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Carlitos
05-09-10, 17:34
Source E1b1b1a3 V22 + haplogroup in Europe.

According to my latest information on haplogroup 31b1b1a3 V22 + is that it is a mutation that occurs in a man from northern Syria to spread after the Lebanese coast and for the people of Canaan, called Phoenicians by the Greeks.

So my question is how come this haplogroup in Europe and Spain, maybe as individuals of the Jewish faith? as Lebanon was conquered by ancient Semites.

Thanks

Aristander
05-09-10, 23:57
It might be that it came from Phoenician colonists that settled in Spain.
The Yellow boxes mark Phoenician colonies.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/AntikeGriechen1.jpg/800px-AntikeGriechen1.jpg

Here is a link to a larger picture.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/AntikeGriechen1.jpg

Carlitos
06-09-10, 02:26
^^

It's a possibility, but I guess that must be other possibilities, because in my particular case I have genetic neighbors in many countries of Europe: Russian Federation, Hungary, Germany, England, etc. so I think that perhaps in my case my DNA Y it came as a Jew, though relamente was a Canaanite, what a mess!

Maciamo
06-09-10, 07:39
I also think that V22 is more likely to have been spread around the Mediterranean by the Phoenicians. The Jews might have contributed too, but the overall distribution pattern looks more Phoenician.

That doesn't mean that V22 originated with the Phoenicians. It predates civilizations and might well have come from North-East Africa to the Levant, then dispersed from there through the various historical Levantine peoples.

Wilhelm
06-09-10, 10:10
V22 in Spain is found at 0.28 % according to this :

http://iberianroots.com/statistics/iberian_peninsula.html

Carlitos
13-09-10, 01:09
Thanks for the replies. The V22 may be the mutation or Ethiopian M35somalíes that colonize the Middle East since the last reference I have is that the V22 mutation occurs in northern Syria 10,000 years ago..

Carlitos
20-03-11, 03:37
The E1b1b1a3 (V22) Canaanid Hamitid Meditids, were in Coastal Canaan for atleast 10,000yrs before Semitids, the strong evidence is the presence of E1b1b1a2 (V13) Blakanid Hamitid Meditids in Europe, thos crossed the Levant & shared a Hamitid ancestry with E1b1b1a3 (V22) J1 distribution is mainly downstream & still not very dominant in coastal Canaan despite the 4000 years of occupation.

My God, I'm terribly old.

Carlitos
20-03-11, 04:10
http://www.thegeneticatlas.com/E1b1b1a.png

E1b1b1a (M78)Time of origin
~ 15,000 years BP
Place of origin
Northeast Africa
Ancestor
E1b1b1 (M35 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/../../E1b1b1_Y-DNA.htm))
Descendants
E1b1b1a1 (V12)
E1b1b1a2 (V13)
E1b1b1a3 (V22)
E1b1b1a4 (V65)


Highest Frequencies
Region
Frequency
Somalia
+ 75%
Darfur (Sudan)
+ 55%
Horn of Africa
+ 45%
Albania
+ 35%
Northern Egypt
+ 35%
Southern Greece
+ 35%
Libya
+ 30%
Cyprus
+ 15%
Southern Italy
+ 15%
Levant
+ 10%

archaiocapilos
20-03-11, 22:51
haplogroup E1b1b is about 25% in mainland Greeks (ranging from 15-35%) not above 40% as your map shows. E-V22 is about 1% and E-M123 is about 2.5% while in Spain it is below 10% in the whole population but has some hotspots in southern Spain and near Vigo I think. In Spain there is more North African (E-V22 and E-M81) y-dna than Greece

archaiocapilos
20-03-11, 22:52
Haplogroup E1b1b in Greece is about 25% and is dominated by the

archaiocapilos
20-03-11, 22:54
E-V13 sub-clade which is of native Balkanic origin. E-V22 is 1% and E-M123 is 2.5% while E-M81 is non existent. In Spain there is less E1b1b but most of it is of North African origin (E-V22 and E-M81)

Carlitos
21-03-11, 00:54
I think the V22 in Spain is 0.28%, I think that is a mutation of Phoenician maritime expansion to the ends of the known world, I'm not sure since I have no data, but if the V22 of Spain was Maghreb would be something greater in proportion well as with the M81 within such low levels that are clear.

diogenes
28-07-12, 20:42
Hello! I'm new at this site.My haplogroup is E-V22 and I have to say I'm a bit confused by the posts I've read here!All the experts on the E-V22 subclade are pretty clear about its N.E African origin.It's close identification with E-V12 covers the greater part of the genetic picture of ancient Egypt(haplogroup T?) I dont see how this could be identified with the Phoenicians.(J2,R1B?)The Jewish timing of E3B is diasporic and could easily be associated with the primary Jewish community in Alexandria and numerous much smaller communities in the Byzantine world that eventually made their way to Europe during the Middle Ages.The Jewish timing on E-V22 is placed between the IX and XI centuries.(Ashkenazic markers)The presence of E-V22 in the Levant is due to Egyptian colonialism which has been reaffirmed by the archaeological discoveries that have been made there.

zanipolo
29-07-12, 01:35
Hello! I'm new at this site.My haplogroup is E-V22 and I have to say I'm a bit confused by the posts I've read here!All the experts on the E-V22 subclade are pretty clear about its N.E African origin.It's close identification with E-V12 covers the greater part of the genetic picture of ancient Egypt(haplogroup T?) I dont see how this could be identified with the Phoenicians.(J2,R1B?)The Jewish timing of E3B is diasporic and could easily be associated with the primary Jewish community in Alexandria and numerous much smaller communities in the Byzantine world that eventually made their way to Europe during the Middle Ages.The Jewish timing on E-V22 is placed between the IX and XI centuries.(Ashkenazic markers)The presence of E-V22 in the Levant is due to Egyptian colonialism which has been reaffirmed by the archaeological discoveries that have been made there.

I think E is the only modern HG out of Africa,

the Phoenicians , are primary J1 and J2 and they bought G, T, E, R, I, L and others around the med.

Carlos
31-10-12, 23:02
But then the V22 in Egypt would have a current of Nubian origin perhaps Sudan?

adamo
28-04-13, 08:51
No, E-V22 is more of a non-negroid north-African sub-branch of E-M78. It reaches higher frequencies in the Egyptian Sinai peninsula. Due to Egypt being on the other side of the Mediterranean than Spain, probably a rare number of Phoenician or greek colonizers brought it to Iberia. Does not have a Sudanese origin.

Carlos
28-04-13, 16:28
No, E-V22 is more of a non-negroid north-African sub-branch of E-M78. It reaches higher frequencies in the Egyptian Sinai peninsula. Due to Egypt being on the other side of the Mediterranean than Spain, probably a rare number of Phoenician or greek colonizers brought it to Iberia. Does not have a Sudanese origin.

According iGENEA the Iberian peninsula would XI century onwards.

Carlos
28-04-13, 20:24
http://dienekes.blogspot.co.il/2007/03/cruciani-et-al-on-y-haplogroups-e-m78.html




The first important conclusion of this paper is that haplogroup E-M78 originated in northeastern Africa and its presence in eastern Africa and Eurasia is the result of diffusion from that region.
Second, the phylogeny of E-M78 has been refined further since the most recent paper (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/07/new-paper-on-haplogroup-e-m78.html) by Cruciani.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/RffoD_4dJfI/AAAAAAAAACk/14rEtcqebO4/s200/Em78.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/RffoD_4dJfI/AAAAAAAAACk/14rEtcqebO4/s1600-h/Em78.jpg)
Haplogroup E-M78 arrived in Europe by two routes: through the Middle East and directly from North Africa. According to the authors "Several lines of evidence suggest that E-M78 sub-haplogroups E-V12, E-V22 and E-V65 have been involved in trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from Africa. These haplogroups are common in northern Africa, where they likely originated, and are observed almost exclusively in Mediterranean Europe, as opposed to central and eastern Europe (table 1, fig. 2). Also, among the Mediterranean populations, they are more common in Iberia and south-central Europe than in the Balkans, the natural entry-point for chromosomes coming from the Levant. Such findings are hardly compatible with a south-eastern entry of E-V12, E-V22 and E-V65 haplogroups into Europe."
According to the authors: "Considering both these E-M78 sub-haplogroups (present study) and the E-M81 haplogroup (Cruciani et al. 2004), the contribution of northern African lineages to the entire male gene pool of Iberia (barring Pasiegos), continental Italy and Sicily can be estimated as 5.6%, 3.6%, and 6.6%, respectively." The occurrence of E-V12, E-V22 and E-V65 in the Greek samples of the study are 1.36% (Continental Greeks), 0.93% (Greeks from Crete), 1.41% (Greeks from Aegean Islands)
By contrast to the above sub-haplogroups, E-V13 came to Europe from Western Asia and diffused from the Balkans into Europe: "As to a western Asia-Europe connection, our data suggest that western Asians carrying E-V13 may have reached the Balkans anytime after 17.0 ky ago, but expanded into Europe not earlier than 5.3 ky ago." This sub-haplogroup makes the majority of European E-M78 (and indeed all E) Y chromosomes.
Haplogroup J2 is divided into two main clades J-M410 and J-M12. The latter sub-haplogroup shows the same signal of expansion as E-V13 in Europe: "Thus, the congruence between frequency distributions, shape of the networks, pair-wise haplotypic differences and coalescent estimates point to a single evolutionary event at the basis of the distribution of haplogroups E-V13 and J-M12 within Europe, a finding never appreciated before."
The intrusion of E-V13 and J-M12 into northern Europe from the Balkans occurred at the time of the Balkan Bronze Age: "Our estimated coalescence age of about 4.5 ky for haplogroups E-V13 and J-M12 in Europe (and their C.I.s) would also exclude a demographic expansion associated with the introduction of agriculture from Anatolia and would place this event at the beginning of the Balkan Bronze Age, a period that saw strong demographic changes as clearly testified from archeological records (Childe, 1957; Piggott, 1965; Kristiansen, 1998). The arrangement of E-V13 (fig. 2D) and J-M12 (not shown) frequency surfaces appears to fit the expectations for a range expansion in an already populated territory (Klopfstein, Currat and Excoffier 2006). Moreover, similarly to the results reported by Peričić et al. (2005) for E-M78 network α, the dispersion of E-V13 and J-M12 haplogroups seems to have mainly followed the river waterways connecting the southern Balkans to north-central Europe, a route that had already hastened by a factor 4-6 the spread of the Neolithic to the rest of the continent (Tringham, 2000; Davison et al. 2006)." The frequency map of E-V13 shows the traces of this expansion:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/Rffvif4dJgI/AAAAAAAAACs/q2hRSALGTZE/s320/ev13.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/Rffvif4dJgI/AAAAAAAAACs/q2hRSALGTZE/s1600-h/ev13.jpg)
The discovery of the young age of the E-V13/J-M12 pair in Europe, its diffusion into the greater part of Europe from the southern Balkans after the Neolithic are, in my opinion, an excellent candidate for the dispersal of IE languages into Europe. I don't reject, however, the possibility that the earlier farming dispersals may have also played a part in this process. Certainly, the uncertainties in the time estimates make the E-V13/J-M12 spread in Europe compatible with D'iakonov (http://www.angeltowns.net/membercenter/100/dienekes/articles/ieorigins/)'s earlier Balkan IE homeland argument. This was probably a secondary center of diffusion.

Molecular Biology and Evolution (advance access)

Tracing Past Human Male Movements in Northern/Eastern Africa and Western Eurasia: New Clues from Y-chromosomal Haplogroups E-M78 and J-M12

Fulvio Cruciani et al.

Detailed population data were obtained on the distribution of novel biallelic markers that finely dissect the human Y chromosomal haplogroup E-M78. Among 6501 Y chromosomes sampled in 81 human populations worldwide, we found 517 E-M78 chromosomes and assigned them to ten sub-haplogroups. Eleven microsatellite loci were used to further evaluate sub-haplogroup internal diversification.

The geographic and quantitative analysis of haplogroup and microsatellite diversity is strongly suggestive of a north-eastern African origin of E-M78, with a corridor for bidirectional migrations between north-eastern and eastern Africa (at least two episodes between 23.9-17.3 ky and 18.0-5.9 ky ago), trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from northern Africa to Europe (mainly in the last 13.0 ky) and flow from north-eastern Africa to western Asia between 20.0 and 6.8 ky ago.

A single clade within E-M78 (E-V13) highlights a range expansion in the Bronze Age of south-eastern Europe, which is also detected by haplogroup J-M12. The phylogeography, pattern of molecular radiation and coalescence estimates for both haplogroups are similar and reveal that the genetic landscape of this region is, to a large extent, the consequence of a recent population growth in situ rather than the result of a mere flow of western Asian migrants in the early Neolithic.

Our results not only provide a refinement of previous evolutionary hypotheses, but also well defined time frames for past human movements both in northern/eastern Africa and western Eurasia.

Nobody1
28-04-13, 20:42
Haplogroup E-M78 arrived in Europe by two routes: through the Middle East and directly from North Africa. According to the authors "Several lines of evidence suggest that E-M78 sub-haplogroups E-V12, E-V22 and E-V65 have been involved in trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from Africa. These haplogroups are common in northern Africa, where they likely originated, and are observed almost exclusively in Mediterranean Europe, as opposed to central and eastern Europe (table 1, fig. 2). Also, among the Mediterranean populations, they are more

Correct

Cruciani et al 2007 (your quoted text; just fully highlighted)

Haplogroup E-M78 arrived in Europe by two routes: through the Middle East and directly from North Africa. According to the authors "Several lines of evidence suggest that E-M78 sub-haplogroups E-V12, E-V22 and E-V65 have been involved in trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from Africa. These haplogroups are common in northern Africa, where they likely originated, and are observed almost exclusively in Mediterranean Europe,

Thats exactly what Adamo meant in his previous post!

Cruciani et al 2007 - study
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/6/1300.full.pdf+html

Carlos
28-04-13, 22:04
Correct

Cruciani et al 2007 (your quoted text; just fully highlighted)

Haplogroup E-M78 arrived in Europe by two routes: through the Middle East and directly from North Africa. According to the authors "Several lines of evidence suggest that E-M78 sub-haplogroups E-V12, E-V22 and E-V65 have been involved in trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from Africa. These haplogroups are common in northern Africa, where they likely originated, and are observed almost exclusively in Mediterranean Europe,

Thats exactly what Adamo meant in his previous post!

Cruciani et al 2007 - study
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/6/1300.full.pdf+html

V22 + Obviously not from India.


According iGENEA in my case would be in the Iberian peninsula X or XI century that I coincides with the Jewish calendar more than any other trans-Mediterranean migration oldest.

Nobody1
28-04-13, 23:39
V22 + Obviously not from India. According iGENEA in my case would be in the Iberian peninsula X or XI century that I coincides with the Jewish calendar more than any other trans-Mediterranean migration oldest.

Well as i said before i agree with you.
Im however not really sure what you are trying to tell me with your last post and the Jewish calender?

There are 2 Hg E haplogroups in Europe: E-M78 [E-V12 / E-V13 / E-V22 / E-V32 / E-V65] and E-M81

And acc. to Cruciani et al (2007); [the source you quoted] the sub-clades [E-V12 / E-V13 / E-V22 / E-V32 / E-V65] of E-M78 are defined as followed:

E-V12 / E-V22 / E-V65 originated in North Africa and migrated direct to Europe [first route].

Several lines of evidence suggest that E-M78 sub-haplogroups E-V12, E-V22 and E-V65 have been involved in trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from Africa. These haplogroups are common in northern Africa, where they likely originated, - Cruciani et al 2007

E-V13 prob. came via the Middle East [second route] and is most dominant (entire world) in Balkans and some extant South Italy 8.51% & Sicily 7.19%

As to a western Asia-Europe connection, our data suggest that western Asians carrying E-V13 may have reached the Balkans anytime after 17.0 ky ago, but expanded into Europe not earlier than 5.3 ky ago. - Cruciani et al 2007

E-V32 is absent (0%) in all Europe
-----

E-M81 is most dominant in North Africa and considered a Berber marker (Cruciani et al 2004) and is only
present in Southern Europe:
Portugal - 8.1% [99 samples] (Cruciani et al 2004)
France - 3.5% [85 samples] (Cruciani et al 2004)
Spain:
Asturia - 2.2% [90 samples] (Cruciani et al 2004)
South Spain - 1.6% [62 samples] (Cruciani et al 2004)
Andalusia - 5.3% [76 samples] (Semino et al 2004)
Pasiegos (Cantabria) - 41.1% [56 samples] (Cruciani et al 2004)
Italy:
N. Italy - 1.5% [67 samples] (Cruciani et al 2004)
Cen. Italy - 2.2% [89 samples] (Cruciani et al 2004)
S. Italy - 0.0% [87 samples] (Cruciani et al 2004)
Apulia - 0.0% [86 samples] (Semino et al 2004)
Calabria - 1.3% [80 samples] (Semino et al 2004)
Sicily - 5.5% [55 samples] (Semino et al 2004)

Cruciani et al 2007
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/6/1300.full.pdf+html

Cruciani et al 2004
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181964/?tool=pmcentrez

Semino et al 2004
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181965/

Carlos
28-04-13, 23:59
Several lines of evidence suggest that E-M78 sub-haplogroups E-V12, E-V22 and E-V65 have been involved in trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from Africa. These haplogroups are common in northern Africa, where they likely originated, - Cruciani et al 2007

The trans-Mediterranean migrations I create confusion, whether it is individual migrations or serving any group or ethnic group of the moment.

adamo
29-04-13, 05:30
That's what I was trying to say, Carlos just posted an excellent study : )

Carlos
31-07-13, 16:40
Thank you, thank you all I am available

Greetings dear friends

Sile
09-08-13, 10:15
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/20/iy9d.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/iy9d.png/)



russian genetics site on what they say is how and when E entered Europe

Looks like a Maciamo map!

Noman
23-08-13, 21:41
Several lines of evidence suggest that E-M78 sub-haplogroups E-V12, E-V22 and E-V65 have been involved in trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from Africa. These haplogroups are common in northern Africa, where they likely originated, - Cruciani et al 2007

The trans-Mediterranean migrations I create confusion, whether it is individual migrations or serving any group or ethnic group of the moment.

Yup, these are the neolithic farmers. They are not jews per though a little related to some living jews, but african/levant people that spread out quite early.

The earliest confirmed farmers, natufians have a few finds of E dna.

John Trish
06-03-18, 18:51
Please excuse my ignorance on this subject, still learning, but isn't E-V22 associated with E1b1b1a1c?

Carlos
16-03-18, 13:14
Natufians came to Europe for that reason V22 appears in central Europe and even northern Europe?