hood thing , i wish i never mentioned robin hood lol

His true account is Sirious2b. A racist mexican who tried to deny the amerindian genetic legacy in the mexican people. He came here and started suggesting that mexicans and spaniards are just the same as a whole. We made him see that it was totally ridiculous, mexicans are partially spaniards but their main genetic legacy is amerindian. I think that somehow he felt rejected and humilliated since we exposed his inferiority complex. From that moment on he has tried everything to portray spaniards as racist and full of complexes. It is his way of taking revenge, I guess.



I admire the culture and the feeling and the character of the Mexican people and other peoples of South America and please do not think that all the Spanish are like lynx, thank goodness.

I have nothing against south american cultures, Sirious2b. I've been fascinated by the azthec and the inca civilizations since I was a child. It's the insecure latin american trolls obsessed with Spain like you what bothers me.

Greetings.

PS- I love the mexican food, btw.

Norþman
03-10-10, 21:44
Cambria red thank you for the welcome.

He may not like his own culture for some reason, Personally if i was a Mexican i wouldn't deny that I'm a Mexican , You are who you are, There is nothing that can change that . They have a long and interesting history he should be proud of that .

I also like Mexican food , Fajitas and nachos with melted cheese , mmmmmmm

iodalach_draiodoir
03-10-10, 22:05
Very curious. Generally people are very proud of their amerindian roots here in South America. In Brazil people always tell about their amerindian great-grandma and so on...
I have myself a lot of amerindian ancestor and have identified their tribes and religious registry.

Carlitos
03-10-10, 22:20
He may not like his own culture for some reason,



Revenge! :laughing:



Think anyone on this forum think that Carlitos is a Mexican who poses as a Spanish, what's the point?, Is a waste of time to pay attention to lynx.

Mexico has always been one of the countries I would like to visit America some day, many flight hours and I have pending before other European countries.

I laugh at the situation if we're all half crazy with the origins of haplogroups, now just need someone to give us another new source, so far I thought my remote was Canaanite origin and Celtic, it turns out that I am Mexican ... I'm going to go crazy.

^ lynx ^
03-10-10, 23:14
Very curious. Generally people are very proud of their amerindian roots here in South America. In Brazil people always tell about their amerindian great-grandma and so on...
I have myself a lot of amerindian ancestor and have identified their tribes and religious registry.

I'm sure that there are plenty of south americans proud of their amerindian heritage but there are others who see that heritage as a shameful stigma and try to hide it. I've seen it with my own eyes a lot of times. Apparently we are dealing with one of these.

Greetings.

By the way, welcome to the forum iodalach_draiodoir.

Carlitos
03-10-10, 23:39
Now I understand everything, just send me a message in which I reveal that lynx came from Spanish Gypsy father, something that has no importance, except for a xenophobe, is the source of their hatred is not accepted himself and projected on frustration that others do not like your haplogroup Spanish Gypsy.

It's absurd! lynx you have to accept yourself.

^ lynx ^
04-10-10, 00:57
Now I understand everything, just send me a message in which I reveal that lynx came from Spanish Gypsy father, something that has no importance, except for a xenophobe, is the source of their hatred is not accepted himself and projected on frustration that others do not like your haplogroup Spanish Gypsy.

It's absurd! lynx you have to accept yourself.

And now he uses the gypsy people as a racial slur. Reporting trolling message to the moderators. Star to create a new account, you have practice for sure, racist mexitroll. ;-)

It's 1.00 AM in Spain so I have to go asleep already. For sure, Carlitos can continue with his trolling since it is 18.00 PM in Mexico. I don't blame you for passing so much time in your home, mexican streets are not very safe for a teenager.

Ciao mexitroll. ;-)

iodalach_draiodoir
04-10-10, 03:03
I'm sure that there are plenty of south americans proud of their amerindian heritage but there are others who see that heritage as a shameful stigma and try to hide it. I've seen it with my own eyes a lot of times. Apparently we are dealing with one of these.

Greetings.

By the way, welcome to the forum iodalach_draiodoir.

Psychanalitic problems, we cannot help him :laughing:

Thanks for your kindness!

Cambrius (The Red)
04-10-10, 05:01
There are some sick people in various parts of Spanish speaking America who despise their genetic heritage, and they relieve their insecurities by painting Spaniards something they are not. Quite pathetic...

iodalach_draiodoir
04-10-10, 15:35
Lets add these people to our ignore list...

Carlitos
04-10-10, 15:37
Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ http://www.eupedia.com/forum/images/buttonscolour/viewpost.gif (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=360630#post360630)
I've seen it with my own eyes a lot of times. Apparently we are dealing with one of these.


Realize your haplogroup Y is a spanish Gypsy. Should not cause shame or self-rejection, carry 500 years in Spain and are as Spanish as the rest. When you leave to go accept the forums accusing others of what you're doing yourself.

bud
04-10-10, 16:55
Celtic/Germanic for myself.

^ lynx ^
04-10-10, 17:10
Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ http://www.eupedia.com/forum/images/buttonscolour/viewpost.gif (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=360630#post360630)
I've seen it with my own eyes a lot of times. Apparently we are dealing with one of these.


Realize your haplogroup Y is a spanish Gypsy. Should not cause shame or self-rejection, carry 500 years in Spain and are as Spanish as the rest. When you leave to go accept the forums accusing others of what you're doing yourself.


If you think you offend me by calling me gypsy you're wasting your keyboard, mexitroll.

I'm reporting all your racist/trolling messages... so please, keep it coming. I'm not the one hiding his true nationality, and I'm not the one ashamed of his amerindian genetic legacy either, mexitroll.

Greetings cuate. ;-)

iodalach_draiodoir
04-10-10, 20:12
^ lynx ^, don't waste your time with trolls! Forget him and lets discuss constructive matters. He's already in my ignore list.

Aristander
04-10-10, 20:41
^ lynx ^, don't waste your time with trolls! Forget him and lets discuss constructive matters. He's already in my ignore list.

Hang around here a while and get the feel of the place before you start putting people on your iqnore list. Just because one member labels another a Troll, doesn't make it so.
I have found that often those who complain the loudest about others being trolls are sometimes the biggest trolls of all. :good_job:
Remember the first rule of a successful propaganda minister, if you scream something loud enough and often enough some people will believe you. Even if it is a blatant and outlandish lie. :grin:

iodalach_draiodoir
04-10-10, 20:58
Aristander,
Thanks for your attention, but I really don't need to follow anyone's track to find out who is a troll and who is not...

Carlitos
04-10-10, 23:03
^ lynx ^, don't waste your time with trolls! Forget him and lets discuss constructive matters. He's already in my ignore list.


I barely know you honestly do not know why it has to support a sick person as Lynx, who came to send private messages dozens of insulting the American poor patient because he thinks I'm Mexican and believe me if you knew what the Brazilians think lynx would call Carlitos Troll and he would realize that is fueling the real Troll is lynx.

I do not care what they want to believe, because as I told you barely know, but what I can tell you is that never in life people speak ill of any South American or from another continent, is treated with great respect to Brazilians living in Spain, Mexicans are very few in Spain, but it's my favorite country in the Americas, have met Chilean, Ecuadorian, Uruguayan, Argentine, Colombian and I am very sorry that one speaks Spanish as lynx and insult people by nationality I feel embarrassed, so do what you want, I defend the freedom and hope to make a fair decision.

Greetings.

^ lynx ^
04-10-10, 23:17
Don't bother playing the victim's game, CarlitoSirious. You have already revealed your racist and troll-ish nature by using the gypsy people to insult others. Mods have already been contacted.


Warm regards.

Carlitos
04-10-10, 23:25
If you're free of enemies because nobody did insult, no shortage of others who are out of envy. "Seneca"

Chris
06-10-10, 16:16
Aristander,
Thanks for your attention, but I really don't need to follow anyone's track to find out who is a troll and who is not...

Welcome to one U106 merchant from another! :good_job:

Cheers, Chris

iodalach_draiodoir
06-10-10, 17:36
Thanks, Chris!
I see you are L48; at this time all my sub-U106 tests got negative and it seems I am a S21*. Anyway, you are my relative LOL.
What is your opinion about U106? Do you think it entered England with the angles?

Carlitos
06-10-10, 23:35
The mitochondrial DNA with the DNA Y are the present owner, say they lost in the descent of man, some say macho is not important. What is your mitochondrial DNA?, Is a question that threw the air.

iodalach_draiodoir
07-10-10, 02:00
Although I'd understood almost nothing in your text, my mtDNA haplogroup is A and I'm very proud of it. I'm descent in maternal lineage from sagamore Tibiriçá, chief of Guayanás people from São Paulo, Brazil. Her daughter Mboytira, christened as Isabel Dias and married to the portuguese João Ramalho, who lived in the 16th century, is my mother's maternal most distant known ancestor.

Carlitos
08-10-10, 01:50
^
I'm proud of humanity, of everything we have achieved, there is hope for humans.

LeBrok
08-10-10, 06:13
I identify with Global Village,...well maybe more like Euro village. :)

Maciamo
08-10-10, 10:09
Although I'd understood almost nothing in your text, my mtDNA haplogroup is A and I'm very proud of it. I'm descent in maternal lineage from sagamore Tibiriçá, chief of Guayanás people from São Paulo, Brazil. Her daughter Mboytira, christened as Isabel Dias and married to the portuguese João Ramalho, who lived in the 16th century, is my mother's maternal most distant known ancestor.

A is the most common haplogroup among Amerindians, but it is also found among all East Asians and Siberians. There are probably more Chinese belonging to hg A than people in the Americas. That's why it's important to know once subclade, to differentiate between continents and countries.

Yorkie
08-10-10, 14:49
Speaking personally, as an Englishman, I tend to think of myself as a mixture of Germanic and Celtic. This is going strictly by the 4 lines of ancestry that I've tested for so far- I1, I2a2, H5 and U5a1.

When I've taken the plunge re autosomal testing I may have a clearer picture. I suspect that overall, the Germanic component is larger.

iodalach_draiodoir
08-10-10, 17:07
A is the most common haplogroup among Amerindians, but it is also found among all East Asians and Siberians. There are probably more Chinese belonging to hg A than people in the Americas. That's why it's important to know once subclade, to differentiate between continents and countries.

My mtDNA subclade test is still running; however, it is almost impossible to be from East Asia or Siberia, I have really no ancestors from there. A is a common mtDNA haplogroup in Brazil, since here the general rule is: Y-DNA european (mostly portuguese) and mtDNA amerindian (mostly A; X is almost inexistent here).

DavidCoutts
24-10-10, 17:10
Celtic. If you believe EA, as far back as the Picts. Funnily enough, I don't "feel" Celtic, whatever that actually means. For example, I've always identified with the Norse myths rather than Celtic paganism which, frankly, makes Scientology look simple and easy to understand...:startled:

But there's no getting away from Genetics; I'm a Celt wether I like it or not.

iodalach_draiodoir
26-10-10, 02:59
Gártha!
Celtic legends and myths are not complex; you just have to understand with your heart and feel the ancestor spirits alive. Anyway, the norse religion (Ásatrú) is also great and I don't see any issue in worship different pantheons, even 'cause you surely have norse ancestry in autosomal dna.

Below, a beautiful prayer for Brighit, Brighde or Bride, maybe the most known and important celtic goddess:

"Gabhaim molta Brighde"

Gabhaim molta Brighde, Iníon í le hÉireann,
Iníon le gach tír í, molaiimís go léir í.
(I sing loudly the praise to Brighde, daughter not only of Éire
But of all countries of the World; lets praise her!)

Lóchrann geal na Laighneach, soils' ar feadh na tire,
Ceann ar óigheacht Éireann, ceann na mban ar mine.
(Leinster bright lamp, the flame that crosses the land,
Leader of the young women of Ireland, one of the best women who ever lived)

Tig an geimhreadh dian dubh, gearra lena géire,
Ach ar lá le Brighde, gar duinn Earrach Éireann.
(The hard dark winter comes, rough and sharp
But when the day of Brighde comes, the spring of Éire is not far away anymore)

DavidCoutts
26-10-10, 18:09
Gártha!
Celtic legends and myths are not complex; you just have to understand with your heart and feel the ancestor spirits alive. Anyway, the norse religion (Ásatrú) is also great and I don't see any issue in worship different pantheons,even 'cause you surely have norse ancestry in autosomal dna.

Below, a beautiful prayer for Brighit, Brighde or Bride, maybe the most known and important celtic goddess:

"Gabhaim molta Brighde"

Gabhaim molta Brighde, Iníon í le hÉireann,
Iníon le gach tír í, molaiimís go léir í.
(I sing loudly the praise to Brighde, daughter not only of Éire
But of all countries of the World; lets praise her!)

Lóchrann geal na Laighneach, soils' ar feadh na tire,
Ceann ar óigheacht Éireann, ceann na mban ar mine.
(Leinster bright lamp, the flame that crosses the land,
Leader of the young women of Ireland, one of the best women who ever lived)

Tig an geimhreadh dian dubh, gearra lena géire,
Ach ar lá le Brighde, gar duinn Earrach Éireann.
(The hard dark winter comes, rough and sharp
But when the day of Brighde comes, the spring of Éire is not far away anymore)

I'm sorry, but what makes you say that? I was under the impression that Autosomal DNA could only link one with recent ancestors.

iodalach_draiodoir
27-10-10, 00:52
Hi, David,
Not at all. Some laboratories, namely FTDNA and 23andMe, make available your autosomal DNA's origins; 23andMe even says the regions in Europe where your european genes come from. Autosomal DNA is time-limited ony in finding relatives; it seems to me it is able to rescue only in a 5 or 6 generations distance, i.e. you will discover cousins sharing with you the same great-great-grandparents.
Moreover, talking demographically and historically, if your ancestors are in Scotland for more than 300 years surely you have saxon, norse and celtic roots.

Kveða!


I'm sorry, but what makes you say that? I was under the impression that Autosomal DNA could only link one with recent ancestors.

DavidCoutts
27-10-10, 01:52
Thanks, man. I was'nt aware that service was available. Who do you think is better for this kind of Autosomal DNA testing, 23AndMe or FTDNA?

iodalach_draiodoir
27-10-10, 14:36
Well I did both; 23andMe is more complete, but sometimes have some NP-hard troubles, which makes FTDNA more trustable (however, they have a much smaller database).
23andMe sometimes has great promotions, offering complete tests by USD 99.

callisto
08-11-10, 06:54
I would say I feel connected to Ancient Greece...

Mzungu mchagga
14-11-10, 12:35
Mainly Germanic with Slavic and Celtic intermixture. Haven't done a DNA Test yet, but as my ancestry comes from Saxony, Lusatia and Upper Rhineland, I guess it wouldn't tell me anything else.

Carlitos
14-11-10, 21:39
Maybe when someone gets the genetic test is because they suspected that the origin is another country or territory where you live, in my case I always knew it was not Iberian, was something I felt, but my DNA And the Canaanite was a surprise as Celtic my mitochondrial DNA, also was tired of hearing the current independence of northern Spain, always proclaiming Celtic as the argument is now disintegrating and I have it. Undoubtedly genetic testing helps to know you better.

Wilhelm
15-11-10, 05:07
Maybe when someone gets the genetic test is because they suspected that the origin is another country or territory where you live, in my case I always knew it was not Iberian, was something I felt, but my DNA And the Canaanite was a surprise as Celtic my mitochondrial DNA, also was tired of hearing the current independence of northern Spain, always proclaiming Celtic as the argument is now disintegrating and I have it. Undoubtedly genetic testing helps to know you better.
How do you know you don't have Iberian origins ? The y-dna and mtDNa are only two lines of your ancestry. They represent a very small picture of your whole ancestry.

Mzungu mchagga
15-11-10, 11:31
That's exactly my point of view! Even if it turned out my haplogroup is J1, that wouldn't make me a Near Eastener suddenly. I can tell from a look in the mirror and my cultural background that I'm absolutly not. It is only thisspecific gene picked that had it's origin somewhere in the Near East. The rest of my genes comes from a bunch of other places. The Y-DNA test wouldn't tell me where the majority of my genes come from. And this majority might also be just a very slight majority.
So from this current point a test would still be a waste of money for me. My only motivation would be the additional contribution to science. If it is still usefull.

Marianne
15-11-10, 16:41
That's exactly my point of view! Even if it turned out my haplogroup is J1, that wouldn't make me a Near Eastener suddenly. I can tell from a look in the mirror and my cultural background that I'm absolutly not. It is only thisspecific gene picked that had it's origin somewhere in the Near East. The rest of my genes comes from a bunch of other places.

I agree, we have millions of ancestors if we start counting from 6000BC or so, and our haplogroup is what only one of our ancestors was out of the millions we have. It is just an indication of which part of the world he came from, but more or less the ancestors of Europeans came from Asia... The haplogroup doesn't give you any clue about the "million - 1" ancestors you have.

LeBrok
15-11-10, 18:43
It doesn't stop on humans either, we have similar gens as our cousins primates, or the fish that came on the ground 350 million years ago. Heck, we even picked up some gens from bacterias and viruses few times.
I don't care what's my haplogroup, I don't mind living among mixed cultures. On other hand I love history and science, and I'd love tracing routes and movements of ancient tribes. For this we need to slap a label on people.

Carlitos
16-11-10, 00:31
How do you know you don't have Iberian origins ? The y-dna and mtDNa are only two lines of your ancestry. They represent a very small picture of your whole ancestry.

I understand what you mean. If the ancestor of my mother is in the Iberian Peninsula from the fourth century BC, may have used to survive Iberian haplogroup, for the same father as my genetic results in the tenth century or Xl my paternal ancestor was North Africa Middle East or Italy, what kind of results is given three choices?, do I have to choose the one that suits me or how this works?, if I were of Carthaginian origin was common to take wives Iberian , Hannibal Barca's own mother was Iberian, what puzzles me is that it appears Italy, perhaps descended from the Emperor himself Emiliano or Anibal Barca (delusions of grandeur), the question is: Are the genes that have mixed my two paternal and maternal lineages are in me the same way that my two lineages found by the test?

Wilhelm
16-11-10, 03:52
I understand what you mean. If the ancestor of my mother is in the Iberian Peninsula from the fourth century BC, may have used to survive Iberian haplogroup, for the same father as my genetic results in the tenth century or Xl my paternal ancestor was North Africa Middle East or Italy, what kind of results is given three choices?, do I have to choose the one that suits me or how this works?, if I were of Carthaginian origin was common to take wives Iberian , Hannibal Barca's own mother was Iberian, what puzzles me is that it appears Italy, perhaps descended from the Emperor himself Emiliano or Anibal Barca (delusions of grandeur), the question is: Are the genes that have mixed my two paternal and maternal lineages are in me the same way that my two lineages found by the test?
Yes, of course. But you don't inherit for example the y-dna of the father of your mother, or the mtDNA of the mother of your father,etc and they are obviously part of your ancestry.

RH NEG-I
20-11-10, 19:20
Well, I was adopted in the United states but researched my true family origins and discovered that I am a Mcdonell by name with ancestors from Inverness in the Scottish Northern highlands my HG is I-M170 and I am RH negative (if that is significant) I have never had my mitocondrial DNA tested. Being adopted, I never had a hard core identity association so I would say that is a work in progress. (; Could anyone suggest the best place to have some conclusive testing done at a reasonable price?

Carlitos
20-11-10, 23:01
Yes, of course. But you don't inherit for example the y-dna of the father of your mother, or the mtDNA of the mother of your father,etc and they are obviously part of your ancestry.

I understand. In tests they face two haplogroups, but there is much more behind.

St Delcambre
16-12-10, 08:36
Yes they can. DecodeMe have included reference populations around the world.

Yikes! It's like two thousand bucks! Is there anything similar that's a bit more affordable?

Regulus
16-12-10, 21:01
I don't have the funds to get myself tested. Although I am of Irish and Italian (Southern Italian and Sicilian - Syracuse) descent, I find the independent Greeks states and their ways the most appealing. I think that many of them struck a good balance between order and liberty. They were rough when they needed to be and eloquent and cultured when necessary. They respected the rule of law. I still am amazed at the number of states in Greece that were willing to stand and fight Xerxes' army and not offer submission.

I also like the manner of requiring citizens to be equipped and trained for a turn out.

Jackson
05-03-12, 02:28
I was always brought up with the attitude of my dad really, and we both identify most with the Anglo-Saxons - although i didn't really start investigating until a couple of years ago. Upon investigation most of my ancestry is from eastern England(south-east and north-east included), with a bit from Western England(Cheshire), Wales (Pembrokeshire), Ireland (Dublin) and lowland Scotland (Berwickshire), but weighted more towards south-east England.
DNA Wise my y-Haplogroup and surname support an Angle or Viking origin, and my mt-line (comes from Kent the furthest back) could be any nature of things, but given U5a1's weight towards eastern Europe and the higher frequencies in northern Germany and Norway, perhaps Anglo-Saxon is more likely.
Autosomally i seem to be very eastern for a British person, but within the range. The overall impression i get of my north European ancestry is that of being most closely related to English and Dutch. Add in to that a small amount (3% or 6%) of Middle-eastern ancestry, and it is quite an interesting scenario. It's interesting because i have always liked the Dutch people i have known, and there is a small Dutch contingent to my extended family (I think they are Frisian actually) through marriage. This is also interesting when you consider that they appear to be our primary genetic and linguistic link to the continent.


So yes it seems i identify most with the Anglo-Saxons (as a broad term), or with the people's surrounding the north Sea. However, to ignore my Celtic and Middle-Eastern ancestry would be completely unwarranted - My family have generally gone on holiday to the traditionally Celtic areas of Britain, and Ireland - and i very much like them, in particular Ireland. I guess i can't claim to my ancestors from Wales, Ireland and Scotland as being 100% Celtic, being that they are from probably the least traditionally Celtic areas of their respective countries, at least as far back as i have gone, but nevertheless i have a very fond connection with my second favourite group of ancestors. :]

I hope i live to see 2066...

I am also currently working on resolving what my Middle-Eastern ancestry actually is - Of course my first thought was Jewish, as it is by far the most likely given historic Jewish settlement in Western Europe. The trouble i am having with it (especially with more recent iterations of the Eurogenes project), is that the ratios of various components used don't match up with the unusual parts of my components. It seems to definitely be Middle-Eastern, but it is arguably looking less Near-eastern than i would expect. Of course Jewish is still one of my primary options, but i must explore a number of avenues or look for definitive evidence in the paper ancestry.

So yes i find it quite interesting that so far there hasn't been anything unexpected turn up - I knew there was something African or Middle-Eastern already, and i suspected the rest.

I saw someone mention phenotype earlier in the thread. It's not overly important to me, but i guess i fit quite well with my ancestry. Hair is medium-dark brown, was light blond until about 6/7 and then golden blond/brown until about 11 when i finally turned brown for good. My family and ancestors traditionally have brown-dark brown hair with a blond minority (generally a couple of generations back or more), my dad's side and myself have slight reddish or reddish-golden undertones to our hair. Eyes are blue or light-mixed(small green ring around the middle), pretty much all of my dad's side have had blue/light-mixed eyes, and the majority of my mum's side. I'm quite tall (6"1 at the moment, father is 6"4 and a half - i got the short genes :D) and me and my dad's side typically have heavy brow-ridges, deep set eyes, tall stature and a heavy build. My father's side also generally have a very heavy jaw and a broad-ish nose, but i didn't get either. My mum's side seem to have pretty much everything under the sun at some point, tall/short dark/fair slim/heavy.

I actually think i am a pretty good average of my family overall - tall but not overly tall, not exceptionally fair or dark, not exceptionally heavy or slim.

But anyway enough about that :].

I remember watching a program recently, an old program with Darcus Howe, i think it was called White Tribe - I agree with him that it is unfortunate that the English seem to be having an identity crisis - I think we should celebrate our heritage and culture in the way that many other countries do - but it is actually hard to define what English culture is. It's sad that often it seems we are either self-guilty and are anxious not to celebrate our identity - After all i think if i went to any other country, and the people were ashamed or afraid of celebrating their culture, i would find that more concerning than if they celebrated it aggressively.

I think a person needs an identity that they are willing to be proud of comfortable/secure about before they can respect the identity of others by allowing them to celebrate it :]. Some people are happy not to identify, but that is their choice, after all we humans are very tribal/group oriented creatures, and i find it ironic that people can be so into individuality that they join groups based around not being part of a group, or a trend. xD

I didn't intend this post to get philosophical, but it's past midnight.

Kind Regards,
Sam Jackson

Mihajlo
05-03-12, 09:02
I feel closer to my mother's family than to my father's, wich is flemish. Despite I was born in France and my native language is french, I always loved the serbian folkore, culture and history. Moreover I look like more to my mother than to my father.

So I can say that I feel more serbian than flemish.

Elizabeth H
22-03-12, 06:46
I'm an American of mostly Colonial American ancestry so I have English, Welsh, Scottish, French, Dutch, Belgian, German, Swiss, Slovakian (Czechoslovakian), ancestry. I know my English lines, on my mother's side, has ancestry and ties to various other European areas, from way back in the Middle Ages (Leon;Castile;Spain;Aragon;Aquitaine;France;Kiev;I taly;Norway...etc). My biggest unknown is my Czechoslovakian side, from two Great Grandparents who immigrated to the USA in the early 1900s, and I've always been told I must be part Mongolian (or "Hun". because they mixed with Slavs). So I did an admixture test with DNAPrint (AncestryByDNA 2.5) and my result was, with a margin of error ("confidence interval") of +/- 8%, 83% European and 17% Native American. My next test was DNA Tribes. I started out with that in 2006 with 13 STR markers and kept upgrading up to the 27 STR markers. I had a wide array of matches, from all over the world. Some of my top matches were Syria, Pakistan, Bahrain, Portugal, Spain, Sicily, Kathmandu, Uyghur, Brahmin from Orissa, Greece, Cypriot Greek, Mozambique, Oman, Brazil, Morocco, and in my last upade, when they added a Slovakian population "Saris, Slovakia" was in my top 20, but other matches include Croatia, Romania, Finland, Norway, Flemish, Ecuador, Colombia, and so on. Via email I was told my STR profile was consistent with 1/8 to 1/4 Native American ancestry. 17% would be 1/6. Later on, in Autumn 2009, I tested at 23andme. 23andme changed my results twice. First it was 100% European, changed in 2009 to Europe >99% and Africa<1%, then it was changed again to Europe 99%, Asian <1%, and African 1%. That is on the V2 platform. I haven't done the V3.

Elizabeth H
22-03-12, 07:11
Ah, I see can't edit to add more, so I 'll make an additional post. I sent my 23andme raw data file to Dr. McDonald back when 23andme said I was Europe>99% and Africa<1%. He said I 92% Orcadian (Okrney) and the rest from "somewhere-anywhere-in the Middle East". And he said I had .5% (half of one percent of African). I asked him about my Native American green square on chr 6 and he said it was .25% and likely noise. He put blue squares for African on my chr 3, 4, and 5.
He also told me I had a sliver of Middle Eastern on chr 8, but I couldn't see it, 8 is all red (European). So aside from the green and blue squares, everything is European, including my X-chromosome.
After I posted about this on the 23andme community forum, and other forums, 23andme changed my Ancestry Painting to include a bit more African, but on Chr 3 and 5, nothing on chr 4. And they added Asian and I went from zero Asian to some on chromosomes 4 and 8. No Asian on 6. Doesn't really match.

I asked 23andme via email why they changed my results, if it was just a change is interpretation of my "calls", or if the "calls" (A,C,T,G) were changed. They didn't answer my question. And my sample wasn't saved so it could NOT have been a re-run of my sample.

I've read on the forum that 23andme's margin of error is about 2% to 3%. And some have said the Native American can be under counted by about 25%.


I've sent my raw data to Eurogenes. And someone else volunteered to run my raw data file in the Dienekes calculators for me.
I've also joined Gedmatch.

sparkey
22-03-12, 18:05
I'm an American of mostly Colonial American ancestry so I have... Slovakian (Czechoslovakian), ancestry.

...My biggest unknown is my Czechoslovakian side, from two Great Grandparents who immigrated to the USA in the early 1900s...

I was about to ask, "Which one was the Slovakian colony?" :laughing:

But good luck with learning more about your ancestry, your journey reminds me somewhat of mine, although I admit that I've been lucky enough with my genealogical research that I haven't considered autosomal testing particularly relevant yet. I can already see specifically where in Europe certain parts of my ancestry came from, and note trends and the genetics of others from those areas. My personal Dodecad scores, for example, wouldn't tell me as much.

To answer the original question, my Y-DNA test told me the most, as I was debating another family researcher with my surname about the etymology of it. He claimed it was probably an Anglicized form of a Scottish Gaelic surname, but I contended that it was more likely an Anglicized form of a Swiss German surname. We took DNA tests, and my theory was confirmed. It was actually very cool to get a result so quickly.

Nonetheless, I don't identify particularly strongly with many Iron Age tribes. Most areas my family comes from are areas that followed the pattern of being P-Celtic at the beginning of the Classical Age, and West Germanic by the end of the Migration Period. Genetics have tended to show that remnants of both ended up significantly in those areas, so I figure that I'm descended from both, and don't "take a side" when reading about the history of those areas.

The main exceptions seem to be that I have significant ancestry from Southeast Wales and Cornwall, which were both P-Celtic until relatively late. And although they've certainly had their later influxes of people with Anglo-Saxon descent, genetics have tended to show that they're relatively contiguous with their associated ancient tribes: the Silures and the Dumnonii, respectively. Also, since my Welsh and Cornish sides are the only sides of my family to have settled in America after it became independent, they're the only sides that I think of mainly in terms of their history in Europe rather than their history in America, and there's a sense of immediateness. So I admit that I've tended to think of the Silures and Dumnonii as "my ancestors" when reading about them. (But I don't take it too seriously (http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=5499)!)

Riki
22-03-12, 18:34
Celtiberian Tribes.(Lusitani Tribes)
DNA test much needed.

Keegah
22-03-12, 21:32
On my mother's side I'm well-documented as being of English descent, most likely originally Anglo-Saxon. Researching my father's side has been a bit more troublesome.

I have a Lowland Scottish surname, but my father's side is documented as coming from Derry, Ireland. The most obvious conclusion to make here would be that my father's side immigrated to Ireland as Ulster Scots. The problem there lies with the fact that my father's side was and (with the exception of my father and grandfather) still is, staunchly Catholic. This was rare among Lowland Scots in general, but especially of Ulster Scots - who had to be Protestant in order to take part in the Ulster Plantation in the first place.

Add that to the fact that I now know my ancestor lived in what appears to have been an Irish Catholic enclave in Templemore, Derry, that he appears to have been following Irish naming traditions in naming his children, that we haven't found any DNA matches to other individuals bearing my surname in Scotland or England, that he married an Irish woman, that he established an Irish Catholic settlement in Southern Illinois, and finally that I've found a possible pre-anglicized surname, and at this point I'm convinced that my father's side is Irish, rather than Ulster Scottish. The fact that the bulk of my Y-chromosome haplogroup is found in Ireland also helps, though it is still found in Scotland and England to a lesser extent.

I would prefer that more research be done into I2a1b2-Isles, as there's precious little information available on it and very few candidates for SNP comparison. But for some irritating reason, it seems like Nordtvedt is the only one doing any real work on the haplogroup. That's fairly confusing to me, considering that the holders of I2a1b2 might have been the first settlers of the British Isles, before the Celts ever arrived. Genealogy is still an emerging science though, I'm sure more representatives of my haplogroup will come out of the woodwork as more and more people get their DNA tested.

As for which ancient ethnicity I identify with most, it would be the ancient Celts, which my research tends to support. I should probably also identify with the Anglo-Saxons and the Germanic tribes they left behind - on account of my mother's side - but the fact is, the unbroken Y-chromosomal line that traces back to Ireland on my father's side instills more of a sense of heritage in me. I don't share the Y-chromosome of my mother's father's DNA, so the English angle of it doesn't strike me as quite as personal. Nevertheless, I enjoy researching my genealogy on both sides of my family, and love learning about both cultures - not to mention all the rest that color human history, in Europe and beyond.

L.D.Brousse
23-03-12, 05:18
I think my Y DNA line belong to the Santone Tribe of SW France I will continue to think this until DNA updates show something different.

sparkey
23-03-12, 19:55
I think my Y DNA line belong to the Santone Tribe of SW France I will continue to think this until DNA updates show something different.

It would make sense. The Santones were not too far from where R1b-SRY2627 tends to be most frequent, and they seem more likely than a non-Gaulish source, like Franks or Romans.

Do you only identify with your Y-DNA line, though? Are there any other ancient tribes that you identify with? I mean, my Y line probably passed through some Gaulish tribe at one time (Helvetii or Raurici seem likely), but I don't mention it as something I identify with, because it's probably not a major part of my ancestry outside of my Y line, and I'm not certain about it.

L.D.Brousse
23-03-12, 22:01
Well sparky here are other names in my blood Schwarz Kuntz Thrash Snodgrass Gist Albin Coats Allen Butler Ryden cornu allenet

Snodgrass is my maternal Great Grandmothers name it is Celtic for smooth grass and Gist is my paternal Great Grandmothers name it is Welsh The Schwarz's are the newest they came in the 1870s rest have been here a long long time. Allen was my 5th Great Grandmothers maiden name she descended from a Caviler. I have not researched back on the other names yet like I have my Y line

sparkey
23-03-12, 23:02
Well sparky here are other names in my blood Schwarz Kuntz Thrash Snodgrass Gist Albin Coats Allen Butler Ryden cornu allenet

Snodgrass is my maternal Great Grandmothers name it is Celtic for smooth grass and Gist is my paternal Great Grandmothers name it is Welsh The Schwarz's are the newest they came in the 1870s rest have been here a long long time. Allen was my 5th Great Grandmothers maiden name she descended from a Caviler. I have not researched back on the other names yet like I have my Y line

Well, let's see... Relying on Maciamo's surname distribution topic (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26952-Distribution-maps-of-European-surnames-by-country) heavily, I find...

Schwarz: A very common German name, I assume you know where in Germany (Austria? Somewhere else?) they came from?

Kuntz: Typically Palatine. If they didn't come with the Schwarzes but instead came during the Colonial period, I would definitely suspect Palatine origins.

Thrash: Unclear. Could be a variant of English "Thrush" or an Anglicized form of Palatine German "Dresch."

Snodgrass: Actually Middle English, not "Celtic," but you're right that it means "smooth grass." Typically Scottish, from Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, or Lanarkshire.

Gist: Not Welsh. Probably from Old English "giest," meaning "guest," or someone who wasn't from around there. Clearly most common in Devon, which was a county that was represented a lot among the English colonists, especially the Cavaliers.

Albin: Could be from lots of places in Western Europe, it's a patronymic.

Coats: More commonly "Coates," it's English, most common around Yorkshire. It means "cottager."

Allen: Again a patronymic, but at least this one we can mostly narrow down to "probably British." Cavaliers tended to come from Southern England.

Butler: Obviously, it's from English, "butler." Could be from anywhere in Britain, although it's particularly uncommon in Wales and Cornwall.

Ryden: This one is curious, because it has possible Scandinavian origins, from "ryd," meaning "woodland clearing." Almost certainly from Lancashire if that side of your family is from Britain.

Cornu: This is the one that caught my eye and made me decide to do this analysis for you. It's a really interesting surname. It's definitely more common in France than in Britain, so you may want to investigate to see if this could be another Huguenot family. The root seems to be "corn" for "horn," and my only guess is that it might refer to the Breton region of Cornouaille, although the name peaks in frequency well East of there, at the border with Belgium. Maybe a Belgian can comment. The only possibility I see for a British origin is if it's a variant of "Curno," a common Cornish name meaning "Cornwall."

Allenet: You probably don't need me to tell you that this one is French. Uncommon everywhere, but occurs occasionally around Saintonge. Presumably Huguenot.

L.D.Brousse
23-03-12, 23:11
The Cornu's are from Taillebourg and the Allenet's are from the Saintongs area These 2 names are part of my Huguenot roots

I'm just a typical American who's roots have been here a good while

sparkey
23-03-12, 23:20
The Cornu's are from Taillebourg and the Allenet's are from the Saintongs area

As expected for the Allenets, although it's interesting, there aren't really many Cornus at all in Saintonge anymore.
I'm just a typical American who's roots have been here a good while

I think you've got some interesting patterns in your family history... More Huguenot ancestry that is typical, more Cavalier ancestry than is typical, less Puritan and Quaker ancestry than is typical... etc.

There are a lot of interesting regional variations in colonial American settlement, which affects and differentiates colonial descendants to this day. (And I have argued (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26413-The-American-Civil-War-as-a-continuation-of-a-lasting-British-division) even played a major part in conflicts like the Civil War.)

L.D.Brousse
23-03-12, 23:29
I had kin on both sides in the civil war My Y line came from Lincoln County TN. my third Great Grandfather fought with the 44th TN INF. they were at Shiloh. I have no clue if any of them were Quakers All Protestants except for the Schwarz's they are Catholic. My maternal Grandmother was a Butler the family still owns land since the 1860s on the trail of tears in Salem KY. my Great Aunt lives on it part of the original trail crosses our land with a few Indian burials on it. By the way Sparky Cavilers were just soldiers right that came early to protect the the settlements? Sorry the Allen is Alen. The French surnames in my line can be seen on the Marriage certificate I posted. I would think most of these people are R1b I need to get my Grandfather schwarz tested

zanipolo
23-03-12, 23:41
Well, let's see... Relying on Maciamo's surname distribution topic (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26952-Distribution-maps-of-European-surnames-by-country) heavily, I find...

Schwarz: A very common German name, I assume you know where in Germany (Austria? Somewhere else?) they came from?

Kuntz: Typically Palatine. If they didn't come with the Schwarzes but instead came during the Colonial period, I would definitely suspect Palatine origins.

Thrash: Unclear. Could be a variant of English "Thrush" or an Anglicized form of Palatine German "Dresch."

Snodgrass: Actually Middle English, not "Celtic," but you're right that it means "smooth grass." Typically Scottish, from Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, or Lanarkshire.

Gist: Not Welsh. Probably from Old English "giest," meaning "guest," or someone who wasn't from around there. Clearly most common in Devon, which was a county that was represented a lot among the English colonists, especially the Cavaliers.

Albin: Could be from lots of places in Western Europe, it's a patronymic.

Coats: More commonly "Coates," it's English, most common around Yorkshire. It means "cottager."

Allen: Again a patronymic, but at least this one we can mostly narrow down to "probably British." Cavaliers tended to come from Southern England.

Butler: Obviously, it's from English, "butler." Could be from anywhere in Britain, although it's particularly uncommon in Wales and Cornwall.

Ryden: This one is curious, because it has possible Scandinavian origins, from "ryd," meaning "woodland clearing." Almost certainly from Lancashire if that side of your family is from Britain.

Cornu: This is the one that caught my eye and made me decide to do this analysis for you. It's a really interesting surname. It's definitely more common in France than in Britain, so you may want to investigate to see if this could be another Huguenot family. The root seems to be "corn" for "horn," and my only guess is that it might refer to the Breton region of Cornouaille, although the name peaks in frequency well East of there, at the border with Belgium. Maybe a Belgian can comment. The only possibility I see for a British origin is if it's a variant of "Curno," a common Cornish name meaning "Cornwall."

Allenet: You probably don't need me to tell you that this one is French. Uncommon everywhere, but occurs occasionally around Saintonge. Presumably Huguenot.

I have a relative who's name is Dessmann from Friuli area ( search lineage and always in friuli for 300 years plus ) , what germanioc area would this name come from and does mann at the end mean similar to son of or something else

sparkey
24-03-12, 00:25
I had kin on both sides in the civil war My Y line came from Lincoln County TN. my third Great Grandfather fought with the 44th TN INF. they were at Shiloh.

OK, it's cool that you know so much, a lot of people in the US have no idea about their Civil War heritage. I also had ancestors on both sides, including a Confederate shot at Crampton's Gap, a Unionist shot at Antietam, and another Unionist shot (and captured) at Chickamauga.


I have no clue if any of them were Quakers All Protestants except for the Schwarz's they are Catholic.

Quakers are usually pretty identifiable in genealogy. They also tended to avoid wars at all costs... I know that an able-bodied Quaker I descend from who lived at the time intentionally did not serve.


By the way Sparky Cavilers were just soldiers right that came early to protect the the settlements?

Not exactly, they were Anglican Royalists originally, many of whom left England during the mid 1600s, when the Puritans gained influence, and when Oliver Cromwell was in power. They tended to be rather conservative and brought many servants, so often when we speak of "Cavalier migrations," we're speaking of both them, and their servants. (They also brought slaves, but slaves are obviously never referred to as "Cavaliers"). They mostly came to Virginia to earn money, along with the intention of escaping the Puritans. Their descendants largely dispersed westward and southward from Virginia over time, and tended to adopt the Baptist religion around the time of the Revolution, when Anglicanism became unpopular.

sparkey
24-03-12, 00:34
I have a relative who's name is Dessmann from Friuli area ( search lineage and always in friuli for 300 years plus ) , what germanioc area would this name come from and does mann at the end mean similar to son of or something else

I can't find anything on "Dessmann" offhand, it is an interesting surname. It looks like Americans with that surname are mainly of Italian origin rather than German origin, maybe relatives of your relative.

L.D.Brousse
24-03-12, 02:13
Not exactly, they were Anglican Royalists originally, many of whom left England during the mid 1600s, when the Puritans gained influence, and when Oliver Cromwell was in power. They tended to be rather conservative and brought many servants, so often when we speak of "Cavalier migrations," we're speaking of both them, and their servants. (They also brought slaves, but slaves are obviously never referred to as "Cavaliers"). They mostly came to Virginia to earn money, along with the intention of escaping the Puritans. Their descendants largely dispersed westward and southward from Virginia over time, and tended to adopt the Baptist religion around the time of the Revolution, when Anglicanism became unpopular.


That makes sense the Brousse's/ Bruce's started in Va then to NC My 5th Great Grandfather was given land in Lincoln County TN for service in the Revolution I know the Alen's also hailed from NC Both Families owned slaves. As much as I love to talk history I'm sorry for hijacking the thread

Boss
24-03-12, 11:47
Since the 2nd Byzantine Period of Crete, from 961 A.D, many Western European merchants settled in the island and later on the Venetian occupation came at 1204 and lasted for almost 500 years, so their influence was great :smile:

Cretans still have a different dialect which includes words that are clearly not Greek, influenced by Wester European languages. There are also many Roman Catholics in the island, more than the average of Greece. So you will find many Cretans feeling a "connection" with Frankish culture. That doesn't apply to the rest of Greeks though, except for those who live at the Ionian islands, because they were also under Venetian rule for quite a while.

This is a very old quote but:

I am Cretan and I don't really feel a connection with "Frankish" culture (whatever that is). I feel a connection with European culture as a whole. Growing up, two of my closest friends were Finnish (don't ask...) and one of them was American. Some of my other non-close friends (still my friends) were German, British and Albanian. That was because I grew up in a sort of touristy place in Crete where a lot of western Europeans settled permanently to raise their families.

With respect to the original article:

I identify with both the Ancient Greeks and the Eastern Romans (a.k.a. the Byzantines). I don't know what my actual genetic make up is like. I do want to know ofc.

Boss
24-03-12, 11:49
Dunno why I wrote article. I meant post. FML.

LeBrok
25-03-12, 00:54
This is a very old quote but:

I am Cretan and I don't really feel a connection with "Frankish" culture (whatever that is). I feel a connection with European culture as a whole. Growing up, two of my closest friends were Finnish (don't ask...) and one of them was American. Some of my other non-close friends (still my friends) were German, British and Albanian. That was because I grew up in a sort of touristy place in Crete where a lot of western Europeans settled permanently to raise their families.


That's a great example why in future Europe will be totally unified as one Nation/Union, with well mixed community. It's just a matter of time. You can scream, you can kick but you can't fight the nature. Well, actually you can exercise your free will and fight the nature, but you will loose regardless.
The nature I'm talking about is undeniable will of free people to mingle, mix and live wherever they want. With growing wealth of Europeans, with vanishing borders, with cooperative and friendly spirit among nations, the process will accelerate even further.

Welcome to Eupedia Boss.

PS. Now we have Maciamo boss, and the Boss. :D

Boss
25-03-12, 01:28
That's a great example why in future Europe will be totally unified as one Nation/Union, with well mixed community. It's just a matter of time. You can scream, you can kick but you can't fight the nature. Well, actually you can exercise your free will and fight the nature, but you will loose regardless.
The nature I'm talking about is undeniable will of free people to mingle, mix and live wherever they want. With growing wealth of Europeans, with vanishing borders, with cooperative and friendly spirit among nations, the process will accelerate even further.

Welcome to Eupedia Boss.

PS. Now we have Maciamo boss, and the Boss. :D

Thank you for the welcome (I wasn't greeted well by the admins as my thread on Nordicism was erased).

Also, I am not entirely certain if by "you" you mean myself. I am in favour of vanishing borders and not just on a European level.

I don't think it'll be some kind of a natural event though. It can very well be reversed (see early 20th century protectionism).

Jomid59
11-05-12, 23:46
Hello everyone, my first post.

I readily identify with being a neolithic hunter\gatherer.
I work well with wood, badly with metal, although I do find stonework laborious.
I enjoy the "energy" of the hunt and find gardening boring, but am happy to pick fruit from trees and bushes.
Like to be on the move, having more of an affinity for the sea rather than land.

Seems to be supported by my Y-DNA hg I1 (67 marker test + deep clade, terminal snp M253). Time and geographical emergence estimates for this group have changed a bit over the last few years, currently I am leaning towards the Doggerland as a place of emergence. Romantic possibly, but supports my being a boat oriented hunter gatherer.

Full mitochondrial sequence is H23. Behar et al puts emergence at 50BC geographically unknown. Most likely a female slave to a Roman family. (JK).

Awaiting FamilyFinder autosomal test results. If Gedmatch admixture H\G V farmer is not overwhelmingly Hunter Gather I will be most upset. :)

sparkey
12-05-12, 00:17
I readily identify with being a neolithic hunter\gatherer.

I didn't know you guys were still around, glad we got you DNA tested! :laughing:

Is there any actual tradition of being "on the move" in your family? Like perhaps traveller background?


Seems to be supported by my Y-DNA hg I1 (67 marker test + deep clade, terminal snp M253). Time and geographical emergence estimates for this group have changed a bit over the last few years, currently I am leaning towards the Doggerland as a place of emergence.

Any particular rationale? Doggerland is within range for, say, I2a1b2, but it seems too far west for I1, which has some of its older branches closer to Poland (although the whole thing seems to peak in diversity around Schleswig-Holstein).


Awaiting FamilyFinder autosomal test results. If Gedmatch admixture H\G V farmer is not overwhelmingly Hunter Gather I will be most upset. :)

Don't worry, I'm sure some Cro-Magnons will be happy to know about the interest you've taken in their culture, regardless.

Jomid59
12-05-12, 01:15
Hi Sparkey,

"On the move"
Paternal lineage - Scottish carpenter journeymen, 3 generations. Father in Merchant Navy and heavy goods vehicle driver.
Maternal Lineage - family rumours of gypsy heritage, some photos may support that, but my DNA work so far does not show it. However, fathers\husbands of maternal line were in trades that moved; journeyman baker, oilman, brush-maker (tramps).
Almost all of my mother's 6 brothers were in the navy, both merchant and royal.

Doggerland:
I wish we had more aDNA. If one looks at a geographic map of current M253, I see a concentric distribution with Doggerland at it's centre, bearing in mind if this were a boating culture, as seems likely with current evidence and it having been a wetland environment, then travel eastwards into the baltic would have been relatively safer than into the upper north sea, also maybe less populated in eastern scandanavia than elsewhere.

Cro-magnon
Thanks :laughing:, I am light olive skinned and tan (not burn) very quickly (not that common for Englishmen);
"suggesting Cro-Magnons could have been medium brown to tan-skinned"
But I suspect they would have made mince-meat out of me.

JFWR
05-07-12, 07:37
My ancestors hail exclusively from Celtic and Germanic lands excluding the Finns (who were unlikely to be of the Saami sort). My Y DNA is now widely considered to represent a Germanic background (I2A2A). I do not yet know my MTDNA, but I suspect it is a common Irish one, as my maternal ancestors have been Irish for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. However, as they're Black Irish (dark haired Irish) it may be different from other populations. The Spanish Armada story is widely discreditted, but the black Irish subset of Ireland seems quite distinct from the rest of the population.

I have self-identified as Celto-Germanic on my census form.

sparkey
09-07-12, 17:49
My Y DNA is now widely considered to represent a Germanic background (I2A2A).

I2a2a (ISOGG terminology) is typically, but not wholly, Germanic in the context of the British Isles, especially most of the Cont branches. But I recall you being either Roots or Isles-E. Roots probably has been introduced to the British Isles in different ways, and the Isles branches could be quite ancient there... almost surely pre-Anglo-Saxon for most of it, and maybe even pre-Celtic in the case of some.


I have self-identified as Celto-Germanic on my census form.

US census "ancestry" designation fascinates me. Personally, even though "Celto-Germanic" would be fairly accurate to describe my ancestry as well, it probably would have been counted (http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/ancestry/ancestry_q_by_DAC_2000.xls) as "996: Uncodeable entry". (Although it's funny that they do count "Aryan"--apparently there were 3,308 Aryans roming the US as of 2000.) As I've explained before (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26496-Tell-us-about-your-family-s-ethnic-background&p=394285&viewfull=1#post394285), my favored census designation is something like: Primary: American, Secondary: Welsh. Although still overly broad, it's nonetheless more specific than "Celto-Germanic," and would have actually gotten counted.

superhorn
10-07-12, 04:33
The fair hair and eyes of many Russians are also due to mixture with Finno-Ugrian peoples,
Finnic, not Ob-Ugrian, . The Ob Ugrians and Samoeydic people are racially mongoloid .
Myself, I'm an American of Russian/Ukrainian Jewish descent , and my maternal grandmother, the only
one of my grandparents I knew, was a native of the Ukrainian city of Chernivtsi , which was them part of the
Austro-Hungarian empire ,later a part of Romania, and later the Ukraine . She was born in the late 19th century, spoke Yiddish and German , and could get by in Ukrainian and Romanian . This region is caled Bukovina , and the people are a mix of Jews, Rssians,Ukrainians and Romanians .
I don't know exactly where in the Russo/Ukrainian world my paternal grandarents came from.
Chernivtsi is in the south-western Ukraine , near the Romanian border , and was called Czernowitz in German .
I don't look Semitic in the least and could easily pass for any Russian or Ukrainian, and have brown hair and green eyes . I have a wide ,round face and prominent cheekbones, and some people think I have a somewhat Asian appearance , with rather sllanted eyes . I could very possibly have some Turkic blood in me , and have long been interested in Turkic people. and have some familiarity with Turkish and Turkic languages .

JFWR
10-07-12, 08:39
I2a2a (ISOGG terminology) is typically, but not wholly, Germanic in the context of the British Isles, especially most of the Cont branches. But I recall you being either Roots or Isles-E. Roots probably has been introduced to the British Isles in different ways, and the Isles branches could be quite ancient there... almost surely pre-Anglo-Saxon for most of it, and maybe even pre-Celtic in the case of some.

Yes, if it turns out I am I2a2a-Isles it is likely that my paternal ancestry is Stonehengian (to use a silly term for pre-Celtic) if the conjectures of a native-Britain are proven right. Meanwhile, if I am roots, isn't it likely it's non-British? If I recall, I2A2A developed sometime around the LGM, with refugee populations in non-glaciated areas.

Also: As with you, I have tried to use surnames and other sources to give me a sense of what may have come to pass. My last name is Rowe and this surname is widely speculated to be of Norman extraction, which would actually mesh very well with the distribution of I2A2A historically. It's found in Scandinavia, in Germany, in Northwestern France, and in England.

Another possible root, however, would be that it is in fact native to Cornwall. That is where my immediate English paternal ancestors came from (as well as neighbouring Devon). However, in line with the first origin, one of the earliest Rowes on record was given a fief in Devon.


US census "ancestry" designation fascinates me. Personally, even though "Celto-Germanic" would be fairly accurate to describe my ancestry as well, it probably would have been counted (http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/ancestry/ancestry_q_by_DAC_2000.xls) as "996: Uncodeable entry". (Although it's funny that they do count "Aryan"--apparently there were 3,308 Aryans roming the US as of 2000.) As I've explained before (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26496-Tell-us-about-your-family-s-ethnic-background&p=394285&viewfull=1#post394285), my favored census designation is something like: Primary: American, Secondary: Welsh. Although still overly broad, it's nonetheless more specific than "Celto-Germanic," and would have actually gotten counted.

I honestly had no idea they wouldn't simply write down what one gave them as a minority population, unless it was an obvious spelling error or joke (e.g. Martian). If it was fruitless, well, so be it: It's not that big of a loss. Although amusingly, my mother actually -worked- for the census this last go around...Also, it was a bit of a purposeful jab at the generic "Caucasian" that the US Government still uses. I've not had an ancestor that I know of in the Caucasus for upwards of 30,000 years, if ever. I am certainly a Caucasoid (in a broad group of races), but besides that it has always urked me to label myself as something which isn't accurate for an ethnic classification.

zanipolo
10-07-12, 12:17
Not wanting to pay big money to do my admixture and not having a clue on how to use or which to use of the "K" calculators or weac, I have been relying on certain "professional" people in advising me on my HG
Since I am still getting SNP tests done ( now paid by others) , I was given basically this scenario , which changes slightly every month.

My line began, between North Ossettia and azerbajan, mostly likely from medes people, then arrived on the baltic sea in Ingrian lands, then in southern sweden or gotland and finally to the eastern alps. No dates are given

I was told 24% NE european, 11% celto-germanic and 5% North baltic
I presume North baltic refers to sweden and finland and south baltic to the south shores of the baltic sea.

some questions like, where is my caucasus %? is a mystery.

I have no issue at all on my HG type, I just want to know how accurate these figures are.

That is my only concern

sparkey
10-07-12, 18:10
Yes, if it turns out I am I2a2a-Isles it is likely that my paternal ancestry is Stonehengian (to use a silly term for pre-Celtic) if the conjectures of a native-Britain are proven right. Meanwhile, if I am roots, isn't it likely it's non-British? If I recall, I2A2A developed sometime around the LGM, with refugee populations in non-glaciated areas.

Well, every patriline is non-British if you go back far enough. I haven't really studied Roots closely, but I assume that it came to Britain in multiple migrations. I'm not confident with which was the most important.

It's not clear where I2a2a was during the LGM, but it is likely that its population shifted northward. See the black dots here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26944-The-Paleolithic-Remnants-a-map). (Rough estimates... I'm thinking of moving the I2a2a-Isles dots down a bit soon based on new data; I still need to figure that out.)


Also: As with you, I have tried to use surnames and other sources to give me a sense of what may have come to pass. My last name is Rowe and this surname is widely speculated to be of Norman extraction, which would actually mesh very well with the distribution of I2A2A historically. It's found in Scandinavia, in Germany, in Northwestern France, and in England.

It is not common in France (http://www.geopatronyme.com/cgi-bin/carte/nomcarte.cgi?nom=Rowe&submit=Valider&client=cdip), and the German name probably has a different derivation than the British names (possibly from Rowy, Pomerania?). The British derivations I'm more familiar with, because it's a common name in Cornwall, which is an area of focus for me. There seems to be two common derivations (http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=rowe). The Yorkshire/Lancashire derivation is probably the first Ancestry.com gives, a "topographic name for someone who lived by a hedgerow or in a row of houses built next to one another, from Middle English row (northern Middle English raw, from Old English raw)." The second is as a patronymic variation of Roul, Rollo, Rolf, Ralph, Rowland, etc. Most importantly, this includes the Cornish for Ralph (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Ekernow/names_r.htm) (most Cornish surnames are patronymic... Cornish naming patterns are quite different from English naming patterns, they're closer to Welsh naming patterns).


Another possible root, however, would be that it is in fact native to Cornwall. That is where my immediate English paternal ancestors came from (as well as neighbouring Devon). However, in line with the first origin, one of the earliest Rowes on record was given a fief in Devon.

...hence, I suspect your surname is just a patronymic for the Cornish for "Ralph." My best guess, given just your surname, is that you probably had some Cornish-speaking ancestor name Rowe, whose son took that as his surname.

Where in Cornwall, by the way? I can help a lot with Cornish genealogy.

JFWR
11-07-12, 05:00
Well, every patriline is non-British if you go back far enough. I haven't really studied Roots closely, but I assume that it came to Britain in multiple migrations. I'm not confident with which was the most important.

It would make sense, as either Celtic or Germanic migrations occured at multiple times in the history of Britain. Question, though: Do you have any good resources on the Roots sub-clade? I have literally only been able to find passing references to the name, rather than any detailed information. I'd be most obliged.


It's not clear where I2a2a was during the LGM, but it is likely that its population shifted northward. See the black dots here (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26944-The-Paleolithic-Remnants-a-map). (Rough estimates... I'm thinking of moving the I2a2a-Isles dots down a bit soon based on new data; I still need to figure that out.)

Fantastic map. I agree, though, that the Isles dots could be pushed down a bit if this is supposed to represent refugia. Only the furthest South of Britain and Ireland was ice-free during the LGM, if I recall properly.


It is not common in France (http://www.geopatronyme.com/cgi-bin/carte/nomcarte.cgi?nom=Rowe&submit=Valider&client=cdip), and the German name probably has a different derivation than the British names (possibly from Rowy, Pomerania?). The British derivations I'm more familiar with, because it's a common name in Cornwall, which is an area of focus for me. There seems to be two common derivations (http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=rowe). The Yorkshire/Lancashire derivation is probably the first Ancestry.com gives, a "topographic name for someone who lived by a hedgerow or in a row of houses built next to one another, from Middle English row (northern Middle English raw, from Old English raw)." The second is as a patronymic variation of Roul, Rollo, Rolf, Ralph, Rowland, etc. Most importantly, this includes the Cornish for Ralph (http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Ekernow/names_r.htm) (most Cornish surnames are patronymic... Cornish naming patterns are quite different from English naming patterns, they're closer to Welsh naming patterns).


I'm afraid you misunderstood me a bit. I had meant that I2a2a is in these other countries which, in association with one derivation of Rowe, makes sense. If Rowe is Norman, it makes sense that Rowe should be an I2a2a family. Not that the name remains in Germany, France, et cetera, which is highly unlikely in a direct connection. Very sorry for the confusion.

As for the name (and it is great that you know so much about Rowe! Thanks!) and its Cornish origins: That is one highly favoured by certain scholars of the name. I myself am on the fence about whether or not it is really Cornish historically, rather than Cornish by adoption (hundreds of years ago!). There is no doubt the Rowes are in Cornwall very early, but depending on the history of how they came to be in Cornwall, it could be. Your references to the potential patronymic names, for instance, are all names of non-Cornish derivation.

As for hedgerow, that's quite possibly one, too. I have never been able to get a definitive link to anything with that, though, and as it comes from Yorkshire and Lancastershire, it may represent a separate name from my branch (which is firmly Cornish). Rowe might be two names in actuality. It's hard to tell.

It also makes sense, as you said, that Cornish and Welsh naming conventions should be similar. Cornish and Welsh culture is, after all, based on a strong backing of the Britons that were pushed to the fringes of England with the coming of the Anglo-Saxons. The Cornish and Welsh languages are very similar too, aren't they? Although you Welshmen sure love your odd romanization...(I remember being in Wales and marvelling at the signage in Welsh that made absolutely no sense in its romanization).


...hence, I suspect your surname is just a patronymic for the Cornish for "Ralph." My best guess, given just your surname, is that you probably had some Cornish-speaking ancestor name Rowe, whose son took that as his surname.

I think it is highly likely, yes. Although if the ancestor that some Rowes give as one of the earliest examples of Rowe in England (Edevard de Rowe) it would have been a surname already. I favour the idea that it is patronymic, though, as with you. It makes a great deal of sense.


Where in Cornwall, by the way? I can help a lot with Cornish genealogy.

You're the most helpful guy around, my good man. Thank you very much. I really appreciate this insight. Truly.

James Rowe, 1804, parish of Breage, son of William and Mary Rowe. (Amusing, as I'm also James, son of William). That is the earliest my father went down to in his genealogy. However, I thought I had found someone a bit further down one time, but I cannot recall the information or where I might have.

sparkey
11-07-12, 18:09
It would make sense, as either Celtic or Germanic migrations occured at multiple times in the history of Britain. Question, though: Do you have any good resources on the Roots sub-clade? I have literally only been able to find passing references to the name, rather than any detailed information. I'd be most obliged.

It may be the largest I2 subclade that hasn't been studied with much depth, at least, as far as I'm aware. It's widely and thinly spread, so I suppose there's a lack of interest, because it's difficult to tie it to any one historical or archaeological migration.


Fantastic map. I agree, though, that the Isles dots could be pushed down a bit if this is supposed to represent refugia. Only the furthest South of Britain and Ireland was ice-free during the LGM, if I recall properly.

To be clear, it's supposed to represent the situation close to the beginning of the Neolithic, rather than refugia at the LGM about 10,000 years earlier. You can imagine the ancestors of the dots on that map being farther south across the map if we extrapolate back another 10,000 years.


As for the name (and it is great that you know so much about Rowe! Thanks!) and its Cornish origins: That is one highly favoured by certain scholars of the name. I myself am on the fence about whether or not it is really Cornish historically, rather than Cornish by adoption (hundreds of years ago!). There is no doubt the Rowes are in Cornwall very early, but depending on the history of how they came to be in Cornwall, it could be. Your references to the potential patronymic names, for instance, are all names of non-Cornish derivation.

Well, true, but at the adoption of surnames, Rowe would have been a fairly common given name in Cornwall, even though it is not anciently Cornish. Truly ancient Cornish names were out of style at the adoption of surnames, and ancient Cornish names only really pop up in the Tre- surnames, which tend to come from place names that were named after even more ancient people.

I'm not saying, though, that your Rowe name couldn't derive from something more interesting, like from the name of an ancient landed family. But you'll need to reach back pretty far to prove that... maybe using a Herald's visitation. Don't get your hopes too high, though... of the many surnames I've researched for myself and my wife in Cornwall, I've only found 2 recorded in any visitations. One of those was clearly derived from a manorial name to begin with, and the other was obviously Norman to begin with.


It also makes sense, as you said, that Cornish and Welsh naming conventions should be similar. Cornish and Welsh culture is, after all, based on a strong backing of the Britons that were pushed to the fringes of England with the coming of the Anglo-Saxons. The Cornish and Welsh languages are very similar too, aren't they? Although you Welshmen sure love your odd romanization...(I remember being in Wales and marvelling at the signage in Welsh that made absolutely no sense in its romanization).

Cornish and Welsh are in the same language family, the Brythonic languages. The phonology is a bit different, though... most English speakers find Cornish easier to pronounce, because it lacks the Welsh "ll" sound, amongst other things.


James Rowe, 1804, parish of Breage, son of William and Mary Rowe. (Amusing, as I'm also James, son of William). That is the earliest my father went down to in his genealogy. However, I thought I had found someone a bit further down one time, but I cannot recall the information or where I might have.

Breage, great. I have ancestors from three different places in Cornwall, one of those places being in Kerrier around the Lizard peninsula and a bit north of it. Some of those ancestors lived not too far from Breage... I think the closest I've found is Cury.

It was quick to find a baptism record (http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1590226) for your James, a marriage record (http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=464543) for your William and Mary, and another family researcher (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=andrewpike256&id=P192) (whose tree looks to have some inaccuracies--be very skeptical).

JFWR
11-07-12, 18:23
It may be the largest I2 subclade that hasn't been studied with much depth, at least, as far as I'm aware. It's widely and thinly spread, so I suppose there's a lack of interest, because it's difficult to tie it to any one historical or archaeological migration.

I suppose it really only takes a few fathers, dispersed throughout many populations, to maintain the haplogroup through succesfully siring sons, while their neighbours might have more advanced mutations down the line.


To be clear, it's supposed to represent the situation close to the beginning of the Neolithic, rather than refugia at the LGM about 10,000 years earlier. You can imagine the ancestors of the dots on that map being farther south across the map if we extrapolate back another 10,000 years.

That makes much more sense. Do you have any maps of the glaciers at that time? I was under the impression the ice was fairly thick and near at that point. Wasn't the Black Sea still dry?

[QUOTE]Well, true, but at the adoption of surnames, Rowe would have been a fairly common given name in Cornwall, even though it is not anciently Cornish. Truly ancient Cornish names were out of style at the adoption of surnames, and ancient Cornish names only really pop up in the Tre- surnames, which tend to come from place names that were named after even more ancient people.

That is quite possible, yes. Though there was a 17th century Cornish scholar that seemed to have had a strong sense for Cornish versions of common names. He suggested Kerew would have been the Cornish name for Rowe. I forgot his name. Perhaps you know it? I'll do a search tonight.


I'm not saying, though, that your Rowe name couldn't derive from something more interesting, like from the name of an ancient landed family. But you'll need to reach back pretty far to prove that... maybe using a Herald's visitation. Don't get your hopes too high, though... of the many surnames I've researched for myself and my wife in Cornwall, I've only found 2 recorded in any visitations. One of those was clearly derived from a manorial name to begin with, and the other was obviously Norman to begin with.


It would probablyb e very, very, very difficult to get past the 16th century. My Cornish side were tin miners. Though we know from history that noble families can very disastrously fall from grace (as most noble families have), I highly doubt that I could find a great deal of evidence of this fall from an actual ancestor. I know, for instance, that I'm not related to Nicholas Rowe, the poet laureate of England, much to my father's chagrin.

How might a herald's visitation work though to find something?



Cornish and Welsh are in the same language family, the Brythonic languages. The phonology is a bit different, though... most English speakers find Cornish easier to pronounce, because it lacks the Welsh "ll" sound, amongst other things.


Yep. I've heard that.



Breage, great. I have ancestors from three different places in Cornwall, one of those places being in Kerrier around the Lizard peninsula and a bit north of it. Some of those ancestors lived not too far from Breage... I think the closest I've found is Cury.

It would have been quite funny if our ancestors had spoken with one another at sometimes.


It was quick to find a baptism record (http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1590226) for your James, a marriage record (http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=464543) for your William and Mary, and another family researcher (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=andrewpike256&id=P192) (whose tree looks to have some inaccuracies--be very skeptical).

I will give great attention tot his tonight. My father's genealogy has the marriage record listed, too. He does not, however, have the listing of William Rowe as being born in 1776, or any information on that James' parents. I'll have to check myself.

Thanks very much for this.

sparkey
11-07-12, 20:38
That makes much more sense. Do you have any maps of the glaciers at that time? I was under the impression the ice was fairly thick and near at that point. Wasn't the Black Sea still dry?

At the LGM or in 4000 BCE? I'm actually not as familiar with the glaciation of either time period as I probably should be.


That is quite possible, yes. Though there was a 17th century Cornish scholar that seemed to have had a strong sense for Cornish versions of common names. He suggested Kerew would have been the Cornish name for Rowe. I forgot his name. Perhaps you know it? I'll do a search tonight.

Google tells me that it was William Rowe who suggested it. He translated some of the Bible into Cornish in the 17th century. I'm not sure why he would have thought "Kerew" was Cornish for "Rowe," they seem unrelated to me.


It would probablyb e very, very, very difficult to get past the 16th century. My Cornish side were tin miners. Though we know from history that noble families can very disastrously fall from grace (as most noble families have), I highly doubt that I could find a great deal of evidence of this fall from an actual ancestor. I know, for instance, that I'm not related to Nicholas Rowe, the poet laureate of England, much to my father's chagrin.

Ah, tin miners, so you've been a Cousin Jack all along. Did your ancestors come to America directly from Cornwall as a result of the collapse in the mining economy in the 1800s? There are several heritage societies in the US founded mainly by people of that extraction. The closest to New York is the Cornish Heritage Society East (http://cornishcrier.org/). I'm a member of the California Cornish Cousins (http://www.califcornishcousins.org/) myself.

Sometimes even tin miners had interesting relations, though. One of my tin mining ancestors knew John Opie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Opie) personally, before he rose to fame.


How might a herald's visitation work though to find something?

Just look through it (http://books.google.com/books?id=t0U7AQAAIAAJ). Use the index. Google also lets you do a text search. I found some of my ancestors on page 289, and some of my wife's ancestors on page 576. I don't see any pages dedicated to any Rowes, however.

Goga
11-07-12, 21:38
Akkadians, Assyrians and other Semites called my ancestors Umman Manda. Zaluti was was one of their well known leaders. I feel me related to these folks!

This is what I got from wikipedia:


"Umman Manda (Akkadian for host of Manda) is a term used in the early second and first millennia BC for a poorly known people in ancient near east whom by some scholars are identified as to be of Indo-European origin. The homeland of Ummanda seems to be somewhere from Central Anatolia to north or northeastern Babylonia in what later came to be known as Mitanni, Mannae and Media, respectively. Zaluti, a leader of Ummanda Manda is mentioned, whose name seems to have an Indo-Iranian etymology. He is even suggested to be identified with Salitis the founder of the Hyksos, the Fifteenth dynasty of Egypt.

The principal literary source is the so-called Cuthaean Legend of Naram-Sin, a composition that deals with the third-millennium king of Agade (Akkad) Naram-Sin and his struggles against the Umman-manda. As a literary topos, the Umman-manda represent a socio-cultural phenomenon with a strong theological basis: The Umman-manda are created by the gods and called forth from their homeland on the northeastern frontier of Mesopotamia by the chief god, be it Enlil, Marduk, or Aššur, for some particular work of destruction; since this destruction is divinely ordained, human beings are powerless to stop it, and in fact are enjoined against interfering; when the destruction is completed, the gods themselves will destroy the Umman-manda. In the literary topos, the Umman-manda is the enemy of civilization. The question of who the original Umman-manda were remains a mystery. [1]

In the first millennium BC, the term denoted Cimmerians and/or Medes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umman_Manda

JFWR
12-07-12, 03:51
At the LGM or in 4000 BCE? I'm actually not as familiar with the glaciation of either time period as I probably should be.


At 4000 BC. I know it was not nearly as bad as the LGM, but I was under the impression that one could still speak of the Ice Age in Europe at the time.


Google tells me that it was William Rowe who suggested it. He translated some of the Bible into Cornish in the 17th century. I'm not sure why he would have thought "Kerew" was Cornish for "Rowe," they seem unrelated to me.

Here's a long post on a genealogy forum that explains some thoughts on Rowe, including the reason for Kerew:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ROWE/2001-08/0998536051


Ah, tin miners, so you've been a Cousin Jack all along. Did your ancestors come to America directly from Cornwall as a result of the collapse in the mining economy in the 1800s? There are several heritage societies in the US founded mainly by people of that extraction. The closest to New York is the Cornish Heritage Society East (http://cornishcrier.org/). I'm a member of the California Cornish Cousins (http://www.califcornishcousins.org/) myself.

Ha! I never knew of the Cornish Heritage society! I will definitely contact them.

But yes, they came in the 19th century directly from Cornwall. My Rowes, specifically, settled in Illinois (from whence my father comes). THey seemed to have quit mining pretty early on in Illinois, though, as my father's father was a brick layer who died from inhalation of brick dust. I think my great grandfather on my father's line still was a miner, though. I cannot be sure.

But yep, a Cousin Jack here.


Sometimes even tin miners had interesting relations, though. One of my tin mining ancestors knew John Opie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Opie) personally, before he rose to fame.

Wow!


Just look through it (http://books.google.com/books?id=t0U7AQAAIAAJ). Use the index. Google also lets you do a text search. I found some of my ancestors on page 289, and some of my wife's ancestors on page 576. I don't see any pages dedicated to any Rowes, however.

Thank you very much. I found 10 results for Rowe already. The first from 1543. I have no idea if I am directly related to him, though.

JFWR
12-07-12, 03:52
Akkadians, Assyrians and other Semites called my ancestors Umman Manda. Zaluti was was one of their well known leaders. I feel me related to these folks!

This is what I got from wikipedia:

Do you know how to ride a chariot? You've got the blood, so get going! They were the chariot masters of the ancient world.

Goga
12-07-12, 16:44
Do you know how to ride a chariot? You've got the blood, so get going! They were the chariot masters of the ancient world.
I hate horses. But I like fast cars and driving long distances with very high speed. But I think that's because I'm just young, wild and crazy.

Astyages was the last Median (Median Empire) king of Umman-Manda folks.

Goga
12-07-12, 16:57
Other known king of Umman Manda folks was a Cimmerian called Teushpa. According to me Mannaens (from the Umman Manda homeland) were the first true founding fathers of Kurdish race (modern Kurdish ethnicity)!

"This time the Cimmerians seem to have more control over the province of Mannae (Northeast Kurdistan).The man to lead the Cimmerians was known by the Assyrians as King Teushpa of the Umman Manda. He would lead the Cimmerian forces into battle against King Esarhaddon. This term Umman Manda must be addressed before we go on. Umman Manda is not only addressed to the Cimmerians by the Assyrian's, the Assyrians also apply this term to the Sakae (Scythians) and the Guti. The dialects of Umman Manda can possible mean People of Manasseh Umman means people and Manda means Manasseh."

http://britam.org/CamReaAssyria.html

sparkey
12-07-12, 17:31
At 4000 BC. I know it was not nearly as bad as the LGM, but I was under the impression that one could still speak of the Ice Age in Europe at the time.

Well, the Orkneys had permanent settlements by 3500 BC, so I don't think that the glaciation was so severe in 4000 BC that we can't talk about descent from Northern Britons of the time. Northern Scandinavia, of course, is a different story.


But yes, they came in the 19th century directly from Cornwall. My Rowes, specifically, settled in Illinois (from whence my father comes). THey seemed to have quit mining pretty early on in Illinois, though, as my father's father was a brick layer who died from inhalation of brick dust. I think my great grandfather on my father's line still was a miner, though. I cannot be sure.

But yep, a Cousin Jack here.

That's the Cousin Jack migration, no doubt... from Cornwall to the Upper Mississippi in the 1800s due to the decline in the mining economy back in Cornwall. My 3 Cornish families migrated like:

Family 1: From St Agnes to Lafayette County, WI, and on to Franklin County, IA
Family 2: From Constantine & the Lizard peninsula to Jo Daviess County, IL, then to Lafayette County, WI, and on to Franklin County, IA
Family 3: From Landulph to Jo Daviess County, IL, and on to Franklin County, IA

Only Family 1 were miners in my case, although Family 3, who were farmers by background, also tried their luck in the gold fields of California for a bit (unsuccessfully). The mining decline in Cornwall affected everyone living there.

JFWR
13-07-12, 03:19
I hate horses. But I like fast cars and driving long distances with very high speed. But I think that's because I'm just young, wild and crazy.

Astyages was the last Median (Median Empire) king of Umman-Manda folks.

You can't shoot a bow from a car. You're betraying your ancestors... :( (I kid, I kid).

JFWR
13-07-12, 03:29
Well, the Orkneys had permanent settlements by 3500 BC, so I don't think that the glaciation was so severe in 4000 BC that we can't talk about descent from Northern Britons of the time. Northern Scandinavia, of course, is a different story.

That's very true. 4000 BC is a bit late to be speaking of massive ice sheets still close to NW Europe. That might have a lot to do with currents and weather systems, too.


That's the Cousin Jack migration, no doubt... from Cornwall to the Upper Mississippi in the 1800s due to the decline in the mining economy back in Cornwall. My 3 Cornish families migrated like:

Family 1: From St Agnes to Lafayette County, WI, and on to Franklin County, IA
Family 2: From Constantine & the Lizard peninsula to Jo Daviess County, IL, then to Lafayette County, WI, and on to Franklin County, IA
Family 3: From Landulph to Jo Daviess County, IL, and on to Franklin County, IA

My family specifically went to Ottawa, Illinois (which is in LaSalle). So almost neighbours (well, not so much, but still) for your third branch.

It's great that we come from similar backgrounds. Not too many folks I know share this! Thanks for all your information on this, too. It's a fascinating story.


Only Family 1 were miners in my case, although Family 3, who were farmers by background, also tried their luck in the gold fields of California for a bit (unsuccessfully). The mining decline in Cornwall affected everyone living there.

Mining is a really tough job. As soon ast he mine becomes unprofitable, jobs just...fall apart. No wonder they left their homes behind.

It's a rough, rough time being a miner. Even today.

LeBrok
13-07-12, 10:55
Actually 4000BC falls into Holocene Maximum. It means it was warmest interglacial times, also warmer than today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum

dg13
13-07-12, 16:05
Hello to all. I am able to trace my ancestry back through my mother to Edward III of England. (George Washington is my cousin, believe it or not). My father's family was 100% German! ...Or, so I thought. I now find the I am J1c* (and possibly part of a new J1c4). I am still German but how did my ancestors get there? I trace them back to 1614 in Baden, Germany. My mtDNA is T. Being new to this any thoughts would be appreciated.

JFWR
13-07-12, 16:24
Actually 4000BC falls into Holocene Maximum. It means it was warmest interglacial times, also warmer than today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum

Wow. I was not aware of that. I knew of the Medieval Warm period, but not this.

Thanks.

JFWR
13-07-12, 16:29
Hello to all. I am able to trace my ancestry back through my mother to Edward III of England. (George Washington is my cousin, believe it or not). My father's family was 100% German! ...Or, so I thought. I now find the I am J1c* (and possibly part of a new J1c4). I am still German but how did my ancestors get there? I trace them back to 1614 in Baden, Germany. My mtDNA is T. Being new to this any thoughts would be appreciated.

It means you have ancestors that were Arabs or East Africans possibly. I have no idea how they ended up in Germany.

sparkey
13-07-12, 17:52
It's great that we come from similar backgrounds. Not too many folks I know share this!

True, there are only a couple of places in the US (Mineral Point, WI and Grass Valley, CA) that have their primary cultural influence from the 1800s Cornish migrations.

Thanks to Julius Vogel, though, the same Cornish migrations had a tremendous impact on New Zealand. The common popularity of rugby in Cornwall and New Zealand probably isn't a coincidence.

JFWR
14-07-12, 03:07
True, there are only a couple of places in the US (Mineral Point, WI and Grass Valley, CA) that have their primary cultural influence from the 1800s Cornish migrations.

Thanks to Julius Vogel, though, the same Cornish migrations had a tremendous impact on New Zealand. The common popularity of rugby in Cornwall and New Zealand probably isn't a coincidence.


I'll have to talk to my kiwi friends and ask them if they know any people with Cornish ancestry, then.

Kosta
23-07-12, 07:53
Hi, everyone. I'm new here—I just registered not even a minute ago.

I myself identify most with the R(h)omanians of the Eastern Roman, "Byzantine" Empire. I'm half Greek and to break it down further, I'm a quarter Euboean and a quarter Peloponnesian. Personally, I'd love to go so far as to call myself "Ρωμαίος," but my people would laugh at me. I'm also 3/8th's Irish-Scots (Irish immigrants to Scotland, not to be confused with the Scotch-Irish) and 1/8th Bohemian. While my plastic-paddy Father (God love him) goes on about Sinn Fein and the IRA, I myself embrace my Ulsterite and British heritage. I currently reside in the United States (and always have), but am on my way to dual citizenship with Greece (money is tight for me right now and citizenship costs $1200) and getting both British and Irish citizenship

Now, the reason I joined here was because I'd like to ask for some help. Unfortunately, nearly all of my family has either lost all documentation or has eschewed it in favour of assimilation. I only have a slightest idea of my Euboean family's roots because my family didn't leave Greece all that long ago, and my Mother kept everything my Grandmother brought over. But the rest, well, all my paternal Grandmother can say is that "we're from a town just outside Belfast" but the family eventually settled in Paisley and Johnstone and that her father was in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. I'd like to have a DNA test done since I'm absolutely dying to be able to look upon my family tree with pride. A friend of mine just got his results back from Ancestry.com's autosomal test, but it didn't seem very helpful—it only said "you're 88% British Islander, 7% Finno-Ugric, and 5% undetermined." If they were to tell me "You're 50% Aegean Islander, 37.5% British Islander, and 12.5% Central European," they might as well have told me "congrats, mate, you're White." I could be descended from Venetians, Albanians, Norse raiders, Norman settlers, or Sudetenland Germans, and I'd never know! So this brings me to another, incredibly wise friend's advice. I need to find and take a mitochondrial DNA test and a Y-chromosomal test (the latter with as many STR markers involved as possible to get a more precise result) to find out my maternal and paternal lineages. Does anyone have any recommendations on where I could find said tests?

JFWR
23-07-12, 09:41
Hi, everyone. I'm new here—I just registered not even a minute ago.

I myself identify most with the R(h)omanians of the Eastern Roman, "Byzantine" Empire. I'm half Greek and to break it down further, I'm a quarter Euboean and a quarter Peloponnesian. Personally, I'd love to go so far as to call myself "Ρωμαίος," but my people would laugh at me. I'm also 3/8th's Irish-Scots (Irish immigrants to Scotland, not to be confused with the Scotch-Irish) and 1/8th Bohemian. While my plastic-paddy Father (God love him) goes on about Sinn Fein and the IRA, I myself embrace my Ulsterite and British heritage. I currently reside in the United States (and always have), but am on my way to dual citizenship with Greece (money is tight for me right now and citizenship costs $1200) and getting both British and Irish citizenship

Now, the reason I joined here was because I'd like to ask for some help. Unfortunately, nearly all of my family has either lost all documentation or has eschewed it in favour of assimilation. I only have a slightest idea of my Euboean family's roots because my family didn't leave Greece all that long ago, and my Mother kept everything my Grandmother brought over. But the rest, well, all my paternal Grandmother can say is that "we're from a town just outside Belfast" but the family eventually settled in Paisley and Johnstone and that her father was in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. I'd like to have a DNA test done since I'm absolutely dying to be able to look upon my family tree with pride. A friend of mine just got his results back from Ancestry.com's autosomal test, but it didn't seem very helpful—it only said "you're 88% British Islander, 7% Finno-Ugric, and 5% undetermined." If they were to tell me "You're 50% Aegean Islander, 37.5% British Islander, and 12.5% Central European," they might as well have told me "congrats, mate, you're White." I could be descended from Venetians, Albanians, Norse raiders, Norman settlers, or Sudetenland Germans, and I'd never know! So this brings me to another, incredibly wise friend's advice. I need to find and take a mitochondrial DNA test and a Y-chromosomal test (the latter with as many STR markers involved as possible to get a more precise result) to find out my maternal and paternal lineages. Does anyone have any recommendations on where I could find said tests?

www.ftdna.com (http://www.ftdna.com)

You won't know for sure where you come from these tests, though. Genetic tests do not match very well with individual populations. You will get a broad, historically basis for your ancestry, though.

Take, for instance, my Y-DNA haplogroup: i2a2a. I know that my ancestors have been here in Europe for 30,000 years on my father's side, and that it is probable that my Y-DNA is associated with Germanic cultural movements in general. But if I did not know my personal history, I'd not know anything about my actual ancestry in terms of my family's actual migratory journeys.

Also, it wouldn't be Romanian, it would be Roman.

Kosta
23-07-12, 18:12
You won't know for sure where you come from these tests, though. Genetic tests do not match very well with individual populations. You will get a broad, historically basis for your ancestry, though.

Take, for instance, my Y-DNA haplogroup: i2a2a. I know that my ancestors have been here in Europe for 30,000 years on my father's side, and that it is probable that my Y-DNA is associated with Germanic cultural movements in general. But if I did not know my personal history, I'd not know anything about my actual ancestry in terms of my family's actual migratory journeys.

Also, it wouldn't be Romanian, it would be Roman.

Well, thank you. I definitely will be looking into it.

Medieval Greek used the word Ῥωμανία" to refer to the Empire (Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων/Imperium Romanum), so you'll see Rhomanian and Roman used to refer to denizens of the Empire. I suppose the superfluous "h" is thrown in to not confuse the people of the Byzantine Empire to the pre-Theodosian-division Roman Empire.

Yetos
23-07-12, 23:27
Well, thank you. I definitely will be looking into it.

Medieval Greek used the word Ῥωμανία" to refer to the Empire (Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων/Imperium Romanum), so you'll see Rhomanian and Roman used to refer to denizens of the Empire. I suppose the superfluous "h" is thrown in to not confuse the people of the Byzantine Empire to the pre-Theodosian-division Roman Empire.



That is correct, but happened to provide some Imperium targets

1 ) was peace inside so all were Romans no matter the language
until very late emperrors use titles in Latin and at late times used Greek cause late Byzantine was based mainly in areas were Greek population existed
Epirus Thrace Peloponese Pontus Smyrna Crimea etc

2 ) the target of one religion,
that target made all Greeks as persona non grata, Byzantine set camp of extermination of older religions mainly Greek polytheism,
so Greeks divided in 2 the ρωμιοι (romans) and the pagan Greek,
if you read church books especially Basileios the Great he's anti-Greek mania is big against every Greek culture, from philosophy to letters, to architecture, that is why Byzantine could not developed
the word Ελληνες was just like say I am jew to Nazi at WW2,

so Greeks change name to ρωμιοι Romioi cause that term satisfy both the above,
if you said Romios then you declare faith to Empire and acceptance to the clerics of christianity, no matter what your inner religion was.
that continued also in Ottoman empire were Turks recogn the non Muslim Greek population as Rum while name different other minorities like Armenians Arabs etc and the ones who allied Venetians and Genovese as Yunan.
the termination γραικος is an ancient termination that travel to Italy at Con/polis fall and return at 1780 and after, mainly through Eptanese and south Italy were rebels were hidden (the return from Italy Spain France and rest of Europe.


The termination Ρωμιος mainly describes 3 certain areas mainly Romylia (thrace) Rumeli (central Greece) Rumlar (Pontic mountains)

NickP
23-07-12, 23:35
I think people sometimes have a tendency of associating and attaching themselves too much to these ancient tribes, as if that's all that matters in people today. They tend to be especially those around the Classical era (hence some are almost semi-legendary), but Europe is a different place in a way today, as populations have moved a good bit, and others have entered and made their contributions. Plus, one shouldn't forget the older Neolithic and Paleolithic peoples as well.

I find some places like igenea to be kind of silly in attaching the name of some ancient tribe to a particular haplogroup or people, but it's what attracts people to the services because I guess they like hearing that they came from "Vikings" or "Celts" or "Romans" or "Illyrians" and so on. In addition to many of those tests being very incomplete in terms of sample size and representative populations, they also tend to generalize and over-simplify things a bit too much.

When it comes to these ancient ethnicities, you have to keep in mind that they themselves were probably still an amalgam of other peoples and types, and not just a single unified homogenous group (though not as heterogenous as people today probably).

JFWR
24-07-12, 04:56
Well, thank you. I definitely will be looking into it.

Medieval Greek used the word Ῥωμανία" to refer to the Empire (Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων/Imperium Romanum), so you'll see Rhomanian and Roman used to refer to denizens of the Empire. I suppose the superfluous "h" is thrown in to not confuse the people of the Byzantine Empire to the pre-Theodosian-division Roman Empire.

Gotcha. I was thinking you were confusing the fact that the Romanian people use a romance language.

LeBrok
24-07-12, 05:16
I think people sometimes have a tendency of associating and attaching themselves too much to these ancient tribes, as if that's all that matters in people today. They tend to be especially those around the Classical era (hence some are almost semi-legendary), but Europe is a different place in a way today, as populations have moved a good bit, and others have entered and made their contributions. Plus, one shouldn't forget the older Neolithic and Paleolithic peoples as well.

I find some places like igenea to be kind of silly in attaching the name of some ancient tribe to a particular haplogroup or people, but it's what attracts people to the services because I guess they like hearing that they came from "Vikings" or "Celts" or "Romans" or "Illyrians" and so on. In addition to many of those tests being very incomplete in terms of sample size and representative populations, they also tend to generalize and over-simplify things a bit too much.

When it comes to these ancient ethnicities, you have to keep in mind that they themselves were probably still an amalgam of other peoples and types, and not just a single unified homogenous group (though not as heterogenous as people today probably).
Looks like people are too romantic to see the reality.

Kosta
24-07-12, 06:24
Gotcha. I was thinking you were confusing the fact that the Romanian people use a romance language.

That's another reason we have to throw that weird "h" into the word when we're discussing demonyms of the Eastern Roman Empire, and a reason I can't be some kind of ethnic-hipster and call myself a proud Romanian, or else I might here "Eh, ai vorbesc limba română!?" all the time!

JFWR
24-07-12, 08:25
That's another reason we have to throw that weird "h" into the word when we're discussing demonyms of the Eastern Roman Empire, and a reason I can't be some kind of ethnic-hipster and call myself a proud Romanian, or else I might here "Eh, ai vorbesc limba română!?" all the time!

I don't think most people would speak to you in Romanian. So "all the time" would be a bit much. ;)

But yes. Thanks for informing me about that.

MarkyMark
06-08-12, 08:34
Greco-Romans, Phoenecians, and Mesopotamians

sparkey
06-08-12, 17:43
Greco-Romans, Phoenecians, and Mesopotamians

Any chance you're part Assyrian, part Lebanese? This sounds a bit like my mother-in-law's mixture.

EDIT: Just saw that you answered that elsewhere (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27660-New-Member). Cool!

flupke
23-09-12, 12:44
My dna testing being autosomal or sex related has confirmed my Northern roots
mainly Northern sea germanic.
Call it Saxon, Frisian or jutish; I guess a bit of Frank too since they were based in my region and I speak a language that has both Nordern zee germanisch and Frankish roots: WestVlaemsch

toyomotor
02-04-13, 00:37
Who do you identify as your ancestors ? Good question. I have a predisposition towards my mothers paternal line, which is Irish. This can be documented for almost a thousand years. I have no idea of my paternity, but I have fair skin, blue eyes and brown hair. I was stunned to find that my yDNA is D(M174) or, according to some predictors D-M255. These are almost exclusively Japanese. The possibility that my father was Japanese is out of the question, I was born just after WW2 in Australia. I'm still waiting on further test results to try and clarify this.

LeBrok
02-04-13, 00:50
Who do you identify as your ancestors ? Good question. I have a predisposition towards my mothers paternal line, which is Irish. This can be documented for almost a thousand years. I have no idea of my paternity, but I have fair skin, blue eyes and brown hair. I was stunned to find that my yDNA is D(M174) or, according to some predictors D-M255. These are almost exclusively Japanese. The possibility that my father was Japanese is out of the question, I was born just after WW2 in Australia. I'm still waiting on further test results to try and clarify this.
That's surprising and interesting, isn't it. Welcome to Eupedia toyomotor.

Grubbe
04-05-13, 17:29
I identify with my primarily Norwegian ancestry, although I of course have a few Danes, Germans, Forest Finns and Dutch among my ancestors around 1650 and earlier. My Family Finder results at FTDNA say I am about 93 % Orcadian and about 7 % Russian/Finnish.

BakodiP
04-05-13, 22:52
I identify my ancestry primary Hungarian, on maternal side some German roots. My Y-DNA haplogroup J2b* indicates a rather Middle Eastern/Caucasus or Balkan origin.

tjlowery87
10-05-13, 03:16
my ancestory comes from Yorkshire,and im i1as7e so ill say Germanic anglo saxon

joechill01
10-05-13, 05:36
I'm R1b-P312 so the Celts for me so much so that I never walk alone (http://www.gophoto.it/view.php?i=http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38889000/jpg/_38889921_fans_gi300x200.jpg). Though I always enjoyed Yiddish culture thanks to comedians like Mel Brooks, recently I found that I have 1.1%-2.3% declared Ashkenazi blood so according to 23andme I must have had a great great great great ancestor who was Ashkenazi. All I got to say about that is L'chaim!

Jussik
25-05-13, 05:38
My suggestion is that you read up on kvenland..The old mid eastern realm of the peninsula...there are sagas that tie both Finns "kvens" and Norse together...particularly the ynling saga...great eastern kings that began dynasty's....not to mention rurik who began the kievian rus...another Viking with Finnic roots.

Jussik
25-05-13, 05:43
My suggestion is that you read up on kvenland..The old mid eastern realm of the peninsula...there are sagas that tie both Finns "kvens" and Norse together...particularly the ynling saga...great eastern kings that began dynasty's....not to mention rurik who began the kievian rus...another Viking with Finnic roots.


Yes, but how do you see it for people in the Friends section ? Or do you mean that the default Icelander is your best match among the 200+ individuals available for comparison as "public friends" ?



What is strange is that you are closer to this/these Icelander(s) than most Scandinavians would be. Two unrelated individuals from a same country would get about 19 or 20% of similarity at 1MB, not 21.7%. How can you be closer to Icelanders than other Scandinavians or perhaps even some Icelanders themselves ?

Even weirder is that you should have a high similarity with a Finn too. Finns are very different genetically from Scandinavians due to their partial Siberian ancestry and very limited Indo-European admixture (R1a and R1b). All my close matches are Scandinavians or Dutch, but none are Finns. I am closer to Italians and Spaniards than to Finns.

Read about kvenland. The ynling saga...according to which the fairhair dynasty os Norway was founded by a kven "Finn" king.

Jussik
25-05-13, 05:44
Not western Finns...generally from ostrobothnia

Jussik
25-05-13, 05:46
Finns further east tend to be genetically isolated from other groups...or we're anyways.

toyomotor
26-05-13, 04:20
For many years I have most identified with the Irish Celts. My mothers paternal line can be traced back to ~2000ybp. I have no idea of my paternity, but was astounded to find that I carry YDNA D21b-which almost exclusively Japanese. I have all European phenotypes and it appears that the Hpg D may have its origins about 700 years ago.

LeBrok
26-05-13, 05:32
For many years I have most identified with the Irish Celts. My mothers paternal line can be traced back to ~2000ybp.
Could you tell us how you were able to figure it out. Not even queen of England can check her ancestry that far back.
Did you discovered any written records pre 500 AD in Ireland I'm not sure how many documents survived dark ages, so I would claim that not much but few poems and prayers. Perhaps you meant 200 ybp?

Ember83
07-06-13, 22:56
I really can't tell it! But maybe, I have Picentes and/or Senones roots.

I have light skin and brown hair, like my father (and my grandmother was reddish with blue eyes), while in my mother's family they mostly have olive skin and dark hair, but my mother has hazel eyes like me.

I don't know if it's useful to know one's features in determining ancestry, though :ashamed2:

Alan
10-06-13, 23:03
That's strange. In all the Tuscan studies they are far more than 2/3 european:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/R79MXyHURCI/AAAAAAAAAFg/8MeKImXcV34/s1600/structurescience.jpg


Well if you consider that around half of these 1/3 Asia minor genes should actually overlap with European genes, since even today people of Asia minor are so, than nothing is strange here at all.

Canrith
21-08-13, 07:12
Howdy, first time posting.

I'm actually looking for an ethnicity to identify with since I was adopted and know nothing about my biological parents... So I took a DNA Test on 23andMe but the results are so wide that I guess I get to choose the one I like the most, ha ha:

19.4% Italian
15.1% Iberian
6.9% French and German
2.5% British and Irish
1.5% Scandinavian
12.0% Native American
4.6% Sub-Saharan African

I tried FTDNA and got:

46.84% Finnish, French, Orcadian, Russian, Spanish
5.4% Mandenka, Yoruba
34.20% Adygei
13.92% Columbian, Maya, Surui

I won't even tell you what I got from the admixtures in GEDmatch because I tried them all and each one had different results
=)

So I think I'll pick a new one each month...

sparkey
21-08-13, 16:48
I'm actually looking for an ethnicity to identify with since I was adopted and know nothing about my biological parents... So I took a DNA Test on 23andMe but the results are so wide that I guess I get to choose the one I like the most, ha ha:

Y-DNA R1b, mtDNA A2, high percentages Spanish and Native American in autosomal, from Peru, all strongly indicate mestizo ancestry. You also seem to have about 5% black African ancestry mixed in with that. It will be hard to narrow down tribes for the Native American and African components based on the DNA, but I'd definitely guess Spanish as the primary European component and the source of your Y-DNA.

silkyslovanbojkovsky
21-08-13, 17:59
three of my grandparents are from Slovakia and the fourth is an American mix of German, French, Scottish, Irish, Swiss and English. My Y haplogroup says I am R1a and an Autosomal result from Ancestry.com had me listed as 29% Scandinavian, 63% Eastern European, and 8 Percaint uncertain. Growing up in the U.S if you have European background or were born is Europe as I was, a lot of times you just say your European, because a lot of people in the U.S don't really make to big of a difference. however Ive Always thought of myself as being Mostly Slavic with some Germanic and Celtic infulences. After my Autosomal dna test though I just think of myself as Still heavily Slavic but a substantial piece of me as Germanic. Oddly enough I look somewhat similar to known people of Germanic-Slavic ancestry. Like Michael Ballack and Arnold Schwarzenegger. I would also say I am central European.

silkyslovanbojkovsky
21-08-13, 18:22
Hello to all. I am able to trace my ancestry back through my mother to Edward III of England. (George Washington is my cousin, believe it or not). My father's family was 100% German! ...Or, so I thought. I now find the I am J1c* (and possibly part of a new J1c4). I am still German but how did my ancestors get there? I trace them back to 1614 in Baden, Germany. My mtDNA is T. Being new to this any thoughts would be appreciated.

You could be partially Jewish

silkyslovanbojkovsky
21-08-13, 18:26
Really I love history my self, but understanding my ancestors is a huge motivation for that, and then of course I want to identify with them. Also being and immigrant in the U.S I think has made that desire even stronger. I sometimes do just think of myself as an international man, so I could see where your coming from if that's how you think of yourself

silkyslovanbojkovsky
21-08-13, 18:37
theres no way hes Croation, he must be adopted or a completely confused

Noman
23-08-13, 10:49
Only thing I know for sure is my mtdna group, which is V. And also a result that seems very odd.


AFAIK the global similarity compares you to all reference populations at the 1Kb level. This does not include any friends or public friends. So the my No. 1 ranking with Iceland would be a comparison with the whole reference population.

My Finnish match is actually a known predicted cousin from 23andme. I have looked into this and spoken to her at length via email. We have concluded that it is a distant relationship 1630's possibly during the "Thirty Years War" in Europe where Finnish troops were deployed in battle with mainland European Catholics.

I really don't know why I match Scandinavians closer than they match themselves. I have posted my results in at number of forums including DNA forums and no one seems to have a clue except for the standard remark
"are you sure you are pure Croatian?" I have very high Runs of Homozygosity (ROHs) 68.616% which is higher then most Finns. This tells you that you may be from a bottle-necked population. Coastal Croatia is very mountainous and protected. Perhaps there are pockets where ancient peoples were bottle-necked and interbred extensively. These original people could have been similar genetically to Scandinavians? Or the only other way to explain my high match with Icelanders would be to theorize that there were "recent" (500-1000 years) visits by Viking traders and that they interbred with the locals?

You need to interpret the results carefully as well. If you look at the chromosome map some of the bands are in ancient regions that are common to a lot of Europeans. However even when all of this is subtracted I still end up matching Icelanders better than any other population.

There's various levels of recombination within human groups and individuals. For (remaining) I group, the recombination group is the lowest in general and for you to have higher ROH than finns is amazing. Your individual recombination rate must be near zero (it's controlled by genetics).

This would also explain why you have remained so unchanged while the country around you has changed dramatically, if this is the case.

If so, pretty neat.

apulomilan
23-08-13, 21:55
I've always lived in Milan, but my parents come from north Apulia, some kilometres away from the town of Lucera, a place that should be interesting from a genetical point of view, as during Middle ages its population reached -they say- the number of 60.000 people and was almost entirely inhabited by the arabs deported from Sicily by "stupor mundi" Frederick II.

I don't know which is my ancestry (the etnicity of north Apulia area is probably a mix of italic-illyrian, with some lombards/normans strains, judging from the somehow diffused phenotypes in the zone).

I only know that when I went to Greece on vacation I felt the ancestral feeling to be definitively at home.

Some of my friends from South Italy that had went to Greece, confirmed me that they felt the same sensation.

As a matter of fact, I think that South Italy is still deeply (in the good and bad) linked to Greece.

BakodiP
25-08-13, 20:28
I identify my ancestry primary Hungarian, on maternal side some German roots. My Y-DNA haplogroup J2b* indicates a rather Middle Eastern/Caucasus or Balkan origin.

Now I know that my mtDNA haplogroup is U5b2b1b and my autosomal result in Population Finder looks like this:
5989

Not quite tipical for a Hungarian! :laughing:

Yaan
26-08-13, 17:50
Man do not trust Family Tree for auto, they are really without a clue, most Bulgarians are like 75-80% British and the rest jewish or Egyptian, while on the great site 23andme we are like 99% European 1% Asian or 100% European, mostly Balkan with Italian and East European, so do not even look at this result twice :) Just do the great 23andme, Family Tree is for haplogroups and West Europeans :) They have no samples for us and just make jokes

Yaan
26-08-13, 17:52
I am Bulgarian and identify with all Slavs in the world and with the ancient Thracian, I also feel connected with Greeks and Italians. My DNA test has not shown anything to make me change my mind ofc :)

BakodiP
26-08-13, 19:57
Man do not trust Family Tree for auto, they are really without a clue, most Bulgarians are like 75-80% British and the rest jewish or Egyptian, while on the great site 23andme we are like 99% European 1% Asian or 100% European, mostly Balkan with Italian and East European, so do not even look at this result twice :) Just do the great 23andme, Family Tree is for haplogroups and West Europeans :) They have no samples for us and just make jokes

I'm not going to invest another 100 or 200$ on this! :laughing: I wait for my raw data to come in and check GedMatch, Harappa and other free admixture tools! Anyway, thanks for the advice, not to take FTDNA's PF to seriously! :wink:

BakodiP
31-08-13, 10:35
I'm not going to invest another 100 or 200$ on this! :laughing: I wait for my raw data to come in and check GedMatch, Harappa and other free admixture tools! Anyway, thanks for the advice, not to take FTDNA's PF to seriously! :wink:

I have my raw data, so I've did Dodecad, HarappaWorld, and Eurogenes tests.
600560066007

I have different admixture for comparing to populations, but mostly Hungarian and other Eastern European and Balkan populations. What do you think? Which is the best admixture tools from these ones?

Daveed
01-09-13, 16:13
Even though i am not full jewish i identify my ancient ancestors as the Ancient Hebrews, mainly because i am Jewish by religion and out of all the admixtures i am my Jewishness is what im most proud of.

Tabaccus Maximus
26-09-13, 05:27
Americans have an unsual way of identifying themselves ethnically. Throughout much of the country people, especially the South, people genetically descended from Northwest Europeans simply refer to their ethnicity as "Americans" with no further qualification. All other people in America generally hyphenate a particular race, ethnicity or religion to give distiction follow by "-American". How every American choses to identify himself on the U.S. Census is in iteself a very interesting and much studied topic.

If you ask a 'non-ethic' white in the tire shop or barber shop what his race or heritage is, he will tell you he is "White"
"White Americans" through much of the country, and particularly the South, use the term "White" in several ways that can easily be misunderstood.
Although "White" can be substituted for Caucausian, many Whites use the term as an ethnic distinction. For example, it may refer exclusively to native born American Whites who are generally descended from the British Islands with minor inputs from Germans, France, etc.
White can also mean a Northern European type people to the exclusion of what are sometimes called "ethnics' or "ethnic whites" (in other words, people from another European culture, religion or culture)

American "Whites" generally seem to identify somewhat with their assumed to be native culture (like being Irish, German or Scottish) but strangely almost never identify with England. That is bizarre given the genealogical data white suggests that American Whites and a component of all other ethnicities (such as Cherokees or Blacks) have very substantial amounts of English ancestry.

toyomotor
11-10-13, 15:55
I strongly identify with my mothers paternal line which is Celtic Irish. DNA Tests tell me that my deep past was anchored in Japan or possibly Tibet(D212a), with more recent sources in Kosovo/Albania.

Twilight
27-10-13, 22:31
I identify myself as mostly a British Islesman because I predominately originate from there and I seem to have been attracted in that area, as far as meta-identity goes, I tend to see myself as 2/3 Romano-Celtic and 1/3 Germanic

tjlowery87
29-10-13, 03:59
Americans have an unsual way of identifying themselves ethnically. Throughout much of the country people, especially the South, people genetically descended from Northwest Europeans simply refer to their ethnicity as "Americans" with no further qualification. All other people in America generally hyphenate a particular race, ethnicity or religion to give distiction follow by "-American". How every American choses to identify himself on the U.S. Census is in iteself a very interesting and much studied topic.

If you ask a 'non-ethic' white in the tire shop or barber shop what his race or heritage is, he will tell you he is "White"
"White Americans" through much of the country, and particularly the South, use the term "White" in several ways that can easily be misunderstood.
Although "White" can be substituted for Caucausian, many Whites use the term as an ethnic distinction. For example, it may refer exclusively to native born American Whites who are generally descended from the British Islands with minor inputs from Germans, France, etc.
White can also mean a Northern European type people to the exclusion of what are sometimes called "ethnics' or "ethnic whites" (in other words, people from another European culture, religion or culture)

American "Whites" generally seem to identify somewhat with their assumed to be native culture (like being Irish, German or Scottish) but strangely almost never identify with England. That is bizarre given the genealogical data white suggests that American Whites and a component of all other ethnicities (such as Cherokees or Blacks) have very substantial amounts of English ancestry.

im proud of my English heritage!

American Idiot
19-11-13, 07:50
as for my Y-DNA results I can identify with the Strathclyde Britons of dark-age Scotland. My Y-dna is the "Scots model" or whatever you want to call it, but certain markers I share are mostly found in other people with surnames and family history that came from the area around Dumbarton,Glasgow, North Ayrshire,Lanark,, etc... which makes sense to me since many of the Ulster-Scots who came to America originated in the western Lowlands of Scotland. And that is consistant with my family history, too.

As for my autosomal DNA results I identify mainly with Romano-Britons/Celts from England and also maybe part of Scotland, as well as Germanic Anglo-Saxons of Britain.

American Idiot
19-11-13, 08:13
Americans have an unsual way of identifying themselves ethnically. Throughout much of the country people, especially the South, people genetically descended from Northwest Europeans simply refer to their ethnicity as "Americans" with no further qualification. All other people in America generally hyphenate a particular race, ethnicity or religion to give distiction follow by "-American". How every American choses to identify himself on the U.S. Census is in iteself a very interesting and much studied topic.

If you ask a 'non-ethic' white in the tire shop or barber shop what his race or heritage is, he will tell you he is "White"
"White Americans" through much of the country, and particularly the South, use the term "White" in several ways that can easily be misunderstood.
Although "White" can be substituted for Caucausian, many Whites use the term as an ethnic distinction. For example, it may refer exclusively to native born American Whites who are generally descended from the British Islands with minor inputs from Germans, France, etc.
White can also mean a Northern European type people to the exclusion of what are sometimes called "ethnics' or "ethnic whites" (in other words, people from another European culture, religion or culture)

American "Whites" generally seem to identify somewhat with their assumed to be native culture (like being Irish, German or Scottish) but strangely almost never identify with England. That is bizarre given the genealogical data white suggests that American Whites and a component of all other ethnicities (such as Cherokees or Blacks) have very substantial amounts of English ancestry.

its true what you say and it's a shame really because from what I have read and understand, the English settlers/population that came to the Southern U.S. generally had distinct cultural/regional origins from within England that came to be the dominating influence that contributed to the culture/accents etc... of the American South more than any other groups that settled here.

I especially like the book titled "Bound Away: Virginia and the westward movement" by David Hackett Fisher that tells a great deal specifically about the English settlers of the American South and their impact on it's history and culture.

one reason many American Southerners say they're "American" is because most are greatly mixed with ancestry throughout the British Isles, So ethnic labels like "Irish" or "English", taken separately, only account for part of their ancestry. Maybe a "British-American" ethnic label would fit better, but after the American Revolution, few people wanted to call themselves British in America. After that they started to say they were "American". Another factor is that many people/families who call themselves simply "Irish" or "German" in America came here in the mid-19th century, whereas most Southerners have roots that go back much further and so dont readily identify with any specific European group in a detailed way.

Plus in my experience, White ethnicity has never been important or emphasized in the South to the degree it has been in other parts of America. It was always a person's race that mattered most. The culture of the South came from a blending of various groups, mainly from British Isles (as well as west Africa and Native America) that were greatly mixed on a cultural level.

and because many White Southerners have roots in early colonial America, alot of them simply dont know enough about their own family history to readily identify with any specific European group.

and you're right about the term "White" in America. Someone who might come here from Spain or Portugal may not be seen as White but rather as "Mexican" or hispanic. Americans really are ignorant when it comes to other cultures.

I think it's because early American history was dominated by people of NW European ancestry, and so that is why in America "White" is mainly seen as being of NW European background. I have a friend who is Arab-American. She was born here so she has an American accent. Everyone thinks she is "White" and doesnt even think she is Arab. But her parents, both immigrants from the middle east, are seen as Arabs and not as White by most people they come across.
and her parents dress like westerners, so you cant tell they are Muslim by how they dress either.

she looks just like her father who is Palestinian, yet she is seen as "White" by most people she comes across while both of her parents are seen as "non-White" . It's the dumbest thing, but it's completely true.

Degredado
20-11-13, 03:39
and you're right about the term "White" in America. Someone who might come here from Spain or Portugal may not be seen as White but rather as "Mexican" or hispanic. Americans really are ignorant when it comes to other cultures.

Americans have this astonishingly stupid notion of lumping Spaniards and Mexicans (and all Latin Americans) all together, as if they formed one single big race - "Spanish", "Hispanic" or "Latino" - completely ignoring the very different ethnic make-up of these countries.

On the other hand, Americans would never in a million years label Jamaicans or African-Americans as "English" or "Anglo-Saxon", although these peoples speak English, have English names and often have partial English/British ancestry.

adamo
20-11-13, 05:46
Correct; the genetic makeup of Mexicans is predominantly Native American although the modern "mestizo" phenomenon or "mixed", since spanish colonial times has seen the introduction of European genetics into Mexico. It is unbelievably false to genetically class native Americans with European spaniards simply on the basis that they both speak the Spanish tongue. As we know, the Spanish are predominantly west-European with a mild but present Mediterranean substratum (Neolithic haplogroups) whereas the Mexicans traditionally have always been amerinds with a newly introduced (within 500 years) spanish colonial substratum.

EastAnglian
21-11-13, 18:28
I'm from the East of England(as my name suggests) so a mix of Scandinavian and Celtic (Iceni). My admix on K15 shows Sweden and Orcadian as top populations. My Y-DNA is Iberian-Celt, not sure if that comes from the Iceni though. So I identify with the Vikings and the Celts.

Dagne
02-12-13, 10:18
I identify myself with Mesolithic hunter gatherers of Europe.

mitchellsince1893
16-12-13, 02:02
Before I did dna testing, based on genealogical research I figured I was about 40% English, 25% Scottish and Scotch-Irish, 20% Welsh, and 15% German.


From dna testing I've learned that is mostly true except for the addition of some Scandinavian, Finnish, and South Asian, altogether totaling less than 5%.


What I found surprising was my Y-dna ancestry. Being that my oldest known paternal ancestor was born in London, England; I would have thought my ancestry would have been Celtic L21 or Anglo-Saxon U106 especially since many of my closest STR matches were from these 2 groups.

I was surprised to learn last year that I was U152 as it supposedly only makes up less than 9% of English males. Since then I've taken a crash course on Hallstead, La Tene, the Belgae, the Gauls, Romano-British history, etc.

Based on the above, the ancient ethnic group I now most identify with are the Belgae of Britain and the Romano-British.

English Lad
16-12-13, 10:52
As far as YDNA goes, I identify with the Vikings who lives in the West of Norway. As far as automosal goes, I'd still identify with Germanic folk, Celtic folk a little less.

Aberdeen
16-12-13, 20:00
I'm a mixture of English and German on my mother's side, but I identify more with my paternal ancestors who all came from northeastern Scotland, Aberdeen and Banffshire. People in that part of Scotland are like Scotland's third tribe, not really Highlanders or Lowlanders but their own unique culture. And I see myself as a Pict, which according to me is pre-IE but according to a lot of other people being a Pict would make me a Welshman.

Keegah
02-02-14, 23:15
Americans have an unsual way of identifying themselves ethnically. Throughout much of the country people, especially the South, people genetically descended from Northwest Europeans simply refer to their ethnicity as "Americans" with no further qualification. All other people in America generally hyphenate a particular race, ethnicity or religion to give distiction follow by "-American". How every American choses to identify himself on the U.S. Census is in iteself a very interesting and much studied topic.

If you ask a 'non-ethic' white in the tire shop or barber shop what his race or heritage is, he will tell you he is "White"
"White Americans" through much of the country, and particularly the South, use the term "White" in several ways that can easily be misunderstood.
Although "White" can be substituted for Caucausian, many Whites use the term as an ethnic distinction. For example, it may refer exclusively to native born American Whites who are generally descended from the British Islands with minor inputs from Germans, France, etc.
White can also mean a Northern European type people to the exclusion of what are sometimes called "ethnics' or "ethnic whites" (in other words, people from another European culture, religion or culture)

American "Whites" generally seem to identify somewhat with their assumed to be native culture (like being Irish, German or Scottish) but strangely almost never identify with England. That is bizarre given the genealogical data white suggests that American Whites and a component of all other ethnicities (such as Cherokees or Blacks) have very substantial amounts of English ancestry.

Personally, I think this is because English culture is so well-represented in America, American culture being derived from it, but everything else is not. Even though there are almost as many, if not more, Irish-Americans and German-Americans in America as there are people of English descent. I'm convinced that the desire to know more about and to assert your culture and heritage is an inbuilt trait of humans. For Europeans, their heritage and ancestral identity is all around them. Not so for Americans, unless you're English. I think that this is why you see such vocal pride in their heritage from Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, sometimes German-Americans, etc.. It's a way to compensate for being immersed in a culture that you cannot claim any ancestral identity with. This is all just conjecture though.

Aberdeen
02-02-14, 23:43
Personally, I think this is because English culture is so well-represented in America, American culture being derived from it, but everything else is not. Even though there are almost as many, if not more, Irish-Americans and German-Americans in America as there are people of English descent. I'm convinced that the desire to know more about and to assert your culture and heritage is an inbuilt trait of humans. For Europeans, their heritage and ancestral identity is all around them. Not so for Americans, unless you're English. I think that this is why you see such vocal pride in their heritage from Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, sometimes German-Americans, etc.. It's a way to compensate for being immersed in a culture that you cannot claim any ancestral identity with. This is all just conjecture though.

Judging by the content of many American television shows and movies I've seen, I think the American reluctance to identify with the English has to do with the fact that many Americans are still fighting the American Revolution, and don't want to identify with King George of England. That's why Americans of English descent will often identify themselves as "just white Americans" and why they frequently deny that many of the roots of their culture and many of the roots of their legal and political institutions can be found in England. And if you talk to Americans about American law, for example, you'll find that many of them will deny that things like habeas corpus and trial by a jury of one's peers are English inventions. Those are things that Americans have, so they're American.

Keegah
03-02-14, 01:15
Judging by the content of many American television shows and movies I've seen, I think the American reluctance to identify with the English has to do with the fact that many Americans are still fighting the American Revolution, and don't want to identify with King George of England. That's why Americans of English descent will often identify themselves as "just white Americans" and why they frequently deny that many of the roots of their culture and many of the roots of their legal and political institutions can be found in England. And if you talk to Americans about American law, for example, you'll find that many of them will deny that things like habeas corpus and trial by a jury of one's peers are English inventions. Those are things that Americans have, so they're American.

Well, that's the other thing. It's something of an interesting paradox in America, and has been since the birth of this country. Even though there has been a strong anti-English sentiment in America until fairly recently, that doesn't change the fact that for the vast majority of our history we have looked down on and marginalized anyone that wasn't of English Protestant descent. Anti-Irish, Anti-German, Anti-Jewish, Anti-Black, Anti-Chinese, Anti-pretty much anyone that isn't a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant sentiment has been a mainstay of American culture for a very long time, and to some extent still is. All other cultures other than English culture are viciously stereotyped and the common denominator to these stereotypes is often lesser intelligence or sophistication in some way. See the historic Know-Nothing Party and the Nativists for an example. Now, working class America doesn't necessarily view this as a bad thing. I wouldn't say that Hibernophobia still thrives in America, because the qualities that Irishmen have historically been and still are stereotyped with - drunkeness, propensity to fight, a reliance on folk wisdom instead of intellectual knowledge - are now viewed as admirable by most Americans. That probably isn't a good thing, but that's a topic for another discussion. Still, while other ethnic groups are stereotyped as being foolish or borderline-barbaric, the English are typically stereotyped as being sophisticated and knowledgeable to a fault. I think that this is a holdover from the days when we viewed English culture as the only true representation of American culture, even if we refused to admit that said American culture was derived from the hated English.

Finbar
21-03-14, 13:22
Whith what ancient ethnicity do I most identify?
Well, in my family tree there is about a 50-50 mix of Gaelic Irish and "Old English" names. I presume many of the "Old English" took native wives, so that would make me probably around 75% native Irish, 25% other (Norman, Flemish, Breton, Anglo-Saxon, etc.) but about 50% "Old English" in the male line.
Historically, my family name seems to have emerged in a coastal area of the old earldom of Northumbria, which could mean anything, as it is on the border of England and Scotland, and was a historical ingress point for continental invasions/migations.
What my DNA has told me is that I might be I2b, and that the accesible internet record of y-dna results is pretty much devoid of anyone of a genetic distance closer than 10, whatever that means.

sparkey
21-03-14, 21:44
What my DNA has told me is that I might be I2b, and that the accesible internet record of y-dna results is pretty much devoid of anyone of a genetic distance closer than 10, whatever that means.

A GD of 10 on how many markers? Could be an interesting result. Care to share your results?

Finbar
22-03-14, 02:47
My apologies. There are better matches (GD 5 on 23 markers being lowest). What I should have said was that there is GD of 10 on 25 markers for a testee with the same surname and the same area of ancestral origin as me.
Our name is relatively uncommon (Prendergast), and very likely goes back to pre-Norman Conquest Northumbria. So there is a definite 1000 year time frame for divergence/mutation, or a possible 1500 year or more.
If you go to the FTDNA Pendergraft-Prendergast name group results page (I'm not allowed to post a link, but it's easy to find on google), you will see one member in group 2, kit number 13909, and in the "Ungrouped" section at the bottom you will see me, kit number 324866.
Neither of us have been assigned a haplogroup by FTDNA, but we both test as I2b using the Whit Athey predictor. We are given a genetic distance of 10 by ysearch.org.
If anyone can tell me what this means, or if it means nothing, I would be really grateful. I'm new to this, but to me it seems that two people sharing a relatively uncommon surname and a pretty uncommon haplogroup, coming from the same area, there is likely a link. Yes?

ukaj
22-03-14, 13:06
I strongly identify with Ancient Greeks and a bit with Franks because where my parents come from the frankish influence was big. Recently I learned that I indeed have Frank ancestors but no one in my family has done a dna test so I don't have any information on y and m haplogroups.

In general, Greeks are very proud of their ancestors and I doubt you will find a Greek not identifying with Ancient Greeks. lol so not true

ukaj
22-03-14, 13:11
I am Bulgarian and identify with all Slavs in the world and with the ancient Thracian, I also feel connected with Greeks and Italians. My DNA test has not shown anything to make me change my mind ofc :)Slavs are not thracians my friend,,Maybe without being rude you should try find where the word bulga comes from then you may find your real roots,,:thinking: