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secherbernard
30-05-10, 10:58
Wikipedia and Eupedia web sites tell that Uyghur people have a high frequency of R1a and R1b haplogroups. Is there any recent Y-DNA study about Uyghur Y-DNA ?

willy
11-06-10, 17:37
no ? http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/uyger2.jpg

M9 lineage = K, L (M20), M (P256), NO (M214) (N and O), P (M45) (Q and R), S (M230) and T (M70)
M130 = C1, C2, C3, C4, C5
YAP = all E, D
M89 = G (M201), H (M52), I (M170), J (12f2.1), K
M45 = P
M173 = R1
M17 = R1a

Xue Yali et al. (2006) have tested two samples of Uyghurs, one from Urumqi and the other from Ili, and found the following distribution of Y-DNA haplogroups.

Uygur/Urumqi:
1/31 = 3.2% Y*(xA, C, DE, J, K) (This could be B, F*, G, H, or I, but, judging from other sources of Uyghur Y-DNA data, it is most likely G-M201.)
1/31 = 3.2% C*(xC1, C3) (This might be related to haplogroup C5-M356, which has been found in South Asia and Arabia.)
2/31 = 6.5% E
8/31 = 25.8% J
1/31 = 3.2% N1*-LLY22g(xN1a, N1b, N1c)
2/31 = 6.5% N1b
1/31 = 3.2% O1a
1/31 = 3.2% O3a3c*-M134(xO3a3c1-M117)
1/31 = 3.2% O3a3c1-M117
6/31 = 19.4% P*(xR1a) (This could be P*, Q, R*, R1b, or R2. I would guess that it is mostly R1b, mixed with smaller numbers of Q and R2.)
7/31 = 22.6% R1a

Uygur/Yili:
8/39 = 20.5% Y*(xA, C, DE, J, K) (This would be one of the highest frequencies of haplogroup G in the entire world if it were really all G-M201.)
1/39 = 2.6% C*(xC1, C3)
3/39 = 7.7% C3c
1/39 = 2.6% DE(xE)
5/39 = 12.8% K*(xNO, P)
1/39 = 2.6% N1*-LLY22g(xN1a, N1b, N1c)
2/39 = 5.1% N1c1
2/39 = 5.1% O3*
2/39 = 5.1% O3a3c*-M134(xO3a3c1-M117)
2/39 = 5.1% O3a3c1-M117
6/39 = 15.4% P*(xR1a)
6/39 = 15.4% R1a

Maciamo
18-06-10, 10:03
Here is the full PDF article for north-east Asian Y-DNA by Yali Xue (http://www.genetics.org/cgi/reprint/172/4/2431) cited above.

secherbernard
18-06-10, 10:47
The high frequency of R1a and R1b in Uyghurs is probably the trace of Tokharians. These Tokharians are related to Afanasevo culture (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanasevo_culture) who migrated from Pontic Steppes about 3.500 BC.
This is another clue which shows that these haplogroups are related to IE and Steppes during copper age.

willy
18-06-10, 11:12
The high frequency of R1a and R1b in Uyghurs is probably the trace of Tokharians. These Tokharians are related to Afanasevo culture (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanasevo_culture) who migrated from Pontic Steppes about 3.500 BC.
This is another clue which shows that these haplogroups are related to IE and Steppes during copper age.

I have just read that Maciamo 's PDF so R1a is well mentioned but there is no R1b ? or tell me where ?

secherbernard
18-06-10, 12:19
I have just read that Maciamo 's PDF so R1a is well mentioned but there is no R1b ? or tell me where ?
That's the P*(xR1a) which confirm oldest study: http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf

willy
18-06-10, 12:40
That's the P*(xR1a) which confirm oldest study: http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf (http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/%7Emcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf)

P*(xR1a) means R1b ok !

R. Beiter
08-07-10, 13:03
SecherBernard : "The high frequency of R1a and R1b in Uyghurs is probably the trace of Tokharians. These Tokharians are related to Afanasevo culture" Not sure at all about R1b.
So far, only R1a1a is visible in the aDNA of the region of Afanasevo culture. In south Siberia, during bronze age, all the y-DNA was R1a1 and the mtDNA lineages were 90% west Eurasian (67% during Iron age) in "Ancient DNA provides new insights into the history of south Siberian Kurgan people" (sorry you have to google it up, I still can't post links).

part of the abstract :

"Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement, suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilization (i.e. in Xinjiang)."

And also in Xinjiang (study of the 2,000 BC remains of the Xiaohe peoples : (“Evidence that a West-East admixed population lived in the Tarim Basin as early as the early Bronze Age” )

Interesting bits :

"Mitochondrial DNA analysis showed that the Xiaohe people carried both the East Eurasian haplogroup (C) and the West Eurasian haplogroups (H and K), whereas Y chromosomal DNA analysis revealed only the West Eurasian haplogroup R1a1a in the male individuals."

" Besides the East Eurasian lineage, two West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups H and K were found among the Xiaohe people. H lineage is the most common mtDNA haplogroup in West Eurasia [20], but haplogroup H with a 16260T was shared by only nine modern people in Genbank, including one Italian, one German, one Hungarian, one Portuguese, one Icelander and four English people."

willy
20-07-10, 18:00
ok thank you : only R1a not R1b

rms2
21-07-10, 15:41
Afanasievo is not Tocharian, neither is it certain that the Tarim mummies were Tocharians.

I know that R1b runs at about a 20-25% frequency among the Uyghurs, but I can't find the study where I saw that (about three or four years ago). Some of that R1b was R1b1b1 (M73), as I recall.

Here is a map with a Uyghur pie chart (labeled "UG") showing the proportions of the various y haplogroups:

http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf

R. Beiter
22-07-10, 16:10
rms2 : "Afanasievo is not Tocharian, neither is it certain that the Tarim mummies were Tocharians."

Indeed but the probability is still high in both cases (Afanasevo culture speaking the ancestor of Tocharian and the Tarim mummies speaking recent ancestor of Tocharian languages).That's hypothetical though, of course.

As for R1b and J2 we will have to wait for more ancient DNA to have certitudes about their origin and time of arrival. The fact remains that so far, we only have R1a1a + west eurasian mtDNA (+ Asian mtDNA too at some point of course, especially more and more visible during early Iron age; Before that, west eurasian mtDNA hgs in Kazakhstan and south Siberia were overwhelmingly west eurasian / this shift in population types is also confirmed by the skeletal remains of the regions - first, caucasoids then more and more mongoloids with Iron age, becoming predominant up to today).

Maybe new studies will depict a more complex picture though, concerning the ancient haplogroups of Xinjiang but at the moment I'll go with what we actually have...

aynurrzepa
20-06-11, 13:24
Folks, just imagine R1a abd R1b are ancient TURKIC (who were NON MONGOLOID) HG moving from WEST (homeland) to EAST, mixing with asiatic HG Q, C and becoming utterly mongoloid but preserving their language. Also, studies show scythians could have been turkic speakers, not IE - runic writings can be easily read in Turkic languages of modern times! The R1b & R1a found in Europe are ancient native HG and Turkic languages are originally European and are at the very base (almost untraceble) of many European languages! The most ancient ancestors of Europeans could have been proto-turks... When they came back to Europe much much later all Europe saw was mongolisised turks mixed with actual mongols and obviusly decided they have nothing to do with them! Eventually Turcophobia took toll in Europe due to the faced brutalities disallowing scholars to think straight about their ancestry and misleading them to IE origins of R1a and R1b HG! Just imagine! Your thoughts?

iapetoc
20-06-11, 16:44
Folks, just imagine R1a abd R1b are ancient TURKIC (who were NON MONGOLOID) HG moving from WEST (homeland) to EAST, mixing with asiatic HG Q, C and becoming utterly mongoloid but preserving their language. Also, studies show scythians could have been turkic speakers, not IE - runic writings can be easily read in Turkic languages of modern times! The R1b & R1a found in Europe are ancient native HG and Turkic languages are originally European and are at the very base (almost untraceble) of many European languages! The most ancient ancestors of Europeans could have been proto-turks... When they came back to Europe much much later all Europe saw was mongolisised turks mixed with actual mongols and obviusly decided they have nothing to do with them! Eventually Turcophobia took toll in Europe due to the faced brutalities disallowing scholars to think straight about their ancestry and misleading them to IE origins of R1a and R1b HG! Just imagine! Your thoughts?



simply the linguistic approach is different,
that means that Turks do not speak their language,!!!!!!!!!!



that means that Turks who are J in Turkey just imagine that they Greeks !!!!!!!!!!!!
Hahahahahaha Turks that speak IE (include Greek language)
and Greeks who speak Turkish Ahahahahahahahahahaha


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:



well I am not sure and I want to ask some here,

did the Y-Dna of Turk Sultans ever tested?

I am suspicius of Alan G an not 'White desert' origin Uyghur

Even linguistically they are more connected with ancient Anatolian and middle East than with 'White Desert'

Goga
10-07-11, 00:05
Haplogorups R1a & R1b are archaic Euro-Asiatic haplgoroups. Both, native Europeans and native Central Asians, like Turkic people were R1.. (and N, Q) folks. Haplgroup R1.. was spread all over the northern part of the Eurasian continent. It has not so much to do with the proto-IE folks.

Maciamo
10-07-11, 08:37
Haplogorups R1a & R1b are archaic Euro-Asiatic haplgoroups. Both, native Europeans and native Central Asians, like Turkic people were R1.. (and N, Q) folks. Haplgroup R1.. was spread all over the northern part of the Eurasian continent. It has not so much to do with the proto-IE folks.

You obviously don't know much about phylogeny and subclades dating. The R1b found among Uyghurs is not the archaic R1b* but the much more recent R1b1b1 and R1b1b2. Same for R1a. All over North Asia and Central Asia the type of R1a found is R1a1a1, the same as in Europe.

archaiocapilos
10-07-11, 11:55
The high frequency of R1a and R1b in Uyghurs is probably the trace of Tokharians. These Tokharians are related to Afanasevo culture (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanasevo_culture) who migrated from Pontic Steppes about 3.500 BC.
This is another clue which shows that these haplogroups are related to IE and Steppes during copper age.
Wikipedia also says that Afanasevo culture was dominated by R1a with a small trace of Mongoloid C. No R1b was found there so if it was the homeland of Tokharians they should be R1a only, and the R1b found in Uyghurs is not explained. Could it be that R1b in Central Asia were Turkish speakers? (especially the M73 subclade which is dominant in Turkmens too)

Goga
10-07-11, 16:17
You obviously don't know much about phylogeny and subclades dating. The R1b found among Uyghurs is not the archaic R1b* but the much more recent R1b1b1 and R1b1b2. Same for R1a. All over North Asia and Central Asia the type of R1a found is R1a1a1, the same as in Europe. MAybe Uyghurs were the same folks like r1b Europeans, but those r1b Europeans mixed with i1 and i2 folks and Uyghurs with the Asiatic people.

There is very much of haplogroups n and q in northern Europe, like all over the northern part of the Eurasian continent. So it must be native to Europe, like r1 is also native to Central Asia.

The archaic r1 evolved somewhere in Asia.

aynurrzepa
10-08-11, 15:02
You obviously don't know much about phylogeny and subclades dating. The R1b found among Uyghurs is not the archaic R1b* but the much more recent R1b1b1 and R1b1b2. Same for R1a. All over North Asia and Central Asia the type of R1a found is R1a1a1, the same as in Europe.

Russian DNA Genealogy says Uigur, Kazakh and Bashkir R1b1 is 16000 years old! ???