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rms2
17-04-10, 18:40
As of this morning, here are some interesting statistics from FTDNA's Ancestral Origins database regarding men who have been y-dna tested to at least 12 STR markers.

British Isles Total = 53,261

Western Europe Total = 27,548

For Western Europe, I included the following countries:

Austria; Belgium; Czech Republic; Denmark; France; Germany; Italy; Netherlands; Norway; Portugal; Spain; Sweden, and Switzerland.

Here are the separate totals for each country, beginning with the British Isles:

England = 20,461

Scotland = 9,514

Wales = 1,713

Northern Ireland = 607

United Kingdom = 9,077

Ireland = 11,889

Total = 53, 261


Western Europe

Austria = 519

Belgium = 449

Czech Republic = 547

Denmark = 718

France = 2,883

Germany = 10,385

Italy = 2,968

Netherlands = 1,434

Norway = 1,137

Portugal = 670

Spain = 2,919

Sweden = 1,400

Switzerland = 1,519

Total = 27,548

The overall total for all these countries together, including the nations of the British Isles, is 80,809.

British Isles Proportion = 53,261/80,809 = 66%

Western Europe Proportion = 27,548/80,809 = 34%

Since my primary interest is R1b, I restricted myself to Western and Northern Europe and did not include Eastern and Southeastern Europe; but, honestly, I don't think including those regions would do much to reduce the overall preponderance of British samples in the Ancestral Origins database.

Germany has the highest representation of any non-British Isles western European nation, yet England alone has almost twice as many entries as Germany, and little Ireland has over 1,500 more entries than Germany.

I think it is essential to keep these figures in mind when considering the European origins of any haplogroup or subclade.

Obviously, we need a lot more samples from men of continental European origin.

Maciamo
18-04-10, 14:14
That's interesting. Belgium is the country with the least FTDNA members. It has less members than countries with a similar or lower population like the Czech Republic, Austria, Switerland, Denmark, Sweden or Portugal. I think it is because many French speakers still regard genetic testing suspiciously.

Proportionally to the total population France and Italy have the lowest number of members in Western Europe.

Eireannach
21-04-10, 11:49
The popularity of people testing in Ireland may be a result of a TV programme called "Blood of the Irish" on the national broadcaster RTÉ. There have also been studies done in Trinity College by a Dr. Bradley on Irish ancestry which have been reported in the media, which may have tickled some peoples interest.

rms2
24-04-10, 16:16
The popularity of people testing in Ireland may be a result of a TV programme called "Blood of the Irish" on the national broadcaster RTÉ. There have also been studies done in Trinity College by a Dr. Bradley on Irish ancestry which have been reported in the media, which may have tickled some peoples interest.

It's too bad that tv program and those studies jumped the gun and declared the Irish to be the descendants of "Spanish fishermen".

Thus far not too much L21 has shown up in Iberia.

rms2
24-04-10, 16:34
That's interesting. Belgium is the country with the least FTDNA members. It has less members than countries with a similar or lower population like the Czech Republic, Austria, Switerland, Denmark, Sweden or Portugal. I think it is because many French speakers still regard genetic testing suspiciously.

Proportionally to the total population France and Italy have the lowest number of members in Western Europe.

Yes, which makes the results we have from those countries all the more intriguing and valuable.

Just think of the distorting effect of the fact that 2/3 of all the y-dna in FTDNA's database is of British Isles origin! That will affect R1b1b2 and its subclades even more than it does other haplogroups because the y-dna of the British Isles and Western Europe consists predominantly of various clades of R1b1b2.

Wilhelm
24-04-10, 17:30
It's too bad that tv program and those studies jumped the gun and declared the Irish to be the descendants of "Spanish fishermen".

Thus far not too much L21 has shown up in Iberia.
there hasn't been a deep L21 testing so far

rms2
24-04-10, 18:30
there hasn't been a deep L21 testing so far

That's not exactly true, but it depends on what you mean by "deep". There has been enough SNP testing of men of Iberian descent to detect a definite trend.

More L21+ will turn up in Iberia, no doubt. On the other hand, I think R-L21 will still be relatively rare there when all is said and done.

Just compare the numbers of other R1b1b2 clades (including R-P312*) to the amount of R-L21 in Iberia. The difference is significant.

rms2
26-04-10, 02:46
Actually, I'm going to kind of reverse myself and say that I expect L21 to start showing up fairly frequently in the Iberian Peninsula. Just a hunch, I guess.

willy
26-04-10, 03:13
can i do send to ftdna the dna of my cat ? I would like to know his real origin .

A ke bono kane kotto
27-04-10, 10:35
can i do send to ftdna the dna of my cat ? I would like to know his real origin .

Why do you want to test a cat ? Do you have too much money ?

willy
27-04-10, 19:40
I want to test my cat because he has blue eyes and think he comes from the north India or from himalaya mountains he is a pure race Siamois .

Mikewww
27-04-10, 21:16
I used RMS2's FTDNA Ancestral Origins data and I attempted to "normalize" the R-L21* distribution to account for the huge differences in DNA testing penetration by country.

Keep in mind that the population of Germany is larger than all of the British Isles. The population of France is about the same as all of the British Isles.

If you look at the proportion of the following R-L21* "hotspots" (we think) in the Isles and compare that with two countries on the continent where R-L21* is showing up in force here is what you get when normalized for testing rates and populations.

Among the countries listed below, here is the total normalized population of R-L21* expected per country as a proportion of all of the below countries:

Ireland 8% (of the total)

Scotland 4%

Wales 5%

England 21% (so England is the biggest R-L21* country in the Isles)

Germany 13%

France 49% (that's right, France is large state that is under tested)

In summary, of the above countries it is projected that 49% of all R-L21* found will be in France.

I take this all with a grain of salt since the continental data is too low anyway. Perhaps more importantly, I think in large part the commercial databases reflect those who immigrated to the U.S.

Notes:
1) I included Northern Ireland under Ireland
2) I used the data data RMS2 reported from the FTDNA Ancestral Origins database for total tested per country, 2001 population census estimates from Wikipedia and R-L21* confirmed folks in the project and the spreadsheet under "FILES" in the R-L21Plus Yahoo Group.


As of this morning, here are some interesting statistics from FTDNA's Ancestral Origins database regarding men who have been y-dna tested to at least 12 STR markers.

British Isles Total = 53,261

Western Europe Total = 27,548

For Western Europe, I included the following countries:

Austria; Belgium; Czech Republic; Denmark; France; Germany; Italy; Netherlands; Norway; Portugal; Spain; Sweden, and Switzerland.

Here are the separate totals for each country, beginning with the British Isles:

England = 20,461

Scotland = 9,514

Wales = 1,713

Northern Ireland = 607

United Kingdom = 9,077

Ireland = 11,889

Total = 53, 261


Western Europe

Austria = 519

Belgium = 449

Czech Republic = 547

Denmark = 718

France = 2,883

Germany = 10,385

Italy = 2,968

Netherlands = 1,434

Norway = 1,137

Portugal = 670

Spain = 2,919

Sweden = 1,400

Switzerland = 1,519

Total = 27,548

The overall total for all these countries together, including the nations of the British Isles, is 80,809.

British Isles Proportion = 53,261/80,809 = 66%

Western Europe Proportion = 27,548/80,809 = 34%

Since my primary interest is R1b, I restricted myself to Western and Northern Europe and did not include Eastern and Southeastern Europe; but, honestly, I don't think including those regions would do much to reduce the overall preponderance of British samples in the Ancestral Origins database.

Germany has the highest representation of any non-British Isles western European nation, yet England alone has almost twice as many entries as Germany, and little Ireland has over 1,500 more entries than Germany.

I think it is essential to keep these figures in mind when considering the European origins of any haplogroup or subclade.

Obviously, we need a lot more samples from men of continental European origin.