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torzio
02-11-21, 05:54
Wow thats nice, ardea were basically in rome before rome existed? It makes sense why T isnt rare in italy unlike rest of europe, seems to have a hotspot in and around rome
there are 3 x T ydna from neolithic central Germany .................another 2 x T in neolithic bulgaria ..............plus a new T neolithic sample found a month or so ago in czech lands
my conclusion ...............T ydna are early ( ancient ) pure hunters..........very early ydna in europe......most probably hunting the red deer in northern Germany

Salento
03-11-21, 23:24
… Bronze-Age England Migration, 803 samples (Zero y T).
There are y T Neolithic and Iron-Age samples, but none in the Bronze Age?
… from the Roman paper:

… “The T1a haplogroup, although absent in our samples prior to Iron Age, has previously been found in early farmers in Bulgaria (5,800-5,400 calBCE) and Germany (5,500-4,850 BCE)” …

https://www.science.org/action/downloadSupplement?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.aay6826&file=aay6826_antonio_sm.pdf

torzio
04-11-21, 01:33
In the T project ( modern ) ..............
after many tests , these below seem unique

there is a tested Y37 ..........who is K-M9 and is a Kurdish Iraqi ....................I wonder why they placed it in the T ydna ............could have also went with R ydna, or N, O, P, M, S, L

there is also a tested Y67 .............T-M184 from East Germany

and last
T-PH110 from Black sea Georgia ..................we now have Germany, Armenia and Bhutan and Georgia

TaktikatEMalet
04-11-21, 16:51
… Bronze-Age England Migration, 803 samples (Zero y T).
There are y T Neolithic and Iron-Age samples, but none in the Bronze Age?
… from the Roman paper:
… “The T1a haplogroup, although absent in our samples prior to Iron Age, has previously been found in early farmers in Bulgaria (5,800-5,400 calBCE) and Germany (5,500-4,850 BCE)” …
https://www.science.org/action/downloadSupplement?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.aay6826&file=a
ay6826_antonio_sm.pdf
This means that most T1a found in england now was likely from roman settlement, though it is still rare

According to torzio T was near Rome prior to Roman empire. So it would have been assimilated and moved with the roman conquests. Does anyone know how common T1a is in spain and portugal?

torzio
05-11-21, 00:00
This means that most T1a found in england now was likely from roman settlement, though it is still rare

According to torzio T was near Rome prior to Roman empire. So it would have been assimilated and moved with the roman conquests. Does anyone know how common T1a is in spain and portugal?

They came via illyrian or alpine ( augustus conquered the alps circa 15BC , the last place in modern italy to become Roman colony ) subjects


Italy has about 4% ...similar with Spain, Portugal, Germany, Austria, France and Belgium

check this site out for T ydna ..............I have not checked for more than a year...not sure if maciano updated T ydna

Salento
05-11-21, 01:37
@Torzio …maybe you’re confusing threads, the Ardea sample is 100s of years older than Augustus, … maybe R850 went to school with Romulus' kids :)

Salento
05-11-21, 04:34
This means that most T1a found in england now was likely from roman settlement, though it is still rare
According to torzio T was near Rome prior to Roman empire. So it would have been assimilated and moved with the roman conquests. Does anyone know how common T1a is in spain and portugal?
They didn't find BA T samples, but it doesn't mean they weren't there.
Surely more y T were brought to England by Rome and then by the Vikings (VK398 Sweden, Skara).

Out of 1000s of Ancient samples, only about forty plus are y T, … they’re rare and not easily found, …though we have Neolithics and Iron-Age y T samples, … I assume they were also present in the Bronze-Age.

torzio
05-11-21, 17:04
@Torzio …maybe you’re confusing threads, the Ardea sample is 100s of years older than Augustus, … maybe R850 went to school with Romulus' kids :)


I keep forgetting about this etruscan from the Rutuli tribe in modern Lazio region :bigsmile:

Salento
05-11-21, 18:37
I keep forgetting about this etruscan from the Rutuli tribe in modern Lazio region :bigsmile:

Ardea: … “The area was once the main urban center of the Rutuli, a population belonging to the "Latin lineage" … :)

https://www.science.org/action/downloadSupplement?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.aay6826&file=aay6826_antonio_sm.pdf&

TaktikatEMalet
05-11-21, 20:38
They came via illyrian or alpine ( augustus conquered the alps circa 15BC , the last place in modern italy to become Roman colony ) subjects
Italy has about 4% ...similar with Spain, Portugal, Germany, Austria, France and Belgium
check this site out for T ydna ..............I have not checked for more than a year...not sure if maciano updated T ydna

Difficult to link t1a with illyrians, the spread doesnt seem to suggest it. Like salento mentioned t1a is linked to latin people, though etruscan may be possible? T1a doesnt seem like an indo european line and most people say etruscans didnt speak a european language

torzio
05-11-21, 22:35
Difficult to link t1a with illyrians, the spread doesnt seem to suggest it. Like salento mentioned t1a is linked to latin people, though etruscan may be possible? T1a doesnt seem like an indo european line and most people say etruscans didnt speak a european language

not indo-european .............then all its brothers are not as well

https://i.postimg.cc/2SQJzjn2/k-m9.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
07-11-21, 04:29
the only ancient T samples so far in YFull

https://i.postimg.cc/Kck4Sr5Z/y-full-ancient-T.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
07-11-21, 17:49
I only see 2 x T ydna in the upcoming celtic paper .....so far

T1a1-Z709

T1a1 -Y11151

torzio
08-11-21, 17:33
the only ancient T samples so far in YFull

https://i.postimg.cc/Kck4Sr5Z/y-full-ancient-T.png (https://postimages.org/)

I asked yfull if they would place the following ancient T

CL23

also

the 2 x Bulgarian Neolitihic samples from Malek

and

Golden man

torzio
11-11-21, 07:09
I only see 2 x T ydna in the upcoming celtic paper .....so far
T1a1-Z709
T1a1 -Y11151


I14837:Result (-33.3% 2 -1 +1): T-Y180921

I13751:Result (-33.3% 2 -1 +1): T-FGC63786

Salento
12-11-21, 04:32
I14837:Result (-33.3% 2 -1 +1): T-Y180921
I13751:Result (-33.3% 2 -1 +1): T-FGC63786

… K12b Coordinates.
… I am not convinced that they are y T
… I didn't get the y results I expected. :)



I13751_Dodecad_K12b,12.50,0.00,0.99,0.05,36.65,41. 95,0.70,0.13,0.00,0.00,5.73,1.29
I14837_Dodecad_K12b,9.90,0.16,0.76,0.00,39.50,44.3 5,0.00,0.04,0.27,0.00,4.55,0.48

torzio
12-11-21, 07:45
… K12b Coordinates.
… I am not convinced that they are y T
… I didn't get the y results I expected. :)



I13751_Dodecad_K12b,12.50,0.00,0.99,0.05,36.65,41. 95,0.70,0.13,0.00,0.00,5.73,1.29
I14837_Dodecad_K12b,9.90,0.16,0.76,0.00,39.50,44.3 5,0.00,0.04,0.27,0.00,4.55,0.48






Thats whats the paper states .................what makes you think it is not?

top one comes from Hittite old capital area of konya Turkey in origin

second one...is northern Armenian in origin

torzio
12-11-21, 07:47
Distance to: Torziok12b
22.29031853 I13751_Dodecad_K12b
24.37320455 I14837_Dodecad_K12b

torzio
12-11-21, 23:19
questions from the T project team
I started to order tests for kit 327232 belonging to the Kruger lineage.
The origin of this Kruger lineage is known to be "Germany", but still is not confirmed which German region. Two possible places are west Germany and Danzig. A third possibility is Bessarabian Germans.

The line is an ancient line

Salento
13-11-21, 02:09
Thats whats the paper states .................what makes you think it is not?
top one comes from Hittite old capital area of konya Turkey in origin
second one...is northern Armenian in origin

You saw the paper and I didn’t, … I won’t challenge it, I’ll go with the flow, but I’m skeptical of it !

torzio
13-11-21, 02:20
You saw the paper and I didn’t, … I won’t challenge it, I’ll go with the flow, but I’m skeptical of it !

I doubt these T1a1 as well .............though the Hittites did come from modern armenia/georgia area before entering Anatolia/Asia Minor


BTW....there is chit chat that our T1a2 in on the north side of the black sea in origin ( proto-scyhians )................I will get more information

Salento
24-11-21, 16:29
one-to-one - S vs CL23 and SZ36

… at 60 SNPs (as for MTA) minimum segments threshold size, … input cM as needed as to get lowest results:

https://i.imgur.com/szvhFxj.jpg

Salento
24-11-21, 16:42
1-to-1 … 60 SNPs, cM as needed.

S vs Latin R850 - Romans R120 and R1543

https://i.imgur.com/YY8vdwN.jpg

Salento
24-11-21, 16:51
One-to-One … 60 SNPs, cM as needed

… S vs VK17 and VK398:

https://i.imgur.com/KmdMqht.jpg

torzio
24-11-21, 22:30
one-to-one - S vs CL23 and SZ36

… at 60 SNPs (as for MTA) minimum segments threshold size, … input cM as needed as to get lowest results:

https://i.imgur.com/szvhFxj.jpg


what are we doing here ?

Salento
25-11-21, 00:26
what are we doing here ?

I’m using MTA Deep Dive settings (60 SNPs) on GedMatch One-to-One, and trying to get a “minimum” result:

… on GedMatch “One-to-One Autosomal DNA Comparison”, input the Ancient Kit ID and Yours,

… Write 60 where it says: “SNP window size threshold. Leave blank for default to vary dynamically between 200-400”,

… run it! … if no results go back and Write 6 where it says: “Minimum segment cM size to be included in total: (Must be at least 3 cm. Leave blank for default value = 7)”,

… run it again, … if no results go back and change it to 5, … if no results go back and lower to 4 or 3 and run it,

… if still no results go back, and add a 3 where it says: “Size (in SNPs) of Mismatch-Bunching limit. (Leave blank for default mismatch eval window / 2)” and run it again.

… good luck :) lol

… for example: me vs R1 … see the settings in the red squares that I had to use to get results with the 60 SNPs threshold.

https://i.imgur.com/bOSwwa3.jpg

torzio
25-11-21, 00:49
I’m using MTA Deep Dive settings (60 SNPs) on GedMatch One-to-One, and trying to get a “minimum” result:

… on GedMatch “One-to-One Autosomal DNA Comparison”, input the Ancient Kit ID and Yours,

… Write 60 where it says: “SNP window size threshold. Leave blank for default to vary dynamically between 200-400”,

… run it! … if no results go back and Write 6 where it says: “Minimum segment cM size to be included in total: (Must be at least 3 cm. Leave blank for default value = 7)”,

… run it again, … if no results go back and change it to 5, … if no results go back and lower to 4 or 3 and run it,

… if still no results go back, and add a 3 where it says: “Size (in SNPs) of Mismatch-Bunching limit. (Leave blank for default mismatch eval window / 2)” and run it again.

… good luck :) lol

… for example: me vs R1 … see the settings in the red squares that I had to use to get results with the 60 SNPs threshold.

https://i.imgur.com/bOSwwa3.jpg

for myself .v. R1
all chr used except 3, 6, 9 and 12

Largest segment = 6.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 123.3cM (3.437 Pct)

33 shared segments found for this comparison.

648286 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.59 Pct SNPs are full identical

torzio
25-11-21, 00:52
on min segment size of 5 ....i only get
Chr B37 Start Pos'n B37 End Pos'n Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
19 .......7,663,317 ....... 9,939,831 .....6.5 .....560

torzio
25-11-21, 02:37
@salento

you are closer than I for R1 ..........is this the same for MTA ?

I stated a while ago......looks like we came via dalmatia/liburnia area .........to Marche .....your line went south ( Picene and Daunian) and my line went north

something like SNP tracker


https://i.postimg.cc/63MGy7yb/R1-nov2021.png (https://postimg.cc/k6t5HgNW)

Salento
25-11-21, 04:11
@salento
you are closer than I for R1 ..........is this the same for MTA ?
I stated a while ago......looks like we came via dalmatia/liburnia area .........to Marche .....your line went south ( Picene and Daunian) and my line went north
something like SNP tracker
https://i.postimg.cc/63MGy7yb/R1-nov2021.png (https://postimg.cc/k6t5HgNW)

… not on MTA anymore, you’re way closer to R1 than me, …

…though I do get the “Modern” MyHeritage Chieti (Abruzzo) Genetic Group (Martinsicuro is in Abruzzo)

https://i.imgur.com/Kr9a3nM.jpg

Salento
25-11-21, 04:32
… my Lecce Genetic Group has Marche (and Rome) in 1600 - 1650 … this genetic group is hundreds of years old, … maybe it’s a clue indicating a common genetic link of Piceni and Iapigi (Daunians - Peuceti - Messapi)
I Think :)


https://i.imgur.com/rLsL2BF.jpg

torzio
25-11-21, 17:40
… my Lecce Genetic Group has Marche (and Rome) in 1600 - 1650 … this genetic group is hundreds of years old, … maybe it’s a clue indicating a common genetic link of Piceni and Iapigi (Daunians - Peuceti - Messapi)
I Think :)


https://i.imgur.com/rLsL2BF.jpg

this is my new #1 , replacing sample R1 .................but R1 has double the SNP's

https://i.postimg.cc/mDdFM9Qh/copper-hungraria.png (https://postimg.cc/zbgBYV21)

Salento
24-12-21, 06:54
​one-to-one R120 (Late Antiquity Roman) vs R850 (Ardea Latin) and 1543 (Imperial Roman)

https://i.imgur.com/QdYbkHC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/izJFjC6.jpg

torzio
01-05-22, 03:22
It seems many are confused with which T it belongs to which branch
Currently
T1a1
T1a2
T1a3
T-PH110
are the branches
.................................
But some scientific testers use
T1a1a for T1a1
T1a1b for T1a2
T1a2a for T1a3


in the distant past 2011 to 2014 it was as the map below states
T2 = T1a1 branch

T3 = T1a2 branch

https://i.postimg.cc/g0yHnCH5/old-T-ydna.png (https://postimg.cc/XZJCPDhc)

Salento
09-06-22, 03:13
Distance to:
DER031


8.70873699
Kars537_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany


10.63597198
Kar6_I0795_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany


12.86849253
ANI152_Varna_Golden_King_Eneolithic


15.31279530
kar16a_I0797_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany





Dodecad K12b:



DER031,0,0,0.95,0,54.58,0,0,0,10.37,0,33.76,0.35
ANI152_Varna_Golden_King_Eneolithic,0,0,0,7.78,44. 92,3.01,0,0,11.36,0,32.93,0
R850_Ardea_Latin,7.3,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.4 3,14.77,0,40.1,0
R120_Late_Antiquity_Rome,5.11,0.47,2.1,0,33.79,17. 98,0,1.11,11.27,0,27.96,0.21
R1543_Imperial_Rome,8.92,0,5.86,0,21.15,9.11,0.41, 0.36,14.95,0,38.92,0.31
CL23_Collegno_Italy_Longobard_Kingdom,6,1.15,3.48, 0,36.14,24.04,0.16,0.59,7.04,0,21.33,0.07
SZ36_Longobard_Migration_Hungary,5.31,0,2.69,0,32. 16,22.1,0.15,0,9.96,0,27.22,0.41
I3403_Skeleton_Lake_Traveler_Modern,4.91,0,1.54,0. 70,25.57,17.55,0.36,0.48,11.88,0,37,0
I4055_SE_Iberia_300AD,6.34,0.29,11.67,0,35.87,20.8 8,0,3.68,15.38,0.36,5.46,0.06
Kars537_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany,0,0,3.81,0.14,50.9 0,0,0,0.68,15.71,0,28.76,0
Kar6_I0795_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany,0,0,2.60,0,45.4 7,0,0,0,14.99,0,36.19,0.75
kar16a_I0797_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany,0,0.45,3.45,0 ,59.31,0,0,0.53,15.77,0,20.49,0
VK17_Viking_Russia_Ladoga,2.47,2.89,0.05,0.68,28.2 3,60.27,0,0,0.06,0,3.77,1.58
VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara,8.38,2.47,0.53,0,35.05,4 1.08,0,0,0.48,0,9.88,2.14
I0700_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic,0,0,2. 21,0.37,42.93,36.24,0,0,7.78,0.22,9.65,0.61
I1108_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic,0,0,2. 08,1.14,49.17,30.37,0,0,6.38,0,10.05,0.81
KOB003_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia,0,0,3.81,0,53.94,16. 35,0,0,8.50,0,17.40,0
KOB007_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia,0,0,0,0,57.20,17.89, 0,2.49,6.68,0,15.74,0

torzio
09-06-22, 05:33
Distance to: Torziok12b
4.82277928 CL23_Collegno_Italy_Longobard_Kingdom
10.29711610 SZ36_Longobard_Migration_Hungary
13.60258064 R120_Late_Antiquity_Rome
17.30128608 I0700_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic
18.43716627 VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara
18.84040870 I1108_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic
22.17713011 I4055_SE_Iberia_300AD
22.56245332 I3403_Skeleton_Lake_Traveler_Modern
23.18973911 KOB003_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia
25.41673858 KOB007_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia
31.09767515 R850_Ardea_Latin
31.47556195 ANI152_Varna_Golden_King_Eneolithic
31.51982392 R1543_Imperial_Rome
34.91681543 Kars537_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany
35.19496271 Kar6_I0795_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany
36.99720665 DER031
38.27756523 VK17_Viking_Russia_Ladoga
38.50644881 kar16a_I0797_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany



Target: Torziok12b
Distance: 1.8050% / 1.80501612
50.6 SZ36_Longobard_Migration_Hungary
37.6 VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara
6.3 DER031
2.9 CL23_Collegno_Italy_Longobard_Kingdom
2.6 KOB007_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia

torzio
09-06-22, 05:35
Interesting.......my 1st cousin, once removed from Trentino

Target: TrentinoCles
Distance: 1.8336% / 1.83361321
34.4 DER031
32.2 VK17_Viking_Russia_Ladoga
32.0 I3403_Skeleton_Lake_Traveler_Modern
1.4 VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara



Distance to: TrentinoCles
6.50109222 CL23_Collegno_Italy_Longobard_Kingdom
7.97467241 SZ36_Longobard_Migration_Hungary
10.61070214 R120_Late_Antiquity_Rome
19.11735599 I3403_Skeleton_Lake_Traveler_Modern
20.18327278 I0700_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic
20.54872259 I1108_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic
21.75104135 KOB003_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia
23.55030998 VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara
24.31628261 KOB007_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia
25.64338316 I4055_SE_Iberia_300AD
27.11581826 ANI152_Varna_Golden_King_Eneolithic
28.26651730 R850_Ardea_Latin
29.12351799 R1543_Imperial_Rome
30.80966082 Kar6_I0795_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany
31.43546723 Kars537_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany
32.88626917 DER031
36.19962431 kar16a_I0797_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany
42.12987301 VK17_Viking_Russia_Ladoga

torzio
09-07-22, 17:21
@Salento

Matt Verona ( Vironet line )

Shared info on his close matches which I do not have................maybe you have them

Jason LaBenne ( from the Bear man you linked a while ago ) ...............Hubert LaBenne b.1629 Tilleur , Belgium

John Zeno ...................Domenico Ziino , Messina Italy

Kenneth Wike ...............Germany

torzio
09-07-22, 17:22
All above are T1a2 ydna branch

Salento
06-08-22, 06:00
T-SK1480 and Parent still overlap, … same place for 2000 years, … They loved Italy and the Roman Empire :)

https://i.imgur.com/pMyenEb.jpg

torzio
06-08-22, 06:41
T-SK1480 and Parent still overlap, … same place for 2000 years, … They loved Italy and the Roman Empire :)
https://i.imgur.com/pMyenEb.jpg
2000 years?
Are you saying the roman invasions of the Alps anywhere from 15BC to 35AD is where our ancestors came from , captured and enslaved in Rome?

Salento
06-08-22, 07:36
2000 years?
Are you saying the roman invasions of the Alps anywhere from 15BC to 35AD is where our ancestors came from , captured and enslaved in Rome?

I only said what the map shows!
… surely, in 15BC our ancestors were allies of the Romans, and rewarded with a beautiful Villa in Tuscany, … better climate than the Alps :grin:

torzio
06-08-22, 18:49
I only said what the map shows!
… surely, in 15BC our ancestors were allies of the Romans, and rewarded with a beautiful Villa in Tuscany, … better climate than the Alps :grin:


looking at the map you presented ..............we fit in a map in the link somwhere

https://second.wiki/wiki/augusteische_alpenfeldzc3bcge

Salento
09-08-22, 05:16
Deleted … …

Salento
12-08-22, 00:27
yfull dates BY143483 to 2998 ybp, that’s 1048 BC … some members may have been in Italy since then, and eventually mutating into SK1480.

https://i.imgur.com/WYEcAsD.jpg

… from snptracker:
https://i.imgur.com/pMyenEb.jpg

torzio
12-08-22, 00:47
yfull dates BY143483 to 2998 ybp, that’s 1048 BC … some members may have been in Italy since then, and eventually mutating into SK1480.

https://i.imgur.com/WYEcAsD.jpg

… from snptracker:
https://i.imgur.com/pMyenEb.jpg


is the ybp still the year 1950 ?

or you stating this year?

Salento
12-08-22, 01:05
is the ybp still the year 1950 ?
or you stating this year?
yes, bp is the year 1950, usually.

1950 - 2998 = -1048 or 1048 BC

Salento
12-08-22, 03:52
ybp relates to radiocarbon dating, … the resulting dates are an approximation, … there’s not need to tweak them.

I see sites adding / subtracting 50 years to the ybp converted results, … waist of time.

Salento
14-08-22, 18:01
August 2022 - The Anglo-Saxon migration and formation of the Early English Gene pool

I3011 - UK, Lincolnshire, Lincoln, Lincoln Castle
y T1a1a1b2b2b1a
mt H1a3



I3011_Early-Medieval_UK_Lincoln-Castle_Dod_K12b,8.36,1.05,0,0,43.18,29.04,1.46,0.1 2,4.78,0,11.06,0.97


https://i.imgur.com/rtud4sF.gif

https://i.imgur.com/zQCsX6F.gif

... "The history of the British Isles and Ireland is characterized by multiple periods of major cultural change, including the influential transformation after the end of Roman rule, which precipitated shifts in language, settlement patterns and material culture. The extent to which migration from continental Europe mediated these transitions is a matter of long-standing debate. Here we study genome-wide ancient DNA from 460 medieval northwestern Europeans – including 278 individuals from England – alongside archaeological data, to infer contemporary population dynamics. We identify a substantial increase of continental northern European ancestry in early medieval England, which is closely related to the early medieval and present-day inhabitants of Germany and Denmark, implying large-scale substantial migration across the North Sea into Britain during the Early Middle Ages. As a result, the individuals we analysed from eastern England derived up to 76% of their ancestry from the continental North Sea zone, albeit with substantial regional variation and heterogeneity within sites. We show that women with immigrant ancestry were more often furnished with grave goods than women with local ancestry, whereas men with weapons were as likely as not to be of immigrant ancestry. A comparison with present-day Britain indicates that subsequent demographic events reduced the fraction of continental northern European ancestry, while introducing further ancestry components into the English gene pool, including substantial southwestern European ancestry most closely related to that seen in Iron Age France." ...

ENA Browser (ebi.ac.uk) (https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB54899)

torzio
15-08-22, 07:29
far from me ...............I know its the other T branch

Distance to: Torziok12b
12.74404175 I3011_Early-Medieval_UK_Lincoln-Castle_Dod_K12b

Salento
26-08-22, 18:29
dod K12b


ALB_Mdv:I14622_y-T1a2b1_mt-H11a,5.50,0.00,3.83,0.00,27.98,21.55,0.57,0.05,8.7 3,0.00,31.43,0.36
ARM_Karashamb_LBA:I19345_y-T1a1a1b2b_mt-J1d6,24.77,0.00,0.00,0.01,6.82,17.69,1.57,0.00,7.0 2,0.00,41.83,0.28
GRC_Kastrouli_Anc:I17962_y-T1a2b1_mt-U8b1b,0.06,0.00,3.38,0.00,34.64,9.52,0.00,0.00,13. 96,0.00,38.41,0.03
GRC_Marathon_Rom:I7833_y-T1a2b1a_mt-H,10.29,0.00,1.72,1.05,19.47,7.73,0.00,0.21,17.41, 0.01,41.68,0.42
TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Stratonikeia_Byz:I20143_y-T1a2_mt-J1b3b1,12.52,0.66,2.52,0.00,22.00,3.34,0.00,0.00,1 5.70,0.00,42.39,0.88
TUR_BlackSea_Samsun_Anc_A:I4530_y-T1a2b1a1_mt-U3a2a1,8.14,0.00,1.51,0.00,23.12,6.78,0.00,0.00,15 .66,0.48,43.92,0.38
TUR_Marmara_İznik_Basilica_RomByz_A:I14799_y-T1a2b1a1_mt-I1,8.08,0.00,0.00,0.00,24.57,5.51,0.00,0.00,16.85, 0.78,44.05,0.16
TUR_SE_Kilis_EBA_A:I14797_y-T1a1a_mt-N2a,9.86,0.39,3.08,0.00,13.28,0.00,0.00,0.56,21.37 ,0.92,50.55,0.00
TUR_SE_Kilis_MBA:I14788_y-T1a1a1_mt-K1a15,11.56,0.00,1.79,0.00,11.74,1.59,0.00,0.78,25 .53,0.07,46.80,0.14
TUR_SE_Şırnak_BA:I4615_y-T1a2_mt-N1,12.32,0.00,2.21,2.29,11.88,0.00,0.97,0.07,20.42 ,0.00,49.26,0.57

torzio
26-08-22, 20:22
all very far from myself

Distance to: Torziok12b
15.05875825 ALB_Mdv:I14622_y-T1a2b1_mt-H11a
27.57585538 GRC_Kastrouli_Anc:I17962_y-T1a2b1_mt-U8b1b
35.07276294 TUR_BlackSea_Samsun_Anc_A:I4530_y-T1a2b1a1_mt-U3a2a1
35.28608649 GRC_Marathon_Rom:I7833_y-T1a2b1a_mt-H
35.82466469 TUR_Marmara_İznik_Basilica_RomByz_A:I14799_y-T1a2b1a1_mt-I1
37.16133071 TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Stratonikeia_Byz:I20143_y-T1a2_mt-J1b3b1
41.24376438 ARM_Karashamb_LBA:I19345_y-T1a1a1b2b_mt-J1d6
48.36993488 TUR_SE_Kilis_MBA:I14788_y-T1a1a1_mt-K1a15
48.93004087 TUR_SE_Şırnak_BA:I4615_y-T1a2_mt-N1
49.08648185 TUR_SE_Kilis_EBA_A:I14797_y-T1a1a_mt-N2a

Salento
26-08-22, 20:39
Distance to:
S_Dod_K12b


6.71502792
ALB_Mdv:I14622_y-T1a2b1_mt-H11a


13.05905816
GRC_Kastrouli_Anc:I17962_y-T1a2b1_mt-U8b1b


15.27089716
TUR_BlackSea_Samsun_Anc_A:I4530_y-T1a2b1a1_mt-U3a2a1


15.69188644
GRC_Marathon_Rom:I7833_y-T1a2b1a_mt-H


16.35741422
TUR_Marmara_İznik_Basilica_RomByz_A:I14799_y-T1a2b1a1_mt-I1


18.29612801
TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Stratonikeia_Byz:I20143_y-T1a2_mt-J1b3b1


29.02033770
TUR_SE_Kilis_MBA:I14788_y-T1a1a1_mt-K1a15


29.16227872
TUR_SE_Kilis_EBA_A:I14797_y-T1a1a_mt-N2a


29.29489205
ARM_Karashamb_LBA:I19345_y-T1a1a1b2b_mt-J1d6


29.31824176
TUR_SE_Şırnak_BA:I4615_y-T1a2_mt-N1

torzio
28-08-22, 01:30
Distance to:
S_Dod_K12b


6.71502792
ALB_Mdv:I14622_y-T1a2b1_mt-H11a


13.05905816
GRC_Kastrouli_Anc:I17962_y-T1a2b1_mt-U8b1b


15.27089716
TUR_BlackSea_Samsun_Anc_A:I4530_y-T1a2b1a1_mt-U3a2a1


15.69188644
GRC_Marathon_Rom:I7833_y-T1a2b1a_mt-H


16.35741422
TUR_Marmara_İznik_Basilica_RomByz_A:I14799_y-T1a2b1a1_mt-I1


18.29612801
TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Stratonikeia_Byz:I20143_y-T1a2_mt-J1b3b1


29.02033770
TUR_SE_Kilis_MBA:I14788_y-T1a1a1_mt-K1a15


29.16227872
TUR_SE_Kilis_EBA_A:I14797_y-T1a1a_mt-N2a


29.29489205
ARM_Karashamb_LBA:I19345_y-T1a1a1b2b_mt-J1d6


29.31824176
TUR_SE_Şırnak_BA:I4615_y-T1a2_mt-N1



what is this all about ?

Salento
28-08-22, 02:26
what is this all about ?

y Ts Southern Arc samples ... S aka Salento, ... me.

torzio
28-08-22, 04:11
y Ts Southern Arc samples ... S aka Salento, ... me.


ok

who did test with ............just ftdna?

Salento
28-08-22, 05:22
ok
who did test with ............just ftdna?
… Those 10 Y T samples are from Lazaridis et al. Science 2022 !

I tested Y and mtDNA of some of those samples too:

https://i.imgur.com/PPi9Fl6.gif

https://i.imgur.com/LC9ZnZq.gif


https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/8_25_2022_Manuscript1_ChalcolithicBronzeAge_1.pdf

Huracan
28-08-22, 05:31
ID
Date mean in BP
Date standard deviation in BP
Full Date (95.4% CI)
Analysis_Label
Locality
Country
Lat.
Long.
Y-DNA
mtDNA


I20143
975
188
650-1300 CE
TUR_Aegean_Muğla_Stratonikeia_Byz
Stratonikeia-West Church (Aegean, Muğla, Yatağan)
Turkey
37.3
28.03
T-L131
J1b3b1


I4615
4991
73
3263-2925 calBCE (4415±20 BP, PSUAMS-3063)
TUR_SE_Şırnak_BA
Tatika (Southeast, Şırnak, Güçlükonak, Koçtepe köyü)
Turkey
37.5432
41.8662
T-L131
N1


I14622
1121
36
773-885 calCE (1205±20 BP, PSUAMS-7198)
ALB_Mdv
Kënetë (Norteastern, Kukes District)
Albania
42.036944
20.397222
T-FGC47678
H11a


I17962
2594
67
773-544 calBCE (2500±20 BP, PSUAMS-7825)
GRC_Kastrouli_Anc
Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)
Greece
38.399083
22.575
T-S27463
U8b1b


I7833
1610
47
252-412 calCE (1715±25 BP, PSUAMS-3469)
GRC_Marathon_Rom
Vranas Marathon
Greece
38.122207
23.946392
T-CTS3767
H


I14799
1575
14
350-400 CE
TUR_Marmara_İznik_Basilica_RomByz_A
Basilica (Marmara, Iznik)
Turkey
40.42
29.71
T-CTS9984
I1


I4530
1648
34
241-362 calCE (1755±20 BP, PSUAMS-4141)
TUR_BlackSea_Samsun_Anc_A
Cedit, Basarabya (Black Sea, Samsun, llkadım)
Turkey
41.313
36.33
T-CTS8489
U3a2a1

Salento
28-08-22, 06:23
… is I17962 (773-544 calBCE) Mycenaean or Ancient Greek? … Maybe at the edge of both?
He’s very close to the Mycenaeans.

https://i.imgur.com/Fb9SjiD.gif

torzio
10-09-22, 06:02
23mofang (a company based in Chengdu, Sichuan,) has two members of T-PH110/T-PH196: a Mr. Hu 胡 from Changchun, Jilin and a Mr. Ma 馬 from Linxia Hui Autonomous Prefecture, Gansu.

23mofang currently estimates the TMRCA of T-PH110/T-PH196 to be a whopping 28,210 ybp (compared to an estimated TMRCA of 31,840 ybp for the entire haplogroup T-M184 and an estimated TMRCA of 19,260 ybp for T-L206).

T-M184 split into T1a1, T1a2, T1a3 ..........13500ybp , south of Baku on the Caspian Sea

Salento
13-09-22, 02:42
SB696 ... antisemitic violence victim - 6th Feb 1190 AD - Norwich UK - y T1a1a - mt U6a1b1b



SB696_Dod_K12b_Norwich-UK_1190-AD_y-T1a1a_mt-U6a1b1b,4.20,0.00,7.03,0.00,28.76,6.10,2.68,1.08,1 6.33,0.54,32.77,0.51



https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB55223?show=reads

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdfExtended/S0960-9822(22)01355-0

Jovialis
13-09-22, 12:57
… is I17962 (773-544 calBCE) Mycenaean or Ancient Greek? … Maybe at the edge of both?
He’s very close to the Mycenaeans.
https://i.imgur.com/Fb9SjiD.gif
According to the new study, the Mycenaean-like genetic profile (minority Yamnaya-Minoan substratum) was pervasive in the region including some samples in Bulgaria. Perhaps also in south Italy according to my analysis. Which means it could be an ancestry that spans multiple cultures. Sort of like how modern South Italians and Greeks share genetic similarities but have significant differences in culture (language, religion)

Angela
13-09-22, 15:39
… is I17962 (773-544 calBCE) Mycenaean or Ancient Greek? … Maybe at the edge of both?
He’s very close to the Mycenaeans.

https://i.imgur.com/Fb9SjiD.gif

Is his best match, the Olalde sample, the Greek from the trading post in Northeast Spain?

torzio
13-09-22, 18:36
y Ts Southern Arc samples ... S aka Salento, ... me.


we are 9 points apart in our admixture results...................do you remember our STR differences ?.......was it 6 or more ?

Salento
13-09-22, 19:29
@Jovialis ... Thanks :)
@Torzio ... I don't know.
@Angela ... I8215 : 746-415 calBCE - mtDNA HV11 - Girona, Empuries, necropolis Centre de Visitants, Spain.

Salento
13-09-22, 20:17
... with Dodecad Globe 13 I17962 is closer to the Myceneans, ... Olalde I8215 is 4th .



Distance to:
GRC_Kastrouli_Anc:I17962


1.66784292
GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I13514


2.51071703
BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20184


3.07468698
GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I13506_d


3.09870941
I8215:I8215


3.77253231
BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20180


3.84854518
BGR_RomByz:I18792


4.52581484
GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13579


4.65062361
GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I13516


4.65791799
GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I13518


4.82399212
ASH068:ASH068


4.95284767
I12220:I12220


5.01447904
BGR_KapitanAndreevo_IA:I20186


5.38526694
GRC_Mycenaean_Attica_BA:I15582


5.44192980
Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese_ :I9010


5.49989091
BGR_Diamandievo_IA:I19481


5.60134805
I10366:I10366


5.65023008
Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Peloponnese_ :I9041


5.65164578
GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13578


5.72441263
GRC_Mycenaean_Attica_BA:I15571


5.73365503
GRC_Mycenaean_Attica_BA:I16709


5.92776518
GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13428


6.26365708
I8208:I8208


6.31040411
GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13532


6.82116559
_Bulgaria_IA_:I5769


7.03256710
GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577

Jovialis
13-09-22, 20:47
Wow! that is extraordinary!

Would you be able to re-process the modern academic samples in G13 format? I know it is asking for much, but it would be very much appreciated.

Salento
14-09-22, 00:28
Wow! that is extraordinary!

Would you be able to re-process the modern academic samples in G13 format? I know it is asking for much, but it would be very much appreciated.

Yes, … It will be a new project :)

torzio
14-09-22, 05:20
we are 9 points apart in our admixture results...................do you remember our STR differences ?.......was it 6 or more ?


we have a difference of 18 in Y111 ....................about 15%

so we knew each other early iron-age

Salento
14-09-22, 07:36
we have a difference of 18 in Y111 ....................about 15%
so we knew each other early iron-age

You have a memory of steel, … I don't remember much about my time in the Iron-Age., … I should have kept a diary. lol

torzio
14-09-22, 17:08
You have a memory of steel, … I don't remember much about my time in the Iron-Age., … I should have kept a diary. lol

aah memories, ...........hunting Boars and Stags