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Sile
06-05-18, 20:12
These incidences of T belong to different branches of T, and are due to separated demographic events but have nothing to do with origin. To predict origin is most important the diversity.

You can see this diversity by looking into my phylogenetic tree work here:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png

I believe you should consider T1a2-CTS1848+ as a celtic marker especially since we have it appearing in Belgium and south Germany..........the Andulusi seems later , maybe celtic migration

Salento
06-05-18, 20:32
@Sile
Do you have any Info on Z19945?
We both have some ancient Illyrian (I think), and there’s not that many of us. Could it be that there’s the Haplogroup connection with them?

Sile
06-05-18, 21:03
@Sile
Do you have any Info on Z19945?
We both have some ancient Illyrian (I think), and there’s not that many of us. Could it be that there’s the Haplogroup connection with them?

https://s20.postimg.cc/rkwgdy1m5/sardi_T.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/p3kp6ohpl/)

These are ancient sardinian sample....second one is ours

All other T1a2 ancient I found are northern balkans or beyond

You are the closest to me from the south of europe, I have nobody else in southern italy or southern Balkans

Alpenjager
06-05-18, 21:35
https://s20.postimg.cc/rkwgdy1m5/sardi_T.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/p3kp6ohpl/)

These are ancient sardinian sample....second one is ours

All other T1a2 ancient I found are northern balkans or beyond

You are the closest to me from the south of europe, I have nobody else in southern italy or southern Balkans

Sile, they are not ancient sardinians but modern sardinian samples.

Salento
07-05-18, 21:11
CTS8862 - Z19945 - CTS1848
Some Geo Locations.10076
Now. I could theorize a migration.

Sile
07-05-18, 21:19
add reddick ............next to myself in markers
his story
My Reddicks are German in origin, having had the surname recorded as Radick upon arrival in Savannah, GA in 1737. Back in the Odenwald region of southwest Germany the name had been Rettich / Rettig and a century earlier the family was named Retgen. Rettich is German for the vegetable radish.
origins in Odenwald germany
.....................................
Do you have a cognome ...Benedetto ...from Toretto Italy ............mother German ..................


....................................
since z19945 formed in 1460BC ..........I would like to know how many steps are there between us

Salento
07-05-18, 21:52
Never mind. Got it.

Sile
08-05-18, 07:44
Never mind. Got it.

I see you are now in my group in ftdna T project.......but we differ by over 20 ...........we may have split apart on the creation of Z19945 circa 1460BC

Salento
08-05-18, 19:12
I see you are now in my group in ftdna T project.......but we differ by over 20 ...........we may have split apart on the creation of Z19945 circa 1460BC
Not disputing your assumptions,
Z19945 is 3100 years old, how do you know so precisely (1460BC) when we may have split apart. (80 Years after the creation)
STR value Differences maybe? Still ...
https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945/

Sile
08-05-18, 20:41
Not disputing your assumptions,
Z19945 is 3100 years old, how do you know so precisely (1460BC) when we may have split apart. (80 Years after the creation)
STR value Differences maybe? Still ...
https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945/
because it says 3100ybp

ybp = year before present
Before Present (BP) years is a time scale used mainly in geology and other scientific disciplines to specify when events occurred in the past. Because the "present" time changes, standard practice is to use 1 January 1950 as the commencement date of the age scale,

3100 years from the year 1950

Salento
09-05-18, 00:03
because it says 3100ybp

ybp = year before present
Before Present (BP) years is a time scale used mainly in geology and other scientific disciplines to specify when events occurred in the past. Because the "present" time changes, standard practice is to use 1 January 1950 as the commencement date of the age scale,

3100 years from the year 1950
I was referring to something else, but this is also good to Know.
I guess we add 68 Years for YBP.
Thank You.

Salento
01-06-18, 15:31
It doesn’t matter.

Sile
09-07-18, 07:48
This paper
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692336/
.
looking at Albanians from Brescia ......of which there is 83 in number are split as
.
E1B1B1 = 27
J2 = 14
K = 12 ..........( 9 x T ydna and 3 x L ydna )
R1 = 11
I = 10
J1 = 4
H1 = 2
P = 2
F = 1
.
.
all T with DYS448 = 20 are matching Eastern European peoples ( Ukrainians and Belarus usually ) …..there are 5 of these easterners and 2 are Western Europeans ( Italians and Portuguese usually)
.
all T with DYS635 = 23 are matching middle-east people and/or Portuguese

Sile
26-07-18, 07:23
an interesting read
.
http://www.genlinginterface.com/updates/update-for-l-m20-and-t-m184/

5.11.5. Conclusions.
LT-L298 has not received much attention because L-M20 and T-M184 generally attain
a low frequency among the surveyed populations. Accordingly, the distribution of internal
variation within LT-L298 is poorly understood because researchers generally devote more
time to unraveling the phylogeny of high frequency mutations. More data would be helpful.
For example, future exploration of LT-L298 variations should examine the rare L2-L595
mutation in Europe. Is this a Paleolithic or Neolithic relic?

Another problem with deciphering LT-L298 variation is also associated with LR-M9 ( K-M9 )
mutations as a whole, and with this, how to classify the phylogeny of this paragroup.

TL442
26-07-18, 07:30
Hi
and am T as well as well... TL442. Grandfather was born in Sciacca Sicily ... came to America as a child... I am also currently living in Australia but was born in New York. DNA moves around a lot faster in modern times.

TL442
26-07-18, 07:39
Hi
and am T as well as well... TL446. Grandfather was born in Sciacca Sicily ... came to America as a child... I am also currently living in Australia but was born in New York. DNA moves around a lot faster in modern times.
I made a typo I am TL 446 hence my user name is wrong LOL

Sile
26-07-18, 22:01
I made a typo I am TL 446 hence my user name is wrong LOL

you mean
T-L446
which is the T1a2 branch

Sile
01-08-18, 21:49
an interesting read
.
http://www.genlinginterface.com/updates/update-for-l-m20-and-t-m184/

5.11.5. Conclusions.
LT-L298 has not received much attention because L-M20 and T-M184 generally attain
a low frequency among the surveyed populations. Accordingly, the distribution of internal
variation within LT-L298 is poorly understood because researchers generally devote more
time to unraveling the phylogeny of high frequency mutations. More data would be helpful.
For example, future exploration of LT-L298 variations should examine the rare L2-L595
mutation in Europe. Is this a Paleolithic or Neolithic relic?

Another problem with deciphering LT-L298 variation is also associated with LR-M9 ( K-M9 )
mutations as a whole, and with this, how to classify the phylogeny of this paragroup.

In regards to this .........someone should try to see if the T-M184 and the L-M20 have similar matching places around the world ...........I did a quick check on Italy and there are very many places/towns/regions that these to haplogroups live together

Sile
09-11-18, 21:56
for what it is worth
https://authenticgathazoroastrianism.org/2018/01/18/magi-the-ancient-zoroastrian-hereditary-priesthood-and-haplogroups-i-m170-i-p215-and-haplogroup-t1a2/
.
While the original I haplogroups appear to go back to the Magis of Zarathustra and BMAC culture, the latter T1a2 haplogroup must hail back to the Median Magi from the West. T1a2 or (T L131) has been found as far East as the Volga-Ural region of Russia and Xinjiang in north-west China. T1a2 penetrated into the Pontic-Caspian Steppe of Eurasia during the Neolithic, and became integrated to the indigenous R1a peoples (Proto Indo Iranians) before their expansion to Central Asia during the Bronze Age.
about 20% to 25% percent Of Iranian mobeds or “Zoroastrian priests” belong to T1a. But the great majority 75%-80% belong to I* to I2*. That is Haplogroups I M170 and I P215 respectively. The closest population group to Iranian Zoroastrians are the Bakhtiaris. The Bakhtiaris likewise show a high percentage of Haplgroups G, T1a as well as I M170.

Salento
10-11-18, 00:18
@Sile
We see more and more people lately pushing biased agenda related conclusions, and wishful thinking Religious Book outcomes.
Many are laughable and irritating at the same time. lol
Too Bad. :)

Sile
13-11-18, 20:08
@Sile
We see more and more people lately pushing biased agenda related conclusions, and wishful thinking Religious Book outcomes.
Many are laughable and irritating at the same time. lol
Too Bad. :)
like the Parsi corsicans with T-M184
.
I cannot read french
http://www.parsi-corsica.com/origine.html

Sile
03-02-19, 19:47
3 albanians with T1a I recently found....not related to me, though one is Z19945 .............I keep asking if he is a Petrov from Bulgaria which matches me , but I continually get no reply.
he is from Kosovo , part of Hoti clan ..........no other info
.
next, T1a1 from Gjakova region ......no other info
.
lastly, T1a2-CTS0933, from Vlore, coastal Abania, came from Corfu and stated where originally from western crete
.
I will try to get more info

Emathia
08-05-19, 22:47
Actually there are 4 of us in the Albanian project. Two samples T-CTS933 and two T-CTS8862. I am the one from Gjakova-Kosovo, terminal SNP CTS933.

Salento
08-05-19, 23:56
Actually there are 4 of us in the Albanian project. Two samples T-CTS933 and two T-CTS8862. I am the one from Gjakova-Kosovo, terminal SNP CTS933.
Welcome Emathia.
So what you're saying is that the Z19945 individual mentioned above is not part of your project, and to look somewhere else for his origins.

Emathia
09-05-19, 00:14
Last name Petrov is probably from Bulgarian project.

td120
09-05-19, 00:40
There is a Petrov, T1a2 in the Bulgarian project.
Google Bulgarian Dna ftdna results

torzio
10-05-19, 23:27
There is a Petrov, T1a2 in the Bulgarian project.
Google Bulgarian Dna ftdna results
There are 5 bulgarians on this site who are T1a haplogroup, what is the ID of Petrov?

td120
11-05-19, 15:07
The only name with cyrillic letters...

torzio
12-05-19, 19:52
Thank you
One is a macedonian that went to Bulgaria , as stated ...............he too looks like T1a2 branch

Yaan
12-05-19, 20:32
Thank you
One is a macedonian that went to Bulgaria , as stated ...............he too looks like T1a2 branch

Just to clarify he is Bulgarian from a region called Macedonia, !

td120
13-05-19, 02:26
If you google the Bulgarian DNA results at FTDNA you'll bump into the map of most distant ancestors of the participants (among them are the T-hg's too). A great part will show origins outside the present political map of the country...

torzio
13-05-19, 02:48
Hapogroup T has been in bulgaria since neolithic period, can we confirm if any of these 5 ones in the project are slavic or non-slavic in origin ?

Salento
13-05-19, 02:56
If you google the Bulgarian DNA results at FTDNA you'll bump into the map of most distant ancestors of the participants (among them are the T-hg's too). A great part will show origins outside the present political map of the country...

Don’t blame us. :)
In this thread alone I counted 3 different Macedonias.
even Alexander would get confused.

td120
13-05-19, 04:01
yup...

Torzio, them T's are ethnic Bulgarians . Autosomally not very different than other Bulgarians participating in the project .Minority groups are listed in separate graphs.
There are some among the others with non-Bulgarian parents ,but very few (half Russian, American etc.). Check out the map, will give you a better idea.

torzio
13-05-19, 07:18
td120
thankyou

Are they ancient bulgars that came from the north caucasus or could they be Avars or mabe even Gepid/Goths ?

Yaan
13-05-19, 19:31
If you google the Bulgarian DNA results at FTDNA you'll bump into the map of most distant ancestors of the participants (among them are the T-hg's too). A great part will show origins outside the present political map of the country...
So who is talking about maps? People who identified and feel Bulgarian lived in what is today Turkey, Greece, North Macedonia,Serbia, Romania etc. Just like with Turks, Hungarians,Germans, Poles we are b y no means restricted into what is today Bulgaria. Anyways all T's in our Project listed in the main group are Bulgarians, there are separate categories for Turks ,others and even Pomaks. People from Bulgaria are not always Bulgarians, some are Gypsies and Turks and others, and Bulgarians often have roots in North Macedonia, Greece and European Turkey.
Just like Somalian from Stockholm is not Swedish he is Somalian and a guy with roots in Germany born in New York is not having direct line Native American, but German.

torzio
13-05-19, 19:58
So who is talking about maps? People who identified and feel Bulgarian lived in what is today Turkey, Greece, North Macedonia,Serbia, Romania etc. Just like with Turks, Hungarians,Germans, Poles we are b y no means restricted into what is today Bulgaria. Anyways all T's in our Project listed in the main group are Bulgarians, there are separate categories for Turks ,others and even Pomaks. People from Bulgaria are not always Bulgarians, some are Gypsies and Turks and others, and Bulgarians often have roots in North Macedonia, Greece and European Turkey.
Just like Somalian from Stockholm is not Swedish he is Somalian and a guy with roots in Germany born in New York is not having direct line Native American, but German.

Are these T's bulgars from the caucasus of ancient thracians ?

Yaan
13-05-19, 20:05
Are these T's bulgars from the caucasus of ancient thracians ?
They are Bulgarians. When there are tests of ancient Bulgars and Thrachians we can compare with modern people :)

torzio
05-01-20, 18:15
apparently my sample did not qualify in this site stringent 5 tests

https://i.postimg.cc/FHYCZSbv/veneto-L131.png (https://postimg.cc/Yvwx2hyD)

torzio
16-01-20, 04:09
Gubina paper 2012 for kazaks

1/30 of T1a found = 3.33% in Altai Kazaks

19/49 of T1a found = 39% in Kosh Kazaks

torzio
17-02-20, 17:39
@salento

in the latest ftdna branch split ...they have this

https://i.postimg.cc/KvGH3nbC/ftda-z19945.png

ft62750 are all ukraines, belarussians ............is this what you referred to many months ago ?
(https://postimages.org/)

Salento
17-02-20, 19:28
@salento

in the latest ftdna branch split ...they have this

https://i.postimg.cc/KvGH3nbC/ftda-z19945.png

ft62750 are all ukraines, belarussians ............is this what you referred to many months ago ?
(https://postimages.org/)

It’s unlikely, FT62750 is new to me, but many pages00113 were Ashkenazy from that general area.

torzio
19-02-20, 05:16
It’s unlikely, FT62750 is new to me, but many pages00113 were Ashkenazy from that general area.

thanks

BTW...they moved us around in ftdna T project......only person in that group which matches me in ftdna is Mr. Hoff

I have recently spoken to new T person name Bartosiak who has T-Z19945 .........I think he is a polish-american or a Slowian ( scythian-slav ) if such a thing exists, i am unsure


The more and more I check my line , the more I see a non-anatolian passage into Europe

Salento
19-02-20, 06:12
thanks

BTW...they moved us around in ftdna T project......only person in that group which matches me in ftdna is Mr. Hoff

I have recently spoken to new T person name Bartosiak who has T-Z19945 .........I think he is a polish-american or a Slowian ( scythian-slav ) if such a thing exists, i am unsure


The more and more I check my line , the more I see a non-anatolian passage into Europe

In our group you’re right under me, I don't know if it means anything, or if it's just a coincidence.

torzio
19-02-20, 06:46
In our group you’re right under me, I don't know if it means anything, or if it's just a coincidence.

it means you rule me ...as I am below you


Spoke to the Pole , he has done BigY and is emailing Gareth

torzio
19-02-20, 17:54
In our group you’re right under me, I don't know if it means anything, or if it's just a coincidence.

We do not match in Ftdna ..................I do not know why

nor do I match with Benningfield from Kentucky
nor
the Montenegrian just above him

I am 1 step from Hoff ..........which is useless to me as 1 step could be 2000 years

I have spoken to Lee and his ancestors have always been from York England

and the Irish person is also 1 step from me in ftdna but is a distant relative in yfull

IN18012 ...I was told is a connecicut family ............either surname frost or coleman, but I could be wrong

N184890 .....could be associated with Lee

the Iraqi I was told is from Mosul


In yfull..............brooks and curtiss are my direct matches ........which confuses me on why ftdna separated us ...........there is clearly a difference between ftdna and yfull in terms of matching


It is like in ftdna has me as a 3rd cousin name of Cristina Tax ( who has ydna of T ) of the netherlands .............no idea where they get 3rd cousin from

torzio
02-03-20, 01:06
apparently my sample did not qualify in this site stringent 5 tests

https://i.postimg.cc/FHYCZSbv/veneto-L131.png (https://postimg.cc/Yvwx2hyD)

I do not know where ftdna are going with Big-y tree for Z19945

I now get under Z19945 branch

my line ....plain Z19945 with 33 private variants ?
CTS1848 which I am negative for
Pages00113 which I am negative for
FT62750 which I am negative for
BY64684 which I am negative for

It seems Z19945 is a major snp in the T-L131 branch

torzio
04-03-20, 05:46
@ salento

Yfull just placed the polish flag on that new T-Z19945
gives him these snp so far

CTS10538, CTS9984, CTS8862, Z19944, Z19953, BY143483, Z19945, Z19946, PH3117, Y26649

says he is from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Pomeranian_Voivodeship

actually below is the spot
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Pomeranian_Voivodeship)https://www.britannica.com/place/Zachodniopomorskie


damn ...ysearch ...........I had a another person with T-Z19945 from that land .................pity ftdna , closed it
(https://www.britannica.com/place/Zachodniopomorskie)

Salento
04-03-20, 06:39
probably unrelated, but ...

I heard stories of ww2 Italian soldiers captured/injured in Poland,

after the war ended some were forced to stay there,

eventually many got married (although some of them were already married in Italy)

Many were declared Fallen or Missing in action by the Italian Government.

All this came to light in the early ‘90s, when all of a sudden they came back to Italy with their entire families.

torzio
04-03-20, 06:53
probably unrelated, but ...

I heard stories of ww2 Italian soldiers captured/injured in Poland,

after the war ended some were forced to stay there,

eventually many got married (although some of them were already married in Italy)

Many were declared Fallen or Missing in action by the Italian Government.

All this came to light in the early ‘90, when all of a sudden they came back to Italy with their entire families.

not to say his origins are from there ..............but he comes from Old Prusi lands ( not prussians ) ....but West-balts ethnicity , ancient Warmians etc.....fought crusaders in the 13th century because they where pagans .........crusaders came there only from saxons and thuringians

for what it is worth

https://web.archive.org/web/20120204202555/http://www.vaidilute.com/books/gimbutas/gimbutas-01.html

torzio
11-03-20, 18:25
all ancient T samples found so far

https://i.postimg.cc/1XYZR9QK/all-ancient-T-early-2020.png (https://postimg.cc/fSXPBQk3)

Salento
12-03-20, 00:07
some of my dod k12 distances with some y Ts



9.82862147
R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia





10.18438020
Szolad36





11.55739590
R850_Iron_Age_Ardea





12.80411262
R1543_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese





24.88493118
ANI152_Varna





25.80391056
I0795_KAR6_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany_5207-5070_calBCE

torzio
05-05-20, 19:56
Another T1a2-CTS8862 found in Kosovo-Bosnia area ...............no relation with myself ..............matches a russian living in Macedonia who originally came via east of moscow