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Alonzo
10-08-10, 08:27
A very interesting new study by Richard Lynn, "In Italy, north–south differences in IQ predict differences in income, education, infant mortality, stature, and literacy" reveals that :

"IQs are highest in the north and lowest in the south [of Italy]. Regional IQs obtained in 2006 are highly correlated with average incomes at r=0.937, and with stature, infant mortality, literacy and education. The lower IQ in southern Italy may be attributable to genetic admixture with populations from the Near East and North Africa"

"A possible explanation for the northern regions having had higher IQs than the southern regions at least from 1880 and possibly from 1400 to 1600 is that the populations of the north and south are genetically different and these genetic differences are related to differences in intelligence. Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi, and Piazza (1994) are the leading authorities on the genetics of human populations, particularly those in Italy. They write of the population genetics of Italy that “northern Italy shows similarities with countries of central Europe, whereas central and southern Italy are more similar to Greece and other Mediterranean countries. This corresponds to the well-known differences in physical type (especially pigmentation and size) between the northern and north-central Italians on the one side and southern Italians on the other” (1994, p. 277). By “Mediterranean countries” Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi and Piazza mean the countries that border the Mediterranean including those of North Africa and the Near East. They note also that the Sardinians are genetically more closely related to the Greeks, Lebanese and North African Berbers than to central and northern Europeans (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994, pp. 78, 274). Subsequent studies have confirmed the genetic impact of immigration from the Near East and North Africa into southern Italy"

"The explanation of the genetic difference between northern and north-central Italians and southern Italians together with Sardinians is that over the course of many centuries there has been considerable immigration into the southern Italian mainland, Sicily, and Sardinia by peoples from North Africa and the Near East"

"The diffusion of genes from the Near East and North Africa may explain why the populations of southern Italy have IQs in the range of 89–92, intermediate between those of northern Italy and central and northern Europe (about 100) and those of the Near East and North Africa (in the range of 80–84) (these IQs are given in Lynn, 2006). This also explains the north–south gradient of IQ in Italy in which the regional IQs do not show a clear dichotomy between north and south but rather a gradient in which IQs decline steadily with more southerly latitude. ... This explanation also accounts for the IQs of around 90 for several countries in the Balkans shown in Lynn (2006) and confirmed for Serbia by Rushton and Čvorović (2009), whose populations are of partly European and partly Near Eastern origin (Semino et al., 1996). All these data taken together indicate that the north– south gradient of intelligence in Italy has a genetic basis going back many centuries, and hence predicts the social and economic differences documented in the nineteenth century up to the present day."

unibas.it/utenti/sofo/10031615355513377.pdf

Catchabus
11-08-10, 19:07
Sounds like racist propoganda to me.

Cambrius (The Red)
11-08-10, 20:16
Were any of these studies sponsored by the Lega Nord? :rolleyes2:

Cambrius (The Red)
11-08-10, 20:21
"Border the Mediterranean"... hmmm. Then there are countries that are only partially Mediterranean like France and Spain. They are actually more Atlantic and Western European. How about countries like Albania? What a joke...

Alonzo
11-08-10, 20:47
Sounds like racist propoganda to me.

I dont think so.

When the same Richard Lynn (who is known for his views on racial and ethnic differences and believes that there are race and sex differences in intelligence) says that there are differences in IQs between "races" and that for exemple Africans have a lower IQ than Europeans, many people applaud but when he says that there are also substantial differences between Europeans themselves (especially between central-north europeans and southeastern europeans), the same people says "it is racist propoganda"... strange

Catchabus
11-08-10, 21:24
No count me in on the difference between Europeans and Africans as being biased as well.

Shasta
11-08-10, 21:59
Maybe along the same lines as Italy - in America, with our melting pot, there are discussions about what causes differences in test scores for school. Thomas Sowell had a nice article on this topic yesterday concerning a New York school that selects top students from the city. The make up of the school is mainly white and asian with few blacks and other races. That has some upset. Why is that? Is it IQ or work ethic?

Juvenile Jabs Don't Deserve Standing O's
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/543075/201008091843/Juvenile-Jabs-Dont-Deserve-Standing-Os.aspx

or as writer Steve Sailor wrote - it's not very hip to be white in todays world.

Black people like being black
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2010/08/black-people-like-being-black.html

LeBrok
11-08-10, 23:18
I dont think so.

When the same Richard Lynn (who is known for his views on racial and ethnic differences and believes that there are race and sex differences in intelligence) says that there are differences in IQs between "races" and that for exemple Africans have a lower IQ than Europeans, many people applaud but when he says that there are also substantial differences between Europeans themselves (especially between central-north europeans and southeastern europeans), the same people says "it is racist propoganda"... strange
Good point. Also one can drive up and down Italy to see a big difference in economic development, order, and crime. And the changes are gradual.

Maciamo
14-08-10, 14:29
IQ is not purely genetic. It depends on many other things such as :

- the mother's health and diet during pregnancy (obviously a mother who abuse of alcohol or do drugs or eat food with a high level of toxicity like tuna will damage the foetus' brain and lead to lower IQ)

- nutrition at least until reaching physical and mental maturity (the brain consumes a lot of energy and a good nutrition rich in omega-3, vitamins, minerals, etc. will improve neural development)

- the quality of education t least until 5 years old (intellectual stimulation from an early age is vital to the proper development of brain functions)


Statistically, poorer and less educated people have worse nutrition, are more prone to unhealthy habits and live in a less intellectually stimulating environment, which may be why IQ tends to correlate with the parents' social class and revenues, which in turn is reflected on the education, job opportunities, wealth and social class of their children.

Cambrius (The Red)
14-08-10, 16:01
IQ is not purely genetic. It depends on many other things such as :

- the mother's health and diet during pregnancy (obviously a mother who abuse of alcohol or do drugs or eat food with a high level of toxicity like tuna will damage the foetus' brain and lead to lower IQ)

- nutrition at least until reaching physical and mental maturity (the brain consumes a lot of energy and a good nutrition rich in omega-3, vitamins, minerals, etc. will improve neural development)

- the quality of education t least until 5 years old (intellectual stimulation from an early age is vital to the proper development of brain functions)


Statistically, poorer and less educated people have worse nutrition, are more prone to unhealthy habits and live in a less intellectually stimulating environment, which may be why IQ tends to correlate with the parents' social class and revenues, which in turn is reflected on the education, job opportunities, wealth and social class of their children.

I fully agree. Environmental factors in the early years of a child's life play critical roles in intellectual development. Generally, if a child comes from a family lower down in the social strata, chances are his / her IQ will be inferior to children of better educated, higher income parents. Neither race or ethnicity are determinants of IQ levels.

Catchabus
16-08-10, 17:00
Now that's objective.

^ lynx ^
29-09-10, 19:12
IQ is not purely genetic. It depends on many other things such as :

- the mother's health and diet during pregnancy (obviously a mother who abuse of alcohol or do drugs or eat food with a high level of toxicity like tuna will damage the foetus' brain and lead to lower IQ)

- nutrition at least until reaching physical and mental maturity (the brain consumes a lot of energy and a good nutrition rich in omega-3, vitamins, minerals, etc. will improve neural development)

- the quality of education t least until 5 years old (intellectual stimulation from an early age is vital to the proper development of brain functions)


Statistically, poorer and less educated people have worse nutrition, are more prone to unhealthy habits and live in a less intellectually stimulating environment, which may be why IQ tends to correlate with the parents' social class and revenues, which in turn is reflected on the education, job opportunities, wealth and social class of their children.

QFT. :good_job:

I bump this thread cause I think this may be useful for some person.

Jovialis
19-08-17, 16:58
IQ is not purely genetic. It depends on many other things such as :

- the mother's health and diet during pregnancy (obviously a mother who abuse of alcohol or do drugs or eat food with a high level of toxicity like tuna will damage the foetus' brain and lead to lower IQ)

- nutrition at least until reaching physical and mental maturity (the brain consumes a lot of energy and a good nutrition rich in omega-3, vitamins, minerals, etc. will improve neural development)

- the quality of education t least until 5 years old (intellectual stimulation from an early age is vital to the proper development of brain functions)


Statistically, poorer and less educated people have worse nutrition, are more prone to unhealthy habits and live in a less intellectually stimulating environment, which may be why IQ tends to correlate with the parents' social class and revenues, which in turn is reflected on the education, job opportunities, wealth and social class of their children.

I agree.

For example, the Irish are genetically similar to other people in the British Isles, yet their IQ is 92 on average. The population endured a lot of abuse, and were deprived of much.

But I also believe that the 19th and early 20th century mass immigration from these countries, like Italy, and Ireland played a role in reducing the IQs of the populations. The most individualistic, and risk-taking people left for greener pastures, like the USA. Which is why the immigrants from those countries became successful in places that allowed them to be. Also, the internal immigration within these places probably had a hand in depleting IQ scores in some places, and elevating them in other. Many Irish people moved to England; many Southern Italians moved to northern cities.

ROS
19-08-17, 18:37
What will the Mediterranean have, despite being the cradle of European civilization, people who live near it become fools, poor and there are those who consider that they are from another race ?, this smells a bit of "anti-Mediterranean racism."


I think that if there is no good quality of life in which the economy and access to culture work, with just and well structured societies, you live on the shores of the Mediterranean or wherever the coefficient is intellectual will be lower , So I understand that genetics can influence something but fundamentally environmental circumstances

ROS
19-08-17, 18:46
The previous post the second paragraph is not well translated.


I wanted to say that the most important thing to have a good IQ is the economy and education.

Salento
19-08-17, 19:12
IQ is about problem solving ability proportionated to acquired knowledge regardless of education or economic.

ROS
19-08-17, 19:27
If you simply have nutritional deficiencies, without entering other deficiencies, I understand that the IQ is going to be lower.


This is like the egg and the chicken, which was before ?, I believe that before is the good situation economy and quality education.

Maleth
19-08-17, 19:47
If you simply have nutritional deficiencies, without entering other deficiencies, I understand that the IQ is going to be lower.

I don't know who said this but one thing not lacking in the south of Italy is nutrition and quality comes at a very decent price. Probably they have one of the best cuisines in the world including a great variety of sweet tasting fruit and healthy olive oil :)......and no meal comes out ready from a packet.......

davef
19-08-17, 20:15
The fact that people drink coffee shows that the environment does play a significant role in intellectual capacity.
;)

Jovialis
19-08-17, 20:58
I don't know who said this but one thing not lacking in the south of Italy is nutrition and quality comes at a very decent price. Probably they have one of the best cuisines in the world including a great variety of sweet tasting fruit and healthy olive oil :)......and no meal comes out ready from a packet.......

Sadly, that was not always the case. Even my dad told me that his family would have nothing but bread most of the time, growing up.

Maleth
19-08-17, 21:10
Sadly, that was not always the case. Even my dad told me that his family would have nothing but bread most of the time, growing up.

depends how old he is. Maybe during the years of war?. Urban people probably suffered some kind of famine, but definitely not any less then anywhere else in Europe. Agriculture was always plentiful. It all depends on the region and the era. South Italians today eat very well. not fussy food a good variety all fresh and plentiful. Compared to my country Greens and fruits are ridiculously cheap in the shops and markets. I wont forget my cherry feast at 1.99 Euro a kilo on my last visit (not less then 4Euro locally) We import lots of southern Italian produce at double sometimes triple the price you get it there :(

Maleth
19-08-17, 21:17
The fact that people drink coffee shows that the environment does play a significant role in intellectual capacity.
;)

Again coffee is to die for. Fresh ground never instant wherever you go.......;).....and the price nearly always right

Jovialis
19-08-17, 21:21
Again coffee is to die for. Fresh ground never instant wherever you go.......;).....and the price nearly always right

I agree, I always grind coffee beans at home.

davef
19-08-17, 21:41
I get the crappy gas station variety. I need to get a filter and not rely on keureg/dunken d's/mobile mart. It does a beter job at perking me up.

Maleth
19-08-17, 21:50
I get the crappy gas station variety. I need to get a filter and not rely on keureg/dunken d's/mobile mart. It does a beter job at perking me up.

No comparison in taste and caffeine boost. I just stick to the morning dose. After that its tea or decafe as I might go overdose and its no good for me :/.....tastes good too :)

Salento
19-08-17, 22:16
Sadly, that was not always the case. Even my dad told me that his family would have nothing but bread most of the time, growing up.

Especially towards the end of WW2 until 1950/53 food wasn't easy available.

ROS
20-08-17, 16:47
I am not saying that in the south of Italy you eat poorly, I just say that poor diet can be a factor among others that can influence the IQ, without referring to anyone in particular.


I am clear that IQ tests should be done between people in an economically and educationally equivalent situation.


For example Italy, as we will compare the situation of northern Italy that is close and even within the most prosperous areas of Europe, although by the simple proximity to the centrality of Europe, with the southern periphery, the economic possibilities of the north are Higher than the south, of course I understand that this is above the IQ, not the other way around.

Salento
20-08-17, 19:07
I am not saying that in the south of Italy you eat poorly, I just say that poor diet can be a factor among others that can influence the IQ, without referring to anyone in particular.


I am clear that IQ tests should be done between people in an economically and educationally equivalent situation.


For example Italy, as we will compare the situation of northern Italy that is close and even within the most prosperous areas of Europe, although by the simple proximity to the centrality of Europe, with the southern periphery, the economic possibilities of the north are Higher than the south, of course I understand that this is above the IQ, not the other way around.

Just my impression:
You can't stand the South Italians.

ROS
21-08-17, 00:05
Just my impression:
You can't stand the South Italians.

Why do you say that? I do not get it.


If, precisely as a peripheral citizen of the European Union, I mistakenly label that periphery with studies on IQ.

Why do you say that?

Salento
21-08-17, 00:45
There are many Countries in the EU, many with internal differences of many kinds.

ROS
21-08-17, 01:02
There are many Countries in the EU, many with internal differences of many kinds.

Let's see, you are Italian, do you agree with the study that says that there is a north-south decline in IQ in your country and this is the cause of economic differences?

Salento
21-08-17, 01:14
let's see, you are italian, do you agree with the study that says that there is a north-south decline in iq in your country and this is the cause of economic differences?

-no- ...........

ROS
21-08-17, 01:20
Well, in principle he agrees with me.

Salento
21-08-17, 01:35
Well, in principle he agrees with me.

My Principles are my own.
Don't assume what I believe.

Yetos
21-08-17, 03:36
I am not saying that in the south of Italy you eat poorly, I just say that poor diet can be a factor among others that can influence the IQ, without referring to anyone in particular.


I am clear that IQ tests should be done between people in an economically and educationally equivalent situation.


For example Italy, as we will compare the situation of northern Italy that is close and even within the most prosperous areas of Europe, although by the simple proximity to the centrality of Europe, with the southern periphery, the economic possibilities of the north are Higher than the south, of course I understand that this is above the IQ, not the other way around.

If I understand correct.
then Swiss are the smartest in Europe?
above all others?

davef
21-08-17, 06:11
I'm not accusing ROS of bashing south Italians (I guess the translator isn't reflecting what he really means) but I'll point out that South Italians/Sicilians are heavily abused across "ethnic" forums. I bet that most of those who spew out slurs against South Italians/Sicilians never met one in person. The full blooded Italian Americans I've come across are very intelligent and compassionate.

Sile
21-08-17, 07:33
Let's see, you are Italian, do you agree with the study that says that there is a north-south decline in IQ in your country and this is the cause of economic differences?

LOL
The economic difference as you wrongly say was the fault of the spanish looting southern italy for centuries, it must be the spanish fault if there is an IQ difference, how many centuries where the spanish there?...................north italy governed themselves and so where economically more sound

Maciamo
21-08-17, 08:35
LOL
The economic difference as you wrongly say was the fault of the spanish looting southern italy for centuries, it must be the spanish fault if there is an IQ difference, how many centuries where the spanish there?...................north italy governed themselves and so where economically more sound

I seriously doubt that the modern economic disparity between northern and southern Italy is the result of the Spanish Habsburg 'looting' during their rule between the 16th to 18th centuries. Belgium also suffered from Spanish Habsburg rule but it recovered quickly afterwards. Germany and Japan had their cities razed and their economy destroyed at the end of WWII, but they recovered in just a few decades. The problem is in the attitudes. If you keep blaming the past, you can't move into the future.

IronSide
21-08-17, 08:45
Assume that there is a difference in IQ between north and south Italians, and assume that this difference is genetic, which is what the author says, then the question is: did this "evolution" of either north or south occur only in the middle ages? or was this difference always present in the genes of the superior ancient Celts of the north and the inferior Greek and Phoenician colonists and natives of Sicily?

ROS
21-08-17, 09:40
I believe that the communication through the translator of google is producing certain interpretations not correct that also do not correspond with what I mean, until I do not perfect my English I think I will not participate more in these forums.

IronSide
21-08-17, 09:55
We learned from the Ancient Egypt paper that the closest population to Ancient Egyptians are Bedouins

https://s16.postimg.org/m9inpse79/ncomms15694-f4.jpg

Bedouins had since ancient times, a tradition to oppose any form of craft or skill other than pastoralism and plunder, they don't marry from any "artisan" families http://www.alsharq.net.sa/2013/02/07/710570

They are the antithesis of whatever constitutes civilization, and yet from the same racial stock were the Ancient Egyptians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt), I'm sure there was a difference in Intelligence.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/1955f270ac229e5dceee3e8ac65e2059?AccessKeyId=3E51D 77F24E426E23252&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

https://www.startupers.sk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Pyrami%CC%81dy-Egypt-940x621.jpg

Jovialis
21-08-17, 13:44
Bedouins had since ancient times, a tradition to oppose any form of craft or skill other than pastoralism and plunder, they don't marry from any "artisan" families http://www.alsharq.net.sa/2013/02/07/710570

They are the antithesis of whatever constitutes civilization, and yet from the same racial stock were the Ancient Egyptians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt), I'm sure there was a difference in Intelligence.


We also learned Sicilians are similar to the Ancient Greeks (https://www.nature.com/articles/nature23310.epdf?author_access_token=E4JxhmOKVE0Zk 7xCXmpm99RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0OwLzzqUmCLV4d2G6bjGa7 kiPBb7TTVpAsutKGfIQRMrq8WVAMpP-SfGerriklOb5-JK4PQu2o4hKeBf7fel4E9). On the first page of this thread Maciamo said genetics is only a part of IQ, and nutrition plays a role.

EDIT:

I wonder if there is some correlation with smoking.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7548002/Smokers-have-lower-IQs.html
Smokers have lower IQs than those who abstain, with intelligence decreasing the more one smokes, researchers have found.

A study of 18 to 21-year-old men revealed that the IQs of smokers averaged 94 – seven points lower than non-smokers on 101.

IQ scores in a healthy population of young men fall between 84 and 116, but those who smoked more than a pack of cigarettes a day averaged just 90 between them.

Researchers in Israel took data from more than 20,000 healthy men before, during and after they spent time in the Israeli military.

About 28 per cent of their sample smoked one or more cigarettes a day, three per cent considered themselves ex-smokers, and 68 per cent said they never smoked.



http://i.imgur.com/eNwK5KV.png

Source (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2012/10/19/who-smokes-most-a-surprising-map-of-smoking-rates-by-country/?utm_term=.4117604b67b1)

I wonder if the Japanese IQ would be even higher, if they didn't smoke so much.


IQ is not purely genetic. It depends on many other things such as :

- the mother's health and diet during pregnancy (obviously a mother who abuse of alcohol or do drugs or eat food with a high level of toxicity like tuna will damage the foetus' brain and lead to lower IQ)

- nutrition at least until reaching physical and mental maturity (the brain consumes a lot of energy and a good nutrition rich in omega-3, vitamins, minerals, etc. will improve neural development)

- the quality of education t least until 5 years old (intellectual stimulation from an early age is vital to the proper development of brain functions)


Statistically, poorer and less educated people have worse nutrition, are more prone to unhealthy habits and live in a less intellectually stimulating environment, which may be why IQ tends to correlate with the parents' social class and revenues, which in turn is reflected on the education, job opportunities, wealth and social class of their children.

Also, I think the clannish attitude of Southern Italians is a positive attribute when they are in places like the USA. It fits in much better with the mentality.

Salento
21-08-17, 13:53
I believe that the communication through the translator of google is producing certain interpretations not correct that also do not correspond with what I mean, until I do not perfect my English I think I will not participate more in these forums.

Not need for that. It can happen to anybody been misinterpreted by a Translator. :)

Jovialis
21-08-17, 18:26
http://www.epicentro.iss.it/passi/rapporto2012/FumoPassivo.asp

The above link is in italian, so it will require translation. But it talks about regional differences with smoking, and smoking ban policies.

Veneto has the best enforcement of the smoking ban. No surprise they have a very high IQ.

I don't think smoking is the only issue. For other populations in Europe, it could also be linked to the rate of alcohol consumption, and other substance abuse issues. As well as pollution, and illegal waste dumping, contaminating food.

Salento
21-08-17, 19:16
http://www.epicentro.iss.it/passi/rapporto2012/FumoPassivo.asp

The above link is in italian, so it will require translation. But it talks about regional differences with smoking, and smoking ban policies.

Veneto has the best enforcement of the smoking ban. No surprise they have a very high IQ.

I don't think smoking is the only issue. For other populations in Europe, it could also be linked to the rate alcohol consumption, and other substance abuse issues. As well as pollution, and illegal waste dumping, contaminating food.

Einstein smoked the pipe.
Exception to the Rules.

ihype02
21-08-17, 19:30
Bullshit ..

Jovialis
21-08-17, 19:40
What do you think is?

Edit:

A) Do you disagree with Richard Lynn's assessment of Albanian IQ (https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country/al-albania) being 90 on average?

B) Do you disagree with my posts about the non-genetic factors for lower IQs in Europe (i.e. smoking, pollution, alcohol, nutrition, etc.)?

*FYI I agree that there are difference in IQ. But like Maciamo stated, there are other reasons besides genetic.

ihype02
21-08-17, 20:14
I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to North and South IQ differences being genetic etc. I think it is mostly environmental.

Jovialis
21-08-17, 21:03
I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to North and South IQ differences being genetic etc. I think it is mostly environmental.

I agree with you. I believe it would most likely be attributed to environmental factors. As well as the other problems I noted. I believe if these issues were corrected, overtime, it would increase the IQ of the regions affected by these plights.

ΠΑΝΑΞ
21-08-17, 22:46
I think the issue is multifactorial as well the human inteligence is multidimensional,- in many ways and in wide perspective-, which subject -subdue-, with all the additional deformations as any natural phaenomena "humanly" percieved.


In short terms, but in wide and general meanings I would said that is that the issue is about
i) Good genes
ii) Good place
iii) Good time
iv) Good luck !!!
Well the discussion about what is "luck", is far an other issue pretty complexed as well with many variations and levels from human perceptive ignorance as simple and natural conjuctural coincidences...


I consider also that a good economy gives that "free time" to train and educate ourselves, but in a second realise that some of our greatest challenges in human history as many cultures as well are "childrens" of a certain crisis issue which urgently needs to solve. For example what intrigued the Hunters to became cultivators? or what kind of pressures motivate a "sheppard" to became a seafarer of prehistory?
Yes, maybe it is about economy and high -measurable- inteligence, but at the end of the day winner is the man that survives at any cost for some and at best price offers for others, The "story" of our timeline usually make its own decissisions -at the end-, to who not only is the smartest but also who is the happiest.

Jovialis
21-08-17, 23:17
I think the issue is multifactorial as well the human inteligence is multidimensional,- in many ways and in wide perspective-, which subject -subdue-, with all the additional deformations as any natural phaenomena "humanly" percieved.


In short terms, but in wide and general meanings I would said that is that the issue is about
i) Good genes
ii) Good place
iii) Good time
iv) Good luck !!!
Well the discussion about what is "luck", is far an other issue pretty complexed as well with many variations and levels from human perceptive ignorance as simple and natural conjuctural coincidences...


I consider also that a good economy gives that "free time" to train and educate ourselves, but in a second realise that some of our greatest challenges in human history as many cultures as well are "childrens" of a certain crisis issue which urgently needs to solve. For example what intrigued the Hunters to became cultivators? or what kind of pressures motivate a "sheppard" to became a seafarer of prehistory?
Yes, maybe it is about economy and high -measurable- inteligence, but at the end of the day winner is the man that survives at any cost for some and at best price offers for others, The "story" of our timeline usually make its own decissisions -at the end-, to who not only is the smartest but also who is the happiest.

Eloquently put!

Salento
22-08-17, 23:41
Never mind

blevins13
23-08-17, 03:27
IQ is not purely genetic. It depends on many other things such as :

- the mother's health and diet during pregnancy (obviously a mother who abuse of alcohol or do drugs or eat food with a high level of toxicity like tuna will damage the foetus' brain and lead to lower IQ)

- nutrition at least until reaching physical and mental maturity (the brain consumes a lot of energy and a good nutrition rich in omega-3, vitamins, minerals, etc. will improve neural development)

- the quality of education t least until 5 years old (intellectual stimulation from an early age is vital to the proper development of brain functions)


Statistically, poorer and less educated people have worse nutrition, are more prone to unhealthy habits and live in a less intellectually stimulating environment, which may be why IQ tends to correlate with the parents' social class and revenues, which in turn is reflected on the education, job opportunities, wealth and social class of their children.

Seems like a Vicious cycle....


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

Jovialis
24-08-17, 22:18
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborations_between_the_United_States_governmen t_and_Italian_Mafia




The Mafia’s influence in Sicily grew until the 1920s, when Prime Minister Benito Mussolini came to power and launched a brutal crackdown on mobsters, who he viewed as a threat to his Fascist regime. However, in the 1950s, the Mafia rose again when mob-backed construction companies dominated the post-World War II building boom in Sicily. Over the next few decades, the Sicilian Mafia flourished, expanding its criminal empire and becoming, by the 1970s, a major player in international narcotics trafficking.

http://www.history.com/topics/origins-of-the-mafia






Post-Fascist revivalIn 1943, nearly half a million Allied (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II) troops invaded Sicily. Crime soared in the upheaval and chaos. Many inmates escaped from their prisons, banditry returned and the black market thrived. During the first six months of Allied occupation, party politics in Sicily were banned.[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_mafia_during_the_Mussolini_regime#cite_no te-DickieCosaNostra243-22) Most institutions, with the exception of the police and carabinieri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabinieri) were destroyed, and the American occupiers had to build a new order from scratch.[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_mafia_during_the_Mussolini_regime#cite_no te-23)
By the beginning of the Second World War, the Mafia was restricted to a few isolated and scattered groups and could have been completely wiped out if the social problems of the island had been dealt with ... the Allied occupation and the subsequent slow restoration of democracy reinstated the Mafia with its full powers, put it once more on the way to becoming a political force, and returned to the "Onorata Societa" the weapons which Fascism had snatched from it.Michele Pantaleone[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_mafia_during_the_Mussolini_regime#cite_no te-24)


As Fascist mayors were deposed, the Allied Military Government of Occupied Territories (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_Military_Government_of_Occupied_Territories ) (AMGOT) simply appointed replacements. Many turned out to be former Mafia members, such as Calogero Vizzini (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calogero_Vizzini) and Giuseppe Genco Russo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Genco_Russo).[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_mafia_during_the_Mussolini_regime#cite_no te-servadio91-25)[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_mafia_during_the_Mussolini_regime#cite_no te-newark-26)They easily presented themselves as fascist dissidents[27] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_mafia_during_the_Mussolini_regime#cite_no te-DickieCosaNostra240-27) and their anti-communist positions strengthened their bids for political offices. Mafia bosses reformed their clans, absorbing some of the marauding bandits into their ranks.[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_mafia_during_the_Mussolini_regime#cite_no te-28)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_mafia_during_the_Mussolini_regime#cite_no te-servadio91-25



This is the problem with the Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mafia-toxic-waste-dumping-causes-higher-cancer-and-death-rates-in-naples-a6794236.html

An Italian parliament-mandated health survey has confirmed higher-than-normal incidents of death and cancer among residents in and around Naples, thanks to decades of toxic waste dumping by the local Camorra mob.

The report by the National Institute of Health said it was "critical" to address the rates of babies in the provinces of Naples and Caserta who are being hospitalized in the first year of life for "excessive" instances of tumors, especially brain tumors.

Jovialis
25-08-17, 20:27
Even segments of the USA suffer from similar plights that have detrimental effects on IQ.

The people of Flint, Michigan.


http://time.com/4441471/flint-water-lead-poisoning-costs/

Peter Muennig, a professor of public health at Columbia University, calculates that the elevated blood lead levels found in more than 8,000 Flint children since 2014 will lead to $395 million in social costs based on the likelihood of lower IQ levels for those exposed, leading to lost economic productivity, reliance on welfare and costs to the criminal justice system. Muennig estimates those losses will amount to 18,000 fewer healthy years for those exposed.


“It’s a huge cost even if it’s spread over a large group of people,” Muennig says.




Poor people in NYC


https://www.mailman.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/toxic-combination-air-pollution-and-poverty-lowers-child-iq

Children born to mothers experiencing economic hardship, who were also exposed during pregnancy to high levels of PAH (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons), scored significantly lower on IQ tests at age 7 compared with children born to mothers with greater economic security and less exposure to the pollutants. The findings by researchers at the Columbia Center for Children’s Environmental Health (CCCEH) at the Mailman School of Public Health appear in the journal Neurotoxicology and Teratology (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0892036215000380).
PAH are ubiquitous in the environment from emissions from motor vehicles, oil, and coal-burning for home heating and power generation, tobacco smoke, and other combustion sources. (More on PAH and ways to limit exposure can be found on the CCCEH website (http://ccceh.org/our-research/research-studies/air-pollution).)
The researchers followed 276 mother-child pairs, a subset of CCCEH’s ongoing urban birth cohort study in New York City, from pregnancy through early childhood. Mothers self-reported maternal material hardship during pregnancy and at multiple time points through early childhood. Material hardship is a measure used to assess an individual’s unmet basic needs with regard to food, clothing, and housing. The Columbia researchers, led by Frederica Perera (http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/our-faculty/profile?uni=fpp1), PhD, DrPH, director of CCCEH, previously reported that prenatal exposure to airborne PAH during gestation was associated with developmental delay at age 3, reduced verbal and full scale IQ at age 5, and symptoms of anxiety and depression at age 7.
At age 7 years, researchers used the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children to assess IQ. PAH-DNA adducts in cord blood provided an individual measure of prenatal exposure to the pollutants. The researchers observed that, among children whose mothers reported greater material hardship, the group with high levels of PAH-DNA cord adducts significantly scored lower on tests of full scale IQ, perceptual reasoning, and working memory compared to those children with lower levels of adducts. Statistically significant interactions were observed between both prenatal and recurrent material hardship and high levels of cord adducts on children’s working memory scores. The same significant relationships between adducts and IQ were not observed in the low material hardship group.
The findings add to other evidence that socioeconomic disadvantage can increase the adverse effects of toxic physical “stressors” like air pollutants. The present results suggest the need for a multifaceted approach to reduce PAH exposure and alleviate material hardship in order to protect the developing fetus and young child.
“The findings support policy interventions to reduce air pollution exposure in urban areas as well as programs to screen women early in pregnancy to identify those in need of psychological or material support,” says Dr. Perera, lead author of the paper.

Angela
27-08-17, 00:58
Gentlemen, imo the problem is that you are assuming that data produced by Richard Lynn is reliable. It's not, as has been pointed out over and over again. I don't have the time to do the search, but the studies done of his abysmal methodology are easily accessed. In my opinion, to really analyze IQ correctly you would need a battery of one on one tests lasting hours which rely as little as possible on learned information, focusing on things like digit recall, manipulation of shapes etc. Obviously, that is impractical, but you still have to make sure that the paper and pen or computer tests are the same exact tests administered in the same way.

Even then, researchers have to go in agenda free and applying at least a modicum of common sense. To give you an example of what I mean: one of the pieces of data which Lynn used is the supposed average IQ results from schoolchildren in the Milan public schools, which came out as around 103 or 104 (which would, btw, be at the very top of the European numbers. What he either didn't know or chose to ignore is that half of the schoolchildren in Milano are of southern Italian/Sicilian extraction. To carry out his scheme, what IQ would northern Italians have to have?

More generally, I do believe that it's impossible to get a real fix on "aptitude" using these kinds of tests. Too much of what is tested is still down to "learned" skills, so bad schools are going to affect the scores.

Nutrition is a separate and more involved issue in terms of Italy, so I'll address it in the next post.

Angela
27-08-17, 01:27
Cont'd. As I said, generally nutrition is very important in terms of IQ, not only the nutrition of the infant but the nutrition of the mother during the entire period of gestation. Modern Southern Italy and Sicily cannot be used for this kind of analysis. The condition of southern Italian and Sicilian farmers and laborers for hundreds of years, really from the 1200-1300s perhaps, can best be compared to modern day areas of Africa or perhaps India. It was none too good even into the post war period, and was abysmal during the war. None of the bounty that was produced was for them to consume. It was co-opted by confiscatory practices imposed by their overlords, many of whom were indeed of foreign extraction.

This was true to some extent in northern Italy as well, in the areas where large landholding estates were the norm, such as in the Po Valley, where malnutrition reigned, resulting in extraordinary levels of pellagra and tuberculosis. However, this was balanced by the numbers of people in other areas who either had their own small landholdings, or had decent tenant/farmer contracts with the landowners, or were already part of the artisan and middle classes. The appalling conditions paved the way for the strong agrarian reform movements and the later growth of the socialist and communist parties.

I agree with Sile as to the source of the problem. We're talking here about the systematic plunder of the land and the people of the south over hundreds and hundreds of years by foreign overlords and what can only be called collaborators. Everything of any value whatsoever was confiscated, and absolutely nothing was put back into the land or to introduce more crafts or, God forbid, industry. Every effort was made to keep the people illiterate so that "foreign" ideas would not "infect" them.

Whoever recently amended the article on Southern Italy for WIKI knows his stuff. I couldn't summarize it any better.

"Denis Mack Smith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Mack_Smith), British historian, describes the radical difference between the Northern and the newly annexed Southern Italy in 1860, for these two halves were on quite different levels of civilization, pointing out that the Bourbon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Bourbon) in the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_the_Two_Sicilies) were staunch supporters of a feudal system and that they had feared the traffic of ideas and had tried to keep their subjects insulated from the agricultural and industrial revolutions of northern Europe.[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy#cite_note-21)The above-mentioned study by Denis Mack Smith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Mack_Smith) is confirmed by the Italian historian and left wing politician Antonio Gramsci (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci) in his book "The Southern Question", by which the author emphasizes the "absolutely antithetical conditions" of Northern and Southern Italy at the time of the Italian Unification in 1861, when South and North united themselves again after more than one thousand years.
Gramsci remarks that, in the North of Italy, the historical period of the Communes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_city-states) had given special boost to history and in Northern Italy existed an economic organization similar to that of the other states of Europe, propitious to further development of capitalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism) and industry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry), whereas in Southern Italy history had been different and the fatherly Bourbon administrations produced nothing of value; the bourgeois class did not exist, agriculture was primitive and insufficient to satisfy the local market, there were no roads, no ports, the few waters that the region had were not exploited, due to its special geographical feature.[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy#cite_note-22)

"Life conditions of the people of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_the_Two_Sicilies) are illustrated also by Raffaele De Cesare,[23] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy#cite_note-23) who reports the lack of interest from the king of Naples Ferdinand II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_II_of_the_Two_Sicilies) to do useful works to change the neglected conditions of public hygiene, particularly in the provinces where scarsity of sewer systems and often water shortage were known issues. [24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy#cite_note-24)


"The problem of Brigandage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigandage) is explained in the book "Heroes and Brigands" by the southern Italian historian and politician Francesco Saverio Nitti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Saverio_Nitti) outlining that Brigandage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigandage) was endemic in Southern Italy, where for centuries monarchy based itself on Brigandage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigandage), that had become like a historical agent.[25] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy#cite_note-25) Unlike Southern Italy, Brigandage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigandage) was generally little in the other annexed states of northern and central Italy like: Kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Lombardy-Venetia), Duchy of Parma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Parma), Duchy of Modena (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Modena), Grand Duchy of Tuscany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Tuscany), Papal States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_States), because the situation of Southern Italy was very different, owing to the previous centuries of history.

According to the southern Italian historian Giustino Fortunato (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giustino_Fortunato),[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy#cite_note-26) and Italian institutional sources [27] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy#cite_note-27) the problems of Southern Italy existed before the Italian Unification, in this regard Giustino Fortunato (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giustino_Fortunato) underlines that the Bourbon were not the only ones responsible for southern problems, that had ancient and deep origins also in previous centuries of poverty and isolation, caused by foreign dominations and governments."

In literature the period of 1860 is described by the Sicilian writer Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Tomasi_di_Lampedusa) in his famous novel The Leopard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Leopard) (Il Gattopardo) set in Sicily (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicily) during the years of the Italian unification (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_unification), in a famous final scene prince Salina, when invited to join the senate of unified Italy, answers to an important Piedmontese officer " … the Sicilian will never want to change, because the Sicilian feels perfect …", by which and by other words the author underlines the problem for the Sicilians to change their old life style while remaining in their island. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy#Early_modern_history

I'm not saying that any of this would necessarily affect children born in the last 20 or 30 years in terms of nutrition, but it does explain the past, and cultural attitudes toward education, for example.

As far as I'm concerned the last rulers of Sicily, for example, to actually be good stewards of the land were the Moors, with the possible exception of the Normans and Frederick II. Certainly, once the Spanish Bourbons took control it was all over, which is why the fact that so many southern Italians are nostalgic for them boggles my mind.

Joey D
07-09-17, 15:00
Some choice quotes from the OP:

"A possible explanation for the northern regions having had higher IQs than the southern regions at least from 1880 and possibly from 1400 to 1600 is that the populations of the north and south are genetically different and these genetic differences are related to differences in intelligence. “

- I was genuinely surprised to hear that they were doing IQ tests back in 1400AD.

“They note also that the Sardinians are genetically more closely related to the Greeks, Lebanese and North African Berbers than to central and northern Europeans (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994, pp. 78, 274). “

- This doesn't sound right about the Sardinians. Perhaps the DNA tests were a bit lacking back in 1994??

davef
07-09-17, 16:10
"- I was genuinely surprised to hear that they were doing IQ tests back in 1400AD."
I know, common sense, right?
And I think Sardinians would be closer to Greeks (but not close in general and North Africans and Lebanese are mostly levant Neolithic? If that's close to EEF then maybe they'd be closer to them as well I guess) than north and central euros due to them being almost completely European farmer and more "southern." I don't think any group is more EEF than they are.

Jovialis
07-09-17, 16:37
https://i.imgur.com/Uc3Th5K.png

There's been a lot of research conducted since 1994.

Sardianian people don't cluster near those groups. They're related to the first European Farmers.

Joey D
08-09-17, 12:21
https://i.imgur.com/Uc3Th5K.png

There's been a lot of research conducted since 1994.

Sardianian people don't cluster near those groups. They're related to the first European Farmers.


I know, a dumb comment in an article talking about intelligence.

Joey D
11-09-17, 12:59
As history tells us, the conquerors get to write the one and only version of history. They become the more virtuous, the bravest, the most intelligent, and obviously the richer.

Despite the mythology which surrounds the Risorgimento, at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies was an independent country, the largest body politic in what we now call Italy, and even though we can speculate about how poorly it was ruled (and no Sicilian would dispute that), it suffered a foreign invasion and was conquered by yet another foreign power.

IN the case of Sicily, it was a double whammy because it had undergone 3 or 4 revolts following the forced union under the Bourbons, and rather than gain the independence it nearly gained in 1848 (with the most liberal constitution written to that point in what we now comprises Italy, making use of its own parliament which had existed since 1097), it fell under the rule of a foreign power ruled from a city much further away than Naples. It was never going to end well, and further revolts would ensue, one put down quite brutally in 1866.

And then this:

« Dal 1860 al 1870 l'esercito sabaudo dei "piemontesi" in Sicilia riuscirono a depredare e rubare TUTTO quello che c’era da prendere,svuotarono TUTTE le casse dei comuni Siciliani,rapinarono TUTTE le banche Siciliane con la scusa e la menzogna dell'unità d'italia,derubarono TUTTO il cibo dalle masserie di campagna lasciando morire di fame il popolo Siciliano,e poi i garibaldesi ingordi e ladri assassini indemoniati entrarono nelle case dei poveri contadini violentandone TUTTE le figlie e le mogli e rubando TUTTO quanto,poi ancora entrarono nelle comunità religiose rubando TUTTO quanto pure le elemosine per i poveri e poi ancora entrarono nei conventi delle suore di clausura e stuprarono TUTTE le giovani monache vergini;
i garibaldini prima e i sabaudi-piemontesi dopo saccheggiarono TUTTE le chiese TUTTI i conventi TUTTE le campagne e le case di TUTTI gli onesti cittadini Siciliani;
Gli assassini sabaudo-piemontesi insieme ai pirati garibaldesi nel 1860 da grandi ladri farabutti quali furono rubarono TUTTO quanto,opere d’arte,quadri,statue persino i chiodi appesi al muro e pure la verginità delle ragazze Siciliane e la vita ed il futuro all'intero popolo siciliano.»

I tell you what - it would have been pretty hard to recover from that reign of terror.

Supposedly, at the time of unification, the North was richer than the South, and it probably was, but guess where most of the gold bullion came from in the first decade of the new state?

As we know, to the victor go the spoils.

Joey D
11-09-17, 13:50
IL SACCHEGGIO DEL BANCO DI SICILIA, INIZIAMO A RISCRIVERE LA STORIA (http://www.qtsicilia.it/old/cultura/38-cultura-notizie/1068-il-saccheggio-del-banco-di-sicilia-iniziamo-a-riscrivere-la-storia.html)
http://www.qtsicilia.it/old/cultura/38-cultura-notizie/1068-il-saccheggio-del-banco-di-sicilia-iniziamo-a-riscrivere-la-storia.html

Hasn't anyone ever wondered about the absurdity of Garibaldi's mille taking over the largest state in Italy at the time? Hasn't anyone ever wondered how something so absurd could happen? This account goes some way to explaining it.
And incredibly, the historians make out that it was Sicily suffering from banditry at the time - but they didn't have this sort of banditry in mind!

I love this quote from the article, from the diary of one of the mille no less:

"Ci meravigliammo non credendo ai nostri occhi e alle nostre orecchie, da come si erano messe le cose, quando ci accorgemmo che il segnale di abbandonare la contesa non era lanciato dalla nostra tromba ma da quella borbonica.”


In other words, there was actually no battle. At the sight of the scary mille, tutti picciotti, most of them barely armed with anything, 3000 bourbon troops withdrew without firing a shot.

Salento
11-09-17, 19:15
IL SACCHEGGIO DEL BANCO DI SICILIA, INIZIAMO A RISCRIVERE LA STORIA (http://www.qtsicilia.it/old/cultura/38-cultura-notizie/1068-il-saccheggio-del-banco-di-sicilia-iniziamo-a-riscrivere-la-storia.html)
http://www.qtsicilia.it/old/cultura/38-cultura-notizie/1068-il-saccheggio-del-banco-di-sicilia-iniziamo-a-riscrivere-la-storia.html

Hasn't anyone ever wondered about the absurdity of Garibaldi's mille taking over the largest state in Italy at the time? Hasn't anyone ever wondered how something so absurd could happen? This account goes some way to explaining it.
And incredibly, the historians make out that it was Sicily suffering from banditry at the time - but they didn't have this sort of banditry in mind!

I love this quote from the article, from the diary of one of the mille no less:

"Ci meravigliammo non credendo ai nostri occhi e alle nostre orecchie, da come si erano messe le cose, quando ci accorgemmo che il segnale di abbandonare la contesa non era lanciato dalla nostra tromba ma da quella borbonica.”


In other words, there was actually no battle. At the sight of the scary mille, tutti picciotti, most of them barely armed with anything, 3000 bourbon troops withdrew without firing a shot.

Not at all!
Wars are collection of battles. One event, or account doesn't tell the entire story.
The Mille were there to fight. The Borboni executed a "Tactical Retreat".

Angela
11-09-17, 20:45
Let's keep to the topic, please, guys.

curiouscat
16-09-17, 14:05
There may be a correlation between inbreeding and IQ differences.

https://hbdchick.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/iq-and-inbreeding-in-italy-inbreeding-coefficients-and-iq-scores.jpg

Angela
16-09-17, 15:17
There may be a correlation between inbreeding and IQ differences.

https://hbdchick.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/iq-and-inbreeding-in-italy-inbreeding-coefficients-and-iq-scores.jpg

Who is that from? The usual discredited "scientist"? Keep ******** and I'll start posting the Spanish numbers, my Spanish friend.

Jovialis
16-09-17, 15:27
I'm suspect ihype02, curiouscat, and runofthemillsukrianian are all the same person evading ban.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34382-Canaanite-dna/page3?p=515948&viewfull=1#post515948
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34382-Canaanite-dna/page3?p=517287&viewfull=1#post517287
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34382-Canaanite-dna/page3?p=517623&viewfull=1#post517623

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34414-Genetic-Origins-of-Minoans-and-Mycenaeans/page24?p=517469&viewfull=1#post517469

ihype02
16-09-17, 15:51
Btw I do not know about the other two but for the last time I do NOT have an alternative account.

Jovialis
16-09-17, 16:18
Btw I do not know about the other two but for the last time I do NOT have an alternative account.

http://whatismyipaddress.com/change-ip

Taking the role of multiple internet personas, that even argue against one another, is a known ******** tactic. It's also a sign of schizophrenia. I find it odd that you cited curiouscat's post in the other thread. It's also odd that you all seem to have the same rotten disposition, and dumb beliefs about Italians, specifically southern Italians.

Infamous example of this tactic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Ryne_Goldberg#Online_activities

curiouscat
16-09-17, 16:31
Who is that from? The usual discredited "scientist"? Keep ******** and I'll start posting the Spanish numbers, my Spanish friend.

I don't have recent Spanish ancestry. I'm pretty much East-Central European with some Balkan and Western European admixture that may have some common with Spaniards and French that's why I used Celt-Iberian in my ethnicity tag.

davef
16-09-17, 16:33
There may be a correlation between inbreeding and IQ differences.

https://hbdchick.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/iq-and-inbreeding-in-italy-inbreeding-coefficients-and-iq-scores.jpg
Now that's just racist. Knock it off

Jovialis
16-09-17, 16:38
On top of that Richard Lynn doesn't account for the fact that there's southern Italians in those northern schools, as Angela said.

Jovialis
16-09-17, 16:53
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/race-iq-and-wealth/

Here's a good unbiased article on the topic of IQ and disparities.



Similar sharp differences occur in the case of Italian populations separated historically and geographically. Today, Italian-Americans are very close to the national white average in income and education, and the limited data we have seem to put their IQ close to this average as well. This would appear consistent with the IQ figures reported for Italy by Lynn and Vanhanen, which are based on large samples and come in at just above 100. However, there is a notoriously wide economic gap between northern Italy and the south, including Sicily. The overwhelming majority of Italian-Americans trace their ancestry to the latter, quite impoverished regions, and in 2010 Lynn reported new research indicating that the present-day IQ of Italians living in those areas was as low as 89, a figure that places them almost a full standard deviation below either their Northern Italian compatriots or their separated American cousins. Although Lynn attributed this large deficit in Southern Italian IQ to substantial North African or Near Eastern genetic admixture, poverty and cultural deprivation seem more likely explanations.

Italian-Americans are overwhelmingly Southern Italian.

Jovialis
16-09-17, 17:07
I don't have Spanish ancestry. I'm pretty much East-Central European with some Balkan and Western European admixture that may have some common with Spaniards and French.

Do you get your information from amateur blogs? Because the same ones say EASTERN Europeans like yourself are also very inbred. Which is probably a lie too anyway.


https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/how-inbred-are-europeans/

his map is a guestimate, and is not derived from direct measurements

:laughing: If this was on paper, it wouldn't even be worthy for a place on the floor for a dog to use.

ihype02
16-09-17, 17:15
http://whatismyipaddress.com/change-ip

Taking the role of multiple internet personas, that even argue against one another, is a known ******** tactic. It's also a sign of schizophrenia. I find it odd that you cited curiouscat's post in the other thread. It's also odd that you all seem to have the same rotten disposition, and dumb beliefs about Italians, specifically southern Italians.

Infamous example of this tactic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Ryne_Goldberg#Online_activities
Go ask Angela if I have an alternative account.
I don't really talk much about Italians or even dislike them. Italian is my favourite langauge.

Btw, your "evidence" and claims are not really
smart.

Jovialis
16-09-17, 17:29
Go ask Angela if I have an alternative account.
I don't really talk much about Italians or even dislike them. Italian is my favourite langauge.

Btw, your "evidence" and claims are not really
smart.

Yea, and you're a shining example of intelligence and integrity. :rolleyes2:

Btw, you can vote me down all you want for this. It doesn't even matter, or affect me, since your rep is in the toilet.

ihype02
16-09-17, 17:42
Again with your theories? As far as now, I see that you have zero downs in this theard I can screenshot in oder to prove it for you.

Jovialis
16-09-17, 17:44
Again with your theories? As far as now, I see that you have zero downs in this theard I can screenshot in oder to prove it for you.

I wasn't referring to this thread, but a reminder for the future.

Now let's get back on topic for this pathetic thread; conceived in ignorance. The only use for it, as far as I can see if proving Richard Lynn's racial theory wrong. Which it already has been by other academics, due to his sloppy/intentionally-sloppy research. Perhaps also refuting all the other idiotic claims and aspersions others may have in regards to trying to prove his racial theory right.

EDIT:

Getting back OT.

I already made my points on the previous page, Southern Italians in the USA do just about as good economically, and score about the same as other European-Americans. Some of the best counties in the entire country are a majority Italian-American (Southern Italian).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Per_capita_income_by_county.png

Per-capita income map

https://i.imgur.com/Xp6SZyS.png

Ethnic majority map

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.svg

https://i.imgur.com/bT5fazo.png

Like I said previously, the clannish mentality of the Southern Italians is a great fit for the American system. Because we do well for ourselves, and family, and don't give a damn about anyone else. Same for the Irish and the Scottish who also have a clannish mentality.

Just look at the areas covered by Italians and Irish. These areas are the driving economic centers of the country. Perhaps Southern Italians aren't doing as well in Italy. But they're doing well, in a more powerful, and competitive country that doesn't have arbitrary social restrictions and allows for upward mobility. There's other groups that have been here for 100s of years, that don't even come close.

Salento
16-09-17, 18:21
Only my Mother is allowed to question my Intelligence (or lack of it). [emoji849][emoji848][emoji2]

Sile
16-09-17, 19:09
Differences in IQ cannot be done regionally, it is based individually and is not related on where you live, but how you are taught

Syd
16-09-17, 21:32
Only my Mother is allowed to question my Intelligence (or lack of it). [emoji849][emoji848][emoji2]

Mammone! (Mama's boy) :)

Angela
16-09-17, 21:38
Mammone! (Mama's boy) :)

And what's wrong with that, pray tell??? :angry:

Your mother is the only one who is always going to be on your side, no matter what, especially nowadays when spouses are disposed of like tissue paper.

Salento, if she ever tells you you're not using your best judgment, or highest cognitive functioning, shall we say, no matter how un-diplomatically, listen to her!:grin:

Syd
16-09-17, 22:21
And what's wrong with that, pray tell??? :angry:

Your mother is the only one who is always going to be on your side, no matter what, especially nowadays when spouses are disposed of like tissue paper.

Salento, if she ever tells you you're not using your best judgment, or highest cognitive functioning, shall we say, no matter how un-diplomatically, listen to her!:grin:

Ain't Nothing Wrong.
I got to admit, I am too. :)

Syd
16-09-17, 22:22
Sorry for the OT

Jovialis
16-09-17, 22:27
Ain't Nothing Wrong.
I got to admit, I am too. :)

Likewise, Italian culture seems to be de facto matriarchal. Even my dad said you should always love your mother more.

Syd
16-09-17, 23:07
Likewise, Italian culture seems to be de facto matriarchal. Even my dad said you should always love your mother more.

Yes, de facto mums are those who "wear the pants" at home.

Angela
16-09-17, 23:07
Likewise, Italian culture seems to be de facto matriarchal. Even my dad said you should always love your mother more.

And mine. :) The only thing he absolutely would not tolerate was disrespect to her, in particular, even more than to him. It goes the other way as well.

Once, after more than the necessary amount of alcohol, we and a bunch of people at a party began to play a parlor game on the order of, who would you save first if they were drowning. My husband immediately said, me first, this is so easy: first her children, then her mother, then it's a toss up between her father and me, but I think it would be her father first. He had accepted the order long ago, probably because he was Italian too. There was none of that nonsense I see here where fathers can be jealous of the priority given to children.

Yes, this is off-topic, but this is such a terrible thread that there's a lot of temptation to discuss something more sane. Let's all control ourselves from here on in. :)

halfalp
19-09-17, 02:49
That's a fals perspective because people has a tendency to put all misery of the world to the difference of social status and specifically money. But money is juste one of those points. Because if richs are on average with an highest IQ, it doesn't mean that if everybody had the same income that everybody would be intelligent, it would be worst because if people grow with the idea that we are all the same, when low IQ gonna figure it out individually that they are not the same has high IQ, but without a contre-exemple like for exemple know third world, the world would become way more unfair and elitic than know. The real link is, that rich intelligent people can go to school because of there money, but intelligent poor people either cant because of money, or because difficult life give them another road in life. In fact, we could say that money, helps people to get what they want, but not that if every human has the same culture and social status, they would be same, actually when that gonna happend because of internationalist, religious or social-democrat people, racial segregation gonna be in a paroxysme, because if culture cant explain difference only nature can. So people should calm the **** down with their humanisme or is gonna for sure, people, for sure become a pervers effect.

ihype02
01-10-17, 20:56
http://www.spring.org.uk/2017/05/the-biggest-myth-about-iq.php

IQ increase for 20 points in 4 years.

davef
13-10-17, 10:11
And what's wrong with that, pray tell??? :angry:
Your mother is the only one who is always going to be on your side, no matter what, especially nowadays when spouses are disposed of like tissue paper.
Salento, if she ever tells you you're not using your best judgment, or highest cognitive functioning, shall we say, no matter how un-diplomatically, listen to her!:grin:
I'm a mama's boy

IronSide
04-01-18, 22:05
All west Eurasians are similar enough genetically to the point that we can conclude that any collective difference in behaviour is not due in large part to a difference in genetics, but in culture and other factors.


by the Bronze Age, genetic differentiation
between pairs of West Eurasian populations had reached its present-day low levels:
today, FST is ≤0.025 for 95% of the pairs of West Eurasian populations and ≤0.046 for all
pairs. These results point to a demographic process that established high differentiation
across West Eurasia and then reduced this differentiation over time.

That's specially true between any pair of European populations, its ridiculous to claim that genetics are the cause for a north-south difference in Italy, they're all the same, descended from the same set of populations.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/07/indo1.png

I'm open to the idea that differences in traits and behaviour across human populations can be in some part genetic, but how much is this genetic distance between Europeans ? between north and south Italians ?

Ygorcs
05-01-18, 03:21
What a surprise that people with less education, less social and professional incentives to become qualified and less access to cultural/scientific gains have both smaller IQ and smaller income. These kinds of studies and "findings" are always confusing correlation with causation...