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SteveS
30-06-10, 15:01
Hi All

I do not know too much about Genetics and the implications to my family, but I've done a YDNA test for my paternal line that is a little confusing - but fascinating at the same time - I just need someone with more knowledge to help me out. I know there may be no concrete answers...

For the immediate paternal past I know I come from a UK Family - Caucasian looking - with a traceable history back to the late 1700's in Britain. My surname is listed as being Sardinian in origin,in a book of UK Surnames that came out in 1912 (can't remember the name of the book!!)

I remember reading somewhere that my surname has been in the UK since the Domesday book. I know my Surname exists in Italy and the UK most strongly, but also in France, Spain and Scandinavia.

My YDNA test says I belong to Haplogroup D - an old lineage found mostly in Tibet, The Andaman Islands, the original Japanese and small drabs of Mongolia..!!

Is this a common thing..?

Most research says the aforementioned are the main places where this Haplogroup exists, and even then only in small pockets..!!

Is it likely to be a mistake ? I may get a second test...

But for the meantime I can only guess. Perhaps generational movements through maybe Genghis Kahn/Kublai Kahn, Attila the Hun (knowing that it was predominantly Halplogroup C - Maybe some Haplogroup D's were in the hordes?) or migration along the Silk Road...? I'm really at a loss...

Bearing in mind the Italian/Europe/UK surname

But maybe even through Turkey and the Turkic populations there - but they are pretty much Haplo C and in small concentration)...

Maybe I'm thinking too recently, and there were movements earlier on - but I don't know much about that..

I'm at a loss..!!

Everyone on here seems to be quite knowledgeable on such subjects so
anyone with any helpful suggestions would be welcome...!!

Thanks for any help

Steve

Maciamo
30-06-10, 20:31
Y-DNA haplogroups C and D represents the very first lineages who left Africa for Asia, around 60,000 years ago. It is likely that these early Homo Sapiens mixed with the descendants of the East Asian Homo Erectus, and that their hybrid offspring gave the Mongoloid race.

Haplogroup D has been replaced mostly by hg O, but survives in higher frequency in isolated regions, like the Indonesian jungle, the mountains of South-West China and Tibet, and especially in Japan. Each region has its own subclade, so it would be very useful to know your own subclade of D.

Haplogroup D is extremely rare among Europeans. Your paternal lineage possibly descend from people who have progressively migrated from East Asia to Europe, perhaps thousands of years ago, but perhaps just a few centuries ago. You are a very interesting case. How many STR markers did you test ? This could be helpful to trace back the region of Asia where your ancestors originated as well as the approximate time they left Asia. Was your haplogroup confirmed by SNP testing ?

Wilhelm
30-06-10, 21:19
If I was you I would make sure they tested the correct person. I know of a case of a european who got haplogroup D also, and he ended up being I2a because the company messed up his DNA for another person's

SteveS
01-07-10, 09:35
Thanks for your help with that guys - I was tested by "My Ancestors Genes" a company in Melbourne...

They only give out a basic Haplogroup that you belong to - but I'm going to get another test by another company - just to be sure - and also to go a little more into depth.

Thanks for the suggestions - because if the Haplogroup is D, it sounds as if it's a pretty rare thing... and my ancestors had a fascinating, and rare journey back in the past sometime...

I'll keep you posted...

Cheers

Maciamo
01-07-10, 12:44
I agree with Wilhelm, they could have mixed your results with someone else's. There are quite a few Asians (including Japanese) in Melbourne, so it's not impossible.

Semitic Duwa
02-07-10, 19:14
Wandering Samurai:D

SteveS
28-07-10, 03:30
Hi There just an update, I've had my tests re-examined and the result is still Haplogroup D... Here's a copy of what I was Given by way of response...

"I am writing to confirm that a senior scientist has re-analysed your results twice and still come up with Haplogroup D as your Haplogroup. That said the assignment probability wasn't very high but it was still highest for Haplogroup D. The low assignment probability might mean that you belong to a rare Haplogroup which is not in our database but you are not likley to belong to one of the standard European Haplogroups (e.g. I, N or R1b) because the assignment probability for these groups was even lower.

We hope this information has been of assistance.

Kind Regards,
My Ancestors Genes Team"

I may get a more detailed analysis... Can anyone suggest a good company for such a thing..?

DNA Tribes sounded interesting but they don't examine the haplogroup itself... Any suggestions would be welcomed...

Thanks to you all for your help already...

Cheers

Maciamo
28-07-10, 09:25
Steve,

I checked the website of My Ancestors Genes, and it didn't appear very professional. There is no information about what get tested in their Y-chromosome test. Is it a STR test ? How many markers are tested ? Which ones ? Do they confirm the haplogroup by a SNP test ?

You should definitely request your STR results if you haven't received them. All the major DNA testing companies provide them. FTDNA even sends you a paper certificate by snail mail. The best company for STR testing is FamilyTreeDNA (FTDNA) (http://www.familytreedna.com/). Note that My Ancestors Genes uses that name on their site description, which I think is fraudulous or at least misleading customers into believing that they represent that company.

SteveS
29-07-10, 05:55
Thank you Maciamo,

I will get a test done with that company to see my results (I'll keep you posted)...

I really appreciate yours (and everyone's) help on this...

Cheers

Baz
13-09-10, 14:16
Y-DNA haplogroups C and D represents the very first lineages who left Africa for Asia, around 60,000 years ago. It is likely that these early Homo Sapiens mixed with the descendants of the East Asian Homo Erectus, and that their hybrid offspring gave the Mongoloid race.


Actually there is no scientific evidence (as yet) of hybridisation between Homo Sapiens and other Homo species (Homo Sapiens with Homo Erectus and Homo Sapiens with Neanderthals) to create unique geographic hybrids. FTDNA does offer deep clade testing for Haplogroup D. Send them an email if the links do not appear for you in your Haplogroup tree once you have received your test results. I'm not sure if a deep clade test will tell you more but it may be something worth trying...

SteveS
16-01-11, 10:23
Hi all - It's taken a while to get my results back from FTDNA, they had to do four different tests to get a deep clade result..!!!

It turns out I'm I2a2 M423..!! Centred in the Balkans

I put the results into a predictor, which says it's Isles C, but another said Dinaric... Not being an expert - I cant find an Isles C definition anywhere, but the Dinaric one refers to the Balkans...

My question is - regarding the settlement of Sardinia, I know there is a high proportion of I2a1 M26 there - from original settlers from the Spanish side of Europe (but it is related to the Balkan one originally)...

There's talk that the second wave of Sardinian colonists may have come from the Balkan area, or even later settlement via the Dalmatians about 500AD... But there's no mention of the frequency of I2a2 M423 on the Sardnian island..?

Is there any? It doesn't seem out of the question, it's just our surname evolved (supposedly) from the island, I just wondered is there any information out there on I2a2 M423 in Sardinia?

Thanks for any help, and all your help thus far....

Cheers
Steve

Maciamo
16-01-11, 17:46
Damn, FTDNA really screwed up by announcing that you belonged to haplogroup D last year ! And it took them 6 months and four tests just identify a few SNP's ! Unbelievable ! You would have saved a lot of time and money by testing with 23andMe, and would have had much more results (not just Y-DNA).

To answer your question, I2a1 in Sardinia probably got to the island at the end of the Ice Age, when sea levels were lower and the island easily accessible from the continent. I2a hunter-gatherers probably roamed all southern Europe in the Mesolithic period.

Both I2a1 and I2a2 are found at low frequency a bit everywhere in Western and Central Europe. But Sardinia has almost exclusively I2a1, while the Balkans and Danube basin is overwhelmingly I2a2.

So much has happened since the Mesolithic that I2a2 could have reached places like Britain with the spread of agriculture, with the Indo-European invasions, through the Celtic road network, sometime during the Roman period, or even later. There is just no way to know which one is true in your case.

SteveS
17-01-11, 02:19
Thanks Maciamo...

Yep it's certainly been a long time in coming - It takes a while to post the swabs to the U.S., then ages between each test...

I will state that the Haplogroup D reading came from "My Ancestors Genes" in Melbourne - and someone recommended FTDNA to test the results...

So good on them for being thorough - but they really had trouble getting my initial Haplogroup (2 tests) and then my Deep Clade test they had a bit more trouble (another 2 tests), with a good month in between each one - It was the waiting that was the killer..!!! But good to have a result...

Obviously the surname is not from the original I2a1 settlers, but could have travelled about with the Romans, Vandals, Dalmatians, or maybe the old printed pottery culture (that one's probably unlikely but who knows?), certainly puts my genetics near the region I first suspected we were from..!!

(Given a Sardinian evolved surname - although could have come from one of the Balkan islands too... although any number of things could have led to the name...)...

Getting to the UK is another thing, but not so hard to imagine - certainly an easier journey than from Asia..!!!

Thanks for your time and speedy reply...

All the best...:smile:

Ancestor
15-10-15, 10:19
You are maybe descendant Phoenicians. D haplogroup is from Canaan, the son of Ham.

RobertColumbia
16-10-15, 02:14
You are maybe descendant Phoenicians. D haplogroup is from Canaan, the son of Ham.

He's not Haplogroup D. He's almost certainly I2, which is much more common in Europe.

Outlier haplogroup or subclade results demand further investigation, more so than common ones. Yes, people did travel and some lineages did end up in odd places far from their cousins, but most people (by definition) will belong to common lineages. Mine, for example, fits in perfectly with the documented Appalachian origin of my paternal line - they were in the midst of the Ulster Scots/Hillbilly culture of Kentucky, and probably came from it.

Ancestor
28-10-15, 20:46
He's not Haplogroup D. He's almost certainly I2, which is much more common in Europe.

Outlier haplogroup or subclade results demand further investigation, more so than common ones. Yes, people did travel and some lineages did end up in odd places far from their cousins, but most people (by definition) will belong to common lineages. Mine, for example, fits in perfectly with the documented Appalachian origin of my paternal line - they were in the midst of the Ulster Scots/Hillbilly culture of Kentucky, and probably came from it.

Almost certainly not :wary2: The Phoenicians were hamitic nation. The haplogroup I belong to semitic haplogroups, and certainly its ancestor is Lud or his descendant (Illyrians). Ham was E1b1b1 like his sons. Canaanites had later also hg E1b1a (it is possible, because the cladogram of y-haplogroups do not consider supresor mutations) - Therefore Jews have higer frequency of this haplogroup, if you read the Bible, and they also have 400 years lived in the Egypt so they have also the Hg of Ham. And therefore is also possible that haplogroup D can belong to any descendant of Ham. We must also consider the genetic drift. Among descendants of Mizraim and Canaan were marine nations. If hg D occurs in Europe, it certainly belong to Canaan, but if not, it can belong to any son of Ham... It is complicated to find truth...